England waste no time against China, GK Barry, and a New Zealand listener seeks advice

0:28Welcome to Upfront, I'm Chloe Morgan. longer in the competition at all and finally we look ahead to the return of WSL football and the resumption of the title race plus a big big listener question all the way from New Zealand I was gonna do the accent then but I can't you can't do no it's gonna sound like more as like yeah you just gotta clip the vowels yeah go on then I'm not great at New Zealand accent either I'm afraid really because you've got Australian and then it's not Australian and then it's just you know things which more clipped like if you say someone's name like bin or bin like that kind of that's a bit new zealand vibe but i'm not great at it i'd need more time right before we get started a reminder that we have a very very special competition open to all up front listeners right now we are giving away a framed england shirt signed by lucy bronze that's right an england shirt with lucy bronze's actual signature in real life it could be yours all you have to do is click the link in the show notes and complete our short survey it's a really simple questionnaire about your listening habits and it will take you no time at all to complete it once you've submitted you'll be automatically entered into the prize pot so go ahead click the link in the show notes and put your name in the hat right mate it's been it's been a lovely little weekend just focusing on like a couple of games really uh the biggest one obviously being at Wembo but before we get aptly stuck into what went down on Wembley Way in that kind of goal spectacular on Saturday night what was your moment of the weekend?

1:56The moment of the weekend for me happened at Wembley and that was seeing Fran Kirby get her flowers which was very nice literally figuratively and literally there was a lovely little video montage played on the screens as well which would bring a tear to anybody's eye and so that was really nice to see and great to see her come out and get the applause and get her shirt and everything else. And she also brought out the Euros trophy for all to not see because it was done in the dark. So that was also nice pretty much. But yeah, it was lovely to see her get her moment because she's left a big mark and a big hole in that England team.

2:31It is massive. Like the legacy that she's left, like it just, when they were doing the montage, it was, like you said, quite emotional to kind of like see what she'd done. Like, you know, she's a legend, but I think like when you track back her career and all the clubs that she's been at and the accolades and achievements and trophies. Remember Reading, her breaking through. literally there's a goal she scored against Arsenal in I can't remember if it was the league or the league cup and she picked up the ball with her back to goal I'd say about like just inside Arsenal in the circle in the half right picked it up with the defender behind her literally just turned the defender like she wasn't there and ran the line to the pitch and scored and I remember thinking like she's going to be big you know she had the kind of the Bieber haircut remember yeah I remember that it's very like Ash Neville type vibes and then going to the 2015 World Cup being included in that squad and being labelled like the mini Messi and you know so it's yeah yeah great great career she's had um and it was a nice moment at Wembley.

3:21Love that well speaking about another person my moment of the weekend uh goes to kind of like a long-standing WSL legend um herself massive massive uh credit to Anna Morehouse making her international debut um obviously of the opportunity came across because um well I think obviously Hanny Hampton out injured uh Chiara Keating also picking up a niggle just before the game too but like you look at kind of the longevity of anna morehouse's career you know starting at everton she had spells at durham donny bells when that was kind of like you know donny bells being the big kind of stalwart in the wsl arsenal west ham um you know going across going across the country as well orlando pride and then england in 2024 so making that debut i just think is such a lovely moment and i was kind of gutted in a way that she wasn't called into action a little bit more she made two saves yeah like she wasn't you know she wasn't you wasn't setting out a deck chair.

4:11I feel like that's what you want. I think that's what you want on your debut. You're like, I'll make a couple of saves and just leave me alone for a while. I want to just enjoy it. As if you want to have on your record though, isn't it? Like a clean sheet is your debut. I think that's always a nice one. I also love the videos that come out afterwards when Serena's giving them their caps and it's always so nice. And they were all in their Christmas jumpers. Did you see? They had a festive evening and she's like, I'm so proud of you. It's like, it's just so cute. So that was also nice to see her actually get the physical cap.

4:38100%. and just a very mini moment of the weekend as well. Massive, massive shout outs to Serena Wigman's coat, which made a really special entrance into the pitch. Did you see it? Was there a lot of talk about it? A lot of talk about it. Yeah, it was. It was. If you haven't seen it, go and see it. It's like kind of like pink fluorescent. Pink? It's like a pinky, like salmon-y. Brown? Was it brown? Yeah. It sounds more like a pinky brown salmon. Someone described it as a shiny poo. And yeah, and it was made worse by the fact that You take that back. Not me. I didn't describe it as that. that the China manager I've lost her the China manager looked to be wearing like a matte coloured poo jacket and she was wearing a shiny one and my response to that comment was they always say you can not polish a turd but you can roll it in shiny that is the worst thing you've ever said in all the years that we've done this podcast that's actually like borderline blasphemous someone's just slammed a door I think they're coming in to tell me off for that bad joke anyway that's what someone said poo yeah I was closer to it than you I really don't think it was salmon I really liked it I thought it complimented her skin tones and her hair.

5:40I thought it was really lovely. Wear it next week. I'd like to see you come sheeny shiny walking through the dorm in that coat. You're actually such a wrong and I can't believe you said that. That's gross. It's nearly fucking Christmas as well. Grow up. What's that got to do with anything? Moving on. England 8-0 against China. Almost 75 ,000 people in attendance at Wembley see England's biggest win since their 10-0 defeat of Luxembourg in 2022 in the World Cup qualifiers after the Euros. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it felt like it was a really nice moment. Obviously, seeing everyone flood. I always love seeing people flood up to Wembley Way.

6:12Two hours plus before, and it's jammed. Well, you've got to get your seat in Box Park, haven't you? It's amazing, especially when you're at the top of the steps. Although I will say, if you're at the top of the steps, please don't stop. It's so annoying. Everyone just stops at the top of the steps, and you're like, oh, oh, God. No, but you're going to bump into them, and then they're going to go tumbling down it. That's like a cheeky little photo, though. Step to the side, just a wee bit. Just step to the side a wee bit. But that kind of, or that bridge, you know, the bridge in front. The view from there of just like that sea of people.

6:38It's amazing. It's lovely when you see it going in. When you're watching from the bridge going out and you're thinking, I've got to get over there in the distance, about five miles away. And it's wall-to-wall traffic. When you see those stop signs, you know, that they carry now. Oh, yeah. The lollipop ladies. Georgia Stanway has gone her first ever hat trick for the Lionesses. But kicked off by a very, very quick goal by Beth Mead. I mean, I don't want to run through every single goal because there isn't enough time in the day to do that. There was a difficult four minutes for China specifically.

7:09Wasn't there just? Yeah, started off by Beth Mead, a beautiful ball over the top. Kind of like, I mean, taking that ball down in the deafness of the touch and then being able to like, just, it was like almost like a toe poke past the keeper. Absolutely brilliant. You could see how much it meant to her. Fans going absolutely crazy. It felt like England were kind of finding quite a lot of luck and positivity on the wings. It felt like a lot of their chances were coming wide. Coming wide. Yes. I think they took a few minutes to adapt to the fact that I think China were playing a back three or back five, if you like.

7:37But once they worked that out, they realized how much space they had on the wings. And when you've got Lauren Hemp back, you know, and Beth Mead on the right, they're really stretching that back line. So I think what was great about this game is that in previous windows, the complaints have been that England have not been taking their chances against teams, you know, ranked further down that you would expect them to be scoring more against. they've struggled to convert. And I think the fact that they got eight goals from nine shots on target is a big takeaway for them because that just starts to become a bit of a thing when you're not converting.

8:09I mean, just look at the likes of Arsenal. Like you start to just think, oh God, am I ever going to get a bloody goal? And that can just kind of carry on. And when you're going into, you know, World Cup qualifiers next year, difficult teams in your group, you're not going to be getting as many chances. You want to be clinical. So that's, I think, a really big takeaway from this game. I mean, they definitely were. I mean so you've got the 11th minute you've got the 13th minute you've got the 15th minute and it just felt like there was this wave after wave of attack and there was a relentlessness I think to England that they didn't sit on their laurels it wasn't a case of you know we've come to tune up we can kind of rest a little bit let's go a little bit easy recoup and then go again it was like bang bang bang bang and I absolutely loved it I mean the crowd were absolutely delighted um yeah but I mean Stanway really showing up for this game like massive massive moments for her and different types of goals as well like you know you've got your penalty you've got the long range effort as well like a real nice array of goals for a hat trick and you know a couple of players I thought Beth Mead was going to get a hat trick but then she came off at halftime and I was expecting her to stay on until she got that third goal and so what it was nice to see another hat trick for another player because they're they're rare enough at Wembley aren't they yeah 100 % it was such like an iconic moment for her Ella Toon I thought had an amazing game Lauren Hem it kind of felt like because there were so many injuries I think in my mind because they're sort of brought in a couple of the newbies like we've seen like a couple of the new faces in the England squad I thought is this going to be an opportunity for Serena Rieguin to kind of put out and like get those kind of first caps but it kind of felt like a bit of a throwback you know you've got your bronze you've got your you know Walsh your Stanways your Mead, Toon, Hem, Russo it kind of felt like like the old guard but like not the old guard like yeah I think a little bit of that I think some people have this idea that there's players in that team that are like super old and coming to the end of their careers and i did not say that at all not you just want to just want to know of course the likes of your your russo and your toon and your kelly's you know they're going to be at the prime the peak of their careers come 2027 so this idea that they they're like washed and shouldn't be playing it's just a bit um of a silly angle i think yeah we saw a nice you know blend of players coming through you saw different quite a different back line as well which i think may be the first time that back line is played together you've got leah williamson alex greenwood out injured and Jessica to be arrested that meant my letizia partnered with Esme Morgan at the centre-back big man said of the defensive pairing I think that went really really well they played together in the last camp too they can show where they are as individuals and also how they connect together I think it works super super well so yeah it was quite nice to kind of see that that match up and to be honest I don't think they put a foot wrong all game no um I do enjoy fans thinking that they had any influence on Vigman choosing my letizia pairing like I mean big yourselves up all you like but she's not looking at your tweets yeah i think she is actually tweets twitter instagram that's how she picks her team just you wait there's gonna be 11 new people starting the next game look she's down with the kids look at that jacket don't don't don't step in again um i have been kind of seeing a lot of discourse um online there's a kind of general sense that this was obviously given it was quite an easy win it was you know a comprehensive one for england and because of how China underperformed, I'd say, they kind of learned very little from this game.

11:20But you don't agree. I mean, there's a lot of kind of disrespectful narratives out there that, you know, China is so poor that, well, what was the point in England playing these games? They're not going to get anything from it. You know, it's just a bit of a waste of time. It didn't show us anything. It didn't kind of, you know, progress England. It was a bit kind of like a, you know, a training session. And that's such a disrespectful narrative to where China are at. they're Asia champions just about to gear up to another one they're ranked 16 in the world like this is not this is not a low ranked team who haven't achieved anything and don't bring anything to the table I think yes they had a poor performance you know we've seen England like you said kind of do the same thing on international friendlies where they've underperformed and you know teams have you know done things that you shouldn't expect from an England side you know with the talent that they have Magic Gold 3-0 down in quick succession at Wembley you don't have to imagine because England have done that yes exactly I like what you did there but yeah what's your what's your takes on it I just I think it's a bit of a lazy narrative I think this is why people call England fans arrogant sometimes because you know you should be looking at that and going wow like a lot of things went really well a lot of things that haven't gone well in previous games issues that England have struggled with as I touched on being clinical creating more clear cut opportunities multiple people scoring goals and China had a bad day at the office They are ranked 16th for a reason.

12:42You know, I think they were, I don't know whether they were overawed by the occasion, as we touched on. When that happens, when you have like a mad minute of like four minutes, if you like, and suddenly you're 3-0 down, your game plan has gone out the window. And you're now trying to firefight on a pitch against the European champions, which is a very difficult. I'm panicking that soon. A hundred percent. So I think there's a combination of things. I think England played really well. And you were allowed to say England played really well. and it's not just because China didn't play well. One of the reasons China didn't play well is because England played really well and there is a real reluctance to just appreciate when they do well.

13:17That I find really frustrating. Yeah, China, look, they're gearing up, as you said, for the Asia Cup. They are in a transitional period at the moment and what they're trying to do is challenge themselves against some of the best teams in the world. That is how you prepare yourself for a major tournament. It's not all about England, right? Yes, you're looking for friendlies. England want to play countries outside of Europe to prepare them for a World Cup. We've seen how well teams outside of Europe did at the last World Cup and the challenges that they posed. And, you know, there's different types of football all over the world.

13:48You need to be prepping yourself against these teams. For China, conversely, you know, they've played the USA. They're playing England. They're trying to challenge themselves. Bad day at the office, but they will have learned loads. So sometimes there is this kind of, I don't know, England focused head, understandably from fans, but you have to actually look at the fixture rather than just me, me, me. For England, I think the fact that they were clinical, really important coming out of that. There's players back in, Lauren Hemp's back in, you know, making sure those relationships are being knitted together again.

14:19When I touched on the ages of players, like I think sometimes people think there's going to be a whole rake of new starting 11 come 2027. There's not. a lot of these players as I said will be in their prime at that time and when new players come in new players don't come in to play with other new players and build up relationships with players that they're not going to be starting with they come in to try and build relationships with Georgia Stanway in midfield if you're Lucia Kendall or you know when Freya Godfrey does get minutes who she's going to be playing with behind her or you know I keep people Jones is going to be key who she's got in the wings with her so it's it's that kind of matching of current and new to get those relationships built.

14:58And as I touched on, it's a homecoming match. People wanted to see a lot of the Euros winners. There's that entertainment value to the fixture as well. So there's a lot of different things from this fixture. And this concept of like, we shouldn't be playing these lowly teams, it just smacks of arrogance. And it's just, yeah, a lazy narrative, as you said. I think it was an interesting time to be playing a team like this because there were so many injuries in the England squad. It kind of felt like Serena also had to kind of problem solve about what she would do in the lead up to it. We've seen so many tournaments where in the lead up to it in the last three months or so, big key players have been dropped out.

15:31Leah Williamson for the Women's World Cup, just as one of those. And I think it's quite nice to kind of like see how those different combinations of work, you know, how we can utilise those kind of more experienced players in the squad and, you know, how they step up as leaders. We saw Beth Mead do that on the pitch, but I realised what you said there about the sort of the global perspective on this and kind of how much it teaches you about, you know, teams with different styles of play, how they're going to problems up because it could have been that yes they they run rampant they were four nil up by half time but actually had china come out and adopted a different game plan like how the how the lionesses adopt to that so yeah it is a shame that it does feel like a missed opportunity because china didn't bring much to the table for that game but that that like you said it's just an off one but it'd be really nice obviously they've got ghana tonight they're gonna they're gonna face loads of different international uh countries because you kind of think well well so you should so you should kind of like see what these styles of plays are and you know see how you do kind of match up with with teams that you don't play that that regularly and and how far they've developed.

16:24I love they've never played Gana before. I love this as a team, which makes it really exciting as well. And I think as well, just going back to what you said there about the game plan and how China came up, you know, at halftime, Vigman wasn't going to go, oh, we're 5-0 up. I'm going to throw out the plan we had and just suddenly decide to bring on players that I hadn't prepped or told you're likely to make an appearance from halftime. And I think what's frustrated me a little bit is some of that narrative has come from media and ex-players in the media. And they, of all people, should know what a game plan is going to be like.

16:57And yes, you prep for different scenarios, but you're not going to suddenly at halftime go, I know I didn't tell you you were playing, but actually, fuck it, we're 5-0 up, I'll throw you on. Like, that's not going to happen. And I think having experience in holding on to a lead or, you know, all that kind of stuff are all moments that you need to experience before you go into a major tournament where you don't. I mean, I think back to Ireland being 4-1 up against Belgium and you think, cool, we've got this tie done. And then you end up finishing 4-2, going to Belgium, suddenly you're 2-0 down.

17:26Like suddenly this comfortable cushion is no longer that comfortable. So all of those things are like little bits of experience that just go in the bank for teams when they go into a major tournament and it's something you can pull on then when you find yourself in that situation. So sometimes the manager knows what they're doing. No. It's crazy, but... He's only won the Euros like 3 ,000 times. Trust the process. well talking of international football big big news the UK has launched a bid to host the 2035 Women's World Cup kind of geared up to be the largest single sporting event to ever be staged in the UK so that's England Northern Ireland Scotland and Wales submitted their bid last Friday I mean obviously we kind of had a heads up already that this is going to be happening everyone kind of knew about it quite a lot of months ago and then I was like we've done it and you were like oh yeah no I thought you'd already done it yeah it did feel a little bit like that I won't talk too much on it because obviously we don't know if there could be kind of new entrance to it and they haven't had the bid confirmed yet so we'll have to wait and see um i personally think it's just lovely to kind of have something that's 10 years time to kind of look forward to you've already had this like legacy of the last like five six years or so of great um great football and then to kind of have this kind of set plan really and i don't i'm going to touch wood here because like there's you know the worst thing would be like some kind of like really last minute bid from like a massive country and you didn't see it coming all of a sudden all those dreams and hopes are dashed but it's quite nice I think just to be able to plan in advance of like what the 10 year roadmap is for commitment yeah for for women's football like in the UK and yeah to have that commitment and to kind of I don't know create that future legacy I think because like sometimes you do get a bit scared it's all going so well like we've had so much success recently that actually we're kind of living in this bubble but it's quite nice then to have like some of this like the sunshine in the kind of like distance that we're all kind of like going yeah and you don't know where we're going to be at that point you can plateau as well sometimes on a journey when you know you've won two major tournaments you've won the euros back to back you you can a federation might plateau and think right like we're doing real well whatever we're doing is working we'll just carry on yeah um so yeah you're right to have that commitment and that bid and something to build towards for the next 10 years um is very very exciting i can't but i can't wrap my head around like what i'm gonna be doing in 10 years time how old will you be uh that is don't need to it's fine because you might have to retire i probably actually is there an age limit for the pod well you're not far off it either you're of like a few years behind me.

19:48So let's not get too excited. Look at me. I don't look a day over 28 and you know it. Coming up after this, the League Cup is going to look a little bit different next season.

20:11Ooh, Rach. The League Cup. There's a lot to say on it. There's been a lot of discourse around this for the past week or so. Why? We'll talk about it. The League Cup draw took place last week. Fixtures will be played just before Christmas on my birthday, the 19th, 20th and 21st of December. So we've got the Liverpool v Chelsea fixture, Crystal Palace v Arsenal, Manchester United v Tottenham Hotspur and West Ham United v Man City. Let's talk a little bit about the draw itself because we've kind of seen a couple of brand faux pas recently that have caught the media attention. The draw was conducted by Portsmouth midfielder Ella Rutherford and her influencer partner GK Barry on the WSL TikTok account last week.

20:54A lot has been said about the nature of this draw. I think you probably will have seen it if you're listening to this podcast. It was on TikTok Live and then it was gone. So I don't know how you saw it, but you didn't see it. It was a flash in the pan. But the savvy people, those TikTokers, have been putting clips of everything online. So I think there's probably loads of stuff out there. if you haven't seen it. GK Barrow has been accused of being unprofessional, making inappropriate jokes, putting a ball back once it had been drawn, admitting to not knowing how the draw worked, asking how good the teams were and what colours they played in.

21:26WSL Football have apologised to Spurs after GK... I love that that was the thing that they came out and apologised for, of all of the stuff. Sorry, Spurs. You've got to prioritise your apologies. Yeah, of course. After she pulled out Tottenham's name and she said, what do we think of Tottenham in reference to the Arsenal chant? What do we think of Tottenham shit what do we think of shit serena vikman's code oh no sorry say that again and we're gonna fall out you're gonna get yourself cancelled i'll tell you that for free i didn't like how the draw was conducted i think um what i would say from a positive perspective is that a lot of attention tell you what i wouldn't have got that much attention otherwise 100 like maybe it's all the plan awareness is key obviously you've got a new brand entering the space no one's calling the 100 it did feel like a really low budget production and i think it it warranted something more and obviously you know you want the host to be able to talk about that the teams involved in it you know how the matchups have been what they what the previous matchups were like you know how competitive the game is going to be like those are the kind of like kind of standard phrases that you want for from a league draw um i think what they try to do is obviously get in an influencer who's going to appeal to a different type of audience who's going to give a bit more kind of you know fun personality like light banter that kind of thing and then they have chosen an actual player so there is validity in the choices that they made i can understand that and you can brief people in and at the end of the day it's a well that's my question you would hope that they were briefed in didn't feel like i was briefed and obviously once the draw goes live you really have so little say about what happens you can only just like sit there and go or and that's pretty much all you can do once the feed starts to roll so i can understand that i think with these things like the intention is always good how it actually landed the execution was was was subpar and i it wasn't at the level that we need to expect from women's football productions um rachel look you're you're twiddling your thumbs i think very calm ready to to leap into this one um what was your take on the whole affair i think um i don't think either side can be completely absolved of you know responsibility for how it landed um i know some people are saying you know what you get with who you book and yes but there is an element of you know being briefed and if I'm doing something I probably want to know a little bit about it I wouldn't be comfortable doing something I didn't know anything about and then saying I didn't know anything about it I understand the desire to expand to a bigger audience but I do feel a lot of brands are putting all of their eggs in the Gen Z basket and all of their focus on Gen Z and Gen Z only forgetting about the current audience and everybody else that you can also bring into the sport so doing a draw only on tiktok back in my day back in my day we just did it on the radio you'd be sent the draw by caribbean that kind of thing no but doing it on tiktok like not a not everyone has tiktok be doing it live and then not having the option to watch it back like yes you might bring it to the i don't know how many people watched it but then that's it like where's the kind of after the situation people might want to watch a draw back people might be in i don't know work and not be able to watch it live.

24:34Like, don't you want to then draw in more people to be able to watch something back? So that in itself was a bit unusual. Maybe do it live and then I probably would have filmed it and then had the option to put it on your YouTube channel or wherever else you want to put on your socials. So that in itself was just a bit of a, we want to open up the audience, but we're actually going to do it where then it's really narrow and really small and very few people actually get to watch it. And then, yeah, just the whole, you know, the way the draw went, the fact that, I think actually what really drew it out into the media was the whole picking up the ball, seeming to drop the ball and pull the same ball back out again.

25:08I feel like if that hadn't have happened, it might not have gotten the generated so much media around it because then that called into question the validity of the actual draw. And that's where the whole professionalism side of thing kind of came into it. That aside from all of the various innuendos and very direct jokes that were made and stuff like that um that you know i feel like then that thing got brought into the whole thing because the actual draw bit of the draw was called into question so yeah look definitely lessons learned i will say maybe don't put all your eggs in one demographic basket and you can have fun without kind of you know damaging the actual i guess professionalization of something as important as a draw and you know some people are calling for it to be done again which is not what you want not what you want as a new brand coming in you don't want to be like people questioning the whole friggin draw um of all things to question so after kind of you know say the league cup final last year the pitch debacle and that was the big talking point sometimes you just want to land things well and if it's not super exciting and super funny but it's at least good and does what it says in the tin sometimes that's okay as well 100 i think um i rate they've tried something a little bit different by bringing in kind of a an influence is kind of bringing like this new audience like we've seen over the world cup we saw so many um the euro so we saw so many campaigns with it you know like chabadi g he did like something with the the red roses and people saying okay well he doesn't have like a natural link but actually like what he brings is that comedic value to you know opening out the audience in that way so i do i do get that but um yeah it was just one of those choose your moments right like i remember you know sky bringing some people on to do like during commentary of a game for the final kind of 10 minutes or something they had um like comedians on in the commentary and they're like i get wanted to bring in new people but there's some things like a commentary of a game while you're watching a game or a draw just don't get those bits wrong because they're they're quite important bits but like in and around that situation you can do fun stuff and have fun people in and have them on the panel or whatever it might be do the after post-match or whatever but it's like those bits you don't want to get wrong because that's when you start to lose some people a little bit and your potential brand i think the women's space is in this kind of like innovative phase where they're kind of trying to reinvent the wheel you know wsl football who are you know trying to kind of navigate this new landscape we still don't fully understand all the facets of fandom and you know the og fans who've been in you know following the game for 20 30 years and like these kind of the fact the current fans who've grown up but still love football like really into it go to the games every week and then these kind of new fans who kind of you know across multiple teams kind of not not too dissimilar to myself um you're not young though yeah but kind of like a link to football for a cultural moment like foot like but by you know fashion or music or whatever it is so i think there is this kind of okay we have to try new things i think that there should be a space for doing that and then appreciating once it's gone wrong you know apologizing putting your hands up but i think like you said that there are things that you just you don't need to play with they're they're fine um and i think it kind of moves away from the professionalization of the game like it is still a very professional game and it should be taken seriously at the right moments and while i agree and i'm all for innovation and trying new things sometimes it comes off as being thought of quickly a bit lazy and you know lacking in do people actually want assumptions and i think there's a lot of assumptions made about demographics um and i appreciate wanting to as you say try new things but the game is growing quickly and you're trying to keep up you don't have to rush things everything doesn't have to be cool and shiny right now like it is worth taking the time to understand your audience to talk to your audience to ask them what they want rather than assuming what they want um and there's plenty of you know audience out there to talk to and ways to talk to them so just that kind of research piece and look research in women's sport is severely lacking we know that so um i can i can somewhat understand definitely well it looks like the tournament itself is going to be revamped by removing any teams featuring in the champions league at the moment these teams get a buy through the group stage and play from the quarterfinals onwards um when we discuss the future of the league cup back in October several listeners said stop giving the Champions League slides a buy through the group stages it looks like things have gone one step further um it does still have to be approved by the FA so this isn't something that has been confirmed I personally there's two sides to this I welcome it from a player well-being perspective because I think we are still trying to manage the loads of the the top teams in the WSL who are playing these additional games these additional fixtures which do take a bit of a toll um I also advocate for kind of like expansion of the um the teams themselves to kind of create that additional depth to be able to get you through those multiple competitions that you go far in the other side to it is that obviously from a league cup perspective you're trying to build up this like proposition of the league cup being really important I think obviously people kind of place it like fourth place in terms of like the priorities but that's only going to stay where it is if you've taken out the teams who really cause the most excitement and that people want to see the most because the championship sides when they play these big WSL top sides that's kind of when you get that that real fusion of loads of fans going to the games loads of fans getting excited seeing these matchups that we otherwise wouldn't see but there's a real uniqueness to the league cup as a tournament but I feel like taking the best of the best out of it it detracts from the quality of the competition because you're not having that anymore for me it calls into question the integrity of the competition really a little bit because it just feels like again it's a kind of lazy quick fix to a problem okay you know you're trying to manage the loading as you say you're trying to manage that you've been giving teams a buy and the competition format needs to be looked at and improved and so the answer is to just take out the three like top teams who by definition will be the three best teams because they'll have finished in the top three positions of the league if you're a brand i'd be like hang on I'm sponsoring this competition and you're taking out the three biggest or best teams in the league which isn't brilliant and it also feels a bit like you're trying to manufacture someone else to win it you know and then it's always is that quite nice though that we will see a different we will but they'll be like well we won it but only because that's what people will always say I think maybe for the first couple of years but then after that it will just become the competition that has these teams in it I just think it calls into question the competition because how can it be a league cup with a quarter of the league missing how do you navigate the teams then that have to to say for example a team in the the women's champions league that goes to the final that's eight additional games and these are like these aren't just eight like you know run around games these are eight absolutely huge games against absolutely huge competition that involves flying to various different countries across europe that obviously impacts the schedule you've got you know 48 hour turnaround times like how do you navigate that then with a competition like the league the league cup well we had a whole episode where we discussed the various formats that you could do and you know there's also the option that we didn't really touch on which is what the uefa are doing at the moment which is the kind of swiss model where you're playing kind of six different teams or wherever it might be many different teams rather than having it in a league setup for example um you've also got like if you're a team getting to the final of the champions league like a chelsea or an arsenal you've got a deep squad and you know i know these teams want to win everything but also you could be giving you've got academies you could be giving younger players opportunities in these games so i just i think there are other ways to look at it rather than just immediately pulling out the top teams and then you know I've I've touched on it I think I said in the that episode as well something Soph has always spoken about is a second competition after the winter break off the back of the league cup like a plate for teams who then drop out and then you've got teams who are probably under loading having the option to fight for a piece of silverware as well so I just feel like it's a it's a sticking plaster as opposed to you know thinking about how the competition could be better run for everyone because it's not really a League Cup if the whole league isn't involved in some way, shape or form.

33:05Well, it looks like it's probably going to go ahead. Yeah, I love how the Telegraph are like, UWCL team banned from League Cup. I was like, they're banned. It's weird terminology for it. They've basically been removed for safeguarding for their well-being in a way. So let's start the league a week early. That would also be quite helpful. No, but that's what they did this season. If we're talking about well-being, do you know what I mean? so BBC reported that the clubs voted in favour of this proposal to be brought in for the next season that's at the 26-27 after what's been called a comprehensive consultation process so it does kind of feel like the clubs have obviously taken the stance that this is what they would like to see the players would have I would have hoped been consulted in this process through through the club so it does feel like actually I know we're kind of debating it but it's something that the players wanted to see just don't call it a league cup then yeah what What do you call it?

33:55The Subway Cup. Subway minus three. Yeah. That kind of thing. The everyone else cup. League Cup. Fourth to twelfth cup. League Cup sub three. Come on. Come on. So good. The new look competition will see the group stage being removed too. So with all teams being ranked in a single league table, their fixtures being dictated by the region. The knockout phase will be unchanged with the top eight teams in the league table heading to the quarterfinals. and the games will be scheduled on the same nights as Champions League. That's such a good idea because then nobody will watch them. I was going to say, like that in itself feels like it's kind of shooting itself in the foot.

34:32Like you're taking out your big dog teams and then you're also showing the games when your big dog teams will be playing. You know, that will definitely improve the competition. Yeah, again, some more creativity there from WSL football, the FA and the clubs. I was going to say wait and see, but you can't really see. So wait and hear. what what we will never know what happens next um coming up after this the WSL is finally back

35:01oh it's back feels like ages it feels like it's never been away to me do you know why because I did the um the last time there was a league weekend I had gone to Toronto to do the NSL so it feels like absolutely ages since I've done a WSL game how many miles have you clocked up this year oh god knows like how many trips have you taken actually less than previous seasons that's good yeah you found any time for you and so no god no jesus beat up so far we filled it with something some more football stuff it's like even when you have weekends off you still do football things yeah like i i there's no helping you essentially it's your problem yeah um the title race resumes with leaders man city facing lesser city in what should should be should be on paper a straightforward game but you never know Man City's last league game saw them beat Man United 3-0 on November the 15th it's a game I don't really like talking about but also very good game to watch I do like talking about because my new favourite player is Kirsten Kasperi so yeah who made her 50th cap for the Netherlands this weekend yes I feel like she's just going from accolade to accolade to accolade I'm expecting Man City to win that one to kind of keep this stronghold on that beautiful number one spot that they have become accustomed to yeah I think so but I love coming back after like a period away and just seeing how teams resume because that is a difficult thing to do both physically and mentally we've seen some players pick up knocks during the international break um for for bigger teams maybe that's less of an issue but for teams who are struggling depth wise that could be a real problem um you know I think not that the wheels have necessarily come off for Leicester but they were kind of doing a little better than expected this season and then the last kind of few league games you were like okay maybe not going as well as we thought so this is a tough game to come back to I think for them not so much a free hit but like the pressure will be on Manchester City to when you're sitting at the top the pressure's on you to keep winning so um yeah I'm looking forward to that one yeah just having a look at the recent run of form from Leicester it just feels like so much has happened in the space of time that we've been on this international break so So Leicester currently sitting ninth in the table on six points.

37:09I mean, obviously against like top opposition, Leicester not doing too much, but still finding some form. They were doing better than I think a lot of people expected. Definitely. It just feels the last few runs, not so much. But yeah, it'll be a tough game against Manchester City. And again, it very much depends on how Manchester City rotate their squad or if players coming back from international break need, you know, less minutes or whatever that might be. This is like, this is when you kind of almost determine, like who's going to win the league in a way like who can find their form quickly after that break who can maintain what they had previously like even after their players have been and you've only got a couple of WSL weekends before the break you know isn't it like three weeks of nothing but is it a case of like just push through or manage loading it's it's that kind of squad management that I think is push through it's kind of the breaks on horizon underrated it's coming second place Chelsea host Everton who sit one point below Leicester if they dropped points this weekend and Man City picked up those points that would be a six point gap yeah I mean look Everton have had we touched on this the last time we talked about the WSL a tough run and I've I've said I think a lot of it is down to lacking consistency across the squad and managing the injuries that they've had and not being able to have like the same back line for a consistent amount of time or the same forward line for a consistent amount of time and they've played some good football and they've not been necessarily able to get the results playing good football which is frustrating but you think you look at the performance if they put in a performance like they did against Manchester City you know that's going to be a tough day at the office for Chelsea but conversely you look at how well Chelsea played in the Champions League just before the international break and the performance they put in against Barcelona where they drew 1-1 you would think then if they put in that kind of performance against an Everton they should comfortably win so it is again very much about how they come back off the international break this is like one of those interesting weekends where you just think like you just assume oh they'll beat them but actually 100 this could be a trip up weekend or it could be where they come in full of confidence and hit the ground running and then they have a winter break and they're like damn it i wanted to keep going it's never fucking over that kind of vibe um last week the news broke that everton's chief executive hannah foreshaw is to leave the club at the end of the season so she only started her role at the start of the season um they're only obviously one point above west ham after the defeat against the hammers last time out it does feel like a i'm not too sure what the context is behind this one um i was doing a bit of research actually on hannah forshaw and she she's an incredibly experienced like she's she's an accountant for a start that was how she started off her career um has done made absolute waves in in women's football and kind of felt like a really good safe pair of hands to kind of take everton into this kind of new stage Has it said where she's going next?

39:51No. Do you know? No. Oh, do you know? No, I don't know. Oh, sorry. I thought that was teaser. Sorry, no, no, no. I was going to say, but this is all from the case. Like someone really good will get snatched up by... That quickly? Oh, God, yeah. I mean, look at her CV. I can understand why. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. As I said, I think Everton need a bit more time. They need another window and they need a season. Like they've literally had kind of January to the summer where they had a budget. And now they've had September to Christmas where they have a bit of a budget. it like having that kind of benefit of squad depth and managing that rotation needs a little bit of time but yeah they are under the cosh a little bit well we will wait to see how they get on with that especially after the news is broken as well it's always a little bit unsettling West Ham head to Man United away that win against Everton was their first of the season and Man United have obviously lost their last two games I think that could be a very interesting matchup that was that one yeah I mean Manchester United obviously I feel like they struggled a little bit off the back of the last international break and dealing with those big champions league games definitely um so i think they will be relishing a home game against west ham they'll be looking to kind of put to bed any of those demons that they might feel were creeping in a little bit i feel for west ham getting that win just before the break was super important because they are obviously coming back to manchester united which is going to be a very difficult game and then they've got Liverpool, which will be a huge game afterwards on Sunday the 14th of December.

41:16So I feel like the Man United game, the pressure isn't necessarily there. It's going to be the following weekend. I'm expecting a very tasty fixture, to be honest. I feel like West Ham, should they keep the consistency of the form they had previously? I mean, we kind of look at some of their results. I mean, they're not losing by large amounts. They're putting the game to two clubs, but I don't know. Man United feel like they're lacking a little bit of confidence at the moment. And I feel like this could be a very good opportunity for West Ham to cause a little bit damage. As much as I hate to say it, as much as I hate to say it.

41:47We'll see. Again, it depends on how players might come back off international break, you know, feeling really buoyed. Dominic Janssen has just been made the captain of the Netherlands. You know, you could have players coming in off good results and feeling really confident, thinking we had the break we needed after the Champions League and that Wolfsburg game. And we can forget about that. And this is, you know, a new window and we can really attack it. or it could be tired legs tired heads desperate for the winter break we shall see oh god it does feel like a bit of a wait and see weekend doesn't it I'm excited for this one before we finish we've received a very lovely question from Sophie on Instagram a listener on the other side of the world we've gone international and global we've always been international and global but even bigger now because we're getting a list of questions from the other side of the world we were there we did a podcast whole tournament from there do you know sometimes I forget about that I know, me too.

42:37It's crazy. So much has happened since then. Okay, Sophie said, Hi Chloe and Rachel. This is a very odd question, but I would really appreciate some education around football etiquette. I've lived in New Zealand my whole life where football isn't very big and almost no games are televised anywhere. I love women's football and the WSL and I'm coming to visit my family so I've got tickets to Arsenal versus Liverpool this weekend. I've never been to a football match before and I'm so bloody excited. I added the bloody. Over here, there is a lot less rivalry between clubs, rugby and netball and I was surprised when my family who are Spurs fans refuse to come to an Arsenal match with me even though they don't watch women's football more as the pity.

43:10This is probably a stupid question but I really want the proper football experience and I don't want to commit any inadvertent faux pas. So do you have any advice for me? Now does it say if Sophie is an Arsenal fan? Because I feel like you could go and find where the Arsenal fan group are meeting up beforehand All day. Because they can't do that Go to any of the local pubs and you will find friends. Well this is the difficulty with the early bloody kickoff is that a lot of these pubs aren't open which is frustrating but i'm sure the arsenal supporters club group i should say um will put out where they are meeting beforehand so that is definitely worth reaching out to them i was going to joke and say you have to do full kit and a bucket hat but i don't i don't want to i don't want to just want to commit any advertent faux pas yeah no i mean there's i don't feel like there's a lot of faux pas that you could commit and i think the emirates is a really fun experience 100 i think you're absolutely right your family is missing out even if they are Spurs supporters they could actually have a really fun day um at the Emirates and you know they might watch either Arsenal or Liverpool lose and I would expect as a Spurs fan that that's quite nice if you want to have a really amazing Emirates experience I would start at the Hybernation Station because you have the brass bands that kick off there and they follow the whole entire road down to the Emirates that's really lovely playing all like the women's football anthems there's a couple of cafes on the way doing like your stereotypical like pies and chips that kind of vibe definitely stop into one of their is the tollington open maybe the tollington is a really good like pre-match pub definitely get stuck in there loads and loads of people um and it's super i'd say all the pubs along that space and all the the walk along there is super friendly it's super accepting it's super welcoming um i don't think you can have really a bad experience enjoy enjoy the atmosphere outside like the front of the emirates is quite nice yeah by the little roundabout um you've got all the graffiti around there of all the kind of um yeah get some jamaican food as well as a really nice little jamaican place on the corner it does a lovely little rum punch and some um jamaican patties as well and then you've got a little cafe as well yeah the jamaican patties will blow the roof off your mouth that'll wake you right up for the game and then you've got like a little cafe on the corner as well it's a shame it's like a chelsea game because i say go and have a look at basil he was down there last one i went to the emirates and then you normally have like the big crowd of like all the arsenal fans who have been at the pub like coming out underneath the bridge as well which is why i think she should meet up with them because then you can fully experience that get in the crowd yeah be a part of it so um yeah arsenal fan group i think is a really great shout and also there's um learn the chants there's some there's some like instagram groups like lonely girls club and stuff like that sometimes they're doing events around women's football where it's just like people who like obviously have loads of friends on the outside but like want to make new friends in like different spaces so or maybe have spurs family who refuse to come to the game yeah all that as well so um yeah can you please let us know how the experience is for you um and also thank you very much for listening to the pod on the other side of the world um and that's a really lovely question are you going to that game you're going to be in a box I won't be in a box actually I'm trying to have weekends where I just sit and watch the games in front of the TV I feel like I'm just trying to take some down time as we head towards the Christmas period I'm not sure literally it's also getting too cold it's rainy outside and you are not you're cool wearing girls I can't find my cagoule so I won't be doing that I think I'm going to refrain I think until 2026 but if anyone does want to offer me hospitality then just drop us a comment in the notes that'd be that'd be lovely thank you thank you so much for listening to up front you can find us on instagram and x slash twitter i'm at morgy underscore 89 rach is at girls on the ball and we are at up front underscore pod you can also find us on youtube at up front pod in the meantime see you next week

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