Man City’s title credentials, West Ham redemption and same old Arsenal

0:28Welcome to Upfront, I'm Chloe Morgan. Meanwhile, continue to fall off the pace. Get a bit worrying now. During nil-nil with Spurs in the North London derby, they are now eight points adrift of leaders Man City after back-to-back draws in the league.

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1:21So go ahead, click the link in the show notes and put your name in the hat. it has been quite an eventful weekend Rach I this is what I wanted this is what I didn't want the title race to be wrapped up in like week nine or whatever it is like I wanted the kind of the drama the excitement the jeopardy and I feel like this weekend is delivering some results that probably weren't expecting across the bottom and the top of the table um but before we get stuck into a lot of the games that went on this weekend and try and unpack what the hell went down let me know you're very bit of the weekend mate because there was there was a lot there was a lot of drama this weekend so I had to think about this and it was very nice because I was watching a lot of these games from my hotel room in Toronto on free to air TV so just wake up at like seven o 'clock in the morning and I've just got WSL to watch it was great and I think my moment is going to be Viv Miedema's pass in the United City game the Manchester Derby and I'm sure if you watched it you'll know exactly what what I'm talking about because in the second half she put in a sliding kind of tackle, defensive tackle on Ziggy Oti.

2:22Won the ball, got up, super quick for me to mark because normally when she ends up in a heap on the ground, it takes a little while to get up. I think she's a bad player. There's a lot of limbs. Yes, but up super quick. Took a couple of touches and then threaded this pass, split the United defense into the feet of Bunny Shaw. And it just reminded me of that goal that Blacksellia scored for Arsenal against United when Minamah did something similar, won the ball back deep in their own defense and just sent a kind of defense splitting pass that fell at the feet of Bunny Short. She didn't have to slow her stride and the only downside was that it didn't result in a goal because that movement just deserved a goal and yeah for me that was just you know when a player does something and you're just like that really exemplifies who that player is like how good they are and I just remember that being one of those moments right we me and Sophie just like oh wow that was so good so that's gonna be my one it was like a hot knife through butter it was like that kind of like uh like pleasing visually kind of like visually stimulating like thing I think I've got to agree with that I think it was such a pinpoint perfect pass like it couldn't have been either a left like left or right by an inch and it was just like absolutely bang on and I think yeah like you said like being able to like bunny strike like just take it in a stride and carry on I think absolutely unbelievable yeah that's just like the talent that she has and that kind of the eye for the pass as well like it's not easy when you've just like come into a bit of a crumpled heap and then got up and composed yourself to deliver something like that so fair fair enough mate um I've got to give a shout out to Alyssa Thompson again like the goal I mean it was so it's become like quintessential Thompson to kind of produce goals of that kind of magnitude and like we saw the same thing she did pretty much the same thing in there in the Emirates game the Arsenal game a couple of weeks back and I just thought it was just so beautiful how she drove down that left-hand side kind of like cut the ball in and then this like beautiful strike top bins there was nothing the keeper could have done about it it was just like you're just like left going what the hell and the worst thing is like because it becomes such a mainstream moment for her scoring goals of this magnitude she didn't even celebrate that much it was kind of just like a you know this is what it is this is this is the Thompson way and then I think it was Aggie Bibi-Josie went over and gave her a massive hug and was all smiles and like it was like she'd actually scored the goal so yeah I've got to give a shout out to Thompson because I think at the moment the trajectory that she's on she's going to get young player of the year all day it was one of those as soon as I left her boot you knew it was going in all day do you know like there was no question about it you're like that's going to toppings it was written in the stars it was completely written in the stars by the by the I think it was almost like 20 yards before she'd even taken the strike it was kind of written in the stars but let's get stuck into the Manchester derby first off like there's so many games kind of go at it kind of feels like this is the one that everyone's kind of most talking about because it was kind of that clash you didn't know how man man united were going to pick themselves up kind of you know and like where they were going to sit in the title race after this game obviously man city's so much to play for they've been in the the higher echelons of the wsl like now for ages and you don't know whether the pressure is going to get to them they're at the top like could we keep it so this kind of felt like the one that everyone was like christ this really is like a battle of the ages kind of game also they had just gone top of the table and then had to follow it up to play Manchester United, which is not an easy game, not that I'm saying there's an easy game at the WSL, but to have to play someone in the top four right after you've overtaken Chelsea to retain that spot, that kind of added that kind of edge to it as well.

5:50It just added that little bit more pressure, I guess. 100%. And I think, I mean, obviously everyone knows Manchester City 3, United 0. We need to unpack this. But even before you kind of go into the game, you're thinking, we don't know how Man United are going to perform. They're also without their keeper. so there was the news that Fallon Tullis-Joyce fractured her eye socket against Aston Villa last weekend I think it's going to take several weeks to recover from is the current state of affairs and no return date confirmed so an amazing chance for Middleton Patel to go in like we all know like you know we've seen her play before great keeper played one of the Champions League 100 % but Fallon Tullis-Joyce is kind of like your bread and butter at the moment like you know what you're getting like this is the kind of game that you really want someone of like that level of experience kind of at the back sticks kind of giving you that additional confidence Obviously, just one point separated these two sides at the end of last season, but it was the difference between getting European football last year.

6:43Man City, obviously, I think no one can deny, were far better, the far better team in this game, put pressure on United from the first kick of the ball. No one can deny, apparently Mark Skinner can. But I love how media trained and media friendly he is in his responses. I think we've all come to know and become accustomed to kind of, there's been a lot of words, but I'm not entirely sure that anything of like huge substance has been said. Viv Miedema kind of kicking things off quite nicely, hitting the post in that fourth minute. I mean, it kind of just felt like it was Miedema's game to play.

7:15Early doors, it should have been a massive warning sign for Man United. It was so easy for her to shrug off Sigioti and kind of take that strike. That was alarm bells for me, but it didn't feel like it got, that wasn't the alarm warning sound that I even heard ringing in United's ears because it didn't feel like anything really changed after that moment. and then you've got this Hasegawa moment where she could have scored in the fifth minute. Again, kind of finding that luck on the left-hand side. Great crossing. Hasegawa was at the back post. Great defensive block. You've got to give credit to Man United, but that's two attempts in five, two clear-cut attempts in five minutes.

7:44And then you kind of think, where is this game going? But yeah, I mean, Rachel, what were your kind of thoughts in the opening kind of five or 10 minutes? Because it just felt a little bit like, this doesn't look good for United early doors. Yeah, I thought City started really well, full of intent, full of confidence. And what I'm really enjoying for Manchester City at the moment, I said this on Twitter, they've been releasing like their pre-match or halftime talks from Andrei Yeglerts. I love it. I think it's so interesting. You know, we often ask those questions like, what did he say at halftime?

8:14And you never really get like a proper answer or like a full idea of it. So to actually be able to witness the way he kind of has brought that team together, the way he instills belief in the squad. And I do feel like there is a real belief in the way that they play this season. and you could feel that from the kickoff. You know, they were at home at the Etihad. They knew this was a big game. It was an opportunity for them to keep that spot at the top of the table. And you just, yeah, there was a confidence there that perhaps, not that it was lacking, but I think last season, and Kirsten Kasper, I spoke about it on our pod last week.

8:47If you haven't listened to, it was super. About how there were games where they perhaps haven't been playing that well always this season, but that they're getting the wins. and maybe last season they wouldn't have done that. Are they the new mentality monsters? Yeah, I genuinely think the mentality, the belief is there this season and they've really bought into the way that Jäglerts wants to play. I also think they've managed the injuries that they've had thus far. You know, Hemp, Carolyn, Greenwood, they're managing them better and I guess that could also come down to the fact that they experienced a lot of injuries last season, which is kind of why their season derailed, I think, a big reason.

9:29And they've maybe just had that experience under their belt in terms of how to try and manage when you're missing big players. I think, you know, the return of Hemp massively helped. She had a brilliant game. Great to see her get a goal as well, much deserved. But I think she just offers, and it's something Jägler has spoken about, having different ways to attack, which perhaps in previous seasons they've been a bit more one-dimensional. And I just think they're a bit more multidimensional. And Lauren Hemp just adds another element for them going forward. And you've got the likes of Miedema able to pick out those passes, find those dangerous players, but equally then provide a threat in the box as well.

10:07So, yeah, they just looked full of intent. No, I 100 % agree. And I think for me, what I've seen this year is kind of Man City, they are taking their chances. They're being so much more clinical. I feel like when they get those opportunities, you kind of know pretty much it's going in the back of the net. And I think, yes, there was that kind of early intent and the first couple of chances were there with Miedema there and Hasegawa. And yes, they obviously didn't go in, but it kind of felt like the pressure was mounting and they were building for something, actually converting at some point. And kind of when you look at their run of form, I mean, they've scored 23 goals in the last nine games.

10:37They're top, like far, their goals for are far better than Chelsea's and Arsenal's. And you think, OK, well, this is exactly what we wanted to see from Man City, this kind of like ruthlessness in front of goals. So yeah, 100%. It feels like it's a, I wouldn't say like a revamped city. Like they're, you know, they had opportunities, but this feels like it's just so much more clinical. It's just so much more direct. It's so much more like there's a passion, there's an intensity. They want to create, they want to go forward. Like they're directing their kind of attack. And yeah, and I think it's that they're giving their players, like you said, the kind of flexibility.

11:09And that was definitely something Casper I mentioned in the interview, kind of how she was kind of given that freedom to push forward and kind of create those chances. And that's literally what she'd done in this game. so many assists from her. Like, yeah, it's just, it's nice to watch. Like it's fluid. Yeah. I think what's interesting as well is like, Midem and Shaw have missed a lot of opportunities, quite a few opportunities. God, Shaw at the start couldn't find the back of the net. Yeah. The fact is, Bunny Shaw is still like scoring lots of goals. And I think that is a testament to the fact that they're finding a multitude of ways to attack the opposition's goal, that even if they are missing those opportunities, they know that more will come.

11:46and more often than not, Buddy Shaw's going to definitely score one of them. So, you know, and now they've got the likes of Kasperi scoring, you touched on there. Rebecca Kanak is back from injury. She's scoring goals. She loves a headed goal. So that's just another weapon for them and set pieces. They've got players back now. It can be really potent in those moments as well. So I just think, yeah, they've done really well at the beginning of the season, despite maybe losing a couple of important players to keep their, I'm not going to say head above water, because that implies that they've massively struggled or anything.

12:14They managed to sustain the level and now these players are coming back. It's only going to add more depth and more quality and more players who can finish those moments that they're creating. So it's just going to build our confidence, I think. Well, talking off finishing and Rebecca Knack, I mean, she obviously opened up the scoring 23rd minute. Beautiful header on the second ball from a corner. So it was like all your favorite players kind of combining for like a lovely moment. So it was this hemp cross, finds Bonnie Shaw. She has the audacity to head it back into space where she knows the Man City players are literally waiting for the opportunity to score.

12:48Knaak then heads it back across goal. And for me, that was just like a beautiful moment where everything was just kind of clicking. It felt very kind of like training ground textbook type of goal. The disappointing thing for me was United kind of sitting off of key players. I mean, allowing those pretty much, there was two free headers pretty much in the box. Like Shaw and Knaak, they weren't, there was no kind of pressure on them. They weren't putting them off. the headers were so clean like to me it just felt like super super disappointing then you've got City scoring their second and the 43rd minute obviously our guest on the pod last week Kirsten Kasparaj captaining her side once again being a massive massive part of that putting that ball into the corridor of uncertainty as we call it how poetic and then Bunny Shaw kind of like this beautiful sliding moment times it just to perfection kind of gets her toes on like the end of it for the beautiful second goal but it kind of just felt like there was that relentlessness that you knew they were going to go again and they weren't going to take their foot off the gas a little bit.

13:40And I think that's the mentality that we're seeing in Man City that we're not necessarily seeing. We're going to discuss Chelsea later on, but we're seeing Chelsea score one goal and then kind of sit back and invite a little bit more pressure. With City, it doesn't feel like that's happening at all. Is that how you feel? Yeah, I do think, as I said, they're creating so much. And at times, their defence has looked a bit shaky and looks like it can be got at, but they've been kind of holding it together. you know missing Alex Greenwood is is big um so but to have their front line and midfield being so dangerous you know it kind of almost doesn't really matter because they just believe that they will get another goal and I you know you saw that in the Arsenal game um where they just kept believing that they were going to get another goal even when Arsenal came back into it um but just to touch on that Kaspari cross that was like that is it that was a perfect cross in from the wing it was so it was just far enough out that the keeper couldn't really be comfortable coming for it and it was just far enough away from the Manchester United player who was trying to keep pace with Bunny Shaw but it wasn't far enough away from but like that gap was closing for her to put that ball in and it was absolutely perfect and I think she's been delivering you know all season with those kind of balls and it's those relationships that are working really well because they know, Bunnishaw knows, if I just need to get into position, Casper is more than likely going to put it on a plate for me.

15:06Or Miedema is going to put it on a plate for me. Or Lauren Hemp is going to find me at the back putt, whatever it might be. And yeah, I just think the more those types of goals, I think they score nice goals. The more those kind of goals keep coming, it just kind of builds and builds. Like, I know I said it already, but just builds that confidence. And I just, that's what's made them quite enjoyable to watch is you can see and feel their belief from the pitch. The belief was also created though, I think, by Man United and kind of, again, like the disappointment that I feel about how that goal, what kind of led up to that goal, because it came from Rose.

15:39She was completely unchallenged, kind of driving into acres of space in the midfield. She obviously then finds Kaspari on the right-hand side. You've got three United defenders staying super, super central in that moment and only, it felt like a kind of 1v1 kind of situation with Kaspari. and then obviously I think it was Leah Golton who was trying to manage Kasper on that right hand side she then manages to find that ball in and you think there was three or four players around Bunny Short and she's still able to turn that ball into the back of the net it just felt like the United that we've seen at the start of the season how compact they were in midfield how that kind of didn't it fell apart for me they didn't feel like there was that there were just so many gaps that I think allowed Man City to kind of play the football that they wanted to obviously then they kind of add that third goal just before the break another assist for Kasparaj, this time teeing up an absolute fan favorite, Lauren Hemp, for that absolutely beautiful strike from the edge of the box.

16:29But the defense for that really frustrated me because Ziggy Oti was coming to close down and then she just stopped about like a couple of feet from Lauren Hemp and it just allowed her that time to pull off a shot on target. And I just thought like, you keep that run going, completely close down that, smother the ball. I just, I was sat there going, why, what happened? Why did you stop? I don't know, maybe that kind of exemplified United a little bit of just like making the moves, but just not being sharp enough in the key moments. Do you know that kind of way? Because you look at the stats, I think they had more possession United.

17:04They had more touches in City's box, but actually from watching the game, it didn't feel like that. So maybe it was, and we're going to talk about it, Champions League. It's been, it was a thing that a lot of us spoke about at the beginning of the season. How were Manchester United going to manage Champions League and the league with a squad that needs more depth? Like that has been the conversation we've been having nearly week in, week out. And I think it showed this week and it's both the physical and mental sharpness that just didn't, that seemed to be lacking. and those were those moments where you're just like normally you wouldn't expect something like that to happen you'd expect them to completely close that moment down but that sharpness was just lacking for me No I 100 % agree and I think I mean you look at one of their best chances that obviously came through Jess Park who kind of hit the woodwork in the 71st minute it kind of felt like too little too late for me but I think there are questions now being asked like you said Rachel kind of like what the impact of Champions League football and kind of progressing into the competition looks like for United I think super super important I mean, Mark Skinner's, obviously you mentioned there, that didn't register a single shot on target despite having almost 60 % possession over the 90 minutes.

18:12I think, like you said, Rae, they looked tired. They looked lethargic. They looked a bit fatigued. And you have to talk about Skinner's comments because he said, I felt the players gave as much as they could. They just switched off. That can be tiredness and fatigue, but we can't accept that and we have to fix that. Obviously, the context of that is being like that midweek United beat PSG 2-1 in the Champions League. But they're going to have to kind of find this new United life, which is life in the Champions League. This is hopefully going to be a consistent thing they're going to have to juggle every single year.

18:40So I think... Well, if they get there. If they get there. But that's what they're kind of aiming for, like that top three finish. The expectation is there. And I feel like it's going to feel like a disappointment if they don't reach that. But there is some grace period, I suppose, to be given to a team that is entering such high-level elite tournament football whilst trying to juggle all the other commitments that's going on. But at the same time, I think Skinner was kind of fair in saying, And well, you know, other teams have had to juggle exactly the same thing. So it's just a case of maybe giving United a year and just seeing what the situation is next year.

19:10Should they make it to Ciampo? Sure. And I'm okay with that. What I didn't enjoy were the comments saying we gave City those goals. It wasn't like they dominated us. That's the scary thing. We'll see at the end of the season. I still think you can catch them. I don't see anything exceptional with them. Sorts fired. What we need to do is use the winter window to recruit the people we need to help support this team. That was just unnecessary. like anyone watching that game City well just because you didn't they didn't dominate you possession wise they were far and away the better team created a lot had shots on target and I just found that was a bit maybe it was reactionary maybe it was a bit emotional but like unnecessary it's not like you just lost 1-0 by you know the death one scrappy goal yeah so I was a bit like trying to be like no they're not exceptional it just kind of came off a bit like sour grapes, do you know what I mean?

19:59Like I think being able to recognize maybe when you get a game plan wrong or maybe when you struggle due to the amount of games you're playing and, you know, I'm glad he did say like maybe it was, we were fatigued or whatever because you need to be able to hold your hands up when you get it wrong. Yeah, I think it's that. It is kind of new territory for United. I don't think they got it right but obviously they're having to kind of manage and juggle this kind of squad that's competing on these multiple fronts. And obviously you have to factor in, you know, they're only getting like two days rest like in between like these big, you know, important fixtures.

20:28And sometimes the fixtures just are super unlucky. You're going to have that Champions League game. And then the next fixture of the WSL is going to be one of your top three, one of your top four condensers. That is just, that's just life. But yeah, there's some luck in it, I suppose, that they could have had a, you know, a bottom of the table fixture, but it just is what it is. But they weren't. Well, I mean, they lost to Aston Villa, so. Yeah, well, I suppose, yeah, I can't even give them that credit, to be fair. But yeah, I think it's just one of those, I think just be humble about it, accept what went wrong.

20:54and also just appreciate that Man City played better football on the day. I think that is it at the end of the day. The win now means, obviously, City are now three points clear at the top of the table. Very much enjoying life. I'm very much enjoying the way that this table looks at the moment. Yeah, I'm kind of really hoping that City cling on to it, especially after I've got such a soft spot now, an additional soft spot for Kirsten Caspary as well. Oh man, I know, me too. We're like fangirls now. It's so unprofessional. We need to get our shit together. Honestly, it's too much for me to support London City Lioness to support Man United, to support Arsenal, and then also like mildly support Kirsten Kasperi of Man City.

21:29Like I think even I have to draw a line and set some boundaries for myself. Well, she's making it difficult. I think what I've been enjoying is that like we're seeing doors being left open for teams, you know? Just when you think someone might run away with it, like someone like leaves a little door open and like, are they going to take the opportunity? You know, Chelsea drop points, City win, like United drop points, Arsenal just ignore it as expected. You know, there's like, we're still having that so far into the season and there's been times where it's felt a bit more like well we know how this is going to end and actually it doesn't feel like that yet and if we can get to Christmas and still be a bit like who's going to win the league I'd be delighted Well talking of very interesting features and a team that kind of did the dirty on Chelsea we're going to talk about Liverpool after this and some big results at the other end of the WSL standings

22:31Oh Rach, this is the result that I wanted. This was a nice one for me. I looked up and all of a sudden Liverpool won one against Chelsea. An impressive, impressive point against the title challengers. It was Liverpool's second point of the season. This was a moment that no one kind of really saw coming, given Liverpool's run of form and given Chelsea's run of form, looked like it was going to be a super familiar story for Liverpool when obviously million pounds, superstar signing, Alyssa Thompson scored this absolute screamer in the ninth minute, kind of cutting inside the right foot and putting it in the far corner.

23:04Obviously, that was my moment of the weekend. It was absolutely stunning to watch. It did feel a little bit kind of like the Arsenal-Emirates game, quintessential Chelsea-Arsenal situation. And then all of a sudden, it did not go that way at all. But yeah, I mean, what were you kind of making of Chelsea in the first 10 minutes? Because they looked fairly strong, fairly compact, got the early goal. I thought this was going to build confidence. And then once again, I kind of feel like Chelsea stepped off a little bit and then let Liverpool get a little bit of an opportunity. Yeah, which, you know, coming up against this Liverpool who are really suffering with injuries, obviously suffering in terms of being down around the bottom of the table and trying to get a win, trying to get a point.

23:47There's a lot of areas you could probably lean on to try and exploit and feel like, OK, we can make this really difficult for them. And I just don't feel like that ruthlessness was there from Chelsea. You know, as you said, it started really well. I thought when they scored nine minutes in, I thought, OK, this might be a tough day at the office. but actually they became really quite structured, energetic. I thought their press was really effective and I think they capitalized and it's an area that can be exploited for Chelsea, which can be that back line if you get a ball in behind or that pace from an opposition team can force errors from that Chelsea back line.

24:23And we saw that with the goal from Olsen, who it was a quintessential counterattack, like beautifully done. And I just think she's really grown. She's, you know, providing an efficiency that I think Liverpool had been lacking a little bit in front of goal. And I think with key players being injured, that role was falling to others who maybe don't always find themselves in that position and therefore aren't particularly effective when they were front of goal. whereas Olsen was like cool hold my beer like got you covered I'm comfortable or fun to go for a youngster to be like confident and comfortable and it just it reminded me a little bit of Bunny Shaw almost being that one-on-one and actually didn't become a goal whereas Olsen was like cool I'm all right like I'm I might get one chance it has to be this one yeah and I was really impressed with that with that confidence um but yeah I think for Chelsea it was that kind of lack a pace at the back that Liverpool were able to exploit.

25:19And if you get the game plan right, you know, I think, you know, Liverpool are good enough and Gareth Taylor is good enough to be able to recognise where they can try and exploit. It's just whether you can execute that. And I thought they did a very good job of executing their game plan. Conversely, Chelsea just looked a bit flat. I don't know if they used up all their goals midweek in the Champions League, if that's what happened. They kind of rang out. We thought we can score seven in a week or whatever. And if we've got like six or whatever, I think it was, I mean, I was there, I should know.

25:48You know, maybe they were like, no, we've only got one left in the tank for this week. I don't know what happened, but I was quite surprised at their lack of clinicalness and the kind of ruthlessness that was maybe lacking a little bit, which we so associate with Chelsea in those moments where they're drawing a game and you sit there going, this isn't over. They're going to get one. They're going to score one, whether it's the 93rd minute, you know they've got that in them. And they just seem to be lacking that little bit of bite, which we're so used to seeing. Do you know what? When I was on the flight to Dubai, I watched the Emma Hayes documentary and it was all about, you know, her last season with Chelsea obviously didn't go to plan and they got knocked out the FA Cup, like Champions League, obviously that wasn't for them.

26:28And then they were kind of fighting for like the last trophy, the title and Emma wanted to obviously end at a high. And there was those moments weren't there where they kind of felt like they were out of the title race. And then Emma Hayes did this, like they, I think they won the next game and Arsenal dropped points. Then Emma Hayes did this massive speech on pitch and it was like, it's never fucking over. It's not, it's not fucking done or something to that extent. It was when they lost to Liverpool and she was basically like, well, that's the end of the league kind of thing. It was that. And then all of a sudden Chelsea come back into it and you kind of feel like this is where, this is kind of the kind of games that you feel like, oh, Chelsea are just going to get that goal in the 94th minute, as you said.

27:00But what I was really super impressed with was like Liverpool's resilience. I 100 % expected that that first goal was going to be floodgates opened. It was going to be a really tough game. It was going to end up in a high scoring thing. It's just like, this just cements like Liverpool's entire start to the season. It's not gone to plan Things haven't gelled With the new manager This is just kind of like Liverpool and they're going to Try and pick things up Hopefully with a better Transfer window in January But then Obviously that equaliser 33 minute And like Olsen I mean I couldn't quite work out What had happened Because there was a kind of A bit of like a Pinball type ball off It kind of like Bounced around a bit And then obviously Fell to Olsen From Woodham Woodham I thought Had an absolutely Incredible game I thought she was so punchy But then like you said Kind of go Even though she won the ball She had so much work to do in driving down the pitch, keeping the ball close to her, keeping it under control.

27:45She's got Millie Bright breathing down her neck and then she's got to convert that chance past the keeper. And I think there was so much composure in that moment. Like they knew that they weren't going to get many opportunities like that, you know, one v one with the keeper and to convert under that kind of level of pressure, like absolutely like all for it. I think a lot of people off the back of that have kind of been talking about Millie Bright not being kind of on form in that game. Obviously taken off at a halftime as well, replaced with Naomi Germer. But it did feel a little bit, it was an unusual one because Millie Bright, I just think, has been like one of the most consistent players in the last few years for Chelsea in terms of performances.

28:21Like never really like drops off, like maybe has like a mistake or so, but like doesn't drop off like to this level. But this kind of felt like there was a shakiness, I think I felt for Millie Bright. I mean, what did you take, Rach? I think it's also a bit of a pace thing as well. I think that could be an area of concern. And, you know, in previous seasons, we've seen her and Bjorn be so good together. but I think sometimes teams have kind of figured out where they can exploit and as I touched on earlier sometimes it is that pace in behind and that kind of that's an area that can be exploited and you can create opportunities if you've got quick wingers or quick forwards and we saw that now you know they've brought in depth in those roles they've just had the unfortunate injuries on Buchanan and Girma obviously take a little while to come back in so once they have that depth I think I would expect to see more changes there and like because otherwise teams can kind of figure you out a little bit and the whole point of Chelsea having this depth is be able to put in the right players in the right moments and they maybe not haven't necessarily been able to do that because of the injuries in the back line so you know Niamh Charles was out for a bit so Lucy Bronze is out for a bit so there has been a little bit of tinkering in that back line but I think when they've got players fit and ready that's where they can start to shore up those areas of I wouldn't even say necessarily weakness but those areas that can be exploited and I've touched on this teams are getting tactically smarter technically better you know we saw it at the Euros they're able to work out a game plan to hurt you it's just whether they can consistently deliver it over 90 minutes so I think teams are finding ways to exploit Chelsea and I think once they get players back in injury wise they'll be able to look at those areas and shore up a little bit I think that's what I've made me like seeing it's like this um the vulnerability that you kind of see with Chelsea at the moment like where yes it's kind of like a small defensive weakness I wouldn't say it's massive they still have like one of the best defensive records in in the league I think that their top defensive record in the league at the moment so like there's not it's not a massive massive issue but like I do feel like for me it's like it's not it's the punchiness kind of going forwards and it's like I don't know reliance on you get that goal and then they're just going to sit in this kind of like really unsafe space that there's no distance between them and the other and the opposition and that allows that kind of opportunity to creep it creep in I mean if it wasn't for and I've got to give credit again to Lillie Woodham that effort around like the 70 minute mark inches wide of the post I mean this could have been a loss and that's kind of that almost feels like quite catastrophic for Chelsea at this point because at the moment they've just set this massive WSL record now gone 34 league games uh league matches unbeaten and you think this could have been the thing that that kind of unstuck them and and it it is like it wouldn't have been fair I do think Chelsea on the day with a better side but my god this could have been the game that like really unsettled them I mean yeah yeah it felt a bit hard to kind of and it is an incredible achievement to break that record but it would have felt a bit weird to be like going out on socials and going this is like this is amazing because Chelsea fans were not happy with that result in the performance so it was a bit of a dichotomy of like isn't this amazing but also that was a bit shit um you know and like you think about one shot on target from nine created and they had 32 touches in Liverpool's box to Liverpool's four in Chelsea's box yet they had Chelsea had one shot on target and Liverpool had two like that's wild you know and it's sometimes it's almost like and it can be when teams are really defensively solid it's really hard to kind of break down find those gaps and you know someone like an LJ is often the kind of person who can unlock and find that pass and you know I know she came on late but that's the kind of armory of weapons Chelsea normally have and they maybe haven't had absolutely all of them at their disposal.

32:03But yeah, look, it's another challenge to consistently be able to break down teams and consistently be able to, I mean, they've done, not lost for 34 games. Incredible. That's a bloody hard thing to be consistent at while everybody else is improving. And also credit to Liverpool. I think perhaps this whole injury crisis, and sometimes we see it, has really quite galvanized the team. And, you know, sometimes players have had to play in roles that aren't natural to them. and there's a real commitment there to what they want to do and what they want to achieve. They're desperate to get a first win.

32:34Just get the first win monkey off your back, I think, will be massive for them. Yeah, definitely. I think there's also something about when you're a team that shouldn't on paper win a game, but you go and face a big opposition and there's just this kind of like, could we? That kind of thing. A kind of like a cheeky mentality to it. It's like, okay, could we get a win out of this? When I was playing for Palace and we'd face like, I don't know, Arsenal or Man City. in like the, I remember playing for Spurs actually when we placed Man City in one of the FA Cup games and it was a really close game.

33:04I think they only won, I think it was like 2-0 or something. But for us, that was absolutely massive and there were definitely, there was a couple of moments that we could have scored, like didn't, didn't have, didn't covet our chances, Man City on the day, obviously the better team. But we frustrated the hell out of them so much that I thought, actually, we might actually get something for this game and take it to penalties, which is anyone's game. So there was that, I think there's 100 % something in that kind of underdog mentality and that's no disrespect to Liverpool. incredibly talented but like on paper yeah it is it's you know and I think you know the fact that they scored in the 33rd minute the longer than the game went on that Chelsea weren't creating quality high enough quality chances the more confident then Liverpool get and they think actually we're not allowing them to create something of quality it's not like we're having to pull off these unbelievable saves to keep them out and you just feel like the dam is eventually going to break it didn't feel like that and I think that's what's been interesting in Chelsea of previous seasons where you've had games like that where you think oh my god we're ticking off into injury time and it's currently it's a draw like Chelsea would find a way and I think the more they and the thing is they haven't lost but they have dropped points and then when that happens it's almost I don't know whether it's a mentality thing where they start to think are we going to get the winning goal are we going to be able to make sure we put this game to bed so you know it's it's so interesting because it's not all about physicality and quality on the pitch.

34:24There's a mental side to the game as well. Well, I think there was a couple of rice smiles from Kerry Holland and Lily Woodham, I think, just after that Lily Woodham effort. And it was just a bit like, we could. We've done it before. But obviously, Chelsea now hoping to get back to winning ways in the Champions League, a competition they've been strong in so far, but also it just feels like it's kind of monkey on their back type situation. This elusive trophy facing Barcelona for the 14th 105 million and 91 time, who obviously looks super, super formidable, winning all three of their games and scored 14 goals, conceding only once.

34:59So just on classic Barcelona form, really. Chelsea, though, obviously kind of different story with them sitting in a comfortable fourth in the league and have not yet lost. We've got a really cool question, actually, from Shalvi on Instagram, who's like one of our like absolute favourite question askers, question askers on the pod, who has said all three teams involved in the Champions League of drop points does this signify anything um yeah I think is the short answer um I think there's a lot of credit to be given to teams like Manchester United who are still trying to figure out like squad depth how they rotate how they deal with like the you know 48 hour recovery period I think teams like you know your Chelsea's your Man City's your Arsenal's like that kind of feels like a different gravy like they're experienced in Champions League football I think for like they know the rotations but obviously like sometimes it just comes down to luck sometimes you face those injuries like you have things that unexpectedly happen um I don't think and I think obviously the competition that the the teams that they're facing in the Champions League at these stages like your your PSGs your Barcers like these aren't like the the low level kind of like European teams these are like your absolute like your big dogs so yeah and it takes a lot out of you like I think every single time like we talk about like the the load management in games like when I first played for Spurs like we were I think the average running time was about I think it's seven or eight kilometers like by the time that I'd finished with Spurs it was around the 11-12 kilometer mark like and that is going up because people expected to do more and more work rate off the ball like especially with a team like Barcelona you're going to be chasing the ball for like large parts of large parts of the time that's going to end up in fatigue that's going to affect like your performance going forward so there are like technical performance factors that come into things like this but they are also things that there is that experience of having been in these competitions for a few years I think look there are lots of reasons but the thing is you know this isn't exclusive to English teams.

36:47There are teams across Europe that are playing in multiple competitions and having to face multiple teams and the quality. And you look at Bayern Munich, for example, getting absolutely schooled by Barcelona and then providing the mother of all comebacks against Arsenal. And they're playing in a league and they've got cups. And, you know, so what I'm going to say applies to those teams too. So it's not an excuse, I don't think, for English teams, but it isn't just Champions League. you know majority of these players are also playing for their country and their national team and many have come back off a Euros and you know they've come back off another international break and so apart from the physicality side of things you need to consistently be getting yourself mentally ready for those games and I think that's something that we're seeing teams maybe struggle with and for Arsenal for English players maybe it's coming from one of the ultimate highs winning a Champions League, winning a Euros, and then having to be G'd up and ready to go for Aston Villa or Everton or whatever and be delivering the same levels, which I think is very difficult to do.

37:50But I equally just don't think that's an excuse that can only be applied to English teams because other teams in other countries are in a similar boat. I do think what's making it more difficult for these teams now as well is that the quality is improving in the WSL. So you might draw at Liverpool. you know and in the past Chelsea not on top of their game was still better generally than everybody else who are top of their game so I don't think I think that's becoming more difficult now you're seeing teams dropping points where you would usually expect them to pick up points it's not it's it's also down to those teams getting better but also not turning up in the day essentially and that's been happening quite a bit people out of form lots of different little reasons I think but as I said you can also apply that to teams across the board in Europe.

38:35Well two teams who don't have to worry about Champions League football West Ham and Everton I think you wondered where I was going to go with that sentence then didn't you? Yeah Liverpool's fellow WSL stragglers West Ham earned a massive win against Everton at home their first win of the season

38:55come on lads come on uh a nuke denton put the hammers in front in the first half after a goalkeeping error from emily ramsey at the front pose looked like an intended cross a kind of a cutback from denton and then kind of ended up kind of wrong foot in emily ramsey a little bit and then kind of she kind of parried it into her own net obviously super super unfortunate i think i can kind of understand how the errors come about i think she expected that she was going to lean to her right-hand side to kind of like try and intercept the cut back or try and pivot herself to kind of deal with the uh the strike from the cut back I think it kind of caught her off guard that she wasn't expecting that at the near post and they I hate goalkeeper coaches always protect your near post always protect your near post that's the but then you can't do everything at once and you've just got to read the game in that moment in that moment like your experience is telling you chance that it's a cut back they're not going to try at the front post I'm here positioned at the front post so I just I just I just want to give that bit of credit to Emily Ramsey but obviously not a great start um then the towering header from Amber Atiziax um doubled West Ham's lead in the 41st minute lovely little corner a brilliant set piece again Ramsey kind of had no chance for this one it was a super powerful header but this was like this is a very strong start for West Ham this this kind of felt like the West Ham that we've come in waiting to see Rach I mean yeah what did you kind of think because this was this was a this is big this was I feel like a performance that has been coming for West Ham, despite everyone insisting that they're shit and they have no style.

40:20I've actually watched a lot of their games and I just have disagreed. Like I think they've had some good periods of football. Again, I've said this before, they've had good halves. This was probably the most complete performance I've seen from West Ham across 90 minutes. They dominated. There's no two ways about it. And you know, when you look back at the Leicester game where they drew 1-1 they dominated that game pretty much too but just not quality in front of goal which has been a massive issue for them this season what's funny is you know we've all been talking about Uweki, Esehi, Martinez why aren't they scoring up pops Denton and Tiziak forget that bring the defenders up they'll score anybody goals and take the pressure off what I thought was really funny was I had we had the Liverpool Chelsea game on the TV and I had one year in the West Ham Everton game West Ham score in the 32nd minute I'm like oh my god amazing they're in front no less than 60 seconds later Liverpool score and I was like what is wrong with you guys why are you so obsessed with each other leave each other alone I was like is this really going to happen where they're going to have the same results but no I think West Ham deservedly doubled their lead deservedly went in at half time ahead could have scored more super like creative which has happened before where they've created shots but not high quality shots they had six shots on target from 19 shots 34 touches in the box you know they tails were definitely up and I think getting the cushion of the second goal allowed them that little bit more freedom to push forward and they could have scored more for sure um so yeah a really impressive performance hopefully it gives them the lift they've needed because it has felt like they are one win away from just getting that little bit of confidence and being able to say, do you know what?

42:04We can score goals. I know we like hitting it in and around the fucking goal and not into it, but actually maybe we should start putting it between the sticks. So I'm not saying they're unbelievable. I'm not, you know, it's still going to be, there's lots down in and around the bottom and they've got difficult fixtures coming up, but I do think they've deserved a win because they have played well. It's kind of annoying me. I've seen West Ham fans come out and be like, shit, we're terrible. We have no style. Skinner out. And I'm like, are you actually watching the games? You know, they played really well against City in the first half, good against Arsenal in the first half, good against Brighton in the second half.

42:38And I was like, do that for 90 minutes and score a frigging goal. So that has felt like that's what I've been wanting from West Ham so far this season. So I'm glad they finally managed to put on a performance like that. What I think is that it's kind of taken nine games now. And obviously, like, they're not out of hot water. Like, I appreciate this is a great win. And what I'm hoping is, like, this will build the momentum and confidence to go into the next few games kind of like with that like tenacity that they can do this and can get themselves out of trouble. But I think like you said, Fates, I think there is this kind of like lazy narrative around West Ham just being crap.

43:10And that's not been the case. Like you said, there have been like some like moments of like good performances, but they've kind of come in like halves or like chunks of games. Like you can see what they're trying to do. 100 % and like you saw, what I was so disappointed at was kind of like how I saw West Ham perform at the end of last season. They, you know, kind of getting that draw against Chelsea and kind of like, you know, the crowd around them was like really enthusiastic. You had Pouba and kind of like Martinez and like all these like spicy flares kind of like giving you these like really like wonderful moments of like passion and energy and kind of like we can do this mentality.

43:40And then it kind of feels like this season, there's some of that in flashes, but like we've not seen it for a full consistent 90 minutes. And this felt like the first game that that kind of taken place. I've seen people diminish their good run last season to just Martinez being on form, which I just think it's really unfair. so when they do well it's not because anyone's been coached well or anyone's playing well it's just because one player's had a hot streak in front of goal when that player then isn't scoring despite creating loads of opportunities that's not on the player that's on the team being shit and there being no style I'm like you can't have it both ways like it's a bit unfair to diminish a good run to one player and then not kind of have the players take any responsibility for not scoring in the opening so yeah as you say watch the games you'll actually be able to see an awful lot more and like you say it doesn't mean they're out of the woods, but I do think they've deserved a result from a performance like that.

44:32Definitely. And I think, like you said, like they're going to take confidence for that. Because I think, you know, like we said, like the first kind of half, always good. And the second half, they tail off or vice versa. But then early in the second half, obviously Shakira Martinez getting that incredibly lovely little, like the footwork and the trickery. I couldn't work out like where she was going to go next. And then Emily Ramsey kind of hit the floor trying to kind of like figure out where the ball was going to go. And then obviously rockets it home from super close range. and that kind of felt like okay 3-0 that's so comfortable there's daylight between you and kind of like a draw situation this is absolutely great so it kind of felt like then they could kind of relax a little bit I don't think they necessarily took their foot off the gas but I just think there was like more of a they could enjoy the game a little bit more there was less pressure and you could kind of see that in the fluidity they have and then you have catcher kind of scoring it's pretty much a consolation goal right at the end of the game 87th minute from that free kick kind of hitting the far pose.

45:22It's a lovely goal. Nice bit of shithousery that also noted as well. Players kind of not giving the ball back which is quite lovely because you've got to do that in the dying minutes of the game. Why not? West time we're like, we've given games away before. We are keeping this down ball and taking our time. Every second counts. Game management is 100 % key and I think that just goes to show kind of in a way like how switched on they were like to the very few final few minutes. Like it does matter. Like you can't like Like 87 minutes, you think the game is won, but all of a sudden you've got five minutes extra time.

45:53And then all of a sudden that's an eight minute situation that you've got to deal with, like whilst being incredibly tired. So I rate things like that all day. And Claire Rafferty spoke about it in a previous episode we did with her about getting yourself out of that run and how difficult it can be to just get yourself out of the rut. And I do wonder, I appreciate Liverpool didn't beat Chelsea, but I do wonder if Liverpool getting that draw from Chelsea and West Ham getting that win can be the thing they've needed to kind of spark them to life a little bit. So even though it was a draw for Liverpool, I do think they can take a lot from it and a lot of confidence and likewise West Ham.

46:28Well, let's just talk briefly a little bit about Everton. So West Ham are now just one point behind them. They sit in the table. They've got five points, West Ham on four. They only recorded one shot on target. We've got a really nice question in from Jane Louise on Blue Sky, who's asked, do you think Soresen's time is up at Everton? He's a nice guy, but we've been so poor this season. that's a great question so it is I think if he had had his squad fully fit so far this season and they were playing like that then I'd be questioning things but they've lacked consistency in that squad all season we've seen some really nice football in patches that first half against Aston Villa they played some wonderful football they have that in them when players are fit but you know there's been consistent changes to the back line Kelly Gago's been in and out.

47:17Katchus Noyce is only just coming back. So I do think it'd be a little bit unfair to react to that yet. I appreciate they've gotten, they have money now to spend since last January, but that kind of investment takes time, you know, and I think only giving them less than a season to kind of figure that out would be a little bit unfair. So yeah, I think he needs a little bit more time. I think getting players back fit, they look a different side when Kelly Gago's in the team. now that Catius Noyce is coming back if Kelly Galga can get back from that hamstring injury having those two could be such a weapon getting a bit of consistency in the back line Courtney Brosnan's been out you know and that's nothing to do against Emily Ramsey in terms of quality of goalkeeper but in the relationships that Brosnan has with the back line for Ramsey then to come in and be like okay I've got this four in front of me next game got a different set of players in front of me next game they've changed it at halftime that's hard then for the goalkeeper to develop so I think he deserves a bit more time.

48:15I think, again, if they'd had a fitter squad throughout this season and they were getting these results, yeah, I think there'd be a little bit of concern. But I think reacting to that thus far, I know it's frustrating as an Everton fan, but I do think he deserves a little bit more. Okay, so to make matters worse then on this, they've got Chelsea on the 7th of December, they've then got Arsenal on the 13th of December, and then they've obviously got a lovely little Christmas break to kind of rejuvenate themselves, get themselves back into things and then bam, Man City, 11th of Jan, take that, nice so I don't think and again no disrespect to Everton, I don't think for Everton fans they should expect that their fortunes are going to change until at least kind of like mid to the end of Jan basically.

48:59But also what would getting rid of the manager do ahead of those games? I never think that's a good move bring in a new manager and be like cool, off you pop, go play Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City, good luck and then all of a sudden you've got an interim manager who's trying to kind of do a little bit of like trying to do what the previous manager was doing, but trying to also instill like new different styles of play mid-season. Like whilst you're also trying to juggle and navigate like the transfer window and what you need and like trying to get players to gel, I just think just see out the season, see how it goes.

49:26If it really is a dire situation at the end, then have a look at things. But yeah, I agree. A mid-season thing just isn't my bag. Like you look at what happened to like Crystal Palace and like that, that just went horribly drastically wrong. So it's a no from me. Coming up after this, not the most thrilling North London derby.

49:51So, can I just say firstly, I'm so impressed that we've touched on so many games in this episode. Because in spite of what people often think, like if we don't talk about their team, it's because we love to ignore them. which is super irritating when you say that because we've never done every single game in an episode that's never been what we do and up front so when people expect that it's a bit like come on but the fact that we've we're going to be touching on like four games here I'm very impressed this is literally our fourth game and like to be honest like these are obviously big teams but there was a there's a reluctance actually to include this in the running order because I just think you know it's so boring we've nothing more to say we both love talking yeah we absolutely love talking like we can talk the back the back legs of a donkey but at the same time when it comes to Arsenal and what they keep on doing I think there's only so many ways that you can reinvent the wheel Could we just like clip up some previous episodes and just drop it in here?

50:43Yeah we could just end the podcast now and just kind of like say revert back to podcast like 8, 7 and 6 Tottenham obviously earned a valuable point by drawing with North London rivals Arsenal to consolidate their position in the top half of the table Do you know what it's really nice I wasn't obviously able to be at the game but it was really nice seeing this game played out at Brisbane Road rather than like one of the big stadiums. It kind of gave a whole new like different grassroots-y level to like this derby that I've not seen in a while. Gosh, I hate Brisbane Road. Both teams sit on 16 points.

51:13Arsenal above Spurs only on a goal difference. Arsenal's goal difference is 10 and Spurs is minus one. Despite having more shots overall, more shots on target and more possession, Arsenal just could not find the back of the net. Where have we heard that before? I can't do this again, Rach. Rach. It's like, again, the door was left open and they were like, no, thank you. You can just close that. They also registered 41 touches in the Spurs box, whereas Spurs managed only eight in the Arsenal area. A win obviously would have taken either side to third at the table. I don't know what else to say at this point, Rach, because it just felt like it was like the same.

51:54Groundhog day. yeah of like Arsenal kind of progressing making moves getting into like really dangerous areas and then kind of like not capitalizing on the hard work and graft that they've done or like it always seems like this is the final third moment that just doesn't seem to be quite clicking um there was a free kick like late in the game might have been injury time for Arsenal and they were up in Spurs's half and they went backwards and I was like this just is it is sums up everything that Arsenal are doing at the moment and much like our assessment of their performances thus far uh Arsenal have become predictable like you just you kind of know what to expect from them now and the lacking of urgency like is just yeah you can almost sit there watching that game going they're not they're not going to get a goal like you could play another 45 minutes and it's just going to be the same they're just doing the same thing it's do you know what they may like naively I thought when Olivia Smith came on the second half, like she was so punchy, so kind of like just like a new energy, a new lease of life.

53:00I thought, actually, do you know what? I think she might do it. She's creating these chances. Like the, the opportunities that they then had, like when she came on, I thought, Christ, like this is, this is going to happen. Like, did you not feel like I was a little bit of like, maybe naivety that like, you know, she's within minutes kind of driving to the box. Like it's a lovely little cutback, but it's kind of the ball like bobbled a little bit, uncomfortable for her. Like she got too much underneath it. kind of like there was that visible frustration for her and then she gets this like cut back like seconds later like second cut back and then she has this like really good opportunity this kind of like link up play in the middle and then like lead to that shot on target yes it was straight the keeper but it kind of felt like okay there's some really clear-cut things happening here is olivia smith going to be the thing to break the dead yeah but i think by then when i hadn't been a goal i didn't i thought it's just going to be the same the same story and it's weird because Oh, they do not have any hope.

53:50When Arsenal beat Leicester, they beat them because their setup was really good. The way that they set up was really good. They exploited the channels. Leicester were really narrow. They were kind of naively ball-watching at times. And it was a really good performance from Arsenal. It's almost like they've gone, well, that worked well. Let's just do that going forwards in the Champions League, against Tottenham. And just because a plan worked against Leicester doesn't mean that same plan is going to work against other teams. like it just requires a bit more tactics a bit you know let's put Blackstinius up front and Russo in the 10 we know that worked you know and then when that doesn't work we'll take all Blackstinius and put Russo up like it's almost like a playbook that you know is going to happen and arguably just because a game plan worked against Leicester doesn't mean it's going to work against Chelsea or against Bayern Munich like I think the capitulation in in Munich during the week I think did affect them mentally.

54:41They just, you know, for me, it was a really good example, a stark difference in the belief in structure and a game plan between the two teams for me. I think Tottenham have a real belief in what Martin Ho wants, how he wants them to play, what their roles are. You know, they know they need to be defensive against Arsenal, but they have been good defensively this season. Like, I appreciate that they have conceded 12 goals, but five of them were against City and four of them were against Brighton. So they've conceded only three in the other seven games. I think they actually have one of the best records of clean sheets, if I'm not mistaken, this season.

55:19So they've become really solid defensively, and they've got some really good young talent going forward as well. And I just think, conversely, there doesn't seem to be a belief or confidence in the game plan that Arsenal are playing from the players. and that just was really quite stark, I thought, from the two teams. That's, yeah, that's probably the best way I'd summarise it. Definitely. I think there was like, definitely some additional shakiness I felt in Arsenal off the back of like the 3-2 loss in the Champions League, like you said, raised to Bayern Munich. I think when you kind of look at the way that that took place there, you know, you're leading 2-0 at halftime.

55:54And playing nice football. 100%. Really good football. Really positive moments. Like the confidence was building. Like you're actually, you know, you're taking your opportunities. You're being quite clinical. and then second half you just collapse. Felt a piece like a wet cake. Yeah and I think like when you kind of like you're starting a game like this off the back of like what's just happened in the week like there is still a hangover from like games like that where you know you could have done better and it's even worse when you're in a position that you can pick up these points like you can pick up these points and escalate yourself up the table but you don't take those opportunities and I think that has been like a reoccurring kind of narrative that keeps existing with Arsenal.

56:29So you've got them, Renee Slager is kind of suggesting that the whole reason this is kind of taking place, one of the main factors in kind of like Arsenal's lack of form is kind of the weight of expectations that could be playing a part. So she said there's different expectations off the back of last season and the success we had. That's always playing a little role in the background, probably. Arsenal have never not had expectation on them. Like I appreciate the one in Champions League last season. That was unbelievable. But they also have the biggest fan base. They have the biggest amount of resource.

56:56They have all their home games at the Emirates. Like there's all this kind of like, there's this like massive, I don't know, like the fans want more because like Arsenal as a club do so much to kind of create such amazing fan experiences. And like they are engaged with fans and they kind of show the biggest commitment to fans. And then I think when you're turning up to games and then you're seeing an Arsenal that repeatedly doesn't produce the kind of results that you want to see. Like fans want to be excited. They want positivity. They want results. They want wins. And especially where like you've got a squad that is so talented.

57:26it's not like oh you can say oh well actually you've got to do a lot of work in the January transfer window or the club's just not putting in enough investment off the pitch or they've not invested enough in like high quality players like where do you where do you look I do think there is I do think there's a degree of that I think I'm always fascinated by the amount of dislike from the Arsenal fan base for some of their own players I always find that fascinating and after every game depending on who's played and who hasn't it's always because X player didn't play is the reason they lost yeah I've seen a lot of that it's so annoying go around yeah you just need to start this player okay we started this player you still haven't won what's the reason now so there's a lot more to it than just simply start Kyra Cooney cross and that's going to solve all your problems or you need to start Chloe Kelly and that will fix everything like there is an element of that and I do find it fascinating how much kind of abuse and we've seen it from other teams it's been pointed out by a number of teams this week the abuse they've faced on social media which I just think like yeah you can be frustrated at a team but some of the shit people are saying about players and their own players is kind of mind boggling I don't think you can use recruitment as an excuse for this season but I still think recruitment is an issue for Arsenal I don't think they've done enough behind the scenes I think that's been a recurring issue over the years for Arsenal yes they have good quality players but those players have been there a long time and yes Olivia Smith million dollar a million pounds great but like what you're getting from say a Chelsea is they're bringing in Champions League winners that's the kind of for me the difference and the depth as well they'll bring in you know they'll have like 10 keepers maybe not this season but you know there is a lot more depth than quality so yeah I do think recruitment is an issue for Arsenal but again I wouldn't necessarily pin all of this on that if you know what I mean and I think sometimes areas aren't recruited that need recruitment they don't they're not being recruited to that level of quality you need players that can come in and immediately start a game at that level and know that they can perform at that level as opposed to simply just backing someone up who's that level do you know what I mean whereas Chelsea can say you know maybe when Myra Ramirez is fit that's another player missing for Chelsea but you take her off the bench Agamiva Jones comes in or Kat McCarrio comes in you know and it's just that kind of difference in in levels of quality but I think there's more than just one reason I think there's multiple issues going on at Arsenal and I think they're all maybe just coming to the for this season and there needs to be a bit of a shake-up.

59:44Well, they will be desperate to make amends in the Champions League as they face Real Madrid this week. Another big, tough opposition. Arsenal sit 11th in the table on three points having won just one of their games against Benfica while Real are on fifth on seven points. Real are yet to be beaten. Great. You took a sharp, sharp inhale then. I do think this season's Champions League and the way it's been done means we're seeing these big games and like in previous seasons losing to Lyon or losing to Bayern Munich isn't the end of the world. But because you keep playing like high level quality teams in this group stage, it's a hell of a lot easier to drop points.

1:00:23So it is interesting. They're far down the table. Even if they beat Real Madrid, they're not going to leapfrog them. But I guess at least there's that route of finishing between 5th and 12th. You go into the playoffs. So, yeah, I just think you have to also factor in that all of the teams, I know we touched on all three teams are having an absolutely storming season. There is some, and this is what the point of the new group stage was, to be playing high level matches and seeing them play these teams quite early on in the Champions League. Well, talking of quite tasty fixtures, I've just noted that Arsenal are playing Liverpool on the 6th of December, which kind of feels like a really lovely time for both teams to have met.

1:01:02kind of Liverpool on this kind of like okay we can we can do some stuff compete yeah we could do some stuff in this league and Arsenal kind of like not still finding their feet I I don't know what's going to happen here I I'm going to leave that one up to fate thank you for listening to Upfront we've got a very special episode coming to you on Thursday you might remember back back back in April that Rachel went out to Canada to chat with Calgary Wild head coach Lydia Bedford just before the start of the first ever Northern Super League season this time she was in Toronto to witness the final Vancouver Rise took on AFC Toronto and you can hear everything that happened on this Thursday's episode as well as some of the legends of Canadian football who spoke to Rach while she was there I can't wait to to hear that mate I'm really looking to that episode you've kept it quiet for me and I've not been given a sneaky peek so I will be listening in like the rest of everybody else subscribe to make sure you don't miss it you can also find us on Instagram and X slash Twitter I'm at Morgie underscore 89 Rach is at Girls on the Ball and we are at upfront underscore pod.

1:02:04You can also find us on YouTube at upfront pod. In the meantime, see you next week.

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