Man United's wild week, Sam Kerr returns, and the WSL's international boom

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1:46Rachel: Welcome to Upfront. I'm Chloe Morgan. And I'm Rachel O'Sullivan. It's been another mad week in the world of Manchester United. Of course, losing in the Champions League, losing their boots, more or less losing their minds, and then flying home and battering London City Lionesses to finish the weekend top of the WSL table. Sam Kerr has made her long-awaited return. And of course, she bloody scored. so we can only assume that this is the start of her revenge tour against Upfront after our comments last week. Our comments? Someone said some stuff. We just took the pressure off. And finally, we're taking a closer look at the WSL's growth overseas, particularly in the States.

2:23Rachel: Are we seeing the start of a new international era for the league? Rach and I are here to give our thoughts on that and so much more.

2:37Chloe: are you croaky or are you just like shouting into your mic no it's my new sexy voice that

2:41Rachel: i'm employing for podcast recordings on tuesdays it's your podcast voice yes it is yeah um i was told by my partner that uh i need to i need to actually keep her awake um so yeah i know she gets quite bored of my voice differently yeah many different ways to do that like that nothing that is a PG show it's Tuesday morning you weirdo you said it moving swiftly on moments of the weekend Rach go for it

3:06Chloe: I've got two go on the first one is Tanberg's goal yep and we were going to mention the fact that Everton had their first game at Goodison Park which was super but I'm sorry the best part of that day was her goal yeah absolute ridiculous worldy the audacity to shoot from there the audacity the audacity but also the quick thinking because it was a you know it was Bethany England's pressure the ball just popped out like there was so little time to think and she snapped got not only the accuracy but the power perfect shot just high enough to keep it out of Courtney Brosnan's kind of chasing hands and I just thought what a goal unbelievable goal my second one I didn't give you permission to do two you did because I said I was doing two and you said okay go ahead roll the tapes back did I say that she did that's crazy the second one is just something I noticed at West Ham Arsenal it's a set up which is the reason I noticed it is because West Ham had to kick off numerous times from the centre circle, conceding so many goals, is that it reminded me a bit of rugby.

4:04Chloe: They justify themselves to the right. Everyone seems to all line up on the line and set on the right side of the pitch, which then forces Arsenal everyone over to the left. And obviously the goal is to send the ball long and try and win possession back deep in Arsenal's half. But it just made me, I was expecting someone to lift Katie McCabe, much like they do in the rugby, do you know that kind of thing?

4:23Rachel: I was like... It's hoisted by the shorts.

4:24Chloe: Yeah, I'm just expecting that because it just seemed so, I was one side of the pitch. I was like, where the fuck is everybody? Oh, they're all over there. Everyone's over there. It was just a really funny, like obvious thing they were doing. And it just made me think, why has nobody lifted McCabe? It's one way of getting the ball.

4:38Rachel: 100%. I think she should be lifted most matches, to be honest. She's a fan favourite, a big hero. Yeah, I think there's a lot of people who would line up to do that, to be fair. That should be one of the Arsenal experiences that you can get after the games as part of your lucky ballot. You get to lift McCabe. There we go. We've got McCabe, literally. Okay, in terms of my moment of the weekend there was I thought this weekend was quite a tasty one for goal of the month contenders yeah like you said there I would go with the Jade Riviera goal I thought that was absolute screamer audacious as well absolute screamer like solo effort slams it home tight thought she was kind of going across she was going to cut the ball back and then just goes for it she was like she like put a toe through it yeah I was like fair play to you I'd love to see what the speed the ball speed of that was because it hit the net it was such a force I thought it was going to go through and hit the majority of the Manchester United fans.

5:29Rachel: It was crazy. Like the atmosphere at Hayes Lane as well. And we're going to talk about this game in a second. But my God, I used to play at Hayes Lane. We used to get, why are you smirking? Because I know where this is going. We used to get one man and his dog. And it was my dad. And girls in the ball. And girls in the ball, yeah. He's about four people down there who were only there literally for beers because it was one of the closest pubs in the area. But to see it rams like that, I was like, I didn't even understand how Hayes Lane could look.

5:53Chloe: Yeah, do you know what was a shame? full of fans because obviously they're doing up the one side of the stadium it was a shame then that the gantry was on the opposite side because it was just shooting an empty stadium and actually the rest of the ground was pretty jam packed

6:05Rachel: absolutely loaded what I'd give to be playing in the stadium my first season with Palace it's a good base it's a good base yeah my first season with Palace was during the Covid era and you couldn't have fans at games he's just an excuse the second season we had one man and his dog the first season there was no one it was just staff do you remember when they used to play the fan noises as well through the FA player and it was just like way way and you just have that every yeah we didn't even have that anyway moving swiftly on let's get stuck into Manchester United cruising to a storming 5-1 win away at London City Lionesses at Hayes Lane former Man United player Nikita Paris pulled back a consolation goal her first for London City the first time goal gorgeous gorgeous first goal in you know in play yeah in open play which is really lovely especially against a top team as well a former team Man United are now top of the league they've scored nine in their opening two games and have conceded only once obviously what I don't want to do is obviously have the podcast be a running commentary of London City Lioness's first season in the WSL obviously there's been so much narrative around what they're going to achieve obviously the big transfer window Michelle Kang generates her own noise and interest anyway but also the fact that it's an independent club and no one really knows how it's all going to gel together and work everyone finds it fascinating week to week so let's get stuck into london city lionesses let's let's um obviously it's been a bit of a tough start it's been a baptism of fire currently sitting bottom of the table with seven a minus seven goal difference um but they have had a really difficult first couple of games um it's

7:45Chloe: not been easy they have i think still put in quite a good account of themselves the signs are there you know and I remember saying this a couple of times maybe not that often about Crystal Palace but there were times where they were in games and you felt they don't look out of place and I think you could say the same for London City Lionesses I think the concern would be how they've conceded goals in quick succession in both games how they conceded so quickly after half time against Manchester United they're the little things where you're like we should be able to deal with that we've enough experience in this squad to be able to not switch off in key moments and not kind of fall foul to those kind of almost tropes of the teams that are coming up and when they concede so I think there'll be areas that they'll want to look to tighten up because you look at the Arsenal result two goals very quickly, it could have been a different scoreline, you know you think 2-1 wouldn't have looked so bad or maybe 3-1 against United wouldn't have looked so bad but actually those very quick goals to be conceding they need to nip that in the bud quickly.

8:45Chloe: I do think again up against a Manchester United who probably frustrated and I think needed a nice, comfortable win, a good scoreline to kind of get their confidence back a little bit. And I think that was important for them. I think the depth that they faced, you know, United have up front, I think they've got a real depth. Because I saw the line-up and I thought, ooh, resting tournament, that's interesting. They must have one eye on the Champions League fixture, you know. But sure, Melvin Mallard is on absolute fire at the moment.

9:16Rachel: What I was going to say, I think London City also have suffered from a little bit of a lack of luck oh my god they should have scored my god two or three 100 % and like fair play to Fallon Tullis Joyce I think in the first 20 minutes there was a couple of goal line kind of scrappy clearances or just directly at her that's just gonna say and I think that's the kind of I don't know like they're still getting those chances they're creating goal scoring moments but it's just not quite it's that last final little bit

9:40Chloe: so there was like moments of like Christ they could really get themselves which is a positive of thing to look at it was what one nil maybe two nil at the time and you know they were creating there was a lot of action in the first half in united's box for london city and 100 they were getting set pieces they were getting i think that was it the threateningness from the set pieces i

9:58Rachel: think was one of the things i was thinking a lot of the wsl clubs need to like pick up on the fact that they are creating a lot of chances through balls being whipped in through those corners through the deep and the deep um kickoff um free kicks right i don't used to play

10:14Chloe: I used to play

10:15Rachel: but I also do think they were quite unlucky in terms of the first goal I'm not entirely convinced that was a penalty complete opposite end to me I've watched that a couple of times I think the ref thought it was a push in the back I don't think it looked quite light they were both shoulder to shoulder and I think that was like not a nail in the coffin but I think it created it's a lot to kind of come back from in that conceding within two minutes is pretty crazy and then obviously you've got the Riviera solo effort in the, what was that, the 32nd minute, I think. Yeah, it's unreal. But I do think there were moments in the game where Manchester United just picked them apart in the middle of the field.

10:50Rachel: It felt like there was this kind of like ticky-tacky football and London City Lionesses were just struggling to play catch up. So yeah, but I do think some very promising moments there,

10:59Chloe: but at the same time, you know, let's give them... A baptism of fire, I think. Yeah, let's... But equally understanding who they're up against and, you know, I think that is important context. They've had a difficult first couple of games. They play Everton next, but then I think they face City maybe. So at least they're getting them out of the way early doors. And then ideally, you know, you tell me when you're playing against top teams, it kind of forces you to improve quickly, right? And it forces you to make decisions quicker, which will only benefit them as they go on and start playing teams, you know, further down the table.

11:29Chloe: They should be a bit sharper and potentially start actually putting those balls in the back of the net and maybe coming away with points.

11:34Rachel: I think the difference with London City and Ironesses is that they are largely made up of a squad of WSL or elite. players whereas in like the teams that have come up from promotion you still have those um players who have only been championship players who are still learning the ropes who are still learning that the pace of the game is quickens like still getting to know the sort of styles and profiles of the players in the WSL so I think they do have a they do have a little bit of an advantage but they still all haven't played together but I was gonna say they're brand new we will see um but let's change track a little bit let's talk about Man United because obviously two WSL performances so far really really strong start for them in the league however champions league different story last thursday um i mean having dominated the first leg of their third round qualifying game in bergen against sk bran they lost one nil after conceding in the 76th minute and obviously they had loads and loads of chances to put that game to bed and by all accounts you know a fairly dominant performance from them they're gonna come away from that super super disappointed

12:31Chloe: Yeah and you know you have to put in that this was a big game for Brand. They had a record crowd there. Then of course United had the disruption of the boot debacle and I feel like if that perhaps had been noticed a little bit earlier it may not have. And they're not using the boots as an excuse. They can't really. Although I do wonder if it was the shooting boots they left on the plane. but they'll be frustrated that they weren't able to put a game like that to bed. I think the main thing is it is one goal. And I think going back to LSV, having come off the back of scoring nine goals in the league is exactly the kind of thing you want, like that you need to know that your forwards are on fire, that they're, you know, even your defenders are bloody scoring.

13:14Chloe: So that will be a big boost for them. I think we touched on that back last season. I think maybe kind of it was Arsenal, of course, who were struggling in the Champions League at the time. and they had that moment where they had an in-between WSL game in between fixtures and I remember thinking, you need a game where you score lots of goals. I think they did that. It was when they played, perhaps it was Real Madrid maybe and they had a game in the middle where they need, I think they probably scored about four goals as they so love to do with the Emirates and I think a similar thing for Manchester United is they'll draw on that performance, they'll draw on that firepower and they've got the fact that both Turland and Malheur are playing so well.

13:49Chloe: So that will be key. my concern for them is defensive depth and I'm worried about Millie Turner it looked like a pretty significant injury so that's an area that should they progress into the group stages of the Champions League would be a concern in terms of managing to sustain like good performances week in week out playing three games in a week multiple times throughout the first part of the season managing that with the depth and the squad is might be tricky but they won't be looking at that

14:16Rachel: now I think the pressure is definitely on like this is a Manchester United squad you spend so much time and effort in the season before getting that spot getting one of those three elusive places in the Champions League and playing European football there's so many you know incredible players in Manchester United who will want to go far in the competition coming out at this stage and not really get into grips with like the competition in the latter stages like it would just be so disappointing but when you look at kind of I know we talked about Manchester United and how much of a fucking shit show they are behind the scenes like there's context to that but it just feels like it'd still be a disappointment

14:48Chloe: if they don't progress it would be disappointing they should win this game I think the expectation is they should win this game I think there's a nice collectiveness in that team and they really fight for each other they have each other's backs yeah and I think they'll draw on that like you know they'll be going into that game absolutely gunning to get the victory they're at home they'll more than likely have a pretty good noisy crowd at LSV as well so you know while the pressure is on them I think they'll they'll draw on the confidence of their WSL games because realistically you should be using that momentum um in those moments and it's something Skinner loves to talk about as experience and key moments and all that kind of thing so the fact that their most recent experience is scoring lots of goals they really have to draw on that well they

15:29Rachel: now need to win the returning game in Manchester she said on Thursday by at least two goals to go through to the league phase of the competition what's difficult now is they've got brand coming

15:37Chloe: up but then they know on the horizon is Arsenal and it's like don't think about Arsenal just think about Brandt and that's a new thing for their coaching staff to have to deal with is is just the single game focus which can always be tricky because in the back of their minds the staff's minds they're like how do we manage the squad how do we make sure we're in the best position to win these games that are coming up without the players feeling like we're thinking too far in the future so it's yeah it's an interesting experience for them to go through this season and should they get through against Bran they'll have a whole load of new things to have to experience once they get into the group stages.

16:08Rachel: Well one of the things I would say is that the stars priority should definitely be finding the boots I would say. I think in terms of preparation and kind of going into this game I've heard that boots can be quite key. Just to explain a little bit about what happened if you haven't already seen the absolute shit show in the papers this week. 15 pairs of boots and 20 pairs of shin guards were lost en route to the game. I'm not making this up this is not april falls and at the time of recording have still not been found the missing boots weren't noticed until the day of the game because man united to train at carrington before traveling to norway less than three hours before kickoff club staff had to go to torshof sport a shop in bergen to spend four grand on replacement boots and shin guards the best thing about this story is oliver bonn who was working at the shop at the time said we are one of the biggest sports shops in the city but still not used to delivering 15 pairs of elite boots at the same time some of them had to go up half a size but i think they're okay with it it was between that or not playing the owner andrew gullard added maybe we should have told them we only have boots with no studs to help the local team camaraderie at its finest i love the fact

17:18Chloe: that they came out to speak to the media about it i i just find like i've worked great journalism Yeah, I've worked in a running shop before. And the idea of having like more than three pairs of the same size, maybe they are the biggest shop in Bergen. So perhaps they get, they have a very, you know, high amount of people buying football boots. I don't know. But this idea that you'd have more than say three or four pairs of a shoe in the same size is so unlikely. And I imagine a lot of the players probably have similar size feet. Does anyone have a picture of the boots they use? Like what boots were they?

17:49Chloe: Why am I imagining like clogs or big canal boats with like socks stuffed down the front? Do you know what I mean? Imagine how, boom, not only have we lost your boots, the boots we've gotten you are the wrong size. Good luck. Also, who do you decide to give the boots to? Who do you prioritise? Do you make sure like your strikers have boots that fit or?

18:04Rachel: But it's almost Sunday league to like come off. Let's say you want to start an 11, you've come off and you've got to like take your boots off and give it to the next player coming on. It's like a tag team. Like it's just the ridiculousness of that. Who else is a size five? But you can only sub like for like because there's no point in subbing a six for a four, is there? No. The whole situation is absolute madness. And 4K, I mean, Man United Bowl accounts are struggling for finances. So they're going to have to sell someone now in the January transfer window to replace the money spent on boots and shin guards.

18:33Rachel: That's just also a thought about that. And also the commercial conflict that it poses for players who do have boot deals, them having to play in Norwegian clogs, not ideal.

18:43Chloe: What I enjoyed was... I'm raising the big points here, obviously. The way they were basically like, and the club agreed that we could replace the boots and i was like of course they've what do you mean they agreed of course they have to give them friggin boots you've lost the boots flip flops you're not getting them well done for doing that like that's the absolute no i'm sorry you've got a maximum spend of 500 pounds on the club credit card you can only buy three boots and

19:04Rachel: like that's it like i am foreshadowing a nike advert in which they do something funny around replacing the boots just saying it's an adi club it's there for you nike nike it's an open door just give you know

19:17Chloe: do you know what creative just do it

19:18Rachel: yeah

19:22Chloe: alright sorry

19:23Rachel: let's high five that one

19:24Chloe: sometimes we make really good jokes that are for the joke journal right and we have to high five get back to the serious stuff

19:29Rachel: coming up after this Sam Kerr returns

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20:24Rachel: But if you're not hydrated, you're already playing catch-up. So we keep a stash of Liquid IV in our studio. One stick mixed into 16 ounces of water is clinically demonstrated to hydrate faster than water alone with three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight vitamins and nutrients. Whether you're traveling, exercising, or podcasting, the best business news ever, Liquid IV makes it easy to stay hydrated wherever life takes you. So shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV hydration. That goes wherever life takes you. Hi, this is Kim and Penn Holderness from the Laugh Lines podcast.

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21:48Rachel: she's back she's absolutely back you think that she would have new parents sleepiness bags under her eyes a little bit tired from pushing the pram around you know dealing with new parent duties you know midnight nappy changes not sam kerr not sam kerr we can multitask us woman you're joking we can be top footballers and mothers that's crazy we've only just got the kitchen that's unbelievable from us uh marked her long-awaited Chelsea return with a goal as the Blues beat Aston Villa 3-1 at Villa Park I mean that was a that was a right like the writing was

22:25Chloe: on the wall do you know that kind of way I still think and after our conversation last week I actually think Chloe it's probably down to us because what we did last week was we took the pressure off Sam Kerr and we said you know what you don't we don't need to pile the pressure on her we know she's an absolute like unbelievable goal scorer but you can take your time gal like Chelsea have got this covered if you don't immediately come back and start banging in the goals but sure fuck it who doesn't love competition she's set the button she saw what everyone else

22:51Rachel: is doing and gone I'll have some of that she saw Aggie Bebe Jones she saw Alyssa Thompson coming in these two youngsters nipping at people's heels and she was like it has been 637 days since I last played i haven't played under sonia i don't know who's in the squad anymore after squad i'm a little bit tired because of you know child mom life hold my fucking baby bottle here she comes i honestly i mean she came on was it 75th minute bringing with her like the experience the expertise the passion the dedication that everything that fans wanted to see i mean rachel what was it like like hearing the roar of fans go absolutely mental for her she came on the pitch like first off before

23:30Chloe: even get stuck into a performance it's one of those moments where you see comments from people I think someone commented on our Instagram going um and you know as an Aston Villa fan I could have done without her scoring against us but equally to see her back on the pitch is is brilliant and it's though it's one of those like transcends clubs when when players like that after a tough injury journey get back people are delighted to see it I think less delighted to see her when they she comes up against your side um but I also think what's really important and it's something I think I've noticed across a number of teams so far this season is shaking off that first goal like you're seeing it with some players you look at maybe a Bunny Shaw who managed to do it this weekend, Miedema she just needs one to kind of shake off that first goal back after injury in the league I appreciate they've probably scored in them they have scored in pre-season but Sam Kerr like I think we maybe underestimate how much of an impact that will have for her to get the first goal out of the way immediately she doesn't need to think about that anymore that's a mental one yeah she doesn't need to think oh god I have to come on now and like no don't do I need to make a difference but there's so many other players in that position that can score goals and like I'm expected to score goals gone she doesn't need to think about that at all she's got the first goal back and I just think that's massive kind of for her mentally to just go yeah still got it and it was her 100th goal for Chelsea like the narrative the storyline like you'd read that in a book and be like as if that would happen in real life do you know that kind of way?

24:56Rachel: do you know what I'd be absolutely raging if I was Alyssa Thompson. I'd be thinking, this was my headline. This was my headline this weekend. I am one of the most expensive players in the WSL. I'm making my debut. This weekend's about me. Yeah. It's mine, actually. Sam Kerr comes along and says, absolutely bloody no chance. I would be low-key a little bit raging. And I think not just the goal, though, it was the immediate impact that she had as soon as she entered the field. I mean, she could have had pretty much two assists, I'd say.

25:26Chloe: The comms were giving her such shit for not taking an opportunity where she was in front to goal. A savage. And instead she sent it back to Aggie Beaver Jones. I'm like, give her a minute. This is her first touch. Sorry her hips aren't quite immediately opening up to take that shot straight away. It's been 637 days. How unselfish is that? Yeah, love that from her.

25:47Rachel: Yeah, I really, really rate that. And I think there was that Macario effort on goal saved by Roebuck. Then you had the driven ball in the crossbar strike from Cuthbert. two almost goals there that were kind of set up by things that Sam Kerr

25:58Chloe: had done in the lead up to those but also for her she'd go do you know what I'm going to give it to the player who scores in 74 % of her games than me who's not been back for 600 odd days and I respect that trust but then equally you know she won't care what kind of goal it was it was scrappy it was sloppy it was a goal that's all that matters it wasn't the sexiest goal her instincts are still there but it doesn't matter

26:18Rachel: it was a goal it was an impactful goal as well because it is 100th goal for the club she is now 16 behind Frank Kirby's record as all-time club

26:28Chloe: scorer it's funny because obviously she was on 99 goals for 637 days or something do you know what I mean I think it was 634 when you include her last game because I think 637 was WSL but sitting on 99 goals and I remember asking Miedema about scoring her 100th goal in the Euros and she was like well I've been sat on 99 for the last three years like having been injured for so long we all knew it was coming we all knew it was going to happen at some point. So for both of them to get it at key moments must be really nice because your 100th goal is special. But imagine having it, you know, your return from injury after that long.

27:04Chloe: It's such a lovely kind of, I don't know, it's wholesome.

27:07Rachel: Well, she had some really beautiful words after the game. She said, it feels good. I'm really happy, but feel a lot of relief. Like, as you said, Rach, it's been a long journey and I'm glad it's over. It means everything to score a 100th goal for the club. When I signed for Chelsea, I never thought I would score 100 goals. That's crazy. Everyone else did. uh sonia bonpasta said and this i found this a little bit funny she doesn't like being in front of everyone and getting the limelight but she really deserves it i was like sam same person same same aussie same big personality backflips punches you know uh you know people who run to

27:39Chloe: the pitch that kind of thing that vibe just to clarify she did not punch someone who ran onto the pitch no it's like it's more of a clothesline wasn't it really a shoulder barge which was

27:46Rachel: deserved because they did ruin the safety of everyone involved so i back it that's not don't come at me for that. I don't back it. I don't back a soul. Anyway, moving swiftly on. Well, we had a really lovely question in from Shalvi on Instagram who asked, will Sam Kerr's return draw larger crowds at Stamford Bridge in the future?

28:03Chloe: I don't. I mean, no. I don't think that comes from one player. I mean, Chelsea are an absolute star-studded stacked squad. And it is, Stamford Bridge, filling that up is something that still needs work. It's not just going to work because of players, I think. I'm not sure we're going to see some massive spike in attendance because of Sam I do think though Sam Kerr creating

28:25Rachel: magic moments will draw crowds to Stamford Bridge like I do look at kind of like the we said this in the podcast I think previously about the relationship that fans have with players as opposed to individual clubs and I think Sam Kerr like there's so she has such a loyal fan base I do think it could encourage people to get back behind it so do I think it's going to be largely different so I think we might have a few hundred sell out Stamford Bridge all of a sudden for every single game absolutely not but I do think there is a Sam Kerr contingent that will start to come back now I don't think we're going to see a marked increase just because of that personally we'll wait and see okay we will wait and see uh Chelsea's opening goal was against the run of play I feel Villa had so many chances do we think Villa will feel a little bit hard done by because 100 % bloody yes um goal at 22 minutes uh some really really super good chances from Aston Villa but just didn't feel like they could really convert i mean what were your thoughts on this because it kind of felt really frustrating and it was amazing to see how much aston villa were actually taking the game to chelsea and causing them problems especially the chelsea defense at points they

29:32Chloe: looked a little bit lost all over the place i think first half aston villa were in control of the game i thought they set up really well i thought the three at the back worked very well for them it allowed them to overlap on the wings they were using the width so well um and chelsea just really struggled with it. Numerous times, Ebony Salmon was sending balls out wide to Chastity Grant, and every time she was free, Kirstie Hanson was causing damage, they were cutting inside, you know, splitting defense. I just thought the setup was really tactically very well executed to the point of creating opportunities.

30:06Chloe: That kind of key decision-making in key moments, that kind of hesitation at times, maybe taking an extra touch, is what killed Villa because arguably they could have gone in three or four nil up and I think they'll be absolutely raging because that way of playing against a team like Chelsea with the depth like Chelsea is so hard to do across 90 minutes and if you're not capitalizing on those opportunities in the first half you're going to have what happened to them where second half they're starting to taper a little bit their substitutes arguably could help them continue the style to a degree but Chelsea's substitutes allowed them to elevate their performance even further and I think when you match those two things together at Chelsea you're going to get better and Aston Villa start to taper off and you've got a team that are going to take their opportunities like Aki Beaver-Jones as you said scoring against the run of play great work from Kat Macario but equally poor decision making by Deslandes not to come out to meet it's again it's those moments those hesitations where you know it's the turning point I think for these teams so yeah I think Chelsea do what Chelsea do capitalized on opportunities saw the issues in the first half changed it Aaron Cuthbert coming on made a massive difference Alyssa Thompson made a massive difference um and then of course Sam Kerr when she did come on just that depth that quality um and that decision making and key moments is you know absolutely what won in the game what I really

31:31Rachel: loved about Aston Villa's performance is obviously they went down within the first 22 minutes and I think I there was a little bit of criticism that I did have about Ellie Roebuck and kind of like misjudging what happened but it kind of felt like there was a deflection it was a deflection like over the top of her and Aggie Beaver Jones obviously had the kind of well fairly easy header into an open goal

31:47Chloe: and there was criticism of Anna Patton for not picking up Aggie Beaver Jones but the problem was the flight of the ball was coming in a completely different direction which Patton was coming to meet then it took the deflection and suddenly the ball's in a completely different area so I think the defensive issues was the not engaging with McCary or higher up the pitch that's where I think they lost it

32:06Rachel: but I do think the main point for me the takeaway from that first goal was the resilience that Aston Villa showed into like believing that they were going to get that equaliser. That's what I absolutely love seeing. I mean, and like you said, Rach, I think they were probably disadvantaged by taking too many touches. Lo and behold, you've got Emily Salmon, first time strike from a cutback, just knows exactly where the goal is. I can kind of see that Hannah Hampton's probably a little bit out of position. Not much you can do about that despite, but another great contender for goal of the month. Yeah.

32:37Rachel: and then you look at kind of like the Hanson effort just before half time kind of picking up the ball driving at them

32:42Chloe: there was the defensive sloppiness I think it was Nat Bjorn hospital pass back I think Ebony Salmon cut in with that again maybe too many touches there was an opportunity where Hannah Hampton came out of a goal really quickly and I think was higher up in her box because they were playing out from the back which I thought Villa were doing a very good job of pressing they were pressing as a unit and they were all committed to it so it wasn't just one player or two players they were committing together and I just think it was so impactful made Chelsea really think but yeah again Hannah Hampton showing her her quality that she was there quickly to close down other opportunities so there are numerous moments and I think what what Ebony Salmon I should say needs to learn from that first goal is sometimes you just don't need to think you just need to trust your instincts and that's what happens when you do that and I think maybe a little bit more of that throughout the game could have seen Aston Villa with a couple more goals in the first half

33:35Rachel: I think I mean the overarching thing from this is that it feels like a super positive result for Aston Villa it's a game where the result doesn't reflect like what actually happened in the game and how close

33:44Chloe: that was for Chelsea that happens we're seeing more of that West like West Ham Arsenal doesn't feel like a 5-1 like I don't feel like Arsenal dominated 90 minutes West Ham set up very very well against them in the first half Brighton for example against Manchester City you look at the result and think yeah City won that makes sense actually Brighton played very very well so tactically teams are definitely improving maybe not something we dig into enough because we talk about quality of players but tactically the game is improving we sorted the euros i touched on this on my podcast but like we're seeing that understanding of how to set up against top quality teams the next step is sustaining that for 90 minutes well it's very baffling for me

34:24Rachel: that aston villa are currently sitting with just one point um after the last couple of games like it doesn't feel like that is that reflects where they are and the performances they're put in we do have obviously I mean the next three fixtures they've got Liverpool home Arsenal away Leicester home as well really good opportunities there to kind of pick up points really excited actually for the Villa Arsenal listen last time they played they battered them yeah I think that's the one that I'm most excited for out of those

34:48Chloe: and I think what we're seeing from Arsenal is slow to start slow to react to how a team is set up and I think and Aston Villa are taking the game to teams yeah but if Aston Villa can capitalise on a slow start from Arsenal for example they could find themselves in a similar position where they're up early on. So that's the, they're all the things they're going to learn from each game. They're going to learn. And I think for Villa, who kind of found a rhythm at the end of the season, they needed to get a game under their belt to be like, oh yeah, we do know what we're doing. Right, we're fine. And you know, you saw that I think against Chelsea is just the next step is being clinical.

35:20Rachel: Oh, positive start for Villa. Let's see where they land after those next three fixtures. Coming up after this, we take a closer look at the WSL's international boom.

35:36Rachel: The WSL is obviously at a very important juncture right now. Coming off the back of another Euros victory for the Lionesses, obviously the league is at the start of its biggest ever domestic TV rights agreement with Sky and the BBC. And in 2024, Barclays signed the biggest sponsorship deal in the history of women's football in the UK. Obviously, this is all being overseen by the WPLL, taken over from the FA. first time obviously the leagues the top two leagues being run by an independent company we thought it was quite a nice opportunity to take stock of what the WPLL has done. WSL football please I don't, I can't I can't, I'm already having to get my head around WSL 2 for the championship I'm done with the acronyms I'm staying old school and I'm calling it what it is.

36:22Rachel: We're not calling you your actual name Yeah, basically that but obviously it does feel like the WSL is thriving internationally right now I've had a lot of conversations about, you know, where the WSL sits in comparison to the NWSL has always been seen as a kind of bit of a rivalry between the two countries. Whose league is better commercially, talent, performances, you know, the structure of the teams. Really lovely stats that the WSL league's global audience went from 26 percent of overall viewers in 2021-22 to 62 percent by the end of 23-24. What do we think is the key behind this? in fact the you know the WSL audience growing so much um you know there's been so much kind of talk around the impact of YouTube putting the games on a channel where it's easily accessible you have a great viewer journey you don't have all the sign in click here oh my god the sign in issues with the with the FA player you don't have all the kind of like I don't know dodgy interference of the FA player the quality of the products the quality of the viewing product is a lot higher obviously this time you're going to have a youtube showing um some of the wsl2 games and some of the wsl games that aren't already covered by bbc and sky so the platform is still there but maybe used less than it was last year but a good opportunity for the championship to get a lot

37:38Chloe: more coverage i wouldn't be surprised if we see a continuation of you know high youtube figures if games are all being put on at the same time and they're all being put on on sky because with respect to Sky and as great as the multi-view thing is, I suppose, I went and say recorded games the other day. Liverpool, Leicester, brilliant, press record, went to watch it back. It was Chelsea Aston Villa, which they had on another channel because the only way to watch the game was to go into the multi-view setup and select the game. So you can't even like go in and record the game I wanted to record.

38:09Chloe: Then you have to wait until it comes out on YouTube to actually get to watch it back because unlike BBC, you can't go in and watch it back in the same way. So, you know, YouTube is still going to be a hugely important place for people to not just outside of the UK but within the UK to see the games that haven't been able to watch because all the games pretty

38:28Rachel: much are now being played at 12 o 'clock well I think the big part of YouTube though is it is also free and I think what we're starting to see now is this kind of the paywall come in obviously there's a paywall on Sky there's obviously not a paywall on the BBC you've got DAZN who kind of introduced the paywall for the Champions League games and then kind of retracted that and decided not to put them behind a paywall but it could be imminent that they do that again at some point if it becomes you know commercially viable to do that at some stage we've then just this morning kind of received an announcement that disney plus is going to be showing uh the champions league just the draw the live draw not the fixtures as far as we're aware but it's another platform in which you do have a women's football product that is going to be put behind a paywall amazon are obviously making massive moves in the men's games kind of put a paywall behind that so it kind of feels like there is this like creeping of which is good in a way because you want to commercialize the game and you want to make sure there's investment going into the game but also we are still a grown audience and having multiple platforms where you're paying 35 quid for now tv or you know sky and then you're paying another 15 quid for an amazon subscription and another 20 quid for a disney plus subscription just to access women's football it might become too high a bar for where we are in terms of our women's football audience at the moment yeah and it's that's my

39:38Chloe: concerned it's finding the balance of when to make that switch because everything is decided on audience numbers and audience numbers and viewer numbers get scrutinized to the nth degree and you know there was an article about how viewership has dropped 35 percent or whatever on tv and you're like well that's probably because more games are now behind a paywall so of course you're going to have a drop in viewership i would expect there might be more games on tv technically but if they're sat on iplayer which i guess you can access but maybe not as easy as if you're watching tv or if it's on a behind a paywall you know you're probably going to see a dip in in numbers that's why the youtube access is so important so it's it's that balance of growing that audience to a point where you feel you can get them to pay for things and i think at the moment we're maybe doing that a bit early we saw with disown i thought they did that way too early and i think what annoyed people is for so long that not for so long but they'd say they weren't going to do that and then they did it and then they all did it and it just it doesn't look great um i think look it's it's great that so many games are getting the broadcast standard of production which i think is what i'd argue is that should be the main focus at the moment from the wsl oh i'm gonna miss all those

40:48Rachel: rainy cam lenses and the wiping the ball comes too close to the where the camera you go down go down but you can't really see the edge of the pitch that's correct and feels a bit like you're on

40:58Chloe: the old school on a boat um no i don't think anybody's gonna miss the fa player or single cam games but for me I think they need to be a bit better at prioritizing what is expected from them and there is a bit of an element of them trying to do everything trying to talk to the to Gen Z trying to do all cool fun content which I understand but ultimately what people are looking for from WSL is getting games broadcast at top quality that is their bread and butter and that is the thing that needs to be focused on first and foremost and for me the rest comes after once you've got that done because you know people not being able to access the first 15 minutes of the first game of the season you're not gonna be able to turn around and go well we did this great TikTok with some players so like why don't you watch that this is what people come to you for right and I think sometimes clubs federations a little bit guilty of this too they they want to have all the best stuff for them which I understand but ultimately if you're going to grow the game you need stories and you need content to be shared by other people who have access to different audiences who maybe aren't warm and receptive to women's football already and that's how you grow your audience and I think for the WSL you need to get your broadcast stuff bread and butter done you know without the glitches without you know not being able to see some things without things switching off or whatever it might be that's what needs to be the focus rather than and then you can do the other stuff which I appreciate is important but for me the most important thing is you are offering people the game to watch and it needs to be easy to access

42:31Rachel: and done well well just to add context to that so the international broadcast deals for the WSL were announced on the 4th of September and the deals were facilitated in partnership with the global sports marketing agency IMG who's been appointed the WSL football sorry WSL football's exclusive international media rights representative for its leagues in a new multi-year partnership the announcement was widely well received um but what people were obviously very much um a little bit alarmed about was the fact that the WSL's agreement with ESPN plus wasn't announced until after the Chelsea versus Man City game the Athletics Astley Polite recently did a really great piece about the WSL's growth in the US because we are already seeing like the stats come out about how you know quickly those audiences in the US are kind of translating into our audiences too so North American audiences jumped 22 % compared to the 23-24 season um yeah I mean disappointing it felt like a real kind of missed opportunity to get in there quickly and kind of prioritize one of the biggest audiences for W for the WSL and I'm right in thinking they

43:34Chloe: essentially just extended a deal that already existed yes so again already in place again why did that take so long that's where I'm a bit like your bread and butter are your broadcast that needs to be the main focus for me anyway you know maybe they'll tell me different and that their content is just as important and it is important but you know ultimately the football should be the folk the main focus and you know to as well then mess up your first game I think 15 minutes of it people couldn't view like that's disappointing um yeah I just think getting the thing over the line the day before the season starts and then not announcing it you know I do think generally there was a bit of a lack of uh capitalizing on the euros more proactively i think it was very much a a bit reactive or a bit you know assuming we're going to see an impact from the euros without kind of really really throwing everything at it and i think more could have been done around the build-up of the opening game including outside of the uk if the audience is so big internationally how are you not getting that up and running the other side to that if

44:42Rachel: i'm going to try and play devil's advocate and maybe could provide some kind of understanding of why it was done so late is that yes the wsl football have had a lot of things to deal with in terms of commercial rights they've obviously made quite impressive moves in terms of raising the standards we've seen a minimum salary cap come in there's a lot of things that they've been doing we've been in multiple meetings about the you know the fixtures and the schedules and how difficult that all is um yeah they obviously have been doing a lot they've been doing the rebrand it's you know they've been trying to tie up all these big i would say there was a bigger noise

45:11Chloe: around the rebrand than there was around the beginning of the season yeah and that went down like a bucket of wet tick yeah whatever it's called cold sick that's it it went um it went

45:21Rachel: it happened it happened um but then they've obviously wrapped up you know sky they've wrapped up barclays we've seen the big british gas energy supply we've had the wrapping up of the deal with talk sport as well we can't say they haven't the commercial team haven't been bloody busy for sure

45:35Chloe: i i wouldn't say that i would say the sky and bbc thing happened already before the the u.s thing and again it's a an existing partnership for sure so still unbelievable to extend it and to be having so much coverage but it was it's not like you were going in cold to someone and i would also like to think that perhaps those negotiating the british gas deal are a different team to maybe those dealing with broadcast i could be wrong um it maybe it's all one team doing everything but again then that's something you just need to look at how can multiple things be addressed at the same time and again it's about prioritizing isn't it like around the content and all of that kind of

46:11Rachel: vibe the devil's advocate to that is obviously they've been doing a lot of work around their audience data trying to find out who's who's who's watching who's tuning in where they're kind of you know big growth areas are the us obviously is one of them but at the same time this kind of next gen fan and where their loyalties lie and kind of growing that fan base and you know you were talking then about you know how do we appeal to a gen z audience and tiktok is obviously big dog for that i know nothing about tiktok because i'm too fucking old but like putting all these like you know the player content out that does so well for the club channels i can understand why the wsl football wpl whatever i've been trying to focus on that to kind of grow that to be in the best position possibly to negotiate these deals by saying look we've already grown our audience from from when we should go for the fa in last year 2024 to where we are now our audience has grown x percent therefore the broadcast rights are now worth x percent in the u.s that's the only understanding i might have and also jumping off the back of the success of the euros waiting until after that is wrapped up and seeing what the impact of that has on domestic football for the first couple of games to then be in the best negotiating position i'm just paying devil's i know i know i'm just i'm just i don't accept covering all angles i don't accept the waiting

47:14Chloe: till after the euros that is just an example of being reactive and not proactive and you have to be proactive in women's football it is the lesson we're learning all the time is stop underestimating things that are going to happen and because it proves wrong every single time i fully understand listen i work in the social media world i fully understand the desire and need for content but what people are wanting and expecting from you your remit is delivering the football for people to watch and to see you know you don't have club clubs aren't able to put their matches on for teams in the u.s that is your remit um and that's something i touched on about clubs and and this need to have the best content to put out to their audiences and to kind of keep it all in-house and the WSL is a similar they want to have all of that kind of content but if we say like I don't know Premier League am I looking at the Premier League for like the funnest TikToks from the players or am I looking to the Premier League to for the games that you're putting on I just think remit wise prioritize and if if there's not a huge amount of people in the team which I understand and you've not been around for a long time, which I understand, prioritise.

48:20Chloe: I just think that's the main thing because ultimately it should be about the product on the pitch.

48:25Rachel: Well, I do definitely think the clubs are prioritising growing the US audiences. They've had players come in from across the pond, Naomi Germer, Alyssa Thompson, Emily Fox, Kat Macario, just to name a few. They are also going to create loyal US fan bases coming over to experience the footballers that have gone across the pond. obviously like one of the big talking points at the moment is the kind of the continuing salary cap with the NWSL

48:51Chloe: Jesus, calorie cap? Calorie cap, yeah I mean fucking hell

48:54Rachel: I could do one of those to be fair it's been a very big summer for me but 3.3 mil dollars is the current NWSL salary cap we obviously have the minimum salary cap in the WSL but we don't have a maximum at the moment it'll be interesting to see what London City Lioness' owner Michelle Kang and the impact that her very deep pockets has on the conversations around the salary cap but it is obviously encouraging new players to come across the pond but i don't think anyone the wsl is earning 3.3 anywhere near 3.3 million just on performance alone commercial fine i reckon leo williamson's probably doing well in excess of that but in terms of the actual i don't think that's the thing that's no encouraging people to come across the pond i don't i um but do we think actually it's the quality of football that's driving players to come across the pond and be a part of the WSL and this new rebranded you know commercial rights final over the place they've got the broadcast rights now set up and it looks like a promising league that could overtake the NWSL in terms of revenue audience it's growing

49:56Chloe: yeah I think it's about the football and I think we go through peaks and troughs of where it works the other direction and I think at the moment it's it's too young to be drawing narratives from the number of players who've come over or not come over I think we often see an influx of more often than not funnily enough and I don't know whether it's because one goes and then another goes but you know we had a season where we had quite a few Dutch players in the league then we had a season where we quite a few Australian players in the league now it seems to be the turn of of US players and you know players want to play Champions League football like that's another draw for top quality players and I think players like to challenge themselves top players like to challenge themselves in different leagues to see how they get on because the football is different and the challenges are different so it's an element of that but equally I think you know it wouldn't be surprising if players go the other direction to experience the NWSL so I wouldn't draw too many narratives from it yet because I just don't think there's a really clear pattern because of any one particular reason but it is definitely something to keep an eye on.

50:55Rachel: What more do you think WSL football can do to grow the league in the US and beyond really?

51:00Chloe: I think it's probably learning from match day experience learning from the outreach that these clubs do into the communities because they don't have you know a men's club to to fall back on i think they're interesting areas that they can delve into i think ultimately the focus is the football the product on the pitch that should be what we're championing first and foremost and and then maybe looking at at game day experiences in the way in what they do in the nwsl i think about merchandise what they offer over there is huge people are willing to spend money 74 % more in the women's game on merchandise tap into that be proactive

51:34Rachel: not reactive the hospitality packages are pretty sick as well listen we got our shirt printed at

51:38Chloe: a ground in the stadium and a half time the text was to say it was ready just to flag i've not

51:43Rachel: actually been invited to do any hospitality this year so i can only issue that i will be watching

51:49Chloe: the games in the stands listen it's really sad grass gioro had to watch uh the london city line s's game in the stands i don't know whether it was a half to but you know maybe things are tight

51:58Rachel: I'm now a poncho wearing peasant how much of a fall from grace has that been since last year can you come into the next episode wearing a poncho I might have to given the rain before we go last week I asked listeners and viewers who support multiple clubs like me to get in touch we had lots of responses not all of them agreeing with me which is bizarre

52:20Chloe: can I just clarify because I was only negging you I wasn't making like an indictment on everybody who supports multiple clubs I understand that in the women's game I was just digging at you but I did get a lot of support there's a lot of people who supported my position I'll tell you that for free but I'll let you go first because I'm generous let me just read some of these Glow Bry Stinger on YouTube supporting two teams in the same league is bad enough but both of those teams being in the top four ludicrous Tim on Instagram Rachel is 100 % spot on it's just bonkers for anyone to support both Man United and Arsenal it's unconscionable I think that was something that really upset people was the two teams you chose seemed to really get under people's skin at Tingo on YouTube one club for me I can admire players on other teams but will only support my club Arsenal

53:03Rachel: oh no do you know that's a nice one Tingo absolutely absolutely get your position everyone unconscionable

53:09Chloe: ludicrous

53:10Rachel: I mean

53:12Chloe: grow up to be it's just that you're a glory hunter to be fair or you just like going after the fashion that's the difference it was more an indictment on you than anybody else

53:23Rachel: you're lucky we're friends Leila on Instagram my contingent my loyal supporters yes grew up supporting Man United men dad's a mank I mean that's a bad start isn't it supporting Man United men Leila come on so have a very soft spot for the women but also grew up near Kings Meadows so love a bit of Chelsea not opposed to going to any game there have been to Arsenal lots for example because I love watching quality football and that's what it's about quality football yeah but in there she didn't say I support all of those teams look I'm not done yet Katie on Instagram said can't help but love all the WSL teams.

53:57Rachel: Me and my little girl love watching as much as we can. I think I'm still buzzing. Women's football is on the actual telly. I love that my daughter is growing up where it's just normal to play football, watch women's football and just talk about the players. Love that. That's lovely. We're all in together. We're all trying to go the game. We all want it to go in the same direction and it doesn't matter who you love.

54:14Chloe: All right? Sorry, you're speaking to a gay woman telling me it doesn't matter who you love. I'm not fully aware of that but thanks for the reminder. You're right. Damn right.

54:22Rachel: Have a think about that. Love extends across all different protected characteristics wrap it up all right thank you for listening to up front remember to subscribe wherever you're listening or watching so you never miss an episode i'm at morgy underscore 89 and rach is at girls in the ball and we are at up front underscore pod see you next week also definitely let us know if you would like to see um up front merchandise we are considering getting a t-shirt with uh see you next week with the ease wrapped all the way around the torso. If you'd like to purchase one of those please let us know. We will be selling those shortly.

54:58Chloe: Also for anyone still listening after the outros, I'm so impressed because you would have gotten last week's easter egg. Boom.

55:10Rachel: Upfront is a Stack production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

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