Newcastle get Oxtoby, a dramatic NWSL Final, and England come home

0:28Welcome to Up Front, I'm Chloe Morgan. spirit. Plus, we look ahead at how the Lionesses will be seeing out what has been another historic year for English football.

0:39Before we get started, a reminder of our very special competition right now. We are giving away a framed England shirt signed by Lucy Bronze. That's right, an England shirt with Lucy Bronze's actual signature and it could be yours. All you have to do is click the link in the show notes and complete our short survey. It's a really simple questionnaire about your listening habits and it will take you no time at all to complete once you've submitted it you will be automatically entered into the prize part so go ahead click the link in the show notes and put your name in that hat rach you're not allowed i asked and they said they said i could no you can't sorry i'm not sorry actually you can't do it um it's obviously been a lovely welcome break in the wsl i feel like for the past few weeks we've talked about non-stop drama and it's kind of come to the fa cup fixtures which have also provided some drama but it does feel like a slightly subdued weekend.

1:30Yeah, can you let us know what your moment of the weekend is? Yes, I can. I have gone for Dartford FC women beating Kingsham Town 2-1 in the FA Cup. History was made, and apparently history was made twice at Princess Park because I think they got like the record crowd and they've gotten in the competition as well. And a friend of the pod, Lizzie Adams, who works for the Premier League, also players for them. So I thought I'd give them a shout out. Good on Lizzie Adams. One for the team. Come on. And you might have noticed that Rachel's voice is, it's got like a weird kind of sexy husk on it really.

2:09Yeah, it's, Rachel's trying out something new for the next couple of months. Thoughts? My moment of the weekend has got to be Hannah Bodley from Royston FC. They played Bridgewater. She scored a 98th minute equaliser to take the game to penalties and then they won on penalties and made history by getting into the next round. So massive, massive congratulations to Royston there. Unbelievable. I always love it when teams kind of make history and get further than they did the previous years. It just shows the progress, doesn't it? Of like, yeah, of like where these teams are going to and these like big ambitions and hopefully we'll see one of these teams take on, you know, Chelsea or Arsenal or Man City or United in the FA Cup final.

2:45Where do things have happened? I still think back to that match between, no, between Lewis and Manchester United and Lewis hosted Manchester United. Yes. And I remember because I was on floor manager duties for that one. And it was a little bit of a bigger day, which I hadn't realized because it was on the BBC or on like the Red Button or something like that. So it was a bigger production and I had a bigger role. I couldn't shoot. I had to fully stand between the dugouts. I was responsible for telling them when to kick off. All of that stuff was very exciting. But just the atmosphere down at the Dripping Pan, it was small.

3:17There was loads of people. They'd built gantries for the TVs and it was absolutely... The band's out. Yeah, it was heaving. you just the crowd is on top. Seagulls everywhere. It was great. Such a good day. And it just was a real like prime example of a proper FA Cup fixture. I love that. Let's look a little bit ahead to the draw for the third round, which took place last night. 20 ties split between two groups in the northern and southern section. They'll take place on December the 14th. Current WSL2 leaders and promotion candidates Charleston Athletic will face either Watford or fifth tier Saltine United.

3:50Saltine, if you don't know where it is, is from just east of Brighton. They play in the London and South East Regional League. Saltine, that's a nice name. There you go. Like my geography is not great. So that's actually quite helpful. Again, I have an excuse. I'm not from here. I mean, I'm not from Brighton. Yeah, OK. Yeah, fine. Birmingham City, currently second in the WSL2, will similarly be facing a much smaller side. They've got Sporting Calsa from just outside Wolverhampton, a short journey for them, which is always nice. I love that. I also like when the teams further down the tiers host.

4:22bigger teams are just I just must be such an exciting day for the club I used to love it like when we were we were spurs in the championship and then we'd have um I think we played like Man City at uh Broxbourne and the ground at that point was it was it was disgusting it was like muddy it was always like really cold fixtures the pitch was either frozen or it was just like gammy like our change rooms looked like it it was like a drug den it was like absolutely awful and Man City used to come down in there like lovely like Etihad like spankling like what they call like Pearson's coaches or whatever they are that is gorgeous like executive coaches and they'd arrive yeah it was like that they all had like their lovely like track seats we had like some you know not not so nice if you could all wear the same color it'd be great yeah that literally that kind of vibe is navy blue today guys and they'd rock up and yeah I mean I think some of them actually got changed on the coach that's kind of the standard that we were at yes I remember watching them Arsenal I can't remember who was against I think there were maybe two or three tiers below um and it was like four people deep around the pitch because the pitch the the stadium was small i think it maybe had enough for 2000 to sit and it was like four people deep you could barely get around the pitch it was so full and so busy and i could just imagine i mean you could tell me as a player like when it when the fans are just on top of you it just must really add to that atmosphere especially if you're away oh it's intense because you can hear everything like every single comment that someone makes like if you like fluff a ball like you could have saved something obviously it's man city so that was fucking shit love yeah literally i can hit all of that like 10 or 12 times really yeah most of it from my parents right another lovely bit of breaking news this weekend we had tanya oxaby friend of the pod uh who has left her position as northern ireland manager to become newcastle united boss i wonder if that's gonna turn people onto the pod or off the pod?

6:10I'm going to say off. She replaces Becky Langley, who was sacked last month. News broke over the weekend. So we've had a bit of time to digest and think about like how, you know, we want to reflect a little bit on Tanya's time with Northern Ireland. Obviously, she was the manager there for just over two years. Presided over a Euro 2025 qualifying campaign and two Nations League campaigns. Obviously, she came on the pod. Doesn't feel like moments ago, really. Kind of suggesting what she might be doing, what she might be getting up to and told her this is kind of very much going to be the end of an era of transition for Northern Ireland.

6:42Yeah, it kind of feels like this is a great step for her. But I think let's reflect back on her career with Northern Ireland. She's achieved a lot. I think it was there was always a struggle with the consistency of the team performances. But generally speaking, like we said, those big moments there, like they were it was a historic time that she's kind of presided over. Yeah, there's a great article by Andy Gray in the BBC about her tenure. And he's touched on some, you know, some of the highlights and some of the lower moments but this was always going to be a challenging role I think for Tanya because she was coming in essentially you know overseeing what would have been a bit of a transition period I think is fair to say for Northern Ireland because you know players that have been involved in that historic Euro 2022 side you know a number of them were kind of aging out and they were looking at kind of what's next for them and she was very much about driving and improving standards as well as a kind of a succession looking at you know younger players coming through and and she I spent the day with her I think it was last October it might have been and and you know she spoke about all these kind of things behind the scenes that she had to try and wanted to try and improve while she was there and you know bringing in the right people and having the right you know analysts everything all of that kind of stuff not having you know one person kind of responsible for so many things but actually bringing in a whole rake of people who could help turn that dial for the team and you know these are big areas that need addressing and need improving and those kinds of things take time succession takes time bringing in young players takes time you know getting players to play maybe professional football where they can all takes time and he summed it up really well in the article he said that the fruits of oxtoby's labor may not be seen in this next campaign or even the one after that and i think that's a fair kind of assessment because you know getting to a major tournament such a small country was such an amazing achievement and it's a very difficult thing to back up.

8:39Public of Ireland are another example of that. It takes time. And I think she can be proud of the standards and improvements she's made. But I also think then it's understandable that she wants a role now in club football to really challenge herself again. Yeah, 100%. I think I've got to agree with kind of, it was always kind of her mantra to keep standards high. That was the thing that she wanted to do. She got that from Chelsea. Yeah, from the very outset. And I think her time with Emma Hayes, obviously I mean she's a mentality monster we talk about this all the time but that kind of like persistence in the squad being consistent and you know determined and passionate and kind of always having these kind of like non-negotiables that no matter what happens the players need to adopt a certain set of like this is the absolute bare minimum they expect and they should be expected to go over and above that and I think Rachel mentioned that obviously they're you know some of the team like my members that she's brought in like the average age of the squad came down from 27 to 23.

9:30So she was dealing with like a lot of kind of younger players who were kind of making their mark on the international stage, which was amazing. But yeah, and also the run of form that she had. I mean, sort of having a look at her record here. So 26 games in total, nine wins, six draws, 11 defeats. Goals for 28, goals against 44. I think of the teams that they lost to, I think 10 of the 11 were against teams who featured in either the last World Cup or the last Euros. So that just gives you an idea in terms of the calibre of opponent that they lost to. And you're right about consistency. You know, they had some magic moments, last minute goals in kind of, not qualifiers, but those knockout kind of games and playoff games.

10:10But equally, they had difficult defeats. And that's kind of the nature of national team football. And it's something that, you know, managers who go from club to national team experiences, you know, it's not like you can go, oh, well, in January, we'll just bring in X, Y, Z. You kind of, you have to make the best and pull the best out of what you've gotten and pull the best out of the players you have and make sure that they're on board with everything you're doing. That's another thing that takes time. New manager comes in, new approach, new style. You've got, like, you see them so many weeks a year to try and embed that into them.

10:41So, you know, I do think in terms of moving the dial and moving them upwards in the trajectory, I think she has done that. It was quite interesting, actually. I went to a panel talk a couple of weeks back with Kay Cossington, who was a massive part of the FA, kind of like Serena's kind of right-hand woman in terms of kind of like delivering the direction of where the Lionesses want to go. And she was saying like their big strategy around like getting this first like England, like recent England win started in sort of like 2018. They kind of put together this strategy of kind of where they wanted the, you know, the Lionesses to be.

11:10And they never expected that it would happen in 2022. But it all started from kind of 2018 having this strategy in place to say, okay, these are absolutely bare minimums. These are what other countries are doing. These are the kind of principles that we need to instill. And these are the belief systems that we need to have with players. And I feel like that article is completely right, that Tanya Oxaby has kind of come in and made that first kind of step in the right direction for other managers to kind of build on. So, of course, the ultimate goal is to qualify for a major tournament again. But, you know, understandably, that is a very, very challenging thing to do.

11:38And, you know, I've no doubt we'll see them again in future tournaments. Definitely. But let's talk a little bit about her position now with Newcastle. I think that's a massive, massive thing for Newcastle too. I've always been impressed by Newcastle and kind of having this infrastructure and, you know, having the games at the stadiums. they've got these they brought in like loads of experienced players from the WSL1 to kind of go into into the team and kind of like help bolster them and get them into the place that they they should be like the investment's always been been there now you've got a manager with a lot of caliber about her she has a lot of respect in the space she has a lot of respect with players what do we kind of think is is going to be the is what do we think her reign is going to be like at Newcastle well first we all know why Newcastle has so much money and can't forget that but I I always thought it was going to be interesting to see how someone like Tanya does.

12:27I mean, I know she was at Chelsea, but she wasn't in charge at Chelsea. So I think it's going to be interesting to see how she does at a club that does have, you know, a lot of backing, has what she needs at her fingertips or I imagine has the flexibility to bring in things that she needs. So, you know, as much as going somewhere that's under-resourced will challenge you as a manager, going somewhere that's very well resourced really does challenge you as a manager too because it kind of not exposes you but you know you've got the tools at your fingertips that you need um so it'll be really interesting to see how she gets on there I think it's a great move for her good to see her back in um in league football domestic football again um but of course as you touched on all this money being pumped in at Newcastle expectations are high as well so um yeah and she's gonna know that I think oh 100 % I think like you said there race like there is that kind of um i think there's an additional pressure when you've got the tools around you that really it's how you use those tools and how you get the best out of players because we know the women's football space if there's a bad run of results like things are pretty savage in terms of the manager manager merry merry go round but at the moment newcastle currently sit fourth in the wsl2 charlton have opened up a gap at the top but remember there's two promotion spots up for grabs so Newcastle currently on 13 points Bristol 16, Birmingham City 19 and Charlton 23 so even though I mean obviously 4th is not a bad position at this point in the table Can I just point out though there are 4 points off 11th so that just tells you how tight it is between 4th and 11th is 4 points There is also quite a big gap between them and Charlton I mean 10 points is pretty Yeah and I do think the fact that you've got that second spot and then you've got that playoff spot that's what so many teams now are essentially within touching distance at the moment but we know these things can change once you get into the second half of the season 100 % and then you're also kind of fighting with the Bristol City who have also just been allocated a large investment pot with the Mercury 13 gang so yeah I think it's going to be a really interesting kind of time I'm absolutely wishing her the best of luck because I feel like if she gets the best out of these players with the infrastructure around her this could be a team breaking into the WSL one maybe not this year but most certainly competing for it next year.

14:42So yeah, best of luck, Tanya. We've got to have you back on the pod as well. Yeah, to talk about how things are going, maybe towards the back end of the season, once you've got your feet under the table, once you've got some results that we can talk about and once you can share your ambitions for where you want to take Newcastle United, like man. I had to get one last one in there. Coming up after this, something a little bit different. Rachel chatted to US soccer journalist Asli Palit about Saturday's dramatic NWSL final and whether Trinity Rodman could be coming to England. Stay tuned.

15:27Well, Astley, welcome to the pod. It is so great to have you on, particularly given you've just told me, You've just come from the celebration in New York. Before we get into the game and everything that's happened, tell us a little bit about that. It was a beautiful New York, brisk fall to winter morning. And as you know, New York is one of the biggest soccer, I mean, sports cities in America. However, other than our women's teams, we haven't won anything. so 2023 Gotham FC brought the championship to New York and then 2024 it was the basketball team New York Liberty and here we were back again with Gotham celebrating yet another championship in front of probably around thousand people mayor other officials all the teammates it was a beautiful celebration, really bringing up this energy that amazing woman of Gotham FC brought to the field this season and the front office and everyone who's involved.

16:35So it was a beautiful morning to start the week. I love that. Well, this is, of course, the news that Gotham FC are NWSL champions for the second time in three years after defeating Washington Spirit 1-0. the team that knocked them out at the semifinal stage last year. It wasn't easy for them this year, was it? It wasn't. They did have, I would say, a lot of curveballs, a lot of important players got injured. They also had a busier season than the rest of the league. Let's not forget they won the CONCACAF Champions Cup earlier this year, which also made them travel a bunch more than the rest of the teams.

17:20And they continued into their CONCACAF Champions Cup group stages throughout the season. So many of their players play in international competitions, as you know. They have many star players on the squad. But I think coming back from injury and creating a consistent squad was one of the biggest challenges they faced. And I think once they actually got the sense of how they're going to do that, and the coach Juan Carlos Amorim describes that a chaos in a way, a planned chaos. And I think that really throws their rivals off. But also sometimes when it didn't work, they were disappointed with the on the pitch, you know, results.

18:10But at the end of the day, as you know, the American sports, I play differently. You can be the best team finishing the regular season and you can lose it to the, you know, the eighth seed like Gotham did. knock Kansas City current off the playoffs in the first quarterfinal. It never is an easy guess of who's going to win in this league. Yeah, peak when it mattered. I do wonder if that, like having won it before and knowing that even if you're not right at the top throughout the season and just having that kind of experience in the back of their minds helps them as well. So even when you're not having good moments, you know that it doesn't mean that you're not going to have the opportunity to either get to the knockout stages, get to the final, win it.

18:58Look at the squad. So many very, very talented and also very experienced players play for Gotham. This is not their first, you know, rodeo, I would say. They know exactly when to come and show what they are capable of doing. They know the right, and they're very calm and connected. And like you said, I think knowing when you need to do it is the key component and keep your calm, keep your cool is one of the parts, I think the secret sauce they bring to the field. And more specifically, tell us, tell our listeners a little bit about the goal. I just wonder, it was a little bit of a crazy situation that led to the goal, but maybe just tell our listeners a little bit about it.

19:48I don't know if our listeners know who Bruninha is, but Bruninha is an incredible Brazilian player who has been with Gotham for three years. So this is her second championship with the team. Bruninha's spatial awareness and the ability to follow the ball and at the same time follow the players that she needs to communicate with is, I think, unmatched. It's really a special talent that she carries with her. And I think the way she dribbled the players, the Washington, you know, spirit defense, and then saw that Rose was coming and literally kicked the ball in her left feet so perfectly, created that magical, I mean, I call it a magical goal because we don't get to see goals like that all the time, right?

20:42You know, it was worth of a playoff final. Well, I guess listeners can go and find it on social media and watch it back. But it just felt like a cherry on the cake of a difficult season to have it kind of accumulate, a culminate in that kind of moment. Yeah, I think Rose Lavelle said icing on the cake. Oh, no, she actually said icing on the cake, her winning the MVP of the playoff championship game. That's what she called icing on the cake. And she is the kind of player that throughout the season, as soon as she was able to perform 100 % at her capacity after coming back from her injury, proven to the world.

21:24You know, she's not only one of Gotham's best players, she's also a world-class player who is also has a special way to communicate with her teammates and see, like, I think like a chess player, a few moves ahead of everyone else to be able to do what she does and delivers always with an amazing goal. It feels like the way the league is set up and the playoffs, you know, we here over here have the league set up. You win the league, come top at the end, you win. Then we have the FA Cup, which is, you know, you get to that point, a knockout style competition, lots of magical moments. Kind of feels like the NWSL provides a little bit of both, right?

22:09You get to kind of follow your team throughout the league, but then these playoffs can provide such kind of magical moments. And, you know, there's a memorable one that sticks out, Jaden Shaw, of course, saying, going into these playoffs, underdogs my ass, when asked about Gotham's chances. And I guess she was proven right. So they just must really just rise to the occasion. They're a prime example of that, right? True. And today's celebration, she was on stage repeating this very unforgettable quote of the season, I guess. And it was, in a way, interesting. And this was, I think I have to repeat it the way they did throughout the season.

22:50A lot of people didn't believe Gotham had it in them to be able to raise the occasion or even get to playoffs. But when you look at the quality of the squad and the players they have, you have Germany's goalkeeper and Katrin Berger. You have world champion Esther Gonzalez playing for them. You have Jess Carter, who just won the Euros on their defensive line. You have Mitch Purse, Rose Lavelle, Emily Sonnet. Calling that squad underdogs was a bit unfair, I would say. Plus the rising stars of the U.S. women's national team like, you know, Jaden, Jalen, Lily Real, Sarah Chupansky. I mean, just like, you know, all these incredible players that play for.

23:41I think I wrote about it a few years ago and I call them the Galacticos of NWSL, especially when they brought Esther right after the World Cup. You know, I think she was right to say that, that they're not the underdogs of this league. One of the players you mentioned there, Jess Carter, obviously English interest. Esme Morgan, of course, at Spirit as well. But just Jess Carter, from her, from your perspective, how important has she been to this winning side? Her expertise and her way of really controlling the back line makes a huge difference for a team that perhaps didn't win as many times that they wanted to throughout the season.

24:28But they definitely didn't lose as many and they didn't concede goals. So that shows how Jess controls the back line of Gotham and in, you know, in coordination with, you know, and Katzenberger. but also her teammates like Emily Sonnet. And they really built a wall in front of, I think, Gotham's goal. And then, you know, just to touch on Esme Morgan, she seems to have really, I don't know, bought into just everything around the NWSL. She's really ingratiated herself with fans and her teammates. Fans seem to really love her over there. Is that a fair reflection? Totally fair. And I think I remember her after the, was it the quarterfinal?

25:15How as soon as they won, she jumped into the supporter section, jumped the fences and started cheering the crowd as she's one of them, which is not a very common scene in American sports. Again, you know, she really brings that fandom loyalty to the colors that we are more maybe, you know, I'm not American either. So we are more used to seeing these scenes where the players actually become one with the fans. And I think Esme has that. Also, I feel like she really bet on being in this league and being one of its best players for a while. And we could see that all season long. Unfortunately, they didn't have the results they wanted, but she was definitely a huge star this year at the league.

26:04Yeah, and I think England fans can see the benefit as well of the time she spent over there. Washington Spirit, of course, is one of Michelle Kang's three clubs alongside Lyon and London City Lionesses, of course. Head coach Jonathan Géraldés left Spirit midway through the season to take the reins at Lyon. How did that go down? Um, it was a big surprise for P I would say perhaps for the audiences, but, um, his, you know, assistant coach Adrian, um, he was actually already running the team where Yonatan came aboard. And as soon as he left, um, he was back on charge and I could tell that the team really meshed with the assistant coach that turned into head coach.

26:54So I think the transition was smooth. It wasn't a big crisis for Washington Spirit. So fans aren't worried that Michelle Kang might be looking at different priorities? No, I don't think so. I didn't. I mean, I have to say it's one of those teams that I don't follow the fan part so closely. I'm more of I'm looking at American sports from a business perspective and leadership and ownership. And I think Michelle Kang is still showing that all her teams are equally important to another. And we saw that in, I think, when you're looking around for the player transfers and how she's moving, she hasn't done any of the...

27:41What people are worried about. What people were worried about, exactly. Are they going to move Trinity Rudman to London? or I think coaches is a different ball game. I think Jonathan's Euro experience was needed more in Europe. I think that was a smart choice. And they knew that his assistant coach was already loved and respected and really understood the squad in Washington. I've always been so impressed with seeing Michelle Kang one minute at London City and then the next day she's over at an NWSL fixture. year it's pretty incredible in terms of like physically showing up and to show her support and she doesn't get jet lag i guess right you know maybe that's why she wears the glasses i don't know i might need to take some tips and of course trinity rodman's future as well at washington is such a big story in the nwsl right now and came on as a sub in the second half went down with injury right at the end of the game she's had a difficult time which with injury this year what do you think is next for her?

28:44There's so many rumors flying around. So many rumors. We know that we reported as The Athletic that she has an offer on the table from the second biggest league, women's soccer league in the country, USL team, has put a contract in front of her. And she said she's not going to talk about it, I guess, until the end of the playoffs, which now I think all eyes will be on her. I would say that, of course, I think league-wide, everybody wants to keep her. It's a big star. But of course, only time and her decision will show us what her decision will be. What we've seen is at least three WSL clubs are reportedly interested in or can you give us any indication on who they might be?

29:39I don't think I can do it at this time, unfortunately. But huge news that everybody will be following now that the playoffs are over. And just touching back on the USL, you know, they were able to offer much more money because there's no league salary cap.

30:00The league salary cap in NWSL, 3.5 million? Is that right for each team for the 2026 season and which will rise to 5.1 million in 2030. Is the whole situation around Rodman maybe putting pressure on that in terms of like the USL now being able to offer so much? Salary cap is a, how could I say, from, I mean, I'm going to give the perspective from both sides. as a foreigner looking at United States sports and as someone who's covering American sports for a while to an audience outside of the United States. Parity is what makes NWSL so special. And in order to protect a parity, salary cap actually plays an important role.

30:49Every game in NWSL is almost as good as a playoff final. So that is very important for Americans to keep that parity. Another important thing for American sports ownership in general is creating a financially stable environment for clubs and the league to survive. Let's not forget NWSL is the third women's league that was founded and so far is the most successful one that didn't have to fold because of financial issues. And when we look around the globe and women's soccer teams how many of them are actually financially stable or profitable? None by themselves. I know in WSL, they're mostly tied to the men's team.

31:37Here at the NWSL, they're not profitable yet, but that's what they're thriving, like aiming to get there. So changing salary cap will only negatively impact some of these clubs that are trying to really keep a balance sheet on the either not on the red, let's say. And so that's like number one, big picture. So it is important to perhaps keep the salary cap for the stability of this league. USL not having a salary cap. I don't think USL is a league that is competing with NWSL in terms of yet quality of the players. Everyone wants to play at the NWSL. I would say most players, knowing that when they get to NWSL, they will actually be challenged in a way that they might not be challenged anywhere else.

32:30So for a young player, for an experienced player, it's probably more exciting to play for NWSL. But of course, it's a very, I'm sure NWSL is thinking right behind them like, hey, this is kind of a risky situation for us. what we're going to do. I think people are perhaps, you know, staying up at night, thinking how they're going to go around it. They just signed a CBA to, that you mentioned, 5.1 million in 2030. Will they change that overnight just because Trinity Rodman receive a big offer? I think we all have to wait and see, but that sounds unlikely to me. It's just another kind of league now to fend off for the, you've got WSL, you've got, you've We've got finding them all from all different directions now.

33:18Exactly. I think players tend to leave NWSL for WSL these days for the competitive advantage, for Champions League opportunity, to play for a legacy team. We saw this just a few months ago. Elisa Thompson left Angel City FC to join Chelsea in a record-breaking contract. I feel like players are thinking where they can grow and learn, I would say, new tricks in Europe, more likely to jump ship and go to Europe than perhaps choose another league in the United States. Just because NWSL is the most exciting league in the U.S. at the moment. And if not in the world. Listen, we look forward to the league's turn in February.

34:12thank you so much for your time it's been brilliant having you on thank you very much for having me have a great holiday season

34:25thanks so much to asli and rachel there a super interesting chat and it'll be fascinating to see what happens next for trinity rodman try to get it out of her i tried to see and she just was like nah she's not telling me anything we'll have to wait and see so you did your absolute best but Can you imagine if she actually does come to the UK, like what those announcements are going to be? Do you remember when Alex Morgan came to Spurs and there was a billboard in Leicester Square? Like that is, that's going to be small fry compared to like... To be fair, we've been on a billboard in Leicester Square.

34:51So it's a low bar. Different vibes. Yeah, slightly different vibes. High bar? I don't know. I mean, that was the peak of us. But yeah, I'm nervous. I'm nervous for Trinity Rodman in the WSL. Why? Definitely want to see it. But I think like if you've got like a, you know, a Maya Ramirez, you've got Lauren James, you've got Alyssa Thompson you've got an Erin Cuthbert ABJ yeah you've got this squad and then and then you get Trinity Rodman in it supercharge you've got what's the point what's the point I'm excited I'd like to see some other clubs come in for as well maybe London City Lionesses they can't pockets are only so deep let's talk about the Lionesses they are preparing to close out 2025 in style hopefully this international break sees the Lionesses play their homecoming series so they've got China at Wembley on Saturday Ghana at St Mary's next Tuesday and this will be the first time the two teams have ever faced each other I always love when you've got two teams that have never played because they in terms obviously they've done analysis they've watched the Ghana games and things like that but also at the same time you don't actually know how a team is going to set up and play against you until you're on the pitch and you just come up across a lot more unexpected factors I think when you have that Yeah, and I do think, you know, from what I was reading of Sophie's wonderful articles, is that Ghana do like to play a little bit on the transition sometimes.

36:15And that is an area that England have struggled with. So they've definitely picked both of these opponents for a reason, to challenge them. So, and given, like, it's kind of hard because the last two, the last window in the last two games, they were playing, essentially playing against 10 players both times. So it's kind of hard then to assess those challenges and whether you've gotten out of them what you would have wanted. so hopefully these games go a bit smoother and they can get the challenges out of them that they want so the last time England played China obviously was at the 2023 World Cup the Lionesses stormed the game 6-1 we were there we were at the stadium and it was such a it was such an amazing game to like be at because you just didn't know at that point I was like I really don't know what to expect to this point because like I just it was just one of those really dramatic World Cups wasn't it when Keira Walsh was out with the problem with her knee was that and we were all stressing about like how are we what that game without kira walsh this is a real stress i thought that was later in the day no because she picked it up against denmark and she went down going my knee my knee i've done my knee and we were like how are england gonna play really i thought that was much later and she went to a back three and we were all like holy shit she's completely changed rejigged the game that's what made the china game so exciting was that she completely rejigged the team and it was totally unexpected and it caught china out i think because just like us I don't think any of us knew what to expect without Keira Walsh on the team and that's always been What do we do now?

37:39And that was always the worry and still is what happens if Keira Walsh gets injured or if she gets marked out of the game and given Serena was always accused of being same players same style never changes things everyone was like whoa this is a different England and it was a very exciting game to watch in the end but I also remember the fans beforehand and the Chinese fans beforehand and they had some unbelievable like drums and kind of like dragon puppets and oh it was such a cool atmosphere outside the stadium so i hope they bring some of that to wembley it was it was absolutely rampant anyway let's talk about this uh current run-in so one name that's massively standing out in this current squad uh which serena named last week freya godfrey um first senior call up for the youngster um serena bigman said she was very excited to be called up a little bit flabbergasted i think flabbergasted has she been watching traitors it does sound a little bit like that quintessential language isn't it um but yeah i mean freya godfrey's obviously been putting out on an absolute shift at london city lionesses like i think you look at her current run of form like she's got goals she's got assists like she's absolutely flying it was it was only a matter of time i think before she she popped up on on serena's radar and it was something we've touched on is you know while london city have brought in all these signings and spent all this money it's still great to see your isabel goodwins your freya godfrey's getting game time performing for them as well being key players in this squad which is great and it's also like the example of what the under 23s is there for it's to have these players ready to go when Fiegemann thinks they might might be ready for it and it's also what these windows are for and these friendlies are for is to give players that opportunity to step up and see how they get on so yeah I'm delighted for her yeah really really excited I think in those kind of games as well you'd always anticipate that she might even get some minutes um you know yeah we saw like you know what Michelle Ajiman done in like the lead up to the Euros that she was getting a couple of minutes here and there maybe at the end of games like the reception that the youngsters get also is absolutely amazing like fans love to see youngsters coming on five ten minutes kind of see what they can do so and i think it's good to kind of get her this exposure playing with the squad you know there's a little bit of pressure there because she obviously wants to perform and kind of like cement you know her you know how serena sees her but at the same time like you don't have the pressure of like actual major tournament football so i think this is a really nice opportunity for her i hope she gets some minutes dare i say um also from the october window sophie bagley my god uh wslog um yeah but i've got i i love i love i love sophie baggers like i just but i wasn't expecting this to happen i think it always feels like she's been around for like three decades worth of uh of women's football uh it's really nice to kind of see her kind of get um her moment as well with with the england squad and then we've got anuke denton grace fist taylor Hines and Lucia Kendall all keeping their spots too.

40:20Speaking of England personnel this morning it was announced at like seven o 'clock this morning or something ridiculous time we all woke up to it. It was very early. The BBC announced that Hannah Hampton has been named their women's footballer of the year for 2025. Obviously I think you know everyone was kind of expecting that she'd be in and around it. She obviously played a massive role in Chelsea securing their domestic treble last season, of course, keeping 13 clean sheets in 22 WSL games. And then obviously the bloody Euros. She was outstanding. Yeah, there was a really gorgeous moment from Sonia Bonpasta on the socials.

40:55She kind of had the BBC Women's Football of the Year trophy behind her back, walked into the canteen, like Hannah's sitting there, and then Aaron Cuthbert and a few of the other players and stuff. And it was Hannah Hampton's birthday, I think, at the weekend. So Sonia said, oh, I'm sorry I've missed your birthday. Like I spoke to my kids and they were saying, you know, what would you get um you know hannah for missing the birthday and the kids have said oh it's a rabbit so we got you a rabbit and then she pulls out the bbc women's footballer of the year trophy and hannah's obviously like absolutely shocked that's not a rabbit where's my rabbit take that back um but yeah she yeah obviously like a lovely a lovely moment for her um yeah she's had an incredible incredible year what a year you could not domestically and internationally you know when you're writing down your intentions in january and you're like oh like i you know i hope i dream big Yeah, I hope I lose a bit of weight this year or, you know, hope I, I don't know, find a new job or hope I, you know, get a new car, whatever it is.

41:46Like Hannah Hampton, Euros win, Chelsea win, Footballer of the Year, Golden Glove. What are you putting on your list in January now? Done, I'm fine. 2026, nailed everything. I win. Well, not for 20, maybe a World Cup. Yeah. That's a 2027 goal, I think. Champions League. Enjoy 2026, mate. You deserved it. No, don't stop now. compounds your success and keep going both of those things at the same time enjoy but also crack on don't stop no congratulations to Hannah Hampton from last year up front you've absolutely smashed it this year yeah what an incredible year add that to the God she's gonna need a big trophy cabinet isn't she yeah 100 % that BBC Football of the Year trophy it would look like a Euros trophy would you have would you just convert like a little closet or something into like a trophy room I could only dream of having had enough trophies in my clan career to have warranted a room because you look at that ikea cabinet you're like that's not gonna work i've got a wsl2 championship medal and we came runners up that can hang off something nice it could be very pretty yeah hang on i've got a i've got a really good marketing ploy here uh ikea if you're listening you need to team up with some of these people and provide them some trophy cabinets that would be an unbelievable trophy cabinets that would be an unbelievable partnership by the way so if i see that i'd like a kickback thank you a nice solid base so back to england of course these friendlies are especially important now that england have been drawn in the same group as spain for oh my god go away it's a boring it's uh the two teams just very attracted to each other like there's a magnetism around them is that kind of love hate relationship where you were saying it before like you're obsessed with me you're obsessed with me stop sliding in the dms all right like one of them runs away and then the other one chases and then the other one runs away and the other was just like guys give it's not gonna work it's like the ross and rachel of women's football fixtures yeah well they won't they um and you don't know who's gonna win who's who yeah i feel like england is ross and uh spain is rachel yeah rachel's got a bit more about her yeah yeah like there's a kind of annoying yeah yeah rachel yeah yeah yeah fair i think it's a fair i don't think people would be very happy with that are they actually friends that is the question yeah nice um i do think they enjoy meeting up together because it always feels like it's such a even when it's been a friendly fixture it always feels like there's a lot of weight behind it a lot of weight and importance i always go into these games just assuming england's gonna lose so anytime it's not an england loss it's like well that's done well and you've got a very short memory when you look back at it it's been quite a like a back attack kind of situation well but also can we just you know stop enough now yeah youth levels everything spain always spain i think there should be something in place when the teams have met up like four or five times in the past like two years like a restraining order yeah like there should there should be something that kind of prevents because otherwise I think people will kind of get a bit remember we had the Man City Chelsea fixture and it was like four weeks on the trot of the same game and it was like it was something I was going to say about these friendies how nice it is to see England play different teams because we often see them play you know the same team over and over with the Nations League and here we are again well it'll be super super interesting to see kind of what Serena is thinking around the Ghana and the China games and see if we can get like a little sneak preview of what's going on in her mind before she kind of gears up to the Spain game in March so yeah Once it's 11 players on the pitch against Spain, that's all that matters.

45:06That's the goal. Elsewhere in the international friendlies, Emma Hayes' USA play a doubleheader against Italy, both in Florida. I feel like Florida is getting quite a lot of tasty games. We've got the World Sevens coming up not too far from there either in December too. Brazil, who of course beat England last month, will phase Norway. Speaking of Norway, huge news for Spurs. This is a big one because we were kind of, We were talking about this player for quite a while. We have been super, super impressed with her. And now we see this announcement that Gopset has signed for a club record fee, reportedly around£378 ,000.

45:45Sort of coming. Yeah, you kind of called it, Rach. You kind of called it. You look a bit smug. I found a text message that I sent to Soph when I was over at my little press trip over in Bergen watching SK Bran. And I sent her a message saying, remember the name, Signal Gopset. I wouldn't be surprised if you were here in the WSL. And that was in May. I've got to give you that you did call it we talked about her a little bit in the Euros and you were absolutely waxing lyrical about the talent and the passion and kind of the tenacity that she was showing on the pitch but yeah I think when I thought I'd see her in the WSL and then Martin Ho of course signed for Tottenham I just thought right that's going to happen because he obviously managed her over in SK Brand he knows her quality so I've no surprise at all that he's managed to get her to Spurs I think she'll be a brilliant addition for them absolute quality on the ball, very instinctive and we saw that at the Euros.

46:35I think wasn't she like the youngest player to ever score a brace or something at a Euros. So yeah, she's going to add some quality which, you know, we've seen a lot of, to be fair, from Spurs and they've got a lot of youngsters who've become more confident in front of goal and I just think she's going to add to that. It feels a bit scary to kind of... A little bit. Only 20 years old as well. I feel like the average age of the WSL is significantly coming down and it's getting scary and scary seeing these youngsters. It's especially when our age keeps going up. it makes it even more obvious. Well, on that depressing note, thank you so much for listening to Upfront.

47:06You can find us on Instagram and x slash Twitter. I'm at Morgie underscore 89. Rach is at Girls in the Ball and we are at Upfront underscore pod. You can also find us on YouTube at Upfront pod. In the meantime, see you next week. Hope you get your voice back.

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