Rebuilds, marquee signings and disastrous summers

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0:46Rachel: Welcome to Upfront. I'm Chloe Morgan.

0:49Chloe: And I'm Rachel O'Sullivan.

0:50Rachel: We are back, baby. The 2026-27 season is almost upon us and we cannot wait to get stuck in. It's our fifth season. I can't even cope with this. I was a young whippersnapper when I first started. But today it's time for a catch up and there's a heck of a lot to catch up on. What's been happening over the summer? Who's left and who's arrived?

1:16Rachel: I will just add a little bit of a caveat. We are doing our absolute best just to talk about the biggest talking points from across the last couple of months. We will do a bit of a full coverage of more of the teams and a wider selection of the teams, but this is just the big juicy talking points. Rach, before we get stuck in to the big talking points, it's been a while since I've last seen you, mate. You've actually taken some time off. You've actually spent some quality time with Soph. You've not thought about football. You've not talked about football.

1:41Chloe: How's that been, mate? Well, it's made this more nerve wracking. I mean, I know I did the ep went out last week. There's a plug for that Chelsea episode. But yeah, like it's been really nice to be fully away for a number of weeks and you know us we don't kind of do relaxing holidays we did a lot of traveling we kind of did grown-up backpacking if you like across Southeast Asia and it was amazing so I'm ready to get back and get going but it feels daunting doesn't it?

2:09Rachel: Mate I feel a little bit nervous I was like how do I do this thing reading my notes the running order looking at you at the same time trying to get my mic in order I was also 20 minutes late to this show it's been a World wind of a day. Great start. Yeah, yeah, I do feel like it's kind of, I feel ready to talk about football again. I feel like there's been enough for a break. We haven't had a major tournament this year. There's been some good stuff to get stuck into, but it just feels like everyone's kind of just taken a bit of a breather. And now it feels like this momentous thing is going to start.

2:37Rachel: This rollercoaster is kind of setting off from the station and it's not going to stop now until 31st of August, 2027.

2:44Chloe: And it's been an incredibly busy summer as well. And I was saying this to Soph, like, I don't know for those of you who watched The Devil Wears Prada, the first one. And that bit when she goes into this big party and they have a book, but they have to remember all the names of all the guests so that they can tell Miranda who the guests are and what they do and stuff. and I need one of those for all of the players that have joined because I feel like I see some posts I'm like who's that oh god yeah like so I need like one of those books with just like all the faces and all the names where they've come from no it's a it's that's what feels daunting about it because it's been such a hectic summer it's like oh my god gotta get like get your teeth

3:25Rachel: back into it properly now well I think the big question for us was kind of where do we start but it kind of felt like we're going to start with a couple of clubs at the top of the table who have been doing the absolute most in the transfer window who have been I don't know I think there's a lot of or not which we'll get stuck into so let's start with the wrong type of blue should we say let's start with Chelsea I know I know that's gonna know from the get-go I'm starting controversially you've got to do it race you've got to do it and I don't be fair we did give them

3:55Chloe: a special episode last week Keira Walsh and I could be over Jones so if you haven't listened

3:59Rachel: to that do listen welcome to another balanced um non-controversial season of up front just a bit of a reminder of Chelsea's key departures you've had Sam Kerr, Goura Wrighton, Johanna Riesing, Kanarid, Niamh Charles, Millie Bright obviously retired and then incoming Katie McCabe that was a huge one a huge huge huge one uh from Arsenal Melvin Mallard obviously from Man United an equally an absolutely massive huge one. We'll talk about United and why the hell they've let someone like that go. Then you've got Julia Dragone from Barcelona and then you've got Nelly Laz from Leicester City. Manaka Matsukobu from North Carolina Courage.

4:42Rachel: Rach, obviously, you've had the privilege of going out and sort of seeing some of Chelsea in their pre-season era. They beat Auckland FC 7-0 and the A-League's All-Stars 3-0. Obviously, there were some really amazing interviews with Kira Walsh and I could be with Jones on last week's episode. So definitely 100 % go and check those out because it's lovely kind of hearing from what the players have been doing behind the scenes over the last couple of months and preparing themselves for obviously a bit of a rebuild season after not a great season for them last year. But Rach, how did you think the first kind of games of the pre-season tour landed?

5:18Rachel: What were you impressed with? What did you think were still challenges they were having?

5:22Chloe: Well, I didn't see the Auckland one, but I was there for the A-League one. and I think I find this interesting we're going to come back to you on this in a sec about pre-season friendlies and what they're used for and how much stake we can put in them but you know Chelsea I thought started quite a strong starting XI but then made a lot of changes throughout the game as well Katie McCabe started Sonia's going back to that back three that she's trying again which I thought was interesting Ellie Carpenter and Alyssa Thompson as the kind of wingbacks and there was some exciting bit you know there's obviously a little bit of rustiness there but there was some exciting kind of flair and connections between McCabe, Thompson, James.

5:59Chloe: They were doing these lovely little triangles and some of the stuff that the key passages of play that they were doing together was kind of like, okay, this could be really nice because if this is what they're like kind of quite early on in their relationship, this could be really nice for Chelsea. You've obviously got the likes of Dragone coming in, a very exciting young talent. Saw a little bit of her and you can see why she was an attractive prospect for Chelsea as well. But like I said, the three at the back thing is interesting. I think we're going to look into it to see whether that's something that's going to be pursued now for the rest of the season.

6:33Chloe: And I think what's interesting and important for Sonia Bonpastor, I think, is to be just a little bit more definitive and decisive in terms of what you want to do. I remember we talked about it last season, you know, the changes to the starting 11. There was a lot of them throughout the season. And, you know, knowing exactly what she wants from her team, how she wants them to play. and maybe now she's got some players in that could potentially help her play in the way she wants to play. But in terms of the pre-season friendly, I want to ask you as a former player, like how much stock should fans be putting in them?

7:04Chloe: Because, you know, they're not designed for you to be at your peak yet, right? They're also designed for you to bed in new players, build new relationships, rekindle relationships. Like should fans be worried if their team isn't playing amazingly in a pre-season?

7:19Rachel: I don't think fans should be worried at all. I think, and we'll talk a little bit about maybe Man United being a prime example of that. Things, you know, in pre-season not going to plan, but don't necessarily think that that is going to be super critical. That's indicative of how their next season is going to be. I think, I mean, the way we kind of adopted things at Spurs was to try and try as much as we can, kind of try out new formations, try out new pairings, look at the kind of relationships that we've seen developing in training. Because naturally, like, you know, behind the scenes in training, you'll see, you know, certain pairings starting to come out.

7:46Rachel: They communicate with each other. They might be the ones that are spending a bit more time with each other in the canteen or in the gym and things like that. And you've got to kind of look for those nuances because nine times out of ten, if they're in positions that kind of match each other or pair each other in some way, and they're also getting on personally, you do find that sometimes those are the relationships that you want to build and take further. And then equally, you've got this kind of real prime opportunity to start to bed in and get some super good minutes for the youngsters that are coming to the squad.

8:11Rachel: Because, you know, you don't want to be thrown, even though these youngsters and we keep talking about the confidence that they already have and kind of how, you know, the mentality and all the things that go on behind the scenes and getting them prepared and resilient for games. There's nothing that quite puts the fear of God on you than being your first time playing for the team. But that being in a WSL moment, what you want to do is obviously bed out, you know, and get those nerves calm and relax those players and get them used to kind of, you know, still pressurise situations because I think, you know, you can't underestimate the pressure that everyone is fighting for their place in the squad in that pre-season.

8:43Rachel: That is really kind of the dog-eat-dog mentality that's going on. Because, yeah, it's tough. And you don't want to be that person who, you know, didn't perform in pre-season to a certain standard and then in training. And then all of a sudden you're not, it's taken you a while, months, whatever it is, weeks to try and get back into the squad and get back into the manager's favours. But, yeah, I'd say those pre-season games, they might not go to plan because you're trying out different things or you're trying to, you know, you're playing against opposition where you might not understand what their reaction to certain things is going to be.

9:10Rachel: and seeing whether players can actually manage the game real time without involvement for the manager too. So there are more learning opportunities. I wouldn't be surprised if a team like Man City going into pre-season and it not being the kind of incredibly successful season that we saw them have last year. Yeah, I think everyone needs to just relax about pre-season. It's test and learn for me.

9:33Chloe: Yeah, and you're touching it there about youngsters. That's definitely something Sonia touched on when Sophie was asking her some questions at one of the press conferences about that regeneration and bringing in some youth. You've got Dragone, you've got Nelly Lass 18, Julia Dragone 19, Matsukobu's 22. It's brought that average age of the Chelsea team down to 24.2, I think it is. So they are obviously thinking about this season, upcoming season, but also beyond and betting in those younger players. So yeah, I think as well, the fact they went all the way over to Australia, which seems super far, there's a whole commercial side to things which I think is really interesting around those pre-season friendlies but on top of that it kind of pushes you outside your comfort zone doesn't it so it kind of contributes to that that bonding and between new players and it was certainly something Katie McCabe touched on and she said everyone's been really friendly and really welcoming and made it really easy for her to settle in so it kind of gives the team that that bond when they come back and they've obviously got those Champions League games coming up now those qualifiers I think that could be really interesting for Chelsea because competitive fixtures early on before everyone else starts in the WSL will that give them a bit of an edge Chelsea have obviously got their first game

10:43Rachel: of the Champions League qualifying the first leg against Real Sociedad on Wednesday night which is going to be a big one but yeah Rach I've got to agree just sort of jumping back quickly on the point that you made about the you know Australia and kind of the commercial aspect to it but I mean Australian women's football is is one of the biggest growth areas that we're seeing the Women's World Cup was a massive massive boost uh to that and also I mean you look at kind of like the social media bits and pieces, and that's one of the fastest growing markets there. So I think what they're trying to do is obviously build out his international fan bases, which I think is super smart.

11:11Rachel: And just get, you know, these people exposed. You know, you're a club that's had Sam Kerr previously. You've got a big Australian contingent. Why not go out there and do bits? But I think one of the questions I wanted to ask you, because you were there eyes and ears on the ground a bit, we talked about the players, but what was Sonia Bonpasta like during the interviews? Because we kind of saw a bit more of a frazzled Sonia towards the end of the season, where, you know, the frustration setting in, you know the way you know it wasn't a season that went to plan did she seem a bit calmer a bit of a kind of reset and a kind of you know yeah it was a bit of a shitter last last year but fuck it let's

11:43Chloe: go again with Chelsea yeah she's obviously a lot more relaxed and she was doing her interview in front of the Sydney Opera House and the the Harbour Bridge like it was a beautiful setup but yeah of course she's much more relaxed and you know I think they they spoke a little bit about kind of you know rebuilding that culture within the squad and making sure the new players are a part of that and I guess when it's a fresh slate it's pressure's awful yes there's pressure in terms of the season starting again but you know you're in those early stages where you're betting players in you've got the freedom to try new things especially in pre-season um so yeah she was understandably a lot more relaxed and certainly enjoying herself I think oh good I'm really glad

12:23Rachel: to hear that I'm really really glad to hear that because that was a stressful end for everyone in the Chelsea camp. Let's move over to the other side of London then. Let's talk about Arsenal. Obviously lots and lots of business done early in the summer for them. So just a bit of reminder about Arsenal's key departures. You've obviously got Beth Mead, Katie McCabe, Laia Kadina, Victoria Pilova, Manuela Zinsberger and Rosa Carthage. And then coming in... Tattoo McGee, Georgia Stanway from Bayern Munich, Salina Cerce from Hoffenheim, Geraldine Rutler from Frankfurt, Onabache from Barcelona, Misa Rodriguez from Real Madrid, Lisa Bourne from RB Leipzig and most recently Isabella Dam from Brondby.

13:08Chloe: They got the business done early as well. So I'd say, I mean, look, there could be, the window's still open, there could be more business to do, but it felt almost for so many seasons, people would be like, when are Arsenal going to ring in the changes a little bit? And they certainly did it this season, got their business done early. so Arsenal fans knew what to expect and those players seemed to kind of hit the ground running a little bit bed in quickly some big names back as well delighted Geraldine Reutler is coming to the WSL, she was one of my favourite players in the Swiss team during the Euros so I'm excited to see her play and I feel like maybe they've addressed their midfield issue a little bit now with some of those signings will fans be able to see Mariona now playing the 10 playing a little bit higher up now because of these signings still think they're a little bit light on central defenders but as I said there is still time but yeah I'd say Arsenal fans were delighted with the signings and the caliber of the signings as well I think they're just huge

14:09Rachel: and I think what I love is the breadth of signings across the different leagues across or mainly Europe obviously you've got those big name signings you've got Georgia Stanway you've got Reutler you've got Mita Rodriguez you've got Honor as well and then you've got the kind of lesser well-known players but have been starting to kind of make their impact and make their mark in small ways in their respective leagues so I think it's going to be interesting now to kind of see how Arsenal are going to fit all these different pieces together to get back into a situation because I think the one thing that I would say about Arsenal is that there is I think there's more pressure on Arsenal to do something and win a trophy or a title than there is Chelsea

14:43Chloe: I would say and it's I think what's interesting is you know what's good for Arsenal is they've retained the the spine if you like the really key spine through the team von domsilar catley williamson kim little you know alessio russo mariona players like that olivia smith who are key key players within that squad and key starters for them and then they've sprinkled some magic around them so as you know yes they've lost players in the likes of beth mead and katie McCabe but they still have that spine in the team and arguably on paper that should help them hit the ground running and help those players gel a bit quicker I find the kind of the order of the fixtures really interesting Arsenal are away for their first game of the season I think for the first time in a long time away to Brighton they'll probably be delighted to get that fixture out of the way early because away to Brighton seems to be a difficult fixture to them for them towards the end of a season and you know they have them they have Palace then they have Chelsea and then United, I think, I've got the order wrong, but basically in the first five games, they faced Chelsea, City and United.

15:50Chloe: It's the big dogs. They can't afford to have a slow start and they do notoriously start a season slow. But again, I think, you know, you look through fixtures and the way this league is going and how teams are improving, there aren't really fixtures where you go, oh, well, yeah, they should be all right. You know, they'll definitely, there's a lot less of those fixtures. So on paper, I think they should gel gel and be able to sustain like quality with the spine that they've kept in the team. But, you know, history has shown that that's tricky for them.

16:21Rachel: Well, their preseason has started fairly well. If that is what I've just, the counter-opposite of what I've just said, if that is any indication of what, yeah, if there's any indication of how the season might go. Especially against a team like Paris FC, who has, you know, repeatedly been the bogeyman for a lot of teams in the Champions League. Arsenal beat them 1-0 after a late Olivia Smith screamer. They also beat Man City 2-1 in a behind-closed-doors friendly last Wednesday with Lisa Baum scoring the winner. Yeah, I mean, they've got off to a good start. It's an interesting one having, you know, two top WSL sides playing each other this early doors and not maybe giving away secrets.

16:58Rachel: I think they'll obviously both be, you know, attuned to and alive to the fact that, you know, that is a good fishing expedition for the respective teams. But at the same time, it looks very positive to be beating the title winning team of last year. We do have a really good question in from Elaine, who has said, with all the transfers so far, which team do you think will gel the fastest to get a good start to the season? I'm going to go a little bit left field on this one, because I know we've already touched on Arsenal and all the transfer business they've been doing and Chelsea and all the transfer business they've been doing.

17:28Rachel: But actually what I want to do is kind of highlight the importance and strategic prowess of Man City. They've had a couple of transfers, but also the transfers that they have had have been super experienced. They are people who can slot very easily into the squad, who will get up to speed very quickly. And that's what they want. If it's not broke, don't fix it. They're riding on a high at the moment. They've got a really good run of fixtures. Birmingham, Villa, Liverpool and Charlton. we've seen how many times teams need to pick up points in this bit of the season the September

17:59Chloe: October November window so yeah for me Man City alone go on Rach I love that and I like I mean I've a little concern about Man City and potential depth in that kind of front line areas if there's any injuries when it gets to Champions League and the multiple competitions but I totally understand where you're coming from for that early kind of uh hitting the ground running I touched on it there earlier I think Chelsea having those two competitive fixtures before the season starts or everybody else could be really beneficial and I'm also excited to see how Tottenham get on I think they've made some really good signings to what they already had which had kind of been starting to click well and they've got West Ham, Liverpool and Palace as they're opening three games as well so I'm intrigued to see how they get on and see how their addition you know Shakira Martinez, Victoria Ploba how they fit into that squad.

18:49Chloe: Kirsty Hansen come on. Kirsty Hansen like what a signing for them so I just think they've added some real star quality to a team that was starting to gel really well together and I think um they could have a good start to the season as well uh them and Chelsea yeah that's that's what I'm gonna say mate I'm not gonna lie the the last

19:08Rachel: couple of sentences I lost my train of thought only because you said star quality and it reminded to be a louis from x factor oh my god what a horrible comparison thanks sorry about this anyway moving swiftly on coming up after this london city's statement summer

19:28Chloe: sorry i have spent the last week down in the southwest of ireland so if my accent is thicker that's why he's got star quality

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20:31Rachel: London City, where the hell do we start? Michelle Kang and her never-ending pockets have done it again. In our final show of last season, we were talking about Alexi Puteus' potential arrival. And then, annoyingly, just a few weeks later, she was announced at an event in New York alongside the Kangster.

20:52Chloe: She was announced at an event in a different continent from where she currently plays or was going to play.

20:58Rachel: Talk to me about this. Because I understand, obviously, you know, I know, obviously, she's a Nike athlete. and I know Nike have been doing lots of stuff around the Men's World Cup, lots of like Nike Toma branding that's been in New York City and Miami and Venice Beach and the rest of it. So I think there's probably something around like the brand commitments that she had. What they could have done, however, was just wait a few weeks, I think, until she was able to participate in this kind of big announcement in the UK and make it more of a London spectacle to kind of bring light to the fact that she's coming.

21:25Chloe: Like, what about the media over here? Like, I haven't covered that. They're like, oh, New York. Oh, we're not going to get that signed off because there's a World Cup. Oh, great. 100 % on Zoom thanks

21:35Rachel: also it's not a country that I think a lot of people want to visit right now given the current political climate but it did feel to me like a little bit of a missed opportunity to really make something land about the enormity of Alexa Puteas coming to the UK there the stories around kind of how she ended up here are crazy because obviously we saw her down at Bromley for the London City game against Man City I was starstruck I was just making my coffee going about my business and there's Alexa Pateras in the same room. It was crazy. She was in Bromley and I was like, what does this mean? Because there was a lot of discussions.

22:09Rachel: Michelle Kang Pateras. And I was like, something is happening, bubbling along under the surface here. So she chose London City over Boston Legacy. The base salary, and maybe this is a big factor in why she chose Bromley of all places, is rumoured to be under 1 million euros a year, but with bonuses on top of that. Yeah, it was huge. It was obviously an absolutely huge signing. And on top of that, I think there's now the sort of understanding that she's going to be made captain or the captaincy is sort of up for grabs, maybe with her and Daniela van der Donk.

22:45Chloe: While Aslani's injured, I imagine.

22:47Rachel: Yes. So it kind of feels like there's this huge, momentous thing that's happened at London City. And we'll talk about the other people that have arrived. Oh, just a few. Yeah, I mean, sorry, not to undermine and underwhelm for the other silence that they've made, but this was kind of their signature statement piece in saying, we are going hard this year. Rach, I mean, how did you feel like once you were like, God, it's confirmed, this is crazy. We're going to see double Ballon d 'Or winner, Puteus, World Cup winner, Puteus in South London.

23:23Chloe: Mental, like absolutely bonkers. It's a privilege that we will get to watch her play WSL football week in, week out. Like, we are very lucky as football fans and as media to get to cover some of the best players in the world. So to have Alexi Bateas gracing the WSL is pretty damn cool. I think we always knew that this was a big project for Michelle Kang and that she was going to be splashing the cash to bring in big names. We've seen other clubs do it over the years. We've seen Chelsea splashing big money to get big names in. So, you know, we bemoan other clubs for not investing in their teams to keep up with these top clubs.

23:59Chloe: London City Lineses are absolutely doing that.

24:02Rachel: it's crazy it is absolutely crazy like the what what i do think a sign like that does kind of invoke is that obviously you've got these super young players who are now going to be in a room and in training and in matches and on the pitch with these incredibly talented world-class players like what that will do for their training and their mentality and how they kind of develop is

24:23Chloe: is going to be insane um i am intrigued just you know do you know what go on and say who else has being signed because I'm intrigued how he's going to keep everyone happy it's it's more of a um

24:35Rachel: you've got to be a manager and you've got to be emotionally intelligent and I think you've got to be a people person to kind of juggle the gravity of these personalities like you said rage and make sure that everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet because it's it's a lot to manage um so in terms of the whole other raft of arrivals that are coming in so obviously you've got Mappy Leon from Barcelona you've got Dianne from Leon you've got Arquez from Sporting Yanni Thompson from Utah Royals Nicole and Yomi from Frankfurt you've got Mary Earps from PSG and Rosa Carfaggi from Arsenal this is an expensive summer for Canesca and you know what like we've seen you

25:16Chloe: know I've touched on Chelsea there we've seen when they have had a lot of very good players on a big squad and big names and you know back when it was Emma Hayes who was very good at kind of juggling and managing those personalities they also had multiple competitions that they went far in that allowed them to kind of maybe spread that that football across so I guess yeah they've got you know FA Cup what's the League Cup called now that and the League so it'll be interesting to see how they they're obviously going to be pushing for Champions League but how they juggle those minutes and get the cohesiveness within the team without chopping and changing too much that's the difficult bit I guess that's the balance 100 % I think if you go to the WSL website

25:59Rachel: it's obviously got this kind of like transfer tracker type thing and it is by far London City's like London City Lionesses list is 23 moves so that includes people who have re-signed people have left people have come in people are on loan 23 different items line items

26:14Chloe: It's out and four on London, I think it is.

26:17Rachel: It's absolutely crazy. But do you not think, I mean, obviously, because we've seen London City Lions do exactly the same thing last year, a little bit less expensive. But again, it was kind of, you know, this real push to kind of drive on to, you know, go really far in the league by having a good manager. You know, thoughts and prayers for Jocelyn always. But had, you know, I think it was about 11 or 12 players that they brought in into that season to try and gel, to try and make work and fair play to him. I think he did manage to do that. There were obviously six throughout most of the season, but then you've got to do exactly the same thing again.

26:52Rachel: And you're kind of creating this, yes, you've got these amazing players. You've got world-class players here, but trying to juggle that and make sure that they're kind of fitting the London City way of doing things and also trying to find what London City's identity is and not losing that with the different, very strong personalities and ways of playing that will be coming to you. So I think that's the bit that I think everyone needs to give a bit of a grace period to because I think whilst you do have this amazing talent you still need months maybe half a year half a season to make sure that is all gelling together what I worry is that everyone's going to expect that London City line lessons are going to suddenly start smashing things are going to be top three by November well so you know we had this whole

27:31Chloe: discussion last season about London City and everyone's pipping them for top four and you and I were quite measured in that we said we're comfortable that they're going to be safe and we reckon they can be happy with mid-table and sure enough that is where they ended up I actually think like there's such a stacked squad now they've added more quality you saw in the likes of Gras Cioro and Daniela van der Donk when she came back from fitness how quickly they gelled and added that extra level of experience and quality and they've just added more of that so like I wouldn't be surprised I don't want to overdo it but I wouldn't be surprised if they did better than last season?

28:10Rachel: I think they'll definitely do better. I mean, obviously their pre-season campaigns, they've gone undefeated. They got a 1-0 win over Atletico Madrid. Daniel van der Donk, I think she scored. And Maestro was super, super happy with the whole situation. So they were super dominant, not just the result, but the performance. So everything is kind of suggesting that actually they're finding form and finding their style of playing very quickly. but I do think that that has the potential kind of to come unstuck and they still need to you know it's all about trial and error I think you still have to figure out what the partnerships are going to be and how people are going to play and you know a lot of these players haven't played in the WSL for a while um if ever I think what's interesting is they're opening three fixtures

28:54Chloe: United West Ham and Charlton I think it's a really interesting time for them to play Manchester United they are opening the WSL season I'm working that game and the other day I had a thought where I was like, I might have to interview Alexi Pateas on my first match back, which is absolutely bonkers. But like, you know, potentially a good time to play in Manchester United. If they start off the season with a win, face West Ham, face Charlton, they will be fully aiming to get nine points in their first three games. I just, I always say this, I always find the order of the fixture so interesting and how, you know, the right order, the wrong order could be the one thing that trips you up.

29:32Chloe: It could be the game you look back on in May and you say, if we hadn't dropped points here, maybe this, you know, or you say because of this start now we're here. And I just, yeah, I think it's super intriguing.

29:42Rachel: You try not to pile pressure on the teams to go like you don't have time to try and figure this out. You have to have it figured out by September 3rd or 4th. Like you don't you don't have a grace period anymore. But also, I think it is going to take them a little bit of time to fully get up to speed. But yeah, I think I mean, you know, they finished six last year. I think do I think they should be pushing for the Champions League? Probably to be honest I think going forth wouldn't be a disappointing season but I think the ambition that Michelle Kang has and how little time and patience I think she has for not progressing quicker like we saw how quickly you know Jocelyn was let go when things weren't going what she considered fully to plan whilst I and the majority of people Yeah they were only in sixth and then now

30:25Chloe: they finished in sixth so that was it yeah yeah I think it's going to be, the thing that we always forget as well when we have these discussions about a team maybe breaking through is we just think top three. And you need to be thinking about Tottenham. You need to be thinking about Brighton, about the other teams that are investing, that are climbing up the table, that are taking points from top three teams. That's, you know, the top three aren't the only ones London City lineesses have to battle.

30:52Rachel: Thoughts. Thoughts for London City this year. I'm saying a top three finished on the cards for me but maybe at fourth place would not be a disappointing season I think that's a good progression of London City who are still incredibly new to the WSL despite I think if they finish sixth or above I think if they finish sixth

31:11Chloe: they like any other team that did that where they got promoted and then finished sixth twice in a row you'd absolutely be happy with that I appreciate the expectations of the players they have and those expectations are going to be high but in the grand scheme of things if they can finish six or

31:24Rachel: above we're laughing anyway leave it aside all of the talk about the big stars and michelle kang's massive pockets um we've got this really awesome question in from holly who said which young superstar are you most excited to see this season um i had a few on the list um i don't know whether this counts as young but it's young to me because i'm 36 and you're 40 so i'm 37 seven my first one was Shakira Martinez I obviously we saw her last season at West Ham and she really shone for me I was super impressed with just her tenacity and every time she was getting the ball she was driving forward and there was just a doggedness and a determination against all odds sometimes with West Ham I felt there's a real positivity and the fans were getting behind her and I think there's a real special thing about her but I just wanted her to be in the right environment to kind of unlock her actual full potential.

32:18Rachel: I think she scored about 16, 15 goals. But I think now her going to Spurs, because I do feel like there's been a kind of, you know, we had Martha Thomas go to Spurs. You had Beth England go to Spurs. And it kind of felt like whilst they kind of maybe trailed off towards the end, the first season for those players coming in, it kind of felt like they were players who really found their feet. And I'm really hoping that Martinez is going to be the same thing. like playing you know with kirstie hansen i'm just excited about what that partnership could bring for them yeah so i'm really excited about her my next one i just point out by the way i

32:51Chloe: know i know you're old but i still not sure thank you shakira martinez is a youngster per se at 25 20 yeah i literally she's older than chelsea's average team age but you know you go on i i think

33:05Rachel: she's she's yeah fine fuck it anyway Fred Godfrey I cannot wait to see how she excels what I hope for her is because she is now surrounded by these big stellar incredibly galactic names that she doesn't lose herself in that and carries on smashing it the way that she did last year um 18 appearances eight goals now she's got kind of the world's best players to learn from I hope she becomes a better player and doesn't get lost in the noise around other possibly bigger names um and then my last one and this is very much with a touch of wood with a massive touch of wood i i'm saying this just hoping and praying michelle adjumang i cannot wait for to see just to see her back and just doing her best and just being amazing it's just it it shocks me that it's been so long that we haven't seen her she did the ACL in October last year yeah um but I just want to see her back to fitness back to kind of you know her finding her form again and back to just enjoying football and delighting the fans because I yeah you know how I feel about her so yeah I

34:16Chloe: wonder whether she'll stay at Arsenal or whether she'll go back to uh Brighton on loan because Brighton need a good out and out number nine and Michelle needs minutes and I you know that would be a good idea to try and get her in again and I really hope she gets those minutes because yeah she's got a very bright future and I know I touched on the three youngsters at Chelsea Nelly Lass, Dragone, Masakubu and they're some exciting players to watch and who else Chancel Efefe at Birmingham a youngster that's come in from France I think could be is meant to be quite an exciting up-and-coming player it's hard because as you say like there's some players who maybe are already in the league, who you know the names of, but you feel like this could be their season.

35:02Chloe: Olivia Smith, you know, now that she's had a season under her belt at Arsenal, could she go on and flourish even more? I hope Freya Godfrey gets the minutes in that squad. That's the other important thing as well. I'm really keen to see how Emily Murphy gets on at Brighton. Again, maybe not young enough to be... I still think she's young. But I think she's a great signing for them. I think they're a great club for her, especially for Ireland. um because I've just seen her improve so much just it sounds obvious but like the more minutes she gets the better she gets and and she's had a great season for Ireland last season so uh selfishly I'm excited to see how she gets on but with 14 teams in the bloody league like there are so many players that I'm looking forward to seeing in action 100 % I think let us know who your young

35:49Rachel: superstars are the ones that you're most looking forward to um maybe there's some ones that we just you know flown under the radar a lot of these youngsters into it as well next next week when we

35:58Chloe: do you know the broader preview of the season we can properly delve into that as well 100 % yeah

36:04Rachel: let us know and we will discuss it and dissect it next week uh coming up after this Man United's chaotic summer how many times can you say Man United and chaos in one season I don't know but the trend continues

36:26Rachel: right man united it feels like wading through treacle trying to talk about this team and their fortunes and how this summer has been for them um we've got in a really good question to kind of kickstart us but i will talk a little bit about the context behind what's happened at man united before we actually get into answering it. So we've got it in from Jackie on Instagram. She said, how bad will it be for Man United? This is a massive, massive question. At the start of August, Mark Skinner obviously was announced as leaving by mutual consent after five years. Absolutely, you know, we'll get into kind of the dissection of, you know, how people feel about Mark Skinner and what he did actually achieve for the club despite the resources.

37:11Rachel: But obviously, you know, people are kind of on the fence about him. What he did do, obviously, was raise concerns about the lack of investment in the squad and how limited he was, kind of hands tied behind your back in terms of trying to progress the squad and make sure it was competitive to actually compete in the league and also trying to win this Champions League spot. Man United had signed two players by the point that the Mutskiner retired. So he had not retired, sorry, left. Andrea Medina from Atletico and Janina Leipzig from Leicester City. Hannah Blundell, Leah Goulton and Millie Turner had all been moved on while obviously Melvin Mallard got sold to Chelsea for a small fortune the day after Mark Skinner then departs Eva Oled who had just guided hearts to the first Scottish Premier League title was then appointed to head coach she said it was a dream come true obviously it was a massive thing for her felt there was so much talent in the squad but obviously wanted to help the squad unlock their full immense potential despite obviously it having zero budget, not really caring about the women's team and having an owner who completely sticks his foot in it most weeks.

38:21Rachel: Rach, thoughts about how a new manager coming in to an underfunded club that has consistently gone through kind of bad reputational things, but continues to still do its best to deliver what it can in the league is going to go forwards from here?

38:42Chloe: Well, this is the interesting thing because I don't think Mark Skinner was the main problem. I understand that like, I understand fans had issues with tactics and how he managed his players and, you know, kind of not really using young players at all. And that's fair enough. But in terms of a squad that hadn't been supported enough, got to four FA Cup finals, won the FA Cup, got the first major trophy, got to the quarterfinals, of the Champions League first time of asking you know that is pretty good going but for a club of their size and for the time now they've been in the WSL where managers keep saying we're not getting enough support has felt a little bit like it's fingers in the ears and they're just ignoring that situation.

39:26Chloe: Look sometimes a new manager comes in and that fresh face that newness you know can lift players you can get a new manager bounce but you can also have players maybe feel happier and our managed better and therefore will perform better um but i do think the transfer window is still open first of all so i know they've only signed two players um but maybe eva can get a couple of more players in that maybe are in her mold um otherwise i do think united are looking a fairly depleted squad this season given last season they were thin on the ground to compete in multiple competitions I feel like now there's less Gabby George has gone as well don't forget that's another one um at least they don't have to think about Champions League this season so I guess that's one less thing to worry about um but I just think yeah there's a bit of experience gone not a super inspiring transfer window um and I also think as I touched on earlier the problem for United is that you've got Tottenham you've got Brighton you've got London City Lionesses snapping at your heels and they're improving and I just think like that makes the London City Manchester United opening fixture so much more exciting because they're like opposite ends of the spectrum you've got someone pumping money into a squad to try and get them up the table you've got another team that have the money to invest but don't we're the ones that broke into the top and now kind of are going back what feels like going backwards a little bit and I know that they've spoken about wanting someone who can bring in academy players and develop youth and blah blah which is exciting but it feels a little bit like a an excuse for not investing that kind of turn where you're like oh no we're gonna focus on the youth and it's like well that's good but you still need the experience to be there if you want to be playing in champions league and you want to get up

41:16Rachel: the table 100 i was gonna say the same thing like i'm all for a squad that wants to develop its young talent 100 but what i don't like is that that being used as an excuse not to put your hands in your pockets and actually become and maintain a level of competitiveness in the WSL because developing and trailing youth players and getting them into a situation they can play first team football will take absolutely years so it's whether the club is actually okay with the fact that it might possibly underperform I suppose if they see the approach they want to take underperform for the next four or five years while they wait for these players to kind of come through and do business but also what you need to factor in is that these players will develop quicker if they've got good established experienced players to learn from.

42:00Rachel: You can't just adopt this kind of, you know, we're going to fully focus on, you know, trying to almost kind of not get rid of, but kind of almost like weed out or wean out older players and kind of bring through this new roster of youngsters. I just, I don't get it. And I think that the thing that Man United are constantly going to get or the managers and the players are constantly going to come back on is just the fact that they have an owner who really doesn't give a shit about the women's side. I mean, this isn't the first time. You've got Skinner who's raised his concerns pretty much,

42:30Chloe: I'd say, on a fair few occasions from the time that he started.

42:34Rachel: And then we also mustn't forget that we had the same situation with Casey Stoney, who pretty much, I'm pretty sure she departed because she couldn't get on the same page as the board who didn't want to put their hands in their pockets and invest. Like, this is a longstanding issue they've had since they started in the WSL. and they've got an owner who doesn't seem to kind of want or see any value in the women's team at all. So, and also the messaging that gives to the players in the squad and them having to kind of, I don't know, just find the positivity and enthusiasm to go again for a club that doesn't really want to support you in the right way.

43:10Rachel: You're going to start to lose those big names. Like you already have. Like Melvin Mallard is the tip of the iceberg. Obviously you had Earps before that. You've had loads of her before that.

43:17Chloe: But also they got loads of money from Melvin.

43:18Rachel: like 100 % literally but I just I don't know what they're gonna do with that but I in terms of sort of going back to Jackie's question how bad will it be for Man United well this could be a really really bad season because yes you don't have the Champions League in terms of those additional fixtures but you also don't have the Champions League money that comes from being involved in those competitions and then you get a reoccurring cycle of going we don't have enough money blah blah blah when you're one of the richest clubs in the world so how do I feel about Man United scared actually nervous and concerned more than anything for the players and the fans who i don't think are being given the best opportunity to do the best for the club to expand grow progress and

43:58Chloe: take it on to the next level yeah they're opening three games london city first game of the season so that in itself i feels like just has pressure on it you're kicking off the season and there's concern about you you know you've got the real kind of pressure to perform then they face uh Chelsea and then they face Arsenal so it's a tough opening gambit for them and I know you're touching their pre-season there it's it's a concerning pre-season but again look got a new manager in maybe she's trying out as much as she can in these pre-season friendlies to learn as much as she can about the team normally have a new manager bounce mate yeah but she's it's literally you've only got a boob in the door like give her a minute to like to sorry I've decided to use that phrase now by the way I can't remember what movie I heard it from but rather than flooding the door I always say that it's just way more fun no but she's only literally in the door I haven't found the canteen yet you know you need to you need to challenge your players in competitive situations and that means you're gonna have to go out and you're gonna like not play well against teams because you're trying to work out as much get as much information from all your players as you can um so that's all i'll say like maybe that is the case that she's experimenting um and seeing what's what with the team because it feels like her hands are tied but i really hope they get a few more bodies through the door before the end of the season they haven't got long before the end of the transfer bloody the end of season before the end of the uh the transfer window do you know use the loan system guys come on 100 and i think the the issue i

45:28Rachel: suppose of bringing a manager in this late in the day is that they don't have a chance to kind of put their input in who they would like in to be honest like we'll probably see her input come through a little bit more in the January transfer window she's thinking January probably yeah 100 % like and I think there will be and I'm hoping there is a grace period for her while she comes in because this next six months while she kind of rides out this storm of Man United not being in a great place mentally probably the players being a little bit deflated um you know she's coming in at I think probably quite a turbulent time for the club so I think I'm hoping that there is this grace period and we don't see the same rhetoric that we keep on talking about this manager merry-go-round of being like, she's not delivering the results.

46:02Rachel: Well, of course she's not delivering the results. Her hands are tied behind her back. Anyway, that brings us to the end of our first episode of our fifth season. We've obviously tried to cover as many of the big kind of talking points as we can, but like we said, we will 100 % be deep diving the clubs across the WSL in our next episode. So definitely tune in for that. Once again, thank you so much for showing up for season five. It's going to be an absolutely killer season. We have so much to go through. There's going to be so much drama. And we have a major tournament at the end of it.

46:37Chloe: Which hopefully England and Ireland will qualify for.

46:41Rachel: Yes. Yes. Yeah, of course. Of course they're going to qualify. I mean, silly. They've done it before. Christ. Thank you so much for listening to Upfront. You can find us on Instagram and Xlash Twitter. I'm at morgy underscore 89. Rach is at girls on the ball. And we are at Upfront underscore pod. You can also find us on YouTube at Upfront Pod. We'll see you next week.

47:19Rachel: Upfront is a Stack production and part of the Acast Creator Network.

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