Spain snatch victory and we answer your questions! | Euro 2025 #13

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1:47Rachel: Welcome to Upfront. I'm Chloe Morgan. And I'm Rachel O'Sullivan. It wasn't very pretty, but Spain beat Germany 1-0 in extra time last night after a moment of quick thinking or a stroke of luck from Itana Bonmati. Who else? We discussed what the game means for England's hopes on Sunday and we're answering some of your big questions around the tournament. We were kind of having a bit of a chitter-shatter backwards and forwards on the group chat as we always do. a couple of spicy opinions going on normally, but this game for me felt a little bit flat. There's been a lot of narratives around it being a game of chess, a tactical battle between two juggernauts.

2:30Rachel: But I was looking at that thinking, Christ, when's something going to happen? There were obviously some big moments in the game that we'll talk about, but the big moments were interspersed with long periods of just cagey football. no one quite taking the sort of risks that we wanted these teams to take given how you know confident we've seen them perform in recent games how much is at stake it just felt a little bit meh am I right thinking that did you feel the same way yeah it didn't kind of live up to what

3:02Chloe: I expected it to live up to um I expected a little bit more I definitely didn't think that that would be the game that ended nil nil after 90 minutes um I think both sides as you said had chances but they never like they both had shots on target both created chances both had like exciting moments at times but it just never really felt like it took off um so yeah perhaps slightly underwhelming but maybe we expected too much from these two after a long tournament

3:29Rachel: true story i mean now obviously it means that spain will face england in the final on sunday another england spain matchup we've seen quite a few of those in the last year or so and you You never really know which way the game is going to go, to be fair. So it's been quite balanced, which is good for both of us going into this. Obviously, after beating Germany for the very first time, which is a massive, massive win for Spain. Obviously, the way in which it unfolded. So we had pretty much 112 minutes of football that was a little bit cagey. Like I said, kind of a few definitely good chances that we'll definitely touch on.

4:05Rachel: Bomati then breaking the deadlock in the second half of extra time when she caught Anne Katrinberger at her near post. It kind of looked like she'd kind of gone to the byline. It looked like she was going to maybe cross it and it was going to be a cutback. So I think Ann Katchenberger was set and she was pointing towards one of her defenders. I can't make out which, but she obviously had a sort of right eye on what was going on on the pitch. Left eye trying to keep, and that's a goalkeeper's dilemma. You've got to have eyes and ears everywhere. But she's obviously got, she's split in that moment.

4:33Rachel: There's a bit of distraction from her and then she's beaten at the near post. Itana Bob Matty then squeezes it in between Ann Katchenberger and that near post. Bob Matty, obviously we're not taking anything away from her, but she claimed afterwards that she'd studied the goalkeeper and knew that she'd stepped away from her near post. I mean, that's, you know, obviously you do study goalkeepers. Like if you're a striker, that's one of the things that you would do. But that's quite a, to literally pin all of your, you know, strategy around Ann Katchenberger being caught at the near post. it seems a little I don't know a little kind of sus

5:08Chloe: well well done if that's what you did that's very very impressive to be able to yeah the game kind of did feel a bit like just as it crept on that it had extra time written all over it and it needed a moment of magic to kind of break that deadlock I did feel despite Germany having less possession and creating less they still felt like they had a goal in them so it was still kind of difficult to call even in extra time where it was going to go. But I did think it was going to require something special. And it's a bit of a shame that it came from a near post. For the, you know, Ann Katrinberger, who's had the last couple of games been so good for Germany and had some unbelievable saves in this game as well.

5:52For that to be the goal for her, I guess,

5:56Chloe: to let it in in her near post, she'll be so disappointed.

5:59Rachel: I think it's that, like, she has had, And I think, Rachel, you obviously picked up on it because I do have the memory span of a goldfish. But like the last two games, obviously, we've seen her perform absolutely incredibly. She's been pivotal in Germany, reaching the position that they did. Like some of the saves that she's made have obviously been, you know, the turning points in games. And in the opening, what, few minutes or so, I think it was Gonzalez, like, fired an absolute rocket, middle of the goal, which is obviously easier for Anne Katzenberger to get to. But at the same time, the pace of it and where Anne Katzenberger was standing meant that she could kind of tip it over.

6:31Rachel: I mean, I've got to say, she did make it look a little bit dramatic. Like she pushed it over and kind of like dropped to the floor. And I was like, that's one of those saves that you can easily make, like you can make it look more than it is.

6:41Chloe: Where's the drama in that, Chloe?

6:43Rachel: Yeah, all day. Like, fucking hell. Like I've done it myself. I've 100 % done it myself. I'm not here throwing shade on dramatic saves. But also like she did have these pivotal moments in the games. Like she was coming out to claim balls. Like she was enjoying herself. There was a smile on her face when she was playing. And it kind of felt like Germany might just nick the win because she seemed like she had that invisible cloak on again that she had for the previous game.

7:06Chloe: I mean, apparently her grandfather was in the crowd. And whether this is true or not, I'm not sure. But I did see a photograph and it did look an awful lot like her grandfather who said he'd only come to the final or come to a final and surprised her by coming to this one. So I hope that's true. But it did look very sweet. There was a whole, I don't know what you call it, gaggle of burgers. but a mound of burgers, a group of burgers, and he was one of them. So that might have given her that little bit of extra inspiration. But no, she has spoken about how she's living her dream and she was smiling from the anthem right the way through.

7:45Chloe: But yeah, like part of me wondered whether she was playing for penalties. You know, I thought this whole eight second goalkeeper rule was in place, but obviously it's not when AKB is in goal because it definitely felt like she was killing some time at times in this game and the crowd were getting really antsy with her and booing and whistling. And part of me thought, you're creating, you are having opportunities against Spain, but you're not just want to fucking finish it as quickly as possible rather than potentially playing for penalties and then being the hero, I guess. But for me, I was just like, you are creating with long balls over the top and AKB sending them long.

8:22Chloe: you know but it did feel that there were times as the game went on you know some of her distribution started to wasn't excellent like sending the ball to the Spanish players and some of that can be down to the Spanish press as well but I don't know whether it was a lapse in concentration for that goal to concede but you know I think a lot of people are going to remember her heroics in this tournament rather than anything else

8:44Rachel: Oh 100 % and I think you've got to give her credit that she has been absolutely pivotal in this German side I think we also need to give um flowers to catacole um absolute hero between the sticks i said like the entire game like she didn't have loads and loads to do all the time but when she was called into action what she did was absolutely brilliant um right at the end of the 90 minutes she kept out clarible deflected shot so if you haven't seen this definitely go and see it because it's like it's again kind of um it's like the and catching burger save essentially it was kind of a deflected shot it ricocheted off of someone's foot and then it kind of like looped over catacole she then back for like the back pedaling on her super super fast manages to claw it out of the goal with both hands and then after she'd done that then sort of like writes herself again and like saves another another shot I mean the the double save like that was absolutely pivotal for so for listeners benefit who might

9:42Chloe: not seen have seen it her momentum took her like off her feet she fell backwards into the net of the goal so she wasn't just like in and around the goal mouth she was in the fucking net at the back of the goal and uh i think it was vam sir who was following up on the right all she had to do was bury it i was looking at it being like oh my god we're in the 90th minute this is a definite goal like this how and suddenly catacole was maybe it's in the name she the reflexes she was up on her feet at her near post within the space of about 0.3 seconds like you're the goalkeeper Tell me how difficult it is to not only just get from the ground up, but like she literally momentum backwards in the net.

10:20Chloe: I bet you get feck and tangled to that net all the time. Like to be able to get out that quickly and be that reactive to someone taking a shot from so close. That was incredible.

10:29Rachel: I think a lot of like what happens in that moment is like your adrenaline kicks in. So things are sharper. Like you end up like doing things that you didn't actually think would be possible if you were at a training session. And I think 100 % like the having to, like, we talked about this before, kind of the core strength that it takes to like not only like go backwards, but propel something forwards at the same time. And then she had her hand, it looked like it was always going to get caught on the side netting to then force yourself to go forward and then to get yourself set. And not only like come out, like in that moment as well, once you get yourself set, you have to read the game situation and it's happening.

11:02Rachel: Like split second things are taking place. You have to read the speed of the ball. You have to read whether that ball again is going to be whipped across. so you've got to change your body position if it's going to be a cutback. But she anticipates that shot on my guard. That is an absolutely brilliant bit of ball game. At that time of the game as well. 100%. You've been in it. You have had very, very quiet periods. And then to stay that sharp, absolutely credit to her. I thought she was unbelievable.

11:25Chloe: She went on a feckin' adventure at one point. Did you see her? Twice. She took off out the goal. She was playing defence. She was up all on her feet, taking on players. And AKB came up at one point. I was like, what is going on? What is in the water in this game?

11:38Rachel: Honestly, though, I mean, why not? You've kind of got to keep yourself in and around the game and also like pressing yourself up and like being closer to defenders and like being able to communicate lets them know that you're there. So I'm not a massive, I wouldn't give any criticism to a goalkeeper wanting to take a little bit of a wonder. I was pretty feck and nervy.

11:53Chloe: I was like, what are you doing this far up? Like what? You're not even near your box. Like you're out here on the left. Jesus. And she was surrounded as well.

12:00Rachel: I was like, fuck, that takes so much. It's bravery. It's bravery. There were very few chances in this game. When the chances did come, I think they were brilliant. Germany created some chances in the first half with Clara Ball, almost guessing a 1v1 with the goalkeeper. And then Giovane Hoffmann air-kicking the ball. She was replacing Nuskent up front. But then Spain obviously started to take a lot of control at the end of the first half. I mean, Rach, were you predicting the game was going to go anyway by the time we'd hit halftime? Were you thinking, Christ, just more of the same, really?

12:31Chloe: Even by halftime, it was hard to call. I think the longer the game went on and Germany prevented Spain from scoring, the more chance they had of getting something out of the game, of winning the game. I wasn't hugely surprised by the chances they created. You know, they obviously recognised that direct runners and Hoffman providing that a little bit at times caused Spain problems. Clarabool was having an excellent game, but for the final finish. Like, I think what let Germany down was their decision making in and around the final third. They get themselves into really good positions. they'd really look to be challenging the Spanish defence and then they'd like hit it wide or miss the ball or send it to the wrong person and you're like it's so hard to be creating those opportunities against Spain so to be that kind of ineffective is quite disappointing because yeah there were opportunities there and I know they only had four shots on target to Spain's nine but they created something like 15 maybe And I think that's the disappointment is actually to be able to get up into their box and to be able to get into their third and to be causing their back line that little bit of stress and to at times overload a little bit and not be able to capitalise.

13:43Chloe: You can't do that against Spain because when that one golden chance comes, and we spoke about this in the last part about what Spain need to do and what they'll have learned from the Switzerland game. And that's patience. And I think they had that in abundance. And they didn't let themselves get frustrated like they did in the Switzerland game. They seem to just kind of trust the process and know it would come. And I think that was really valuable for them last night because, yeah, as I said, not maybe the most electric game, maybe didn't play as well as they would have liked. But for them to know it will come eventually is quite a dangerous kind of thing, prospect.

14:20Rachel: I think that feels like the scariest thing about Spain is that kind of confidence they have that no matter how close it gets to the end of a game or it going to extra time that they will pull something out of the bag. They never seem rushed or panicked. Say for example the England game, you're 1-0 down, you're getting to the final few minutes of the game and it is panic stations and people are lofting balls forward. And like, understandably, you've, you know, you're all guns blazing. It's the final roll of the dice. You've got to do those things. But there's never that kind of, I don't know, like fear with Spain.

14:57Rachel: They just seem so like on the level and just very calm about it. And I think the patience that they have to like see out games, that feels for me like, I don't know, I'm just I'm just very nervous. That's the nervousness that I have around the Lionesses game, because like the Lionesses, I think if we drag this game on into extra time, like it does feel like the longer the game goes on, the more likely it is that Spain will end up with the win. And that sounds really like pessimistic. But I just think Spain have it in them to kind of do that and just, yeah. And I think as well for them to overcome, like there's not very many hurdles left for Spain to overcome in the kind of last maybe three years even, they've achieved so much.

15:43Chloe: And I think obviously the Euros is the trophy they really want to get their hands on. But to have beaten Germany for the first time, to have gotten to a Euros final for the first time, like there are two big things to shake off and to be able to say you've done and to just add to your confidence. So, yeah, I think they're going to be really buoyed by the fact that they've got to this final. And, you know, while I maybe expected a little bit of nerves in the semifinal, I'm not sure they'll necessarily be there in the final. I think they know the opponent inside out. they'll relish the occasion.

16:18Chloe: They'll have looked at England's form across this tournament and think, actually, we might be all right here. So, yeah, I think that's quite a scary prospect.

16:26Rachel: So this is the first time Germany have failed to win a Euro semifinal since 1993. They'd won their last seven Euro semifinals that they've been in. But do we think this tournament is going to be considered a success? I mean, for me, I think, yes. I think, like you said, the group stages hadn't gone particularly to plan. But I think the quarterfinals, the semifinals, I think they've held a really good account of themselves. I think, you know, they have been up against it. You've got Julia Gwynn coming off. I mean, they had a red card in the last game. Like, they have been. They've faced some tough opposition in their route through as well.

17:00Rachel: And I think actually, yeah, I would say it's a success. I don't think there was anything that I'd pick up on and say, well, actually, this wasn't the expectation of Germany. I mean, a final would have been a bonus, but semis is a great result.

17:12Chloe: I think based off the group stage performance and the manner of their quarterfinal and semifinal performance has changed a lot of minds. Because before that, after the Sweden loss, German press were not happy. Like they were absolutely slating, not happy about how Germany were performing. So I think actually the manner of their win in the quarterfinals, their performance last night will have changed minds. And, you know, I appreciate that they had red cards and stuff. And I kind of feel like we've looked back on that a little bit, being like, oh, poor Germany. Those two things are things that are in your control.

17:54Chloe: That's poor discipline. And that's something they should be disappointed about. You know, the injury is absolute nightmare. Difficult thing that happens in a major tournament and a very difficult thing to manage. So to then be ill-disciplined twice is not great. So I think that will be a frustration because, yes, like playing the way they did against France down to 10, phenomenal, but you shouldn't have been down to 10 for that foul. It was stupid. So, you know, it is that kind of balance. I think it very much depends on what the media are like over there. There's definite positives to take from that performance.

18:27Chloe: I think perhaps they'll look at that and say, OK, we've gone through this maybe bit of a transitional period. We've got a new manager in. We're building. And this is something we can build on. and that grit and resilience sometimes is hard to coach and train until you've gone through it. So actually the experience of the quarterfinal and the semifinal I think will galvanise them as a team and be a huge learning. And I guess, yeah, that's not something you can work on on the training pitch, right? Like that's something you just have to go through. So I think that'll be really valuable.

18:58Rachel: No, definitely a good account of themselves this tournament. But before we go for a break, during the game it was announced that this is officially the most well-attended Euros ever. So congratulations to everyone who managed to get a ticket and made those attendance figures record breaking and incredibly historic, including you, Rach. So well done for that, mate. Coming up after this, we look ahead to Sunday's final and answer some of your questions.

19:34Rachel: Hi, Pod fans. Max here. Barry's here too. Hello. And now the Premier League is back, Barry, meaning we'll be providing incredibly astute analysis three times a week wherever you get your podcasts. Barry, with the remaining 10 seconds of this advert, can you provide some astute analysis? I think Arsenal are going to win the Premier League. And there you are. For more hot takes like that, watch or listen to Football Weekly wherever you get your podcasts. This is Nick and Jack from The Best One Yet, and we are excited to tell you about Walmart business. Staying ahead of business trends means moving fast and adapting quickly.

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20:22Rachel: It's Walmart built for your business. Sign up for a free Walmart business account today at business.walmart.com. Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun. An army hung on her every word. My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana. Twas a lovely SUV, an inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it. Tonight, we feast. An offer you can feast on. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up these mail. Bye.

21:05Rachel: so we'll be previewing the final on Saturday's episode of course but we wanted to answer some of your burning questions after last night's semi-final thank you so much to everyone who sent one in um first off we've got one from the Football Ramble Discord and remember you can sign up to the Football Ramble Patreon for ad-free editions of every single episode of Upfront as well as access to the Discord. The link is in the show notes. We had Jimmy to the B, love that name, asking, do we actually have a chance? Really great question to kick us off there. And there was a related question from Chris on Discord too.

21:40Rachel: He said, has this Germany game made us feel better about our chances? I mean, do we actually have a chance? 100 % we do. Every team has a chance. Yeah, 100%. We're not going into this as the underdogs, I don't think. I think it's a get no no yeah I yeah I disagree I think of the two England are the underdogs Rachel take that back no I don't know I don't agree with that I think it's a really finely balanced game in the same way that yes I think obviously there's been a Spain dominance but like Spain in the Germany game I was thinking actually it's going to be sort of fairly finely balanced either one of those teams could go through I think if I was going to say on balance like a 51 52 percent who's going to win i probably like logically think it would be spain but i think it is a very 50 50 matchup like we've speak we've seen england and spain go head to head countless times this past year the results have been completely a mixed bag i think we've seen england beat spain in euros before to get to the the semi-finals wasn't it it was in the quarter finals um and i just i don't know there's something about tournament football that just produces these unexpected you don't know what's going to happen kind of moments and I think especially in finals obviously it didn't go to plan for the the World Cup it but at the same time yeah look at this look at the strength of what we can produce but then the part of me is like god look at the results that we've actually had in this tournament and how we've played and how many issues that we've had and how we haven't really problem solved in games and actually I think I'm I'm actually, I'm kind of, I'm steering myself out of being confident, right?

23:20Rachel: You've done that to me, mate.

23:21Chloe: I think the world champions are always the favourites in the follow-up Euros. Like, Spain have been favourites since the start of the tournament, throughout the tournament, they've been favourites. That doesn't change because it's England at the final. The same way that England were favourites in the World Cup final, even though they didn't have a brilliant World Cup, they were European champions, they were up against Spain, they were the favourites. I just think that's not a huge surprise. I think the fact that, you know, I think for England, seeing Spain challenged in the way they were against Germany will give them confidence as well.

23:51Chloe: I think Germany exposed some areas, exploited some areas and showed what you needed, I think, to perhaps get at Spain being that gritty, resilient, determined, disciplined. And it's a hard thing to be. And it's a hard thing to be after 107 minutes playing with 10 players against France, which I actually think, and I said it in the pod, was quite good preparation for Germany to know how to be out of possession and really disciplined. I think England, I think both teams know each other. I think that's a really interesting thing. And I know everyone's going to look back at how they've played so far, etc, etc.

24:27Chloe: Tournament football is a different beast to club football. like form isn't really that not that it's not important but like once you're at a final nothing else matters whatever's gone before doesn't matter no one's thinking about how they played against France they're not sat in the hotel still reviewing the France game or thinking about the Netherlands or could they have scored more against Wales none of that is in their minds like all they're thinking about is Spain the next game single game one game knockout game so anything can happen I think if you're looking at form of both teams throughout the tournament yes, you're going to think Spain are definitely favourites, in my opinion.

25:04Chloe: I think the win for them in the semi-final, getting to a final for the first time, all big things that are going to give them a real boost. Both have played extra time, which I think is really interesting. But we do have an extra day of recovery. That's what I was about to say. England have an extra day of recovery. You're going to take all the little small things from wherever you can get them. All of those little percentages are massive. you know I think maybe Mariona will be spilling all the secrets about the players that she knows about about Chloe Kelly, about Beth Mead you know I think as well you've got to factor in like England came into this with like and maybe this is something that's forgotten a little bit but with three players where you were like thank God they're back in time right like in terms of fitness in terms of how much game time they've had and they've been quite integral to England in this tournament which I think has been quite impressive.

25:59Chloe: Then you've got players who were playing right up until the Champions League final, didn't have that much time off. Same with Spain, right? You've got players who've played right up until the Champions League final. God, they must be tired. Like part of me thought, if this game goes to extra time, we're going to have like a walking final, a walking football final. And then both sides will just agree to like, let's just play this first half at 50%. And obviously Spain don't have that in their locker. They only go like one speed and that's 100 miles an hour. So, yeah, I think it's an intriguing one.

26:30Chloe: It's a single game. It's an isolated game. There's always favourites. Anything can happen. For me, I do think Spain are more likely and I'd very happily be wrong.

26:39Rachel: I think, weirdly enough, the Germany game has made me feel, at least, a lot worse about our chances. I think it's like the point that you were making before, Rach, about the patience that Spain have and that kind of belief, I think, that at some point they will break through and they will create a chance that's going to result in a goal. And I think, obviously, like with England, we've seen how drawn out the games can become, how England, I think the more they grow into the game sometimes and get frustrated that they haven't scored a goal, I think sometimes that seems to almost deflate them or we have seen it deflate them in the past.

27:11Rachel: I know, obviously, you said there is a clean slate for finals, but I think it's going to be, if there is that deadlock and there is that frustration and we are seeing that nil-nil result starting to creep into like a 70 or an 80 minutes, which way is it going to take you? Is it going to take you in the Spain direction, which is it spurs you on? Or is it going to take you in the England direction, which I think there was a creeping sense of dejectedness as the game was happening. And then as soon as you get to the absolute dying minutes, the really critical minutes, like last gasp of Thames, that's when I think we've seen England then pick it up and go, fucking hell, we've got a matter of seconds left.

27:44Rachel: We need to do something.

27:46Chloe: I'd like to think a final against Spain is not something you're going to be passive and not brave in. and I think they'll recognise that. I mean, we'll have to chat a bit. If you look at a question from Hannah here on Instagram, how do you think England will shape up? And we can go into more detail in the preview. In an ideal world, I would love Serena to go rogue, three at the back, two up front, two number nines essentially, I think would be difficult for Spain to handle. Starting Lesse, maybe starting Adjumang, I just think would make it more difficult. and then having that

28:21Rachel: I love how you come around to an Aji Mang start

28:23Chloe: I love it at this stage win the game fucking early I can't do another one of these things like way waiting until the last it would be interesting to see though

28:30Rachel: Aji Mang start it would be her first

28:32Chloe: like but you know what even if she doesn't start just two up front would be so interesting in terms of like and then having a three like a five at the back out of possession gives you that extra defensive cover I just think would be really interesting but do you think maybe we're just going to see like I don't know the same team that lined up against France

28:50Rachel: I mean, we know what Serena can be like in terms of consistency. And like we have seen pretty much the same lineup for the past three games. Obviously, we did have Esme Morgan dropping in for Carter. But I think I don't think I see any kind of particular changes. And I think we do have a question in are we worried? This is from Jamie on X. Are we worried about LJ's fitness? And I think this kind of feeds into like the changes that we could see happening. if LJ isn't fit then yes I do see obviously someone coming in to replace that or maybe even Ella Toon coming in to kind of go further up top and then bringing a midfielder in Depends on the formation doesn't it

29:29Chloe: and I think it also depends on how England want to approach the game and whether they want to draw it out and try and stop Spain scoring and then bring on a game changer and LJ is a game changer she's the key that can unlock defences or whether you want to be creative and trying to go for goals earlier on and maybe not put us all through this incredibly stressful watching of a football match. And you want to do that early. So the thing is, I'm not sure if LJ will necessarily... Look, I hope her foot's okay. She's had two knocks on it now. And that's another example. That's a player that came in who we weren't sure would be able to play 90 minutes.

30:08Chloe: That's a really important player for England, which is kind of forgotten about a little bit. So she may not be fully fit. I guess it's knowing when to play that card. And that will be really interesting.

30:21Rachel: No, definitely. And I think obviously a lot of people have been calling for Chloe Kelly to start. That could also be an alternative. I didn't think Beth Mead was that effective up top when she came in for the last game. Do you know what, though?

30:32Chloe: She was so good when she had to play out of position. She played in 10 at one point. I think what I thought she did really well when she had to just do a job that wasn't her job. And I think you get that from a player like Beth Mead, which was super impressive. Like people were calling for Lauren Hemp to be off the pitch in the first half. Suddenly she's playing left wing back and she was so important in that position. So, yeah, it makes it super interesting. I think the thing about Chloe Kelly is she gets an awful lot of energy about being the one that's going to come on and change the game. And I don't know if you'll get that energy when you're starting.

31:09Chloe: start yeah whereas if you can say to her right we need you to come on and change the game she's like stand out of my way I got this and I think that's quite important come on yeah I think that's quite

31:18Rachel: important for her I think the same thing a little bit at the moment with Michelle Adjimang I think there's like a pairing that we're starting to see about like and the crowd obviously as soon as they start to see them warming up there's like a galvanization with the crowd and the fans like starting to get excited about like the prospect of what they can do and because the expectation has been high on them both but then they're delivered on both occasions the expectation is going to be even higher going into this game are they again brought on as impact subs so I do think they're a little bit of a back pocket kind of player I kind of like you pull them out they you're kind of aces I suppose but at the same time I do see a Chloe Kelly star I see a little bit of change around depending on what's happening with LJ so pending we've got another question in from Shabu on Instagram could less possession actually benefit England as it reduces their vulnerability to counter attacks?

32:06Rachel: That's a really nice question. It is.

32:08Chloe: And I think it's, this kind of happened in the World Cup and it happened in the quarterfinal of the Euros is that, you know, people love a team that play possession. They just think it's the most incredible thing. It's so difficult to play without the ball and to be switched on for 90 minutes without the ball. That is such a difficult thing to do. And that's why Spain pull teams apart because teams find it very, very difficult to be switched on mentally to be able to do that, but also fit enough to do that. Arguably, England should be fit enough to do that. They know, they've done it before, they know how to play without the ball.

32:41Chloe: My concern a little bit is they switched on for 90 minutes, potentially 120 minutes, because I think there have been lapses at times, particularly defensively for England in this tournament. So yes, I guess it does reduce that potential of counter-attack. It's whether if they're playing back four, your full backs are getting up too high, Spain are going to absolutely capitalise on that if Lucy's disappeared off the pitch. You think back to that World Cup where she lost the ball in a really difficult area for England. And straight away, Spain were like, cool, there's a space, ping, goal. So it's that discipline and it's, you know, cutting out the opportunities, preventing those spaces for Spain to play into.

33:27so yeah potentially I think you know we saw it with the Italy game where England were pushing

33:34Chloe: for a goal and leave spaces in behind and better teams can capitalize on that but it's yeah are they going to start the game to try and get goals or are they going to sit and then go for the

33:42Rachel: counter I think we've seen so much success though from teams who have brought the game to Spain like we saw a little bit with the Switzerland game and kind of how they came out of the blocks kind of wanting to press and kind of go all guns blazing I appreciate that's not something that can be sustained for the entire 90 minutes against a Spain squad but like that has been effective in periods of attack throughout the games but I think the issue is I suppose with England not having as much possessions and you don't then have enough possession to create chances yourself so 100 % understand there has to be like a patience with the Spain squad and that you're not going to get as much of the ball as you would have liked like chances are Spain are going to have at least maybe 60 % of the possession on a good day but at the same time then you really have to kind of focus on when you're going to create those chances and how they're going to happen.

34:26Rachel: Yeah. And I think we've seen that vulnerability with Spain kind of committing bodies forwards and going up and kind of, you know, creating those counterattacking moments. But you've really got to then rely on those moments to kind of, because you have to score, like you have to score to win. Like unless you want to take this to penalties, you have to be creating those chances. And like that's it at the end of the day. It's what happened to Germany. Yeah, all day. So I think, yes, I think you're less susceptible to goals, but in terms of actually creating those chances, reduces your actual likelihood of scoring.

34:54Rachel: That's the problem, shall we? We've got another question in from DeadFox on the Football Rumble Discord. Do we reckon Sazie Veegs stays regardless of the result? We did have a spicy pre-pod chat about this one because there has been a lot of narrative about, you know, the way in which the Lionesses have been playing recently. I think in the past year, we have obviously seen some quite inconsistent performances. People not thinking that the Lionesses are performing to the standard that they expect from them. Obviously, I think the expectation on the Lionesses has been super, incredibly, almost like heroic, godlike status high since the Euro 2022.

35:30Rachel: And I think obviously there were some super good performances in the Women's World Cup. But there was also, even though we got to the final, there was also a lot of criticism about the way in which we got there. And I think I see the same narratives with this competition, that we've managed to get to our third successive major tournament final. But at the same time, the way in which we've got there isn't good enough. And I think a lot of people say, well, actually, like we had a, you know, the group stage was fairly, you know, fairly difficult. And then we had the Netherlands. It was, yeah, we had the Netherlands and France, obviously strong opposition there.

36:01Rachel: Essentially, you know, our route, I suppose, up from the group stage to the final has been a little bit, not easier. But like if you'd have picked teams out of the hat that you would have wanted England to face, you probably would have chosen a couple of them. But at the same time, does that... You could say the same for Spain. Yeah, 100%. But do you think this is enough to kind of ask questions about Serena's leadership and the way in which she's managed the squad over the few years that she's been in charge now?

36:29Chloe: No. I think sometimes we get so, because our jobs are to break down games and why teams are playing this way or not that way and why they're not perfect all the time. and we get so into the weeds of it. And what's been quite nice about this tournament, not that social media is often a nice place, but there's been a lot of people who perhaps don't watch the Lionesses all of the time and don't watch women's football all of the time and have come on and been like, bloody hell, we're in another major tournament final. This is incredible. Like who gets that? Who gets to, see, unless you're the USA, you know, when they were at every major tournament, you know, winning things, incredible.

37:10Chloe: that is such a rarity and it's really nice kind of see it's so refreshing to see people being like this is amazing like this is England have not been in anything less than a semi-final in a major tournament since 2015 that's an incredible feat and for a manager Serena Viegman five major tournament finals in a row is incredible like surely she's got to be one of the best managers out there so for me I think yes I understand the scrutiny I understand they haven't played their best football they haven't played brilliantly and that happens in tournament football sometimes. I think sometimes there's an expectation of form in tournament football needs to be perfect and that's just not the case sometimes.

37:50Chloe: Tournament football is a different beast. You get your tactics wrong sometimes. You get player injuries sometimes. Sometimes the other team are just better and they have your number tactically. The fact is England are still getting through and still winning games and are still in a final. That should be the thing that's the most important thing ultimately. We're going to turn around to a manager and be like, I'm sorry, it's just not good enough that you've got to a final for the third time. So actually, we're going to terminate your contract. I think if Serena leaves, it's going to be on Serena's terms.

38:18Chloe: And I think whatever happens, even if they're battered, Serena has earned the right to choose when she goes. Because she won England, their first major tournament, and got into a World Cup final. Like, I don't know how you can be unhappy with how they have, I guess, grown in such a short space of time.

38:41Rachel: Just playing devil's advocate, though, on the fact that Serena has reached the final with the squad, there's definitely been moments in the game where we've had to both question the decisions that Serena's made. So, for example, not bringing on subs until the 85th minute in the last game. I mean, that was a really risky roll of the dice. And that was a pure moment of magic that kind of created that opportunity. Likewise, really, with the Sweden game as well. So, you know, there does feel like there's an element of luck there that we could have been out in the quarterfinals very, very easily. I don't necessarily think that, and that's kind of almost not because Serena did that.

39:20Rachel: Do you know what I mean?

39:21Chloe: I understand that. And I think, like teams, managers aren't going to get every decision right all the time, and their backroom staff aren't going to get every decision right all the time. I think the expectation for every single tactic to be spot on every single time is naive. You know, at the end of the day, they're human. They're reacting to what's happening in front of them. You know, arguably games don't go to your game plan. How do you react to that? Teams who haven't challenged in the past are challenging now. How do you adapt to that? And I think it's a constant learning. You know, yes, they've won a major tournament.

39:53Yes, she's gotten to five finals in a row.

39:56Chloe: Everyone else hasn't stayed the same. Everyone else's levels have increased. Manager's levels have increased. Tactics have improved. And it's a constant learning. So, yeah, it's not going to be perfect. And I think perhaps the problem is the standards and the expectations are so high now that nothing less will do. And the fact that England are not playing well and still in a final. And, yeah, you can call it luck. But if you're going to apply luck to England, you can go across loads of teams during the tournament and say, what if this didn't happen? What if that didn't happen? What if Germany had missed that penalty?

40:25Chloe: What if AKB hadn't made that save? You know, you can't just attribute luck to one team and forget everybody else's journey. So, yeah, I think have England been lucky in the manner that they've got through? Absolutely. But that's tournament football and they're still through. So I just, yeah, for me, I find that a really unusual narrative. And I've seen people who aren't from England being like, how are you questioning this? Like, what is wrong with you guys? Like, you're in a final again.

40:53Rachel: Like, just enjoy it for Christ's sake. it's never enough it's like the weather we're not happy when it's sunny and we're not happy when it's raining yes awful we're back on Saturday to preview the final in more detail it is the last pod before squeaky bum moment on Sunday night we cannot wait follow us on socials we're at upfront underscore pod I'm at morgy underscore 89 and Rach is at girls on the ball remember make sure you hit subscribe so that you never miss an episode from us Rach you've got a couple of free days off before the final what are you going to get up to in Switzerland. Come on.

41:26Rachel: Tell us what you're doing.

41:28Chloe: Still got a bit of work over the couple of days but we're moving up to Basel once we've wrapped this podcast so I need to pack and I don't know I might try and float down a river again or something.

41:39Rachel: Oh nice. There's a thing called

41:40Chloe: like a Winklefish that they use in Basel. I think it's a Winklefish.

41:43Rachel: You've been throwing around some weird names. Yeah and it's this little like waterproof

41:48Chloe: it's a waterproof bag that you put all your stuff in and then you use as a float down the river. Okay. so yeah

41:55Rachel: I might get out of town well don't drift off because we still do have the show on Saturday if I get lost

42:00Chloe: I'm probably in some you know water duct somewhere in the middle of Switzerland I might travel all the way to Germany or France I don't know look as much as I love

42:08Rachel: hearing the sound of my own voice a 40 minute monologue on the preview game because you've gone off down the river and got yourself missing you can do that Irish accent that you do so well oh yeah I'll just do both like oh welcome to our front I'm Chloe Morgan and I'm Rachel O'Sullivan oh that was so good you sounded like on that note see you on saturday up front is a stack production and part of the a-cast creator network

43:03Rachel: www.fema.org

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