Spicy controversy at the Emirates and Aston Villa stun Man United

0:28Welcome to Up Front, I'm Chloe Morgan. speaking of big wins London City line as is roared to victory against Spurs putting four past their city rivals they've consolidated their position in the top half of the table under just three points off of the top four

0:51Rach welcome back to the studio I know it's nice isn't it it's so lovely in here the weather outside is fucking abysmal I thought you were going to say frightful no it is The studio's so delightful. It's disgusting out there. I limed by it here, took my life into my own hands and made it safely. And the whole reason I kind of really felt this momentum to get into the studio today was to celebrate a massive moment in yours and Sophie's life. This is why you came in. I celebrate four years, really, as your significant third person. But you guys are celebrating 15 years as a couple. So congratulations.

1:23That's so long, isn't it? That's so big, Laura. I'm getting a little clap. Yeah, come on. you're officially the longest lesbian couple in a relationship yeah one in the world and two that I know of so that's also I think it's Ellen DeGeneres and Portia De Rossi then me and Sophie that's the ranking what about Bird and Rapina what's that is that a few years I'm just going to put it out there and say it's a fact that's how facts work now right you just say it yeah that is the kind of time and era that we're in if you put it on social media and just say it then it's true I really wanted that to be my moment of the weekend but we're going to make them football related.

1:57It only makes sense. I appreciate the love though. So go on, go for your moment. I'm going to just give Kelly Gago's goal a nod just because it was such a cheeky little deft round the court, like behind her, little flick into the goal that finished off a lovely move and I think it deserves a little bit of love. And the other one I wanted to do because when it happened, I immediately thought to myself, this is going to be my moment of the weekend. So as you know, I often have headphones in at games because I'm like keeping an eye on other games. I do. I like to kind of hear what's going on and you know especially in those really loud environments I'll turn on maybe my noise cancellation because it just reduces that piercing whistling kind of irritating noise and still when Frieda Monum scored the goal that wasn't that would have been Arsenal 2-1 I felt the roar in my chest like never mind hearing it I literally felt the vibrations in my chest and it made me think of when England scored that second goal against Germany and Wembley you know you literally felt the noise and it was like oh my god the roof if there had been one would have been lifted off um and then it was obviously very quickly deflated but that atmosphere was so good and like i had the chelsea fans behind me and they were giving it socks the whole way through the game and it just it gave such a cool atmosphere at the stadium so that was that was great it was they never like those moments never kind of ceased to like give me goosebumps it was explosive it was absolutely explosive and it was a beautiful like sunny wintry day in the emirates dreadful for photography but dreadful photography but vibes was 100 % and like 55, 55, 56 ,000 people crammed into the stadium.

3:28The scarves that exploded. I have never seen a role like it. Like it was quite nice to be in that atmosphere and like experience it in that way. But, and obviously like what it meant for Arsenal and going into the game, how they felt like underdogs. We will talk about the game in a second, but I would also like to pick my moment of the weekend. It was a really lovely moment just before the game actually started. They brought on a few of the OG Arsenal players. You had Rachel Yankee there you had a player from about 30 or 40 years ago who was part of like the original Arsenal squad even before it was called Arsenal and she was also an RAF she was in the RAF as well as part of the Firefly so she was part of like the Remembrance Service as well which is really lovely they did the final post and that was a really kind of moving touching moment as well at the Emirates so it was just the general vibe of the atmosphere but it was really nice to kind of pay tribute to you know some of the people who got to Arsenal to where they were today and those moments were very nicely observed by all home teams across the league this week really really gorgeous but we have to get stuck into what happened to the game, Rach because it was the spiciest game.

4:25I was on co-coms and like sometimes I got to halftime and I was thinking, God, if this game is going to be exactly like the first half, I don't know how to keep on saying the same thing over again. Arsenal creating chances not taking them. Chelsea not playing well but still winning. 100%. What would we say on the pod? It kind of felt a little bit Groundhog Day going into the second half and then the most controversial game of the season exploded into my eyeballs. A game that many are saying should have finished 3-1 to Arsenal. There's a lovely video of Renee Sleggers walking up to the referees and shaking her head at them without saying anything while shaking hands.

4:56And then obviously there was a little bit of finger pointing as well and there was a lot of shaking and not very impressed people. Beth Meade did that as well coming off the pitch. I caught that she was being substituted a bit of a wagging the finger at the fourth official. Let me tell you something. There was a lot of emotions post-match, especially with Sleggers. She said a lot of respect for referees because it's not easy. We're looking at video. If you ask me we need justice and that's why i think var technology can help sonia bonpasta agreed with that um let's talk about the first opening minutes but then let's we need to start somewhere before we get stuck into the unfolding what happened we should we should talk about the football because frustratingly the headlines are about the refereeing and var and everything else and actually it was a really enjoyable game of football for the neutral to just kind of sit back and watch these two teams go at each other and i really enjoyed the build-up both managers spoke about how good training had been that week.

5:50And it seemed to be a theme across a number of teams saying this has been some of the best training we've had this week. So whatever was happening in mid-November, it seemed to be clicking for teams. But you're right. First half, I kind of thought, this is going to be the same story again. And, you know, I thought Arsenal took... And what was funny was, Erin Cuthbert spoke to her last week. She expected Arsenal to come out quickly. She's like, we know we're going to have to weather a storm. They always come out quickly at the Emirates. Uh-uh. It was the other way around. They did kind of a little bit, though.

6:17There wasn't moments of high press. Yeah, but Arsenal do that anyway. I felt like first 15 minutes or so, they were trying to figure out Chelsea. I don't know whether they expected Chelsea to start with a back three or what that might have been. Took a little while for them to figure it out. I thought the midfield felt very exposed because obviously Kim Little was injured. So it just felt too front footed. It was lacking that kind of defensive mindset. You'll see that from the Alyssa Thompson goal where she just, they parted like the Red Sea and she just ran on through at a hundred miles an hour.

6:43Well, that is one thing I definitely want to talk about. She celebrated her 21st birthday the day before. I know it's madness. We can't talk about how old we are again. But it was, it did feel like every time she got the ball, she kind of felt like one of those target players. You get the ball, you look up, Millie Bright looks at her, Alyssa Thompson, get the ball to her, and then she runs into space. She creates so much chaos and franticness from Arsenal. People are afraid to tackle her. I think it's that, which is wild, because she's quite slight in frame. You think, you could barge her body off the ball, but she's solid as well.

7:11And then she laid out the ball to the right-hand side, received the ball back and then a beautiful dink over the head of Daphne Van Domsala she was not expecting it she was a little way off of her line um in a way I think I I've tried to have a look at this a few times and I think she was kind of off her line anticipating that she'd have to go out and meet the ball at some point like maybe like it was going to be like a shot that she could block like use her body and kind of narrow down the angle and kind of do that but at the same time the technique on Alyssa Thompson he struck first time the loop on it and it just arched down beautifully it was absolutely perfect i kind of wondered if uh dvd had thought she was closer to her line because she just didn't seem to react or make any movement to step backwards to kind of combat the flight of the ball so it was almost like she thought it was gonna i thought she thought she thought it was gonna go over because she thought she was closer to her line and it was almost like as it reached the peak of its arc she was like i am further out than i thought that's going in the go do you know that kind of way it just seemed to it just seemed to hang in the air for so long and there was like no reaction to this like I it was a beautiful beautiful goal that technique to do that though and spot her off her line so quickly 100 % I thought she was like the spiciest character in the Chelsea line then I thought obviously like we've spoken again about like how teams are the most vulnerable after they've scored I was expecting Chelsea to like pick up the ball go again I was like you can't rely on a one you can't rely on a 1-0 lead there were a couple of really good opportunities from Arsenal there was one from the corner that kind of deflected off of Erin Cuthbert she tried to clear it she spoofed it kind of with the outside of her foot and Hampton kind of like just managed to get it or so.

8:41But yeah, it just didn't. It felt like they were kind of inviting trouble by just allowing Arsenal to play around in the back. But I think the only winning grace or the only thing that kind of saved them was that there was that Arsenal just weren't clinical enough. And I don't mean clinical enough in front of goal, but clinical enough in like really basic passing. Like even someone like Mariona Caldente, you're thinking, everyone knows that you're like one of the best players in the world. But even her dinking a ball out to the right hand side, like on you know no pressure on her at all it's going off yeah for a for a I just that's what I couldn't understand there just wasn't they were almost masked with their own downfall a little bit and I do think it was a combination of Chelsea sat off a bit but I also think Arsenal grew into the game and recognized okay we figure this out now they started engaging their press much much better and with both Blackstenius and Russo on the pitch they're both so good at engaging that press and reading each other really well and Beth Mead I think as well and Caitlin Ford I thought Caitlin Ford had the doing of Lucy Bronze every single time.

9:40Oh, it was. But that end product was lacking and that decision making was lacking. And, you know, there was one great example where she took off up the sideline. You know, I think she got around Lucy Bronze and she just needed to lift her head. There were three Arsenal players in the box. She just needed to take that quick look. But she was like, I've gotten around to get the ball in. And I went straight through absolutely everybody and over the other side. And it just kind of encapsulated Arsenal's season a little bit where they get into positions and then they don't make quality chances out of them.

10:08I also think some of that was down to how high Chelsea were engaging defensively. So they were defending from the front where they were trying to prevent Arsenal penetrating into the Chelsea box. And actually, they were getting in and around it. But because the players were dropping back and defending from the front, it was making it so difficult for them then to make those connecting passes. So a combination, I think, of both Arsenal putting the foot on the gas, Chelsea defending quite well. I thought Natalie Bjorn had a great game. You could tell she knows Stina Blackstenius. And they were finding Stina.

10:39And she was like trying to get around the defence. It was like Natalie Bjorn was like, I know what you're going to do here. I'm keeping with you. I'm keeping you out wide. I'm making those last-ditch tackles. And I thought she stood out for me in the Chelsea back line. Yeah, definitely. A bit of a scary moment for her in the opening minutes as well, where she kind of went down. And I was thinking, oh, God. I think she might have clashed with Stina. I had them in my lens because it almost seemed like it happened off the ball and I don't know if Stina caught the back of her ankle accidentally I don't know what it was but yeah it was a moment there where you were like if they lose Bjorn that could be a real problem This is early days Well talking of Stina let's we've got to discuss the goal Start of the second half Stina Blacksini is scoring what the whole stadium thought was an equaliser whole stadium erupted it was absolute chaos flags, banners everything shouting, screaming songs are going off it's like the whole track was done and dusted everything everyone was on their feet it was incredible and then the referee rules that she controlled it with her hand from uh so it kind of it goes in from the corner it kind of bounces off a player that reaches her and then she like boots it into the into the roof of the net there was absolutely nothing the keeper could have done about it at all the replays have shown that it's come off of a hit but there was a period of time for about five minutes where the ref didn't call it and then pulled it long it felt it felt like forever because everyone everyone in the co-coms was saying well i don't i don't know quite what's happened or what how it's been called back because there was just no we were seeing the replay of like the goal but we were like okay there's no issue here so like what what's happened something happened off the pitch I assumed it was offside yeah I I couldn't work it out at all um super super controversial obviously it agitated the crowd to to no extent René Slaggers obviously feeling very aggrieved about it and the players feeling very aggrieved you could feel it um I think the you know 54 and a half thousand people watched it and said that's definitely a goal maybe some Chelsea fans are like no maybe something maybe it was a handball I don't know nobody seemed to be calling for a handball including Lucy Bronze and Millie Bright who are closer to Stina than you and I are right now and we are about a metre away from each other no protests there was nobody was calling for it and in the time it took because I didn't actually see the ref blow the whistle give the goal not give the goal whatever it was it just seemed to be this really long extended period of Arsenal celebration Chelsea were down like frustrated walking back towards the halfway line like na na na na played out entirely like everything like we were fine the flags were waving the flag bearers were like okay we've done the celebration put the flags down and then it seemed like there was a collective huh?

13:04from the crowd when Chelsea lined up for a goal kick so for me in that instance you can't be 100 % sure you've seen something that hasn't happened firstly but if you're not sure sometimes there is a case of reading the cues nobody is protesting a handball that might tell you that there wasn't a handball particularly you telling me lucy bronze and millie bright if there was even a sniff of a handball process all day absolutely i mean in the women's game they give handballs when it hits your boob you know when that happens so annoying you'd think that our hands are like up here or something like there is often mistaken handballs and people will call for it when it's not nobody called for it so i can definitely understand the frustrations because the timing of that goal and yes people would say yeah but still even if then what about this and Pilova would have been red card and this would have been offside you don't know that all of that stuff would have happened if Arsenal had gone 1-1 at 53 odd minutes or whatever it was it would have been a very played out in a very different way so I don't buy into the yeah but even if then that you know I don't buy into that that that should have been a goal that should have stood so I can understand being aggrieved the drama didn't stop there because obviously then you have Alessio Rousseau's equalizer coming just three minutes remaining uh Chelsea fans online and I've had to have a look at this again arguing whether she was offside and to me it it does look like she probably is i mean they're difficult ones to call completely understand um but yeah obviously that that goal is even more controversial for the chelsea fans and then you have the victoria polova incident like putting in the high boot should have been here obviously i don't think there was any intention behind it but it was a dangerous tackle um and then you got the final disallowed goal um even more kind of difficult to judge without the proper lines on replay you had obviously respected commentator Robin Cowan on Sky saying that she was onside with the Niamh Charles on the far side of the pitch looking like she was playing her onside so that's another bit of kind of controversy there because Arsenal walking away from that game thinking actually we were robbed and I've kind of got to agree a little bit there and a lot of people are now saying well some of our listeners are kind of saying okay well we don't want a VAR that was like the go-to response from from what happened on the pitch and then over on the upfront group chat in the Football Ramble discord irish kev said i get the anger but how do you teach part-time refs this multi-million pound system would it not help to pay them properly first so it's kind of reopens the it's reignited and reopens the var debate it is a knee-jerk reaction we don't talk about var when we don't have controversial moments um you know and there are plenty of complaints about var the technology could do the job that is needed it's actually the application of the technology i think that tends to cause the controversy.

15:43There are a lot of areas in the game that need to be invested in. And I don't know whether VAR is top of that list when you've still got part-time referees, right? So I do think in terms of priority, we do need full-time referees. I also think they need the best tools available to them to help them do their jobs to the best of their ability. There are going to be human errors. They are going to happen. They're not always going to be caught. VAR isn't necessarily going to catch all of them. So it's not just some magic fix. but I'd also say there are other tools that are more cost effective and less intrusive that could also be considered too and that are being trialed in football elsewhere and I spoke about it after the under-17s the VAR light the video referral system which doesn't require as much manpower it doesn't require as many cameras allows for teams to have two referrals if they think a decision is wrong because every team doesn't matter what ground you're at they all have iPads with the game in front of them where they can go back and rewind and look at things and re-watch that is possible in whatever ground they're being played out in the WSL and you've got the new Apple contract as well more tech in the WSL yeah coming but the point is that access is readily available the idea of VAR light with that you don't need more cameras what you do have is essentially a laptop where the referee can go over and check something back re-watch stuff back right very easy you don't need a whole room full of people and if you get the referral right literally what would happen is say that happened and that goal was disallowed Renee Steggers will go up to the fourth official and say I want to refer that I want the referee to come back and look at that because we believe that decision is wrong he tells the fourth the ref the ref immediately comes over looks back on the laptop and goes that was not a handball goal stands right so it's not this kind of process where everything plays out you're about to kick off and then the VIR team go oh this might not be right we need to look at this from 17 angles and then once we've looked at it from 17 angles then we'll go to the ref and go actually now can you go and look at it from and you're like five minutes later so it's much quicker we also had someone message about what they do in rugby, TMO.

17:39Things are played out live on the big screen for the referee to watch. It also provides that clarity for fans in the stadium where we're all looking at it. It's interesting, isn't it? But you're seeing what's happening. You're seeing whether it's controversial or not. You've got a clear idea of why the referee's making the decision they're making. So there are other options. We don't immediately have to go down the VAR route. But I do think priorities-wise, yes, we do need full-time referees as well. I don't think it's either one or the other either. you know you could be investing in both perhaps we could have goal line technology for example which is you know what's that semi-automatic offside whatever the hell it's called there's so many little bits that could just contribute to making those decisions a little bit easier for the referees to make 100 i think when you look at so i was trying to look at the actual cost of implementing this and like in terms of like the priority list so you're looking at about 12 million pounds roughly in the for the league to kind of implement this and obviously you've got to maybe factor in there's going to be an extra couple of million for like stadiums that just are nowhere near the standard of like your emirates or whatever it is so like that's the kind of cost that you think could be implemented into like you said kind of training up the referees and bringing them up to standard or other forms of technology like the WSL does feel like it's more creative it's kind of coming up with new ways to do things like this playoff system and things like that so I do think it is on the cards but I think you have to look at like the impact of what this decision actually means or the lack of getting this these decisions right actually means because we all have come so accustomed to Chelsea winning the league like this is one of those moments that you think okay well if Arsenal had a taken is it going to come down to that point is it going to come down to the end of the the title race being that one point that Arsenal those two points that Arsenal missed out on getting potentially like the point that Arsenal actually that Chelsea actually won like you you just don't know or is that going to be the difference between Arsenal making the Champions League like it's the the monetary impact the significant impact that it has and the players not being able to have these experiences because of decisions like this like it's so flipping key so I think that's like my gripe yeah about it but also at the same time what I do want to say like I know this is kind of reignited there's been so much anger and frustration at the referees they're obviously doing their absolute best on the pitch like no one goes into a no referee goes into a game thinking I'm gonna absolutely shit up this game yeah like you just don't like you know you're gonna get so much backlash you know there's gonna be potentially the abuse that comes off the back of that what I didn't like and I know people are going to say oh you're infantilizing the game and things like that but I really didn't like the crowd like there's three women walking off the pitch like they know that there's some controversial calls that had to be made there was booing there was shouting there was taunts there was all kinds of things and I know that a part of that is yeah it's the drama of the game like this is what you want you want people to you know pledge their allegiance to you know Arsenal you want people to be tribal in like how they're feeling like you know to to create those kind of atmospheres but also at the same time you have to think about the atmosphere that you're creating for those people who have to do that job and like even like the the young girls and boys in those in those in those stadiums thinking why the hell would you ever want to become a referee when you're faced with like that much like hatred and abuse and I just I just think like there's ways of doing things I agree 100 % arming them in the right way to make sure those decisions like the the bad decisions are less and less but let's just give a thought for the actual people behind the decisions like they're not they're not Chelsea fans all right they've just gone out and tried to do their job and and yeah got it wrong but I think yeah I it just felt uncomfortable for me what I found interesting as well was just like some of the responses to it so when BBC Women's Football Show came out they decided to draw their own lines and they decided definitively that this was offside and this is offside I'm like you can't definitively draw those lines because we haven't got the right camera angle so you can't be definitive about something when you're drawing a line from behind do you know what I mean so stuff like that you know even just the reaction to from the players where Chelsea players are saying like really hard fought draw Arsenal players were like should have got more out of that game I think that's quite telling as well I've even seen and this is gonna shock you go on I have seen some Chelsea fans saying Arsenal were robbed and that shocked me Christ shocked me die hard blues a bit as well honest like look maybe they were looking for engagement and that often happens that rage baiting on TikTok where you just say a really controversial thing to get engagement but I was surprised when I saw that but look it's it's again frustrating that that's who we're talking about because it was a very enjoyable match to watch and you know it was good fun.

21:54Part of me does kind of feel a bit for Renee because she looked so bereft at full time you know we've talked so many times about Arsenal creating chances and not putting the ball in the back of the fucking net just put it in the net shoot shoot the ball I can understand and I understand when you're frustrated as a manager going the game plan is working to the point where you're getting these opportunities now to put it in the goal doesn't count I'd be like do you know what here's my badge my bye I can't be doing this shit now go away out of that there was just a real kind of like I don't even know if they did a huddle straight away it just felt real like I don't even know what to say that's what it seemed like from her she just and to be fair she spoke so well afterwards in the media I'd be raging she just seemed like what do you do I had a picture there of Renee Sluggers putting her badge and her gun on the table and going her gun enough's enough now I'm done here I've done my time either way the result does mean that Chelsea's unbeaten run is now 33 games in the WSL one more will beat their own league record but Man City are top of the WSL after they beat Everton 2-1 I mean which is also a great game savour it City savour it like we all are it's just nice to see a little bit of difference this week

23:18another another big game not another one not another one Man United suffering their first defeat of the season in the WSL Aston Villa putting out such an impressive display against a top tier side after that draw against Arsenal in September they had just 36.5 % of the possession I mean, we kind of messaged each other at halftime because obviously we were talking about the controversy in the Arsenal-Chelsea game. We were. And then I said, I think we're going to be in a good position to talk about the Villa Man United game if it stays 1-0. What did I say? You said, but it probably won't stay 1-0.

23:53I'm going to probably, we can copy and paste that and get that. I'm fine with that. I stand by that. It was a... I don't know if that's controversial. It was a bit of an upset for Man United going into this one. I mean, Rach, what did you kind of make of it? Because it's good in a way. It creates jeopardy. It creates this kind of, you know, not all the top teams are going to have the easiest runs going into Christmas. And Villa, I think, despite having the possession, I think they had some really clear-cut, decent chances. Well, you say that. They had, you know, basically half the possession of Manchester United.

24:27They created 14 shots to Manchester United's 15 with three on target to Manchester United's four. So they were as efficient and effective with the ball with half the amount of possession. More efficient. They won. Well, quite. But I think what's been most interesting about these clubs is you're just seeing more of a confidence in the game plan that they're being asked to play out. They have less fear when they come up against these big teams. And, you know, your Everton's, your Villas, you're going into these games with not great records, you know, pretty poor records when you look at it. And, you know, all those stats and stuff arguably don't mean anything when the next game comes along because it's a new team.

25:04It's a new day. It's a different manager. And, you know, I'm pretty sure they were hammered 4-0 by Manchester United last season. Natalia Arroyo spoke about how much she enjoyed the way Manchester United played. It was something that she watched very closely when she first joined the WSL. But I just thought, yeah, game plan wise, they were so diligent defensively. Everyone knows their roles. They know exactly what they're doing. they're so quick on the counter-attack I think your Chastity Grant, Kirstie Hansen you know, they're so dangerous on the wings and as I said, efficient with chances and there was a moment, you know, I touched on it earlier about that Caitlin Ford moment where she got into the box and sent the cross in, you watch that Kirstie Hansen early on, maybe 20 odd minutes in, bombing it down the wing picks up the ball, looks up and sends a perfect pass to Mullet and takes a first time chance, Fallon Tullis joins saves it and I'm just like, it's those like little moments of lift the head just pick out your player they all knew where each other was going to be and it was that effectiveness of the game plan of knowing we're not going to have a lot of possession when we do we need to be good with it definitely I think that was the frustrating thing so they got themselves into like these absolutely goal scoring opportunities and then like you said that the handsome mullet kind of like this combination player was absolutely amazing to see both kind of just singing from the same hinge sheet but then that first moment like that first opportunity then just straight at Fallon Tullis Joyce you're thinking god either like that she has so little time to react putting it left or right by like half a meter or so and you've got a really good opportunity there but they then did pounce on another opportunity and getting that getting that goal I mean you could see how much it meant to them it was such a well thought out goal such a great finish Mary Taylor doesn't know what to do 100 % like it was just like kind of like disbelief almost that they'd like got themselves one nil up um completely unmarked in the box after this like weak punch from from Fallon Tullis Joyce and I've got to give her a little bit of credit like she was coming through an absolute sea of bodies to try and get something in it punched it out into another danger area and then miri taylor just like i felt really smug because in the pre-match press conference i asked natalia arroyo about the importance of set pieces um because last season they scored from two set pieces they had already before this game they had already scored from four set pieces this season and i asked her you know you're probably not gonna have a lot of possession you're coming up against a very good manchester united side who have scored more goals than anybody else in the league so far how important her set piece is going to be and she gave me a really nice answer about you know the work that's been done on them and stuff this season and what do they go and score from a set piece called it first mate so it's you know i just think game plan wise this is just as i've touched on tactically teams are getting better managers are getting better yes of course the players are there's more quality but you know just the kind of betting in of a really clear game plan players being more effective in executing the game plan believing in it you know not getting flustered when Friedelina Rolfo's running at you at 100 miles an hour like a Champions League winner they're so diligent um and I think that is going to stand to them because yes they shipped three goals against Everton but they have been quite good at defensively which was an area they struggled with last season I think it was that like United did have some like really decent efforts but it just felt like they were throwing their bodies heart and soul behind everything that was good and I thought do you know what Rachel Williams like Like how many commentators said it, press the emergency, but break glass, press emergency, get Rachel Williams on.

28:17Literally that. And I was thinking, OK, like this is this is like squeaky bum time. You've got the Rachel Williams that you've pulled that that card out of the deck. Your jokers, your jokers on the table. And then all of a sudden she pops up with like two really clear, decent chances. Aerial balls. You're thinking she's going to get her head on these and absolutely bury them. But they just they just weren't they weren't good enough, essentially. That was what was lacking was the quality of the opportunities. Man United didn't have their first shot on target, I think, until the 64th minute, maybe, which is crazy.

28:44And then, to be fair, they did have some very good kind of how it didn't go in kind of opportunities. But again, then, you know, for a Nasta Villa, the longer the game goes on, we're there in the lead. The longer they keep these balls out, the more confident they are, the more willing they are to put their bodies on the line and defend in whatever which way possible. And I think that's, yeah, ultimately that worked for them. Yeah, I absolutely rate it. And then there was this kind of like last ditch attempt from Fallon Tullis-Joyce right at the end. There's a corner at the end of the game. And then she just, you can see her kind of running up the pitch.

29:14And then she stands right in front of Sabrina D 'Angelo, who is obviously a lot smaller than her. Sabrina can't see a bloody thing as the corner's like coming in. And this corner also goes and hits the crossbar. I thought Sabrina D 'Angelo just about gets a hand to it, but I don't think she does actually. But she is in the right space. But I was thinking if that goes in, that's... That would have been unreal. what a bloody moment it was so interesting though the longer the game went on as I said the more confident Villa got but it almost felt the more desperate United got it got scrappy and they found themselves in the box with the ball and was swinging a foot at it and it just felt really kind of desperate and yeah ultimately the first loss of the season which is coming from Aston Villa and this is what this league can throw up at you I think Aston Villa have always come back to being like the disruptors again you know there was that kind of like banana skin I think you called it those banana skin teams and like Aston Villa kind of like they dropped off of that a little bit last year And now it feels like, actually, they've already got the draw against Arsenal.

30:06They've secured three points against Matt. That's four points out of two top tier sides. And a young squad as well. There's a real trust in a young squad. So imagine what they can do next season with a good season under their belt. 100%. And yeah, I think I just expected a lot more from Man United. Obviously, going into this game, they scored more goals than any other team in the league. Like you said, Rays, didn't have a single shot on target in the first half. Mark Skinner saying it was flat. Very, very flat. it just didn't feel like they were at the races really they had some decent possession early on and tried to build some attacks there was a couple of chances but not really that clear cut it's a big week coming up for them as well they've got Champions League coming up that's not an excuse I'm just saying they'll be pleased to see the likes of Galton back on the bench Uojo, Blundell back on the bench giving them that little bit of depth and quality because I think that's kind of where they were lacking as well was that quality and depth when those substitutions did come on and just kind of failed to make the impact.

31:03Let's have a little bit of a chat on Man United hosting PSG at Old Trafford on Wednesday night. Then they're heading to... Yeah, I think obviously it's been a bit of a... Interesting. A bit of an interesting couple of weeks. There's been a lot of chatter. I feel like it's just about to die down. I think it's because the interview stopped, so... Do you know what? I think it's also because we've got onto our next big thing, which is the VAR situation this weekend. So we've chosen another controversial moment. This happens in women's football. so I was like hold my beer I'll take the heat 100 % and then we'll have a pitch invader next week and then we'll talk about security don't do that because it's really annoying only because you're a game manager no no no it's really annoying for the players it's really annoying for everybody just don't do it you're not impressing anybody okay I wasn't wishing it on anyone well someone's going to listen to this and go I'm going to do it well hopefully I'm hoping our audience base isn't just pitch invaders you wait if that happens we're going to pick this up and we're going to send it to the WPLL what are they called now the WPLL We're going to send it to him.

31:59Just you wait. Thanks for that. What are you expected from Man United with PSG? Because it does feel like a very spicy fixture. Mary Earps in particular going against, obviously, her former club at Old Trafford. Really nice that Man United have let them in for the night. That's lovely. They're doing it twice. They're playing Leon there as well. That's crazy. Gosh, the heartwarming. Just before Christmas. What a lovely early Christmas gift for you guys. It's like, that's coming out of your January budget. No, please don't do that. Please give them a January budget. No, they've only just recovered from getting the new football boots back, haven't they, from the other game.

32:31Just excited to see Man United at this stage in Champions League football, because this is just such a massive moment for the squad. But like you said, a lot of people are calling about the depth of the squad and its ability to kind of transition from WSO football into big Champions League games. I think what's interesting is the result of the weekend and how that's going to affect them and how they're going to bounce back from that. Because, you know, we've always said this about Champions League when teams lose and then they have a Champions League game. Are they going to use that as the opportunity to kind of get them back up and running again?

32:59Or, you know, are they going to be feeling down? Are they going to be feeling the pressure? So, yeah, it is really interesting seeing them because it hasn't happened yet this season. Man United haven't come off the back of a loss into the Champions League. So it's a new experience again for them and up against a tough opposition as well at Old Trafford. So, yeah, it's going to be really interesting how they, you know, not just get themselves physically ready, but mentally ready for this one. Are you going to the game? I'm not because I'm flying back from Vienna from the Chelsea game on Wednesday and then I'm going to Toronto on Thursday.

33:28So it just felt a little bit much to stick Man United in the middle. Yeah, you. Funny part-timer. Coming up after this, London City Lionesses get their biggest win of the season.

33:45Oh God, you've got to give a lot of credit to London City Lionesses. Goals galore. Lovely little home game. I was watching the old highlights, watching the game back. And I have a fondness for that stadium because it's where Crystal Palace used to play when I was with them. And I just like the way that it looks now. I mean, full of people for a start. That was really lovely. That's nice. Not just my mum and dad in the stands. That was nice. Getting their fourth and biggest win of the season against Tottenham. I mean, what a result. Everything they kind of needed. I think everyone was kind of expecting big things from London City's Lionesses at the start of the season.

34:19and we talked about them week in, week out for the first few games, thinking, OK, well, what are they going to deliver? Is the expectation too high? Are we putting too much pressure on the side? They've had all these massive sign-ins, these record sign-ins, like you've got WSL, super experienced players in there. Are we expecting too much? But actually, they've delivered. They've delivered pretty much what kind of people... I know they're not in the top four at the moment, but my God, they are well and truly... They've not really dropped below a mid-table position and are starting to even look at giving the top four or top five a real run for their money.

34:51I mean, this is an incredible place to be at this part in the season. So I think I put a lot of that down to the fact that they have won the games that they won before this one. All three of their WSL wins came against sides that finished in the bottom half of the table last season. And all of their losses came from the other four games that occupied the top four. right so when we talk about teams disrupting and getting themselves established you know we often say like yeah it's all well and good like nicking a point off Chelsea and surprising everyone that's great but if you're losing to the teams in and around you ultimately you're going to be in the bottom half of the table so for them to be beating the teams that are in the bottom half of the table is really important because then they can really build that confidence and go out against the bigger teams and you know because they they suffered against some of the bigger teams Chelsea less so to be fair but it does feel like you know they are a well structured team they can struggle in phases at times to create but like they're becoming more clinical the relationships are building like as Jocelyn Prashour talks about at every press conference and I almost feel bad because it feels repetitive when we have conversations with them and we ask him how he feels the team is growing and he's saying look we need time and they do need time but to be able to play with what feels like pressure off in terms of what's expected from them internally.

36:08Yes, they're investing, but like bringing 17 players in is going to take a while. Anything above the relegation zone is going to be a success. So it's almost like that pressure off and it does feel like they are going to improve as the season goes on and those relationships get built and they become more clinical in front of goal. And, you know, the fact that Freya Godfrey got two of those goals. Like what's amazing is we talk about the money spent, the big stars coming in, and it's Goodwin and Godfrey that are still getting those opportunities and scoring the goals for them as well. And yes, goals came from elsewhere, but to be able to have that youth within the squad still having a chance, still impacting, I think is brilliant.

36:46I can't stop looking at the table. London City Lionesses on 12 points. You think you're 11 points clear at Liverpool and West Ham. The amount of work that you've had to do to get yourself into literally slap bang mid-table when there has been teams, there's five other teams in there six other teams in the league who have been a part of the WSL for years and years and years who have had so much experience so much kind of time to bed themselves in credit to them for what they've achieved and I want to also credit like you know I touched on Godfrey and Goodwin Sangare and Imran I've been so impressed with they are 19 and 21 and they've been so they stood out for me at the Chelsea game they've been so impressive in the way that they've come in so confident in the way they play and they just always they always catch my eye when I watch London City play and to just think I had to ask Sophie when she told me what age they were I was like yeah I need to go and check that because that just seems crazy with the maturity in which they're playing and a lot of that is down to we spoke about the balance in the team getting in these quite like experienced mature players maybe coming towards the twilight side of their career and then these youngsters and where would they find that balance and actually it's working really nicely you know Godfrey spoke about Nikita Paris who got her 200th cap got a goal she also scored a goal on her 50th cap and her 100th cap.

38:01How cool is that? That's incredible. There must be like, she must have a thing about like big moments. She's like, going to score a goal. Yeah. But Godfrey spoke about, it was really sweet. She was saying how pleased she was to get her first and second goal, but she also said to be able to assist Keats on her 200th appearance is as important and as big a milestone for her in her career, which I just thought was lovely. So there's obviously a really good blend and the youngsters are feeling confident because of the players in and around them. And yeah, you're seeing that game on game. I think it's like, you have to give credit to those youngsters though.

38:28They're obviously learning from the experienced players on the pitch and I love the fact they're getting those opportunities. But yeah, I've got to highlight Godfrey. I mean, absolutely incredible. Eighth minute. Her second goal. The bend on it. Have a look. 83rd minute. It was just like the curl into the far corner was absolutely stunning. And I absolutely rate them. 3-2 up. They would be forgiven for kind of maybe sitting back and going, right, let's see if we can see this goal out. But no, they were like, nah. 81 minutes, own goal from Nildon like you would have expected them to go okay nine minutes to see this out definitely we'll be grand but no they were pushing for another goal and absolute worldy of a fourth and I think it was that it was that they were so clinical in those attacking moments and I think it was the belief I think that they were going to win that game it wasn't like you said just like hanging on for like that draw and like seeing the game out but yeah they there is a belief in the squad that they can do better and like Tottenham it was just like okay well this is another game another kind of mid-table team that in and around where we are we're gonna absolutely go hell for leather on it and and they did in front of the home crowd like you can tell how much it meant to the crowd as well that that was unbelievable but going into this side of like this half of Christmas and just thinking this is where you're sitting at the moment I mean coming up on the 16th of November they've got Aston Villa away and then they've got Brighton at home on the 7th of December and then they have Leicester City away for the last game this side of Christmas they could pick up more points 100 % like when you look at the kind of like table as it stands you could be thinking Christ another two wins out of that and you you could potentially escalate yourself into a Champions League spot depending on how the other results go down I mean I think them being in the top six would be unreal let's get carried away come on I'm not the carry away queen let yourself go a little bit let yourself go um yeah one person I speak I think I suppose we've got to talk about in the London City squad though uh and former Man United player Katie Zellum still struggling a little bit for minutes at City she's played 90 minutes in the last five league games um but I I did wonder if that was down to injury or anything like that.

40:22No, I haven't heard anything. I haven't seen any kind of like niggles being picked up at all. But yeah, I mean, I understand to be like there's competition, like there's huge competition in the squad when you've got 17 players that have come in at the start of the season. Like it's not a case of, you know, your big WSL, your big experienced players are going to necessarily like slot straight in and fit. And when performances are working and improving, there's, you know, do you want to upset the apple cart by making changes as well? So I can understand that. 100%. And I think, yeah, I just feel really happy for London City like this.

40:51I think the importance is, and what we see from Goodwin and Godfrey and the like, is that, you know, players are going to get chances. If you're training well, you're going to get chances in the squad. And that's what's going to keep everyone hungry. Agreed. I know we haven't fully touched on Spurs, but I do think it's understandable. There will be hiccups along the way. And they just have the small matter of the North London Derby next weekend to look forward to. Arsenal have just announced, very sadly, that Katie Reid did suffer an ACL injury in training, which would be absolutely gutting for them, for her, especially off the back of that Michelle Adjumang news as well.

41:23Seeing these youngsters pick up these really bad injuries, it's never nice for any player, but when a youngster is kind of fine in their feet and fine in their form, it's even more gutting. So fingers crossed for a healthy recovery for her. Definitely. Sending love for all of us at the Upfront pod. You get back to the pitch as soon as possible, but big love. Thank you so much for listening to Upfront. We have a very exciting guest joining us on the pod on Thursday, a Man City player who's been tearing it up this season one of our absolute faves so excited to have her on you can find us on Instagram and X I'm at morgy underscore 89 Rach is at girls in the ball and we are at upfront underscore pod you can also find us on YouTube at upfront pod in the meantime see you next week

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