Spurs' magnificent seven, a near-perfect week for Man United, and representation in punditry

0:29Welcome to Up Front, I'm Chloe Morgan. our fan base and after all the controversy and divisive conversation over the past week we're going to have a very frank conversation about representation in punditry across the women's game

0:54right there's a lot of really interesting things that have been said this week that we're definitely going to get stuck into a lot of debate a lot of discourse a lot of narratives um yeah it's been a bit of a hot spicy week for takes um this week how are you feeling mate how's it been for you i feel like you've been here then everywhere you've you've lost your contact lenses you're driving up and down the country trying to find various bits and pieces of your possessions um yeah how's it going i wish it was my contact lenses it was my camera lenses that was the problem um I'm fine I have been here then everywhere I've been Belgium and Madrid and back in time to watch Friday night under the lights from the couch and then uh covering Chelsea and getting absolutely drenched as per because it hasn't stopped raining in this country for the last like eight weeks um of course yeah it's been a bit of a busy week though oh mate um well it feels like a long time ago since we're in the studio and I always miss that that studio vibe um yeah it feels like we're both sort of like so far away but at some point we will come back together and see each other and have a lovely coffee made by one of the producers Bruno who makes the most fabulous last day anyway you should see our rider yeah let's give Mariah Carey vibes um what's your moment of the weekend um difficult one there's lots of goals and stuff to choose from and maybe some not so exciting fixtures.

2:15So I'm going to go with capturing LJ's celebration after her goal. I haven't seen if anyone else has got the same shot. But yeah, I captured that celebration. I swear to God, when I zoom in on it, she's looking straight down my camera lens. So it doesn't happen very often where you're in like the perfect place for the perfect shot. And I got a message from Sophie right afterwards going, I really hope you got that because she was over the other side of the pitch between the dugouts and she knew where I was sitting so um I just replied with some of the photos and I was like I got that of course I bloody did never in doubt mate um my moment of the weekend has got to be and we're going to discuss it later obviously but Jess Park like the goal I just I can't get over it like we're quite fortunate that we do the Barclays WSL panel so like we are part of like the wider group there's about 20 of us or so who kind of decide on like goal of the month save of the month manager of the month as well um and i think if this one just isn't in there i will eat both of my old boots from when i used to play in you have to factor in all of the bloody goals carolyn has scored this month this is true i think the thing is though is that it's really easy to have a very short memory because like there's just like wonder goals being produced every single week like you're like oh i forgot about carolyn like christ didn't even know she existed and like now my new favorite goal is Jess Park like I'm so let's see what happens next week anyway yeah literally that back to Bunny Shaw who cares um right I think the the best place to start Rach is probably with the 10 goal bonanza um happening at Aston Villa Tottenham of Aston Villa losing 3-7 to Tottenham seven goals stupid scoreline that could be a rugby scoreline I just don't even understand how this took place so six goals came from the 68th minute onwards it was a goal fest a spectacular um it was a I didn't really know how this game was gonna go but it kind of kicked off proceedings with Gawpset I mean who else 10 minutes in picks up the ball super aggressive press from Spurs they really started on on the front foot you know there was sort of a there was a dynamism that I was seeing to Spurs a confidence there they were sort of driving into the box they were wanting to get the ball and then it was kind of like this this situation where she sets the ball off to halt receives the ball back again she's completely unmarked Aston Villa have gone absolutely AWOL they've already gone for like I don't know half time no one's around smashes it low in the bottom corner I mean there's just there's no way in hell that the goalkeeper's getting it and Gawpset I just I mean your song of praises from you're an OG praise singer of Gawpset mate but like yeah what were you feeling in that moment because it was just yeah big love I'm delighted she got her first goal and she got player of the match again like what a an impact she's had I spoke about this last week after the Chelsea game and a little bit after the Leicester game where there were these flashes of brilliance of fluid football from Tottenham of you know the players playing these triangles up the pitch really fast moving together as kind of this two unit in midfield and forwards and you really saw that display at full pelt I didn't think it would click so quickly and I think this game is a really interesting one because I kind of feel like Villa have been on this downward kind of dip this lacking confidence lacking in form and conversely Tottenham despite losing to Chelsea last weekend I think they came away from that game thinking they definitely could have got something they've been on this upward trajectory where things are starting to click and pieces are starting to fall into place and they've come against each other at this like really converse place where Tottenham are on an up and Villa are on a low and yeah I kind of expected a game to come where everything clicked for Tottenham I didn't think it would click in quite this fashion um but the how ruthless they were and how they still came away frustrated that they didn't score more and Ellie Roebuck made some great saves you know they had 27 shots 12 on target like absolutely incredible numbers obviously sacked off defending at points um which i think everybody did in this game um i think that might have been one of the main issues is that like everyone just really yeah it was like once it was three one and a half time it was like everyone went fuck it let's go let's just all out 10 forward it was crazy i just i didn't know i think it felt quite um i mean spurs obviously on the front foot but even at half time i mean they're going in 3-1 and you're thinking okay the game can still turn its head it's got the momentum you know Villa having some really spicy little moments I mean even after the initial Gawpset goal I was thinking oh what how are Villa going to react to this six minutes later you've got Kirstie Hansen again from an aggressive press kind of running down the side Hunt trying to catch up with her and then like the the work rate of Kirstie Hansen like she's just one of those players that I think she goes under the radar a little bit and I feel like past few games like She's really been like spicy.

7:19She's really stepped up. And I think, yeah, she doesn't always get the credit and the plaudits that she deserves, but it kind of felt like that was against the run of play. But again, Kirstie Hansen kind of, she fired Aston Villa up that there was a little bit of belief and that they could get something from this one. I think if you look at the timings of the goals, it's very much, you know, as I touched on, Aston Villa team that kind of, if their confidence is high, they're doing things really well. They're making good decisions. They're playing for each other. but their confidence I think has been chipped away over the last few games I think last weekend really damaged it and you could see that and they were just like making poor decisions you know being slow to react to things things we were discussing this beforehand things that aren't tactical you know they were not clearing their lines you know not winning second balls being really passive like kind of the really basic stuff and you know I do I love Kirstie Hansen And, you know, she's maybe not getting the praise so far this season because Aston Villa aren't, you know, doing big things on the pitch.

8:18But she's second in the goal scoring charts. She's, you know, scored nine goals this season. And she's one of those players that when she picks up the ball kind of in her own half, even, you're kind of guaranteed that she's going to get a shot off, which is pretty incredible. And I just think, look, it's a combination of things for Villa. Like I said, you look at the timings of the goal, right? Hansen gets her goal in the 16th minute. Bethany England scores in the 19th. Jean-Francois scores in the 68th minute, Tamburg scores in the 69th. And then you've got a goal in the 82nd and the 85th. And it just feels like it's a real confidence thing.

8:52Like they almost lose their heads a little bit, their ability to think clearly, to make sensible decisions. And I asked, funnily enough, I asked Natalia Arroyo about this before the game in her pre-match press conference, because she speaks about wanting her players to feel like they can be brave on the ball, to feel like they can make mistakes. And I asked her if that was still the same message after the Liverpool game. And how do you get your players doing that when you're in this kind of slump? And she said the problem is in these situations, players want to win. They want to win games. If they are down a goal or down two goals, they want to get a goal back quickly.

9:26They want to go and score now. And sometimes that rash desire to be back in front or to get a goal means they stop making the sensible decisions and stop doing the step-by-step things that they need to do. And I feel like that was on full display against Tottenham. well I think um I mean Rach we talked about this a little bit just before the pod started and it's like these managers as soon as like the team aren't performing or they're kind of that they are being substandard I think that's subjective the immediate reaction is okay well the manager needs to go let's have a look at the manager they're not getting something right and I think nine times out of ten what we've seen is yes Aston Villa just aren't getting the basics the fundamentals aren't there they're not tracking back they're not watching them they're not they're not even staying with their marker they're kind of ball watching there's like the basic fundamental things that you're taught from kind of 16 years old probably even earlier now the academy setups are so amazing but like she can't do that for them you can't teach the basics the basics should already be there and you should be thinking about the strategy and the tactics around it same thing for a team like Arsenal what it's like you know what could Renee do like she's got all the firepower up there they're creating chances they're getting the right areas they're not putting the ball in the back of the net West Ham they're kind of doing the right thing showing lots of promise but defensively again fundamentals aren't there and all of a sudden people are looking at the managers for these things but there's just something about Villa that is just not it's not clicking it is a little bit worrying but I do think I mean I hate the manager America around I hate the January the January move to kind of change a new manager and think that's going to fix and solve all your problems because you're starting from scratch like as soon as you start asking questions about the manager and trying to get someone in you're kind of saying well we've got to go right back to basics we've got a new manager who's going to cause more anxiety about who's going to be starting different forms of play like it's just not you need to give managers time to bed in and understand their players and understand the mentality around what their players are feeling, especially in those low moments.

11:14How do you drive that kind of resilience that you get from years of having gone through quite a lot of hardships and challenges as a club? I think, yeah, I agree. I just think I find a lot of this manager chat can be driven by the media, and I'm fully aware that I work in the media. But as soon as a team is in a bit of a slump, the conversations come from the commentators, from journalists, is Natalia Roy in trouble? And you're like, well, probably not. But now that you're asking the question so out loud and blatantly, you're going to start making the board think, should she be in trouble? And she's been in the job a year and about 10 days or so, a year and two weeks.

11:51And you look at her first five games in charge. They lost their first five games of her when she was in charge. They were in that really bad slump. They conceded 13 goals. And eventually she went on to steady the ship. they went on a run of five games they won five games in a row you might remember they beat Arsenal they conceded in every game which I think is something that they need to get back to because not conceding I think they've conceded now and this fucking another one stat that keeps getting thrown around this week and they've conceded the most in every get in every you know than any other team in the league and it's like that's literally only happened in the last two weeks two weeks ago they had like five teams above them in goals conceded and in the last two weeks suddenly they've dropped to the bottom and now this is the big thing being thrown around where where are the questions you know when a manager goes on a really big run like a I don't know a five game win or a seven game win or whatever it is consecutively where are the questions from the media saying should we give them a three-year extension like in the same breath that you're saying okay well as soon as they're like as soon as they start to do something wrong or they don't get that right of form it's like okay well like is there is their head on the line where is that kind of the the opposite positive of it and like I get it like I was an editor for the athletic like the headlines that were going to pop the headlines that were going to click and make you kind of subscribe but the headlines that are like it's danger everywhere get rid it's going to chaos it's a shit storm behind the scenes can't believe how bad and toxic it is like I get it I do get it but at the same time I think um yeah I what has been really nice I suppose in this manager merry go around is to see kind of a couple of clubs kind of say yeah we're not finding true form but at the same time we believe in our managers enough to give them a three or four year extension and let them bed in and kind of ride through this this season but we have got a question in from Villa fan Ruckus Patrick on the football ramble discord he said what the actual fuck is going wrong with Villa five consecutive losses 19 goals conceded in those including seven on Sunday why is it going so wrong because like the talent is there but they have also been unfortunate in terms of the players that they're missing and that that is a big that's a key factor yes I think their depth And this is the thing.

13:50I know Villa at one point finished, I think it was fifth in the league, and everyone thought, great, this is now our bar. Anything less is unacceptable. And actually, we've seen this kind of pattern with Villa before. This isn't unusual, where they go through slumps and then have to drag themselves out of it, and that's been with three different managers. So the common denominator in those situations isn't necessarily the manager every time. Teams are going to go through rough moments. They need to be allowed to struggle. They need to be allowed to find their way out of it. they need to be allowed to experience that together.

14:20The manager needs to be allowed to experience that and then come out the other side of it. Because otherwise you're just going to get in another new manager. The team are going to feel like if anything goes wrong, the rug's going to be pulled under us again. We're going to have to start all over again from scratch. We might have a nice new manager bounce and that'll be fun for a few games and everyone will think everything's fixed. And then once things go wrong again, panic. And, you know, I think you see that in the confidence in the players on the pitch. They are massively driven by confidence levels.

14:46And I know that sounds really obvious, and you might say every team is, but some teams are better at not playing great and getting a result. You look at a Chelsea, they've done that before. They've done that many times. They know that if they don't play well, I mean, maybe not in this case, I was going to say it's not the end of the world, but currently it seems to be. But, you know, you're allowed to not play well, get through it, figure it out, ride the tough times. And I'm sure every football fan would love their team to win all the time and do well all the time, but you are going to have difficult periods.

15:13And, you know, it's a short league. I know five games seems like loads, I just think, like, take a breath. Everyone's saying now it's a bad time that this gap has come with the FA Cup and the international break. And, you know, they want to just get straight back out there and get on the pitch. And I actually think the break will do them good. They might get some of those players back. You know, you look at those, Paula Thomas, Gabby Nunes, Rachel Daly, Missy Bo Kearns, Jill Baines, obviously, with her ACL. Lucy Akenaloni just came back. A huge list of losses. They're relying on youngsters, you know, and they've got, I think, like, the second youngest or third youngest team in the league.

15:47So I just think, take a breath. Tough patches are going to happen, you know. And in this season particularly, I think you can allow managers to have a chance to try and figure it out, given you've got this kind of playoff situation as opposed to straight relegation. And they're ninth. They're not even there yet. They're three points off sixth. So just take a breath. I know it's shit, but, like, give it time. I just don't believe in calling for people's heads. Let's give a little bit of a shout-out to Spurs. and I obviously I'm always very reluctant to do this given my affiliation and they're yet to become my I think it's a seventh club now that I can support this year yeah it's getting it's it's pretty much the um the top half of the table I feel bad if I'm not supported by you I'd be like what's the problem here yeah it always sounds a little bit like a hate crime if I don't support you um the Spurs obviously super super impressive great runner form at the moment it does feel like they've really kind of found their drive their ambition they're kind of this word that we keep coming back to the confidence under under martin ho this was just the second time they've ever scored seven goals in a wsl game weirdly enough that that period of time never came when when i was there i think we were lucky to kind of it is it is baffling i don't actually recall ever getting a clean sheet while i was at spurs but hey ho we do move on um arroyo said after the game that Spurs were ruthless clinical with almost every action they had and I think I mean I've got to agree I mean the seven goals kind of speaks to itself but it's kind of like the the way in which the goals were created there was a variety of the way they were created but there was also like a belief that they were going to score I mean even with the sort of um the more fluky goals like the the Beth England one you know it looped over Roebuck in like such the it was one of those ones that you kick yourself as a goalkeeper because you feel like you've got the flight of it but it just just it was a deflection that just took it straight over her in this awful awful loop but it just felt like Spurs were relentless in the way they just wanted to they never took their foot off the gas for the entire time I mean you were saying sort of you know the goal scored in the 82nd the 85th moment like Spurs were not relinquishing this lead and it felt like they were going hell for leather in terms of making sure their goal difference is going to be stellar this year but yeah I mean how impressed have you been with Spurs in this game and just just over the past few games.

18:02Yeah, I just want to touch firstly on what you were saying there about Natalia Roy. You can tell she used to be a journalist because what I, she said this afterwards, I really like, she said, it was like being thrown in a swimming pool and not allowed to get air. It was cruel. I'm really sorry and disappointed. I just think it's such a great, like they just could not get a foothold and that ruthlessness from Spurs was, is another element to their game. And I know, you know, they're probably not going to go and score seven goals again for a while, but it will give them that, it will give them a huge amount of confidence and belief to know that they have that in their locker.

18:34So when a team maybe isn't quite at the races, they know that they need to put their foot down as opposed to take their foot off, relax, pass the ball around or whatever. They need to keep their foot down. And I think that's quite an exciting element in their game to have developed so quickly. 100%. I think I've just been so impressed with where they are. And you look at the table now, and I know they're equal on points to Arsenal. and I know Arsenal now have two games in hand, given what happened with the abandoned game that I won't get into this weekend. But at the same time, this is the Spurs that has been progressively kind of growing.

19:09They've had moments where they're kind of dipped off and then stepped up again and dipped off and kind of, it feels like almost sort of one step back, two steps forwards, one step back, two step forwards. And that kind of feels like they're hitting their moment in the sun where things are starting to come together. The recruitment that they've made is incredible. I think they've made some really super strong sign-ins Martin Ho is getting the best of the players. It feels like all in all, they're just in a really nice wave at the moment. But I also want to see that consistency going into next season, depending on where they end up.

19:38I want to see them pushing for the Champions League again, pushing to get into that top three and making sure that that isn't just a fluke of a year. And I don't want to call it a fluke. I don't think that, but it's just like consistency for me. We need to learn. We can't... Had a really good season. You need to allow them to have that settling period where things might not go as smoothly next season as it did this season. And I think that's where we trip up a lot of the time is that a team has a really good season and things go well and everyone thinks now that that's their bar. So we need to remember, we need to not put too much pressure on them.

20:10Everyone keeps talking about Champions League and of course that's where they want to be. But for Martin Ho, in his kind of five-year plan or three-year plan, Champions League probably wasn't in it this year. It's a bonus and it's great to have that to aim for. but that's probably something that they're building towards rather than saying yeah next year we'll definitely be in it so we need to just take a measured approach so basically what you're saying is don't call for martin hosehead if things drop off a little bit next year yeah put this up please leave him alone coming up after this an almost perfect week for man united

20:58right my I don't know where yet Man United sit actually now second third second first second my second favorite club won this weekend to London City Lionesses um but before we get stuck into the actual game itself we wanted to chat a little bit about the recent statements made by Jim Ratcliffe who else um he said you can't have an economy with 9 million people on benefits and huge levels of immigrants coming in I mean the UK has been colonized it's costing too much money the UK has been colonized by immigrants really hasn't it um he later said he was sorry if my choice of language has offended some people um obviously Ratcliffe incorrectly claimed the population of the UK had risen by 12 million to 70 million people in the last five years which is completely and utterly bafflingly fucking wrong um the office for national statistics estimates it has actually risen from 66.7 million to 69.4 million a rise of less than 3 million um obviously there was massive uproar um with ratcliffe's comments he has always been a bit of a controversial figure since he started the ownership of man united um but this one really does take the fucking biscuit um not only does it show a complete willful ignorance of your fans it shows a willful ignorance of your players and also the wider football community and ecosystem in which you exist i mean i you kind of get used to comments like this being made by complete and utter fucking tools with too much money um this one really did jar um i think not only because the impact that it's had on people who have supported the club who have believed in the club who are united around the club who have been a part of the club for decades and decades it's made them feel ostracized it's made them feel like they aren't worthy it's made them feel like they are not part of the football ecosystem and it it's really quite disgusting um and i i sometimes i lose words I lose words because I just feel so angry about the fact that you've got these people in positions of power who run these clubs who have these kind of massive platforms to use and they could utilize them in such a positive way but they choose to turn the narrative into such a negative thing that becomes just really gross um this one is one of the biggest examples of that that I've seen in the last couple of years um it's grossly wrong it's grossly negligent and I yeah I'm really struggling to articulate myself because of the anger that I feel but um rate I don't know what your thoughts were when you when you heard this particular level of fucking nonsense come from him probably not actually surprised man can't open his mouth without you know cutting off another area of their fan base or ostracizing another area of the fan base um I think wanting to discuss immigration and having measures around it shouldn't be such a polarizing topic um I think you should be able to have that conversation There's nothing wrong with wanting to talk about, you know, the immigration system and whether it's working, etc.

24:03That is not what Ratcliffe is doing. It's the usual scaremongering from wealthy people with a lot of power. He's totting a line that's coming from a certain section of high up society, particularly in politicians around the world, skewing facts to push an agenda, stoke fear. So people don't actually look at where the real problems lie. and this is the thing, this isn't like skewing figures this is just intentionally lying the truth just doesn't matter anymore and once those kind of numbers and lines and stuff are out there the retractions never get the same number you don't get the same amount of eyes on the retractions or the corrections or the accurate information and people like that know that I also think language matters I'm assuming he's talking about illegal immigrants as opposed to immigrants which, you know, they contribute hugely to the UK economy.

24:57Many of those are playing football for teams in England. They are technically people who aren't from England. Including his own. His own team. You know, and I also think that using the word colonisation was an absolute disgrace. You know exactly what you're doing when you use that word. I'm not sure if he was trying to, like, make himself sound like a man of the people, but when you're an, is he an economic migrant? Essentially, he lives in a different country to avoid paying tax on his billions. He lives in Monaco. Yeah, you know, while decimating a club and cutting jobs and penny pinching at Manchester United.

25:29Treat the women like second class citizens. I'm not sure he's down to earth as he might think he is. And, you know, aside from that, I don't understand why at every bloody opportunity he's given to talk to the media, he has to bring the reputation of Manchester United into disrepute. Like, I don't know if that's to take the distraction off how well they're doing in the league or not doing or whatever it might be. I just, you know, and then it's so funny. it's you know the crowd of people who say footballers should stick to politics and keep politics out of sport it's a venn diagram they're the same people going well Jim Ratcliffe has a point you know and you like the irony there of yeah I just you know it doesn't hugely surprise me it's disappointing that it gets so he gets so much air time it's disappointing like you see the people who come out in support of what he says it tells you exactly everything you need to know and then his non-apology which was absolutely pathetic which shockingly again doesn't surprise me that the man doesn't know how to actually apologise for something so um maybe the goal is to just reduce the number of people who follow Manchester United I don't know what the goal is but like it is bringing the club's name into dispute and it is pretty disgusting as well I think um Manchester United's PR team needs to really crack down on the amount of exposure that he is allowed to have um it's clear that his views don't represent the people within the club a lot of you know players a lot of the um staff have been quite outspoken about against how they you know they obviously don't align with with what he said but I just think that it's so damaging to have someone who literally owns the club to be spouting views like that notably on behalf of the rest of the entire outfit and I I just don't know yeah there's sort of um some sort of ongoing investigation I think by the FA into whether his kind of comments have brought um the club into disrepute it'll be interesting to see what the fa stance is on that and sort of what the the wider implications are whether there are any kind of penalties for for using language like that which might hopefully deter others from from doing the same but that sort of remains to be seen um what a horrendous word to use i disgusting it it's just the lowest of the low and i yeah thoughts with everyone who's been affected by this because it's just such a disgusting way to represent yourself.

27:45To lie, to misrepresent information, to, you know, scapegoat a small number of the population, lying about the numbers, lying about, you know, the way that they're impacting or not impacting the country. For what? You know, you're the one that's moved out of the country so you can avoid paying millions in tax. Who's the one not contributing to the UK society here it's an embarrassment um says the immigrant by the way hello literally that but despite how awful Jim Ratcliffe is uh Man United continue to keep on winning and winning and winning and therefore pushing themselves higher up in my estimations of which team that I should eventually go on and support at the end of the season um they came back from a goal down to beat the WSL newcomers London City and hold on to second in the table a point ahead of Chelsea this was their seventh win in a row in all competitions um I mean I've got to say it was a very shaky start London City did dominate in the first half obviously picked up the early goal with that Nikita Paris's header which I've got to give a little bit of a shout out to gorgeous gorgeous header whipped in ball from the from from the out from the wide and it just felt like it was just the pace on it the position of it like the defender was like right on her shoulder like trying to put her off but it was just like she was in the right place right time and just like the cold keeper had absolutely no chance she was pretty much on the goal line um and then you've got within about i think it's like 10 minutes in or so you've got the fernandez being laid off and strikes like just high literally of the bar it was like what inches between her strike and i'm thinking christ on a bike this is this is not this is not going then for your god it's been such a my god yeah it just it was it was quite relentless it was a really positive start from london city lineesses um yeah I was very very fucking nervous until Jess Park go on you were going to say something before I said Jess Park go on I was going to say very quickly what is great about Freya Godfrey you don't want her in that position you don't want her in the position where she's the ball at her feet she's driving into the box even when she's out wide because you as the defender don't know whether to push her right or push her left she can shoot with both feet and she can score with both feet and I just find that that like battle is always so interesting to watch as you see her bearing down on the defender and you're like I don't know which way she's going to go so I don't know like as your defender what are you supposed to do with someone like that when they can rifle it in the back of the net from any angle that's what I want to say I don't think she should be allowed into the opposition half let alone the opposition box I'm saying half I mean cut her out because I've seen her like those driving runs and like she uses her physicality to kind of like dominate and just like when she gets on the ball her first thought is take the ball forward and I think if you're in the midfield you should be cutting out that threat straight off straight off the bat like you should be making her life difficult in and around the center circle she should not be allowed to progress at all that's that is the only tactic that I can see will make any bit of difference yeah yeah basically basically that yeah I mean I'm not I'm not an advocate of a shirt tug but anyway Jess Park I cannot cope with she's I've said it before she's like a Duracell bunny getting on the ball the deft touch that she takes it is just like this little dink she takes it forward and it's just like the power and the pace that she gets on this ball I mean keeper has absolutely freaking no chance and it's like it's straight across goal you think probably maybe in another position if like the goalkeeper hadn't been anticipated that she was actually going to strike from that range which is silly because we've seen Jess Park do it before but it's just the it's the placement of that ball in the corner and I just think as soon as that happened it felt like Man United back on the front foot again all the hard work that London City had been putting in trying to like dominate and get a foothold in that game and keep it it just kind of it went out the window but yeah raise what were your thoughts um unbelievable first touch unbelievable strike I did think the London City Lionesses players parted like the Red Sea when she picked up the ball like absolutely nobody engaged with her they all just dropped off and I'm like have you seen Jess Park play ever because what are you doing you absolutely need to close it down and I thought the first half was a really interesting like in halves like the first half of the first half I thought London City Lionesses played very well but very unlucky not to go up by more than one goal and then there was a break in play for a Fallon Tullis-Joyce injury and the teams went over to the side and very clearly got some tactical tweaks because then the second half of that half Manchester United started to find themselves a bit more in control and in better positions so for me it was no huge surprise when Jess Park got that goal Millie Turner's goal though I thought was super for a player who's been out for so long to have the kind of uh wherewithal and reaction to get down and head the ball the way she did was superb for someone who's been out so long you can understand if someone's a little bit rusty, you know, but what a goal that was.

32:42You could see how much it meant to her and to the team, you know, and United did make some rotations. They'd obviously played midweek in Champions League. I was there for that. And, you know, that could perhaps be an element of it. They were a little bit rusty. And that's when people call for rotation within the squad. I think it's about having more rotation more regularly so that when you have to play games like that, it's less, you're less rusty, I guess, because those players have maybe played more minutes. but look I mean they got the win I think London City Lionesses will be disappointed because I think they could have had a bit more of a cushion should Manchester United find their feet and they didn't kind of take those moments and they're the kind of parts of a new team's game that you need to work on you need to go through those moments you need to play those games where you don't take those chances so that next time you're like that's the area you're working on and that's the experience that will kind of stand to you when you're next in those situations so So United, conversely, have been in those situations before and are starting to know how to get wins, even if they don't start well, which is important.

33:44I think it's that. There were so many moments that London City lineups could have scored that equaliser. I mean, 96 minute, as an example, I mean, Goodwin, heading from the corner, and I was like, this is a surefire getting in the back of the net. I was expecting the net to ripple, and then it's just such a big miss. That's such a big chance to equalise. And I think on balance, they probably did deserve to get a point out of it. They more shots on target, I think. and yeah it's in the box just well I think it's that like it was a you know it's one of those games that there's going to be disappointment coming off the back of it and I think maybe there was a little bit of tiredness creeping in there for it from Man United having obviously played the the big game to uh to Atletico Madrid earlier on in the week but it did feel like if I'm going to be fair and balanced to two of my favorite teams at a point each probably would have been a fair one um but talking of which rage obviously you said you mentioned that you were there at the Atletico Madrid game Man United obviously walking away with the three nil win um they're in an absolutely amazing position now for their second leg on Thursday but how was it watching that game because it was like um it was so it was it oozed confidence it oozed just assuredness for me I think the manner of the goals were really classy I think Melvin Mallard is in some vein of form at the moment.

35:01Her reading of the game, knowing where Turland was going to be, the kind of deft touch into Turland's path, there was no chance anyone was going to stop that goal. This goal Melvin Mellard scored herself and then the assist for Ziguiati as well. She's just like oozing confidence. She looks so dangerous going forward. You know, you could see those players clicking and it's a good time for that moment, those moments to be happening. you know I thought Atletico Madrid could have got one back Valentullus Joyce had to pull off a couple of good saves but I thought yeah United were worthy of that win and they'll be delighted going into the next leg having that cushion I think Arsenal said the same thing about how important it was to take the game to them in the first leg rather than kind of leaving a lot to do in the second and I think both teams have done a very good job of that Definitely I think obviously Man United capitalised on that kind of early mistake and I feel like they were confident anyway but that kind of really bolstered them going into the game and 100 % given a massive shout out to Fallon Tullis-Joyce that the save that she made from the free kick my god and I looked over it again and I was like the fact that she's got her feet so quickly over into that top right hand corner and it's not that she's just got one hand to it because like one hand gives you more reach she's actually been so quick that she's able to get two palms to that because the pace of that ball possibly with one hand would have taken you back into your own net but she managed to claw it out and I just I can't stop singing their praises, the car stops singing their praises for that is absolutely quite like the athleticism shown in that was was absolutely crazy yeah I've really got to give a shout but it does kind of feel like this is a Man United who are on a one-way train to kind of just like dominating just like getting into that kind of like you know they they're so consistent now in being top four performers and I think even though obviously Man City are kind of yes they're probably going to win the league this year I do feel like Man United this is like the this is where they were they were almost like a Spurs like and now they've become like their own right like in their own right this like really consistent top four contender and I yeah I really rate it despite what's happening behind the scenes yes and I think the importance of getting that 3-0 buffer if you like and look teams can come back from that we saw Tottenham capitulate against Manchester United but you know it it takes when you're in the Champions League and you're playing these big games and you're fighting at the top of the table and you've got Subway League Cup final and you're managing all these big games, if you can relieve the pressure even a little bit on one of those fixtures, you know, that's really good game management, if you like.

37:31And I'm not saying they're not going to have to go out and play really well on the second leg, but it just alleviates some of the pressure on the players in the second leg. Good luck, guys. Wishing you all the bloody best. You're back being my team. um coming up after this we discuss punditry and representation in the women's game

37:57so Rach uh more controversial opinions um in the women's game and wider football this week there's been a lot of discussion recently around who covers and perhaps who should cover women's football in the punditry and commentary positions the conversation was sparked by Enia Luko's comments about Ian Wright and other pundits a lot of the discourse has been pretty polarizing and to some extent quite extreme um so for anyone who hasn't seen um a couple of the interviews that that we're sort of talking about so in one of the two interviews on the 90s baby show podcast she criticized the inclusion of Wright and Nedim Anoa among a group of six pundits covering the 2025 women's euros on the BBC and ITV while she and former England teammate Farrah Willems sat in the stands so Eni said that this was an example of opportunities in the industry being taken away from women by men and then she also accused Wright of failing to champion her in the same way he had supported colleague Gary Lineker when he was taken off of air by the BBC following his comments about the government's asylum policy um it's a controversial one I think there is some I can understand to some extent some of the points that she was trying to make about I have and I would say this from also from personal experience is that women's football and there have been people in women's football from you know decades and decades and decades who've been covering the game who've been following the game who've been a big part of the narrative who have drived a lot of the progress who've driven a lot of the change as well and I think women's football has obviously kind of reached this beautiful moment where it's kind of it's hit the sun it's kind of like hit the moment that everyone's started to appreciate and recognize and starting to take notice of all the amazing work that has been taking place and I think when those things happen I think obviously people look around and they're sort of saying you know well who's going to lead some of this who's going to be a bit of a light who's going to be a bit of representation in the space and I think sometimes I can understand how and I've definitely seen it myself where you kind of have these moments where you think where are some of the OGs who may be better placed to kind of discuss some of the topics that women's football because they've been in it for decades and decades and they kind of know the space and they've been there and they deserve these opportunities because they have been at the forefront of fighting for a lot of this a lot of this stuff you know well before even my time so I could understand there being some resentment I think when women's football gets this space and then all of a sudden like those opportunities that could go to really deserving people sometimes go for the people you know the people who have maybe bigger platforms or bigger followings or things like that that is a lot of kind of what you know the bigger broadcasters are looking for I get that that section the the section that I don't kind of get about the argument is sort of going after potentially you know people who have that long standing in the game the people that I'm talking about the OGs I mean Ian Wright they're eclipsed this guy in and around the Lionesses in and around the Arsenal women's guards you know being a big part of their campaigns you know helping players behind the scenes with you know payment of their surgeries and you know being a massive beacon for Arsenal women and being a big part of why their fan base is so united and why people are kind of really paying attention to women's football and the amazing punditry in the work and you know while I listen to Ian Wright I think this is a guy who knows his stuff he knows exactly what's happening he knows the challenges he knows the barriers he knows the context and the history and he also knows tactically the right things to say I don't question Ian Wright's kind of judgment on a lot of the things that he says as a pundit so I think it's kind of I can understand the argument but I don't understand the the direction of it towards Ian Wright in particular and we've kind of seen this a couple of times with Eni and I have the utmost respect for her also as as a pundit it's not it's not easy um being a pundit in the space you know I've only just started my own journey in co-commentary it is super tough you get things wrong you get names wrong you the pressure's there you're live on air you're you know you don't always come across in the way that you want to like it is it is super difficult like you have to kind of ride out those like really difficult patches and I hate the fact that so many people have kind of um been quite abhorrent really in the way they've kind of approached some of the stuff that she said like disagree with it 100 % if you if you feel that way but it's also the the way in which I think people have approached the argument to her that I think is is is pretty foul and pretty disgusting so yeah agree with some parts agree I disagree with who it's against I also disagree with the approach that some people have taken to disagree with her but um yeah Rach what's your take on it all it's been it's been quite the week for for big views yeah I think first and foremost the misogyny and the racism and the sexism that she's faced um is completely abhorrent and absolutely nothing to do with the discussion or the debate um and it's not even an angle so that in itself is is disgraceful i also think i think she was wrong with some of the stuff she was saying and i think you know there's a kind of finite number of roles in major tournaments and in broadcast and you know as you say there's a lot of people out there who've been in and around the game for a long time who deserve to have that space and it's it's almost like the implication being that those who were there covering the tournament didn't deserve to be there or weren't good enough to be there and I disagree with that I think they absolutely did and there's a little bit of a danger of countering your own argument to a degree so by saying that someone should be in a position because they've played the game or because they're a woman, A kind of diminishes those who are in the game doing a very good job because they're good at what they do.

43:23It reduces it almost to have people question it and say, oh, so you've only got that role because you're a woman. You've only got that because you used to play. And I think that can be unfair to those that, you know, because there's lots of us who agree with some of the things she said because we're invested in the game. But the audience and the people that you're trying to change that narrative with aren't going to agree with that angle, right? They're going to go, oh, so you're right. You do have to play the game. Well, if you do have to play the game to be involved, then why are you in the men's game?

43:49So when you're saying almost that you need to gatekeep the women's game for women, but that the men's game has to open up and be more diverse, that's never necessarily going to land well because it's not as simple as that. And I do think it's important that the women's game have the right voices in it and have people in it that know what they're talking about and you know having ex-players in is great I would also say being an ex-player doesn't make you a great broadcaster immediately right and you don't automatically get to do something because you're an ex-player I'm not saying anyone who's currently doing it I'm not saying that's the case but I'm just saying that doesn't make you an expert necessarily in punditry and in broadcast and a lot of the people who are involved in it now have done a huge amount of work behind the scenes I know for example Alex Scott did it in university alongside football a long time ago.

44:35She's been building that kind of media background and broadcast background for a long time. So to kind of then, whether advertently or inadvertently, diminish that to being, you got that because you're a woman, you're then kind of damaging the people who are legitimately, rightfully in those positions, if that makes sense. So I think it wasn't nuanced. And I think when you end up going onto platforms that speak to a certain type of audience who are already majority probably on the wrong side of the argument and think that you are a diversity pick, I say in inverted commas, and then you go on a platform, you know exactly which platform I'm talking about, you know exactly which person she argued with and expect nuanced debate and nuanced reaction.

45:23That's not going to happen. You're getting into a cesspit and then being surprised that it's crawling with creeps like it's it's been such a frustrating situation because if you're going to have that discourse it could just be had in a much better more nuanced fair way and I think this constant highlighting of Ian Wright is just not the right way to go because he is the perfect example of how to be an ally in women's football and this idea of him not championing her the same way in Gary Lineker is like comparing apples and oranges you don't automatically get a right to be pushed forward just because of you're a woman or just because he supports women's football that's not the way it works and again it reduces someone's involvement in sport to simply their gender or simply their experience and I think there's a lot more to it so I agree with you there are some arguments in there that could legitimately make for a really good discussion debate argument for opportunities for women in the game but on the other side I think it's gone about a really bad way and it's it's ended up becoming an argument against yourself that you can then use what you're saying on one side can be applied not be applied on the other and it just kind of clouds the whole thing and makes it delegitimizes then the discussion so I don't agree that you know the people involved in the women's euros weren't qualified weren't good and weren't wholly deserving of being there in that position and again as I said there's a finite number of people you're going to have on a panel during a major tournament sometimes you're not always going to get the gig and you know I can fully understand that I've been on the wrong end of that where I thought oh I've been would have been really good at that but I didn't get it because you know other people are just as good and just as qualified I think it's that I mean sometimes the women's game is we've tried so long for things to be meritocratic to kind of you know to be given opportunities that we know we deserve because we're experienced because we're knowledgeable because we have that insider intellect about the game um and 100 % I think you know we see sort of a lot of like ex-players at the moment on sort of co-coms roles and I think it's about being the variety of voices because whilst you know players can obviously deliver a perspective on a game you know broadcasters who have been watching the game for years and years and years will deliver a completely different perspective to those writers who have been involved in you know seeing those games to you know even ex-managers ex you know people behind the scenes like you know the strength and conditioning coaches for example everyone's going to see the game in a slightly different way be able to pick out some of those nuanced points but yeah I think um I have to agree I 100 % have always respected Ian Wright I respect you know the likes of Alex Scott of Steph Orton who have you know they have paved the way and Ennio Lugo I mean she was you know one of the people who appeared as a pundit on Match of the Day back in 2014 it's like 12 years ago and I can't even imagine the kind of fear and the anxiety and the you know the backlash and we've seen kind of how much abuse that she's received in a you know in sexism and also racist online abuse um over the past few years for everything that she's kind of spoken out about so that there is that kind of um it's a tough space to navigate and i and i do i do feel sorry for her in the way that this has been perceived i do think there is a space for having a better conversation about this and sort of looking at the opportunities that exist and i and i don't just mean in the punditry space either i think um you know as we do see sort of women's sport kind of hitting this kind of this this kind of golden era as i'm kind of calling it at the moment you know you do see more kind of men stepping into the space and and that's a good thing if they're if the merit is there and the experience is there and the understanding is there so it's um it's yeah it's a I don't think I could have said any better than what you said Rach you've articulated it absolutely perfectly mate um so yeah let us know your thoughts on it I'd love to know what what the listeners think um yeah what do you think about the takes what do you think about any comments um and yeah um thank you so much for listening to up fun rachel where are you headed for this week's champions league uh oh god yeah champions league first i'm doing both the arsenal game and the manchester united game and then i'm doing three fa cup games so wednesday thursday friday saturday monday that's the plan and when are you sleeping I don't Sunday well good luck with that mate I really hope you make it to the end just crawling on your hands and knees to a Sunday lie in I've had a game on Sunday why did I say that?

49:41oh for the love of God sorry it's four it's Friday, Saturday, Sunday Monday oh my god yes six games in a row alright well get some red balls down you we'll be back next Tuesday to look back at the fifth round of the FA Cup and much much more in the meantime you can find us on Instagram and x slash Twitter I'm at morgy underscore 89 rach is at girls on the ball and we are at up front underscore pod you can also find us on youtube at up front pod see you next week

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