Squad drama across Europe, Switzerland prepares, and the WSL announces its official expansion

0:00Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

0:37You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

1:18This is Nick and Jack from The Best One Yet, and we are excited to tell you about Walmart business. Staying ahead of business trends means moving fast and adapting quickly. Walmart business helps you simplify operations so you can focus on building the next big thing. Find exactly what your organization needs with their ever-expanding business assortment and everyday low prices. Keep your momentum going fast with reliable shipping and fulfillment. Eligible organizations can take advantage of tax-free shopping, both in-store and online, saving you more while getting you everything you need. It's Walmart built for your business.

1:49Sign up for a free Walmart business account today at business.walmart.com. Blood donation is now more inclusive. More LGBTQ plus individuals are able to donate blood with the American Red Cross due to FDA guidelines that eliminate eligibility questions based on sexual orientation. The Red Cross celebrates this historic change and welcomes those who may be newly eligible to donate blood. There's a place for everyone in the mission of the Red Cross, including you. The Red Cross is committed to achieving a blood donation process that treats all potential donors with equality and respect while maintaining the safety of the blood supply.

2:25Join us and help save lives. To learn more and make your appointment to donate blood, visit redcrossblood.org. That's redcrossblood.org.

2:41Rachel: Welcome to Upfront. I'm Chloe Morgan. And I'm Rachel O'Sullivan. The Euros is just over a fortnight away and there's been plenty more squad drama and this time, thankfully, it isn't England's. In part two, we're going to be joined by football journalist Craig King to find out how things are shaping up on the ground in Switzerland. Plus, we'll catch up with some of the latest news and stories coming out of the WSL.

3:08Rachel: before we get into today's show a reminder that stack is currently running a survey for all of its listeners and we'd love you to help us out by answering a few questions if you submit a few answers about your stack listening habits you'll be entered into a competition with a chance to win a brand new playstation 5 at the end of every month for the next five months rach i've told you again do not answer do not respond do not enter this survey is a great way for us to find out more about our listeners and to help stat continue to bring you more of the podcasting you love so they massively help us just hit the link in the episode description to fill out the survey and get entered into the prize draw now thank you so much in advance rach let's get stuck in we haven't really had a lot of football over the last week which has kind of been a bit of a blessing in disguise a small and very brief breather before the chaos of the euros unfolds um what has been your your moment of the weekend.

4:01Rachel: I can kind of see there's some surroundings, some very posh hotel surroundings behind you. Are you taking some time away? Are you taking some time off? What's going on here? I'm in Kent. You've been here. What? That's not your mum's curtains from before. This is a very different atmosphere. What's happening? I literally brought you down here for the day. How do you not remember what it looks like? Do you know what, Rach? Because it was such a long time ago and I've not been invited back. You're never free, Chloe. I can never get you down. It's like trying to get hold of the Queen and that's even harder now she's dead.

4:30But like, it's very difficult. It's nearly as difficult.

4:32Rachel: Now seeing that backdrop, I kind of want to get back down again, to be fair. But yeah, what's your moment of the weekend been? Please tell me some relaxation, resting, recuperation. Yeah, I got to have a date night where we didn't talk about football the whole time. That was quite nice. What did you talk about? Life, it was a very sunny day and we got to go down by the seaside. We played some darts, which was very fun. Nice. And then we went and had some Greek food and watch some golf in the kind of outdoor screen. So very relaxing. And I mean, let's be real, we were talking about Switzerland.

5:06We were talking about like how it's going to go. But it was nice to kind of slightly switch off, let's say.

5:11Rachel: Well, I've got to say my weekend has been a fairly similar vein, to be fair. I was up in Liverpool for a friend of a friend's wedding, which was really, really lovely. The last time I went to Liverpool was for a hen do, like years and years ago. We had the hen dressed up as a nun. It was a completely different vibe this time round. But we went to the underground bar where the Beatles used to play, the Cavern Club, which is really, really cool. And then, yeah, obviously had one too many espresso martinis, felt absolutely rough as hell. So, yeah, it was quite nice to see a different city and just, yeah, like you said, like switching off from football and not talking about football for a good 48 hours.

5:47Rachel: Talking of which, let's get in and talk about football. Okay, so we've been speaking about England's squad drama so much after the past couple of weeks with so many things happening. but other nations have obviously been going through it too. We can't avoid this. France, who are in Group D as well, have also been having a slightly turbulent time, or a different time, I'd say. Captain Wendell Renard and all-time leading goalscorer Eugénie Lessemer have been left out of the squad. I mean, what do you think about that? Was that expected? Did you see that coming? Well, he'd left them out, I think, of the April squad, window squad.

6:23And, you know, I know you say unusual, but I think the French squad and discontent isn't hugely unusual. We know what's happened to them in the past. But yeah, surprise. I mean, he did say, as Einstein said, Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I want different results for this team, so I've gone with a different selection. So saying something like that really puts the pressure on your decision to be right. You know, like you need to deliver, I think. You know, they're two hugely experienced players. Wendy Reinhardt is the thorn in so many teams sides and you just never count her out and you never count France out in games and you know I can think of so many games and you're into the final 10 final five and they get a corner and you just think big Wendy's coming up she's going to get a header she's going to score a goal you know there's not just what she delivers on the pitch but what she delivers off it and I know look these are some players who've been around an awful long time.

7:20I understand bringing new players in, but it is still a very big decision. So, you know, you stand by that decision and it will play out whether it was the right one to make. Ken Zadali as well is another one who was left out. I think she was quite surprised to be left out of the squad as well. So, yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how France get on. They're the kind of team that we always label as an underdog, which feels like such a weird thing to say about France when they've got so much talent, but they never seem to perform in the big stage so maybe this is the difference I don't know last time we said maybe they just need a new manager and that didn't really play out so who knows I think you've got I've got to agree with

7:58Rachel: you I think it's the boldness of the statement it's one of those statements that you kind of live and die by like if the tournament goes absolutely to plan you look like the biggest hero because you change things up like you got rid of you know players that you know the players that you'd normally rely on are those kind of big game moments and you bring in other people into the squad and you know give them a chance to kind of show themselves on the international stage or it's a case of things go absolutely terribly and all of a sudden you're the absolute villain of the plot and you should have had those people there and they should have been there from the beginning.

8:23Rachel: You can't understand why that decision was made. So it's a real Marmite one now, but... Bold. Bold, very bold. And I think it is a kind of wait and see how it plays out. But there have, of course, been four WSL absolute heroes included in the squad. You've got Chelsea, Sandy, Baltimore, Ariane, Jean-Francois, Everton's Kelly Gargo and Man United's Melvin Mallard. We're still waiting for the Dutch and Welsh squads at the time of this recording. Rhianne Wilkinson will announce her squad on Thursday from Wales' highest summit, which I'm going to try and pronounce. I've already had some issues with pronunciation on this squad, which have been carefully and very craftily omitted thus far.

9:04Rachel: Wales' highest summit, Er, Wythwa, or just Snowdon? Could have just put that, because that would have been really helpful. Thank you. No, but it's nice to see your commitment to the Welsh language there. That was lovely. Well, I think one language at a time. I'm only just mastering Irish. So Welsh... Chloe, let's master English first, OK? And then we can move on to mastering others. But throwing in the odd word here and there, I'm sure the Welsh will be saying dioc. You make a very valid point. Thank you for that. Welsh fans haven't been able to get a personalised version of the Wales away kit.

9:33Rachel: This is the first major tournament in their history, which feels like an absolute failure. There are two such contrasting things, right? You're doing something super cool, announcing a team from the highest mountain, Like, you know, it's so emblematic of this high peak you've achieved in Welsh football, making a major tournament for the first time and how exciting that is. And you're standing on the top of the mountain. It's just very, very emblematic. You know what I mean? Very iconic. And then you turn around and go, but Jeff, you wanted that away jersey. Sorry for you, like. Which, I mean, how do countries not learn?

10:06How do distributors, Nike, Adidas, all of these people, and I'm going to say Nike again because it was them that had the issue with the Mary Earps jersey in the World Cup. But like, stop, stop fucking up every major tournament. Stop pissing all fans. Like just, you know, make kit available. This is Wales's first major tournament for the women's team. You know, they've, they're known for, yes, they're a small country, but a very big and vibrant and passionate fan base. You know, just make the kits available, guys.

10:33Rachel: This is what I don't understand. It's not like this hasn't been news for a very long time now. They've been qualified and going to the Euros for a very long period of time. A long enough time enough for you to get your crap together. And it does feel like one of those issues again where this just wouldn't have happened to a men's squad. Like, I know there are certain things that happen. You think, actually, that's just bad luck. But like, this is just very poor planning and kind of, I don't know, it kind of makes the squad feel like they're not getting the same kind of experience that the men's team should, which is just appalling.

10:59Rachel: It's like, come on, get your shit together. It's not that hard. another squad world champion spain revealed their squad last week and it is packed with talent however notably once he told me left out spain's all-time top scorer jenny hermoso who responds to the decision by writing on x twitter i truly have a clear conscience especially when i remove environments with such bad energy from my life manage that's what others should learn to do that part is too big for them i tweet because it's the only way i have left to have a conversation let them focus on making Spain European champions, although they could do it alone and probably much better.

11:35Rachel: I mean, that is punchy, absolutely punchy. And I think obviously, you know, when you kind of look at the history of where, of what Spain have had to deal with over the past year and a half and all the turbulence that came out of the Women's World Cup in 2023, what Jenny Hermoso has been through, what her other squad and teammates have been through. And it just feels like another example of Spain really trying to kick players when they're down for speaking up and making the right call and being advocates of the game. It just leads into that culture of things are still not sorted within the Spain squad in the slightest.

12:11Well, this is always going to be a difficult situation for when a Jenny Hermoso isn't called up for the first time or misses a major tournament. That's always going to be a point of note. You know, we were all assured that, you know, Monsei Tomei was new and fresh and new ideas, even though she was under Jorge Vilda. We were assured that this was a new beginning and everything was going to be OK. So if a decision like this is going to be made, you would think it's going to be managed really well and it's going to be really clearly communicated. And if it's down to football and if it's down to, as Tomei has said, there's such a stacked squad in that position, that should be really clearly communicated to the player so that everyone's on the same page.

12:54And it just feels like it hasn't been very well managed. So even if it is down to she doesn't feel Jenny Hermoso has earned her spot, but is playing well enough to be in the squad. God, you've got to manage that tricky situation very well. Otherwise, it's going to come out like this. And just from what Jenny has said, it doesn't sound like it has been very well managed. They have some very pointed comments and there's clearly still quite a fracture there.

13:18Rachel: Well, I think that's what I was going to say. It doesn't sound like it's just a natural kind of, I don't know, a changeover of the guards. And you can kind of see that with the France squad and the England squad to some extent. This feels like a bit of a, I don't know, another chance to kind of dig at someone who's, you know, been such an advocate of the game and sort of spoken out against the Federation. It doesn't feel like it's just one of those, oh, well, Johnny Hermoso was kind of like leaning towards not being one of the better players in the squad. And therefore we've left her out for the right reasons.

13:42Rachel: And I think obviously it's not been communicated to her well. She's not taken it well and understandably has spoken up again. So, yeah, it's just another disappointing way to go into the Euros with this still this massive negative overhang from the World Cup and everything those players have gone through and experienced. And, you know, it wasn't that long ago. Was it just before Christmas? We had the Spanish women's national team documentary drop. which kind of gave a little bit more of an insight about what the players had been through and experienced. And it still feels like we're in that era and there's still too much hanging over them.

14:10Rachel: I mean, Rach, is that the impression that you get? Yeah, and it's another example of just poorly managing a situation that you could foresee. Like, you could foresee that leaving someone like Jenny Armoso out could cause headlines and rumours and speculation. And actually, you could get ahead of that if you could just manage your comms better. I mean, we saw how the comms was managed after the incident in the 2023 World Cup, and that left a lot to be desired. And there was a lot of people involved in that that arguably should have gone. But it's just frustrating. You know, like I say, it's just something you could have foreseen if you knew you weren't going to be bringing Jenny.

14:48You could have handled the situation and prepared for what would have been questions if, like I said, it was really down to not playing well enough or whatever it might be. So, again, it's just another example of short-sightedness from football federations, football clubs. It's just very frustrating.

15:07Rachel: Well, the drama doesn't stop there. We didn't mention this the other week, but there was calamity with the Finland Nations League squad. Finland's manager once called up 23-year-old defender Narni Ruskanen. Instead called up 51-year-old Stina Ruskanen. Easy mistake. Yeah, 100%. I mean, you know, similar type of people, you know, similar age groups, you know, easily replaceable, I suppose, with one another. But obviously a massive faux pas, definitely rectified, a little bit of a funny moment. Listen, it gives me hope there's a lot of O'Sullivans in Ireland and one day they might put down Rachel instead of Denise and I could be off to a major tournament.

15:43So fingers crossed, like I could be 51 and it could still happen. So, you know. God help them. Wow.

15:50Rachel: Stina received one cap for Finland 29 years ago and obviously still on the radar. So never count yourself out. Never close that door. Maybe she never officially retired. Yeah, she's just been on the books this entire time. Former Chelsea and Germany midfielder Melanie Leopold has announced her retirement from football at the age of just 31. A mere baby in the retirement space. She has played at Real Madrid this season and featured plenty of times, but she's decided to call time on her career. I mean, Rach, she's one of your faves, old Mel. What did you think of this news? So early. Yeah, feels like a bit of a surprise.

16:25But I mean, look, at the same time, always good when a player can make that decision themselves. And, you know, that must be quite nice to have that control rather than feel like you've just been phased out. Although I believe there's been a little bit of discontent within the Germany squad as well. So, you know, I think it just shows with all the stuff that happened with England, it's not uncommon, you know, to have these difficulties with squad announcements and picking players and not picking players and players choosing to step down. And, you know, at the end of the day, it's a lot of people, a lot of personalities and a lot of different styles of football player that has to be managed and fit into a relatively small squad.

17:03So it just shows at least it wasn't just England having all these various things happen ahead of a major tournament.

17:10Rachel: How do we feel going into the Euros now that there has been like these kind of mini turbulences, these mini whirlwinds or rumblings from quite a few squads? It kind of throws things up in the air a little bit more and adds to the drama of making the teams and what happens a little bit more unexpected, do you think? Yeah, harder to predict or what to expect. I've spoken to a few people who said, look, the stuff going on with the Lionesses could galvanise them. And you could say that for a lot of teams. It could go one of two ways. It could cause a bit of chaos or it could galvanise the squad, bring them together.

17:40So it'll be interesting to see how that works. We saw with Spain all of the stuff they went through in the World Cup and they went on to win it. And I feel like that's something that Jenny Ormoso kind of alluded to. They could probably do it on their own and better. So, yeah, I think it makes it hard to predict. And we say this every tournament because teams get better across the board and it makes it harder and harder to know which way things are going to go. But this is just adding more of that drama.

18:05Rachel: I think you're completely right, I think, in terms of the adversity that kind of makes teams feel a little bit stronger. They almost go into the competition feeling that they have something to prove because they've been through the sort of negativity in the lead up to the tournament. And I think, you know, what a lot of the squads, especially, you know, someone like England, reigning champions, want to defend the title, aware that, you know, public perception right now probably isn't the best around what's happening. We want to go in there and kind of prove their worth. And I think there's also like a lot of pressure, I suppose, on the teams at international level, because how successful I suppose they are definitely filters through into how successful the domestic league will be.

18:38Rachel: And especially where, you know, somewhere like England doesn't have a major international tournament coming up next year. apart, of course, from the World 7s tournament, which is hot on the new agenda. But I think it does, you look at the impact that it has on women's football businesses, on social media, on papers, on bums on seats, on attendances. So I think there's a lot, there's always a lot of expectation around on the squads, not just in achieving the tournaments, but also the help that they provide at international level. So yeah, I think it's nice. It's nice to have a little bit of spice in the lead up and sort of bring some of these issues to the forefront.

19:08Rachel: so yeah and it's oftentimes the time that these things are brought to the forefront because there's more eyes there's more media there's more talk about the nations and you know sometimes people say why are they talking about it now well when else are people going to listen so actually it's not a huge surprise when these things get brought to the fore definitely

19:40Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

20:17You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality licensed therapists across the U.S. offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. and you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

20:59This is Nick and Jack from The Best One Yet, and we are excited to tell you about Walmart business. Staying ahead of business trends means moving fast and adapting quickly. Walmart business helps you simplify operations so you can focus on building the next big thing. Find exactly what your organization needs with their ever-expanding business assortment and everyday low prices. Keep your momentum going fast with reliable shipping and fulfillment. Eligible organizations can take advantage of tax-free shopping, both in-store and online, saving you more while getting you everything you need. It's Walmart built for your business.

21:29Sign up for a free Walmart business account today at business.walmart.com. Blood donation is now more inclusive. More LGBTQ plus individuals are able to donate blood with the American Red Cross due to FDA guidelines that eliminate eligibility questions based on sexual orientation. The Red Cross celebrates this historic change and welcomes those who may be newly eligible to donate blood. There's a place for everyone in the mission of the Red Cross, including you. The Red Cross is committed to achieving a blood donation process that treats all potential donors with equality and respect while maintaining the safety of the blood supply.

22:05Join us and help save lives. To learn more and make your appointment to donate blood, visit redcrossblood.org. That's redcrossblood.org.

22:21Rachel: So we're just a few weeks away from the start of the Euros, of course, and we wanted to find out how things are shaping up on the ground in Switzerland. So joining us for part two of the show is football journalist Craig King. Craig, welcome to the pod and thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me on. How ready is Switzerland for the tournament? Give us your eyes and ears take on what's actually happening out there right now. Yeah, I think they've been ready pretty much since before they were announced as hosts. It was such an importance placed on this tournament coming to Switzerland.

22:54they don't get a lot of these major events. They had Euro 2008 on the men's side, which is shared with Austria. They had the Europe League final in 2016, but this time the spotlight's firmly on Switzerland. There's stadiums there that wouldn't necessarily get to host any of these big events that weren't built in 2008. And yes, so there's just a lot of excitement in that regard. It's going to cross the whole country and everybody can get involved. And so to be awarded the hosting rights was a massive thing. You touched on the stadiums there. Do you feel the infrastructure is ready? I'm sure some people remember that some of the pledge funding for the tournament was withdrawn by the government last year.

23:33Has that impacted things? And I guess as well, in terms of stadia, there was worries about the smaller stadiums, but I guess do you feel like at least they're most likely going to be full? Yeah, they'll definitely be fooled. You know, it is probably unusual because last time England had so many big stadiums there and the biggest one in this tournament is 38 ,000, the smallest one is only 9 ,000 and everyone else is obviously somewhere in between that. So there is kind of some issues there maybe with capacity, especially at a time when the game's bigger than it's ever been, to then kind of downsize in a way to come back to Switzerland.

24:08But also maybe that shouldn't rule Switzerland out of being able to, you know, take part in these things. There was a couple that wanted to host Lausanne being an example, but they ended up, they had, I think it's a gymnastics world championship or something like that. That's the newest stadium, so they're not going to be in it. And then in Bern, they wanted to host the final, but they can only get up to the quarterfinal now because they need to take away their artificial turf and they're worried about a new season. So Basil gets the final and small things like that, you know, and you touch on the funding issue, that was disappointing.

24:42and they cut the funding down to like 4 million from I think it was 16 million or 15 million. The Euro 2008 had like 80 million funding and there was a lot of protests, 16 ,000 signatures and then it's back up to 15 million which you know ideally would be higher than that. They just went back to what they've originally had but at least it's not as low as 4 million.

25:05Rachel: How much buzz would you say there is amongst football fans and the public generally? I think as of February, there's been over 500 ,000 tickets already sold, 700 ,000 available throughout the tournament. I remember sort of a couple of months ago, we did sort of a bit of audience research to see who would actually be going out there. And we were finding that roughly it was a bit of a 50-50 split because obviously you've got, you know, the tournament being expensive. You don't know how far the Lionesses are going to get. You don't know what the excitement's like on the ground or how, you know, how much you're going to have to pay to be out there for either the first week or going into the third week.

25:34Rachel: But yeah, how much buzz is there amongst fans on the ground and people that you've spoken to who might be coming over as well? Yeah, well, for myself, there's a couple of my friends that are coming over as well. And, you know, there's people in the kind of Swiss football scene who predominantly I used to cover the men's side of it and people from that side of it, you know, are going to games across the country. So that excitement is there. The attendance records have been broken like four times in the last two years. So the buzz in general has just kept growing and growing. And I think that's just going to continue throughout the tournament.

26:08I think it doesn't really matter if Switzerland do well or not. I think it's just the fact that this is here. And it's been a journey really since. And I guess a lot of similar level countries have had the same kind of journey where, you know, it's taken a long time to build this up. But for Switzerland, the last two years, it's just kind of like a rocket's been strapped to the back. And, you know, it's just opened up so many possibilities. We've got to talk about the Switzerland squad, how they're going to reveal the Switzerland squad, which is going to be a very unique way later in the week.

26:38And that feels like a really clever way of getting people invested. Can you tell our listeners how they're planning to reveal the Switzerland squad? From the 20th of June until the 23rd, they're having a scavenger hunt across the country. Basically, the fans of the team will be able to find out the players. There's going to be clues and then they'll obviously find out and reveal a player name in the squad. and it was quite a surprise because we were always told that 24th of June was going to be the announcement and then there were some teasers just a few days ago and it was almost like they were going to reveal it on that day and then they've obviously announced this scavenger hunt but they've always been quite good at the squads some of the videos that they've released in the past for the World Cup squad announcement and the last Euros really kind of pulls on the heartstrings and they're always really good but this one's definitely different I've never seen anything like this before I'm interested to see how it actually works.

27:30It sounds great in theory, but I just feel like it could be a bit chaotic. You know, everybody just free for all trying to discover names. Yeah, yeah. And I feel like there could be some red herons and things like that. But yeah, no, it's definitely unique and pretty cool. Well, let's talk about then how Switzerland are looking going into this. Because as you said, look, there's no easy groups in Euros. but arguably if they were to pick a group that would have been the group they wanted to be in I'm right in thinking Norway, Iceland and Finland right, all the flags with the pluses in the middle which is quite nice but yeah, how are they looking going into this because their last two tournaments have been tough group stage exit in 2022 how do you feel they might do?

28:16Can they get out of this group? They can definitely get out of the group, this is a group like a city that there's nothing really to fear they're similar level teams, maybe Norway's a little bit above them, Iceland maybe as well, but they can certainly compete with them. But it's been kind of unusual because obviously the Nations League just passed, they had Norway and Iceland in that group and in some ways you were kind of excited to see if they could compete against these teams and kind of give a preview to the tournament, but then they really underperformed against those teams, didn't win any of those games and that kind of put a dampener on things because you want to see some kind of evidence that they're going to go and do it in the tournament.

28:53And they might still do that, you know, in a much more competitive setting at least. But yeah, there wasn't really anything there that would suggest that they're going to go and do that. But strangely, I also am more optimistic about this group of players than I have been for any Swiss team in the last three tournaments that they've been at. And they've not done badly the last few tournaments. You know, they've competed, but they've just not really got themselves over the line. The first World Cup, they did really well. first Euros they competed again and then just missed out and then again at the last Euros they started really well against Portugal and then threw away a two goal lead and it's those kind of things that kind of let them down even against Netherlands in that last group game they came back with like 10 minutes left and only lost the game in the last 10 minutes so it's things like that where they need to take the next step and I feel like this is the sort of group that gives them that platform to then go and do that

29:46Rachel: What impact do you think Pia Sundarge will have on the squad going into a major international tournament like that? I mean, obviously she took over January 2024 and sort of started to make a bit of an impact. But this is, I suppose, one of the first real opportunities that she'll be put to the test with this squad of players. Yeah, how do you see her sort of faring? Yeah, I think generally her appointment we've seen is quite a big thing for Switzerland. You know, very highly respected experience. She's had a lot of big jobs. and to get someone of her calibre was quite an impressive thing. I think it kind of summed it up from her point of view as well.

30:22Not long into the job, she went to a second division team to watch the women's team play. The stadium's like a really small, typical second division stadium. There's not high capacity and she basically said to the media afterwards that she expected a lot more. She expected there to be proper stands and things like this. so I don't really know if she knew what she was getting into. But yeah, she's been good so far. They've had some good results. They beat France, they drew with Australia, they played England at the tail end of last year and only lost 1-0, played really well in that game. But then on the flip side, they've had a lot of heavy defeats as well and I mentioned those games against Iceland and Norway where things just didn't click.

31:04And then, of course, those heavy defeats against Germany and teams like that. So there has been pros and cons so far but also I don't think you really look at the team and look at the coach and think of anybody else right away that could come in and do any better or change the team drastically. So I still think she's a good fit so far but this tournament really will be a good test of where the team stands and what she brings to the team. I'm convinced that teams that face each other in the Nations League that will face each other in the Euros are just luring them into a false sense of security.

31:35It doesn't matter if they don't win loads of stuff in the Nations League because who really cares? and then come the Euros and the home squad maybe it'll be a different story. How much will Ramona Backman's ACL injury impact things? Every major tournament there's always a key player or two or more that ends up with the dreaded ACL injury. How is that being received? It's really disappointing first and foremost because once in a career sort of thing to play at a home tournament. She's been there for the last few tournaments at Switzerland, all the tournaments at Switzerland have been at and to miss out like this, really disappointing.

32:11And Switzerland had a similar thing for the World Cup. They had Iman Beni, who, 16-year-old, broke onto the scene, really only played a handful of games that season, but had a good season with young boys. And then she was called up, Switzerland's youngest ever call-up for a tournament, just a few days before. She tore her ACL as well and missed out. So just really bad luck that Switzerland seemed to have. But then again, it's just a recurring problem, isn't it? Ramona Backman, I think, going into a tournament, if you had to pick any of the four tournaments that she's been around the team in for her to miss, it would be this one, just because performance-wise and how crucial she is to the team on the pitch, maybe it isn't as important as it has been in those last three tournaments.

32:55Obviously, you don't want to lose her, but you've got other players that can step in and do a job as well. But influence-wise, you can't replace that influence. She's the second most capped player, second high school scorer for Switzerland all time. And she's the only player alongside Jürgen Schickere to score for Switzerland at three consecutive tournaments. So, you know, you can't really replace that. So it's going to be, it is a big miss, but also I think it kind of will drive the team on as well because she's been such an important figure that they can then go and try and deliver for her as well.

33:29Rachel: Well, obviously there's quite a few sort of big name players who maybe the squad will sort of lean into. Obviously, you've got Leah Valti there. You've got a whole host of Noel Moritz. We've seen, I don't know how many times, me and Rachel talk about Pubell at West Ham and how incredible she's been in the season, sort of lighting up the stage when she comes on. Who are the sort of key players that you're looking forward to seeing in the squad the most? Yeah, so those ones you mentioned as well, and then Geraldine Reuter, who kind of goes under the radar quite a lot. but she's always been very important for the team.

34:03And you touch on that experience across the squad, there's so many, you know, we've just had the Champions League winner as well, another Champions League winner added to the squad. And then also the player that I keep kind of going on about for the last year or so is Sydney Schertenleip, who joined Barcelona last summer. I think she was only 16, 17 when she joined, but it was totally kind of unheard of for a player to come from the Swiss League to then join probably the best club team in the world. and that was a massive thing for the game as well. You know, you couldn't really predict that even a few years ago.

34:34It's important to remember that the league only got major sponsorship in 2020. You know, it's still been growing and it's not by any means a really high quality league. So for her to get that move was massive. She's already kind of stamped her way into the team. You know, she's scored her first goal and she's already so important to that team. So she's the one that I really think will have a breakthrough tournament there. and of course there's other ones throughout that squad you've got Anna Maria Serna-Gorjevic I'm testing my pronunciation now but yeah she's obviously the highest scorer and highest cap player as well so yeah there's a lot of good players in this team that can really deliver especially on the attacking front I think the only real issue going into the tournament defensively Switzerland aren't the best but they've got a kind of a decent defence there but I think the only major issue that you don't really have any clarity on is the goalkeeping situation as well.

35:30I have to ask you the big question now. How far will Switzerland go in this tournament? Yeah, I think they'll get out of the group and I don't know exactly who they can face but I feel they can play Spain which, for my liking, they've played Spain too many times over the last few years. We all have. They played them, yeah. Whatever happens after that happens, as long as they don't really disgrace themselves Wilson could be like 12-0, then I think we'll be all right, but I may have jinxed that now.

35:59Rachel: We'll definitely hold you to that. We'll have you on after the pod to see if that prediction came true. Really, really appreciate you jumping on, Craig, and giving us your insights. Thank you, Craig. Thanks so much for having me on.

36:23Rachel: OK, so after Saturday, there was little to no news going on in the England camp for quite some time. We still have had some news on our shores. Obviously, big news breaking today, which is quite nice to be able to react to it straight off the bat. The WSL will be expanding to 14 teams. Rach, what were your initial thoughts on that? I know that we were both involved in some discussions last week. We had a little catch up about it and what that kind of might look like. but yeah I mean super interesting that we're going to now see two teams from the championship going up into the WSL making sure I suppose that the bottleneck that we kind of saw being created around the top of the championship last year trying to ease off this won't take effect until next season so the 2026-27 season which is super super interesting but Rach do you think this is a long time coming this feels like the right time to kind of look at ways to increase the top level yeah I think after all the leaks and the various narratives about what was going to happen and what might happen and what might get tried and we've just ended up with what we all kind of thought was the best way to do things which is expanding the league and you know I think just for clarification it's it's the start of the 26-27 season so it will continue with the same round-robin format where you play and each other automatic promotion and relegation alongside the addition of a promotion relegation playoff.

37:49So in order to expand the WSL to 14 teams for the start of the 26-27 season, it was agreed that up to three teams, up to three teams, will be promoted from WSL 2 championship. Sorry. So the top two teams will automatically be promoted and then there'll be a playoff between the 12th place WSL team and the third place WSL 2 team at the end of the 25-26 season. So that's the coming season. in order to get the league up to 14 teams quite quickly. So it's good to see that it's not going to be across a number of seasons, that we're not going to have an uneven number of teams for a while. It's just going to be done in a kind of quick way in a single season.

38:32And then the WSL will be up to 14 teams. And then it will go back to top two teams would be promoted automatically. So there will be a relegation from the WSL and then there'll be promotion from WSL2 and there will still be a playoff from 13th and 2nd place, if I'm right. So there will still be a kind of playoff option as well each season. So, yeah, it's exciting. It's kind of what we expected and I'm glad that that was the conclusion that was come to.

39:08Rachel: Yeah, definitely. I know obviously we were at kind of a little bit of a meeting last week with the WPLL. they provided some really interesting sort of context, I suppose, behind why the decision was made, why they decided to do it in sort of a more staggered way and sort of why this was the right time. And I think, you know, a lot of the decision making obviously comes from looking at the international calendar and sort of seeing, you know, how many available free weekends there actually are throughout the season. I think once you start to factor in the Champions League and the sort of the double headers, the FA Cups, the Subway League Cups, now the sort of the international tournaments that take place, there was only sort of so many available weekends that you could actually physically fit in having those additional fixtures so that they have been I suppose a little bit sort of not sort of constrained by those I suppose but they've had to do it in a way that obviously fits around the rest of the international and tournament schedules.

39:53Rachel: I think also in terms of making sure that the WSL and the quality of the WSL isn't diluted too much so from the sort of understanding they were providing was that you know at the moment currently the sort of WSL is probably the second ranked in the world when you look at the sort of the quality within those leagues that NWSL being the front runner at the moment. But I think obviously what they want to do is... Yeah, but then you've got to define what the word quality is. Yeah, 100%. And obviously that's very, very subjective. And obviously I think a lot of people would probably disagree and say that WSL has probably pipped the NWSL in that respect.

40:24Rachel: Oh God, let's not get into that debate. I think it was also a case of, you know, wanting teams to get into the WSL, but also making sure that, you know, you weren't having teams that weren't ready or didn't have the quality of players enough behind them and had the infrastructure there ready to actually compete at the highest level, you know, with the likes of your top fours and your top five teams and that we weren't seeing sort of, you know, dead rubber games where you just knew that the score was going to be an absolute spanking. So I think, yeah, I can understand why this decision has come about now.

40:49Rachel: And I, yeah, I really welcome it. Yeah, for sure. That's the main thing. That's what we need to remember. It's a growing league. And I think, yeah, what I do really like is the fact that now there's sort of more to play for within the championship and that, you know, we're not seeing that same level of bottleneck where you've got teams that, you know, one or two points apart the entire time and could easily make it into the WSL and would give the WSL teams a run for their money but don't have the opportunity to do so more so yeah I think it's um it's a good move and I feel like it's being done in a fairly measured way the second piece of interesting commentary around the WSL in the past week um so we've had a bit of data come in uh one telling us that attendances fell last season and another saying that the revenue for the 2023-24 season was higher than ever.

41:32Rachel: Obviously, Bristol City were relegated, which clearly didn't help. But there were other factors at play. I mean, Rach, I mean, just sort of anecdotally, I suppose, I mean, you've obviously gone to quite a few games, you've had your bum on seats, you've kind of seen, you know, some of the big games play out. But even the likes of, you know, your arsenals, who were getting, what, three or four sellout crowds at the Emirates last year, we haven't seen a single sellout at the Emirates this year, which kind of felt like, you know, that was that was naturally going to happen. But we never saw it unfold do we does it feel like one of those situations you're always the calm cool head give us some rational decisions behind this and that we couldn't obviously stay at that level for the entire time and every arsenal game was never going to be a sellout you're always going to have fixtures that people aren't going to want to go to and this is just part and parcel of the growth of the game like i think you've got it first of all i think like i hate the attendance narrative i think it's such a non-narrative sometimes and so much is drawn from figures that's a bit unnecessary in my opinion in a growing game the idea that every season we're going to continue to break records is a bit naive and we've just come off the back of a summer and arguably the Olympics is not a major big big kind of watched football tournament we didn't have a major tournament this summer and we always see a peak um in attendance figures after a major tournament so we're comparing to 2022-23 where we had a Euros and a World Cup and the Lionesses did won and got to a final.

42:55So obviously there's going to be a big impact in that. This idea that like, the fact that revenue is growing is really what you're wanting, right? You know, if Arsenal get, they played more games at the Emirates this season. If they got an average 40, I don't know, 45 ,000 attendance across 10 games, but got five, 60 ,000 attendances last year, you know what I mean? Like there are reasons why it might drop a little bit, but we're always so like picky about attendances you know only 75 000 turned up when you said it was going to be 80 like as if that's bad do you know what i mean i think what i found interesting anecdotally is i felt like clubs like west ham clubs like brighton are starting to improve um in terms of attendance figures which i think is really important because a lot of the time the arsenal figures will skew the overall narrative so if they drop a little bit everything's considered dropping but if you look down at this article in the BBC, Liverpool, Tottenham, Leicester, Brighton, West Ham, I think have ever so slightly increased their average.

44:00And even Chelsea have increased their average. But they're the teams that everyone would say, well, oh yeah, great, you're getting 60 ,000 at Arsenal, but what about your Liverpools, your Tottenhams? And they are growing their tendencies, which is really important. It takes time, you know, and I think in the article, which kind of really irked me was about Aston Villa and how their numbers dropped because they moved to Villa Park. So it says it does not look to have paid off the idea of going to Villa Park, which I just think is so reductive that to expect all of these changes in a single season is naive.

44:39It doesn't happen like that. I mean, look at Blackburn who said, well, we played at our main stadium and our attendance didn't increase. It's like, well, did you market it? did you try and get people in? Like it takes more than just putting it at a main stadium. It takes time. Arsenal have taken years to grow the audiences to the numbers they have. So for me, this narrative isn't a big problem. You know, I think there will be a spike again off the back of the Euros, particularly if England and Wales do well. I think that obviously England more so because of the success they've had in recent years.

45:10I think that will have an impact. But, you know, you look at now Arsenal have announced are going to be playing every WSL game at the Emirates. That has taken a number of years for them to get to that point because it takes time to grow it. So I'm not worried. It's not that big a deal for me.

45:26Rachel: Come on, mate. I could always rely on you to be the voice of reason. Absolutely love that. That's exactly the assurance, I think, that we all needed. And I think you mentioned there sort of how important it kind of feels that the Lionesses kind of have a good run at the Euros, appreciate things are a little bit, you know, up in the air at the moment. That's definitely not a guarantee. and even getting out the group stages could be an absolute challenge. But yeah, it does always feel like off the back of the Euros last year and the impact that we saw that have on the domestic game and sort of, you know, getting those higher attendances.

45:54Rachel: And we saw like a new wave of people wanting to have the games at the main stadium after that. And it kind of felt like there was this real positive energy and drive. And I think it's obviously always important that you have, you know, a national team that does well because that success naturally does filter out into, you know, just the WSL, the championship and also the national leagues and lower below as well. and also in terms of sort of grassroots participation, you know, girls seeing what they do on the international stage and just wanting to get involved in football, not even with the sort of sense of making it to elite level, but just wanting to, you know, get out there and try the sport for the first time.

46:24Rachel: Or the kind of lost generation. We had so many players who were coming, you know, back into the game from their 50s and their 60s, you know, after, you know, the impact of the ban and sort of, you know, having that inspiration from the Lionesses to, you know, get back into the game. And I think it was after COVID as well and so many people needed that kind of really jubilant moment. And I think, you know, same time round, really, there's so much awful, awful things going on in the world. I think, you know, a lovely run in the tournament and at least getting to the semifinals obviously has a massive impact on everyone's general good mood and vibe anyway, as well as the women's football businesses that exist in the space.

46:56Rachel: So, yeah, it is really important that Lionesses have a good run, but that is by no means a guaranteed thing at all. We do have a really good question in from Liene on Instagram that is very relevant to this discussion. they said do either of you want to see a women's club world competition would it be good for the game something i'd need to do a bit more research into to be honest because my automatic reaction is no i don't want more football and i think having seen that calendar in that recent meeting you realize how congested the schedule is already and the idea of adding more in just seems like a terrible idea and but as i said i feel like i would need to research it more and look at it more from rather than just the loading side of things but also the impact the commercial impact the opportunities to play different types of teams I feel like I'd need to proper delve into that before I gave like a proper answer but my automatic one is always a bit like ah not more football yeah I think it's that I think we've talked so much I suppose about the scheduling and sort of the impact that that's going to have and player loading and health and safety and also mental well-being for the for the players as well sort of going into another tournament you know we did see something super positive I suppose with the World 7s you know the general feel was that it was a great opportunity to see more players the players were kind of afforded a little bit more of an opportunity to show their personalities and it was kind of seen as a bit of a light-hearted sort of funny but very competitive tournament that obviously you know there was a lot to play for so you did have that kind of you know the tenacity and want it wasn't a you know a funny little run out yes there were some funny moments I suppose in the tournament but there was a lot to play for but yeah I think it'll be really interesting to see what happens I suppose we've got a bit of a template with the men's club world cup and to kind of see like what the outcome is of that because i know even from sort of speaking to yeah the sort of the the men's um side of things and they're not that fussed about the tournament doesn't seem to be that sort of um you want to talk about attendances yeah it's um it doesn't doesn't seem like a it's going too well at the moment so i think yeah like let's maybe reassess the position after the conclusion of that tournament and see where we stand before we think about having the women's one one in thank you so much for listening Rach and I will of course be back next week as usual you can find us on Instagram and x slash Twitter I'm at morgi underscore 89 Rach is at girls on the ball and we are at upfront underscore pod you can also find us on Blue Sky and on YouTube at upfront pod thank you so much Rach Auf Wiedersehen, au revoir, ciao ticking off all the languages they speak in Switzerland I think nice one, thanks for that mate made my job easier

49:40Rachel: Upfront is a stack production and part of the ACAST Creator Network.

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