#3257 Southern Charm S11E15: The Party of DeCraigulation

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1:00Watch What Crappens

1:01Ben Mandelker: Hello, Ronnie. How are you?

1:05Ronnie Karam: How are you? I'm good. I'm good. South by Southwest is this weekend, so we're getting ready to party. But before we do, got some more recaps to get done. Get did it did. We've got Southern Charm today. In the meantime, if you want video recaps or you want bonus episodes, this week was a Top Chef cast breakdown. Or if you want a newsletter, well, that's free. It's like a blog about the week in Bravo. or if you want Discord community or if you want something else, ad-free listening. Be my lover. You want to be my lover? You're going to have to be my friend. Go to Patreon. Okay, that's where you get that.

1:47Ronnie Karam: Patreon.com slash watchwalkrabbons. And now it's time for Southern Charm, season 11, episode 15, Carolina Dazed. What a scrum's your season for now.

2:01Ben Mandelker: Yes, the big, tremendous, exciting season finale. It was so impactful that I actually, now that I think about it, I'm realizing I had a dream about it, and that's really scary. But yeah, Southern Charm, am I right? It gets into your head.

2:19Ronnie Karam: yeah what an episode well the tides are finally turning on craig it looks like because we saw the preview for the reunion and craig's like everyone's mean to me i'm leaving i don't even know if i'm coming back oh please those pillows ain't gonna sell themselves get your ass back over here and

2:37Ben Mandelker: get your squares sewn yeah that's exactly right the moment he leaves the show is the moment that sewing down south goes south so he will have to report for duty starting next season once again

2:48Ronnie Karam: that's the minute that jerry dumps you and gives sally a chicken raising business that's right

2:54Ben Mandelker: yeah yeah the and what a joy that would be for us and the chickens it's the moment drop hop enters the big leagues oh she'll be just as good at raising chickens as

3:07Ronnie Karam: you are at sewing your pillows ah so here we go previously this season guys who cares so um it's uh the everyone's still in mexico having dinner after their sweat lodge spiritual healing session where everybody learned something except craig because he only stayed for like five minutes yeah so they're having dinner and um shep's like sally would you like to say something she's like no i just want to sit on this side and mix it up a little bit so i'm gonna sit next to craig

3:36Ben Mandelker: who you mix it up

3:44Ben Mandelker: so Shep is like gosh is anyone else is anyone else secretly in love with our shaman and also what we know you

3:58Ben Mandelker: what we know you are hot and he's like yeah she was hot and I was like whoa Shep is like wow she was so cool and so insightful maybe get her move to get her to move to solvents yeah

4:13Ronnie Karam: molly's like well now that you've got your new house it's a home i love molly's stink eye that she gives molly always looks like she's smelling a fart you've just got that look on her face and

4:23Ben Mandelker: i love that about her she's like yeah she's hot yeah well she's probably still like i can't believe i just sat in a sweat lodge oh no she didn't go to the sweat lodge i think she got a massage She's probably like, ew, I can't believe all these people just went to a sweat lodge.

4:41Ronnie Karam: And Sally's like, I sweated out all my negative energy today. Anybody like someone with no negative energy? Hey, boys. And Shep's like, well, we're all so nice to each other for the first time. Look, I know you all heard about Austin's birthday. No one else is going to start drama, so I guess I'm going to have to. Wow, what a nice spiritual dinner. Let's talk about Craig and Austin fighting at that birthday dinner. Okay? A lot of contentious things were said. And I wanted you to come here, you know, to resolve it and come to a beautiful conclusion after tonight. Especially, you know.

5:19Ben Mandelker: Well, hopefully there's no acrimony. And, you know, you guys can just live your lives and be friendly. Because that has always worked traditionally with you two. Yeah, because life is good. Especially when you go to Cuba. I speak Spanish now. So Austin's like, look, I think that's the way it has to be. Like, Craig, we were on the same path for the longest fucking time, but people just, like, grow in their respective lives, or at least I stay still and other people grow. And I think that it, like, affected me more than Craig, right? Because, like, Craig was like, I'm in a relationship now. And I'm like, what about me, dude?

5:53Ben Mandelker: Like, I'm a cat dad now, you know? And Craig and I were just, like, attached to the hip for, like, so fucking long. I just think it's, like, hit me really hard.

6:00Ronnie Karam: And this is just, they're trying so hard because really not that much has happened this season. And they're at the season finale and they've come all the way to Mexico. And it's like, is anybody going to fight? Anybody? So Whitney and Shep try to bring it forward and Austin gives it a good go. But still nothing's happening. So Shep's like, oh, Craig, you're on this show. You still get paid. So would you like to say anything? And he's like, uh, well, like sometimes like thoughts that you have in your head, you just like assume that people understand. But sorry, this is really hard. What are we fighting about again?

6:36Ronnie Karam: Line?

6:37Ben Mandelker: Well, I definitely do not understand a single thing that's in your head ever. And Craig's like, I know. But because like I'm just saying like to me, my opinion or like reference ship never changed.

6:51Ronnie Karam: Our relationship never changed. Sorry, mistypes. Typo.

6:55Ben Mandelker: I know. But the thing is this, with Craig, I can imagine Craig saying our reference ship. Yeah. Which is like the relationship of their references, right? Like our reference ship just never changed. But I respect that. You feel that it's different. So, yeah.

7:13Ronnie Karam: I've always hated you. I've always low-key hated you, Austin. Nothing has changed. He's like, but it is different. And that's okay. that is okay you know craig is a tough cookie to crack now why would you want to crack a cookie so hard cookie i don't know cracking cookies but when you get some sort of remorse from craig it's huge win was that remorse was it what are you projecting remorse onto craig there is no remorse he just told you what you said is completely invalid and craig's like well i love that we're having this combo and like whatever part like you'll have me in your life like i'm there for unless it's like something i don't want to do or something to do with one of your businesses which you don't have you fucking loser i'm sorry i'm sort of getting hung up on austin

8:04Ben Mandelker: saying that craig is a tough cookie to crack because i was like is that the expression

8:10Ronnie Karam: who's trying to crack cookies like you try to crack you were last friday night you little thin mint. You better tell me right now. I know you did it.

8:18Ben Mandelker: What is Austin talking about? Is he just like putting a cookie on the table and just trying to smash it or something with his fists? What is he doing?

8:27Ronnie Karam: You're calling yourself an oatmeal, but I know there's some peanut butter in you. I can taste it. What am I, an idiot? Tell me the truth, cookie.

8:34Ben Mandelker: There's an extra ingredient in this cookie, and I don't know what it is, but I swear to God I'm going to crack it. Is it a Brazil nut? No. Is it a cranberry? No.

8:46Ronnie Karam: Brown sugar, white sugar, chocolate chip, walnut, flour. You've got 10 seconds left. You can't crack the cookie code. It was butter. Get out of here.

8:58Ben Mandelker: The judge is Bose.

9:02Ronnie Karam: You've got 10 seconds left. What kind of cookie cult is this? Never heard of such a thing.

9:09Ben Mandelker: I'm going to draw in my manifestation journal now. tough cookie to crack according to Google is a malaphor which I didn't even know there was such a thing as a malaphor

9:19Ronnie Karam: is that a malformed metaphor?

9:22Ben Mandelker: yeah it has nothing to do with Cynthia Bailey's sister Mal hi I'm Mal a malaphor is a mashup of two different idioms so in this case it combines tough cookie and a tough nut to crack so oddly enough it sounds like a cookie I know. What if you make a cookie with nuts that are hard to crack on the inside?

9:50Ronnie Karam: So Craig tells us, I love Austin and I think he loves me, but we need to be strangers again. And then our old friendship needs to be put to bed and we need to start over for those predisposed notions to get out the door.

10:07Ben Mandelker: Predisposed notions.

10:10Ronnie Karam: I'm sorry, everyone.

10:11Ben Mandelker: Your notion is predisposed to alcoholism. We're going to have to get rid of it.

10:18Ronnie Karam: Craig and Austin both try to Shep talk. And Shep can barely do it. Shep mispronounces half of the big words he uses. So, guys, just stop.

10:27Ben Mandelker: Well, I don't want to have any preconceived notions about them. But I would have to agree with you. And I say this as someone who often...

10:35Ronnie Karam: Stop trying to vilify my accomplishments.

10:40bravo english there should be a bravo dictionary i know but you know what to be fair how many times

10:47Ben Mandelker: do we say just ridiculous things on this show like to i mean how many times yeah we're because like you know like no dead air no dead air so like in the rush to fill up space the amount of metaphors i um misuse is just like mortifying we fill a lot of dead air with dead brain so we know

11:03Ronnie Karam: We know that we're hypocrites. Why do I look purple? Look at me. I look like I'm dying. I look like I'm suffocating. Look at me.

11:11Ben Mandelker: What is that?

11:13Ronnie Karam: I don't know, but I have my lights on. I have no idea why I'm so purple.

11:17Ben Mandelker: I feel like I'm very bright today. You are. I just... The sun is shining on my face today.

11:23Ronnie Karam: Maybe I need to get closer to the light.

11:24Ben Mandelker: I just have a light. I have a light shining down on me. Do I look good now? My loom cube. Hashtag loom cube.

11:32Ronnie Karam: I call it a LumiCube, but whatever. That's just my predisposed notion. Okay, keep talking. I'm going to adjust my lights. Literally nothing happened in this episode.

11:42Ben Mandelker: Lighting is a tough cookie to crack. While you fix your lighting, I'll move on. It's time for a commercial. It's time for a Crappens commercial. Ronnie, there are some moments when I crave a little treat. Do you ever have those moments?

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14:33Ben Mandelker: Weight loss by HERS is not available everywhere. Compounded drug products are not approved or evaluated for safety effectiveness or quality by the FDA. Prescription required. See website for full details. Important safety information and restrictions. Actual price depends on product and plan purchased. Austin and I have a lot of work to do, but we'll figure it out. So, yeah, I hope you guys enjoyed that. Which is, by the way, that's the way you just end progress. Yeah, it's a lot, but we'll figure it out. You're not going to figure it out because you're supposed to figure it out right now. And you're not going to.

15:06Ben Mandelker: You guys just don't like each other.

15:07Ronnie Karam: You don't like each other. And that's okay.

15:10Ben Mandelker: It's over. It's over. It's done. The friendship is done.

15:13Ronnie Karam: It's done.

15:15Ben Mandelker: So they're all happy. And then they start eating food. And Rodrigo's like, so I've got to ask you this. girlfriend what happened last night you know in that van that was um see i don't even know enough gay slang to finish this this is why we don't this is why we're not invited to glad media awards it was so funny i was looking at all these pictures like everyone was like at the glad media awards like meredith marx and that and this podcast and that podcast and like does glad know that we are two gay men who host a podcast like we are gay people why aren't we ever invited to glad stuff and then i'm sitting here being like i don't even know the gay slang to use to make fun of rodrigo right now um so rodrigo does bring this up but it's because

16:04Ronnie Karam: craig is like yeah you know um austin we've got work to do but we're gonna you know i hope you guys enjoyed my peaceful my peaceful soliloquy or whatever and vanita's like wow that's the calmest discussion i've seen in weeks yeah but generally that's how i treat people so okay anyway so rodrigo's like uh-huh everyone's looking at him like oh yeah right craig so rodrigo's like okay so what happened last night then and he says well a lot of times it feels like people get involved in my business and sometimes i can't process it as well as i could but i mean it's not that big of a deal when people are in your business it's just it's a trigger yeah i'm gonna

16:40Ben Mandelker: use some more pop psychology tiktok words uh gpt like yes no sally was not in your business she just said oh my god your bangs are in your face and say shut the fuck up like he all she did was talk about your bangs and also like craig's whole thing his defense here and throughout the rest of the episode is that like he's fine just let people start up with him so like his his you know verbally violent reaction is totally justified because it's people who are messing with him yeah i see people

17:15Ronnie Karam: commenting a lot like well i don't blame craig because you know you keep poking the bear you keep poking the bear you keep poking the bear i see the comment poking the bear all the time you know what that comment means that like you're a bear like who wants to hang out with a bear exactly i don't want to be friends with a bear that you say one thing wrong and the bear bites your damn head off like i don't want to be friends with the bear right well it's this it's the same

17:38Ben Mandelker: reason why it's problematic if someone is like assaulted and you say well they had it coming or she shouldn't have dressed like that or something like that. The implication is that the attacker doesn't have to actually change their bad behavior. It's up to everyone to accommodate that behavior. If you don't accommodate correctly, well, you're at fault and we can't take any action on the other person. So it's like, no, it's the bad behavior that should be getting the reprimand, not the people asking simple questions or whatever.

18:10Ronnie Karam: I'm sorry, but you're really going off a lot on assault right now, and I don't think you heard that Craig was triggered. Craig was triggered. I apologize. That's a bad thing. You're allowed to get annoyed at people.

18:22Ben Mandelker: You're allowed to get annoyed at someone's, like, overstepping and being nosy, but you also, like, you also, doesn't mean you have a right to have any sort of reaction you want. You still have to behave like an adult and like a civilized member of society and not like a total rabbit lunatic in Tommy Bahama.

18:47Ronnie Karam: Yeah. In Tommy Bahama. So Sally's like, but I was so sad last night, Craig. And he's like, I'm sorry. But you should have come to my door and brought me a coffee this morning and apologized. He's like, I'm sorry. But you called me a loser. but I don't think that I would take that back in a heartbeat if I could I'm going to say that line a few more times this episode which doesn't give the impression that I got it from chat GP therapy

19:13Ben Mandelker: I'll say that line and I'm also only going to say that line when I'm confronted with my bad behavior I won't actually volunteer it even though I'm aware of my bad behavior so Sally's like you know he has this way of making amends that I've never seen before i'm like did he make amends because maybe that's why you didn't see it before because he's not making amends he's just responding to you to get you to be quiet you know he turns on his charm and a smile but like all you just kind of want just want you just want to make amends with him because you just don't want to happen again because you're so fucking terrified like i like sally saying i've just never seen someone make amends like that you mean someone's smiling to charm you but also like terrifying you uh to do it again i think that's like a pretty classic and awful behavior in in people and certain people you know and you should stay away

19:58Ronnie Karam: from them well it's a really long way of saying like he's mean but he's so cute yeah you just forgive him you just forgive him every time so she says thank you he's like what i said thank you well i mean i think if we talked more it would be good yeah what does that maybe what does that instead of you going behind her back the minute she tells you that she likes you and telling everybody that she's a fucking psychopath and then you know screaming in her face when she mentioned that your bangs were in your face yeah the only person who stopped the talking was you

20:35Ben Mandelker: craig you guys used to talk and you're the one who started acting crazy so charlie's like i mean it

20:40Ronnie Karam: is mind-boggling to me that sally is buying this apology because it just doesn't feel like it's

20:46Ben Mandelker: enough and of course and she's right because now sally sally who's been the most like fuck craig craig's not right i'm i'm done with i'm over craig he treats people wrong now like the moment that he smiles at her she's just like oh okay that's true but it's also charlie who was the exact same

21:04Ronnie Karam: way when this was all happening to other people and charlie was still liking craig now that charlie has gotten the ick by craig it's like he has this spell and once the spell is broken and you've been icked out then you see him for who he truly is we mentioned this on a recap yesterday and that's exactly what happens it's like he screamed in people's faces before and charlie didn't care but then she got the ick and now she's like oh gross why is she forgiving him well you just did it and then sally just did it when vanita was saying it to her you know it's like a right it's the cycle this year but the thing is that like i feel like charlie and probably you could argue

21:44Ben Mandelker: vanita got the ick on craig they saw him for who he is and like this is unacceptable but then sally gets the ick but she still goes back and she's still like oh he's still so cute like where is your ick fueled disdain you've abandoned it like that this is sad for you actually like you should actually be grossed out by everything he does now well i think sally is more um also conscious of wanting to be on the show well and also having mail approval yes so yes i think that

22:18Ronnie Karam: matters so um they're gonna go back to the hotel now and craig's like a perfect end to a perfect day like okay so they load into the vans and uh sally and charlie get in with craig and austin's like oh my god those girls immediately go into his van that's like funny to me they're like oh my god PTSD. I'm never going to ride in another van with Craig. I was like, okay, yeah, I'm going to jump right in the van with Craig.

22:43Ben Mandelker: Then he's right, by the way. That's a totally valid observation, and it just goes to show, you know, like, all this stuff is bullshit that they're saying. But Vanita holds her ground, and she's in the Austin van. So now we're back in Charleston, and it says, like, on screen, back in Charleston four days later. And, um, Madison and Brett are heading home with Teddy. little sweet teddy the baby teddy so they go they have the baby and they're in their car and uh teddy was in the hospital in the NICU for two weeks because she came in six weeks early so now she's able to like hold teddy and bring her home and it's like very sweet and cute and

23:23Ronnie Karam: lovely yeah and so it's first car ride and uh Madison's like make sure you drive good oh she just looks so cute you ever think you could love something so much and he's like yeah you. That's so cute. What a nice boring supportive man.

23:41Ben Mandelker: I know, right? And then Brett's like, are you ready for Irish twins? She's like, please. So they get home and... What are Irish twins? That's when you have two babies in the same calendar year.

23:54Ronnie Karam: I thought it was babies who aren't twins but they're just so drunk that they think they're twins. They're like, oh, hello. Look at you, you're in my bed now. I didn't know if I was seeing double or if it's another me. It's another me. We're twins. Drunk babies.

24:12Ben Mandelker: So basically, they get home and Hudson holds the baby. It's actually very sweet. Hudson's holding this baby and Madison starts to cry. It's like a really lovely scene. And she's like, Hudson holds Teddy like this. It's like my two babies. The only thing that would be better if it's also holding a little corn cob. and you know naming her after my late father it's like ted is the missing piece of my family you know i hope i'm not pregnant again because i only cry when i'm pregnant oh my god i'm such a beta

24:38Ronnie Karam: right now so now charlie is unpacking and she calls her mom and her mom's like what are you up to have that vacation did you please any man please tell me please tell me were you decent

24:52Ben Mandelker: okay she's like nah well mom i'm just like unpacking right now but it was good i went surfing. Did you say upright? Did you say upright? You know, your sister can stand upright on a surfboard. Can you do it? You can't quite do it, can you? I hope you

25:07Ronnie Karam: stood up, but not longer than any of the men, okay? She's like, no, mom, God.

25:13Ben Mandelker: Did any of the men see you fall over on the surfboard? That's really embarrassing for you. I would hate for that to happen to you, sweetheart.

25:20Ronnie Karam: So she's like, well, I mean, it was fun, but, hold on, let me make 20 faces. Well, I mean, Craig and Sally kind of got into it. I mean, it wasn't even an argument. He just kind of like went off on her. She's like, uh-oh. Was there a little bit of alcohol involved? You know how boys are? Was he drinking a little Southern Comfort? Boys will be boys. Boys will be boys. Was they having a sip of boys will be boys?

25:47Ben Mandelker: Well, for sure. But I've been, you know, absolutely blackout drunk before. I've never talked to someone that way. Normally when I get blackout drunk, I just give that face, you know, that really sad emoji face.

25:59Ronnie Karam: I know the face, honey, the sack boy face. We all know it in this family, honey. Please stop making that face. That face isn't decent.

26:08Ben Mandelker: Oh, honey, stop doing Charlie Brown crying over a baseball he missed.

26:12Ronnie Karam: Why are you looking like Snoopy's being strangled? Stop it.

26:17Ben Mandelker: Well, mom, it was a big turnoff for me, and I haven't really spoke to him since Mexico. And he called me yesterday. Oh, did you answer it? Did you answer it in a decent way, honey? She's like, no, I didn't. But you know he's the star of the show, right? You want to be famous, right? If you're not going to have a child, at least be famous, honey.

26:35Ronnie Karam: Yeah, and so we see that Craig was like, hey, I don't know if you saw that Patricia's having a Carolina Day party. She's like, yeah, I'm going to go with my friend. So Denise is like, you can talk at the party. Well, listen, y 'all need to have a conversation. Hold him accountable. You hold him accountable. We all need to be held accountable. We all need our hands held at night. So forgive him. Forgive you, poor lonely person. Listen, you want to be sitting and look at that couch next to you. Look how empty it is. Think about how much better you'd feel. There was a baby there. There could be a baby there.

27:09Ronnie Karam: A baby with a free pillow.

27:14Ben Mandelker: And she's basically like, well, mom, the other people in my friend group have known him a lot longer, but no one else really like holding him accountable because they don't feel like he'll be receptive to it. I'm like, yes, Charlie, as we've all seen, would be the perfect person to hold Craig Conover accountable. Despite, like, Shep and Austin basically yelling at Craig every single season about the things he does wrong, it's going to be Charlie who gets through to him.

27:37Ronnie Karam: Well, yeah. She's going to make Craig see the light. Yeah. The decent light. And the mom's like, well, you know what? Maybe it's like Patti LaBelle says. No, he needs a new attitude. That's what he needs.

27:51Ben Mandelker: Mom, I don't even know who that is. why does a pod lady have a song so now it's one hour before the carolina day party and everyone's getting ready and uh patricia arrives with eddie and ryan ryan makes his i think his first appearance of the season after his attempt at being a friend of last year yeah now he's back to just you know

28:11Ronnie Karam: arm candy gay yeah um and yeah and patricia comes in because she's throwing this party and so she's wearing like a champagne dress like with champagne not dress but jacket like with champagne bottles all over it and on one side the champagne bottles are right side up but the other side they're all like turned over and it just looks like she's being like attacked like she's walking through the streets and people are like shame shame and just throwing bottles at her like spilling all over her or something it's a disgraceful disgraceful look for carolina's day so it's

28:45Ben Mandelker: the usual thing it's the season finale party is in an old house with wooden floors and a raw iron gate outside that's how these seasons always end it's like the same place is it the same place it

28:56Ronnie Karam: looks like it's the same place every season finale they even have those little rooms they go off into

29:00Ben Mandelker: on the side where they yell at each other yeah yeah it's the same place right it's gotta be or maybe this is just a standard place in charleston but it always feels like they're in the same rickety old event space with like a little patch of garden in the front and a rot iron gate because I feel like that Rot-Iron Gate has been in the background of so many famous season finale scenes. I'll always remember Catherine and Ashley having a fight outside that gate. Was it season five where they had the big showdown and everyone was furious? I just feel like that Rot-Iron Gate was a character in that scene.

29:37Ben Mandelker: It was just standing there like, ladies, if this gets too much more, he did. I'm going to have to step in.

29:43Ronnie Karam: Yeah. A lot of them. Yeah, a lot of the season finales. and the one where Ryan was, who was Ryan fighting with in last year's season finale? In that little room?

29:53Ben Mandelker: He was fighting with JT. There was an issue because Ryan had, a barber had made like a racially insensitive joke. No, JT's, JT said that like Ryan's barber had made a racially insensitive joke or something like that. And then they're like, Ryan, how could you still go to this barber? Wasn't that the situation?

30:14Ronnie Karam: Oh gosh. Remember it was like a whole thing.

30:17Ben Mandelker: to go yeah and they were like they sat ryan down and they like were all in this one room but people kept coming into it and ryan was trying to like defend himself and he's like no i spoke to the barber and he said he obviously didn't do that and you shouldn't listen to jt about this sort of stuff because it was an issue with venita but then he people just kept them like madison's in there and then leva then patricia and just everyone kept pouring into the room yeah i don't know why i

30:38Ronnie Karam: remember it so vividly all of a sudden um okay so carolina day commemorates the defeat at british Sullivan's Island in 1776. But basically, it's an excuse for us to use Randy as a pinata. Have people beat him with a baseball bat. All right, y 'all. I gave Randy some pez today. Just go out there and hit him until it falls out.

31:06Ben Mandelker: Don't worry if you make him bleed. He can't call 911 on account of the fact that he put his phone in the air fryer this morning.

31:18Ronnie Karam: Patricia, you look lovely. She's like, oh, thank you. You look handsome as always. Your mouth is still moving. Are you saying something? I'm trying to read your lips. No, what do you mean?

31:31Ben Mandelker: And then Eddie, who's one of the two gays, is like, Austin, you need a pin for your jacket. I know. I know. It keeps falling. My God. My collar is awful. God, I may have to put it down a little bit farther. Maybe like that. I don't know. Velvet. Why am I wearing velvet at this heat?

31:45Ronnie Karam: I've never seen velvet in summer. Don't know why you do that. He's like, well, I probably shouldn't have worn velvet. I'm fucking sweating. I'm sweating. But I'm wearing the tie that Craig gave me. It's made out of feathers.

32:00Ben Mandelker: God, sometimes you forget you're so busy taking care of your cats. When you're a cat dad, do you wear velvet in the summer by accident?

32:08Ronnie Karam: So Charlie comes and Rodrigo and Tyler come. Everybody's coming, you know. and rodrigo's like i'm sorry girlfriend but i just ate a crab cake whoa and she's like yeah um i just chugged champagne so i'm probably gonna burp in your ear miss you haven't seen you since mexico so everyone's like oh my god you look so nice you look so nice no you look so nice no you look so nice and then craig is driving with cory to the party cory you do not look nice what is

32:34Ben Mandelker: cory what is he even wearing oh my god cory is in the colton school of trying to serve a Luke and you're just not a Luke person. And, you know, I, you know, Corey, I thought was sort of like, I've always really couldn't, I've never been able to stand Corey, but I think like when we first met him on winter house, he was very fratty and he had like a baseball cap and he was like this Jack guy, whatever. And like, he had that like hot bro energy, but now he's trying to be like Benson Booney or whatever his hair, he's grown out his hair in this weird direction that is not flattering but he's also he's doing a blazer and he's the chest area he's filling in the negative space on his chest with um not pearl necklaces like colton but basically a different type of type of necklace it's like a series of necklaces and it's just he's just serving way too much look for basically who is what his persona is and also like what this show is it

33:28Ronnie Karam: just like silk parachute pants and he's trying he got rid of the pearl necklaces because that like harry harry styles has been off for the past year i don't know if anybody knows but like he's just making a comeback so i think when they were shooting this he was like i can't wear harry he's on break i'll go benson boone yeah with some colton in the middle with the pearls like it

33:49Ben Mandelker: wasn't pearl but like he knows like the strands of necklaces down your chest yeah he's very timu

33:54Ronnie Karam: coated so um he got so they're talking and craig's like let's get primed and ready with kissing spray it has 24 karat gold particles in the mouth spray of course like tell a girl i'm gonna put some gold in your mouth tonight better than the sores she's expecting i'm sure and so craig's like wow this tastes good i don't know where they got the gold that's edible though oh well craig here your martha stewart empire is really just yeah taking off can't wait for you to be on top

34:30Ben Mandelker: chef as a guest judge this season i know seriously person who's never heard of edible gold you can learn more about that and uh cory's like well i haven't done that since middle school i don't know what he's talking about but craig's like so i thought i'd be taking charlie to the event tonight but like i don't know what's going on like well have you even actually talked to her since mexico he's like no we acted like things were the same whereas like instead of talking every day it was

34:58Ronnie Karam: like every other day oh so he's like yeah there's been a change of energy and like it's just because of a misunderstanding like i mean we can fix that you know we can fix that but nothing's happened he's like so nothing irreversible he's like no no nothing nothing's happened and cory's like uh yeah seems i'm not even here and it seems like something has happened greg hello if somebody's talking to you every day and then suddenly stops talking to you after you act like a jackass. Yeah, something's happened. So they come in and Whitney's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wow, look at you. Who dressed you?

35:37Ronnie Karam: Corey's like, wow, Whitney, I channeled my inner you. I feel like it's a good 70s porn star look. And he's like, wow, more like too legit to quit. Like Vanilla eyes.

35:48Ben Mandelker: Sir, that's MC Hammer. Please. It's Whitney.

35:53Ronnie Karam: It's Whitney. whitney is so white he can't even get white rappers right i know

36:00Ben Mandelker: whitney's like well i'm just gonna go home now and uh listen to macklemore and the lair um so charlie is talking to patricia and she's like thank you again for inviting me to this this is awesome what are you drinking champagne she's like yeah you want to get some let's go get some who are you by the way are you a waitress talking awfully familiar to me and then sally is and Vanita arrive and they're saying hi to everyone and Molly and Wittner say hello and Patricia's Sally's talking to Patricia saying her jacket looks amazing and Sally is saying how Madison helped her get her look together on FaceTime and also relays that Madison won't be coming because of the baby.

36:41Ronnie Karam: Whatever happened to nannies am I right? Hey does that make you want to have a baby? And Sally says well I mean I'm not done with my party days Miss Patricia, but I still want my baby, you know, I mean, I don't know. Well, how about let's go in there and see who we can have one with? Hey, we need a sperm donor.

37:01Ben Mandelker: I mean, you want grandkids, right? Whitney would be a great sperm donor. Sperm donor? Unless you want, like, a punk rocker, someone who is, like, really rebelling against the system, mother.

37:14Ronnie Karam: Fortunately, it's hard for me these days to get a re-nob. so whitney i know what that means spelled backwards i'm not an idiot sorry mother um so then uh shep is bringing everyone is shocked it wasn't only shocking to us we saw this in the preview in our trailer trash and we were like what the hell is with an age-appropriate woman what in the world is happening here i was like i recognize this woman she's been on the

37:42Ben Mandelker: show before and it's no it's just because we analyzed her on our trailer trash so intensively like wow but as far as we can tell this looks like an age-appropriate date for ship i know i'm for these crazy kids yeah so her name is hannah her energy is really funny and fun i really like

38:01Ronnie Karam: her actually we don't see that much of her but i liked her so she comes in and like some crazy polka dots and um she is vanita's uh tennis instructor and austin's like wow is vanita actually good at tennis she goes yeah she's really good so don't fuck with vanita so shep's like this is hannah this is molly we've known each other for 20 years not 20 16 17 40 37 90 i don't know how old am i where am i were you in vietnam she's like yeah since college yeah of course

38:39Ben Mandelker: so she um um molly and hannah are like the same age um then leva arrives and she's wearing this like under i can't describe it it's like this purple thing that was like under the boobs and up and around or whatever and cory's like hey what's happening and craig's like i have no idea Yeah, like Charlie is actively avoiding me. And Corey's like, oh, have y 'all not talked? I'm like, what part of actively avoiding you have you don't understand, Corey?

39:07Ronnie Karam: No, she keeps running away from me. Watch, there she is. You just see her run past. Hey, Sally, did you see that? She's like, yeah, I saw it. Now I just feel like I'm getting clowned. I mean, what the hell? Craig, you just got to move forward with your life.

39:23Ben Mandelker: So here's the thing. craig craig knows i think on some level that um what's her face um charlie was turned off by craig losing his mind and craig blames sally for that so uh craig's revenge scheme is that he's going to make sally feel like shit right now he goes i just don't understand because I think we were a lot closer than anyone knew. You know, we FaceTime for like hours every night. We would talk for days every hours for days every day. Like when she'd be bored, she would just FaceTime me. When she was falling asleep, she'd FaceTime me. And Sally's like, she did.

40:08Ronnie Karam: It's like, yeah, you don't want to talk to me? Okay, fine. I won't try and work anything out with you. I'll just ruin your relationship with Sally.

40:15Ben Mandelker: Yeah, I will tell Sally that we, even though you probably told me several times, please don't let Sally know how much we talk because it would really break her heart. Here's Craig, you know, laying it all out there that we talk all the time. And also, by the way, Charlie was going to come with me and my brother and sister-in-law to France. We were going to travel together. I was going to pick her up from the airport.

40:37Ronnie Karam: What, Craig? That's so committed. How could you? I was going to pick her up from LAX. Oh my God, everybody on Bravo knows that means marriage. Craig, you're blowing my mind.

40:49Ben Mandelker: I was going to meet her in Marina Del Rey. I don't even know where that is, but I know it's far.

40:55Ronnie Karam: I am shook that you guys are as close as you're saying. Looking back, I think there were so many signs that their relationship was more serious than she was letting on. And then we see clips of them being on the beach and Craig being like, look, it's a beach. And Charlie being like, yeah. yeah it's a it's a fucking it's like the notebook it's like watching the notebook

41:18Ben Mandelker: on speed what are you guys talking about and also sally i cannot feel bad for you i'm sorry i'm just i'm so over it yeah it was it was shitty girl code you know for charlie to to to go pursue not pursue craig but like take him up on his offer but like i just don't feel i just never felt bad about it because i felt like sally also was similarly selfish when it came to vanita and I just think that like you've proven that what matters most to you in a moment is if you like a guy you're going to go after the guy even if it means your friend is going to feel some sort of way about it so like turnabout is fair play and the fact that like this has been talked about so much and you're still getting all in a tizzy about it when you're also claiming that you like love Austin I'm like I can't you can't have your cake and eat it too or as Austin would say you can't have a tough cookie and digest it as well you have you can't you can't have cake and you can't have a cake okay can't you can't crack a cake you can't crack a cake um yeah also you came

42:19Ronnie Karam: on this season planting your flag in two out of three leads yeah and that's not fair either like you don't get to just come in and call dibs on everybody i mean she's ridiculous yeah it's too

42:30Ben Mandelker: much it's too much and the reason why and oh sorry i was gonna say also that like after charlie the reason why also charlie does doesn't tell you about any of these things is because you freaked out every single time and so like at some point she's like i'm just not i'm not sharing this part with you anymore because you always have this hostile reaction and then like you know and then and wasn't it just like two episodes again where sally was like i don't want to know just don't tell me anything i'm sick of it and she gets so mad which doesn't know something yeah i think

42:59Ronnie Karam: that charlie should you know this is my that said charlie should have um definitely handled this differently she should have said listen i really didn't have interest in craig but we're hanging out a lot more i do kind of have interest in him can i have permission today you know like can i please instead she's like well i don't really even like him what are you talking about no i don't like him okay well i did well it's not a date okay well it was a date okay well it was So she is kind of handling this wrong. I think of it with someone like Sally. You have to be like, Sally, all is fair in love and war.

43:36Ronnie Karam: You lost this one. My turn. Okay? You're already all over Austin. Like, come on.

43:41Ben Mandelker: Yeah. Well, also, maybe it just shows that their friendship has some imbalances. Because the reason why she was so wishy-washy with Sally was because she was basically afraid of Sally's reaction. Like, that was the fundamental thing. is just always worried about what sally will do and what sally would say that so yes you either stand up and say sally this is the way it's going to be but she's not going to do that because you know sally's probably going to freak out on some level or like be like you know annoying so i think that maybe they just don't have a friend like their friendship is maybe not like like a good

44:17Ronnie Karam: friendship and they just don't realize it yet yeah and but the thing that still bothers me is sally is making it like oh charlie chose some guy over a friend sally you would choose a guy over any of these people yeah you did it with you know it you do it all the time so stop you did it with

44:34Ben Mandelker: vanita and whether or not you think vanitas you know um like what vanita is justified over her annoyance with craig like wherever you fall on that the point is that vanita and charl and vanita and sally were like tight friends and vanita had real negative feelings about craig and was like like this guy is my enemy like stop flirting like like it hurts me when you flirt with him and sally was like whatever so like whatever you feel about vanita the point is that sally just not not so much disregarded her friend she chose herself over her friend in that moment so i just i just have no sympathy here in this moment for the storyline where she finds out that like oh charlie and craig facetime i don't know and also like sally you should be smart enough to know that craig is a manipulative asshole and he's going to say things that intentionally get you mad

45:22Ronnie Karam: Yeah, and you're letting him do it to you again. Oh my God. It's just what he did to you. You know, when he when he when you told him that you liked him and then he turned around and told everyone, oh my God, she's crazy. This girl's like unstable. Like she's a hurricane. Like, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He's kind of doing the same thing now where it's like, oh, OK, I think I'm I'm sensing that Charlie is about to fuck me over. OK, so I'm going to take her out as I go. And Charlie is a manipulative liar. And she's been lying to everybody this whole time. You know, he's just villainizing.

45:55Ronnie Karam: He's villainizing whatever woman it doesn't work out with. That's his go-to. So, gross. And yeah, Sally, be smarter. But I mean, that's a tall order. That's faith.

46:06Ben Mandelker: And also, this is coming on the heels, quite frankly. I'm going to go back to earlier in the episode. It goes back to her being justifiably really mad at Craig for the way he treated her on that van. And she's like, so mad, so mad, so mad. and she whips everyone into a tizzy like craig is like this and like and then he gives like the most basic mail it in half apology and she's like okay it's all good now but like you've brought everyone into this you brought everyone into this drama which by the way you should have because what craig did was wrong and then like the moment he bats his eyes at you you're like so she still puts the guy and and craig over anyone else but then she wants us to feel bad for her when someone else was like, you know, sort of centering Craig in their lives.

46:49Ben Mandelker: I just like, no, I don't. I don't. I can't. And I won't.

46:52Ronnie Karam: I cannot. I will not.

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49:25Ronnie Karam: Cookie cracked. So Whitney is like, well, today we're honoring Carolina Day. and we're commemorating the battles of Sullivan's Island in 1776. The year Shep was born. Hey! When a small band of patriots defied the British Navy and defended Charleston against impossible odds. Viva la revolution and let's have some fun-o.

49:54Ben Mandelker: And Whitney does like the punk rock thing. I'm like, yes, I love Whitney's version of being punk rock is referencing a moment the revolutionary war the original punk rockers revolution war i also like the guy who introduced whitney who's like and now to say some poignant words is whitney suddler smith only poignant words what are you talking about it's starolina day meanwhile cory tries to flirt with molly again

50:19Ronnie Karam: he's like hey how are you you look hot tonight got that got that ass and the tits out he's so

50:24Ben Mandelker: fucking gross this guy why is he on here he is the worst and uh it still really bothers me like i I haven't checked on his social media lately, because who would? And so I don't know if his feelings have evolved. But it still really bothers me that he was liking lots of transphobic memes, while here he is at this party, liberally borrowing sartorially from, I would argue, the LGBTQ world of fashion. you know and like that's just it's just as so he's just such a fucker you know

51:05Ronnie Karam: yeah he's like non-binary in timu purchases only i don't know how to say that right i'm tired but lgbtq world of fashion another reason here's another reason ben is never nominated for a

51:19Ben Mandelker: glad award whatever you're just making their case ben you're making their case but you know what i'm saying he like this is the hit the look that he is using is fully referencing styles that have come from the gay community and the larger and like and not just like a trans like trans gay everything our whole umbrella and he's clearly pulling from it and i don't mind i love when actually people assimilate and whatever it's like i love the normalization of these things but he's clearly pulling from it and trying to get cred from it but like but like you know what his social

51:53Ronnie Karam: media is i get what you're saying because it kind of comes from that in a way but it comes from harry

51:58Ben Mandelker: styles but where was that well harry styles taken from it too of course well that's what i'm saying

52:03Ronnie Karam: in his mind it's not coming from that community it's coming from harry styles and he's doing it to get puse say it's not he's not thinking about you know the trans movement but i do see what you're saying because ultimately it does come from there yeah exactly it's like and i'm not saying

52:18Ben Mandelker: that like oh if you were gonna go for that look you need to somehow like you know like put on a thing like a button that says i acknowledge that this look comes from his roots and like you know whatever community i'm just saying like that the fact that he on the one hand hasn't has liked these transphobic um memes and on the other hand is perfectly happy to cherry pick you know things that have come from the world of the LGBT world of fashion. Yeah, no, I get what you're saying.

52:51Ronnie Karam: I mean, basically, he's a classless piece of trash is kind of where I'm coming from in both mental and physical, mentally and physically, okay? He's disgusting trash, and I hate that he's even on this show because they're at least pretending on this show to be classy. They're not, but they at least try to all pretend, and he doesn't even. And he just comes in like, hey, nice ass and tits, bitch. Yeah. Yeah. He's just disgusting. And Molly seems kind of grossed out by him. And he's like, what do you have to do tomorrow besides make me breakfast? She's like, yeah, I'm not making you breakfast. If you were smaller, I'd feed you to my corn snake.

53:30Ronnie Karam: So please be allowed. Yeah.

53:33Ben Mandelker: And then she like pats him. And he's like, don't pat me like that. Tongue sticks out. I'm like, oh, my God. Don't be on my TV like that. So then Patricia and Eddie and Ryan just leave. And then Molly checks in on Charlie. And she's like, hey, are you okay? You don't seem to be flirting with Austin right now. Something's off. And she's like, well, oh, sorry, you're Charlie. I got my blondes confused. Charlie, are you okay? She's like, well, I haven't spoken to Craig yet. She's like, are you going to talk to him tonight? She's like, well, I've been waiting to talk to him, but he's been preoccupied.

54:07Ben Mandelker: But now it's like one of those things where I'm like, now I'm mad. It's been so long. And like, do I have to be up and go to him and be like, can you come up and talk to me? Like, I don't want to do that. I've got to be decent.

54:15Ronnie Karam: Must be decent. She's like, yeah. I mean, it's Craig. So he's not going to come talk to you. So yeah. I mean, if you're going to do it, just, I mean, you have to do it. So she goes off to do it. And Charlie's saying hi to someone, but she interrupts. And he's like, I mean, you're so weird. Like every time I walk in a room, you're like dodging me. And she's like, yeah. Okay. So let's go talk then, I guess. so they go out and leva see sally and sally's like i'm so upset y 'all love is like what's wrong

54:46Ben Mandelker: yeah and um uh and so love is like they're like what's what's wrong and sally goes well after the conversation i just had with craig i'm just like shook what's happening what happened girlfriend well he was telling me things that i had no idea about like charlie like she wants to travel with him and they FaceTime hours a day and I'm just surprised by how deep they were.

55:10Ronnie Karam: And you didn't know that?

55:13Ben Mandelker: No, I didn't know how close until tonight.

55:16Ronnie Karam: And Molly's like, yeah, no one surprised. But Sally is like typically the hot best friend that gets all the guys so I think that's a real blow to Sally's pride. Which, ding, ding, ding. Thank you, Molly. Thank you. So, Vanita says, well, someone is your best friend. Are they going to go after the man you like yes or no no okay and if they go after the man they know you like or are they gonna hide it yes or no and rodrigo's like um she ain't your best friend girly

55:49Ben Mandelker: that time that was a dark quote so molly's like well you're realizing that you don't know her as well as you thought right she's like oh so then craig and charlie have a cheers and craig is like um hey i was excited to see you all day yeah well i haven't seen you since mexico but i feel like i haven't really talked to you about you and sally's confrontation and like how it made me feel you know

56:16Ronnie Karam: that's so funny to me charlie it's not like i'm gonna go stand up for my friend it's like oh my god you you don't understand how it made me feel i think it's very charlie it's like it happened to vanita she didn't care she's like why are you guys ruining my vacation you know but it happened right in front of her in the car and she's like well you didn't even ask me how i felt about it and he's like well he looks shocked he's like i mean but you never she goes yeah but neither did you craig and he says well okay but like you know everyone has bad nights and sally sally got into my head and she goes no it's not just sally it's like whenever you have an argument like you piss each other off all the time like i wish it didn't turn into a confrontation i mean it's

56:59Ben Mandelker: upsetting to me well of course it was awful awful to be in a van with sally what a monster and i would take it back in a fucking heartbeat but i can't but like you and i have a credible incredible relationship like we facetime every night because yeah well not every night since mexico okay but up to that it was like a month and a half of facetiming every night i would okay

57:26Ronnie Karam: I'm not denying it, Craig. I'm not denying it, okay?

57:29Ben Mandelker: I met your friends. We had a great time.

57:32Ronnie Karam: Okay, but like I'm saying before, I was seriously interested in you, and I'm saying my switch flipped in Mexico. I only see us as friends now.

57:41Ben Mandelker: Wow. I let my guard down with Charlie, and this isn't a rebound or something that I'm distracting myself with, so for it all to be erased in one bad night just sucks. Oh, you let your guard down. Oh, you let your guard down and you screamed at a woman in the van. Oh, I feel so bad for you. I actually love this. I love the fact that earlier in the season, he was like, I just am afraid to get into a relationship with Charlie. Because what if I what if I, you know, like what if I basically like don't want to be there anymore? Then I don't want to like, I don't want to get her heart. And then she's the one who dumps him.

58:15Ronnie Karam: Exactly. And you can let your guard down all you want, Craig. That's not the problem is that you've got everyone else having to put up their guards because you're fucking insane. and he's like at the end of the day you get nothing for nothing and after my breakup like i think i was worried you know i would never like someone again but i had like enough big enough crush on you that like i would have picked you over my ex and i didn't think i would have ever felt like that again i love that craig it's like his um his revenge storyline is dead so he's like well i still would have picked you over page suck it page yeah and i also don't believe this in at

58:52Ben Mandelker: at all i think this is a pure manipulation so she's like really it's like i didn't know that he's like well yeah because it was never like we never got there but like we had a lot of fun you know facetiming every night she's like well i'm not going anywhere friendship wise yeah well we're

59:14Ronnie Karam: never gonna be just friends um quote unquote page to sorbo it's like now you're just saying page

59:20Ben Mandelker: lines come on man and then he she's like well we can try we can try to just be friends like we look i i believe in our friend zone okay and i think it will work for us we will be friends

59:34Ronnie Karam: god so then we um tyler is checking in with uh shep he's like oh my god who's that girl who'd you bring here um she's cute she's cute and stuff's like yeah she's great and she was like i'm 37 i want a child and i was like i want i'm 45 i am a child wow and tyler's like tyler's like you don't want a child why are you he's like i think i do he goes no you don't and goes but like i'd be a donor a boner donor so then everyone's sitting in the foyer and sally comes up and love is like

1:00:10Ben Mandelker: sally what's going on and charlie's like hey sally come over here come on come on she's like no i'm upset with you charlie like i'm a lot upset with you you know craig told me all this stuff like about y 'all being in a relationship and i had to learn it from craig and she's like oh my god i

1:00:28Ronnie Karam: mean maybe i just didn't want anyone to know you know like come on so you're totally fair unless your best friend liked him before you know you can't have the friendship anymore you know

1:00:39Ben Mandelker: well charlie was like well if i ever felt like sally like seriously was interested in craig i never would have gone on the oyster date in the first place i mean i went on that date because i believe she was 1000 okay with it like with how good friends to be are i thought if she wasn't okay with it she would have told me that and we see a flashback of sally being like well i'm dumb i'm over greg and if you want to go on a date with him you can do it because i'm so over him which by the way is not what someone says when they're over someone like i was like clearly sally has feelings but like i know yeah that was the funny thing of the clip she's like i thought

1:01:13Ronnie Karam: But Sally was totally okay with it. So I was like, fine, if you want to date that monster and hurt my feelings and ruin my life. She's like, okay, I got an okay. But she can't get away with it because Leva is there. And Leva is the ultimate on this show of like, hi, I'm Leva. I'm here once a year and it's to judge you. So you can't really do that to your friend because your friend like really liked him. I'm like, okay, Leva, but you haven't seen Sally in action all season long either. Because I feel like your lecture would extend.

1:01:41Ben Mandelker: Yeah. And Leva's like, is there something you're not saying, Sally? And Sally's like, well, the text I sent you before you and Craig's date. You know, I just can't do this. And so there was a text that Sally sent right before the date, which, by the way, by the way, sending a text right before the date. I don't know. I think that's all. I don't know. I just, nothing has sat right with me with Sally all season long. So Sally says in her text, she texted her and the text said, well, I feel sad. Ugh, I don't want to have feelings for Craig. So it's like a passive aggressive way to be like, I still like Craig.

1:02:20Ben Mandelker: It's almost like a test. Will you cancel the date? Will you do this? But you're not actually saying, you know what? I really do like Craig and I don't think I was being honest with my feelings. And it makes me really uncomfortable that you're going out with him because he really, he really hurt me. And I feel like you shouldn't do this. I feel like a good girlfriend wouldn't do this. But instead, she's just sort of dangling this notion. She wants Charlie to infer all this. And right before the date, I just feel like it's a manipulation, and I don't like it.

1:02:46Ronnie Karam: You know, I have to stick up for Sally here because I think she's been pretty clear this whole time. Like, I don't want you dating Craig. I like Craig. And she even said at the beginning of the season, if you like Craig, that's fine. But you need to tell me right now because I like Craig. And it looks like you'd like Craig. And Charlie's like, no, I don't like Craig. and so Sally is pursuing things with Craig and hanging out with Craig and this girl in a hot tub and she keeps telling her are you sure you don't like Craig because it seems like you like Craig and she's like nope nope not into Craig at all and then it ends up that she that Craig she's the one that Craig liked in the hot tub the whole time and then she starts dating him and I'm sure that Sally does feel stupid like here I am I'm hanging out with my friend and Craig thinking that I'm flirting with Craig and meanwhile she was flirting with Craig and getting him behind him like I see that she would feel that way i don't think that she's completely i don't think that she's completely being manipulated i think she was pretty upfront with her feelings on it it's just i just feel like she doesn't have the right to like call dibs on every guy that's what bugs me i just wish charlie handled it better and said right at the beginning i don't know if i like craig he's cute we flirted at the beach a little bit but mate i'd like the opportunity to flirt

1:03:56Ben Mandelker: with him too like why do you get him yeah i mean i also i see why sally feels the way she feels um i just i think that there i think charlie is allowed to say i'm not interested in craig and then they hang out a few times and then she's like you know maybe i am interested in craig and she's like you know and sally did kind of like it wasn't just like hey are you interested in craig she basically was like if you're interested in craig like you better tell me like she was sort of like threatening her it wasn't was not like a friendly like girl talk you know circle of trust it was it was kind of like a um like a false option like if you like you have to tell me because it was like if you like craig you have to tell me because if you'd like him our friendship is over that's kind of what the implication was and um i just think like i i believe that sally has a right to feel hurt um i feel like she has not had really much perspective on this given her like that the same thing happened with her and vanita and on top of that i just think that her sending that text off right before the date is a manipulation like she may be her and she may be her way of saying like oh i wish you had been like i i actually have to be honest with you i do like craig and this hurts but she didn't do that and i think she was i don't know like i just it all rubs me the wrong way yeah i get it i mean sally in general rubs me

1:05:14Ronnie Karam: the wrong way. I liked her. But you know what? I can't help but like Sally because, I mean, she's just a dingbat, you know? I don't think she has any bad intentions. I just think she's kind of a dingbat. And, you know, she just likes all these guys. I don't dislike her. I just think she's wrong a lot of the time. I guess I expect more from Charlie because Charlie seems a lot smarter. And like seeing how Charlie deals with Craig in this episode, I really liked how she dealt with Craig. I thought it was very straightforward. I don't know. It seems like she's grown a lot over the course. Anyway, I would expect more from Charlie to just be like, Sally, here's the deal.

1:05:56Ronnie Karam: Instead of letting Sally go so over the top, because now Sally's being ridiculous, and now she's basically got Leva against Charlie, and now she's got Vanita against Charlie. Now she's got all the girls against Charlie, and that's not going to do well for Charlie to remain on the show. So I don't know. I wish Charlie, I wish everybody handled it better. And you know, here we are again, arguing over these people when it's Craig. It is Craig.

1:06:20Ben Mandelker: I know. Starting all of this. Last season, I really liked Sally. This season, I found Sally to be really annoying. But like Southern Charm is, I think, probably the best example of like a reset show. Because every time there's a new season, I find that my alliances change around. the past two seasons i've been actually very complimentary towards austin and um i've been like especially especially this season i've been very anti-craig but in the previous seasons i've been very pro-craig i mean watch it happen next year where suddenly i'm pro-craig and anti-austin again like i feel like i'm always changing sides it's not you it's them it's what they're doing

1:07:00Ronnie Karam: to us they manipulate us you know we talk about we can see them manipulating everybody else but But when it comes to us, we feel like, oh, we're special. We're the special one. But, you know, we are. Like, Austin's come in in the past. And Shep, too. Austin's come in with his, like, I'm just a good guy. I've got a girlfriend. Look, I'm committed to somebody. But she's just never here. She's somebody you guys never see. And I have cats now. And so he tricks us. And Shep doesn't date anybody. So there's nobody that he's treating like shit on camera. And he's just like, but I just want everybody to have ayahuasca and be friends.

1:07:32Ronnie Karam: Because, you know, we're easily tricked. Craig is the one that's, you know, getting the heat because we're watching him actively treat people like shit. Next season, it'll be Shepard or Austin, you know.

1:07:45Ben Mandelker: I would like to announce that, by the way, that Corey Kiefer has Watcher Crappens and me and I don't know you as well blocked. So, oh, that's funny. We don't even post about Corey. That's probably because we complain about him on our show. You're like, I don't even post about him. You know, we're on a podcast, right? yeah but why would he listen to the podcast because because we've called out his transphobic likes before and he probably doesn't like that and so i actually went to his instagram to see if he is actually involved because i actually if he has like if he is not doing that anymore if he has evolved i don't want to be sitting here on this podcast and you know complaining about you know what he likes and doesn't like if like that's actually not a reflection of his current beliefs but now i can't know so there we go how could you watch this episode and think for a second

1:08:38Ronnie Karam: cory keifer has changed anything cory queifer what a fuck r.i.p um r.i.p our burgeoning friendship with cory keifer just kidding we never had one gross he's so gross you're such a slime ball keep me blocked loser yeah so then um uh sally's like yeah you know it's uh then charlie's like, okay, Sally, you know, I know, I know. She goes, and ever since, like, I've had resentment towards you, you know, because you did that, and it's all coming out right now. She goes, okay, you know what, you're right. It wasn't cool for me to send you those texts, and then you had to go, you know, she's like, it wasn't really cool.

1:09:16Ronnie Karam: You know, I knew you liked him. I was completely selfish in my decision. I knew deep down, you know, how you were feeling, and instead, I chose to entertain a guy that you thought that you might actually be interested in, and I'm actually incredibly sorry and i know there's no excuse but like i'm really sorry and i don't know where you go okay great apology right that's like everything and you want you want an apology but it came after you dumped craig so it makes it like less potent but it was still a good apology i thought it was

1:09:45Ben Mandelker: a good apology i thought it was like very much like she fell on her sword and everything and then they do the thing of like i love you so much i love you i love you and they wipe each other's tears uh and but you know there's gonna be lingering resentments and it's gonna come out at the reunion so then in the party craig and austin decide to have a chat so austin's like well craig looks like you have your hands full unlike me i mean i serve out my hands full of cats cat dance so craig's like yeah charlie told me on the porch that she just like wants to be friends so it's like a bummer because i told her we were never going to be just friends like it's not a thing like i'm moving on with my life but then sally was really upset that she's like you know really like she's like she she's just like not she didn't like know about like me and charlie's relationship but sally made it so difficult for us to have a chance and i constantly

1:10:33Ronnie Karam: deal with people meddling in my business it just gets to be a lot which you just did i mean you just ruined a friendship or tried to ruin a friendship because you didn't get your way such a little bitch craig it's like seriously so awesome like craig and he goes what and he He goes, you say mean and nasty things to everyone who rubbed you the wrong way. Like, shit, you can't take this shit back, Craig. And he's like, well, do I get angry? Yes. And I work on that with my Alexa. And I hate being reactive. But, like, it's in response to people doing really fucked up shit to me.

1:11:07Ben Mandelker: Yeah. He's only like that because other people make him that way. I love you so much, but you make me so mad.

1:11:14Ronnie Karam: Look what you made me do. Yeah. Guess who else says that? every abusive asshole in the world, Craig.

1:11:22Ben Mandelker: Oh, oh, I went with Taylor Swift. Ooh, look what you made me do. Austin is like, Charlie dish him because of his behavior in Mexico, not because of Sally. Once again, everyone else's fault and no accountability. How many people can you scream at? And then before you actually are like, I should do some work about this. But I will put in the work to make myself better at some point once I get up to a pro plan with ChatGPT.

1:11:48Ronnie Karam: But you're not, though. But I work on myself every day. I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Craig, you aren't able to admit any fault. No, I'm not. I said I'm always wrong when I'm reactive. Okay, do you have, like, a serious fucking anger problem? Okay, you do. Do you accept that or do you not? He's like, Austin, this isn't a productive conversation. Oh, my God.

1:12:10Ben Mandelker: You'll never see another person's fucking point of view. No, I will see everyone's point of view. No, you won't, Craig. You see your point of view only. Like, we don't got to do this, okay? We really don't have to do this anymore, Craig.

1:12:23Ronnie Karam: But I do see everyone's point of view, because everyone's point of view is the reason that I get reactive. Everyone's point of view is the problem. That's what I'm saying. This is cyclical. I don't even ride a bike. You don't take accountability. But I just admitted not to riding a bike. God damn it, Craig. Stop trying to make me ride a bike. It's dangerous. I hate helmets. My hair is important.

1:12:45Ben Mandelker: Whatever, man. You never fucking listen to anybody. Fuck off, Craig. dude you lost your loss so it's obvious i'm done i am leaving so craig just leaves so austin's now with whitney and he's like only craig can make it seem like he's not the prick when he's like well um are you guys back to square one much like the british were after we defeated them at sullivan's island punk rock punk rock want to talk about 1776 motherfucker punk

1:13:18Ronnie Karam: No, we're going square zero. He has no business in my life. So I am leaving too. I'm also leaving. So after we've seen Craig take the sad walk past the Iron Gates, now Austin's going to do it. And Shep's like, where do you want to go? Where should we go? It's like, I don't know. Any way away from here. So they decide they're going to grab a drink. And Whitney's going to go get his date. And now Sally's with Molly. And Sally's like, I just texted Austin. Is he okay? Did Charlie screw him over too?

1:13:49Ben Mandelker: So she goes outside and Austin's like about to leave. He's at the wrought iron gate fence, I should say. Sally's like, Austin, can you come here? And he's like, okay, the important is about cats. Now, how was your conversation with Craig? Well, I feel good about not holding any more space for Craig in my life. Well, good for you. Yeah, by the way, you looked really great tonight. By the way, my friend Carl said I should say that. You look great, by the way.

1:14:13Ronnie Karam: And she's standing on the top of the steps, and he's down the steps, holding onto the wrought iron fence. This is their big romantic movie scene where she's like, Osden! I hate Craig! She's like, I get it! I hate Craig, too! Yo, fuck Craig! Osden! Sally! Osden! What do you want, Sally? Osden! Sally, Jesus Christ, just say what you want! She's like, can you come here? I'm sorry for actually caring about you and liking you And like Well I appreciate that and I like you too I think you're wonderful But I'm not in the headspace to do something with somebody Like I understand getting out of a relationship And not being emotionally available But like would you be interested in me If you were in the headspace I'm not asking you for you to be in the headspace

1:15:07Ben Mandelker: Listen Austin I'm not asking for headspace just some head what do you say well sally i'll give you a head in space austin i'll hold space for your head um but so sally who was just crying about craig i mean i know she was crying because she felt betrayed by um charlie but i think part of that was she was crying because it was like a real deal relationship and i think she felt a certain sort of way about that so she was just crying about craig on on a certain level and now she's here like going back to austin it's like stay austin stay and so then she's like would you like me if you could like me which is such a crazy question such a desperate question to ask someone and she's he's like uh i don't know i can't answer that but i call bullshit because you know it's reciprocated austin i'll do whatever i gotta do i know you like me say you like me say you'll be mine

1:16:05Ronnie Karam: Oh, God, Sally, get some self-respect. He's like, listen, I like you, but I'm not in a place to like, he's basically saying you're going to get nothing from me. She's like, oh, that's so real. Can I come with you? I'll run away with you. I'll do anything. He's like, well, there's a car here, and I'm going to meet up with Whitney and Shep. So are you coming with me or not? She's like, yeah, I'm coming. I was like, oh, my God. This is like your big romantic ending for the season. And Sally is just like, yes, settling. I'm settling for being someone's fuck toy. I can't wait.

1:16:40Ben Mandelker: I can finally be the fourth wheel in this group of men.

1:16:45Ronnie Karam: Yep. So she goes off. And then we see Sally gets the last scene of the evening. We see Sally packing up her chickens into her mom's car. And it says Sally's chicken era has ended. But has her Austin era begun since Carolina Day? they've been hanging out and making out and then we see clips of them on instagram like when you're single and you can still drink and then they're drinking but like being all over

1:17:11Ben Mandelker: each other yeah oh wow do they have a relationship but more importantly does anyone in america care

1:17:19Ronnie Karam: there it is there it is um the reunion looks really good i particularly liked where craig's like um you broke my heart you strung me along and charlie's like we went on two dates yeah

1:17:38Ben Mandelker: i like that part so it looks like they're all gonna come for craig so this is an anti-craig reunion and we'll just see how it goes um but anyway thank you all for being here and we will have some southern hospitality coming up to you very soon thanks everybody we'll talk to you later

1:17:55Ronnie Karam: Bye

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