#3279 Southern Charm S11E17 Reunion 2 Part One: No Craig to Stand On

0:28Ben Mandelker: We'll see you next time. You guys, I have some legendary news for you. 20 years after its debut, the HBO original comedy series The Comeback is finally back. I've always loved how the show skewers Hollywood, and seeing Lisa Kudrow return as the iconic Valerie Cherish is exactly what we need right now.

0:49Ronnie Karam: This season picks up over a decade later. Valerie is finally starring in a new show, but here's the twist. It's being written by AI. She's still navigating the chaos in the industry and chasing those big dreams with that same Valerie Cherish energy we adore.

1:03Ben Mandelker: If you're watching this season, and you really should be, by the way, you've got to check out the official Comeback podcast. Host Evan Ross Katz is joined by Lisa Kudrow and Michael Patrick King to unpack every episode to dive into the show's origins and why Valerie is still such a relatable, resilient character after two decades.

1:18Ronnie Karam: You'll also hear from cast members like Laura Silverman and Ella Stiller, plus comedy powerhouses like Abby Jacobson and John Early. For anyone who loves a behind-the-scenes look at how iconic TV is made, this is a must-listen.

1:31Ben Mandelker: Stream the HBO original series The Comeback on HBO Max Sundays at 10.30pm and watch The Comeback podcast on HBO Max or listen wherever you get your podcasts.

1:56Ben Mandelker: Who cares what happens when there's so much that crappens?

2:25Ronnie Karam: ever recap of a show we both love called survivor we're gonna do last night's episode um it'll come out early next week just because we were talking about it so much before we started recording i was like um we should not be having conversations that aren't recorded so please let's just do a bonus and so we're gonna do a bonus let's do it man yeah we're gonna do we're gonna do a bonus

2:50Ben Mandelker: episode of Survivor. And it's going to be a proper recap. It's not going to be a chatty overview. Although, I'm not saying it won't be a chatty overview in the future, but we're doing the proper recap of Survivor.

3:05Ronnie Karam: Yeah, not a huge commitment.

3:07Ben Mandelker: You know, just

3:07Ronnie Karam: wading in. But if you guys want that, that'll be a bonus. So, videos, bonus episodes, ad-free listening. There's a free newsletter and Discord server, all that good stuff. Go over to patreon.com slash watch what Crap owns. And don't you love a short opening? I know I do. Today, it is Southern. What are you trying to say?

3:29Ben Mandelker: What are you trying to say?

3:30Ronnie Karam: That we have less. I'm not. That was not a personal thing. That was a we have less to discuss today. We have less to plug today.

3:37Ben Mandelker: It's amazing.

3:38Ronnie Karam: It's not going to tap on you, my little Ben.

3:39Ben Mandelker: No, it's okay. I'm wordy anyway. It's fine. It's my life story. My life story. I know it wasn't, but I'm just saying it's my life story. So I was making a joke about that because people make fun of me being long winded.

3:50Ronnie Karam: They do. Who? Oh, said it. I'll tell them off in short form.

3:56Ben Mandelker: I'm gonna tell them off in abstract E. Cummings form.

4:01Ronnie Karam: Today is Southern charm reunion part two, which means the end of the season. Wow. What a bang. What a bang guy.

4:11Ben Mandelker: I have to say, I'm, I don't want to start on a, on a negative note, but of course I will. like i feel like this season of southern charm probably could have ended with the season finale i found both of these reunion episodes to be really uninteresting was that just me

4:28Ronnie Karam: i did not know i actually and i'm not just being argumentative i did find them fascinating because it's like a study in human nature these shows i mean really just watching craig what a fascinating lose i mean just just everything about it he actually believes what's coming out of his mouth is crazy does sally i mean you just had a man slut shaming you saying the meanest things about you and completely disrespecting you on national television and what's your response i want to marry him i want to have his babies he'd be a good daddy what the fuck is wrong with you Are you that desperate to be on television, Sally?

5:07Ronnie Karam: Oh, my God. The way I was yelling at my TV. Austin, what a monster. And gets away with it. Like, to me, it's fascinating just watching these animals. I look at it like that.

5:21Ben Mandelker: Cat dad.

5:22Ronnie Karam: Cat dad. I wore my cat dad's shirt today.

5:25Ben Mandelker: Yeah, you are. Yeah. Upside down cats.

5:28Ronnie Karam: Terrified cats. Just what Austin's cats are probably like. What the fuck? Where am I?

5:35Ben Mandelker: the cats are very confused I think for me it's just that there's some really good stuff on Bravo right now and it feels like we I don't know like I just there's just other things that I'm excited more excited to talk about and sort of have to like pump the brakes and sit here and talk and listen to like these people just like I don't know flesh it out or I don't know hash it out. I don't know. It's just, it's not doing it for me. However, I am enthused that the Valley is coming back next week. And I feel like that's not being promoted at all. I'm not seeing any promotion for the fact that the Valley starts a week from last night.

6:16Ben Mandelker: So I'm just excited for a new batch of straight people to come in and have their mess.

6:21Ronnie Karam: New batch of messy straight people. I am enjoying the two, two shows right now. We're seeing the lead characters kind of get called on their bullshit that we've seen for years we've seen it for years with these people craig on this show it's nice to get to watch him get his feet held to the fire and people not back down and we're starting to see glimpses of it on real housewives of beverly hills uh so check that out kyle people are starting to get sick of kyle shit too and they're seeing all of her games and i'm loving it i just feel like it's festivus i'm like oh my god it's like a it's like a holiday called I Told You So.

7:00Ronnie Karam: It's the one I will celebrate the most. I don't know. I'm enjoying it. As for the season, not the best season. But you know what? I'm just going to stay positive because it's a Thursday. Who doesn't love Thursdays? Whoa! When you're a cat dad. Let's get on with it. Season 11, episode 17, Reunion Part 2. Craig has just left the stage going, I hate this. I'm not doing this anymore. I don't even want to come back. And then the producers come in and he goes, you guys have villainized vulnerability, unfortunately. So I'm not going to be vulnerable with you guys anymore. Vulnerability is not a gift.

7:37Ronnie Karam: And you villainized vulnerability. You have taken vulnerability by the hair and bashed it into a rock and tried to drag it into your cave. Vulnerability is not something that you could just abuse. You fucking faker.

7:50Ben Mandelker: empaths well and that it's also crazy that first of all he has not been vulnerable at all this entire season i guess maybe he's alluding to the fact that he said he had some sort of substance or alcohol problem uh last season maybe that's what he's trying to say here but like for him to say you've villainized vulnerability while he's the one screaming at people while drunk on tv is pretty ludicrous and if anything the people who are being vulnerable are the people who are telling him, we are scared of you. And I'm scared to tell this to you because I'm inherently scared of you, but I have to tell it to you.

8:26Ben Mandelker: If anything, that's a bit more vulnerable than you sitting there and being told that you're scary. So sorry, that doesn't work for me.

8:35Ronnie Karam: Yeah. So then we go to Rod, Rego, and Sally in their dressing room. And they're talking about what kind of meat Sally's eating. It's fascinating. Is it gyro meat or is it steak? no one really knows and sally goes okay well not not deal not to eat my ass austin

8:55Ben Mandelker: gyro meat in the booty and then uh

9:06Ben Mandelker: so um so madison the Greek face or Greek you who it's not Jaro it's hero so Madison facetimes her baby and Brett which is as boring as it sounds and then everyone goes back to the stage and Craig's like this sucks God oh hey what's up guys and then Andy's like hey how are you doing Greg's like I just I did so well and then I just fucking exploded I was like and he's like what it's like not freaking out at Austin I was doing so well and this is how I mean Craig is basically telling on himself right now because he says this a number of times over the course of this episode I was doing so well and then I had one mess up I was doing so well to me that reads as I was doing so well as at presenting a version of myself for America and um you're basically admitting that you're a faker yeah and I'd love that he keeps saying

10:05Ronnie Karam: like oh my god i haven't had a i haven't had any kind of a fit in like two years and they just all laugh in his face even andy's just like seriously come on i barely watch this show i watch this show on three times speed while i'm doing laundry okay like and i know that you freaked out way more than that so welcome back okay uh welcome back to the southern charm season 11 reunion i'm your host andy cohen i have children okay this season vanita found herself at war with craig it's a vanita segment everybody vanita a lot to unpack okay but i want to catch up with you personally so what about fucking carl are you fucking carl you talked about a romance with carl and she tries to pull what i think is a sierra and says uh well i think carl put a dead uh she said well carl uh put a dent in that when he did a people interview saying that this was an issue uh that long distance was an issue and he told them and not me from what i've read i mean i think from what carl said on a podcast he went on one date with vanita so i'm confused why everybody keeps asking them about this relationship if they went on one date it's confusing they ask them about it

11:16Ben Mandelker: all the time what's going on shockingly this is not a relationship that i have monitored closely but yeah you know the thing that kind of drives me nuts about Vanita is that she when she answers things in a way often trying to be kind of coy or I think she's trying to be kind of like witty or I don't know clever but it's like just say it I just want her to say it so she can't even say oh yeah I'm not seeing him I mean she does say it here she says I think Carl put a deadhead in it because, you know, he's because when she says people, when he did a people interview saying that that this was an issue and he told them and not me.

12:02Ben Mandelker: And I was like, what do you mean? This was an issue. What are you talking about? Is it that's being on Southern Southern Southern Charm and Summer House? I just wish you just say sometimes she just she speaks so elliptically. And the irony is that I'm not even arranging my own words properly in describing it. But like, there are a lot of times where like, Andy will say, what's going on with you and Sally? And she'll be like, well, I think Sally can answer that. I think that I'm like, just say, just say she was a fucking bitch or Carl was a pussy or I liked Carl. But then he spent more time talking to people magazine than me.

12:38Ronnie Karam: Like just save or I'm on one date with Carl and it was never that big of a deal. Yeah. I feel I feel like she falls in and she did it with JT a lot where it was like she's insinuating that. there's something more than there is. And so you leave that thinking, oh, they were dating. You leave this answer thinking Vanita was dating Carl and then Carl basically ghosted her and told people a magazine without telling her. When he's saying they went on one date. So she's making it sound like we were dating. Her answer is kind of insinuating we were dating, right? And she does that a lot. She does do that a lot.

13:15Ronnie Karam: And I think Vanita gets a lot of hate from the audience And probably a lot of it is really problematic and racist, frankly, because she gets so much backlash from the audience that I really don't think she deserves. I mean, I didn't agree with a lot of her coming for Craig in an interview and then acting like she was surprised that Craig was mad. You know, there's things like that. But at the same time, the backlash from the audience is so disproportionate to anything that she's done that I hesitate to really even say anything because I like that. And I like root for her on the show. And I think it must be really hard for her to be the only black cast member on a show in the South with these fucking people.

13:55Ronnie Karam: And they haven't made it easy. But I think she also hasn't made it easy on herself sometimes. And it's just answers like this. And I'm like, Vanita. Yeah, exactly. And so I totally agree.

14:05Ben Mandelker: I totally agree that the hate that she gets is totally disproportionate compared to the things that Craig does, for example. um but yeah there are times when i i watch her on the reunion and i'm like oh just answer the question i know you're trying to be cute right now trying to be coy trying to maybe even have like a moment that sort of like lands is like light shade but it's just like just you're making me have to read between the lines too much i'm sick of reading between the lines give me all the

14:31Ronnie Karam: lines give me all the texts you know so this is bravo we don't want to read it's real tv just Yeah, just to say exactly what you mean, okay?

14:41Ben Mandelker: We are Kyle Richards. We are not Sunstrak. We are not reading, okay?

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17:39Ronnie Karam: So he asked about her mom. And he's like, so it was great to see your mom on the show. How is she? And Sally's like, that's my girl. And she goes, well, yeah. Well, she goes, wait, was that shade? Was that shade, Vanita? And she goes, well, I said, well, because you said that's my girl. And I know why you said that. She goes, yeah, because she had my back. What? Say it, man.

18:00Ben Mandelker: This is a perfect example. And I know why you said that. It's like, can you just say it, Vanita? Because then Sally's like, yeah, she had my back. She goes, well, she didn't know the full story. So, of course. And Sally goes, what's the full story then? She goes, anyway. I'm like, this is the exact sort of interaction that Vanita does that drives me nuts. Because I am largely on Vanita's side with almost all these issues. But I see her defending herself so poorly and explaining herself so poorly. and just not stating the thing that's on her mind during these reunions year after year. And I'm just sort of like annoyed with it.

18:36Ben Mandelker: I guess I'm a real salty, salty podcaster today, aren't I? I didn't have coffee yet. Can you tell?

18:43Ronnie Karam: Oh, really? That's not like you. What's happening?

18:46Ben Mandelker: I have my annual physical later today. And if I have the coffee, I feel like my blood pressure is going to read as higher than it should be. So I'm trying to be like, you know, I'm like, what's something that I could do to keep my blood pressure down today? I know. I'll rant about Southern Charm and the way Vanita answers things.

19:04Ronnie Karam: I'll yell at the people on Southern Charm. So, yeah, she's being evasive, kind of. She's like, well, I know you. But she had my back. Well, she didn't know the full story. Well, what is the full story anyway? Well, but then why don't we get into it? She just won't answer. So Madison goes, well, we're on our way to where? Where are we on our way to? And Andy's like, yeah, we'll get to that later. So, Vanita, you were interviewed on several podcasts and asked about Craig's breakup. So we get to the Craig versus Vanita thing. We see a Vial Files clip, Vial Files, however. And she's asked if she thinks Craig should clear up page cheating.

19:44Ronnie Karam: And Vanita says, yeah, I think you should speak your truth and let it be known the same way you're speaking your truth about everything else. And Andy's like, man, you must have realized that might upset him. And she's like, yeah, but why didn't he just say, I didn't like what you're doing when I hurt his feelings, then letting me continue to go from podcast to podcast? Because I was like, you know, I was speaking my truth. And if he corrected me and said, listen, I know you're doing this podcast, but I don't like what you're saying, then we could have had a conversation. But that never happened.

20:13Ronnie Karam: Okay. But Vanita, you're also the one who came on the beginning of the season and refused to speak to Craig and refused to be anywhere that Craig was. you know, so you weren't really doing that either when you had a problem. So I don't know.

20:26Ben Mandelker: I've, I've always been a little bit on vanilla side with this one, because I do think that she is allowed to say, like if the question, if the situation was that there's rumors that page cheated on Craig and page didn't cheat on Craig and he could have gone out there and stopped those rumors and he didn't. And she's saying, and she basically is going onto the vile files and saying, Hey, like, I think that he should speak about that because it's like, he's only speaking about his truth but he's not speaking about all the truth of the situation i think he should do that first of all i don't think that's the biggest crime against humanity

20:56Ronnie Karam: no and second of all her opinion if she's especially if you're on a podcast they're

21:02Ben Mandelker: asking for your opinion but it is kind of funny that she's like well i wouldn't have kept on saying just you know saying this stuff if if you just told me that you're upset by it which is kind of funny because it's like you knew you'd be upset by it right like that is sort of like a there's a little bit of a bullshitty response on her end, but I kind of was like laughing at it because that's the sort of thing that Craig would do to someone else. If you just, I don't know what it says.

21:27Ronnie Karam: So I'm like,

21:28Ben Mandelker: Oh, as I turn about spare play, I'm okay with it.

21:31Ronnie Karam: And I agree with you. Like what she actually said, wasn't that bad. The way they've been building it, building it up on the show. You would think that she was like, fuck Greg. He has a tiny dick. He's a fucking compulsive liar. But she didn't. I thought what she said was pretty fair. Um, but I also think it's fair if you heard that and you're like, well, she's supposed to be on my cast and we're supposed to be friends and she's basically not taking my side in this breakup so fuck her i would get that too it's just all bad communication like he won't go to vanita and say hey vanita you hurt me by saying this but she won't go to him and say well you're hurting me with this and then it just becomes complete non-communication and that's just not very fun on a reality show at some point you have to have it out that's the whole point

22:11Ben Mandelker: you do and and that but the thing is this and she says this in about like five seconds we've watched for several years how the cast really barely acknowledges vanita she's there she's friends with some of the girls but like she's just she's not in the mix you know they like they we've always noticed this we've always observed this and now all of a sudden craig demands utter loyalty from her it just is like you you sort of it's not that like it's not that people ignore her. It's never as blatant as ignoring her. But you can just see the outreach that someone like Sally or even Molly receives from like a Craig or a Shep or an Austin.

22:55Ben Mandelker: Or actually, I think Austin actually has a little more of a relationship with Vanita. But you see the outreach towards some of the other cast members and then you see it versus Vanita. And then they're like, oh, well, you have to because you're on Southern Charm, you have to be part of this this war against summer house and we have to rally the troops and you have to have blind loyalty to our cast and it's kind of like does she really have to have blind loyalty to you craig i don't think she really does i mean no this is what you get this is what you get you don't

23:24Ronnie Karam: have to have blind loyalty but for a reality show you have to have the communication about you have

23:28Ben Mandelker: to have the argument no yeah i'm not saying for you i'm just i'm i'm i'm just complaining to craig

23:32Ronnie Karam: again invisible craig in my mind no but i think you're right and i think some of the stuff is uh Some of the stuff with Vanita and the cast, really, if you're a woman and you're on this cast and they're not fucking you or they haven't fucked you in the past, they don't have any room for you. That's the only reason the women are here. They're props. So you had Cameron back in the day who was kind of the voice of reason and no one had had sex with her. And then they had what's her buns take that role. Leva kind of take that role for a while. and then the only one i think ever that's had that role besides them besides patricia of course is um vanita i think that's really the only one and i think they're like what use do we have here if we don't see you as a sexual object or like someone you know like that was a object of our ire like madison will always have a role because she can take on the kind of cameron role but she also has the the resume of having been with austin or whatever and it's gross to say but it's a gross

24:38Ben Mandelker: show so yeah it's just a long way of saying that i think expectations put on vanita that she has to blindly have craig's back are really not totally fair so no they're completely unfair and i wish

24:53Ronnie Karam: she is a vanita person like as a vanita fan i wish she would have said i have the right to my opinion I thought you acted like a fucking baby in that breakup. And then you tried to make this poor girl look terrible, you know, on your show when she was trying to save your feelings by not talking about the breakup and making you look like an absolute wuss. And the least you could have done was say that she wasn't cheating on you, Craig. That was bullshit what you did. But she doesn't. She's just like, well, I don't want to talk about it. And I don't want to. And so, like, it's like I'm in your corner, but I need a better fighter.

25:25Ronnie Karam: I need you to come home. You know, it's three or four at this point. Come on.

25:31Ben Mandelker: So Andy's like, did you think about reaching out to Paige? Like, what about her? I'm sorry. Did you think about, yeah. Did you think about reading out to Paige? What about her comments annoyed you? Or I'm sorry, Craig, did you think about reaching out to Vanita? I'm all turned around from this conversation. So Craig is like, yeah, Vanita's just repeating what she read on Reddit. And Vanita's like, I don't read Reddit. And Craig's like, she didn't know Paige. She didn't have a relationship with her. Like Paige and I were inseparable and never spent a day really apart. And so when she went on that podcast.

26:03Ronnie Karam: Stop, stop, stop, stop. I'm sorry, Craig. I'm sorry to interrupt your fucking fountain of bullshit. What do you mean you never spent a day apart? You were a long distance relationship. You were always apart.

26:14Ben Mandelker: You literally lived in different cities.

26:18Ronnie Karam: You literally spent your entire relationship apart. Okay, continue, Craig. Continue.

26:22Ben Mandelker: You know, the public was accusing me of dragging the breakup out, which actually I was the only one not speaking about it. I'm like, there's a video of you like in your blue sweater sitting on a seat talking about it. And I still haven't talked about it. And I just thought it was like a little bandwagon, like getting caught up and like, let's capitalize on this. Like, you know, public breakup. I'm like, Craig, you literally have spoken about it many times. What are you talking about? And yeah, it probably was a little bandwagon. But she was on a podcast and they asked her about it. but they asked her about her cast made and she answered honestly.

26:55Ben Mandelker: And I just think like, yeah, I understand. Honestly, I understand why Craig is annoyed at someone that he knows. And he probably feels like should be loyal to him regardless. But also like, this is too much. Like he literally just was like, I'm not friends with her ever. He had a tantrum too. And it's, people have done far worse to him that he still remains friends with.

27:13Ronnie Karam: And saying you capitalized off of it when she's just asked a question about the biggest thing to happen on the show that season. That's crazy. I mean,

27:21Ben Mandelker: give me a break so anyone capitalized off that it was craig yeah and it was the vile files like

27:28Ronnie Karam: do you make money for he's just whatever craig so he's like well i don't know why she says why do i need to capitalize off you and he says i don't know why you did it vanita because you didn't know page and you got your information off reddit and she's like well i don't read reddit and you and i are on the same show and he goes oh so you really thought she goes i don't go on social media when the show's airing i don't read comments i don't read reddit so i don't do any of that he's like so you honestly believe that i was enjoying my breakup two months out of it

27:56Ben Mandelker: she goes well i think you were talking about it more than others okay so again i don't agree with the things that you said and i think that's fair to say all right madison what's your point of view on this looks like you're trying to yell beta yes beta two beta's fighting i definitely don't think that greg was enjoying it and i think that this whole life just kind of blew up right in front of

28:16Ronnie Karam: him oh lord what was the argument that he said that she said that craig was enjoying it did she say that in that clip maybe it was an i don't think so i mean the other thing is i don't know

28:26Ben Mandelker: what else was said on that interview it could have been more than just a clip that they aired so andy's like well vanita we got a lot of posts from viewers wondering why you weren't more loyal on craig's side of things cindy from bar shop said didn't craig jump in the pool last season to rescue her aren't you indebted for the rest of your life to craig who is the person who pulled you out of a small pool amongst 60 other people who were there and she's like well that's nice

28:54Ronnie Karam: and dandy but i texted craig multiple times after that and i thanked him for weeks on end but i'm not going to sit here and allow you to act like you want to be my friend when we're sitting in this group because you don't reach out to me uh and please let me talk craig because he starts interrupting it's like could you do this to everyone and you speak and you speak in the last time and you know it's you speak well past the time anyone else is given he's like you burnt the bridge and then you asked why i don't visit well i can't get over there because there's no bridge who's gonna save me if i drown and fall off a cliff with no bridge damn it where's the bridge where's the bridge she's like i burnt the bridge last year so but where were the years prior to that you weren't my friend prior to that either and he's like we don't know each other vanita we don't have a relationship and we never had and i didn't think that you what you did to me was nice and i've always been nice to you and i'll continue to be nice to you so then why if you don't have a

29:48Ben Mandelker: relationship then why are you so upset about what she said on the podcast right and why are you expecting some sort of loyalty so vanita's like oh so you're exactly thank you and how are you

30:00Ronnie Karam: being nice by refusing to speak somebody or acknowledge them how is that being exactly

30:05Ben Mandelker: so crit so vinita's like you're being nice right now yes i'm just telling you how i feel it's nothing against you vinita's like um you're over talking and you're interrupting and i can't get my words out and it's never oh i didn't realize or oh i could see your side it's just like i did nothing wrong every time you speak vinita the things that you say about me they're actually like they're like really nasty that's like now delicate craig delicate craig who just screamed at sally on a bus and and screams at people all the time he is the one who cannot be on the receiving end of quote-unquote nastiness that vanita said on nick's podcast so she's like okay

30:45Ronnie Karam: well i'm sorry for saying nasty things about you i'm sorry okay i'll say it again i'm sorry and he's like well thank you and she goes because i can apologize for that and there's no but after do You see that? Andy, well, Vanita, you seemed really hurt by Sally kind of choosing Craig over your friendship. And so I was like, that never happened, though. I never chose Craig over her friendship. I chose a penis. He was a penis.

31:09Ben Mandelker: The penis was on Craig, Sally.

31:11Ronnie Karam: How am I supposed to know that? Why did it become an either or for you, though?

31:17Ben Mandelker: No, no, I don't think it ever became an either or. I just think my emotions were so heightened because I understand now watching it back how aggressive it came across. And for that, I'm going to apologize to you, Sally, for coming across so aggressive. I think it was more so Sally, Sally and I are best friends. And I know that Sally just wants, you know, what she wants. And in my head, I was just like, okay, let me just make sure I'm steering her in the right direction and helping her as her friend. And Craig is not her end game. Like just say, Craig is not good for Sally. he was going to take advantage of her and manipulate her and I was trying to warn her and she just didn't care what I had to say

31:56Ronnie Karam: well even more than that I think if she was really being honest she'd say I was pissed because this man is being a shithead to me and he's refusing to speak to me and I feel like he's icing me out of the group and you don't even care as long as you can date him because that's what it was she wasn't like Craig's a bad person because blah blah blah she didn't like Craig because of what Craig, how Craig was reacting to her. So, and I would be hurt too. You know, it's like, why are you going to go date my friend? But she doesn't say it, you know, again,

32:29Ben Mandelker: it's like, you know, and the perfect chance to say, and I told you, so honestly, I think she should have said, I told you. So she should have said, and you know what I'm feeling because he, the same thing happened to you with Charlie and you tried to warn Charlie and you saw how you've, how you felt hurt when Charlie went. And now you know how I felt like, That's all she had to say. It would have been so vindicating.

32:50Ronnie Karam: Yeah, and I just want to acknowledge that when I'm sitting here saying, well, you should have said this and you should have done that. I do understand that it's also different being the only black person on a show and that if you do say something and you do argue, that they can use that against you and say, well, you're being aggressive or you're being this or whatever. So I get that it's a rough line to walk. You know what I mean? I get that that would be rough. That said, I still think like it's like you have – I think she does a very good job of standing up for herself. Like how she just stood up to Craig.

33:28Ronnie Karam: I thought that was pretty good. She did a good job there. It's more of a problem of like getting her actual feelings across. It's like she's trying to say things to just make it better and just standing by this is how I felt. You hurt my feelings because you know that guy doesn't like me and you know I'm really uncomfortable. and then you're coming around me talking about how much you love the guy. Like, how am I supposed to fucking feel about it?

33:49Ben Mandelker: Yeah, yeah. I think it's not that we need her to be argumentative. We just want her to say the thing that is really the thing here, which is that. Which is that, like, this guy, I was beefing with this guy, and he was mean to me, and, like, you're still deciding that you would rather go after him and knowing how much he hurt me. Commercials. Here comes one right now.

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36:39Ben Mandelker: Upgrade your sleep during Bowlin Branch's annual spring event. Take off 20 % site-wide. Plus, free shipping at bowlinbranch.com slash crappens with code crappens. That's bowlinbranch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D, branch.com slash crappens. Code crappens to unlock 20 % off. Exclusions apply. See site for details. so um uh vanita is saying that she made sally cry and sally's like well it made me feel like shit because we have a very real friendship and i feel like things have shifted and you haven't really wanted to be in pictures with me and you don't want you don't want me to post with you and i feel like you're honestly sometimes ashamed to call me a friend and it makes me sad almost as as it would make me if i didn't get to see austin's dick tonight you and i was like damn

37:34Ronnie Karam: so sally goes yeah you know like when fans and fans are out and they're like hey can we take a picture together and then you're like we can't be seen together i mean that just hurts my feelings which what the hell oh my god vanita does that i cracked up yeah and then vanita's like yeah

37:51Ben Mandelker: because on the back end of that i'm getting called stupid for having your back and like going and standing up for you and then you then turn around and play me like a fool in a friendship game um and so i was like but when did i play you i only played with austin's penis and venus is like well watching it back should explain it enough see that's i hate that response i hate that watching it back should explain it enough that's not enough vanita we're at a reunion say explicitly what it is it's like well vanita you're trashing me the entire fucking show i mean

38:22Ronnie Karam: I've said one thing in my green screen calling you immature. Well, what specifically from the show, Vanita, are you seeing? And she goes, well, I wouldn't say show really. I would say screenshots I get from people and comments and DMs. Okay, you just said you don't read Reddit or pay attention to any of this stuff. And I know this is technically Reddit, but it's the same thing. And she's like, this type of friendship you have, this is the type of person you want to be with. And Shep's like, but who are these people? They're not your friends if they're doing that. so vanita is basically saying it's not publicly like i'll be your friend but like the public doesn't like that i'm your friend so i'm not going to take pictures with you i mean that's

39:01Ben Mandelker: not great either that's not good at all when i was like oh this is a losing argument and like all of vanita's strong points before this are going to get thrown out the window because everyone's just going to focus on this you know like that that she's essentially kowtowing to the public, which also then gives greater credence to Craig and his issues with Vanita on the podcast. So yeah, so she's like, well, I'm sorry. So is it kowtowing?

39:28Ronnie Karam: I thought it was kowtowing.

39:30Ben Mandelker: Probably is kowtowing. And when I said it, I was like, that didn't sound right.

39:33Ronnie Karam: Well, I'm curious because you're like you would know more than me.

39:38Ben Mandelker: It's spelled kowtowing, but I think it's kowtowing. I actually do think it's kowtowing.

39:42Ronnie Karam: Well, I need to know now. How do you pronounce kowtowing? Okay. It says find out how rhymes with cow towel wing yeah towel okay cow telling thank you for correcting me

39:54Ben Mandelker: because as soon as i said it i was like this doesn't seem right um well i wanted to correct

39:58Ronnie Karam: myself if it was wrong because i say that all the time i love that saying i'm not gonna cat you i'm not gonna count out of you but then when you said cow toe i was like oh i like that i'm like towing a cow i'm not gonna tow your cow i started wondering where did that come from yeah well

40:16Ben Mandelker: Well, what's it going to take to kowtow you two back? Okay, because it's actually, it seems to me that you really miss each other. And I base that off of pretty much nothing. I just want to put a little ribbon on this segment so we can talk to Craig again. So it doesn't seem too deep what you guys are going through. So I don't know. Like, can you guys like, I don't know. Like, maybe you shouldn't, Vanilla, you shouldn't be caring about what the viewers are saying. It seems like you're too smart for that, right? Come on, let's fix this.

40:44Ronnie Karam: She's like, well, you know, look, I mean, we all fall in that trap sometimes. And I mean, am I going to cry? Am I going to cry right now? It's like, I have a green ax. Well, my makeup is too good for this. And Madison's like, yeah, you are hot. She's like, yeah, I'm hot. You know, the thing that got to me the most, like no offense to anybody on this couch, but I did not open myself up in any way to anyone else the way I did to Sally. Oh, God, I'm crying. I'm crying now. It's like, oh, that's not okay because you love her. you love her it's okay cry go ahead and cry go ahead and cry have i told you i miss you a lot

41:19Ben Mandelker: it's like i'll miss you i miss andy's children a lot too so yep that hurt my feelings and you know it's just i i can't even talk right now anyway and he's like okay you're good you're good it's not that deep okay well it is that deep because you're crying mass is like because it's a genuine friendship yeah i i just i miss that like i i hate that we have all this stupid squabble over Nothing.

41:46Ronnie Karam: Well, I will say, this is the first time in Southern Charm history that every single one of us are genuine friends. We all hang out outside of filming and stuff. Yeah, I get that vibe. I get it. The way that you're all screaming, fuck you, Craig. I totally get that vibe. Madison's like, well, we were like, you know, I miss you. I haven't seen you in five days in a row. You know, everyone's emotions are involved in this, Andy. Okay, everyone's. Even Brett's. Let's get Brett on the phone. Hey, Brett, you feeling any emotions? He's like, yeah. Okay, thank you. It was good. Look at him cry. It was so sad.

42:17Ben Mandelker: He's like a regular Mariah Carey over there with his emotions. So Vanita's like, there was a moment where I literally thought I was dying, and I called Sally, and Sally was at my house in six minutes, and mind you, she lives 15 minutes away from me. Sally's like, literally the first person I see when I wake up from my operation is Vanita smiling in my face. All right, well, Austin and Craig, take some fucking nuts because that's how you need to mend a friendship, you stupid fucking betas. That was a therapy session.

42:44Ronnie Karam: No, it wasn't. It's not a therapy session unless you ask Alexa something. Anyway, we'll talk to them in six more years of doing this and see how they handle it. Okay, and then maybe we'll take lessons because we do need lessons. And, you know, he's like smiley, charming Craig. He's like, remember me? Okay, we got past the rough Craig time, right, guys? Okay.

43:05Ben Mandelker: I'm just a sweet guy. By the way, Craig's lapels were driving me nuts. Did they drive you nuts? The lapels on his jacket were having this pointy tips, these pointy tips in the corner. And the thing is that the weight, when he'd sit in a certain way, they would rise above his shoulders. So he had these little points that were coming up from out of his blazer, and I was going nuts with them.

43:29Ronnie Karam: Pointy tips. I didn't notice his...

43:32Ben Mandelker: It drove me nuts. I wanted to acknowledge that for anyone else who saw it and was going crazy. Damn stupid fucking pointy tips.

43:40Ronnie Karam: Yeah. So now it's Craig's hot tub. Okay. Is Sally in love with Craig? She wanted to be his number one chick, but that relationship ultimately never hatched. When Sally realized she wasn't first in the pecking order, she wasn't even a side of honey mustard for chicken nuggets.

44:01Ben Mandelker: so we see the chickens and um andy's like sally what was it about greg and she's like oh it was strictly his looks and madison's like yeah you're just a hot piece of acid and shep's like oh gosh he's a show pony a piece of meat he's a piece of meat happy like the meat i i serve my cats

44:24Ronnie Karam: It's a goddamn piece of meat.

44:28Ben Mandelker: All right, Craig, was there ever any serious interest in Sally? I mean, honestly, it was just like, as like, so like, it's weird to say it, but like, I just saw you as a sister. Well, but it could be hot. Yeah, you know, that's okay in certain states.

44:48Ronnie Karam: all right well let's talk about the set the text sally sent after the first hot tub party sally wrote that was fun you responded yeah it was sally wrote i should have stayed you responded you could have if you wanted i got a boner sorry that was my text

45:05Ben Mandelker: god that was hot so scandalous now i would kind of interpret that text as like I could have slept with Craig Conover last night. You said that you were just being nice, but what did you mean by that? Well, I was just being like, well, she's gone and she was like, I should have stayed. I was like, yeah, you could always stay and we could have sex if you want. And I guess I shouldn't have sent it because maybe my judgment was not right or whatever. Yeah, it kind of has a double meaning. It means two things when you say, come over and let's fuck. It's more like a single meaning actually. Yeah, I would, I just meant like, let's hang out.

45:46Ben Mandelker: When I say like, we should like have sex. It's just like, let's like, you know, sit and watch like the Sandlot together, you know?

45:53Ronnie Karam: Yeah. I mean, if I were you, I would have thought, damn, I should have stayed. Well, Craig, you also said that during the hot tub get togethers, no one even kissed. Well, so there was like a night that Sally and Corey had gone off somewhere and like Charlie and I showed my, I showed my show. So I showed my sewing room to Charlie. Do you remember Charlie? She goes, yeah. And Shep's like, you're sewing dungeon. Of course.

46:18Ben Mandelker: And I basically was like, I went to kiss her. And Charlie goes, yeah, you said you can kiss me right now if you want. And I said, I don't want to. Craig said that to Charlie. You can kiss me if you want.

46:32Ronnie Karam: He's such a prize. Yeah, he's such a prize. He's like, I don't remember. And she goes, yeah, you said you can kiss me if you want. And I was like, I'm okay.

46:44Ben Mandelker: Wouldn't the right thing to say, can I kiss you? Greg goes, yeah, who knows? My moves aren't great. Whitner's like, you have permission.

46:56Ronnie Karam: You have my permission to kiss me. Thank you very much.

46:59Ben Mandelker: By the way, I was really upset that there was not really a line of questioning about those damn chickens. Why didn't Andy ask Sally, why did she get chickens for a man?

47:09Ronnie Karam: like that still is crazy to me sally is so beyond help at this point i mean she really is she doesn't even care um so i think they're just you know what are you gonna do you know so he asks about um he says you know over the years as we've talked about you've dating girls as we talk about in relationship to austin or shep's game you know you do seem like the three of them to be the most kind of chased out of everybody and he goes yeah well i wouldn't just hook up with someone unless i like them like i'd rather just go home by myself and do myself do yourself

47:47Ben Mandelker: shake hands with ben franklin by herself

47:52Ronnie Karam: i can't take up for a masturbator okay and sally's like well he just stands in front of the mirror looks at himself i would too wouldn't you he is hot wait is that a train coming down the track because here's what I hear.

48:10Ben Mandelker: Sally, you talked about wanting babies, but you ended up with chickens. The viewers had a lot to say about the chickens. Bravo lover on Twitter said, Sally buying chickens to impress Craig. Oh, man. Show of hands. Who thought buying chickens was to attract Craig? So Austin raises his hand. Sally's like, what the fuck? I mean, we talked about it, you know? Yeah, but I watched it.

48:36Ronnie Karam: I mean, I watched it. I watched it, too. You got it for Craig. And Madison goes, I just thought it was stupid. Stupid thing to do. Yeah, well, you know, it looked like we're raising chickens together. That's what it looks like you were thinking. She's like, well, okay, but no one saw the conversation about the chickens. They cut that. That would have made me look innocent. Y 'all cut it.

48:55Ben Mandelker: Well, instead of asking a follow-up question about this, I'm going to ask you this. You know, you kind of went after both Craig and Austin this season, and I wonder if you learned anything more about what you're looking for in a man as a result. Sorry, just laughing at the concept of you learning a lesson.

49:14Ronnie Karam: Well, actually, no, I wouldn't say that. I mean, me and Austin have a really good foundation, like friendship, you know, and I'm not saying anything's ever going to happen there, okay? But genuinely, I think that Austin's just such a good guy. He's going to make a great husband and a great dad. I can't wait to get pregnant with his babies. Woo-hoo! Can't wait to raise him. Wow.

49:35Ben Mandelker: Sally's also going to make a great mom, despite the fact that she has a very, very high body count. Huge body count. She's going to make an amazing, loose mom. Those babies will literally pop right out of her.

49:50Ronnie Karam: Gross, Sally. God, I think Sally, you know, she doesn't seem like she has a bad bone in her body, but God, what a ding-dong. My God. So Andy's like, well, he's going to make a great father of your children. And Craig's like, yeah, we're going to make fun dads. I'll tell you that. Well, y 'all are about to age the fuck out of it. You better get on it.

50:11Ben Mandelker: Shut up. Now everyone's getting their hair done. And Andy's like, welcome back. This season, we were joined by an Arkansas named Charlie and Wittner, a well-read attorney, or what Craig would call a lawyer and a story reader. Get it? So, Whitner, here's your one question you will be asked. What surprised you most about your first season? The DMs were probably... That's great. Okay, now let's move right on to Charlie.

50:43Ronnie Karam: I actually love this because he's like, it's nothing to do with the show. It's all the chances he gets to get laid in the DMs. That's why the men on this show suck because I have every chance in the world. And that's why you will probably suck next year, Whitner, your second year. Nobody gets out unscathed. So he says he got an unsolicited DM from someone sending him most, like all these sexual offers. And then after sending an explicit offer, sent three voice memos lecturing him about not becoming a fuck boy. And he's like, mixed messaging, okay?

51:16Ben Mandelker: Well, your mom got a lot of love this season. Well, you know, thank you. She is an anarchist. and she is currently penning her manifesto for the rebellion in one of our states in France. So keep an eye out for that.

51:29Ronnie Karam: She's now an anarchist with about 37 dicks in her DMs, Andy. Those DMs are crazy.

51:38Ben Mandelker: All right. Well, we got a lot of comments about your literary-themed birthday party. Shep, fans want to know, why didn't you tell Craig that Rufio is not in the book Peter Pan? He's only in the movie. and Shep is like, gosh, well, I wasn't really that into Peter Pan. And, you know, if this were a different season, I would say,

51:57Ronnie Karam: because it's so fun to watch Craig fail. Gosh. Shep only had eyes for me because I was dressed like Shep. So that's why. And Craig's like, yeah, it was a compliment. I haven't practiced my long-winded speech. It was good. Putting some wooden teeth, called it a day. Well, Charlie, you came in as the new girl and everyone had eyes on you. Was that overwhelming? She's like, uh, you know, I just...

52:22Ben Mandelker: She's shaking.

52:25Ronnie Karam: Well, you know, I think this group in general is just, like, overwhelming. And, like, I love y 'all, but, like, everything you do, like, being under a microscope, I just feel like I knew that coming into it, but God.

52:38Ben Mandelker: Sally, you're the one who brought Charlie into the group. Did you ever suspect the two of you would be kind of circling the same guy? Not really, but what, you know? Did you pick up any vibes between them and your group hot tubs? No. Oh, no. Did you think she was downplaying her interests? 1 ,000%. And I definitely like all of us would be going to dinner all the time. And like we go to dinners, we go out. And then y 'all started texting outside of the cult, which I didn't know happened.

53:07Ronnie Karam: Y 'all are in a cult. Jeez. Yeah, you guys are a cult.

53:11Ben Mandelker: Yeah. It was secretive. Cult of the hot tub.

53:15Ronnie Karam: Yeah, it was secretive. So I'm not knowing, you know, I'm in the dark on all of this and I have no idea that they're texting. I got no idea that they're FaceTiming all the time. And that's where my frustration lies. It's like, I don't think you were truthful from the get go of your interest in Craig. It's like, well, because everyone wanted me to be like, yes, I like Craig. And I'm like, I don't know him yet. Like, can I just get to know him? Like, how do I even know if I like him if I don't secretly get to know him?

53:37Ben Mandelker: Charlie, did you think Sally was trying to ruin your relationship with Craig? Because we all agree the answer is yes. And she's like, well, at times it did feel like that. And I knew like subconsciously you had something to say about it all the time. Sort of like how I'd come home and there'd just be all these bottles of Yoo-Hoo all over my apartment. Where'd those come from?

53:55Ronnie Karam: Yeah, but you also didn't want to talk about it because you wanted it to be a secret. Well, it's not that I wanted it to be a secret. It's just like I wanted to form my own opinion about it. And I couldn't really do that with you in a hot tub naming imaginary chickens that you were going to raise together one day. Like it was hard. It was hard for me.

54:10Ben Mandelker: Sally, at what point are you just going to accept the fact that you were fucking annoying about Craig? And she was interested and she just didn't want to bring up Craig around you. And because every time she brought up Craig, you were like a negative Nancy about it. And she just wanted to have a little fuck buddy for the summer.

54:26Ronnie Karam: You put down flags in everybody's yard and then, you know, claim that everybody's walking on your yard when they're just trying to exercise at night. You don't own the whole neighborhood.

54:36Ben Mandelker: Yes. I was just trying to do my nightly yard exercises and.

54:41Ronnie Karam: That's my yard.

54:42Ben Mandelker: It's not fair.

54:43Ronnie Karam: I saw that yard first. I put my flight there.

54:46Ben Mandelker: It's 9 p.m. Why are you exercising on my yard?

54:50Ronnie Karam: Yeah, but like we don't do friendship that way, you know? Like it's like there's not a night where we would go out and if she's got a guy's number, she'd call me and she'd tell me about that number. And then I'd try to guess the numbers and she wouldn't really tell me. So I'd wait for her to go to bed and I'd use facial recognition on her phone. I'd get the number and I'd text the guy. So fun. God, I love our friendship. Congratulations, you've reached the end of part one of a two-part recap. For part two, go look for the recap that says part two.

55:20Ben Mandelker: See you over there, suckers. Watch what Crappens would like to thank its premium sponsors. Ain't no thing like Alison King. Our way is the Amber way. It's the Foster and the Furious. It's Amanda Foster. It's Always Automatic with Ashley Otto. Put your hands together for Carly Clap.

55:37Ronnie Karam: Get on the right foot with Chrissy Offutt. She's not just a Sheila, she's a Daniela. Itchles! We never miss her call, it's Diane Call. Sunday in the Park with Dylan Clark. Big yay, it's Emily Gauthier.

55:50Ben Mandelker: Erin McNicholas, she don't miss no trick-a-less.

55:52Ronnie Karam: Hava Nagila Weber.

55:54Ben Mandelker: You'll never hide from Heidi Eleanor Jones. I go, you go, we all go for Hugo. Jamie, she has no less namey.

56:02Ronnie Karam: Sipped some scotch with Jessica Trotch.

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56:11Ronnie Karam: Kristen the Piston Anderson. Get a bee in your bonnet with Lacey B. Que sera, sera, whatever will be will Lauren Sills be. She gets an A from us. It's Lindsay D. Let's give a kisserino to Lisa Lino. Fresh as a daisy, it's Maisie McHenry.

56:27Ben Mandelker: Aren't you glad it's Marianne Arns?

56:30Ronnie Karam: Megan Berg. You can't have a burger without the Berg.

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56:54Ben Mandelker: Can I have a Kavanaugh? It's Anna Kavanaugh. Somebody get us 10 cc's of Betsy MD.

56:59Ronnie Karam: We're taking the gold with Brenda Silva. Let's get real with Caitlin O 'Neill Put us on a stretcher, it's Charlotte Fletcher Hoagel your horses, it's Christine Hoagel Don't get salty with Christine Pepper Can't have a meal without the Emily Sides

57:14Ben Mandelker: Who, what, why, where, and Gwen Pentland Nobody holds a candle to Jamie Kendall We got our wish, it's Jen Plish My favorite Murdo, Karen McMurdo

57:24Ronnie Karam: She's a total knockout, it's Katie Manok

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57:42Ronnie Karam: The incredible edible Matthews sisters. She eases our woes, it's Melissa St. Rose. There's a chance of meatballs, it's Rebecca Cloud. She's our princess, it's Rebecca Prince.

57:53Ben Mandelker: Maximum love for Sandy Maximoska. She's the queen bee, it's Sarah Lemke. We cannot tell a lie. It's Sarah Tellefson. Shannon out of a can in Anthony. Please don't stop. It's Solian Pop. Let's take off with Tamla Plain. Strike a pose. It's Tori Rose.

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