#3281 Southern Hospitality S4E04: Goodbye to Cucumbersome Friends

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0:41Ben Mandelker: I've always loved how the show skewers Hollywood, and seeing Lisa Kudrow return as the iconic Valerie Cherish is exactly what we need right now.

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1:18Ronnie Karam: You'll also hear from cast members like Laura Silverman and Ella Stiller, plus comedy powerhouses like Abby Jacobson and John Early. For anyone who loves a behind-the-scenes look at how iconic TV is made, this is a must-listen.

1:31Ben Mandelker: Stream the HBO original series The Comeback on HBO Max Sundays at 10.30pm and watch The Comeback podcast on HBO Max or listen wherever you get your podcasts.

1:55Ben Mandelker: Who cares what happens when there's so much that happens?

2:25Ronnie Karam: where you get our bonus episodes. Next week, for the first time ever, we will be doing a full Survivor recap, just for fun, because we love it. So check that out over on Patreon. That's also where you get bonus, like I just said, bonus, ad-free listening, Discord server, and a free newsletter. If you don't want to pay for any of that, you don't have to. Just go become a Patreon member for free and get our weekly blog about all things Bravo and sometimes our personal lives. What do you think about that? Today, Southern Hospital. Ben, what say you?

2:57Ben Mandelker: What a good episode. I mean, this show is so good. It's so good. Really, the reason why it was a good episode was different. I mean, there was drama in this episode. The past episodes of the season have had lots of drama that's been like soapy and fun. This one was actually, I thought, pretty fascinating. Showed the complications of what it means to show up to someone as a friend. And I thought we saw that with Maddie and Grace Lily. And we see that with Lake and Emmy and Brad. And I thought it was really, I thought it was pretty fascinating, actually. It was like sort of caught me by surprise.

3:38Ben Mandelker: What about you?

3:39Ronnie Karam: Pretty good.

3:44Pretty good.

3:46Ronnie Karam: That's my Tom Colicchio answer. It was pretty good. The challenge was to make a good episode, and I think you did it. I think you did it overall.

3:57Ronnie Karam: Did you mean to get Grace Lilly out on the same episode where she came out as a drug addict? Okay, here we go. Southern Hospitality Season 4, Episode 4, Saving Grace. Maddie narrates what's been going on. And then we are back to Molly and Lake's Girls and Gays Night. And Grace Lilly is like, I really need to be quiet before I say something I'm not supposed to say. So let me just stop talking right now. I'm not going to say nothing then.

4:26Ben Mandelker: Yeah. And everyone is like, there's like suddenly a splash. Everyone's like, what's that? And Michaels has put his face into the cooler full of cucumbers. And they're like, oh, my God. Michaels. Oh, my God. He's going to die. He's going to die. He's like, no, y 'all are doing too much. I'm like ready to play the game. So Molly's like, okay, everyone. Okay, so we're just going to pivot to this real quickly. Let's explain the game. So we're going to go bobbing for penises. slash bobbing for cucumbers. And Michaels is like trying to get his cucumber, but he can't get it. He's like, I'm going to. So then he finally pulls one up.

5:01Ben Mandelker: It's like in his mouth. It's like sexy. It's like the dick in his mouth. Everyone's like, oh my God.

5:08Ronnie Karam: I'm used to having like big things in my mouth anyway. So like, don't be prude. You all do it. And so they're going to play this game. So it's kind of truth. Like you can either answer the question or you can bob for a cucumber, but it turns into answering the question and then bobbing for a cucumber. No one really pays attention to the rules because they all want to bob for the cucumber.

5:32Ben Mandelker: Who knew? They do want these enormous cucumbers.

5:36Ronnie Karam: They're huge. And they've also been all over Michael's and TJ's dicks, and no one really cares because I guess they've been in water, so who cares? You know what else has been in water? Brain-eating algae.

5:48Ben Mandelker: Yep, that's right. So the game kicks off, and Mia asks the first question, TJ, what's the name of the last person you had sex with? I'm just going to do the cucumber thing. So then he takes off his shirt for no reason. Didn't really make sense. But he's like, I'm taking off my shirt. It's been 16 months since I've had sex. So no, I don't remember the guy's name. Oh God, TJ, you look real good. You look good doing that. Okay, good job for you. I would watch you on a gay porn. Learn.

6:20Ronnie Karam: And they all laugh. And now Molly. Molly, when's the last time you hooked up with Bailey? And that's her ex-boyfriend. She's like, Wednesday. And they're like, oh, my God, today's Wednesday. Oh. And now it's that Jordan girl's turn, the bartender with the rouge. And so they're like, Jordan, when's the last time you had sex with Justin? She's like, oh, my God, it was Thursday. And they're like, oh, my God, watch your hair. Wait. But she bobs anyway. but she can't really do it so she just pulls a cucumber out and puts it in her mouth

6:53Ben Mandelker: and Lake is like wait did you say yes to going on a date with Justin and why and Mia's like I said you know what I said yes initially and why well just you know because and Jordan goes but did you even think about me she goes no no I didn't she's like I'm not friends with Jordan I barely know her like I literally just gotta have a relationship so a hot guy's in front of me I'm not thinking about you sorry

7:18Ronnie Karam: Mia's like, I'm going to speak for the audience here and say I didn't think about Juliet. Okay. Jordan. I mean, I didn't remember her name. I did not think about Jordan. Okay. Still not thinking about Jordan. Okay. Also, he said Marbled and Finn, and that's like my favorite place to go. And Jordan's like, that's my favorite restaurant. He says, well, that's why I said yes. Okay. Because it's a great restaurant that I knew you probably loved. But I canceled it. Oh, for you. Not because of you. Because I just, I'm not really into him. And I couldn't imagine being on a date with him when Jordan's so upset.

7:49Ronnie Karam: Just kidding. Just because I don't like him. You know? I mean, I look across from him and I think, oh, God, how could Jordan have sex with this guy? Right, Jordan? Am I right? So I just thought, how many pathetic people does this friend group need? Jordan, you win. Congrats, Jordan.

8:01Ben Mandelker: I just saw this guy and I thought, wow, I just cannot be another one of those pathetic girls who lines up to date this guy. Okay? Yeah, I could get laid, but is it worth it? I mean, I think it's time that we women have more self-respect. Anyway, have a great time with him, Jordan. Have a great time. You know, I just thought, what came first?

8:21Ronnie Karam: The Justin or the Rouge? And I just didn't want to risk it. So you can keep him, Jordan. Love the Rouge.

8:28Ben Mandelker: So then Michaels is like, girl, you should have known better than the girl and Justin. And he's just like, yeah, I mean, like, you really can't get upset. She's like, oh, no, I'm not upset about him dating, like, asking me out on a date. It's like, not my issue. I'm like, not upset. I'm like, totally not upset.

8:43Ronnie Karam: I'm not upset. she's trying to make this a thing with mia but you are going up against the wrong person and i don't like that her answer is basically insinuating it's not about him asking mia out on a date it's about mia who should be a girl's girl and not go out on the date with justin right i think that's what she's insinuating but you're at work like you're you all fuck everybody at work and this guy's told you a million times he doesn't want anything with you so but then we see him later in a scene where she's like, just don't date anybody in my friend's circle. And he's like, oh, okay.

9:17Ben Mandelker: Yeah, good luck with that. TJ's like, Jordan can't get mad because she knows that Justin hooks up with other girls. And Lake's like, yeah, she's at this man's house every single night and they have a relationship and he has a toothbrush for her. So it's just fucked up.

9:34Ronnie Karam: Yeah. So, you know, that's maybe a sign of a relationship, but it's also a sign of somebody coming over without a toothbrush and you don't want to kiss them when they're stinky so you just have a toothbrush he probably also has like a 10 pack of toothbrushes where he's like here he probably does uh lake is up next to ask answer a question

9:54Ben Mandelker: so mia says whose team are you more on brads or emmys and like without a that like a hesitation she goes emmys and it was like oh you are she's and they're like wow no hesitation i'm done And Lake is like, why is everybody so shocked? Like, literally Brad friendzoned me, and then he made out with me, and then he got a girlfriend. So obviously I would choose Emmy. Like, huh? So everyone's like, huh?

10:18Ronnie Karam: You know, for obvious reasons. Yeah, so now Grace goes and she's like, Hell no, I'm not doing that. I don't do that. I've already been baptized. I don't even do that. I'm not comfortable with it. And Mia's like, you have to participate. Just, no, I don't think it's appropriate. I'm sorry. Okay? I know Jesus and Buddha, and let me tell you what neither one of them did. Bob for dicks, okay? It ain't anywhere in the Bible.

10:43Ben Mandelker: Grace Lily does not get on her knees to bob for fucking cucumbers. Come on. I get on my knees for God and for Bob Marley.

10:53Ronnie Karam: Okay, then, Maddie, your turn. So, Grace Lily is like, Maddie Reese, have you fucked Joe in the ass?

11:03Ben Mandelker: Everyone's like, oh, my God. Why? Because I have, like, a penis? She's like, no, I mean, he likes it in the butt, right? No. I just thought I'd ask. She's got, okay, she's coming for me tonight. She's like, no, no, it's a real question. I want to know, does he like it in the ass? That's it, just a real question.

11:23Ronnie Karam: She's like, no, you've, like, been coming for me, like, since the moment I arrived here. Like, seriously.

11:29Ben Mandelker: It's super clear that Grace is, like, trying to embarrass me. And I'm over it, okay? I would not be embarrassed. Now, excuse me why I stick my head into a giant cooler of water and pull out a cucumber with my teeth.

11:40Ronnie Karam: It's just a real question, okay? I thought TJ and Joe hooked up, though. They're like, what? Oh, my God. And Mia's like, oh, my God, Grace, if I were her, I would never talk to your ass again. But that's what TJ said. And they're like, no, he didn't. And Grace is like, uh-huh, I thought it was a real question. And TJ is telling us, goddammit, Grace, I've never talked to Grace about Joe and myself. Like if you know I'm finally in a better place with Joe and Maddie Like this is the last thing I want And Mia's like you took it way too far And you act like this and you're like why doesn't anybody call me Or text me or do anything But that's who I am though So that's who I am

12:16Ben Mandelker: I mean take a fucking joke even though I just said three times It was a serious question We're playing a stupid fucking game I say one wrong thing and I'm crucified And I'm fucking like Jesus Christ And you know what I think the biggest reason Why I relate to that man so much is because he was human.

12:36Ben Mandelker: Probably relate to a lot of people in that case.

12:39Ronnie Karam: Yeah, you've got a lot. You've got millions of people that you can relate to. Yeah, almost. So Mia's like, you wonder why people don't invite you anywhere? It's because of shit like this. And your fuck-ass attitude you have is fucking crazy. And then for you to look at her and say some crazy-ass, hurtful shit like that, that is getting wild. You're fucking crazy. And she's like, it was a legit question, though. Jesus would have asked it. don't you remember in the bible jesus turned him out to you and he said you like it up the ass i mean no one got on him about it i mean granted he got crucified but it wasn't because of the

13:08Ben Mandelker: ass questions no it was not a legit question i thought that they hooked up though like her her protests are sort of getting quieter and more like but i thought it was serious i thought he liked it up the ass like no it's not legit yeah she goes you know it's not legit

13:28Ronnie Karam: you know it and she'll put tj said it tj never said it and you know that so get her out of my fucking face you know what i'm gonna punch her in the head i'm gonna punch her in the head

13:37Ben Mandelker: weren't you surprised that tj didn't say anything well i would if i were tj i would have been like i never said that what are you talking about but he just sort of sat there and like had this look

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17:03Ben Mandelker: And now I think it's time for you to leave and for me to take your position on this show. Thank you. You can see your way out. And Grace Lee is, she's like, okay, I understand. And it's okay. Thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it. She's like very, like, she's like, I don't know. I actually felt so sad for her in that moment. I don't know why it was weird. Grace Lee was acting like a total idiot at this party, but it was in that moment where, I don't know, I just, my heart kind of weirdly broke for her. I can't explain it.

17:33Ronnie Karam: I think because it's like she's in a group where nobody really likes her and they're finally all telling her, like, fuck off, you know? And even if someone deserves it, it's always sad to see one person getting the brunt. But she did earn this one for sure. She did. Okay, I guess I'll go wear pajamas in a place I know there's going to be pajamas because I told myself there'd be pajamas at home, man. Bye, man. Bye.

17:58Ben Mandelker: Bye. Oh, is my phone over there? I think my phone's over. Is my phone there? Is it behind you? Is it? Where? Which one? Which one? Which one? Which one's your phone? Which is your phone? I think it's maybe a fail in the crack. Is it over there? It goes on for like 10 minutes.

18:17Ronnie Karam: It's like the TJ. You know, it's in between. Just think of the couch as Joe's butt crack. And then my phone, TJ, sliding between it. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I thought it was what happened.

18:30Ben Mandelker: It was a serious analogy. So she finally gets her phone. So she just leaves. It's so awkward.

18:36Ronnie Karam: It's really awkward. and so um michael's asks maddie if she's good it's like i'm just exhausted and mia's like maddie you should have been exhausted last year in vegas bitch i've been telling you she's nuts

18:50Ben Mandelker: and we have a flashback to last year in vegas and grace silly going off on maddie at that restaurant being like you are so fake you are so fake well she had your back like no no no she's not had my back yes i have the way you were the way you were speaking to her right now you can actually bring me to tears, which is very difficult. That was me.

19:08Ronnie Karam: So Maddie's like, no, I know. I know. You know, like it's embarrassing that I'm the one keeping her around. And then she like constantly will like implode on me, you know, like I feel like she constantly hurts me and goes to bed at night, like thinking she's like holier than thou because she knows Jesus and Buddha and that guy who smokes a lot of weed and makes like reggae music. But like time has proven over and over again that like maybe we're just not meant to be friends.

19:33Ben Mandelker: So now it's a new day and Lake is FaceTiming with her mom. And her mom's like, are you drinking water? Are you drinking water? And she's like, mom, no, it's been more liquor. She's like, honey. She's like, I know, mom. Please make sure you're drinking enough water, honey. It is so hot in Charleston. You need to make sure you're hydrating extra. It's everything. Hydrate Lake. Your name is named after hydration so you would never forget. And look what you're doing. Forgetting.

20:00Ronnie Karam: would you have rather me named you what your father wanted to name you gallon jug okay i chose a class of your name and you're still forgetting lake okay i said it doesn't need to be so on the nose honey god but still you won't drink that water honey please drink your water

20:15Ben Mandelker: so lake gatorade rucker i demand that you drink your water

20:22Ronnie Karam: so like it's like well speaking of dad i spoke to dad the other day and she's like oh you did she goes yeah like it's like still kind of like we don't talk every day but because we went from talking on the phone every day multiple times every single day to clear silence because like i don't think he can open his eyes to the idea of me liking girls so she's saying that last year she kind of came out of the closet about her first girlfriend and you know how she had her sexual awakening with her best friend and girlfriend and that her dad got really pissed that she shared that on camera and that he says that she's disrespectful and has no respect for anybody and she's like he made me feel like i killed somebody and the mom's like you know what

21:05Ben Mandelker: he's just dramatic you got that from him for sure drama and not drinking your water and she goes yeah there's a lot of status quo when it comes to black southern generational wealth and she talks about how her great her great grandparents were millionaires in the 30s and there's a whole school named after her great-grandfather and there's this whole legacy that their family has and also a subsequent family image that like there's a lot of pressure to uphold um and so jerry her mom is like well sometimes when people are angry they react and i don't think your dad really believes that you're disrespectful or bad person he just is not going to have you know some sort of therapeutic conversation, especially if you haven't been drinking your water.

21:45Ronnie Karam: He's not going to have a conversation with a dry person, like, okay. And she's like, well, like Michaels is trying to call me. Hold on, let me decline him. And she's like, um, okay, well, I'd rather talk to him. Just kidding. Michaels, or what we call him in my house, moisturize Michaels. Okay. Tell him I said his skin looks glowing. Okay. So if you're waiting for a long drawn out apology from your dad, manage your expectations because it's your dad. Okay? Just give him a decent meat filled sandwich, pat him on the back and just be thankful.

22:17Ben Mandelker: He still loves you. He broke my heart, destroyed my family, but like he loves you and that's what matters the most. Yeah, I know. And you know, when you become an adult, you get to dictate the kind of relationship you want to have with your parents. I recommend a good one with me, a bad one with him. And the flip side is that your parents get to dictate the type of relationship they want with you. And in his case, he's just going to be a dick to you. So that's it. Okay, honey, have that water. I'll talk to you later. Bye.

22:43Ronnie Karam: So then we go to Maddie and Joe at home and Joe's like, oh my God, is that dragon fruit? Is that like dragon fruit that you're eating?

22:51Ben Mandelker: Joe, Joe, can you just make me a tea? God, how many times do I tell you that's an apple? Every single day, it's an apple. It's a wax apple. It's the same apple that's there every single day, Joe. It's not dragon fruit, Joe. So did dragon apple? No.

23:04Ronnie Karam: It's dragon fruit, basically. It doesn't even exist, Joe. Dragons like apples. But what do the fruit do dragon eat?

23:09Ben Mandelker: Joe, seriously, I'm going to take back the charger side of the bed if you keep asking me about the dragon fruit.

23:13Ronnie Karam: Seriously. Wow. Look at... It's such a nice day out here. This looks so nice. Like, hey. So nice. Anybody... Come to Republic later. I'll be there. I'm just trying to walk my dog, sir.

23:24Ben Mandelker: Still. Still, though. I got her. Nailed it. Joe, stop harassing the people on the street, okay? Not everything is about bringing people to Republic. Hey, wait. Hey, guy out on the street. is this a dragon fruit joe stop showing him the apple okay wax so like have uh has grace reached

23:41Ronnie Karam: out like have you texted grace she's like no not today like i tried to keep her a part of this group and then she just like embarrasses me pretty much insinuating that like i peg you which is like crazy he's like yeah like it is crazy like hold on i need to move this pillow over under me this chair's really hard

24:00Ben Mandelker: I did like that Joe just like laughed when she said yeah she incinerated that I paid you he goes

24:07Ben Mandelker: yeah that's fucked up uh like I almost like want to laugh I know what I think I'm gonna laugh I just laughed okay so that was the story of my laugh and that's just like clearly a jab to like hurt you and like that and why is she like trying to hurt you like I don't know if she's like jealousy or she has like some resentment towards you but like by the way could be all the above Joe just want to say but you do like a million things for her and like she don't all she has to bring you down it's like not friendship yeah it's like a toxic relationship where like she can hurt me over and over and over again and then i'm just gonna like forgive her and i can't do it anymore it's like it's like it's draining me it's like it's like it's like when you try to juice that dragon fruit on the counter joe you can't even do it's wax and it's not a dragon fruit come on joe so

24:45Ronnie Karam: she says that there's something that they're not talking about here and it's the reason that she sticks around as a friend and she says she has empathy for grace and what she's going through because she can relate to it and she didn't want her to be alone or like god forbid something happens and she misses that call um because you know it's it's substance abuse basically she's like and as someone who's in recovery you want to be there for your friend when they're suffering you know and you don't want them to die or something and you not be the one answering the

25:16Ben Mandelker: phone which probably explains like a lot of grace's behavior over the last season or two remember she was like super late for the performance she's supposed to be at she was like like you know she was super super late showed up last minute you know when you look back like oh maybe there was more going on in vegas than we realized uh but this is actually like it's actually heartbreaking to see maddie like this because you know this is a very very serious situation and it's a very serious thing in maddie's life and you can see she just wants to help her friend even if it means that she has to take a whole bunch of pot shots about about pajamas in the process but for real she has to take she's like man i have to put up with all this shit but it's like it's worth it

26:01Ronnie Karam: for me to try to save my friend yeah and joe's saying well look everything you're doing is clearly not working you know so like i get that you're trying but it doesn't seem to be doing anything and maddie's saying you know the selfless thing to do is to let her go and hopefully she'll change and stop hurting the people she loves and she's like i'm not helping so maybe i'm not the person to help you know and that's a hard pill to swallow no pun intended so joe's like you know maybe a different phrase there yeah and joe's like uh well you've had a hard year too you know so it's you know i don't know that we've all had this i've certainly had this discussion in my life it's like well okay well i've had that problem too and people didn't abandon me so if i have somebody going through that problem how much are you there how much are you supposed to be there you know like how much do you have to take until everything is different every situation is

26:56Ben Mandelker: different and also like at a certain point certain things are sort of out of your hand and it's like a lot of times even when people ask for advice with relationships or whatever at a certain point you say you got to get professional help right like i can only i i can't help you i have a limit to what I can do and I want to help all as much as I can but like not everyone it's just like it may be just too big for Maddie and she shouldn't be beating herself up for that like it's it's a it's a big ask and you know it's it's it's really sad to see her going through it over this yeah

27:29Ronnie Karam: yeah it's a rough one so uh now it's Sunday brunch and Michaels is leading his meeting he's like all All right. Like, happy Sunday. It's a fun Sunday, right? So, you know, the weather's cool. Okay. Why are you touching my nipples right now? She's like, oh, my God, it's so hard. One of the waitresses is like, your nipples are so hard right now. He's like, okay, so let's get set up. Let's get Maddie. Play some tunes, I guess. Okay. Great pep talk, everybody. It's fun. My nipples are really, really hard right now.

28:02Ben Mandelker: There's a girl named Bella there, and she's also playing with his nipples. It's like, okay, everyone, come on, get to work. So Brad's mixing some juices. He's getting ready. He's excited. And he says, he's telling, he's saying that he's gonna, telling Justin that he's gonna, he's gonna say something to Emmy today. And he's like, you know, you know, like running into her in the event and how she like went mute on me and Julia. He's like, oh yeah. So Brad tells us a story that, you know, everything seemed to be fine with him and Emmy at Folly Beach. And then they went to an influencer event and at one of his favorite restaurants in town.

28:38Ben Mandelker: So adding insult to injury. And they see Emmy and they say hi and it's nice and everything's fine. But then when Will walked in, Emmy shifted and she just basically started giving them not just a cold shoulder. I mean, she was just blatantly ignoring them, wouldn't make eye contact, anything. And Brad's confused because he thought that they were working towards something better. And it just, he says like, it's just like, oh, wait a second. The second your fiance comes around, everything changes.

29:03Ronnie Karam: Yeah. And so Justin was like, yeah, you know, like I asked her, like, you're making amends because you think you feel bad and you think you fucked up in that situation. And she's like, no, I think if I don't make amends that Brad and TJ are going to ruin my fucking life. And Brad's like, what? And he goes, yeah. So then we see a flashback. I mean, Emmy is just such a dodo bird. She's not only saying this stuff. She says it all on camera. You know? Yeah. She's like, oh, well, I don't want to say I apologize to Brad. But Brad was terrifying. or like you know okay i apologize to tj but tj does need to stop getting guys drunk straight guys drunk so he can take advantage of them it's like and then this here's another example she's telling him on camera yeah i was like best friends with him and like i've seen what brad's done to his you know like like when his feelings are like i've seen how tj reacted to joe you know so like it gives me anxiety because i'm like oh i mean all right like if they want to put their heads together like they could really try and fuck my life you know and like what i've learned is like i'm sorry like i you know i just i just say i'm sorry that's all i do but like i'm terrified of

30:02Ben Mandelker: them like you'd ruin my life i think emmy is doing a good job of it on her own personally i mean i assume also what she was saying is like brad made up an entire lie about maddie maddie's boyfriend cheating just to get back at maddie so like what would like what spiteful thing might he do to me but i kind of think that like you applaud you you had this really nice apology moment with him and like just lean into that and try to grow your friendship and then you just call up this guy justin who you don't even really know and you're gonna say this stuff you're like oh god oh this is bad this is really bad well yeah it's like what is she doing does she

30:39Ronnie Karam: want this stuff to get back to them that's what's confusing yeah or is she just bad at this yeah i

30:45Ben Mandelker: think she's bad i think she's just bad honestly so now brad's like did i get played there's like not one second where you've been real to me. Everything was just an act. Your apology doesn't mean shit. And everything you said is all bullshit because everything you said is bullshit. So fuck you. I'm pissed.

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33:57Ronnie Karam: Okay, so then we go to Grace Lilly, which I was very surprised by this scene. I was really shocked that this was happening on Southern Hospitality, especially with Grace. Grace tells us that Maddie basically has not been talking to her. She needs Maddie because Maddie holds her accountable, and she needs that. She says, Maddie's the only one that knows what I struggle with, and I want to be better for myself and the people around me, and I can't work by myself forever. She goes to see a sobriety coach named Isaac.

34:34Ben Mandelker: and basically we have a long and pretty powerful scene where she meets with Isaac and talks about basically that she started doing ketamine a few years ago and she started doing it more and more and more. And she's essentially addicted to it. And then she had a really scary thing to happen, which was that like one of her best friends died from the same batch of ketamine that she was using. And that was, that's like obviously like terrifying. um and so we see her just kind of trying to uh negotiate this whole situation she's never reached out for professional help before she hasn't really ever talked about it she hasn't even told her parents so we see her talking to this guy and um you know it's i was pretty it was it was like definitely her most like emotionally honest scene that we've i shouldn't not emotionally honest emotionally raw scene we've seen from her ever before yeah i mean basically coming clean you

35:32Ronnie Karam: know it was basically like an aa meeting on camera where she's like i'm a drug addict and i can't do it alone and i need help and she cries and stuff and it's it's i mean i was i was surprised it was a good scene you know good for her for doing it yeah it was powerful when she said like you know i always felt like i was stronger than this or i

35:53Ben Mandelker: wouldn't basically fall into this and my whole thing is my motto in life is wavy baby and like i'm sick of feeling trapped in my own body when i've always been a free spirit i was like that was kind of a powerful sentiment to express and like she just wants to be out there and free but she's kind of like a prisoner to addiction right now yeah so drugs are always stronger

36:14Ronnie Karam: drugs are strong you can be as strong as you want but drugs are stronger they are stronger Yeah, so scary. So, yeah, it's a good scene. Good for her. You know, we know that since this, she's been in trouble twice so far. Well, I shouldn't say so far. That's a rude way to put it. But she's been in trouble twice. She's been arrested twice. One time was for having happy pills. And the second time, I don't know what it was. It was drug-related again. But I don't think they specified what it was that time. So, it sucks. I love Grace Lily. I love her. I know.

36:47Ben Mandelker: We want her just to get better. and to like to to be able to persevere it's very scary it is very scary seeing she talked about this and then you know and like you said her like her arrests etc like you just hope that this is not a downward spiral and that she continues to move upwards but as Isaac said and as many others have said before recovery is not a straight line up and so she's definitely on a journey but we're so I'm so glad that she is now reaching out for help and that's like really brave of her to do that on tv so you know yeah you know it is brave on tv because and there's a reason that people

37:23Ronnie Karam: avoid it on tv you know they'll say you know like we talked about the karen thing uh karen from real housewives of potomac went to went to jail for drunk drunk like her fourth dui or whatever and then had a interview and wouldn't really say out the word alcoholic she refused you know she took accountability kind of but there's a reason that on shows like southern charm or um summer house or they use terms like Adderall. You know, they'll pick the legal, or it was just weed. I was addicted to weed. There is something very scary about coming out because addiction isn't a straight line. And it's not like you do, people expect on TV, it's like a storyline.

38:01Ronnie Karam: So you go on, you talk about it, and then it's over. You get over it, and then the next season you're fine. And that's just not how it works. You know, it goes on forever. It's your whole life. You know, it's your whole life of dealing with it. So good for her for getting.

38:16Ben Mandelker: Good for her and best of luck. And we hope that she comes out on top. So now we go over to Michael's new apartment and he doesn't have to be in work until 4 p.m. He gets a text from Leva. It's, oh my God, I'm going to get to sleep in tonight. Thank God. So Lake comes over and they're saying hi and everything. And they're just like, you know, gathering at, they sit down in the windowsill and she's like, oh my God, I haven't been here during the daytime. It's like, yeah, because you're a lady of the night. She's like, yeah, I'm a lady that night. Let me just sit on the Ikea bag. Yeah, it's like a work in progress.

38:51Ben Mandelker: Like, I'm almost done. Be proud of me.

38:53Ronnie Karam: So they start talking about Emmy. He's like, okay, so how do you feel about, like, after your intervention or whatever? And she's like, what? And he says, about Emmy. And so we see Lake sharing that she was on Emmy's team at the girls' night. And she's like, well, obviously, like, I trust Emmy more than Brad. Like, I don't even talk to him anymore. Like, we made out, like, twice. it's not like he we had a million long relationship like i don't know that guy's shit he's like yeah but you know you have to understand brad because like today i worked out with him and he said i thought lake would have more sympathy for the comment that was made and she's like oh like the unsafeness the unsafeness and the microaggression and he's like yo because um he was

39:35Ben Mandelker: like julio so upset and um we see brad was like like you know four hours ago brad's like so i hear this FaceTime call from Justin and you're not actually upset. You said something wrong. And Michael's like, so you're not actually sorry. Cause they're talking about Emmy. He's like, yeah. And you're not actually sorry about saying that I made you feel unsafe. And the only reason you're saying it is because you're worried that how I'm going to like what I'm going to do to you and how I'm going to ruin your life. And I'm here to vent to you and tell you how I'm feeling because I feel like you would understand a hundred percent.

40:03Ben Mandelker: And Brad is upset. He's like, I would think that Lake would understand where I'm coming from, but I don't feel like Lake is condemning anything from Emmy said. It's just like disheartening.

40:10Ronnie Karam: And so Michael's just like, yeah he was expecting you to be like hey you can't say that and she was like well i wish you would have come to me um at the moment about the microaggression and michael says well it's uncomfortable in the moment and she's like well i know it's uncomfortable i face this every day myself like you face it every day like being a person of color in the city like i get it or in this world even like i get it and she says this is pissing her off because the whole conversation you know like she's this person that's always defended people of color and always defended her own people and she's always advocating and so she's like i understand him when it comes to that you know and i thought co-signing when you guys said something about it like co-signing when you called it a microaggression was was enough standing up enough yeah right and we see a flashback because

41:01Ben Mandelker: basically michael's in that confrontation says look what you said could come off as a microaggression and Lake goes, yeah. So Lake says, you know, like she should have said that, like she should have said that that situation made me feel uncomfortable and left it at that. Calling him scary is crazy. Michaels is basically saying, yeah, but you didn't say any of this to Emmy and that's a conversation Brad wants to have with her and like out of respect for Brad, like don't say anything, but I just wanted to let you know that this is how Brad was feeling.

41:29Ronnie Karam: So she's like, yeah, you know, she tells us about her family and her dad and how her dad made them read African-American heritage books. And she knows her shit. And she's like, and I don't want to be framed as that person who doesn't know my shit, okay? And that conversation makes me feel like I was framed. She starts crying. She's like, oh, my God, what the hell? And he's like, no, no, no, you don't need to get heated. I'm just having a calm conversation with you. I just want you to be more empathetic. And she's like, well, I can be there for you in that sense, but also want to be there for Emmy as a friend.

42:02Ronnie Karam: and you know that's why i was comforting her because my closeness lies with her and i don't talk to him every day i talk to her every day which is where i thought this was really an

42:12Ben Mandelker: interesting i thought it was a really interesting episode like how like the the pressures that that are on people in different communities of like the the the intimate bonds you have with a friend versus like the community bonds you have with other members of your community who you actually don't really like and like how do you navigate that because it's important to to deal with all of that. And I, so I just thought this was like, I thought this was like kind of riveting to watch, like how she was trying to have to grapple with these things, you know? And like, what, how, what does she do to different people?

42:43Ben Mandelker: So Brad is, you know, she's saying, Brad, he doesn't know who I am. He doesn't know who my family is. He doesn't know like how I was raised. I'm a very educated woman. I come from a very prominent black family that has come from the bottom to the top. He doesn't know me. Um, and he also doesn't know how much water I have to drink every single day gosh it's like a real lot of pressure for me yeah it's interesting because

43:08Ronnie Karam: she's like fuck that guy that guy's a fuck boy and she's my friend so i don't think she was you know like i don't think she's racist so that's why i'm standing up for her you know but then he's got a point this comment you know yes yeah she did say much yeah obviously like she yeah i'm saying that she's recognizing i think that lake is saying like i don't think she's at her heart she's a racist so that's why she was being lake thought she was standing up

43:37Ben Mandelker: or being an ally enough to brad but now she realizes that maybe she wasn't being but then she also feels like she's also resentful of being maybe being painted on tv as being someone who wouldn't be and so it's just i don't know i think it's a fascinating thing to to watch that and like it highlights many of the complications. And this is, what's cool is that like, this has been between this and Summer House over the past two weeks, there's been a lot of interesting discussions around all this stuff, which I think is, I think it's great. I think it's great to see these conversations happening and showing the nuance of racial situations and how like, it's just, it's not always cut and dry.

44:16Ben Mandelker: So now, I mean, who would have thought? Southern hospitality and Summer House of all places. I know, seriously. Seriously. But now we go to Republic and everyone is hot and sweaty. Okay, tonight we have a few bodies missing because Brad is like having one of his like, I don't know, like body by Brad things up the street. So like Maddie, Joe and Justin are over there and like they'll just be coming down and working later tonight. So TJ and Brad will not be working this evening. So, okay, everyone, let's get dressed up and ready to go. So now it's time to go. And now we go to the Body by Brad event where he's there and he's having Rod is there from Southern Charm and someone in Tommy Bahamas is there from Charleston.

44:59Ronnie Karam: And 50 other people in Tommy Bahamas and a lot of other people in flip flops. And it's at Lamar's. So Brad comes out and gives a speech and he's talking about his personal training company and he wanted to do more. and his girlfriend gave him the idea like, hey, why don't you go on tour? So now Body by Brad is going on tour. What? What is that? I guess like exercise classes that you just go sign up for. I remember in the 80s, my mom was like an aerobics star and we would go to like the civic center for like these huge aerobics. I guess they were conventions and there were these huge audiences and it would be like 50 ladies up there doing an aerobics routine.

45:44Ronnie Karam: and everyone in the audience was like, yes, yes, get those ankles up, girl. And it was the craziest thing I've ever seen. I wonder if it's going to be like that.

45:52Ben Mandelker: I think it will be. Like Beachbody still sends like their trainers around. They do go to malls or they do like an outdoor activation or something like that. Yeah, it still happens. This shit happens all the time. So keep an eye out for Body by Bread. Everyone. The show. The show. Everyone get excited. Lift it.

46:09Ronnie Karam: Clench those buttocks, people. Yes.

46:13Ben Mandelker: Traveling.

46:16Ben Mandelker: So anyway, Mia arrives and almost trips, or she does trip and Brad's like, whoa, you thought you ate, you thought you ate. So then Justin's like, wow. So Mia rain checked our date and then ultimately just ended up canceling it altogether. But like, as I put the puzzle pieces together, my mind like went right back to Jordan. It's like, what sort of puzzle piece? Was this like a two piece puzzle piece?

46:42Ronnie Karam: don't try and play scrabble against this guy he'll get you and so we see a flashback to two days ago where Jordan's like you can do whatever you want just don't hook up with anyone okay don't hook up with anyone I know like and don't hook up with Mia that's all I ask doodly dood so I think it might have something to do with Jordan she literally said her name sir

47:06Ben Mandelker: I'm putting the puzzle pieces together but Mia canceling her date only makes me want her more. So challenge accepted. So Mia's like, yeah, Justin, beautiful young man, but I don't want to be juggled with other girls. Is that so crazy? Okay. All I ask is for someone to respect my cardboard cutout. That's it.

47:28Ronnie Karam: So Brad's like, yeah, I heard bits and pieces about this at the girls' night, and it wasn't good. And TJ's like, well, I texted Grace the next morning, and I said, hey, are you good? And her text back was, I'll deal with the consequences.

47:41Ben Mandelker: Okay, so she knows that she fucked up. Honestly, I have a soft spot for Grace Lily, but she was one of my very first clients, and we see a flashback to season one of them working out. And it's like, yeah, I'm sad that she's not here, but whatever's going on in Grace's life, I just want her to take time that she needs to get herself together.

47:58Ronnie Karam: So Brad is giving a speech, and Joe's watching him, and he's like, you know, I'm almost 30, and Brad's 28. But in a lot of ways, I look up to him, because he's a hustler. He gets up, he wakes up before noon, It's crazy. I see all these people younger than me, and they're like, more ahead of me in life. Like, age shouldn't matter, but it matters, you know? Like, I'm turning 30, my bump it's turning six. Like, I gotta get my shit together.

48:23Ben Mandelker: How I'm going to support you is I'm gonna set up the after party for you, and like, we're gonna get to work, okay? That's like, cool. Like, yeah, because I want to work so that you guys can celebrate, but like, I was not gonna miss that, just so you know. It's like, yeah, it's fine, it's okay. I wasn't going to miss this. You're here, so we see that you're here. I wasn't going to miss this at all, though, just so you know. Okay, we get it.

48:45Ronnie Karam: We get it. So then we go back to Republic, and Emmy is talking to Justin and asking about Brad's event. And he goes, oh, it was good. It was packed. She goes, yeah, well, the capacity is like 93 people. So, yeah, I'm sure it was packed. Everyone just ignores her. She's like, obviously, you just made up with him two hours ago, Emmy. Jesus.

49:08Ben Mandelker: So then Lake pulls Brad. She's like, hey, do you want to talk, Brad? He's like, yeah, but I want my bottles first. She's like, okay. She's saying how she didn't sleep last night. And she has been only thinking about this because it's so important. And she doesn't know what she's going to say, but she's going to speak with her heart. So Michael's like, okay, well, you know, so Brad, I talked to her yesterday. And she like came over and she just like wants to talk to you and clear it out. So it's like, okay, well, we'll see. So they go to the back to have a conversation. and um lake is michael leaves them alone he's like okay you guys don't need any moderation fine

49:44Ronnie Karam: goodbye good luck i love y 'all lake is like i just wanted to pull you for a conversation because well i don't think we should even be having to have this conversation okay brad just let her jesus it's hard enough for her my god and she's like okay so i was given an outline of what you and michael's talked about and i feel really strongly about that conversation and he's like which part And she said the microaggressions and how you feel like I should have defended you. And she says, as a black woman, I do understand. And I wanted to address it to you because I know how important it is. I face it every day.

50:16Ronnie Karam: And I've always defended and protect and loved all the black men in my life. And he's like, but it doesn't feel like it. And then Joe comes in. He's like, oh, oh, hey, guys. And they just look at him like, hello, do you see us having a scene? And he's like, yeah, but guys, it's like bump it time. Sorry. It's like the time of my shift where I like calm and I bump it. So I'm just going to fix my bump it. God damn it. He goes to the mirror. He's like, God damn it. You look good. Hey, you look like you could use a car wash. Fuck yeah. Short shorts. Yeah, you better fucking do it. You're going to do this before you're 31.

50:47Ronnie Karam: Got it, bitch? That's right. Okay, guys, I'm done. I'm back to work. All right. You look good too. You look good too, guys. You look good too.

50:56Ben Mandelker: So the lake goes, I am never, ever in a million years ever going to defend a microaggression. And whenever we had that group conversation at the table at Folly, Emmy made that comment. Michael said that can come off as a microaggression. I co-signed with him, but I was also comforting her. But me comforting her does not discredit your feelings towards that at all because it did not. And I'm sorry that you felt that way. I truly am. From the deepest pits of my heart, I am. And Lake says my brothers, my father, my grandfather, my uncles are all men that look like Brad. And so when Emmy says something like because you're scary, I felt it it makes me feel some type of way so I feel Brad on that and she tells him I don't think

51:37Ronnie Karam: you would hurt Emmy ever and he goes I'm not gonna hurt anyone I'm not gonna hurt any woman she says I know I know and so then the door opens again and uh it's Emmy and she's like whoa whoa whoa whoa she puts her both her hands up she's like okay I'm out of here I'm out of here

51:55Ben Mandelker: she says amazing thing I feel like it's gonna become a gif of her being like no no no just disappearing behind the door. So then, after she leaves the door, after she leaves, she runs into Ella, who's another server, and she's like, what's going on with Lake? And Ella's like, well, where is she? She's on break. And Ella's like, oh, I know she's talking to Brad, right? I think it's something about a microaggression that she's defending you. I guess he tried to say that what you said to him was a microaggression. She goes, what? What? I said on her? And she's like, yeah, what you said. She goes, what did I say about him?

52:28Ronnie Karam: awesome how you were scared emmy oh my god emmy did you not listen to one thing so and this is all being caught by a camera way in the back of the kitchen like behind the ice machine and so i don't even think they know they're being recorded and she's like yeah you said you were scared of him and she goes oh a microaggression are you fucking on crack right now she's like that's crazy i mean so brad is like fucking i mean don't you do you remember that they all confronted you

52:57Ben Mandelker: they circled you they circled around you and said you just had a microaggression do you remember

53:01Ronnie Karam: that why hyperventilating like restart your brain like hello so back to bradden lake she's like uh he says i don't think emmy's racist but she's coming across and like he's like look i wouldn't be friends with her if i thought she was racist and he goes yeah but like even if you completely remove race from it and someone apologizes to you and then later you hear that they said i'm only apologizing because i'm worried what they're going to do to me like it's like okay that's a stab in the back you know and addressing that's very important and i'm on your side when it comes to this and that's why i wanted to come to you and apologize and brad's like i appreciate the apology but this is also coming on the heels like he says when in the example that he just gave like remove race from it and if somebody apologized to you but said they don't want you to ruin their life as you mentioned earlier brad you did just admit to lying about yeah someone's like ruining someone's relationship out of revenge, you know?

53:55Ben Mandelker: Yeah, you did. So Brad is like, this is a side of Lake that I've never seen before. Beyond the bubbly, fun, easygoing personality, there's a lot of depth there. I needed to hear her out of her mouth saying, hey, I got you. And I understand you. I'm with you. It means the world to me. I love, this is such a guy thing. It's like, oh, if I actually decided to have a conversation with a girl I was interested at one point, I would discover that she actually has many facets and many nuances. Wow, who knew?

54:20Ronnie Karam: well it's also she came in and completely agreed with everything i said and was like one long apology and being just being like okay okay so i'm yeah you get it right like i'm with you right right and it's like yeah she's really deep lake is like when it comes to emmy i will take it upon

54:36Ben Mandelker: myself to educate her on this subject he's like no you don't have to talk to her because it shouldn't be by the way up to lake to have to do this yeah um so they have like amicable fist bump but then outside. Emmy, they were just, God, Emmy's gonna, it's gonna be so bad for Emmy. We just can see this is a disaster. It's already so bad for Emmy. I mean, my God, you're a dummy. Jesus. So Emmy's like, oh, Justin, Justin, Brad is like going after Lake in the back. He's like, right now, he's like, yeah, Brad's trying to say I'm a fucking racist. And Justin goes, what you said to him? She's like, yeah.

55:09Ben Mandelker: And Justin goes, no, well, you were scared of how he was going to act, and he took it as a microaggression. He goes, yeah, because he texted me. Lower your fucking voice. You're dead to me too, bitch like fucking grow fucking grow man saying that to me justin's like i feel like emmy is taking the low road in the situation and being competitive about it and i feel like she's minimizing brad's experience and all you need to do to make it right is just tell brad hopefully like like that just say it wasn't your intention but i think the problem is i think emmy doesn't

55:37Ronnie Karam: know what a microaggression is oh my god and this is the best part of the episode because they start playing clown music and so they've got this music like boom boom boom boom playing under emmy and she's like yes yeah i mean i know what a microaggression is i mean yeah yeah of course i do okay okay microaggression microaggression is when you um you make a micro like a little um like a tiny like little it's not little but it's like smaller than little okay like and so like you make like um like like an assumption like a subjective assumption i said that was like three syllable wrote two words in a row three syllables and like you know it's like based off so many you know you know like it's like um um like uh women women are uh like women are bad drivers yeah so yeah so basically yeah like microaggressions they're like tiny subjective like things and they're more like they're more so made towards people that like you don't know

56:28Ben Mandelker: so nailed it remember like micro machines those cars they're like really small cars it's like if you if you drive them really fast that's like a microaggression so yeah i i wasn't even playing

56:38Ronnie Karam: with cars it was so funny she has no idea and the music's like but it's like microaggression that's like fucking crazy like i can't believe they're saying that like what

56:52Ben Mandelker: justin goes but that's his experience because i don't want to talk about it i don't i know i want to get the fuck out of here. I want to get the fuck out of here.

57:02Ronnie Karam: Storms out. She storms out of the restaurant yet again.

57:07Ben Mandelker: Bless her heart. Well, everyone. Jesus. What an interesting episode. Thanks, everyone, for being here. We adore you. And we'll catch you on the next episode of Watch What Crappens. Bye. Bye. Watch What Crappens would like to thank its premium sponsor. Ain't no thing like Alison King. Our way is the Amber way. It's the Foster and the Furious. It's Amanda Foster. It's Always Automatic with Ashley Otto. Put your hands together for Carly Clapp. Get on the right foot with Chrissy Offutt.

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