#3404 Summer House S10E19 Part 1: How The West Was Spun

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1:29Ben Mandelker: hello and welcome to watch what crappens a podcast about all that crap on bravo that we love to watch so much i'm ben mandelker and joining me today on this very very very very special summer house episode it's ronnie carham hi ronnie well hello how are you i'm fabulous we just had a great morning because we just recorded um uh gandhi's podcast over over with the elvis rand show so keep an eye and ear out for that when that hits the airwaves we'll let you know we talked bravo and all that stuff so thanks gandhi for having having us on the show that's a good time it was a super fun time and uh today it's here the final third and final part of the reunion summer house reunion but not the end of the season apparently not the end of the summer

2:13Ronnie Karam: house season the summer house continues on never over they're gonna capitalize on this as much as

2:19Ben Mandelker: they can every last drop well guess what we're also gonna capitalize off of it by recording an episode today uh please join us over on patreon for ad-free listening also check out uh read what crap ends that ronnie writes basically a blog recap of the week that was on crap ends also video So this can be my last day here in the ACAST studio. I'm so sad. Back to my childhood bedroom tomorrow. And then after that.

2:47Ronnie Karam: Ben takes too many snacks. He's been let go from the ACAST family.

2:51Ben Mandelker: I have been taking their snacks. I'm just kidding.

2:56Ronnie Karam: I have to. I literally go home with a bag of shit every day.

2:59Ben Mandelker: Well, we learned of a new snack yesterday, courtesy of their green room over here, which I had never had, which is like a Nutella bar thing. It's kind of like this crispy, wafery thing with like mounds of Nutella on the inside. It was very good. It's no Kinder Bueno.

3:13Ronnie Karam: It was very similar to that, actually. It was. It's even shaped the same and like separated.

3:18Ben Mandelker: Yeah. I got Ronnie a Kinder Bueno. Did you like it? Very good. Did you like it? Yeah. Yeah. I hope I didn't overhype it. Did I overhype it? No, it was great. No, it was fantastic. Please like it. Please.

3:26Ronnie Karam: I was eating that, the other thing, some peanut butter crackers. Yeah. I had every snack in here. Yeah. Little Oreo things. It's a lifetime of snacks. Chickpeas. there were chickpeas we just took them on the way out there was chickpeas and pita bread

3:40Ben Mandelker: tomorrow we'll take that too i really relocate back up to my parents tomorrow where when i ask for a snack it'll be my dad saying well we have some asparagus in the fridge uh your mother made

3:52Ronnie Karam: some chicken sorry about your heart issues but why do i have to suffer okay until i've got a stint you better get me some fucking pizza in this house or some candy or something my parents are

4:03Ben Mandelker: I've just never been snack people. So it's like a snack desert up there. That's disgusting. That's child abuse. It's like, well, we have some leftover. That is elder child abuse. It's always like, well, we have a bowl of this. Anyway, Summer House, let's just get right into it. Summer House.

4:21Ronnie Karam: So here we are, season 10, episode 19, reunion part three. I'm ready for this to end. Enough. End it. It's enough. Okay. I've had it. Especially if you're not going to ask all the questions. Where's Mija? Bring out Mija. I mean, you've got this girl who steals tails off of horses to make ties off of them. She's clearly a crazy person. And you've got her, like, calling in on the break. No, I need Mija here in horse hair. I want her in a dress made out of horse hair. And then I want to call Peeta on her ass while she's sitting up there crying about Wes being mean to her. What are you doing? Why are you spending three hours of our life and not bringing me Mija?

5:00Ronnie Karam: Well, great news, Ronnie.

5:02Ben Mandelker: she's on next week in their special like interview

5:05Ronnie Karam: you don't get to have a bonus episode we've been screwed over by bonus episodes a lot

5:10Ben Mandelker: I feel like well I think we all also know that the episodes that air after a reunion are almost never good they just aren't yeah the bonuses right yeah they're always this is cobbled

5:20Ronnie Karam: together like crap things you haven't seen from the season yeah but this one I guess they're interviewing them right they're interviewing each other

5:26Ben Mandelker: like it's interview magazine I don't know I have low low expectations for it I think it's just going to be they're squeezing out one last like i think that's why you're watching too

5:33Ronnie Karam: much amanda your expectations have just more yeah zero expectations yeah i actually like this episode

5:40Ben Mandelker: quite a bit i loved lindsey's line of questioning towards the end i love that she was great i love that as well i i really i i i was i actually was dumbfounded by this episode i was dumbfounded by how bad wes and amanda were at this and that's crazy considering we've already had two episodes them being bad at it but watching to say what but west what surprised you there i thought west was uh he was like a politician or something i just i just couldn't believe one bad answer after another just terrible and i really loved the moment when andy's like what's wrong with you you see everyone out here is like crying you're not even feeling anything and you know the beta blockers thing that'll happen later but sierra registered nurse uh she went on to threads and was like yeah beta Blockers don't stop you from crying.

6:24Ben Mandelker: They reduce your adrenaline, but they don't stop you from crying. Well, they don't stop your feelings. Yeah, they don't block your feelings, apparently.

6:31Ronnie Karam: I mean, what's the point? Pizza does. Yeah. You all are on the wrong dregs. I've been telling you for years. Oh, just kidding. But yeah, there was a lot of discussion on beta blocker and stuff like that. I think beta blockers are getting too much credit in this episode. I think these two people did a horrible thing, and they don't care. They don't care. They wouldn't care if they were drugged. Their answers are, what? Like Amanda's like, what? So I should, I should, I'm in trouble because I had a feeling. Sorry, I had a feeling. You know, what if, what if you went to a courtroom and somebody ran somebody over and they're like, what?

7:07Ronnie Karam: I mean, I didn't like them. I had a feeling I ran them over. Yeah. There doesn't seem to be. That's not how it works. You know, you're in trouble for the action, not how you were feeling during it, for Christ's sake.

7:16Ben Mandelker: It's like, there's no introspection. That's something that's difficult. and then when challenged to have the introspection, what we get are these stupid answers like, after this, I'm going to have a lot of thinking to do. Yeah, I'll think about it later. I don't know if you've ever really used that muscle, but I don't like the, I'm going to think about this. I'm going to really, I'm going to ask myself some tough questions. You should have been asking yourself the tough questions. That's what's so, like,

7:42Ronnie Karam: Well, it's also just the TikTok-alization of people because they've learned all this therapy speak from their TikTok. And so she's like, you know what? I hear you. And you've given me something to think about. Like, is this fucking HR? I don't know. What are you talking about? You did want to open your bag and give me back all the peanut butter crackers you stole out of the break room because I know you did it. I don't want you to think about it later. I want you to give me back my peanut butter crackers.

8:07Ben Mandelker: It's such a canned response. And it also, like, gives away nothing. It's like, why did you do this? Like, do you understand how this, like, could be very hurtful to Sierra, up for instance like a question like that instead of saying like i don't think i really realized that i think i started going down this journey and i think i was just being so incredibly selfish and i i'm realizing the magnitude and the worst part is knowing how i should have known all along the magnitude and like i i feel like an idiot whatever like like there should have been like a falling on the sword but instead it was like well i have a lot to think about now like what it's such a generic like i don't want to answer to this right now but i'm gonna think about it in the future

8:47Ronnie Karam: and maybe i'll answer about it by the way just wanted you to know i hear you i hear you it's

8:53Ben Mandelker: like so hey when you murdered that person do you have any contrition wow we'll have a lot to think about it's like what yeah no that's not enough it's not enough ma 'am but they don't even care

9:05Ronnie Karam: they you know their answers were both like well we felt something and we did it and it's very typical you know it's a very typical answer from people who do shit like this and i would have

9:14Ben Mandelker: liked it actually when they were asked many times was it worth it was it worth it i would have liked them to actually just said yes i think they should have said yes because if they say no then you look like a jackass and like they clearly want to keep on trying this out whether we agree with it or not

9:29Ronnie Karam: so stand in it say that's what you know that's my opinion the whole time is if you're going to do something like this i would rather them come out on the reunion and be like listen i'm sorry we're hurt your all's feelings. But Sierra, you know, we weren't together. And I thought I made very clear during the season, we weren't together, even though he didn't. I mean, there would be an argument. I'm just saying if they were going to do this, right, it would be like, listen, I thought we were just going to be friends again. Yes, it's tacky to be dating someone that you were friends with, but we all live in a house together.

9:59Ronnie Karam: We naturally had feelings for each other. Kyle, you're an asshole to your wife. You don't have a leg to stand on. And that's it. We fell in love. and I'm not apologizing to you. I'm not apologizing to you. I'm in love with this. And Amanda to just be like, Kyle sucks as a husband. CR, I'm really sorry this hurt your feelings. You know, please forgive me, but I love this man. Something like, you know, like they say on Love Island, like stand on business. Now I'm not saying any of those arguments would have been correct. I still would have been sitting here bitching at these people for being monsters.

10:27Ronnie Karam: But like to do this whole wussy thing of like, I hear you. I'm going to think about it and I'm just a good person who got lost on the way. no just be like i'm a shitty person wanted to that guy i off off y 'all go do something else

10:41Ben Mandelker: i think i would say i think the way right way to say it is you know what when we start first started feeling things i think you know i did the cowardly thing i just sort of followed it and i didn't have the tough conversation of calling you sierra and being like i'm feeling something weird feeling something for wes i want to talk through to you about whatever i did not put you first i was completely selfish and i admit that and i really regret it i'm like embarrassed by it i'm ashamed it was like probably the worst thing i've ever did but that being said i'm in this i'm in this relationship now when you ask me is was it worth it i have to say yes because it's always gonna be worth it for me to follow my gut my heart on something like this and i'm following my heart and i know it may come at the cost of friendships and i know it may not work out but you know it's better to have loved and lost than to have never i mean honestly you know and again we would

11:28Ronnie Karam: still be arguing with that argument. We'd still be like, screw you. Sierra hasn't had to run you over with her car. You know, we'd still be saying all that stuff. But at least give us something. I mean, they're just such dishrags, the both of these. And that's how I know that relationship has a chance. Because from waiting table, and I've said this a long time, from waiting tables for so long, you really see the relationships at work. And it is boring people with nothing to say. It is the people who sit there on their phones and don't pay attention to each other. Or when you do hear them talk, they're like, did you figure out the wordle?

12:01Ronnie Karam: You know? Because they're content in their presence. Basic ass bitches. That's who should be. And that's these two, I think.

12:07Ben Mandelker: Because they don't have any voids to fill. They have filled their voids with each other. And they are secure and happy in their relationship where they know they can sit at the same table. And they could focus on their wordle. Because they know, like, that love is so pure and true. And so secure.

12:25Ronnie Karam: Well, that's a different way than I'm looking at. I'm like, those are just boring people. It's like two hot people will naturally end up together for a while. And two very boring people with not a lot on their minds are going to be fine with each other because they're not thinking of a lot of things.

12:40Ben Mandelker: Well, because you know what? They don't have to think about if the other person's cheating. They don't have to think about, like, does this person love me? Because they're too boring to cheat. Well, and it's like, it's a beautiful boring. It's a beautiful boring because. Although we're talking about two people who did just kind of. we are talking about two people who are boring and cheated yeah but um i think uh you're i love

12:59Ronnie Karam: that you're trying to shoehorn real romance into what i'm saying i'm like boring as people and you're like these are perfect couples i really understand no i but i think you guys spend a lot

13:08Ben Mandelker: of time on the phone because you're making you're making a funny joke about you know people at the restaurant who just sit there and they're both like on their phone whatever and that's like those relationships and i'm saying it's a joke but i actually think there's truth to it i think that there's like truth to like people who are like their relationship is, is, is placid. And so that doesn't have to be a, and I think, I think there really is true to that. I think there's actually something really lovely when you see like, like an older couple just sitting, both reading the newspaper together at a table, which by the way, all right,

13:41Ronnie Karam: but we're talking about Western Amanda now. You're like, wow, what these great relationships. No, I'm talking about Wes and Amanda just being boring.

13:47Ben Mandelker: And that's why they're, yeah, they're, they're just stupid. And you know what? Um, i also another thing i did not like in this reunion is that you know amanda has been like very robotic everyone's like she drugged up or whatever but she is like she is bearing the brunt of all this and then she has a moment with kyle with her hugging and like time after time again like the moment that like west is like not like like in the spotlight he doesn't give a he doesn't give a what she's going through he's like on his phone he's laughing he's smiling and she's she's like i wouldn't say that she's going through it but like he is not very present with her i don't think i i just think that he's a shitty boyfriend he's out to lunch he's out with everybody at all

14:26Ronnie Karam: times he barely paying attention to himself i think he actually loves all this i think he loves going on his podcast and talking about it every second of the fucking day i think he loves all the attention that he's getting from it he seems to be really enjoying it where he's really going right in this is he's just he's been in trouble so many times as a fuck boy he knows all the answers which are just, sorry, whoops, didn't mean it. I'll think about that. I got you. I hear you. Whoops, maybe could have done that better. And then just lets it all roll over. Whereas Amanda is like, what? So I can't be in love?

14:59Ronnie Karam: What? So good things can't happen to me too? Like she's arguing in a way that's trying to victimize herself and then she's pulling the blonde lady tears, sorry, but she's pulling the victim tears and running to the bathroom. And Lindsay said she was in there for over an hour. That's crazy. Like you've already done all of this. Now you're going to make me wait. Yeah. Are you serious? So she's, she's doing all this stuff to victimize herself. So while she is taking the brunt of it, she's also taking the brunt of it because she's just not as, I mean, I hate to say as smart as West, but West is really, he's had to apologize so many times in his life.

15:37Ronnie Karam: He's just very well-practiced. He's it's all bullshit. He doesn't care. and you can't really get him because all he's going to say is my bad. He's going to say my bad. And yeah, I see you. It's time for a commercial. It's time for a Crappins commercial.

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16:03Ronnie Karam: It's called age man. Okay. It's age.

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18:47Ben Mandelker: And free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash crappins. Don't forget to use our link so they know that we sent you. Well, let's get into it. Let's get into the actual recap. So when we come back, Jesse has an announcement. He says, I'm thinking about chopping my hair off for the summer. And Mia's like, yeah, let's talk before we do that.

19:08Ronnie Karam: Really? Because I'm thinking of chopping my ears off before this summer. Stupid songs.

19:14Ben Mandelker: And just me Don't be mean to his music He puts his heart and soul into that mid-tempo song That gets played in nail salons In Long Island

19:23Ronnie Karam: Yeah, okay, so They're ready for everybody, but Sierra's still on the FaceTime With Mija, and she's like, stay by your phone I'm gonna be texting you, and I'll call you You know, and if I need anything

19:34Ben Mandelker: She's like, okay, bye They sound like they're anarchists They sound like they're in the beginning of one battle after another Like, okay, we're gonna break it into this bank

19:41Ronnie Karam: Stay by your phone Yeah. Meanwhile, you hear a horse like, Ow! She's like, Shut up, horse! Cutting all the hair off the horse. So people come back out to the couches, and Bailey is like, Um, Amanda, you hanging in there? She's like, No! She's like, Come sit with me. Gosh, I really genuinely worry about you so much. You're like a salmon salad sitting on a table during a breakup at Sweet Greens.

20:07Ben Mandelker: Just sitting there, quietly going rancid in the room temperature.

20:10Ronnie Karam: I know you're about to be thrown around in... made fun of and crashed to the ground. You okay? And she's like, oh, no, I appreciate that. And I, like, appreciate that, like, you're saying it and also that you texted me that. So Amanda's getting out there, I think, on camera. Like, see? Yeah. People support me.

20:30Ben Mandelker: But Bailey's also, like, blink twice if you need me to get you out of this relationship. I think Bailey sees Amanda as, like, a victim to Wes manipulations and vulnerable and is kind of like, help me. help you right now you know she's i do not trust him at all because well wait first because a man

20:47Ronnie Karam: that she's that's a response i'm sorry to read every single line but amanda's such a dope she's like well maybe i'm naive but like i feel like we've had a lot of conversations him and i that like made me feel secure and you're like you guys just don't get it yeah no and then she's after

21:05Ben Mandelker: bailey says that she doesn't trust them amanda's like and that's okay and maybe this will be a huge mistake and I'll wake up one day and realize it but yeah it's like hard to sit on the stage and try to explain myself when no one's gonna listen well you don't don't blame everyone else speak up say your piece stand in this stupid relationship that you're in like do I understand why you've taken no lessons from your relationship with Kyle Cook I don't but as long as you've decided you want to repeat your pattern then like like stand in it well also it's not that people

21:38Ronnie Karam: aren't listening to you, Amanda. It's that they listen to you and your answer suck. Yeah. They asked you why you did it and you're like, because I mean, I deserve something too. Like what? I'm just not supposed to act on my feelings. Your answer sucks. They heard it. They just don't agree with it.

21:53Ben Mandelker: It's just, yeah. And then she's also saying nothing half the time. Yeah. So now there's a moment with Carl and Lindsay. Carl's like, you're unbelievable. And Lindsay's like, really? She's like, yeah. Oh, nice girl. Yeah, it's fun to watch. Whoa. I got a hug. Come on. Old time sick. Igloo hug. Come on, bro. Like, yeah.

22:14Ronnie Karam: So then, you know, everyone's just checking with each other as they come back to the stage. And they're talking about how Lindsay's like, oh, my God, Jesse, your legs are longer. But, like, Carl's torso is longer. So, you know, just tall people, tall people issues.

22:31Ben Mandelker: Observations. You know, one thing you can never discredit Summer House for is their lack of observations. yeah um by the way uh we were hanging out with an old queen of the bar last night who was at the finale party at summer house and she said yes i didn't hear this happened after you left uh she said uh she saw carl and lindsey go into the igloo and they were there for over an hour it was a very long maybe not over an hour but a very very long time the conversation looked like it was like five minutes on screen but it was a very long conversation oh there's a lot of it was

23:06Ronnie Karam: a full hour of Carl going, oh, yeah, I hear you. I see you. And thanks so much for the lessons. All right. So there you go, everyone. A timing update on the Igloo conversation. So Andy gets his cards and stuff, and he's like, oh my God, is this the end of the show? Okay, okay. It's over soon, right? Okay. Hi, ladies. Anybody get new boobs?

23:32Ben Mandelker: Welcome back to the Summer of Season 10 reunion. We still have a lot to discuss. Some would say too much. I'm exhausted. I just want to go back to my home. I want to leave it all on the table for today so that we can move forward. However feels right. Oh, well, you guys all moving forward. Well, okay. So maybe you'll work towards healing or choose a step away from certain friendships, whatever. Okay. Just answer some question guys. I can't deal with this anymore.

23:58Ronnie Karam: Yeah. So now the question is like how this began. So, Wes, you were a steady support for Amanda all summer. When did that start to feel like more than just friendship? And he's like, well, we started to like, I started going out like February, March with like a lot of my friends and like having fun. And then like, like we have mutual friends. And yeah, I think like we're having fun. I saw like a different side of Amanda that I didn't see prize. and like I took a like kind of person personies you know like I guess because I was like ringing around my friends and then I mean I know it sounds like so black and white but like it was like so nice to like see Amanda like happy you know and like you know when did you fuck Amanda the first time why is this taking five hours were you fucking Amanda in the summer yes or no why are you pretending getting your storyline oh yeah we just started hanging out in February we know that's a lie already

25:01Ben Mandelker: okay it was a treat for me to see amanda happy i mean have you never seen a woman happy before

25:08Ronnie Karam: that's not amanda well that's true we've been watching this show 10 years i don't know how many times have we even seen amanda be happy i know no amanda what about you was there a specific

25:19Ben Mandelker: moment when your feelings for west glitch because um not necessarily we just like there was like a night where i don't know he sort of like said something and i was like am i crazy like is there something here and i feel like all the emotion just came like flooding in and like wasn't like a slow burn or like it just like built up to it and it just like kind of came flooding in all at once and like wasn't something that was like top of mind i was like thanks for all that specificity just say where you were what happened was it raining was it sunny what did he say to you we need to like get like can we get like a scene set up here not just like oh like he said this and

25:53Ronnie Karam: that and he's like or how about the truth i'm just in a terrible marriage i knew it sucked i'm in a I'm in a house with this guy all summer long. He's supporting me against my husband. He's comforting me when my husband is giving me shit. And I started to fall for the guy. It was like the support that I wanted from a man that I was never getting from a man. And finally, I got it. We all saw it. Why don't you just say the truth? She's like, no, it was like we played darts. And then like we went out.

26:24Ben Mandelker: Also, like one thing that I feel like is sort of touched on in this reunion, but not really, is that like you know west is in his mind it's not an exclusive relationship with me whatever but still like you've he's clearly starting to develop feelings for amanda why do you keep inviting her out like don't you ever say to yourself oh this is like something's going on i really shouldn't cross this boundary right i mean this is an ongoing question why did either of them cross the boundary but like there were just so many off ramps to this highway that they just didn't take they were like we want to see where this highway ends we want to find out what

26:58Ronnie Karam: mountain this highway they were already fucking and he was cheating on amanda with miha like that's it yeah that's that's the only thing i'll believe or cheating on amanda with miha or cheating on miha with amanda however you want to look at it he's just banging whoever he has because whoever he cans because he is a boy on bravo and he has the bravo ass pass someone asked what the bravo ass passes this is when mediocre men get onto bravo and no matter what bar they go into because the viewership for bravo is like 90 women they get ass wherever they go we've seen it in action with a lot of these guys women literally walk up while you're talking to them and just hand them their number you know and it happens over with all with with a good number of them that we've hung out with so that's called the bravo ass pass and he's relying on it west is relying on

27:46Ben Mandelker: it and he knows this reunion he's like let me just get through this harsh day and then i've got the ass pass because we've seen so many people you know like at the peak of scandaval i was like boo tom zanibal but boo tom zanibal although i did go see his cover band play so people

28:04Ronnie Karam: they're showing the videos of this and there's like hundreds of ladies like oh my god yeah so

28:09Ben Mandelker: like yeah ass pass trumps all and he is he's just banking on it because men or women like either way

28:18Ronnie Karam: there's just a percentage of us that don't care if you're terrible. You're on TV and we'll still fuck you. So Wes, so Andy's like, okay, so were you having an affair this summer? And they're like, absolutely not, in unison. And Wes is like, because I was like, lied to people, I don't know, like, in this room? I mean, I recognize, like, I have Polly, you know, like, give the SARS. I like to give the SARS to people. Like, I know why you wouldn't believe much, but it's true. You know, Jesse's like, yeah, but not only did you lie, you like made us feel crazy. And then Jesse starts crying. Why is Jesse crying?

28:59Ronnie Karam: I mean, come on.

29:00Ben Mandelker: Come on. He's an artist, okay?

29:04Ronnie Karam: Stop it. He's a sensitive artist. Jesse crying. And Lindsay's like, it's called gaslighting. And Andy goes, it's not gaslighting. What are you guys talking about? Why does nobody understand this word? It's like, it is Andy. isn't this where andy said it's not oh no that was on southern hospitality where he's like guys that's not gaslighting like yes it is and he's like okay okay sorry i missed my show messed my

29:26Ben Mandelker: shows up to be coming in the future so that sierra um she's like yeah you guys tricked us like you were playing games on instagram and jesse's like like yeah he also said holy freak to her march on a post that she posted and there was a picture of sierra on instagram and Wes commented because like Sierra looking amazing. She's like a bikini photo or something like that. And Wes commented, holy frick, which, hmm. And Wes goes, yeah, I shouldn't have done that. It's like, yeah. You think that's like ongoing theme here. So Sierra's like, yeah, you guys are so fucking calculated. Why would we trust what you have to say?

30:01Little Mia and Watch App is live.

30:03Ben Mandelker: I asked you if you thought something happened between Wes and Amanda this summer. So like, what were you seeing or hearing? and she's like well it's just like in the last few episodes like yeah just like watching for example when Kyle and Carl got into that fight. Hold me back bro. Hold me back. Hold me back. Get taller stupid. Why don't you get more hands on? Shut up. So she's like yeah um we're like you were in the kitchen with us and you were calm and collected and cool as a cucumber and the moment that like Wes came back and like came into the house you walk towards him and then all of a sudden you start crying in Wes hand and Wes arms she's like I thought that was weird.

30:37Ben Mandelker: Yeah

30:37Ronnie Karam: And she was like, oh, my God, when you came and pulled your chair up next to me, I love you. And he's, like, kissing her forehead. Yeah. And she's like, yeah. And someone, Amanda, someone tries to interrupt. And Mia's like, I'm not done. And Wes is like, oh, gotcha. My bad. I hear you. And she's like, another time, Amanda, you run outside to talk to Kyle. And Wes, you come right behind her and you're grabbing her, like, right under her boob. Like, that's not normal. like you wouldn't touch me like that and west's like um okay he's like i just don't think you

31:13Ben Mandelker: would ever grab me like that she's like um okay uh okay and and she's like and you haven't grabbed lindsey like that he is not in fact on that so west is like i think if you guys thought something weird was going on last summer it would have been flagged well the thing is this what we've learned from you is that like things don't happen logically like the logical thing would be oh wait a second like we actually should not act on these feelings but you guys are not acting

31:38Ronnie Karam: logically are you well it wasn't flagged because you're doing the old distract like you're robbing a bank you know like you're distracting with one thing so we're looking at that and not looking at this thing that's like obvious and right in front of our eyes like you were distracting us by making everybody think that you're still into sierra and so worried about sierra and you want to get back together with sierra and i have a crush on sierra will sierra forgive me you're distracting us with that. So we're not even paying attention to you rubbing all up against Amanda and kissing her all over the place.

32:05Ben Mandelker: Even so, the reason why it was not flagged is because the idea that you two would have any sort of romantic connection is so ludicrous and so far-fetched because everyone knows that how hurtful it would be to Sierra and also to other people like Kyle, et cetera, that it was unfathomable that he would be touching you in a romantic way because no one would think that you two would do something as obnoxious as this and that's why this is a scandal yeah

32:35Ronnie Karam: so um amanda uh me is like um no i don't think it would have been flagged because we looked at amanda like this victim and we thought you would never do that you know so and lindsey's like i'm a lot of perfect guys what did you have a crush on her it was a perfect guys inspector poirot just makes me laugh every i don't know why everything she says just makes me laugh it was the apartment guys it was your groucho marks classes basically the murderer was west did you have a crush on her and west like no but like like definitely like you know we got way closer like after all these moments that were like inties you know like like you know like she was bathroom crying like nothing turns on a guy more than like a girl crying in the

33:26Ben Mandelker: bathroom because her husband was mean to her amanda did you have a crush on him no i was dealing i was like so caught up and lost in my own marriage and the fallout of it it's just like so easy to watch that through a different lens and see what you guys want to see but you guys all lived in the same house and that's not what was happening at all this summer like that's like what's so frustrating i'm like not a fucking cheater i'm not gonna step out on kyle i'm not I'm not going to do things that are inappropriate. I've been cheated on. I've been hurt. I was. I'm like, but Wes was with me. And also like, you don't have to be a cheater for this to be a shitty thing to do.

33:58Ronnie Karam: And I don't believe him. And we don't believe him. And also saying I would never cheat because I've been cheated on is crazy. Like hurt people, hurt people. That's a thing. That's a thing for a reason.

34:09Ben Mandelker: Yeah. Okay. Watch Love Island. Okay.

34:13Ronnie Karam: So once it's like, um, we're not talking about looking at them. Like we're not saying we think you guys fucked. I mean, I am. I'm saying that. And Sierra's like, yeah, but you guys had an emotional affair. And Eddie goes, all right, moving on. To what? There's nothing left. This is like literally what we're talking about. Where are you moving on to? So Lindsay's like, yeah, there was an emotional connection. And he's like, okay, okay, moving on. Wes is like, well, probably. Like we became like closer throughout the summer. Like, well.

34:42Ben Mandelker: To me, it's like, okay, wow. Some headway. He's actually giving some concrete responses.

34:47Ronnie Karam: and it's like oh yeah oh my we're getting somewhere jesus fuck i was like uh and then so

34:52Ben Mandelker: west is like lindsey that is fair to say i said yeah and amanda's like but not in a romantic way though she's like it is romantic but it's like yelling you yelling at west it seemed like you

35:04Ronnie Karam: yelled at him on behalf of yourself and not sierra and what she's talking about is when um he's about the girl sitting on his lap and making out and amanda's like back in the flashback she's saying why at the small intimate party are you deciding to have this girl sitting in your lap the whole

35:20Ben Mandelker: time and like making out with her because he's distracting yeah and so lindsey lindsey's like you're jealous and she's like manda's like no one felt that way in the moment it's like yeah because again they weren't even thinking about this in the moment because the idea of it was is too crazy

35:38Ronnie Karam: and there was distractions well also i think what was happening in that moment now that we have you know, hindsight is that he was pissing Sierra off on purpose to distract from the relationship with Amanda and also trying to get Sierra to just be like, I'm done with you. I don't want anything to do with you anymore. Fuck you. So he would be freed up in everybody's mind when he went with Amanda. It wouldn't be that big of a deal later. I don't know. I think Wes is crafty. I don't know if he's even, I don't know if he's operating on that sort of level. I think so because, you know, and I've said this before, but ever since Lexi was on this show and outed what Jesse was saying behind closed doors about being jealous of West and how West gets more screen time and West gets more audience love.

36:23Ronnie Karam: And you really see the competition and how much the first season went to both of those guys' head. I think every... And West has had this thing with Sierra, the audience going after West about Sierra since the first season. So I think everything he's done towards Sierra is very calculated. I think I'm going to get back on Sierra's side. I'm going to get Sierra to say, OK, we're friends again. Sierra is going to forgive me. Therefore, the audience will forgive me. Therefore, blah, blah, blah. So I think he's got it all set up. And when it started looking like Sierra was maybe crushing on him again, he's like, I'm going to piss her off and get her to finally just say, no, I want nothing to do with you.

37:01Ronnie Karam: And that's how I'm going to do it. I'm going to have this girl come over, sit on my lap, make out with her right next to Sierra. I mean, I think it was all very calculated. at the time I was like what kind of an idiot is this he totally did that on purpose just to give himself an out but it didn't work because Sierra's still like okay I forgive you you want to be you

37:18Ben Mandelker: want to still date I I think he may have done that to be spiteful towards Sierra I just don't think he did it as a to create a distraction for Amanda to me I think that's like a bridge too far but I do 100 % believe that he was being spiteful because Sierra was right next to him and he knew well even

37:36Ronnie Karam: Even if it wasn't a bridge to Amanda, it was a way to get a solid break from Sierra where he could say, I'm not even dating Sierra. She's acting crazy about me having a makeout at a party. What's the big fucking deal? And then offer to free him up from the audience hate.

37:58Ben Mandelker: I think what it really was ultimately, though, was his mask came down. he got drunk his mask came down which was when he was revealed his his true self was saying why do i have to be in the fucking doghouse all the time i just want to make out with a girl but i have to be in the doghouse because of sierra and i'm not gonna like i'm not gonna coddle her anymore and then like as he sobered up and he realized that that was unpopular the mask came back on it's like oh no it was actually like really bad and like i'm feel really bad i do

38:26Ronnie Karam: believe he has i would agree with you except that he purposely invited this girl this wasn't a rando at the party and he even said before the party started oh there's a girl coming and she's really hot so i think there was like premeditation before he was wasted but i think that like maybe his plan

38:45Ben Mandelker: would have been to be more discreet i don't know what i actually think there's a world where it's like all the above with all these things i think that his mask dropped i think that he also was being spiteful towards Sierra. I have a harder time truly believing it was a, uh, it was a plan to distract people from him, him and Amanda, but these days you can't rule anything out.

39:03Ronnie Karam: Well, I'm just saying it was a plan for him to get a clean cut in the audience's mind from Sierra and position her as a crazy jealous person.

39:10Ben Mandelker: Yeah. I almost think in that moment he should have been like, I'm sick of coddling Sierra. I've done what I can do. And I'm just going to now start hooking up with girls. And I, again, standing in it, it's just like the ongoing thing is that he does underhanded things and he does fake things and he doesn't stand in like the fact like i'm an adult i enjoy sierra i hope we can like mend but at this point like i have to i have to i can't tiptoe around her anymore and she's gonna have to whatever baggage she's bringing to this moment she's gonna have to deal with that because i can't i can't be this to it yeah but it's like

39:40Ronnie Karam: he doesn't keep leading her on things it makes it even worse it's like oh yeah i just wanted telling the telling the audience i just want to be friends i hope she's not getting the wrong impression but then telling her why everybody thinks we're questioning each other etc so yeah here comes one right now summer always changes how i'd get dressed i want pieces that feel

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42:08Ben Mandelker: so kyle's like i've got one timeline question that i'm a little concerned about just because you lied once and i'm like i'm gonna give you one last chance and then i'm gonna take your word for word okay so brianna you all know brianna right damn fry i gotta say chicken fry i just love that name brianna chicken fry who is known i guess on the internet told Dave Portnoy, who as we all know is one of the most charming people on all of Twitter. The gentleman.

42:39Ronnie Karam: The quintessential gentleman.

42:41Ben Mandelker: Dave Portnoy. Between him and Michael Rappaport, it's like, wow, so many Prince Charmings. So, Dave Portnoy. Does anybody have a plate to eat? Anyway, Brianna told, gentleman of all gentlemen, Dave Portnoy at the Super Bowl, that you guys were a thing, and now there's only two weeks between when we split and the Super Bowl, so So somehow, someway, one of your close friends thought you guys are an item. And within that two-week period, you have an answer to that. And man's like, you weren't hanging out. Well, no. That's a lie. I've been DMing from someone who knows someone in that circle saying, don't let them fool you.

43:16Ben Mandelker: This goes back to 25. I can't reveal my identity. And that person's name was Cindy Adams. Sorry, Cindy. I had to say it. Cindy Adams. She's like, I still got it.

43:29Ronnie Karam: her name was brilana chicken boil all right her name is liz smith there i said it amanda's like that's insane oh really well i have sally jesse rafael on the phone right now

43:43Ben Mandelker: i got jane pratt from the old talk show jane yamla thanks for my life tell amanda what's going on all right everyone jenny jones is here and she jenny jones is like am i forgiven yet my bad richard bay is here um so he's like i'm just

44:03Ronnie Karam: putting it out there i mean was there physical activity i don't care if it's an emotional affair because at this point that's subjective you know but did you ever hook up in 2025 and he's like no no on my life on my dog's life i'm an emotional there was like much worse than them

44:20Ben Mandelker: them fucking guys like i know but we're never gonna be able to prove that so so mia's like wait a second ask a question did you guys honestly just come forward because you got like there was like so much speculation or you guys gonna continue to lie to us and please be truthful amanda's like to be honest liar to be honest what liar what an aspiration yeah um she's like no we came forward because the speculation because there was like a lot of things i was like still trying to understand and figure out including the miha situation um what about this rumor about there

44:54Ronnie Karam: was like a someone was viewing them well apparently that was cut out so there was stuff that came out in that leak which is well we had to come out because i thought that there was this video circulating that somebody took of us in a compromising position because there was the rumor that someone got a pi and was taping them having sex in one of their apartments Bo Deedle strikes again. Fucking crazy. And either it was a Bravo fan, or then some people were like, Paige DeSorb, I'll hire a private audience. Oh, my God. I mean, I doubt. But who knows? But those were all the rumors. And then apparently in the leaked audio from the reunion, Amanda was saying, we had to come out because we thought this video was going to be coming out.

45:36And we didn't want people to see that

45:38Ben Mandelker: before we had a chance to see. So Amanda gives up like a copy and paste. Like, again, I know that I fucked up. and I know that I didn't handle it right. And in that moment, that's all that I could understand how to do. And again, I'm sorry for lying to you, Sierra. Blah, blah.

45:54Ronnie Karam: Well, were there other people, Wes? I'm assuming there were other girls that you were hanging out with during that time. And he's like, yep,

46:01Ben Mandelker: yep, yep, mm-hmm. Did Mia know that you were dating other women during that time or did she think you were exclusive? And how do you guys feel about you both being fired for the show and Mia being put into the summer house? What do you say about that?

46:13Ronnie Karam: Well, Sierra's like, no, he was not honest. and west says um well yeah like i mean no but like yeah because like obviously like i wasn't the clearest but like i told her it was an exclusive like i don't know like november december you fucking liar why were you calling her your girlfriend and taking her to meet your family and then wearing her horse tail tie on watch what happens like you fucking liar west oh

46:40Ben Mandelker: Oh, my God. The number of people he takes to his family and then betrays is astounding.

46:45Ronnie Karam: Do his family think he's just fostering women? Like, what do they think at this point? Where he just brings, it's like his mom's like, what do I have to feed another one? She's hungry, mom. She's just, you know, she's in a really rough place. Can we just feed her? You are not keeping her. If you're not going to take care of her, you are not keeping her.

47:01Ben Mandelker: The whole bring to the family, that's just a way for him to cosplay as a grown adult who understands commitment. and it's a way to make himself look endearing and sweet and also like it's like oh i'm just mama's

47:12Ronnie Karam: boy it's all a facade don't trust it god the mom must be like wow my son is using me as a prop to

47:19Ben Mandelker: get ass but now here's the word and then screw people over i mean what the hell well now here's the worst part i almost like i was like dumbfounded by this little exchange here so he says i wasn't the obviously i wasn't the clearest but i told her it wasn't really exclusive you know back in november december and siara's like you're lying because you sent her flowers on valentine's day so just like when does the lying stop and his defense is well i've not i've been like not clear with like a zillion women that i've dated prior to this so it's like i'm already i'm like my pattern is that i'm not clear so i don't see what the problem is well that's you know look and that's

47:55Ronnie Karam: why i think west is getting away with so much because west is literally looking at everybody and saying, what the fuck are you people confused about? I've been doing this for three years on national TV, and you guys are acting like this is so shocking to you. What are you surprised about? I've been a piece of shit since I got here. Why is everybody acting so surprised? And I think that's why he's getting away with a lot of this stuff, at least not taking as much as Amanda, because people aren't surprised that it's Wes. The only people who are surprised that Wes did this is the people in the cast.

48:29Ronnie Karam: I don't think the audience is surprised at Wes. only the cast seems to be shocked that west would be capable of this yeah i just think this was such

48:37Ben Mandelker: a wild thing to be like well no i was well i was unclear with her because i mean i'm always unclear i mean it's like why are you like how how are you so proud of having this terrible pattern so then cierra's like so that's your mo yes he's been doing it to you for literally three

48:55Ronnie Karam: years why are you so surprised that this is i mean it's surprising that he would admit it this freely but he's always kind of admitted it too i'm just i'm baffled that they're also but he's

49:07Ben Mandelker: so interesting because he he's like he he he wants to say this is who i am i'm like a schlub but also like i'm not a schlub like he he wants to have it both ways which is what's frustrating with him

49:18Ronnie Karam: actually he's not trying to say he's not a schlub ever he's like i'm a piece of what do you want

49:23Ben Mandelker: well i think he's he's like i think he may be saying that because he knows that's what we we need and want to hear but i think he his whole like um huh huh is like you know sad dog that just got caught eating you know the food that's not supposed to be eating he's like you know he's not he doesn't he's not strident about anything and he doesn't say you know what this is how i've always rolled you guys have put something on to me that i'm not like i said i was not exclusive she thought we were exclusive it sucks for her but i never said we're exclusive and i'm not with amanda like the way they do on love island quite frankly and the fact is he's not doing that he's like well no i guess like i wasn't obviously like very clear he keeps on doing this way of like yeah well i guess it was kind of like a mistake he's just i do believe he still wants to be really liked and seen as like a sweet guy who messed up and um too late he failed he's failed so they're

50:19Ronnie Karam: like oh gosh this is just your style and kyle's like you understand it's a little concerning because I still care for Amanda, okay? Can I just ask you one question? Were you not or were you exclusive with me? And he's like, I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, no. But, like, yeah, you know, like, I mean, yeah, no. Like, yes, no, yes, you know. But, like, she thought we were. Whoops.

50:41Ben Mandelker: So you lied to her. You lied. You lied. You lied. So you're like, well, she thought you were because you said you were saying these things to her and then you said you wanted to be with her. And Kyle's like, yeah, earlier today, he said you were not exclusive by the way and we see a flashback where he says west says that they were absolutely not exclusive but now it's that oh well she thought we were exclusive yeah but we weren't by the way people that doesn't happen people don't people no one says like i like if you believe that you're exclusive with someone but the other person doesn't and it's been like that way for months like it doesn't last that way for months it might last that way for like a weekend And it's like, oh, I thought that we were exclusive.

51:21Ben Mandelker: I didn't realize that we weren't exclusive. Like, that is resolved pretty quickly. That's, like, understood and figured out quickly. It's not like it goes on for three months that one person thinks that they're exclusive when the other person doesn't.

51:33Ronnie Karam: No. Yeah, he was telling her that he was calling her his girlfriend. So that's why she thought that, West. She wasn't just confused. So Kyle's like, okay, now you're just like, I lied again. And Lindsay's like, you cannot keep up with this lies.

51:49Ben Mandelker: so Mia's like so what's the truth you know yeah how do we how do you know the details about this one by the way Kyle he's like oh yeah well curiosity got the best of me and so I did some of the work that you should have done which is that I actually reached out to Mia to get some details and Sarah's like yeah we have a timeline you know

52:04Ronnie Karam: it's like yeah so I pull out the timeline and he's like hold on

52:08Ben Mandelker: you talk to this woman does she have big boobs

52:12Ronnie Karam: was he's like I've talked to her too so I love that they've just all been calling her and so andy is questioning more he's like so you were dating her and he goes yeah secretly yeah thanks for blowing up my spot by the way and amanda's just sitting there like blink blink blink staring off into space with her homer simpson eyes yeah and she thought you were exclusive but you were seeing a lot of women he's like and i was like for 14 months he goes i mean not a lot but like yeah i mean like what's a lot you know like our eggs our eggs a lot it doesn't i look like is it like a 28 egg is it a 12 egg is it one of those little pack of six eggs that you buy that's pre-boiled those were really pricey but worth it not to unpeel that

52:55Ben Mandelker: god damn it concentrate how long do we have to be here so he was seeing other women and while he was with her multiple and and so yeah it was like but you were saying i love which i guess women imply i mean women is multiple but i just had to it's like it wasn't seeing women i'm like multiple multiple multiple chai tea women's women's so uh and c i was like yeah and you were saying i love you to this woman like you can't even look at me because you know you're fucking lying right now oh well it doesn't give you cause for pause rhymes that he was seeing this woman saying i love you to her and everything and then because he's asked this to amanda and he was like yeah i'm sending her flowers on valentine's day and you flew her out to bozeman for the montana game with your dad So Wes flew Amanda out to Bo's.

53:45Ben Mandelker: Was he? No, they're talking about Mia. Okay. But either way, I mean.

53:51Ronnie Karam: He's fucking Amanda, then secretly flying out this girl to see a football game on Valentine's Day with the dad.

53:57Ben Mandelker: Like sending flowers on Valentine's Day. Like that timeline is awfully close. Oh, sorry.

54:01Ronnie Karam: Those are two different things. Sending flowers on Valentine's Day.

54:05Ben Mandelker: Irrigodless. Irrigodless. If you're sending flowers to Mia on Valentine's Day. And then you're picking up with Amanda in February. Yeah.

54:18Ronnie Karam: And Wes is like, that was January 3rd. Yeah, it was January. So either way, you're flying this girl out. And Andy's like, wait, hold on. And Wes is like, yeah, but that was way before any of this. So that doesn't really count.

54:32Ben Mandelker: The Valentine's Day, that does count, okay? And Amanda's like, I had some of this information, not all of it. why are you so chill with having like a fragmented piece of the picture whereas with kyle you were furious at him anytime like you didn't get the full all the details well because she's

54:49Ronnie Karam: trying to be a cool girl you know she's like i would she was married to kyle that's different you know this is she's trying to some guy she's like oh you can still do whatever you want west i'm just a cool girl you know she's playing that with him but it's already slipping like at the end when she's like you're not supposed to eat your weenie we're supposed to meet you like you already see that part so she's not going to be able to keep up this cool girl for long and what's so

55:13Ben Mandelker: hard is that like yes you're only beginning of a relationship you're probably not exclusive you know you're trying to be chill or whatever and that's fine but like you also just got out of this 10-year relationship and like you should have an awareness of red flags of what you want from a guy like did you not learn anything from this relationship we were actually rooting for you to get out of this relationship and to learn from it and to hop into something that was better And instead you're with a guy that admittedly you may not be exclusive with for, but like, well, he just sent, he just sent flowers to another girl like a week before he started getting with you.

55:48Ben Mandelker: And he didn't tell you about any of this information. It's just to me, like, you don't have to be exclusive to see red flags.

55:55Ronnie Karam: Yeah. But if this were any different relationship, I'd be like, you go girl. Like you were together for 10 years. You dumped your husband. Go fuck every fuck boy in town. Like, who cares? You're in New York. Go do whatever you want. You don't need a commitment. You don't need this. You don't need that. but not your best friends.

56:09Ben Mandelker: Exactly. Ex. Especially when you're willing to basically ditch a friendship for this guy who has all these red flags. Yeah.

56:18Ronnie Karam: Congratulations, you've reached the end of part one of a two-part recap. For part two, go look for the recap that says part two.

56:28Ben Mandelker: See you over there, suckers. Watch What Crappens would like to thank its premium sponsors. She answered the call. It's Adia Paul. Ain't no thing like Alison King. Our way is the Amber way. It's the Foster and the Furious. It's Amanda Foster. It's Always Automatic with Ashley Otto. Put your hands together for Carly Clapp. Get on the right foot with Chrissy Offord.

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58:05Ronnie Karam: We're taking the gold with Brenda Silva.

58:08Ben Mandelker: Let's get real with Caitlin O 'Neill.

58:10Ronnie Karam: Put us on a stretcher. It's Charlotte Fletcher. Hogle your horses. It's Christine Hogle. Don't get salty with Christine Pepper. Can't have a meal without the Emily sides.

58:20Ben Mandelker: Who, what, why, where, and Gwen Pentland. Nobody holds a candle to Jamie Kendall. We got our wish. It's Jen Plish. Have a kebab with K-Rob. My favorite Murdo, Karen McMurdo. Let's get savage with Laura Wildman. In the study with a candlestick, it's Leslie Peacock. We're ride or die for Lisa Ryder Barron. She's a whiz, it's Liz Sarthy. Always killing it, it's Lola Alkalani. Roger that, it's Marlis Rogers.

58:47Ronnie Karam: The incredible edible Matthews sisters. She eases our woes, it's Melissa St. Rose. She's the lady of the house, it's Rachel Sherouse. There's a chance of meatballs, it's Rebecca Cloud. She's our princess. It's Rebecca Prince.

59:01Ben Mandelker: She's the Queen Bee. It's Sarah Lemke. We cannot tell a lie. It's Sarah Talafson. Shannon, out of a cannon, Anthony. Please don't stop. It's Solian Pop. Let's take off with Tam LaPlane. Strike a pose. It's Tori Rose.

59:16Ronnie Karam: She ain't no shrinking Violet Kuchar. We love you guys.

59:25Ronnie Karam: This is Kat and Nat from Kat and Nat Unfiltered. And this episode is sponsored by Michaels, your destination for all things birthday parties. If you've ever planned a birthday celebration, you know it goes from cute idea to full on chaos real fast.

59:40Ben Mandelker: The party shop at Michael's makes life easier with over 4 ,500 party supplies in 60 plus themes like Bluey, Rodeo, Soccer, Rainbow and more. Starting at just 99 cents, you can shop same day delivery or order online for pickup in store. And they even do free helium inflation on SelectBloonStyles.

1:00:01Ronnie Karam: Michael's everything to celebrate anything. Visit Michael's in store or shop online now.

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1:00:35Ronnie Karam: Have you tried Rothy's casual clog? It has sold out 10 times for a reason. It really is that good. With a luxe, extra comfy footbed and easy sleek design, Rothy's clogs are a celeb favorite shoe. Visit rothys.com and read what nearly 6 ,000 reviews have to say about these best-selling clogs. That's R-O-T-H-Y-S dot com.