#3495 House of the Dragon S03E08: Open a New Window

0:00Ben Mandelker: Hi, this is Paige from Giggly Squad, and today's episode is brought to you by McDonald's. Honestly, Caesar sauce and a Diet Coke at McDonald's might be the perfect girl dinner. And Mc Crispy strips dipped in Caesar sauce? No notes. Right now, at participating McDonald's, the$2.99 Caesar snack wrap is making me rethink my entire go-to order.

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1:05Ben Mandelker: One, two, three, four.

1:34Ronnie Karam: Well, hello and welcome to Watch What Crappens. Winter is crappeting our House of the Dragon podcast. Thank you so much for being here, everybody. It is season finale time. If you want this on video, you can get it on video. Come to our Watch What Crappens Patreon. that's where you get ad free listening bonus episodes all that good stuff so join us over there can't believe this was a nail biter of an episode how did you feel i was yeah i was

2:06Ben Mandelker: stressing i was stressing uh we knew everything was going to go wrong i was deeply unhappy with the things that happened but like that's that's just what this universe is right like nothing goes according to plan we always know it's not going to go according to plan we know things are going to get messed up they basically tease that it's going to get messed up uh but i am sad to see ray ray descend into fascism that's a real that's a real sad turn and we know it's going to happen i didn't actually i should say coming into the season i did not know that was going to happen i thought she was still going to be great ray ray and that she was going to just face you know various setbacks and all of her plans would still never come to fruition because of all sorts of other bullshit what i was not expecting was her to descend into fascism and um i didn't realize that was the plan until i you know i started watching the after the show you know um little things where they talk with the creators and they were like this is the first sign that she's being gripped with paranoia and that everything's gonna go badly for her and i was like what what why are you doing that no stop it stop it so i'm very well i figured things were gonna go

3:17Ronnie Karam: badly because i watched that same after show that you did and i mean it's the after the hbo one yeah and when they said she cut her finger on the chair and that was yeah you know we know what happened to her father and so i was thinking oh god now we're gonna have to watch her rot i don't want to watch another person right on tv please don't and especially ray ray i love her i know i was like

3:39Ben Mandelker: i felt like it was the first time i really understood the betrayal that people felt in Game of Thrones when Daenerys went and burned down the whole city. Because, you know, as I've said many times, as you all probably can tell by the things I say sometimes, is that I did not watch Game of Thrones from the beginning the way everyone else did. I binged the whole show leading up to the final season, like the final half of the final season. And so for me, I watched it all at once. And it was a very different experience than spending eight or nine years, you know, watching the show and then spending nine or 10 months talking about it, making, you know, getting invested in different characters and yada, yada, yada.

4:20Ben Mandelker: So I think a lot of people who are on that, like, multi-year journey, by the time Daenerys, like, lost her mind and torched King's Landing, it felt like a huge betrayal. And to me, I was like, that was just another twist in this show. Whereas this time with Rey Rey, I feel the betrayal. I feel the character betrayal. And like there have been people online who are like, yes, we love that she's in her bad bitch era. Yes, she just told her enemies this. I'm going to do it. But in my mind, I'm like, no, no, I like what she stood for. No. No.

4:52Ronnie Karam: She's in her incompetent era. That's what she's in. Girl, she can't even put on her eyeliner. She does it vertically in between her two eyes. It's like one of those creepy old clown dolls or like a Joker on a card. What are you doing now?

5:10Ben Mandelker: Well, Mazeria clearly did her makeup too. She's like, okay, Linda, you do my makeup today. Linda's like, okay, do I do it like this? Like, fine, it'll just be my look. She's going to sell it.

5:23Ronnie Karam: Well, they've been giving us Rhaenyra as a terrible leader the whole season, but that's kind of normal on this show because everyone just is like, Like, oh, I want the job. Then they get the job. The job sucks. And then we have to watch them kind of adjust to the job. And so it was kind of a workplace adjustment type thing. So I was with you. I don't know the end. I haven't looked at the book spoilers and all of that. So I don't know. I mean, I have little clues because people do spoil little things here and there. But I didn't know that it was going to go this bad and that Ray Ray was going to be fucking at fault.

5:57Ben Mandelker: I know. I mean, it's weird. I think that coming into the entire series, I believe we knew that this was going to be showing the downfall of the Targaryens, right? Like, this is what happened to all the dragons. This is what happened to the Targaryens, why there's so few of them left. So we knew it was going to go down in a bad way. But what I did not anticipate was Rey Rey becoming corrupted herself. and I guess for me the reason why it bothers me is that I guess I just didn't see why. I don't see why she's corrupted. You know, she's been around power her whole life. I know there's this prophecy, but the prophecy was never like a thing that she was so dogmatic before when she was on Dragonstone.

6:40Ben Mandelker: She led at Dragonstone. She was finally leading. I don't know. I feel like she came into here and into King's Landing and she was like her first instincts were really good. you know she fed rats all the rich people she handed out sandwiches things like that and then all of a sudden she just stopped doing that and i guess for me i'm like i i feel like she pivoted towards the dark side mainly because the writers were like we've got to have her pivot towards the dark side serves our larger story and i don't feel like i understand truly why she had to the only explanation i can come up with is quite frankly damon i think damon's a bad influence i'll just say it people love damon i don't love damon i think he's a dick i think he's a bad influence and i think he is the one who's corrupted her more than the throne there i said it well yeah

7:24Ronnie Karam: i mean well first everything has been based on the prophecy every move that she's made because she thinks that they're you know that's the prophecy and she has to do it or the world is gonna end or whatever i like how they explained it in the after show and miseria of all people explained it so well when she was like she had to make a choice at that point she finds out agon is alive so now all the religions turned against her and she had to choose between miss area's advice yes and damon's advice and so she chose damon and dan that's what damon you know if you're going to choose team damon is burn it all to the ground and yeah rule with force and so she made that she chose also

8:07Ben Mandelker: went with masculinity you know because when she says uh on the steps like i am the prince that was promised she's basically saying in that moment like when she says i'm the prince she really has pushed away femininity right like that's her lady lover miseria is is the woman of the council as well as i mean there's also the the other lady but um she basically is leading into masculinity force power and um it's a terrible choice as it often is in life leading into masculinity leads to terrible things for our world.

8:45Ronnie Karam: You know, it's like a leader who just wants to be boss, but they don't really want the job. And she never really had her own identity in it. Because when she was doing the things that you liked, giving the bread to the people, well, I mean, we all liked, you know, feeding the rats to the rich. That was Maseria's influence, you know? Yes. And then this other stuff is the Damon influence. And so she never really had her own thing. She hasn't known what the fuck to do that whole time. And every time they have a meeting, you know, they're like, here's the problems with the poor people. Here's the problems with the rich people.

9:16Ronnie Karam: Here's the problems with the donkeys. Here's a problem with the rats. She's like, where's Aegon? Where's Aemond? You know, that's all she thinks about is like fighting with her brothers and sisters and winning that stupid fight. She doesn't really care about all the rest of the governing part, which, man, it just sucks because we saw Ray Ray since she was a little girl. And I don't know. It's like you're rooting for her. And it's like, girl, no, no, no. Even her own kid. She finally spends time with that damn kid. Joffrey finally wakes up. He's like, I don't even know you. What do you – I mean, what a way to spend time with your mother for the first time.

9:53Ronnie Karam: Seriously. On a way to kill the pope and then give a crazy babbling speech to a bunch of people about some prophecy nobody's ever heard of. It's like the biggest secret that you've been keeping. In a language they can't speak. Yes. you've been keeping the secret for like ever. And then suddenly you're just blabbing it out to everybody. And then you change into a different language. They don't have captions. No one knows what you're saying. They don't know. And they don't know. They don't like it. You're wearing like a chain mail habit.

10:18Ben Mandelker: Like what? I know. But I did like that she sort of took action because she has been sort of floundering all season. I actually kind of feel bad for the actress who just really hasn't had anything to do. She's just been stuck in the small council room. And I love the small council back and forths every season and every show, like Game of Thrones, this one. But she really has just had nothing to do. And she's just been waffling all season. And it's been sort of upsetting because she never waffled. She was always so steadfast and so clear about what to do and what her intentions were. I guess that's where I felt like this part of the story was lacking for me is that she believed in the prophecy.

10:58Ben Mandelker: but like why why now did she start to waffle so much why was she so all of a sudden not a woman

11:05Ronnie Karam: of action anymore and i think she's waffled the whole time i think she's not known what to do the entire time yeah she's listening to this person listening to that person and she's been dealing with her own personal traumas the whole time that's taken her whole brain it's like the you We saw her giving birth and then Alicent being such a monster to her during that. And then fighting Alicent and the dad and then losing her kids. And then, I mean, she's had a lot to do as an actor. I mean, this whole thing has been grieving. And, I mean, to the point where this time it opens with her bursting and sobbing.

11:45Ronnie Karam: I mean, ah! And I was like, for Christ's sake. Yeah. Pull it together. her i mean i started definitely a fun episode like come on man yeah i guess it just feels like in in

11:55Ben Mandelker: the past seasons she would have some waffling but then she would have like a clarity of what to do or there'd be like bureaucrats on the small council be like you can't do that you shouldn't do that but and she's like you know what you all i'm gonna follow my instinct and do this and she just she flinched and i guess they're trying to say like well what's one thing to rule from dragon stone but to rule the kingdom is much harder but i'm like but she's she's been here before she grew up around this she's i don't know like i guess i just wasn't totally sold or i may or maybe i just am resistant to her going to the dark side but it is the inevitability of it i accept it it's not a it's not a huge issue for me i just wouldn't like say i mourn it i mourn the ray ray we love and

12:36Ronnie Karam: love and trust and like all the terrible things it makes all the denarius stuff make a lot more sense too yeah in context of the history and what happens when you have all that power and you're just like well fuck it then i'll just burn everybody down you know it's like fuck these people it's like oof on the dragon yeah you know when he goes bonkers at the end it's just like

12:58Ben Mandelker: fuck you and fuck you too that's probably why they gave it to bran at the end they're like we'll just give it to bran he's so boring even if he gets corrupted he's really not gonna do much let's be

13:08Ronnie Karam: honest yeah that ending made a lot more sense uh as time went on and you just kind of look at how politics works you know it's like yeah yeah sometimes that is the best just because the flashiest you know most entertaining don't necessarily lead us down the right roads you know sometimes you just need a boring man who can see through the eyes of a wolf that's right

13:33Ben Mandelker: Well, why don't we get into it? So it begins with Orwell rushing through the Red Keep with an urgent message, which is pretty much his role on this show, is to sort of get places urgently. And he's like, I must see the queen. So he goes in and he's like, yo, Grace. So she wakes her up. And then now she rushes into Damon's room. And now she's a mess. Oh, my God. He's alive. He's risen. hey god sunfire they're alive they're alive they're awake they're alive oh my god it's terrible he's like what what are you talking about just how daemon is always looking at her like come on

14:16Ronnie Karam: he's never raised by anything uh and she's like a god burns up the ocean rooks rest and then i don't even know where he is now and then now everybody's like all the religious people think that it's a sign that he's the king what am i supposed to do what the fuck am i supposed to do He's like, oh, for Christ's sake, get it together. We have nuclear weapons. Do you understand? Blow everybody up. We are the blood of old Valeria. This is good old-fashioned, you know, like blonde supremacy.

14:48Ben Mandelker: I mean, they're just these small folk. Their minds are just so supple. I mean, they're so bendable. What? Someone dies and their dragon dies. They somehow magically become resurrected. Like, oh, it's a sign of something. I mean, please. It's like, it's a pretty good sign. I have to say the resurrection of a dragon that has yet to be explained. I think that's like literally a great sign for who should be. Like, isn't it weird that we're rooting for Aegon now?

15:16Ronnie Karam: I'm not rooting for Aegon either. I mean, that's kind of the thing with this show is it's like watching the Valley on Bravo where you just can't root for anybody. They're all terrible. Okay.

15:25Ben Mandelker: But I, so there's no, I think I said this last week, you just have to enjoy it. Them being horrible. but I think I said this last week that it is like a reality show right where it's like oh Ray Ray's having a bad edit this season you know but like Aegon is actually he's you know he's always the villain but this season he's had like a good redemption arc you know it really it really is such a parallel to watching Bravo yeah

15:46Ronnie Karam: and he sucked too I mean he sucked as a leader too like no one none of these people he's grown up now for Christ's sake

15:54Ben Mandelker: look he kissed he kissed poop on a shoe he's grown up He's grown up. He just needed some time to ripen. That's it. He was an entitled prick, but now his dick's been burned off and he's lost his good looks and he's just had to suffer through the woods listening to Laris of all people and had to do manual labor. He's grown up. He's seen things. He understands. I think he'd be great.

16:22Ronnie Karam: He's fucking terrible. He's still terrible.

16:26Ben Mandelker: I said put him back on the throne why not let's do it

16:30Ronnie Karam: so then Ray Ray does what most of us do and just start blaming our parents when anything goes wrong it's like another stoplight thanks a lot dad you know but she's like fucking Viserys he put me out his fucking prophecy has tested me again and again and then they switch over to High Valerian because they can it's important They're like, yeah.

17:02Ben Mandelker: He's like, this is your test. Now, the moment you rise, the only quality the realm understands is strength. You have always known this. And she's like, set a watch for Aegon's dragons and have Hugh take post outside the dragon pit with Vermithor. You will proceed with the attack on Dumbledore. Go house to house. Root out every high tower. the realm is watching do not make a monster of me well weren't they gonna do that anyway weren't they gonna go house the house i mean like it's cool that you're like telling him to do this

17:31Ronnie Karam: but they were gonna do that so yeah also hugh i thought that was the plan anyway but this was also why it was surprising kind of how this episode unfolded because she's like okay i'm pissed but still keep it peaceful just get them out of there but still don't burn people down okay don't make a monster of me yeah so um and she's like yeah because once warman and darren

17:54Ben Mandelker: are dead like then i'll be able to really go to go after agon but um then she'd like leave she's like ah i'm mad and as she's walking out the hallway uh bail is there and bail is like your grace um have plans been laid for the sea snakes rescue um are you going to save him are you gonna we all like him can can we save him from tumbleton before you do any of this stuff and she's like your father will search tumbleton for the sea snake once the town has been reclaimed she's like this is where ray ray just falls off again listen you're going to tumbleton anyway that is where

18:30Ronnie Karam: her dad or her grandfather is all you have to say is yes i'm sending people to tumbleton right now to fight and we're gonna get your dad back why do you need to be like your dad's not important enough we're gonna go sack the town and maybe if he's alive we'll bring him back like come on you're already doing the work to go to that damn tumble den lady or just lie like you're willing to kill

18:53Ben Mandelker: the pope later so just tell a little lie be like oh absolutely before we go in there we're gonna send someone in and pluck your father out who actually shouldn't have been in the field in the first place and got himself captured but that's okay i'm not mad about that at all and be like could have been like, okay, great. And then she'd be like, okay. And be like, whatever, I'm not going to do that. But she is very, very honest. And so Reh-Reh is like, well, you and Adedam are needed to guard the city if indeed these rumors are true and Sunfire was allowed to live.

19:22Ronnie Karam: And she's like, but Corlys is your hand. Like, he's your oldest ally. You have to save him. And she's like, well, I do not wish him ill, but he made his choice and we must now pay his price. Again, you're just handling this so badly. You know, it's not that she's not even trained to be queen. She's not even trained in basic customer service, you know? Yeah.

19:45Ben Mandelker: She's not trained in politics, which is to be like, well, you know, our thoughts and prayers are with Bayless. And if we can help him, we will. And unfortunately, this is more of a mental health issue than anything else. And we just hope for the best. Just say something like that. And Bayless could be like, why do you keep on saying thoughts and prayers? She's like, because I don't want to tell you what I really think about the situation, which is I want to let him die. So Bela is like, well, guess what? This is all your fault. And Lord Corliss was out there to be taken because of you. This is you.

20:14Ben Mandelker: You brought this all on.

20:16Ronnie Karam: She's got some nerve, though, Bela, too. Like, you just locked this woman. You just locked the queen in her chambers so that she couldn't go fight. And then you went with her son who ended up getting killed in the fight by your sister. Like, are you really going to bitch at me right now? Seriously? I know.

20:37Ben Mandelker: I know. Exactly. And she's like, it's, you know, this is how you've always treated those who serve you. Adidem and I have labored without rest over countless sorties in search of your enemy only to be repaid by in your anger. She's like, yeah, my son died and you were complicit in that. she's like well this is because your sorties have yielded nothing while my enemies have been allowed to muster their strength you're on a dragon you're in the sky and you can't find the biggest dragon in the sky have you looked at the horizon have you looked at the clouds do you ever think oh that dark cloud is actually a dragon because it's breathing fire what is wrong with

21:12Ronnie Karam: your sorties and she's like and my sister look how you're treating my sister poor thing she's in they're depressed because of you your sister took sheep stealer and then helped bring about her son's death like bala are you pull the car over you know at this point it's like just pull the car over we are having a talk uh by the way i'm really glad to see that that bala love triangle

21:39Ben Mandelker: um went nowhere for no reason like why did they even introduce that they're like oh she made out with what's his face and then added and was like I like you oh but you like my brother and then it's like what will happen and as it turns out the answer is nothing yeah they'll get

21:56Ronnie Karam: there next year that was a seed planted for next year I think oh it'll happen not next year but in a decade or 20 years whenever the next whenever the final season comes out they'll be like it's time for a commercial it's time for a crappin's commercial

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25:35Ben Mandelker: That's article.com slash crappens for$50 off your first purchase of$100 or more. So Bela sasses, Bela sasses Rhaenyra, you know, because Rhaenyra is like, I would have been justified in abandoning you after the gullet. Perhaps you should be so lucky that I let you even stand here and talk to me. And she goes, yeah, but you need my dragon. That's why. And so then Rhaenyra is like, ah. So she grabs her face. She goes, insolent child. I should not blame you for it truly. Insolence runs in your blood, as your sister lately has reminded us. Yeah.

26:10Ronnie Karam: Rhaenyra, you're not wrong, but you're also pissing off a lot of people with dragons. We're supposed to be on your side. A lot of people. Come on, Rhaenyra. I mean, Rhaenyra. So then we go to Alan, and he is speaking with Corlys's men, and he's like, okay, we have to go secure King's Landing. And they're like, yeah, but then won't Corlys die if we don't go in there and save him? He's like, well, he brought this on himself. He knew of his risks and his adventures. He'd want us to appraise Valyrian honor. And they're like, yeah, who are you to say what Corliss wants? And he's like, how dare you?

26:48Ronnie Karam: I'm his eldest living son and named successor. I was on a really good sci-fi show before this. Do not mess with me.

26:59Ben Mandelker: I'm your once and future Lord of the Tides. Oh, my God. So, you know, Barbara, can you get an autograph? No, not Prince of Tides, Lord of the Tides. Oh, never mind.

27:11Ronnie Karam: Well, I'll tell you, I've never had a stain taken out more easily. I will bow to you. I'm not tied.

27:19Ben Mandelker: I think, you know, I think we would have actually been a little bit more motivated if we knew Nick Nolte was involved in this. Okay. All right, what do you need to hear from me to get you excited? Can you just say Lowenstein? Lowenstein! Lowenstein! Thank you.

27:34Ronnie Karam: Stop calling me Mr. Lowman. So we go to Tumbleton and Gawain Darin. Gawain. Darren and Ormond are there And Ormond's like Oh look at this Remarkable right Well you must be made a knight Before you can be crowned King Neil Darren Tigerian you will be made a knight right now Do you promise To never have any stinky things Around to me Do you also promise That if my paws are full of goo You will help squeeze them Because we don't have mirrors yet Sure I swear it. Will you wax my butthole? Could I get back to you on that one? Okay, you are a knight. That was not in there. That was not in there. Extra credit.

28:25Ben Mandelker: Darren the Darren. So I thought it was funny that the knighting ceremony is like a British knighting ceremony. I mean, obviously they take a lot of stuff from British culture, but I was like, that's blatantly just British knighting right there. I feel like since it's a fantasy land, they should have had some other like ritual that's like i don't know different just a little

28:45Ronnie Karam: commentary from your nose and turn it into a little ball and get it through my two fingers

28:51Ben Mandelker: made into a goalie you can be right yeah exactly i actually had to rewind this part and put on the

28:59Ronnie Karam: captions because i'm just a ding i'm a dingling but i thought he said all right then rise the So, Deren the Deren. I was like, okay, come on now. Deren the Deren. Deren the Deren, you can do better than that.

29:13Ben Mandelker: But it was Deren the Deren. I had my captions on the whole time because I missed so much. So now Ulf is in a tavern. And he's like, all right, everyone. Queen of Bastards, Armies, Gates. I'm leading them to slaughter. I will be your uncle. No, her lover. No, her husband. It's Daemon fucking Targaryen. Oh, yeah. Of course, he's got a fucking dragon. but he's not going to use it. And like, how do you know? Because his lady wife, the queen, won't let him. Because Rhaenyra's got Daemon on a short leech, like a bitch in a kennel. Another tale for the dragon lord. The rogue prince was seen quake before the mighty and terrible lord of the wild.

29:55Ronnie Karam: Yeah, so he's just, it's one of those like, wow, the townspeople just gathered around someone swinging a beer around and laughing at everything. At least it wasn't another song.

30:08Ben Mandelker: I know. It took me right back to when they were singing songs and the Rivermen were singing songs at the beginning of the season. I'm like, ugh. They really don't know how to write these commoner scenes. They're always so school play-ish. Like, all right, everybody. Let it gather round for a tale. Of course, I say, I'll just go tell a tale of the king and his bitch wife. I'm like, okay. I feel like the commoners don't talk like this.

30:34Ronnie Karam: yeah the commenters are always idiots on these shows you know they're just like we're dumb but we have a beer and someone's telling us to laugh so we're all gonna laugh you think god people aren't really like that and then you watch a political rally on tv i know i'm like do you not remember the ufc fight on the white house lawn um i have to say uh i i did actually think last

30:57Ben Mandelker: season when ulf was in the tavern and he had his like drinking buddies that that that was like I felt I like that that was like more realistic of like what I imagine you know the small folk at at leisure would be doing but like this scene was very much like I felt like he was about to start

31:13Ronnie Karam: singing Mary Poppins or something yeah he was like he was doing his roast in the pub I like he's just standing and everybody's standing kind of around him just swinging a beer back and forth everybody's like an extra on the ride at Disneyland the Pirates of the Caribbean yes or they're just on tracks running around with their arms waving like it does feel like it's like teeing up like master

31:35Ben Mandelker: of the house or something like some musical number you know about like people don't realize the work we put in to make our pies something like that you know just like okay okay so now

31:50Ronnie Karam: Now we go back to King's Landing and Alinda, the Rhaenyra's personal maid lady, comes in and she's like, it's Princess Helena. She's not taking food. And everyone's worried for her health, especially for the babe in her belly. So she's like, sir. OK, whatever. Someone. So Alan, I will have a full escort to the Grand Sept. Also, get whoever recycles Diet Coke cans and have them make me a finale outfit.

32:21Ben Mandelker: extremely important. But do save one Diet Coke, because I just love it. I love it. Just one, and then we can add it to the dress afterwards. I just will need it right before I walk over there. And Linda's like, oh, at once, your grace, will that be all? She goes, no. So then we cut to Miseria's private office quarters, and she's just sitting there, you know, just doing Miseria things. I don't know what she does when she's just hanging out there in her room, and then the guards walk in.

32:47Ronnie Karam: She's always like, Like she's I imagine that she's always just steamed a new white outfit because she's got so many like pretty white outfits. So she's just steamed. And then Linda comes in. She's like, oh, awkward. Yeah, guys, just go ahead. Start packing her stapler and her hole puncher into boxes. Yeah, you've been fired. I'm so sorry. You will be rich. She's going to give you lots of rich. you're going to be taken to wear SOS, something like that. Pentos. Sorry, got him confused. You're going to have so much money. You don't have money to offer me? What are you firing me with all your non-gold?

33:26Ben Mandelker: Yeah. No, you're going to love it in Pentos. I mean, look, what happens if you add a U and an E to Pentos? Because Penthouse, that is where you will be living. You're just going to love it. Yeah, can you just like get that? You know what? Leave the lamp. She doesn't get to have the lamp. Just whatever trinkets you can find, just put them in a box. It's just that your role has been eliminated and we really appreciate your work here. and you'll have a parting gift. And thank you so much. We enjoy you.

33:51Ronnie Karam: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Not the coffee mate. Not the coffee mate. You can't just take creamers. Okay, those are property of the castle. So sorry.

33:58Ben Mandelker: Unfortunately, those big pens, we will need those back. You can't take those.

34:03Ronnie Karam: But customers can even take these pens. Yeah, you're not a customer. You're fired. Okay, so put the branded pen back down on the branded notepad by your bed. Okay, you are out. And Mazzaria's like, what?

34:17Ben Mandelker: But why? And Linda's like, I don't understand either. I'm just, I don't know what's going on.

34:23Ronnie Karam: So then I was so mad. So then we go to Helena being escorted. She's being brought back in. They're like, you've had your hour in the jail yard or whatever. You've got to come back in. She's like putting down her curling weights. She's like, all right. All right, I'm going back in. And then as she walks through the entrance courtyard thing, she sees the white horse from her dreams.

34:47Ben Mandelker: Yeah. And then she sees Mizaria being escorted out, and Mizaria sees her, and she goes, Do not trust the queen. Aegon has returned. His dragon lives. Your unborn child is a hostage, a prize by which she can hold power over his enemies. She will never release you.

35:07Ronnie Karam: Okay, well, awesome. Trying to get me to your side, but you were on the other side this whole time. Why should I trust you? But Helena knows she's telling the truth. Also, in the last episode, Helena was having visions, and we were like, why is she in a field with the two blonde children? And now we know.

35:24Ben Mandelker: Yeah. Well, I think everyone's been anticipating that she's going to, like, that she was not going to be on this mortal plane for very much longer. I mean, especially after Ray Ray so delicately grabbed her by the wrist and was like, tell me what's going to happen to me. We're like, okay, Helena's out. She's like, I'm done. I don't want to do this anymore. I didn't I'm sick of it

35:45Ronnie Karam: I didn't think that at all I really didn't I was like oh my god Helene could win this whole thing because there was that part where she was on her dragon and then her dragon Streamfire right her dragon gorgeous first of all and the purple crown of whatever you call it horns and the dragon Dracarist all over everybody so I was like oh there's the ending I'll choose but then

36:13Ben Mandelker: there was also that like about three or four episodes ago she was like I want to go stand by the window which was at that point everyone was like wait a second keep her away from that window we know what's going on with that window that window is bad news I saw a couple of comments

36:27Ronnie Karam: of people being like I thought she was going to walk right through that window but I didn't know that that was like a spoiler or anything so I was actually genuinely surprised I did not like did not like so she sees the horse and in her visions last week the horse was i guess kind of a prelude to heaven because she saw that white horse and then

36:46Ben Mandelker: she was and the gates opened up yeah she saw the horse and opened up uh yeah i don't understand what the dream fire thing is but maybe the dream maybe dream fire returning in her dream signified sunfire coming back to life some weird way oh i don't know it's hard to know i took it as like

37:03Ronnie Karam: different options you know different things that could happen i would like it if the writers just

37:08Ben Mandelker: said what they intended um like when it's done that's not how dreams work i know but when it's done the writers can be like okay we meant this with this and we meant this with that

37:17Ronnie Karam: and we meant that with that that's that's although my dreams are pretty obvious aren't yours i find my dreams are not my dreams are not tricky it's like i was walking around and i couldn't get anywhere i couldn't figure out where i was gonna go i mean it's pretty on the nose um no direction

37:35Ben Mandelker: my um i i yeah my my dreams are very non-metaphorical it's like oh i i ran it it's like i ran into a celebrity at a party it's usually something like that it's like oh look there's kitty cork or something like that like my my roommate in college she'd be like i had a dream last night that i was flying and i saw the virgin mary his dreams are always so over the top he was very helena-esque and i was always like oh i um i went to a party and i was eating dip and that's

38:04Ronnie Karam: like my whole dream yeah yeah i remember being younger and dreaming i was peeing and then i would wake up and be like oh my god i'm peeing you know i'm very i'm just a very obvious dreamer i don't so uh she's not uh so then we go to heron hall and amon hears echoes of aegon's voice in his dream. He's like, help me, brother. Help me. And Alice is right there. And she's like, oh, God, you're alive. All right, drink this. Just drink it, dumbass. You'll take any old other drink, so drink this one. Seriously. Yes, it's abortion tea, but it also has other properties that are very good for your skin.

38:43Ben Mandelker: It's like Ozempic. It's really for diabetes, but they found out it actually works pretty well for other things. So just enjoy it.

38:49Ronnie Karam: You'll enjoy not having food noise. I'll tell you that much.

38:54Ben Mandelker: So he's like, why do I, why do you care whether I'm alone, whether I live or die? I'm a kinslayer, Alice. My own brother is dead by my hand. I have been damned for my trespasses and cursed to suffer. You should abandon me lest you bring mine own fate upon yourself. Surely no one in this room is more cursed than I am right now and doesn't have a monologue to explain why they would be.

39:19Ronnie Karam: Wow. So then we get the Alice backstory. I was surprised that we were going to get, that we got all this. I like that. Actually, I feel like this show is so good at not giving us, like making us wait forever. And they actually gave us, they gave it to us. Right on its silver platter. So she starts crying. She faces away from him. And she says, once upon a time, when the dragon Balerion burned this place, it was the end to Lord Heron's line. But his line was not so ended. There was a survivor, a child, a boy. He was burned terribly. But alive, his mother would have given anything to save him. So that was her.

39:59Ronnie Karam: And so she says she summoned maesters from all across the seven kingdoms. But there was nothing to do. So she turned to older cures and witchery and uncovered, you know, incantations from crazy books. She started reading tarot cards. She started reading fortune cookies that weren't even pointed at her. She even started talking to the people of the forest.

40:26Ben Mandelker: And then she discovered that that's when she learned the costs. Because she discovered that then she was cursed. To live on, to remain within the bounds of the River King's old. Cursed for sharing in Harren's avarice. Stripped of her name, her title, her castle. And sentenced to serve every half-penny lord who came here to rule it. And Aegon's like, wow, did you ever meet her? That's me, you idiot. That's me. I was talking in the third person to be dramatic.

40:55Ben Mandelker: So it sounds like with all - I have questions.

40:58Ronnie Karam: Okay. Oh, go ahead. Sorry.

41:00Ben Mandelker: I was going to say, it sounds like when she was doing all her magic, she didn't really know what she was doing and she cursed herself by accident, right? Or the children of the forest were mad at her or something like that.

41:08Ronnie Karam: Well, here's the thing. Like, if you're going to make deals with the children of the forest, what was the deal? Your son still died. So what'd you get out of this? Now you're just cursed? that's not fair you're supposed to be given something in return for you know granting the wish or whatever like I wish something you've seen wicked you've seen wicked

41:29Ben Mandelker: you see how magic goes awry for not doing it properly well that's true

41:34Ronnie Karam: oh so you think she like cursed herself like she read a spell along or something

41:38Ben Mandelker: she didn't know what she was doing she's being foolish and she she like mixed it up it was like a light like bring him back to life and then she got the lyrics wrong of the Evanescence song and then accidentally gave herself like you know eternal life but the kid still died and she's like damn it did it wrong

42:01Ronnie Karam: yeah cause otherwise those are terrible the forest people like don't trust a forest person don't make a deal with a forest person that's for sure they'll really fuck ya

42:10Ben Mandelker: is she not allowed to leave the castle or is it that like the curse is broken when she gets to control the castle maybe is that what it is

42:19Ronnie Karam: I don't know but she's cursed to be on the grounds and stay there forever and deal with everybody I don't know what she's waiting for maybe having a baby because she wants to you know be with Eamon and he wants or she wants him to be the lord of the hall or whatever so I don't know but then she wouldn't say then stay with me forever because if she broke the curse and she would be able to die or leave or something right what you know what she should have just

42:50Ben Mandelker: told us to daemon and be like look here's my situation i'm cursed i would love harren hall because i think it might break my curse and also like i can i can run it pretty well she should have said that i think that would have helped yeah you know i don't think any it's it's

43:06Ronnie Karam: kind of like watching below deck we just covered an episode of below deck and we're like all these men on below deck are the same you never trust one of these men and it sucks to watch people fall into the trap over and over again even when they've already fucked them over on the show and then they're like well don't worry just keep me secret or something and then they fall right they're like okay we'll just keep it secret and i'll give him whatever he wants it's that kind of thing where It's like you just had a blonde skinny guy here who looks just the same as this other one last season. And he just left after you gave him everything, too.

43:40Ronnie Karam: And now you're trying with another skinny blonde guy from literally the same family. He's going to fuck you over. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They will. The below deck curse that she was visited. They visited the below deck curse on the palace with Harrenhal.

43:56Ben Mandelker: I've been cursed to stay alive on this boat. Now we go back to King's Landing. Welcome to Sandy Hall. Yes, seriously. So Ray Ray goes in to see Helena. And she's like, you must eat, sister. Think of the babe. And she's like, you are thinking of him now, too? She's like, you're saying it's a boy? Do you know this? Look at me. You cannot think I would harm you. You don't think I would harm you, would you? I wouldn't harm you. I wouldn't harm you. She's like, do you think life is nothing more than not being dead? Our father would hate you for this. So Rere does not like that. She goes, and yet he did nothing to prevent it.

44:34Ben Mandelker: I strove to honor his philosophy until I saw that it would be the realm's undoing. Oh, please, please, please.

44:40Ronnie Karam: Excuse me, but I have something very creepy to tell you for no reason. Okay. There's a beetle. There's a beetle that emerges on the cusp of the summer. It has lots of colors. Blue, gold, red, yellow, green, brown, scarlet, black, ochre. Peach, ruby. All right, you're just doing Joseph in the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcast. Get to the point. All right. Well, it looks like a turtle. Have you ever noticed it? Are we talking about my father again? Please listen. It's beautiful. Are you sure it's not a turtle itself? That is a good point. It could be a turtle. The point is you only find it in King's Landing, and it sustains itself on the waist of other creatures.

45:28Ronnie Karam: it's beautiful great love it did you just tell me about a poo poo eating bug

45:36Ben Mandelker: you know I I was hoping you would tell me how my rain would go but learning about a dung beetle is also very exciting and when summer returns

45:47Ronnie Karam: go back to Joseph and the amazing technicolor dream coat just at least there's songs in that

45:53Ben Mandelker: if you eat food I will pretend to care about the beetle turtle thing. She's like, you don't care about it. You're pretending. All the things you say you care about are ugly. This place is ugly. You yourself, ugly.

46:10Ronnie Karam: Damn. Well, we are sisters. So... Don't poke at the gene pool that you crawled out of, okay? Young lady.

46:20Ben Mandelker: I don't know. Martin Lawrence Ballard did this room. I think it's actually quite stunning. But that's fine.

46:28Ronnie Karam: so she's like eat or you will force my hand she's like no i won't i'm gonna keep making this art on this blanket that no one's gonna even notice until i'm dead and so ray ray has people come in and force feed her like hold her mouth open and pour soup down her throat yeah oh geez ray ray just every decision i was surprised that she even cared if she eats what does she care she doesn't want that baby to be born anyway i think is it like a weird i think she wants to get she wants to know about the prophecies i think she wants to use helena she wants to connect yeah i think she wants that and i think on some level

47:08Ben Mandelker: she still feels like she like she has a deal with allicent on you know but um yeah ray ray just her soft skills are really terrible she she proved that last week when she tried to coax information out of helena uh she just doesn't know how to manipulate she needs to learn from allison

47:26Ronnie Karam: so then um yeah and i get like depression i get you know i get everything that the character of helena is going through but at some point you just need to like question the food too like is this even good i mean that's what i was gonna say she's like here's what you're gonna eat and then they'd bring her in this terrible like unseasoned like white bean and cauliflower or puree. It's like, could you order a pizza? Or like, find the

47:52Ben Mandelker: beetle. Bring her some insects to look at in a little cage or something. Give her what she wants to watch. She's telling you what she needs. She needs a colorful beetle to play with.

48:05Ronnie Karam: Entertain her at least. Bring her some beetles she wrote. Let the beetle figure out some mysteries in the town.

48:11Ben Mandelker: Maybe you can bring her some music by her favorite band the Rolling Stones. Now, what did you think I was going to say to that? It's called a misdirect. Outside, Adam and Alan are hanging out and Adam is like, brother, will you march on Templeton as well? And Alan is like, no, because I've got to guard the queen. She's totally sane right now. He's like, oh, well, news of Aegon's return has set the queen on a dark path. She has grounded Bela and confined her to the keep. Did you know this alan and he's like of course i did we are making out these days but i'll pretend like i didn't so anyway the point is this it's dangerous so don't question her okay just just do what she

48:55Ronnie Karam: says it's like do not question authority and he's like oh really so our father's awaiting the gallo and ray ray rises you up in his place wow can't believe you're sticking up for her

49:07Ben Mandelker: guess someone wants a job he's like i have no ambition but to discharge my duty and then i'll see bail and discharge something else if you know what i'm saying high five high five oh sorry i forgot you'll discharge that booty yeah ray ray is leaving the castle and she gets in her little

49:28Ronnie Karam: uh carriage thing with joffrey so finally she's gotten joffrey in a moment where he's not asleep and made him dress up for Sunday school slash war. He's like, great. Can I have an iPad at least? That's going to be a long ride.

49:44Ben Mandelker: Now, Joffrey, unfortunately, this show has spent all of its production budget on a stupid fight that we're about to see. So we cannot pay you a day rate if you have a line. So just sit there and nod and smile at mummy. Otherwise, we have to pay SAG after more money. Okay. All right. Off to the high septum where nothing terrible will happen, sweet, sweet Joffrey.

50:05Ronnie Karam: So now, Tumbleton, everybody's preparing for a battle. And Darren and Gwaine see all the soldiers coming. And Darren's like, oh, my God, how are we going to face all of these soldiers? And Gwaine's like, bravely and pointlessly, welcome to war.

50:22Ben Mandelker: All right, here's what I will do. I'll go out there and I'll say, for those who want peace, drop trow and let me see what I can do for you. Okay? Like, no, Uncle, no. It's just too many men. He's like, I know. but I'm up for it. It's like, no, uncle, no, no, no. We can't do this. And then we see Ormond. He's like, all right. If all those who are younger than eight, please stand over here and hold up a shield. I am going to have you on the front lines of this battle. Here you go. I'm like, wow.

50:52Ronnie Karam: If you are not tall enough to ride Thunder Mountain, you are short enough to be on the front lines of this. Yes, children, get the innocents in the front.

51:02Ben Mandelker: They're doing a great job. I'm going to say he's the best villain this show has had for sure. They've done a great job with him.

51:11Ronnie Karam: Willingly putting children in the way. That's for sure. Puts all the children on the front lines. Yeah. Total villain. Yeah, they're like, sir, Ulf hasn't responded. We don't know where Ulf is. Well, we do. He's drunk somewhere. And this is what you get. That's your plan. The fucking dumb drunk.

51:30Ben Mandelker: Yeah, so Roxanne goes to find Ulf. And then Darren and Gwaine are sort of watching this from afar. Like, something's not right. He has some secret plot afoot. This is not good. Okay, we got to fix this. And they see all these kids. These kids are crying because they're being used as human shields. It's all fucked up. And so Darren's like, I'm going to get on my dragon. I'm going to do this. And Gwaine's like, no, don't do that. I'm telling you, officers respond very well to blowjobs. Just let me get out there. Let me do my magic.

52:03Ronnie Karam: um yeah darren's like but i have a dragon i need to fight it's my duty i'm gonna fight everybody with my dragon your dragon is as big as a fist okay you need to give your dragon a minute trying can't go fight anybody what the hell bro and gwayne tells him that basically he's like okay so now you're gonna become just another body for ormond you know among the countless dead and he's like what are my choices i either fight i flee or i change hair color actually that's actually a different option i haven't really thought of please don't let ormond go he's the best at dying and then they're like wait a second there's another thing we could do so uh meanwhile

52:42Ben Mandelker: caraxes is flying around and um all the guys are like yeah caraxes yes icon mother and ormond is running through the streets like he's like where's off where's off he's so mad and um down below in the dungeons uh darren and gwayne find corliss who's just sitting there and as some people online have noted there's almost a exact replica of the shot of ned stark sitting in the dungeons ahead of um ahead of his beheading itself so um no pun intended no pun intended don't lose your head

53:20Ronnie Karam: over it so they're like you want to change sides uh-huh you want to change sides what are you gonna do and um gwayne's like i've got another idea so he pulls out his sword and takes him but we don't know well i don't know not another digit but yeah seriously we don't know yet so then we go to king's landing and mazaria is going to her she's being escorted to her ships but then people are like hey hubbub hubbub oh did you hear that great roast that olf was doing making it over the pigeons. Everybody's talking about it. So they're all distracted and she runs away.

53:56Ben Mandelker: Yeah. Which is, the hubbub is because Rhaenyra is heading to the sept, the high sept. So yeah, Miseria runs away, which makes me a little sad because I kind of felt like, well, might as well take that mansion in Pentos. Right? Like, get your money, get your mansion. But she's like, no. So she goes off.

54:17Ronnie Karam: Well, she was there for budget meetings. She knows there is no money. She doesn't care about that anyway. She wants the power like everybody else. What did you say?

54:27Ben Mandelker: Yeah, you're totally right. She knows there's no money to be had. So meanwhile, in that little carriage, Joffrey's there like, I don't know what to do if I'm not in bed. And Ray Ray's like, You are my heir now, Joffrey. And the duty I pass to you is more than a simple rule. There is a story that your grandson told me and was told to him by the old king. and I pass it on to your brother following my own ascent. I will tell you the story because it's very, very private. I may tell everyone in about five minutes, but for right now, I'm just telling you.

55:03Ronnie Karam: Now, while I tell you the story on a very bumpy road, will you do my eyeliner?

55:13Ben Mandelker: So over in Dumbledore, Damon is making a little speech where he's talking to people and they're like, we're going to go this way and this way and there's a south wall and yada yada yada and then a guard is like hey my lords a high tower knight is approaching and they're like so? Kill him. Like no he's got Lord Corlys

55:36Ronnie Karam: so then Roderick, my favourite one of this episode. I love that guy he's like fuck me I've seen more meat on a butter's knife good god can I just kill him? Let me just kill the skinny little bastard.

55:51Ben Mandelker: Gwaine's like, well, you already know Lord Corliss. They're like, are you okay? Corliss's like, I'm fine. One finger down, but all in all, pretty good shape. So Gwaine is like,

56:06Ronnie Karam: Gwaine's like, listen, my cousin's crazy. He's a paparazzi addict. He doesn't even know. He's losing brain cells. He's crazy. Let's make a deal. We don't have to go to war. Let's just make a deal. you guys can have everything we'll just take this little town over here we'll be fine we'll roll over just let Darren rule over here you guys do everything else and we'll make a deal yeah and

56:30Ben Mandelker: um so they're like um yeah like not sure about this I mean I guess we could have like Darren could be like the county seat. He could be the do we have a zoning board? He can run the zoning board down there. Okay, let's have him run the zoning board. Like, no, no, no, no, no. He's going to be the king, not the zoning board. Oh, please just let me kill this

56:58Ronnie Karam: milk Sutherling cut fitness.

57:03Ben Mandelker: So, and Gwyn's like, listen, guys, the realm was once seven kingdoms before the Conqueror and we were divided, but we were at peace. okay so and corliss like stop stop you're both annoying me damon's like all right well i thought the high towers might have cut off your tongue as well thanks for weighing in and this is where corliss is like no no no he's not wrong okay just give him like a patch of land let him do his thing

57:27Ronnie Karam: or whatever and it's like plus nobody believes that a woman can rule anyway so that would take care of that at least you'd have a man around and damon's like oh please it was your wife who has passed over Corlys, okay? It's like, Rhaenyra sees the throne. It's like, oh, now, now we're talking about how a woman can't rule. It was fine when you wanted your wife to rule. And he was like, well, people aren't going to take it anyway. And Corlys says the queen has many dragons, but the great houses hesitate and people don't feel safe. And Aemon and Vhagar is still at large.

58:05Ben Mandelker: so just give them all to him okay let's call this a day well then and then daemon breaks the news like by the way aegon's back and his dragon's back you didn't know that right so yeah it's not as simple as this so yeah um so corlis is like well aegon and aemon would be common common enemy we could be all friends together and we could all go against those two and daemon's like no absolutely not. But Corlys is really trying for peace. He's like, we should have peace. I think we need to have peace. Otherwise, we're all gonna die. And Daemon's like, I don't understand that word peace. I am a Targaryen and I'm unhinged.

58:42Ben Mandelker: So, yeah, we're gonna fight.

58:45Ronnie Karam: Gwaine tries to give a little speech. He's like, you would cast away the lives of thousands. And then Daemon grabs him. I thought he stabbed him in the throat. I was like, damn. I thought he was just stabbing him, but he grabbed him by the neck. And he's like, yeah, guess who's gonna lead ray ray the ordained queen of the andals of the first men of beggars and thieves and cowards like you even all of the m &ms even support ray ray every single one of them a new valyria will rise from the ashes of her usurper half brothers and um he's like okay do you want to die here behind the balls okay get the hell out of here and so he lets go of gwayne he runs like hell.

59:28Ben Mandelker: Yeah, but they keep Corlys, of course. So Corlys is now the prisoner. It's like, why is Corlys a prisoner? So I guess it's for being traitorous. Well, he tried to propose peace. So they're like, okay, let's start the fight. Let's let it all happen. Meanwhile, over in Harrenhal, Aemond wakes up from yet another dream, and he hears a dragon, and he's like, oh my god, Vhagar? Is it Vhagar? Is it Vhagar? But it's Aegon, and Aegon has just arrived on Sunfire. And this is where Aegon, he's like, what? And this is where Aegon, famous, he goes, I'm alive. Impecile.

1:00:10Ronnie Karam: And he's like, please, I beg your forgiveness. He's like, what? I should split you in half. What, are you going to apologize now? I'm going to burn you. I'm going to make your skin blister. He's like, you should. I'm a real asshole. He's like, goddammit. why are you taking away the vine it's supposed to be vine when did you become so sensitive

1:00:32Ben Mandelker: so then Alice suddenly shows up because Aegon's like get up we're going to Tumbleton and she's like my prince cannot, his dragon abandoned him, he's like who are you some lady who can't even die she's like oh that was actually a really good read but uh

1:00:50Ronnie Karam: so Aegon's like listen you know I have a thing for older ladies. I've got mommy issues. I've found the oldest lady there is. Please.

1:01:00Ben Mandelker: Her skincare's amazing. She's my betrothed. And she's like, oh, well, that's nice. So Aegon's like, do you know what's happening out there? No. Rhaenyra declared me dead. And after you disappeared, that little twat, Daeron, decided he should be king. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to find Vhagar, fly to Tumbleton, and Badarin and that shit-heel Ormond in line. And then we're all going to march on King's Landing under my banner. And maybe when Rhaenyra's head is on a spike and I'm back on the Iron Throne, maybe then I'll forgive you for trying to fucking kill me.

1:01:39Ronnie Karam: You know, so...

1:01:40Ben Mandelker: By the way, they didn't go to Tumbledore. Did you realize? He just said their goal was they're going to go to... They're going to find Vhagar and go to Tumbledore. But I just assumed that meant that they'd be showing up at the battle this episode, but they never did.

1:01:54Ronnie Karam: Yeah, I thought so too. Because they get places so quickly on this show. Yeah, they don't have to go to Tumbleton. It's like, okay, I'll go kill my son. Hey, I'm here to kill my son. It's like, uh, how long, how close are you? Did you guys get subways?

1:02:08Ben Mandelker: By the way, is anyone else excited that Tumbleton is finally destroyed? I can't stand this little town. It's like all this drama over one small random town.

1:02:17Ronnie Karam: Yeah. Well, you know, when Tumble's in the title, it's not going to end well. It's just not good. I know. It's not good, too, too.

1:02:25Ben Mandelker: Commercials. Here comes one right now.

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1:03:56Ronnie Karam: So we go back to Tumbleton and they're doing war plans. And little Oscar Tully's like, aside from the main gate, there's another way in. And there's a, you know, we can get there. It's weak over there. So we'll try that part. And Damon's like, okay, fine. I'll burn the battlements over the main gate. And once they're clear of resistance, then we'll come with Caraxes for cover. My strong string bean of a dragon. God, I love that. Long ass dragon.

1:04:26Ben Mandelker: my dragon is very effective unless there's another dragon that's being a real jerk in which case my

1:04:32Ronnie Karam: dragon just has nowhere to be found yeah i do love caraxes he's like the cutest little string bean is it yeah but i don't know i mean i don't know i guess you're not just allowed to go start fighting oh anyway we'll get there we'll get there we'll get there so um he's like okay we have to preserve the town of the people for ray ray the realm is watching the The queen's moral standing must remain absolute. Like, you know that you're married to your, you know that you're talking about your niece who you're married to. It's like the morals in this family. I started sleeping with Ray Ray when she was like 14 years old.

1:05:11Ronnie Karam: Now, let me tell you, we have very strong morals in this family.

1:05:16Ben Mandelker: So Alison Blackwood is like, sounds boring. And Alison Blackwood, who is the one who murdered Kristen Cole, which is great. Um, she is the, like the great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother of Arya Stark, for those who are wondering. Um, so a, it's time, it's time that they're like, wait, like, uh, by the way, they put children up there. So just so you know, we have to deal with that now. And they're like, God damn it. What are we going to do now? And so Daemon's like, well, Lord Roderick, are you still prepared to die for our queen?

1:05:52Ronnie Karam: He's like, can't fucking wait. Can't fucking wait. He's like, all right. Love that guy. He's from Sons of Anarchy. Oh, is he? Left him for a long time. Yeah, he looks great in these kind of roles, you know? Like, just let him be long-haired and greasy.

1:06:08Ben Mandelker: Yeah, he had a great, this great episode for him. I mean, he's been here all season, but this is really the episode where he's shown. So, basically, he's like, all right, tell your Greybears to go over the walls, overwhelm them, open the gate, and then you can die. He's like, got it.

1:06:26Ronnie Karam: gate open then die yeah so when we go to king's landing uh ray ray is coming up to the high septum so the church and um they're like whoa whoa whoa this is a church you can't just bring uh guns in here listen this is like a movie theater in texas there is a sign that says no guns in here you know and she's like please the people of king's landing gather seeking to know who is ordained to lead them. You better tell them that I'm the boss, Pope.

1:06:58Ben Mandelker: And so the High Septon's like, well, I have already told you that such is impossible. And now after Aegon and his dragon have been resurrected, there could be no clear sign of whom the gods have chosen to rule. Princess.

1:07:12Ronnie Karam: And she's like, religion, schmilagin, you make me the queen right now. And he's like, no. And he says, you may have six dragons, but I have a seven-faced God. And I'm sorry, but this is not how it works. You don't get the whole conservative community on your side this quickly, okay? You've got to make rounds to churches. You've got to be seen on camera praying and stuff like that. And she's like, no, do it right now. You're a traitor. And she's like, get him, everybody. And Alan's like, you want me to kill the Pope? And she's like, do it. You have to do it. Right now. You are the blood of old Valyria.

1:07:55Ronnie Karam: You answer to a higher god than this. To them, this house, an empty work of brick and stone. Kill him. And he does. What the hell? Alan does not like this.

1:08:04Ben Mandelker: He just walks up and stabs his ass. Alan is not happy. Because the guy's like, you are going to go to the deepest of seven hells. You're going to hell, hell, hell, hell, hell. And Alan's like, uh. Uh. It just kills him. And yeah, murder in Vatican City is basically what this is like. And it's going to be, we know it's not going to be good.

1:08:31Ronnie Karam: It's terrible. It's like every single one is like, what? Now you're killing the Pope, girl. You're going to lose the people.

1:08:38Ben Mandelker: So Ray Ray is like, okay. I voted for you. She's like, I got to get ahead of the story. So she steps out of this septum in her black metal outfit with her crown. And she's like, Before his death, my father Viserys the Peaceful named me his heir. Not in secret, but in ceremony. Hundreds of lords traveled hundreds of leagues to swear. Everyone knows it. I am the queen. Okay. So guess what? There was a prophecy. It began with the doom. When fire and hell erupted to destroy old Valeria and her people. And only the Targaryens survived. By the way, we're kind of the best. We're the only ones who survived.

1:09:15Ben Mandelker: And my family alone was spared because the gods wanted it. And I came back and we were called the protector of the world of men. Well, guess what? There's a prophecy. It's called the Song of Fire and Ice.

1:09:29Ronnie Karam: Here she goes. She's like, there's a prophecy my dad knew and you all better listen to me. And she's trying to be this big inspirational speaker. And they're all looking at her like, cuckoo. The hell? We don't know what you were talking about. Does anybody have a pigeon recording of Ulf? Because that guy knows how to do it. That guy knows how to do it. What is this cuckoo bird talking about? And then she switches into High Valerian. And they're like, what?

1:09:54Ben Mandelker: They're like, yeah, she's doing this. She basically says, I am the prince that was promised. They're like, we don't know what she's saying. And I think I may know. I was the prince that was promised. Who promised who? What? You can't just like spring a prophecy on us and then say, actually, not only here's a prophecy that you never knew about. But on top of that, I actually fulfilled that prophecy. It's like, whoa, that's like a lot. You have to first like introduce the prophecy, get people to buy in on it. And then you have to say that you are the culmination of it.

1:10:26Ronnie Karam: Yeah. And you're up there with her like crazy eyeliner and her, like everything she's, everything is just wrong. They're like a girl, you just killed our religious leader. What? So there's no applause or anything. It's just her looking out at the audience like, check please so then we go to tumbled in and uh now damon's giving his speech and he's like listen up motherfuckers whether we live or die today you'll remember it in history as if anyone's really alive to write it down after which who fucking knows all right go get them kill them so roderick takes uh the gray beards up and they start they get ready to go and the arrows come at them and they fall right in front of them and he's like bring it on your cut fitnesses

1:11:13Ben Mandelker: yeah and then the fight is the fight is on and you know the people the town are like hiding and cowering and everyone's coming in and they're the men are attacking to go up the walls and it's a lot of hatchets to the face and arrows and eyeballs and it's just blood and gore

1:11:29Ronnie Karam: and they're pouring uh like scalding oil or water down the ladders and getting them so you're

1:11:36Ben Mandelker: watching them burn and meanwhile ormond is not leading the battle he is stomping around the town looking for ulf and they're like we don't know where ulf is and they're like by the way uh the battle began so yeah and then once someone says and also by the way daemon didn't accept uh king darren's terms and ormond's like terms what terms and so he's now realizing that people are undermining him.

1:12:07Ronnie Karam: Yeah, and he's like, I need my weapon, where's Ulf? And so then we go to Gwaine searching for Darren, we don't know where Darren is. Roderick finally makes it over the wall, starts just hatcheting people in the face, and then there's a boy who strikes him on the leg, and so he thinks about it, and he's like, oh god, this is just a kid. Well, fuck it, hatchet him in the face too.

1:12:32Ben Mandelker: He just

1:12:33Ronnie Karam: he just gets that kid right in the face um brutal oh my gosh everything i mean there's a lot of

1:12:42Ben Mandelker: slaughter a lot of crazy moats are on fire everything is going crazy um and uh damon is meanwhile damon's like where is ulf by the way we don't know where ulf is it's like how do you not know where ulf is he has a very large dragon and they're like well we're we're with the dragon

1:13:02Ronnie Karam: but Ulf's not there. He's like, oh, damn it. And so Roderick and his guys are still fighting. They're going for the gate, but now they're still fighting. They can't get through the gate. So Damon sees Vermithor flying, and that's Hugh Hammer's dragon. And it's like, what the fuck is he doing here? He's not supposed to be here either. You guys have to train your employees. My God. And Hugh, I think, is getting really... He's getting off really easy. He's getting good at it no one is no one is like what the fuck and what's up with you because ulf really takes the the cake for this one but hugh hammer what the fuck are you doing too he's not being helpful

1:13:42Ben Mandelker: because while he's you know he is he is he's messing up he's messing up in two different ways because he's not protecting the castle which he'll need to do since agon is going to head over there and as and if he's here at this battle he's not helping out with this battle which he has needed to do because he's looking for cat so he's really kind of like failing in many it's almost like a worst failure because ulf ulf can't be you know no one has high expectations of both but hugh hammer i thought was gonna be a reliable soul yeah but he's just i mean ultimately they all just want

1:14:15Ronnie Karam: fame you know he wanted the fame that's why he did it then his wife got pissed and she's like what he's like but why are you pissed i'm famous you better come with me she's like no but I'm famous now yeah

1:14:29Ben Mandelker: so basically there's just more fighting and then essentially Damon is is this where Caraxes burns open the door?

1:14:40Ronnie Karam: well they send all the boys and the children outside the gate so that Damon will stop and Damon's like well what are you going to do? so he burns them too and then burns the gate down and crashes through the gate yeah so then eventually uh like superhero mode where it's like daemon versus 90 people and he's doing pretty well until a guy that looks like the mountain comes up and starts fighting him

1:15:06Ben Mandelker: fighting that's ormond's like that's roxton ormond's like right hand man and meanwhile ormond does finally find uh ulf uh who is like passed out on a toilet essentially so he just grabs ulf and throws him to the ground he's like get up you worthless sot all you had to do was sit on your fucking dragon. They're inside the walls, you useless baseboard stump. You may have cost us everything. Get back on that beast and do as you've been told. And this is a huge mistake for Ormond because Ulf is now, he's really petulant at this point, and he does not like being spoken to this way.

1:15:40Ronnie Karam: Well, the whole way he got him on his side was being like, oh, Damon hit you. We would never disrespect you. Take the biggest mansion in town. Like, you got it. You're a king. We're gonna kiss your ass and then he does what damon did you know and beats him and humiliates him in front of everybody so not not great buddy i mean of course your pants are down by your ankles and you've got poopoo all over you and you did fall asleep on the toilet but god forbid ulf ever looks at himself

1:16:08Ben Mandelker: as the problem you know he must have been really wasted there's a full-on battle happening outside and he's sleeping through it so uh then damon's still fighting with roxton they're exchanging words they're sword fighting and then ulf now has made it to his dragon i don't know how he got to his dragon or where his dragon was hiding but somehow he got from the streets onto his dragon and now is flying over the battlefield so everyone starts to cheer like oh oh yay it's great everyone's so excited and i guess we see that elf goes to bounce his dragon uh i forgot there was a scene where he goes like up to the hillside and he gets on his dragon and there's a guy who's like oh well your dragon's right here.

1:16:49Ben Mandelker: And then just, that guy gets killed. But anyway, he gets on the dragon.

1:16:54Ronnie Karam: We see Hugh Hammer's wife too. She's trying to hide, but soldiers come into her home and use her as a human shield against the other soldiers.

1:17:03Ben Mandelker: Exactly. So, Gwaine finds Darren. Darren's down with his dragon. Gwaine's like, it didn't work. So, Gwaine's like, Look, he's like, the plan failed, okay?

1:17:18Ronnie Karam: And he's like, so you're going to die now, Darren. And he's like, no, I will not be remembered as a Kraven. He's like, well, if you stay with your dragon, you're just going to die anyway. I've served with plenty of brave men. One of them was even really good at painting shields. And I really liked him. He was hot, okay? So don't think that you're not going to die. And don't think that you're going to have more glory if you just die out fighting. It's stupid. Don't do it. please for Ormond's vanity just come with me and then the dragon's like really you know he's like he's like oh please get your dragon off of me he's like stay back

1:17:58Ben Mandelker: and then meanwhile outside this is when the this is when Ulf flies over the daemon's army and they're all cheering like Ulf but then Ulf burns them up he's like oh too bad for you so he starts burning them up but daemon's inside and daemon's fighting so he doesn't really see this but it's like i'm like whoa what is happening here also like so caraxes is just chilling out while this happens like caraxes doesn't like have any sort of response to this like what's like what's going on well i think they show him

1:18:28Ronnie Karam: caraxes is with the army still outside because caraxes has been told stay and so he's like okay and then that dragon's on our side but then you know i mean i don't know i don't know who knows

1:18:41Ben Mandelker: what's going through a dragon's mind yeah um so then so ulf is flying around on silverwing and then daemon and roxan are fighting and uh it's it's getting really really bad and it looks like roxan is going to actually defeat daemon but the thing is that um then well we cut away from that we they fight for a very long time we keep cutting back to them and it's just never it's just it's going on for a very, very long time. But now we go up to Roderick and he's looking for Ormond and they fight and Ormond cuts off his arm. And it's like this very campy, gory moment where like Roderick has like, he's missing a limb and like blood is just coming out of his arm.

1:19:24Ben Mandelker: He's like,

1:19:27Ronnie Karam: and Ormond's like, for like the third time, cause he was just barfing with Ulf on the toilet. And now he's here with this bloody thing coming at him. And he's like, and then Roderick is able to get him again and stabs him right in the butthole. He's like, oh, yeah, that's a proper fucking by the north.

1:19:46Ben Mandelker: But then here comes Silverwing and they look up and there's Ulf with Silverwing and Ulf is like, yeah, fuck you too, bro. So he goes and he burns them both up and Roderick's like, yeah! And Ormond is like, ah! And they both perish in the fire.

1:20:04Ronnie Karam: Jesus. Oh, oh my god. I was hoping when Ormond attacked But Ulf, that Ulf was going to be like, I'm going to go back with the other army. At least he didn't beat me on the toilet. Yeah. But no, he burns both of them. Burns the shit out of both of them. And then we start getting shots of like, isn't, look at Darren, because Darren's getting his ass kicked, by the way. Yes. Until all this goes down. And so Darren has a lot of those moments where everything gets silent and he sees all the kids hurt. Damon, yeah. Damon, yes. and he sees everybody you know all the kids and all the women hurting and he has that moment of like wow is we're really bad if you think i was like about it like this it's like okay

1:20:47Ben Mandelker: it's like a little late dude exactly well also the the creators in the after show were like we didn't want to glorify battle we want to show that there was a real cost like now putting in like 30 seconds of you know slow-mo and essentially having what a wonderful world playing it's not enough like it's just stupid it's like a i was like this is just such a hammy little moment just it's a battle we get it we're not glorifying it it's all terrible just just go forward

1:21:17Ronnie Karam: yeah so daemon's about yeah they're like wow look at daemon feeling things guys too late and this isn't the first time daemon's been on one of those things burning the shit out of everybody either you know yeah so uh not that it was him it was all this time but it's like wow the damage of dragons it's really different here on the ground

1:21:37Ben Mandelker: we should also mention that Damon and Ulf saves Damon inadvertently because Ulf's destruction causes like the roof to collapse on an arch and then it like separates Damon and Roxton so Damon's able to get out of the way and so he's having this moment and then he starts killing people again and then Coralus finds him and is like uh we gotta go it's over

1:21:57Ronnie Karam: yeah he's like we lost like the town is lost we're leaving and he's just like I'm gonna fight So he drags him out of there. And then we go to Helena's room in King's Landing, and she's looking at her tapestry, and she's just finished, what was it in the tapestry? Like a building on fire, right? So I think it was this war. Yeah. Is that right? Is that what she saw?

1:22:18Ben Mandelker: Maybe. And then she starts going towards the window, at which point you're like, uh-oh. And then Gwaine, he wakes up. He's like in the middle of all the ruins, and he's like, ugh. He's like, Darren, Darren. He's trying to find Darren. Someone finds Ormond. And then Hugh Hammer. Hugh Hammer, who is not helpful at all in this situation. He finds Kat and she's dead. And he's like, oh, Kat. I'm like, honestly, like, enough. Sorry.

1:22:49Ronnie Karam: It makes me crazy in shows like this. And they do it in so many shows. There's a show called Paradise that I watch right now where the main character. It's like, everybody's dying. It's the end of the world. And when it comes to them, it's like, well, you know, stay strong. That's what it is. Land of the world. Sorry. Sorry. Can't help you over there. But then when it comes close to you, it's like, oh, like, look, it's just happening because you're not doing your fucking job, sir.

1:23:15Ben Mandelker: You do realize like you could have been on your dragon and you could have torched Ulf. And instead you took all this time just to get to Kat. And why did it take you so long? You know exactly where she lives. I don't know. Yeah. And why were you there so late? Why did you get there so late? You knew the battle was going to begin. Why did you show up so late and get to her so late? I don't know. I think that Hugh, he's just useless. Yeah, Hugh sucks too.

1:23:43Ronnie Karam: So then we go to Ray Ray coming back. And Linda is like, oh my God, my queen. And so she sends her up to Helena's room. and she's been told what happened. We don't know yet, but she walks out to the window and just kind of looks down and then she notices the blanket, the tapestry, or the needle point or whatever that Helena has been working on and looks at it. But she doesn't read the whole thing. I thought she was going to be like, oh, well now I'll read it. But no, Helena's jumped out the window. She's dead.

1:24:20Ben Mandelker: She's on spikes. and she has actually sewn her own death into the tapestry, which I feel like doesn't count as a prophecy because if you're sawing your own fate, like you can just decide to do that, you know? But she also sews that there's an image of what looks to be Ray Ray on the throne, surrounded by flames and like blood coming out everywhere. So that's not a good sign. Also, notably, one thing I saw, I spent some time watching the opening credits this week. I noticed that the tapestry in the opening credits catches on fire for the first time this season and like it all burns up. And there were some other things in there that I hadn't seen before.

1:24:54Ben Mandelker: Well, they included Aegon and Sunfire in the tapestry this time. And they took out the battle with the Triarchy. And I was like, I'm going to pay attention this time around. But yeah, we should have known just by the tapestry burning up in the opening credits that this was going to be bad for Helena. So yeah, she's dead there on a spike. And then we see Alicent. She's walking through the forest. And then a whole bunch of blue butterflies sort of rise up from nowhere and surround her. and uh alison's alison has her standard look which is like huh what huh but she sort of feels like

1:25:25Ronnie Karam: oh this is probably a sign yeah something big's just happened dun dun dun and then we just end with uh ray ray closing the window she's like okay well that's done just close that window and that's the end i thought it was such a great episode and a really good season but then I got so upset that we have to wait I'm upset about two things I'm upset that

1:25:49Ben Mandelker: we'll have to wait like two years and I'm also upset that we only get one more season like they finally got the show to me in like a really really really good place and I want like two more seasons maybe you know like why not let's let's uh let's go for it no no I need it to I need it to end I

1:26:10Ronnie Karam: I need to have an ending to things because I'm, I usually wait and binge things. I don't watch things week to week, kind of how you watched Game of Thrones when you just binged it all at once. It is painful having to wait so many years. I know. And then having to watch it again. Like, you know, and it's not bad watching. It's a great show. But I watched season two again before this one because I just don't remember things as well. So I need, you know, I'm going to have to watch it a million times before even the next season. So, yeah, I'm glad that there's going to be an ending, but this was a lot.

1:26:44I know.

1:26:45Ben Mandelker: I feel like I'm finally truly invested in the show. Like I have true things that I care about, not sort of like passing. Like, you know, in the seasons one and two, I'd watch and I would sort of care about things. And then when the show would be over, I wouldn't think about it. I didn't care about it. I didn't go on social media. But now things happen and I really care and I really want to know what's going to happen. and I see all these different things and I want to live in this world a bit longer. And so it's upsetting to me that I feel like the show has finally tightened up and gotten to a place that I thought it should have been all this time.

1:27:22Ben Mandelker: And then now we're only going to get one more season's worth. So it's, you know, but whatever. Rather than dwelling on what we don't get to have, let's dwell on what we did get to have, which was a great third season. The best so far.

1:27:33Ronnie Karam: Yeah, it was a really good one. All right, everybody. Well, thank you so much for being here with us this season. It's been great times. What a delight. Yes. Yeah. All right, everybody. Join us over on our regular podcast, Watch What Crappens. We'll talk to you later. Bye.

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1:29:54Ronnie Karam: The incredible edible Matthews sisters. She eases our woes. It's Melissa St. Rose. There's a chance of meatballs. It's Rebecca Cloud. She's our princess. It's Rebecca Prince.

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1:30:19Ronnie Karam: She ain't no shrinking Violet Kuchar. We love you guys.

1:30:27Ronnie Karam: This episode is sponsored by Nature Raised Farms. There are so many complicated things on Bravo. Like opening the front door on Summer House. Or figuring out how to wear a Linfinity dress. Or understanding Tom Schwartz's purpose on the Valley.

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1:30:46Ronnie Karam: Especially chicken. But the freezer aisle often makes it that way. Too many options, too many additives, too many compromises.

1:30:54Ben Mandelker: Do I like complicated chicken? No. No.

1:30:57Ronnie Karam: Chicken should be fun.

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1:31:20Ronnie Karam: joy in it and we love quiet joy like the moment erica jane puts down her microphone keep your life simple with your new favorite chicken. Nature Raised Farms Chicken, because chicken shouldn't be complicated. This episode is sponsored by McDonald's.

1:31:35Ben Mandelker: I'm having my hot Caesar summer, Ronnie. Yes. Caesar sauce. I feel like we don't talk about Caesar sauce enough because it's so, so good. I love to dip everything into it. Have you ever dipped fries in Caesar sauce before?

1:31:47Ronnie Karam: I mean, I just have. It is delicious. Caesar sauce is like a Parmesan, garlicky blend with some lemon in it, and you can dip anything in there.

1:31:55Ben Mandelker: One thing I have been known to do is to stop over at McDonald's and go to the drive-thru and get myself a Caesar snack wrap and just dip some fries in the Caesar sauce. Also, the crispy strips in the Caesar sauce. Honestly, try it. It's really good.

1:32:09Ronnie Karam: Listen, I say if you put Caesar sauce on something, that automatically makes it better. Yes, that's really all you need is the Caesar sauce.

1:32:17Ben Mandelker: I think I just want to have just a constant supply of Caesar sauce and put it on things at all times.

1:32:24Ronnie Karam: Yeah, I'm a straight up French fry and Caesar sauce kind of a boy. That's what I love and that's how I'm going to go down.

1:32:29Ben Mandelker: Right now at participating McD's, the$2.99 Caesar snack wrap is making me rethink my go-to order.

1:32:38Ronnie Karam: Caesar sauce at participating McDonald's for a limited time.

1:32:41Ben Mandelker: Prices and participation may vary.

1:32:47Ben Mandelker: Back to school is busy enough.

1:32:49Ronnie Karam: The last thing you need is shopping that makes it harder.

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