Bitcoin Is Still Winning | Cory Klippsten

26:38And if you can build trust through education and content and signal and actually have taste and only promote things that are true, not things that are false. You know, long before I went after Do Kwan for his bullshit and all of the big Twitter accounts and Bitcoin quote unquote podcasts sucking off Do Kwan in early 22, I had already gone hard at Plan B and his fake models starting in 2020. And that was because I, I needed to, I basically needed people to stop talking about them when they were guests on our shows. So we would have like Swan Signal Live and somebody would come on and start talking about this bullshit.

27:18And I don't want bullshit going out to our audience. Yeah. And so I had to explain and sit down and show how the math works and what the stats are and like explain in detail why he was full of shit starting in 2020. But the main reason was so that people would know not to talk about that shit when they're on Swan platforms. Interesting. Like don't even bring that here. Yeah. So that was the way that I handled that. And, you know, enough people got the signal and we stopped, you know, accident because we would never promote it. And we had people stop accidentally promoting fake models on Swan shows.

27:52So, basically, where we're at is we have built a massive media engine at Swan. Since inception, if you think of the Bitcoin-only YouTube channels, we not only have more views than any other Bitcoin-only channel, like I think it was 57 million views or something all time versus I think number two is in the 30s or something like that. the next most from a Bitcoin financial services company is like 2 million. So it's, you know, 25 times more views than any other Bitcoin financial services company. And it's similar on Twitter and, you know, kind of anywhere you look are massive, massive content operation.

28:39And, and it's because our client base gives a shit. And that's just like, that's what you, that's what you have to care about. You have to be maniacal about it. And it's a slow burn because you can't, you can't get to millions and millions of followers right away because you're not chasing eyeballs because you're not monetizing through media. This is, so this is one of the things that, I mean, I literally only monetize through media because that's, that's this business, but it is one of the things that I struggle with in, in that I could, you know, clickbait my shows way more. I could make them much more extreme and alarmist and get more views.

29:11But I don't feel like you build a good audience doing that. Like I want a core group of listeners who like care about Bitcoin. They want to hear like real Bitcoin conversations, not someone just telling you it's going to go to a million dollars next week. But that's like quite a fine line to balance. Like I just put out a show with Saylor this morning and like if I had have done like the YouTube thing and had him like screaming on the thumbnail and I'm sure it could have done more views, but like brand is so important that you have to kind of tread that balance and it's really hard to do. Yeah.

29:43So the, the, the monetization for people who stick to high signal and tell the truth and like try to seek out the truth and actually share that as opposed to just chasing, uh, eyeballs, uh, always comes in the side door. So it's basically business opportunities that come to you because people respect you. Yeah. And so then you get to do some kind of partnership or a conference or whatever it is. I mean, that's how you monetize basically is equity and cash flow from other things. Totally. So it's your signpost. You see a lot of like some of the best creators on YouTube don't have sponsors, you know, and they monetize their community through Patreon sometimes.

30:21But a lot of times they just monetize through speaking engagements. Interesting. Right. So like, if you think of, we love to hate Peter Zion for his, the geopolitics guy that's always hiking because he says Bitcoin's, you know, going to go negative, whatever that means. But at the end of the day, you know, he doesn't take sponsorship. Yeah. And he just, people like the way he presents information and it's good enough. And he gets really lucrative speaking gigs, you know, so it comes in somewhere else. He's not trying to monetize through advertising. If you already self-custody your Bitcoin, you know the deal with hardware wallets.

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32:10The application took me less than 15 minutes and in a few hours I had the dollars in my account. It was really smooth. So if you need cash, but you don't want to sell Bitcoin, head over to leaden.io forward slash WBD and you'll get 0.25 % off your first loan. That's leaden.io forward slash WBD. The show up I would say this day was interesting. I'm sure you've not listened to it yet because it only went out sort of four hours ago or something. But I asked him a pretty basic question. I wasn't trying to be inflammatory with it. Like I was just asking, has the model changed now with the preferred strategy offer where just sort of issuing debt to buy Bitcoin has become less interesting to the market?

32:51And of the 200 plus treasury companies, how many can actually be sustained sort of as of right now? And he kind of yelled at me. He called me ignorant and myopic a couple of times. But which I didn't. I will say, I will say I only saw like a 30 second clip. And in that clip, it did seem like he was kind of talking about the proverbial you. I think, yeah. So I think he was using you as like a proxy for the crowd or something. Yeah, that could be true as well. So I took it like he was talking to me, but I had to have a few people say that, that maybe it was more having a go at kind of the Bitcoin Twitter armchair critics.

33:29Yeah. But at the time, at least I took it as me. So I was kind of taking it back. I was a bit shocked. And one of the interesting things, again, that happened in 25 is I think a lot of the first Bitcoin buyers were buying treasury companies rather than actual Bitcoin. But how sustainable do you think that model is going into this year? So first, let's talk about what we're actually discussing. So I would say that Saylor and everyone else did themselves kind of a disservice by labeling it all Bitcoin treasury companies, where that includes anyone that has Bitcoin on their balance sheet. Obviously, they're not all trying to increment BTC per share maniacally through capital markets activity.

34:11Yeah. Like what Bitcoin did as a Bitcoin treasury company. Sure. Yeah. As, as is Swan and as is, you know, some of my own personal LLCs, right? Like old Bitcoin. Um, so that's not what Tesla is. That's not what, you know, most of these companies are. It's not what GameStop is, you know, like most of these are not, uh, the ones that are trying to do what micro strategy does and has done are rightfully called leveraged Bitcoin equities, LBEs, which is, I've stuck to that and I haven't heard a better term. I think I put that out in like fall of 24 and I still think it's the best term for those that are trying to do that.

34:49Internationally, there's one company basically off the starting block, which is Metaplanet that has scale and can do debt and can lever up basically. In the US, there's two only. There's only two. There's MicroStrategy and Strive, and that's it. No one else has permanent leverage that you can buy in a ticker. So the primary function of an LBE should be that you can get leveraged exposure to Bitcoin just by buying a ticker in your brokerage account, and it has perpetual leverage. So it's always 1.2x Bitcoin or 1.3X Bitcoin or something like that. Why does Strive have it when like a Semler or someone like that doesn't?

35:31What's the difference? Well, they bought Semler and that's how they got to scale and got off the starting block. Basically to add perpetual leverage, kind of where the market's at is you need at least$500 million of unencumbered Bitcoin nav because the institutions that want to invest in your first pref, your first preferred perpetual preferred offering are wanting a minimum of 125 million in that deal. And they want a minimum of 4X coverage. So that's 125 times four is the 500. So if you don't have 500 million of unencumbered Bitcoin nav, you're not in the game. You're not a leveraged Bitcoin equity.

36:10You can't give somebody leveraged Bitcoin exposure in a ticker the way you can with MicroStrategy and Strive. I see. And so everyone else from Sequans, which Swan advised, which is like a New York stock exchange listed French semiconductor company. It's like IoT and semis to Empory to Procap to Naka. And I think those are really the four. There's one more I'm missing. I can't remember. Anyway, there's at least four, maybe five that are, you know, kind of 2000 plus coins or something like that in the USA that are close, but aren't in the game yet because they can't lever up yet. So they have to basically wait for Bitcoin price to rise enough so that the Bitcoin that they do have that's unencumbered by convertible bonds, convertible notes, whatever, right?

37:01Because that doesn't count. It has to be the stuff that's not already pledged to buyers of a convert. Yeah. So to get that, you need Bitcoin price to rise or you need to do something inorganic like a combination or you need to get somebody to come in with like a new pipe and just create a bunch of new shares into a private investment into public equity and decide that you're the horse to back. So you don't think it's over for these companies in terms of business model? It's just like Bitcoin price will fix this eventually? Bitcoin price or deals or like a sentiment change will fix this. Yeah, but there's a limited, it's not 200 companies.

37:34It's like two are live and there's like four or five trying. And that's it right now. Everybody else is like tiny and LARPing. Interesting. So do you think, you know - Well, they have Bitcoin on their balance sheet, which is, has, there's a whole host of other reasons. I mean, we have thousands of business clients at Swan. So obviously like we believe there are very good reasons to have some Bitcoin on a business's balance sheet, but you're not serving the same function and you're not in competition with MicroStrategy just because you stack some Bitcoin. Yeah. And they're the businesses that I'm really bullish on.

38:05Just, you know, like good businesses that have nothing to do with Bitcoin, they just have Bitcoin on the balance sheet. That's awesome. I love that. I want to see every company do that. Yeah. Now, I mean, there's some question as to whether, you know, that's a good way to get Bitcoin exposure, if that's a good use of capital versus growing the business, which is, you know, the hurdle rate. And it's basically like, if you if your expectations are that Bitcoin is going to grow X percent, then you always have this kind of back and forth of like, should I use that Bitcoin to grow the business? If I don't use that Bitcoin to grow the business, I'm implicitly admitting to the market that I don't know how to actually make money.

38:40Yeah. So this is what you're going to run into with these big Cantor SPACs, right? So Cantor has the 30 ,000 coins back and the 25 ,000 coins back. And it's like, okay, what are you going to do with the Bitcoin if you are not going to do the micro strategy thing and try to lever up and do perpetual preferreds, whatever, you're going to try to be an operating business. like, how are you going to deliver a return on assets that justifies the existence of your company? And it really doesn't pass muster for the most part with corporate finance people, like analysts in the street and like anybody looking at these things like they're, it's unknown what those piles of Bitcoin are for.

39:22So that's just a time will tell thing. Time will tell. Time will tell. Yeah, I mean, it was kind of, I think, in both of those cases, most, I mean, the vast majority, maybe all of the BSTR Bitcoin was contributed into a Cayman entity, BSTRC, and I think was all Bitcoin being contributed. So it's just like an option value. And I don't, it's opaque. So you can't tell and see, you know, whether they can get it back for some reason someday or not. Like, I don't know if it's like fully gone and checked in or not. It might be a call option value. Like if the stock does well, then we'll sell the shares and buy Bitcoin back later.

40:06Who knows? I don't know how that works. And then the whole thing with, you know, Tether and Cantor and SoftBank, like that's a Tether thing. So who knows, you know, what they'll do or why. It could just be a favor machine to try to leverage it for being able to hire Bohinds for things. It just may be a way to distribute favors and they don't care what happens with the stock at all. But again, it's deliberately not in competition with MicroStrategy. They've openly stated that it's going to try to make business. I think ProCap is off the market too. ProCap has said they're going to try to generate yield and be a Bitcoin financial services firm someday or whatever it is.

40:46They're going to try to be an operating business. They're not in that business of trying to aggressively use capital markets on a daily basis to try to stack Bitcoin per share like MicroStrategy and StriVe are. Interesting. So, I mean, it's really going to be the next few years is going to kind of wash this out and see what's actually useful in the market. I can't imagine we get another paper Bitcoin summer where hundreds of these treasury companies are popping up. There never were hundreds that popped up. There were hundreds that tried last summer. only four got the deal done. All that rush around the Bitcoin conference in Vegas and everything, like four actually got done.

41:22Four deals. The rest are just... No one else did. So Sequans got done, Empree got done, ProCap got done, and there's one more I'm forgetting that got off the starting block, and that was it. Like with a scaled raise of hundreds of millions of dollars, there were four. Interesting. So it was a lot of noise. Yeah. And then, of course, the altcoins piled in because Lubin saw that there was like so much noise and heat and that you're basically just completely destroying the thesis. If the only people that cared about Bitcoin as an investment, you know, were plowing, or if only people that cared about, you know, cryptos as an investment, it was Bitcoin only.

41:58So he just put a bunch of his own money to work and, you know, enriched people to get a little ecosystem of, you know, what I call shats, shitcoin asset treasury companies, instead of they all tried to, they tried to put Bitcoin and crypto under one umbrella again, the street did by calling them DATs. So that was actually the mistake of calling them Bitcoin treasury companies is, you know, I think LBEs was better because then it allowed them to create an umbrella term for DATs. And then they, Wall Street calls them Bitcoin DATs. So, you know, MicroStrategy is a Bitcoin DAT versus this, you know, Solana DAT that Pomp is backing versus this AVAX DAT that, you know, Mooch is backing or whatever.

42:36So they tried that again. And that also sucked a lot of the energy out of the market because those were just such blatant money grabs. Interestingly, and I know you love inside baseball. I love inside baseball. So the Bitcoin, I'm sorry, the, the, the chats were just an evolution of what's already been going on in that market for a long time, which is how do insiders of shit coin pump and dumps sell their tokens without crashing the price on an open exchange and without people being able to see those things like move on chain showing that like the Hoskinsons and the Garling houses of the world are dumping on their marks heads.

43:14And so historically that was mostly done through the shitcoin asset management businesses. So this was like Osprey, Bitwise, uh, wave digital in LA, like these guys. So they basically set up as asset management shops, but what they actually are is insider token brokers. And so basically you would get like an example would be like, um, You know, and by the way, like everybody's a mixed bag. Like I don't do everything perfectly. Don't make every decision right. And like, you know, blah, blah, blah. So I'm not, I'm not, I actually like, I quite like the Bitwise guys. I like what Jeff did when he was there.

43:47I think that, what's his name? Matt Haugen, like really good Bitcoin advocate, right? They do other things. I get that. But like, you know, so we're talking, I would say Bitwise is like dramatically net positive for Bitcoin. Yep. But they also historically have done some other things. And so I'm like, not going to not talk about it. So they did like, and Osprey had 19 of these, by the way, at least single token trusts. I just happened to know, you know, secondhand. So again, I'm not going to, let's put this all under allegedly, but allegedly the Bitwise Aave single token trust, they took$300 million worth of Aave tokens from insiders.

44:28So insider VCs and founders and loaded up this trust fund thing with that$300 million AUM. And then they market that fund and say, Hey, look, we've got all these assets, like you should buy it too. But nobody actually put up cash for it. And so every time they sell a million dollars of it, they immediately, the insiders redeem that. And so basically you're, you know, so you basically, you check in your shit coin to one of these trusts at the asset managers, the crypto asset managers and you pay them like 1 % per year to be your broker. And you're just offloading the whole time. And all you're doing is just trying to sell off what you checked in.

45:08And so the shitcoin asset treasuries are the same thing. So it's basically they load it up with their random tokens and it's just a new way for them to try to dump it on retail's heads. Interesting. Or dumb institutions, family offices, whatever. I mean, family offices are often the best mark for stuff like that. See, I think Bitwise have been good for Bitcoin too, broadly. I like that they support developers with part of their ETF money. But one thing that I have seen them doing recently is pumping Zcash a lot, along with all the other Silicon Valley VCs. And I listen to All In, and I mean, I don't even like the podcast, but I like to hear the perspectives of the people on All In.

45:47And Chamath was pumping Zcash again over the last few weeks. What do you think that's about? They have to pump something, right? Otherwise, altcoins broadly are completely dead. So you have to have, I think that the energy that was created was probably had a little bit of reality last fall. I think they made some kind of technological breakthrough that is probably good for cryptography. And, you know, maybe some aspect of it gets adopted by Bitcoin in 10 years when it matters or something like that. And it created like a little bit of a pump. And then a bunch of the influencers on crypto Twitter, like you need something to be happy about.

46:26Right. And the last time that an asset was green every day, every week for a number of months when everything else in shit coin land was red was Luna. And even though people knew it was bullshit and actually they were, I looked it up when I, when I became aware and did the research in March of 22 and realized that it was actually a complete Ponzi. I went back through like some old crypto telegram chats that I was still in. And there were people in December of 21 actually referring to it as the Luna Ponzi. You know, I just wasn't paying attention. Yeah. You know, so I think that, you know, with something like the Z trash pump, you know, that's just people needing to have something to point to, to say, hey, the whole altcoin thing isn't dead.

47:14Look, there's this one. Now take these other bets. Here's the next Zcash. Here's the next Zcash. And it just gets the eyeballs because it moves. So it's kind of self-perpetuating, but it'll just like drain out over time as they always do. Yeah. You know, I look every time you've got a new show and people don't necessarily know that we've run these numbers before and we update it every once in a while. But when Sam Callahan was a research analyst at Swan, we went really deep on the entire history of altcoins and found that only two shitcoins in all of history have ever had a new all-time high in Bitcoin terms after their initial pump.

47:49And it was a ripple in 17. And Dogecoin. And Doge, yeah. So ripple in 17 was higher than it got in Bitcoin terms than its 13 pump. And Doge, because Elon shilled it, got higher in 21 than it did in its 17 pump. And every other shitcoin in all of history has never recovered its all-time high in Bitcoin terms from its very first pump. They're all pump and dumps, all 30 million of them. And of course, Doge and Ripple are down like 90 % since their second pump. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I love that. The interesting thing that I know you want to talk about this, and I think it's super interesting. The thing that's popped up in kind of the shitcoin sphere is prediction markets have become huge over the last few years.

48:34And I actually really like the idea of a prediction market. I don't think it needs a token. I don't think you need to be using crypto to use them. But the idea of a prediction market is really cool. Why do you think they've gained so much prevalence over the last few years? So prediction markets, there is something interesting and novel just about being able to create a prop bet basically is what it is in typical gambling terms. Like I propose that this will happen and we'll watch it. It's very popular in sports betting. It's like, you know, a prop bet would just be like, what's, is it going to be heads or tails on the coin flip at the Superbowl?

49:11Right. Or will, uh, you know, will, I don't know, will Sam Darnold, you know, fumble at least two times, you know, hopefully not. I'm a Seahawks fan. So will he fumble two or more times? That kind of thing is like a prop bet. And so you can create that for kind of anything. And if it has enough liquidity, then it starts to get featured and it starts to get interesting and it's very popular for elections. And so there've been different ways to, to whack at this over the years. The reason it's exploded in the USA over the last three years is because, uh, it's regulated differently. Oh, that's why it's, that's why it's exploded.

49:44So it lets people gamble at a younger age in more States. So that's why it's exploded for the most part. So there, there is a little bit of a tweak and a little, like a tiniest sliver of difference. Cause I would argue like, if you are someone who follows American football very closely, you have an edge similar to being a better poker player. Yeah, for sure. Yes, it's gambling, but you can have an edge. And there are lots of people that are actually like very, not many, there's probably like four or 5 % of the market or something consistently win at sports betting because they have better analytics and they're going against the market and the market makers set the odds based on the volumes on either side of the bet, not based on what will actually happen.

50:23So if you can identify the sports bets where the odds are not in line with your model and And you bet that intelligently over time. You can win like you do playing blackjack or like you do playing poker. You might win 52 % or 56 % or 62 % of the time or whatever it is. So that's been the explosion of prop betting. What's really fun in just being a Bitcoiner and having said all this time that Bitcoin is for investing, Bitcoin is for long-term savings and eventually, obviously money, and crypto is for gambling is it's like, like the mask has been taken off. They're all starting their own predictions markets inside of Coinbase in Kraken.

51:08They've started an industry organization that's crypto and predictions markets, and it's all merging. So, you know, you've noted for a long time as, as we all have that crypto advertising is in all the exact same places as sports gambling and casinos. It's all the exact same ad placements everywhere on every medium. It's like flip a coin and that would be FTX or Mohegan Sun or DraftKings, right? Same shit. And so it's kind of nice to just see them admit what they are, which is the entire incentive of a crypto exchange is to get someone to trade as many assets as often as possible in and out of positions and churn those positions and generate trading fees all the time.

51:54That's the goal. Their goal is not to make you and your family independently wealthy over the long haul. They're there to extract your money and put it in their pocket. It's the Matthew McConaughey. That's Brian Armstrong with hair, basically. Yeah. And it's so glaringly obvious as well. When you see a Swan or a River or any of these companies, the marketing is buy Bitcoin, either put it in self-custody or as good a custody solution that's right for you as possible. And when you look at a Coinbase ad, it's like, we've just added this new coin. We've added this new coin. There's just more and more to gamble on constantly.

52:33And so it's a real mask off moment. But the thing with prediction markets I love is that Bitcoin essentially operates like a prediction market. I think the idea of, you know, you said if the markets are going to crash on Monday, Bitcoin will crash on a Friday night. That is almost Bitcoin operating like a prediction market. Because I think the interesting thing with prediction markets is it's like incentivized whistleblowing. Because I saw when Maduro got taken out of Venezuela, the prediction market moved before any news ever broke. And so there's like, it's basically a place for insiders to go and blow the whistle on something early.

53:05And I feel like Bitcoin operates, Bitcoin's price at least operates like a prediction market anyway. Yeah. And I don't know. That's one of the coolest aspects of Bitcoin to me.

53:19So I've been kind of obsessed with macro generally since, God, I'm getting old, man. I'd say since probably 2000, 2001. Okay. So, you know, I was living in New York and you're around a bunch of bankers and hedges and all this stuff. And you're just kind of the financial center of the universe and start to get interested in that stuff. And I was already a history nut. And, you know, macro is kind of like the merging of being in the history and geopolitics with finance. Yep. And so it's interesting reading, even if you're not placing trades yourself. And I've never been like a macro trader except for my macro trade of my life, which is being long Bitcoin.

53:58and it is the ultimate macro asset in that respect. What is messy though is that because again, it's like 0.2 % of global store of value, it still gets traded a lot like a risk asset. And so it's not trading quite like a macro asset. It trades like a macro asset sometimes. And sometimes it's like you can divine that it should trade this way because of news in the world or whatever. But then a lot of times it's just, It's so small that based on flows, it may seem like it should be a flight to safety and Bitcoin should go up. But because it's in so many people's risk portfolios and they're dumping S &P and Qs and MAG7 and Bitcoin, it goes down instead of up.

54:42Yeah. And I think what's funny is like when sentiment is bullish on Bitcoin broadly, it gets held when people go risk off and it gets the boost when when there's something macro going. And when sentiment is bad, it just gets sold both times, which is where it feels like we've been for a few months. But I think I do feel like we're ready to sort of turn the tide on that. I'm feeling pretty good going into 26. Look, I feel good just being up in the first week of the year when every previous time in 14, 18, and 22, this is dump month and it's not happening. That's a win right there. I think - While sentiment is also completely shut.

55:23On the morning that we're recording right now, here's a nice little sentiment. We'll see what happens by the time this airs. but BitGo flipped their S1 public this morning. And so they were supposed to go out initially in the fall and it kind of got held. And then I think they were supposed to go out in November. They have Goldman Sachs as their lead underwriter. So it's like basically being treated as a blue chip IPO. And Goldman pulled it and held it even though their S1 was public. And basically said, let's wait till January. Well, here we are. We're reporting on, I have no idea what day this is.

56:00We're on the 12th. The 12th, January 12th. And they flip public. So hopefully they'll kick butt on their roadshow over the next 10 days or so and price and be on the NASDAQ by the end of next week. And that's with Bitcoin being sideways. So that tells you right now that that's never happened before, where Wall Street has been willing to take Bitcoin or Bitcoin adjacent companies public with Bitcoin price down. So they're not nervous about it. It's institutionalized. It's just a thing. People understand there's going to be cycles that revenue is sensitive to price, et cetera, et cetera. And they're comfortable taking them out anyway.

56:41That means like it's kind of like, you know, BlackRock wouldn't file the ETF unless it was going to get approved. Like Goldman doesn't flip the company public and start the roadshow unless the deal is going to get done. So fingers crossed. Good luck to those guys. Again, one of those companies that I think is dramatically net positive for Bitcoin, despite also having to do crypto things. I think Mike Belche is a really good Bitcoiner, and that's why people like Reardon Code and Lop and all these guys started their careers there and built all of that infrastructure and pioneered multi-sig at a place like BitGo.

57:13So I wish them well. I hope they kick butt. That's awesome. I mean, despite price, the last two years have been insanely bullish for Bitcoin. Everything has changed for Bitcoin. To close out, Corey, not price predictions. I never try and put people under pressure to do a price prediction. But have you got any predictions for 26? Anything you expect to see happen? Look, man, I'm really, really focused on the Swan business right now. It's an exciting time. I think it's never been clearer what a company like Swan is supposed to do and what our function is to be that partner for families and businesses that are going long Bitcoin for the long haul.

57:55and their needs are multiplying because it's a bearer asset and there are a lot of different ways that you want to own it and ways you want to think about inheritance, et cetera. So like, I'm really, really focused on that. And then I'd say, you know, I think that you will continue to see the education space bifurcate between attention getters and signal providers. And I like that. And I like that people are starting to rebel in a big way against the attention getters. And it's like not cool. to just be kind of an eyeball hunter and to try to provide signal. And I really, I like that some of the folks that have adhered to providing signal over the years are figuring out the ways that you actually monetize that, which doesn't have to be just through eyeballs.

58:43So we monetize through financial services and serving clients. And you and Peter have a bunch of different other businesses you know, alongside providing good, high quality content and information. And like, you don't have to be just like news cycle chasers and eyeball chasers. And I'm really glad to see that that is going by the wayside and is being kind of shunned. I love it. Bitcoin's growing up. Yeah, as it should. We're getting there. Thank you, Corey. This has been awesome. Tell everyone where to find out more about you, more about Swan, where they can go. Yeah. So we're just Swan on X. I'm Corey Swan on X and Swan.com.

59:24So all pretty easy. And yeah, we're here to serve. And we're in six countries now. Let's go. And hoping to expand quite a lot more. So check out and see if we serve you guys yet at Swan.com slash international. But yeah, most of the business USA and just looking to expand our product line and keep doing good things for Bitcoiners. Love it, man. Thank you, Corey. That was awesome. Thank you.