Why Everyone Is Wrong About Inflation | Ansel Lindner

20:24Danny Knowles:So I think it naturally, the end state of this is towards backing of the dollar with Bitcoin or gold, but Bitcoin would be the better answer in my opinion.

20:38Ansel Lindner:And what do you think would force a country to do that? Because like they will love having the superpower of being able to print money with nothing backing it. Like why do you think they would go back to a hard money backed currency?

20:52Danny Knowles:Credit collapse. Hmm. Because no one accepts their money anymore. Because to do business, you don't trust other people. You don't trust other countries. You don't trust other regions. And so you have to have some sort of asset that's flowing with the money to give it value. And so that's that's why they would do it. Because the old the credit based system is going to malfunction. It's not going to work as it once did. You know, it used to be where these developing countries could join the system, join the WTO, get access to foreign capital, foreign credit, build up their export industries, export to the world.

21:35Danny Knowles:Well, what if nobody's importing? What if they have to run a bunch of bilateral trade agreements instead of accessing the global market for things? You have to go to this country and this country and this country to negotiate your stuff. It's just a world where if you want your currency to work, you're going to have to do what the market wants. And if the market is demanding Bitcoin or a gold-backed currency of some sort, you're going to have to do that. You don't really have a choice.

22:05Ansel Lindner:I know as Bitcoiners, we like to jump on these things quite often too early. But do you think the stuff that's happening in the straightforward moves with Iran taking Bitcoin as payment is like a very early sign of that happening?

22:17Danny Knowles:Yes. Yep. I think it's just a sign of what we're going to. I mean, like I said earlier, we're seeing some other similar steps. Just the U.S. talking about a strategic reserve of Bitcoin is a sign that it's going this direction. Now we have the Iran thing. One thing that I predicted last week in my newsletter is that we're going to see China easing the ban. So they're going to ease their stance on Bitcoin as well because they see that they probably, this is total speculation on my part, but I think that they might view Bitcoin as another attack vector on the dollar. So if Iran can use it, it's an attack vector on the dollar to circumvent SWIFT and to circumvent these other payment processors and things.

23:04Danny Knowles:And so they might look at Bitcoin as being a way to attack the dollar at the same time. But in reality, what they're doing is, you know, the U.S. has 300 ,000 Bitcoins. It has a push towards a strategic reserve. It's kind of in a first mover type of position for governments, at least. And so I don't think it's going to hurt the United States. But that was my prediction is China is the next one maybe that we'll hear loosening their ban.

23:32Ansel Lindner:That would make sense. I mean, they've done that before. I could see them doing it again. Yeah. But the interesting thing there is, like, you say they may see it as an attack on the dollar. We've obviously had a lot of people in the US, the sailors, the politicians, the policymakers in the world saying that Bitcoin can actually help strengthen the dollar, which I've always found very hard to really believe. Which way do you see that going? Do you think it can help strengthen the dollar or is this just a straight up attack?

24:00Danny Knowles:I think it will be viewed as an attack by China, but I don't think it really is an attack. Being that the U.S. has the biggest government stockpile, I think any adoption of Bitcoin is actually just going to help the United States. One thing I've said for a long time is that Bitcoin aligns incentives, and I don't see how Bitcoin can be against the dollar. It's like saying gold is against the dollar. they're totally competing in opposite realms uh the dollar can simply just say okay now it's 10 satoshis per dollar and that's the exchange rate that's what we're backing the dollar as uh and that's it so i in that scenario how would the dollar be going against bitcoin or

24:48Ansel Lindner:bitcoin be an attack on the dollar i guess i maybe i'm wrong in this but i think my perspective on that would be it only helps the dollar if the US adopt Bitcoin to a degree. Like I can see it really helping the dollar if they start doing Bitbonds and they really integrate it into the system. But if they try and ignore it for too long, then I do think it's probably an attack on the dollar because it's just like a separate system that their fiat dollars can flow into.

25:15Danny Knowles:I don't think, to be honest with you, I don't think the people that are buying a bunch of treasuries are worried about if it's backed by Bitcoin or it has some Bitcoin tied to it in the structure. I really don't think they care about that. It actually might be more of a risk to many of them if that was the case. So, you know, demand begets supply. A lot of times people think, oh, I can build this shit coin and people are going to buy it and it's going to be so great and it solves all these problems. But really, the demand needs to be there first. So the demand for these bit bonds needs to pull that supply onto the market.

25:55Danny Knowles:It's not like they're going to offer bit bonds and all of a sudden there's a market there. You have to do the right order of operation.

26:03Ansel Lindner:If we do get this deflationary bust that you talk about, how do you think Bitcoin performs during that? Because in a hyperinflation event or a high inflation event, the sort of pathway for Bitcoin looks clear. Who knows what will actually happen, but you can see, you can project what you think may happen based on like COVID stimulus and things like that. What would happen in a deflationary bus situation?

26:26Danny Knowles:Well, a hyper deflationary scenario, like a financial crisis, where you have, remember during the great financial crisis and then during the September repo rumble in 2019. 2019, yeah. And I think also in COVID for a very brief period, the markets went bidless they had zero liquidity in the financial system and pretty much that means everything goes to zero uh credit goes to zero the supply of money actually goes to zero which is very interesting to think about um so what does that actually mean the supply of money goes to zero well because money is credit and if everyone defaults simultaneously there's no more money and liquidity to go around.

27:15Danny Knowles:It's all wiped out. So anyway, if that happens, I think that's very bad for Bitcoin because people are going to bid for food and water and they're going to run out there and try to save themselves. But in the long term, in the buildup of those financial crises, I think it's going to be positive for Bitcoin. So Bitcoin is not going to do well in those instant crashes, but it will do well in a deflationary environment. For the same reason why gold will do well in like a buildup to a recession. People start getting worried. They start, you know, squirreling away their money and safer assets. The same aspect is going to happen with Bitcoin.

27:57Danny Knowles:And so, yeah, that's so the buildup is good, but the actual financial crisis is bad for Bitcoin.

28:05Ansel Lindner:So deflation or inflation, Bitcoin wins.

28:09Danny Knowles:Yes, it actually is an inflation hedge and a deflation hedge. And gold bugs should tell you the same thing. And Bitcoiners should tell you the same thing. So in a system that's built on counterparty risk, if you have an asset that has no counterparty risk, then that asset's going to be bid in a period of deflation. or default, I would say. That's going to be bid. So that is the deflationary side. And then the inflationary side, obviously that's pretty self-explanatory. There's a fixed number of Bitcoin and the supply of money goes up. So the price of each Bitcoin is going to go up. So yeah, it's an inflation and a deflation hedge.

28:52Ansel Lindner:Well, let's go. One of the interesting things that happened over the last sort of 12 months or so is that commodities have caught a bid. Gold's been flying. Silver had an amazing run. And Bitcoin had an all right 2025 and then so far a bad 26. Have you been surprised with Bitcoin's price action?

29:10Danny Knowles:Absolutely, man. Absolutely. I thought 2025 was going to be much. I thought by this time last year that we would be, you know, going in the top of the blow off phase of the bull market, but that never occurred. It's been very tamped down. I mean, it's been how many years and we're still at 70 ,000. You know, when did we hit 69 the first time? Back in 2020? 21, I think. Yeah, 21. So five, six years later, we're still in the exact same spot. So I have definitely been surprised by it. How do I explain that? I think it is options markets. I also think that there There was a four-year cycle that a lot of OG Bitcoiners that had tens of thousands of coins, perhaps.

30:03Danny Knowles:Oh, that's the end of the four-year cycle. We didn't get our blow off top, so I'm going to sell now. And they sold at$100K. I said before we got to$100K, I was like, there's probably going to be significant resistance of people selling at that round number. You know, like they bought in for$10, and then they held. I'm just going to hold to$100K. and they held, then they sold. It didn't happen right away, but that whole kind of zone around$100 ,000 provided a lot of resistance to the Bitcoin price. And so I think we just have to eat through that supply and come out on the other end. It's just really hard to think, man, strategy is buying tens of thousands of Bitcoins every week and the price is not moving.

30:49Danny Knowles:What's going on? So I don't know. It'd be interesting to hear your take on that.

30:52Ansel Lindner:No, I'm the same. I was surprised and I sort of fell into the camp of thinking maybe this time will be different. And so far, at least it's not been. I still think there's the potential that it could be proven different. Like if we have a decent 2026 sort of end of 26, then I still think that like the four

31:09Danny Knowles:year cycle, you mean?

31:10Ansel Lindner:Yeah, I think I think it probably still breaks that four year cycle idea. And I don't really understand why the four year cycle would still exist. You know, the subsidy coming online is kind of irrelevant now. um like you say strategy's buying way more than the mining subsidy so i don't know exactly why the four-year cycle would stay i don't see any real reason for it so i i i would love to see that narrative get thrown out of bitcoin but i was definitely surprised i thought we were going to go higher last year and i didn't think we'd go as low this year um but bitcoin market humbles you i guess um do you think we're going to have a positive sort of second half of 2026 eggs.

31:49Danny Knowles:As soon as Bitcoin finds its legs, I think it's going to happen pretty fast. I don't think it's going to be like a slow buildup, you know, at the end of the year, we're at 100. And then six months later, we're at 125. I think it's going to go from 75 to 125 in a couple weeks when it does happen eventually. Now, when is that going to be? I don't know. It could be some major country like Iran or some major situation that everyone has to sit back and say, okay, they're accepting Bitcoin. This is real. Maybe the China thing. So we just talked about maybe China easing their ban on Bitcoin. Maybe that's a trigger to see a repricing in Bitcoin by 100 % up.

32:34Danny Knowles:So I don't know, but that's kind of what I expect to happen is fast and furious when it does come because the market wants to screw everybody possible out of every last dime that it can. And so it's not going to let fence sitters get the chance to jump into a trade. It's going to happen really fast. And everybody that's in gets to go. Everyone that's not in, they get a buy at the top and we repeat. So that's what I'm thinking.

33:01Ansel Lindner:Yeah, I think one of the other dynamics that was different this time is like since I've been in Bitcoin, we had the 2017 run, we had the 2021 run. And then and both those times it bitcoin was like the exciting fresh new thing that everyone was interested in there was fomo whereas this time that was ai like it was the ai trade that stole so much of the hype and even within bitcoin i think it was the treasury company hype rather than buying spot bitcoin um i think that has definitely played into it i don't know if that comes back maybe it does i think price action fixes that like if bitcoin starts absolutely ripping it will get the attention um but you mentioned the options markets there and it's something like i don't pretend to fully understand options markets but why would that have a negative impact on spot bitcoin price

33:46Danny Knowles:if you're in a different regime you can have options that either accentuate the volatility or depress the volatility depending on what regime you're in and we've just been in this regime where the options are set up to sell the rips and buy the dips. So that keeps you in a range until something changes that. And that's why you see the very fast dips, because it was being held, managed, and then all of a sudden something changed, maybe a big player blew up or something, and it went to a new level. And it has stayed in that new level in that regime in the options market. Now, it can happen in the other direction.

34:30Danny Knowles:And that's kind of what I'm talking about, is as soon as the regime changes to enhancing volatility, so you buy the rips and you sell the dips in the options the way you trade your options, then that means that it's a reinforcing loop higher. And also there's talk about, you know, a gamma squeeze or a Vanna gamma squeeze. I'm not an expert in the options market, but these things are reinforcing. So as price goes up, you know, these people have to reevaluate their risk. The market makers have to reevaluate their risk, and they have to go out and buy Bitcoin. So if they're taking the other side of a trade and they're shorting Bitcoin and someone else is longing Bitcoin, well, they do that based on a formula.

35:15Danny Knowles:How much Bitcoin do I have to have to hedge this short position that I'm taking to make a market? And as the price of Bitcoin goes up, well, they got to buy more Bitcoin to hedge that position that they have on. And so that is a reinforcing volatility loop and to the upside. Right. And so eventually that will happen in Bitcoin. When that happens is is unknown. But I tend to believe it's sooner rather than later. I don't think we can go on for another two years like this. I think it really does have to happen relatively soon. Maybe around the middle of the year, we will see how it goes.

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38:57Danny Knowles:well yes i do but i think it's going to be fewer and far between so if you look at gold right gold Gold has been, it's not that much older than Bitcoin in the sense of having like an ETF. I think the gold ETF was in 2006. Listeners can correct me if I'm wrong on that. It's 2006. And, you know, we couldn't even own gold until my lifetime. Like people could actually own gold again in the United States. So it's not that much older. And it is also heavily manipulated in the same way. Uh, but it has just done a parabolic move. You know, it did a parabolic move during the great financial crisis and then another parabolic move here now.

39:43Danny Knowles:So they can't, it can happen. It's just going to be fewer and far between. Um, but I think Bitcoin is going to have these like moonshots. One, one week, it's going to go 50 % up and then it's going to find a new level. And then maybe the next week it goes 25 % down and goes at that level. But it's going to break the options regime that it's in. It's going to reprice. And then it's going to be held there for a while.

40:11Ansel Lindner:So this is the idea of sort of extended cycles. You think it might not be the four-year cycle, but it's always going to play out in boom-bust cycles.

40:20Danny Knowles:Yes. That's how assets work, pretty much. That's how gold has worked. even though it was pegged to the dollar, say. And so$35 an ounce, that's how much gold was. But its purchasing power did fluctuate. And so, yeah, I think there will be booms and busts until it's pegged. And then maybe that will even suppress it even more because once you back a currency with a commodity, that commodity is held in everybody's account, right? And it's a very, very deep market. It takes a lot to move and bring volatility to a market where everybody owns some. And so it will suppress it more, but it will happen in that respect as well.

41:04Ansel Lindner:So a bit earlier in the conversation, you called Bitcoin currency and then kind of corrected yourself and called it money. And I'm curious what you were differentiating between that.

41:15Danny Knowles:Yeah, I think, well, first off, I think cryptocurrency was a really bad branding mistake. and I don't think Satoshi used it I can't remember now but if maybe he used it later on after somebody else used it but he didn't come up with it he didn't brand it maybe later like 2010 or something like that that he used the term cryptocurrency but a currency is a measure of money that's that's that's what I think of it as so you have a money gold or bitcoin and then And you have currency that is a denomination of that money. So one ounce, you have$35 per ounce of gold. So dollars is the currency, gold is the money.

41:59Danny Knowles:And same would be for Bitcoin. If you pegged it at 10 satoshis, you would have 10 satoshis per dollar. The dollar is the currency and the Bitcoin is the money. So that's how I would define it.

42:12Ansel Lindner:So you don't think Bitcoin can be both money and currency?

42:16Danny Knowles:Yes, it can be. A gold coin is both, you know, a gold coin with a face value is both money and a currency. It can be, but it probably won't be. The UTXO set kind of limits how many people can use Bitcoin. Even if we had huge blocks, you know, unlimited block space, you still would have UTXOs. And you really wouldn't want to have a UTXO set that had 100 billion entries because it would take almost, as long as a block to just find one UTXO out of the list of the UTXO set. It was always going to be a derivative. I mean, even Hal Finney talked about Bitcoin banks, right? And so it's always been known that most likely, if it really does become some sort of global money, then it will be a derivative that's traded.

43:13Ansel Lindner:You don't think this will be solved with like layer two solutions, layer three solutions, whereas you might, you know, you might be using Spark or ARK or Lightning or whatever, like, cause even with an open time, there's still a UTXO there. I know you can trade it physically, so you don't need to do any, there's no like on-chain footprint of swapping that UTXO, but you don't think this can just be solved technically at different layers.

43:34Danny Knowles:Well, I really like sidechains and I really haven't thought about this for a long time. I used to talk about sidechains being what's going to scale Bitcoin because you could, you know, each country could have its own side chain. And then you could have atomic swaps between side chains. And this would all be cryptographically proven and managed. And so side chains are a really good solution. That way, you don't have to mess with the on-chain UTXO set and all of this. You just have your side chain. And you can have your own rules as well. So one government might allow confidential transactions, and another government might not allow confidential And so each government can have their own side chain that is cryptographically pegged to the actual Bitcoin, and they can have as many transactions as they want.

44:26But overall, I think that the biggest, this, I saw you had Junsetth on.

44:32Danny Knowles:One thing that he would always say, at least in the past was, you know, there's benefits to fraud protection, there's benefits to being able to reverse a transaction. and if you have it on chain especially you can't do that but even if you had it on a side chain that would be much harder to to have those type of protections and so um i think there there is demand for a layer like on chain for major major transactions uh maybe even demand for a side chain type layer but then there's also a demand for just a regular old payment rail that's decentralized that somebody can reverse and manage and you trust the bank and you know that's that

45:18Ansel Lindner:so yeah i don't mind the idea of side chains either um obviously liquid really hasn't got any traction and people are trying to build out these bitvm things we'll see if they work um but it sounds like you're talking about bitcoin even you know decades into the future as having as big as fiat still being around do you think that is what's going to happen or when you talk about fiat is this like a tether type stable coin like what are you thinking the future looks like

45:44Danny Knowles:well i think the dollar i think uh currencies will be backed by bitcoin or we might go into a breton woods situation you know where the dollar is backed by bitcoin and then all these other countries are backed by the dollar but it really goes back to bitcoin um you know bitcoin or the dollar at the end was 40 backed so we had reserves to cover 40 of the supply of dollars it could be reinstated something maybe it's 10 for bitcoin um i don't know there's all sorts of different plans and how that or there's all sorts of different ways that you could plan it to institute it um but that's what i see if it's not backing of the dollar by bitcoin it's going to be what we have today i really don't see bitcoin just being floated out there as its own thing.

46:37Danny Knowles:You know, like gold has that opportunity right now, but it's not. Yeah, it's gone up to$5 ,000, but it hasn't really, it's not used in transactions with central banks or with anybody. I think maybe Iran and some sanctioned people might use it once or twice, but it hasn't really been a currency used or a money used. And it's had a long time to do that. So I don't think that Bitcoin, if it doesn't get backed or if it doesn't back a currency, I don't think there is an opportunity for Bitcoin to really be used globally. I hope that makes sense. It will always have a place in a portfolio and as a store of value, but it won't be used for that medium of exchange rule.

47:25Ansel Lindner:So in that like normal progression of money from store value to medium exchange to unit account, you think Bitcoin will never get to the sort of full stack?

47:37Danny Knowles:No, I think it will. But I think it gets there by backing Bitcoin or by backing the dollar and backing other currencies.

47:44Ansel Lindner:Not on its own. Right. Hmm. Interesting. I mean, that still seems like a massively positive outcome. I guess at that point, you probably don't have things like the Federal Reserve because there's not just six people in a room or 12 people in a room, whatever is deciding the price of money.

48:02Danny Knowles:Yeah, well, I think that the Federal Reserve will probably lose its independence. I mean, it'll go away naturally. I don't think I don't I don't foresee like losing the actual role of the Federal Reserve for a long period of time. But there will be losing of independence of the Federal Reserve. So one thing we've seen recently, you know, Besant and Powell and Trump, they all are kind of there's all there's all sorts of different stuff going on. So Trump is trying to fire Lisa Cook. If you remember that she's trying to fire one of the governors. She actually wasn't one of the bad ones. Like she was relatively dovish.

48:45Danny Knowles:She was one of the dovish board members, which is what Trump wants on the FOMC. But he wanted to make a statement. He wanted to say that you guys work for me and I can fire you at any time. Well, he tried to do that. Powell said, no, I'm not going to listen to you. And so now it's going to the Supreme Court and it's still at the Supreme Court and we'll see what they say. I think there's good arguments on both sides, but I tend to believe that if the government wants to subsume that back under itself, it eventually will. If it will be this president, the next president, somebody will bring that back into the fold and put the Federal Reserve as a subordinate of the Treasury Department.

49:33Danny Knowles:So I think that's going to happen maybe 10 years down the road, but that's going to happen for the Fed.

49:41Ansel Lindner:I mean, I can totally buy the Fed losing its independence. I think it's arguable how much independence it has already, but I think we're about a month away from Walsh coming in as governor, as chairman, sorry. And I think that's already a huge step in the direction of it losing its independence. Do you think he will be a positive appointee?

50:02Danny Knowles:Oh, man.

50:06I think he is, I think he's a yes man.

50:12Danny Knowles:He'll do what he's told. He'll do what he's told. Even though I think personally he probably disagrees with letting accommodated monetary policy at this time. I think he personally will disagree with that, but he will do what he's told and he'll try to run it hot. Now, whether he can or not, I mean, that's another question. Because I don't believe in like an omniscient Fed. I don't know if they can really do just anything they want. They can pretend to print money or they can print money, whatever. But that doesn't mean the economy is going to take off and there's going to be inflation. Just look at QE.

50:50Danny Knowles:I mean, QE, people that were watching the markets in 2009, we thought there was going to be instant hyperinflation. Or at least over the next two years, there's going to be like really high 100 % inflation rates. Never happened. It never happened. Didn't matter how much QE they did. Actually, when they were doing QE, yields dropped. You know, like this is not what we would expect to happen if inflation is picking up. And so what the Federal Reserve actually has power to manifest is up to debate, I think. So I think there is going to be somewhat of a boom in the U.S. relative to the rest of the world.

51:35Danny Knowles:But I don't think that's going to be a result of the Federal Reserve. I think that's just going to be the U.S. is booming.

51:43Ansel Lindner:Okay, I want to get into both of those things. So first of all, with the Fed, clearly Trump wants him to cut rates. I think that's most likely going to happen, whether it's this year or next, it's going to happen at some point relatively soon. um they've also been doing a small amount of qe over the last couple of months do you think that continues do you think it even potentially ramps up well i predicted the the qe that they're doing

52:08Danny Knowles:and i said like a couple months before they started it i said you know they're probably going to do something like a minimal qe and call it something like reserve management and sure enough, like a meeting or two later, they came out with the reserve management facility, I think is what they call it. So yeah, I think that's going to continue. As the amount of credit, as the absolute number in the banking system goes up, then if they say, oh, we need 20 % reserves in the banking system to maintain stability, but the system keeps growing, they have to increase the amount of reserves and so i think that's what they're doing that's that is what they're doing with qe at least that's the rationale what they're doing right now and i think they'll have that'll have to continue at least under this textbook of what they're using now does that mean they have to do that to maintain a good economy no they don't have to do that but they probably probably will is what you're saying there essentially even if they cut rates

53:12Ansel Lindner:and they continue QE, that's not on its own going to boost the U.S. economy. You think it's really because of the unshoring efforts that are happening right now?

53:20Danny Knowles:Yes. I think that they could have some confidence, you know, influences, but mechanically, it's not going to, that is not what mechanically makes the economy grow.

53:34Ansel Lindner:And why are you so confident that the unshoring, one, is going to work and two isn't going to be massively disrupted by sort of AI and automation and things like that?

53:44Danny Knowles:Well, one, I don't, I mean, those are several different questions there. Automation I'm not worried about because automation is a good thing. You know, for when new technology is adopted by a market, it actually makes the market more complex and it makes it more productive and and all those things. So I'm not worried about automation. I think it's good. If automation is adopted, it's actually a positive. It's like, definitionally, it has to be positive to get adopted.

54:17Ansel Lindner:Let's say AI is all it's hyped up to be. You could have a massive increase in the sort of K-shaped economy where there's still the people that have become like almost a permanent underclass from this, but then you have the economy could be ripping at the same time.

54:32Danny Knowles:Yeah. Well, I think there's going to be a K-shaped global economy for sure. Developing markets are going to go back to third world markets, most likely. And you're going to have a big divergence. And are those developing countries, are they going to be able to afford using AI? Maybe not, maybe. Right now we have this kind of, I think, unwarranted assumption that running AI is cheap. Oh, it's cheap. I just ask this prompt and I get all this, or I ask it to build me some software with these specifications and it's really, really cheap. But that's the subsidized price. That's the subsidized capex price.

55:17Danny Knowles:I don't think it's going to be globally like post-scarcity. It's not going to bring us anything like that. That's just a silly assumption that people make is that we're going post-scarcity. scarcity, universal, what did Musk say? Universally high income instead of basic income. No, that's just fantasy land that that's not going to happen in the foreseeable future. I mean, maybe hundreds of years down the road, but we can't, we can't see that. So in the near term, it has to pay for itself. And right now it's being subsidized by all this capex. We'll see what happens when that subsidy runs out.

55:55Ansel Lindner:So when do we get to the point where the working population isn't enough to sustain the retirement of everyone who has already gone into retirement? Like when do those payments stop? it's going to be different for different countries the the countries that are the worst off right now

56:11Danny Knowles:south korea china taiwan japan these are hitting it right now like i did a calculation about japan and they're not quite at one percent yet but they're getting really close to losing one percent of their population every year that's that's not sustainable for any sort of retirement or any sort of government assistance or pension plans. So if they haven't hit it yet, they can probably, you know, financially engineer it for a little while longer. But pretty soon, yeah, you have to have people there to actually work to not just pay, not just pay into the system, but to actually do the jobs of the economy to keep the economy running.

56:56Ansel Lindner:And but once those retirement accounts can't be paid, like the obvious thing is they're probably just going to print the money, right?

57:04Danny Knowles:It depends. Yeah, I mean, probably if they're on the same system that they're on right now, yeah, sure, they could print the money, but that wouldn't help them at all. It would be instantly into inflation, and people would be fleeing out of that system to buy hard assets of anything. Just like in any hyperinflation or high inflation environment, people instantly dump their cash and try to buy any sort of durable good that they can. If there is major capital controls in China and these other economies, then that's going to be more difficult. But no, that's not going to solve the situation. There's still going to be the same amount of pain.

57:47Danny Knowles:It's just whether it's pain with high inflation or pain with low inflation.

57:52Ansel Lindner:Ansel, this has been great. Is there anything that we've not talked about that you wish we had?

57:57Danny Knowles:Nope. De-globalization is my big thing. Demographics and then of course deflation. So I think we covered it all. I love it, man.

58:05Ansel Lindner:Tell everyone where they can go to find out more of your work, hear your podcast, all that kind of stuff.

58:10Danny Knowles:Bitcoinandmarkets.com is my original podcast and content. I just recently started Rogue Macro. So So you can check out roguemacro.substack.com for my writing. That's more 90 % macro and only 10 % Bitcoin. So you guys can check out Rogue Macro and Bitcoin and Markets.

58:29Ansel Lindner:Awesome. Thank you, man. We'll have to do this again. I really enjoyed this. Thank you, Anselm.

58:33Danny Knowles:Thanks, Danny.

58:47Thank you.