Why MSTR Will Underperform Bitcoin | Parker Lewis

33:58It's collateral. Like, so everyone's borrowing against this thing, but what is the thing? Why are they able to borrow? Well, because it's scarce, but it's zeros and ones. So everyone's just holding the zeros and ones, but borrowing against it for other money. How does this work? And so it might become more difficult to think about the asymmetry of it if you're not thinking about it in the context of money. And it's like when Michael Saylor came to understand Bitcoin, he read the Bitcoin standard. So it's like for one side of the shareholder base, they're saying, oh, Bitcoin's not volatile enough.

34:47You need more volatility. And then the other side is like, oh, but for the 99 % of you, it's too volatile for you just by my, you know, digital preferred equity. And, and so I think that like when you're stuck in that

35:05financialized mentality, that, that it might be difficult to see asymmetry because you're missing something fundamental about Bitcoin. And I do think, and not to everyone, because I know people who are, you know, really, you know, long time Bitcoiners that have started to allocate money to these Bitcoin treasury companies. So they clearly get Bitcoin. I think they might just be wanting to gamble. They like gambling or something. But a lot of other people came to Bitcoin by way of these. They caught enough signal to understand that there is financial upside to Bitcoin and it's something that they want to own with it never actually having rabbit hold it and do have a very limited surface level understanding.

35:48And those people are going to rabbit hole Bitcoin when the you know when the premium flips to a discount they realize that the narrative was wrong but they were so close to being on the signal and that will be an unlock so that's where i say you know everything's good for bitcoin you know the treasury companies don't have to fail for people to for their stock to go up and for people to have you know inevitably gotten less bitcoin as a result versus the very you know early minority of people that were in it before it started to get heavily diluted and traded at material premium um but you know it's like money is money the like there's fundamental truth that exists in the world and people will figure it out because you can only solve the problem of fiat money with another better form of money and that's Bitcoin.

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39:35I would expect that it's something like three to 5 % of people. As low as that? Yeah. But I also don't believe that, you know, I anchor people to 1 % because your question was, is there still asymmetry in Bitcoin? And if you come to understand the nature of Bitcoin as money and the importance of its fixed supply and that everybody needs Bitcoin and economic systems do converge on one form of money and it's not random that everyone in the US uses dollars, it's not random that everyone in Europe uses euros and yen in Japan and it's also not random that the gold standard existed, then you start to be, if you're at 1%, then you start to conceptualize that it's, you know, 1 to 100 asymmetric.

40:28But from a practical perspective, we're not, like there are not 1%, there are not 80 million people in the world that really grok Bitcoin. No. No. um and so if it's something smaller than that you know which it which it is it's like if if 80 million people in the world really understood bitcoin the bitcoin price wouldn't be where it is and uh because those 80 million people would be you know ceos of fortune 500 companies and they have access to more information, more ability to adopt. It's probably less than 5 million people. Yeah. I would guess if it was 5 million people, the Bitcoin conference wouldn't have to appeal to altcoins and have 15 ,000 people out.

41:34It's still early, very early. And so when I think about three to 5%, I think about it from the perspective of who are those people, you know, like, because if it's more people like Michael Saylor, more people like, you know, Ross Stevens, the founder of Stone Ridge, if it's, you know, people who run companies, their spheres of influence in terms of just the people immediately around them that um catch on their you know catch on to their signal that if it's one like one in 20 people if one in 20 people really grok's bitcoin that would be 400 million people right um if i'm doing my math right 8 billion 80 million times five right um that bitcoin becomes very easy to see in that world.

42:37Like in terms of like, you're still a little bit crazy if you're the person in your circle that has had enough vision to see how Bitcoin goes from where it is today to a fully functioning money system that's being used to facilitate transactions, you know, for day-to-day commerce. And once enough people have figured it out, then it will be like a rush to the exit. It will likely coincide with fiat. hyperinflation um where where people won't be sitting around saying you know what's the benefit of investing in a bitcoin treasury company or not and thinking in you know fiat kegers they're going to be flooding to the only form of money that's holding its value um and so um you know another way i would look at it though is similar to when a when a currency hyperinflates like the Argentine peso or the Turkish lira or Venezuelan Boulevard, it wasn't because 50 % of the people figured out that the money is not working.

43:50The smaller group of people figured it out, headed for the exits, and then the rest of the people figured out what was going on as a function of it. So that's what I viewed to be more likely. but it's also part of the reason why, you know, on the treasury companies, I do think there's something about the treasury companies that just confuses a lot of people about Bitcoin, not just about what they, you know, how they talk about Bitcoin and that that confuses them. But like the idea of like, but you buy, you, you know, someone lends money to you and you buy Bitcoin and, you know, what's the risk that you blow up, even if I don't think that they'll blow up.

44:27but I also think that they're adversarial and they're not all adversarial and maybe adversarial is a strong word but to talk about Bitcoin payments where it's not just like a meme like don't spend your Bitcoin like I understand those people but it's a difference to say like you know don't spend your Bitcoin to saying that Bitcoin payments is a misfortunate unfortunate part of you know the historical narrative and to be antagonistic to the use of Bitcoin as payments because that is a necessary part of the endgame. Like if you hear someone like Jack Dorsey talk about it where he says like, you know, Bitcoin needs to be everyday money to work, to be successful.

45:09Now that doesn't mean that everybody needs to be paying for things in Bitcoin today, but as an end state or an endgame, that needs to be the endgame because otherwise if Bitcoin was just locked up in a relatively few large institutions, it would be so centralized that it would not be resistant to censorship. If it's not resistant to censorship, then the whole exercise is moot. If it's not resistant to censorship, you've just recreated the fiat system. If you can censor Bitcoin, it's too centralized to not be resistant to it. You can alter one rule. You can functionally alter other rules like the fixed supply.

45:52and so but where I'm going is that my view of it is and again I'm working on Bitcoin payments but I'm also doing that for logical reasons it's part of the reason why you know I see this as problematic but the vast majority of people are going to start to understand Bitcoin as money as they see it being used as money and so if you are if your position as a company is antagonistic to that I view it as problematic to to the future adoption of Bitcoin to working. And because for some people, only a certain number of people in the world will be able to sit down, read a book, listen to a podcast, see this very esoteric thing and be like, ah, yep, this is where the world's going.

46:37I'm going to buy Bitcoin today with the idea that everyone else is going to come to a similar conclusion that this is the best form of money. But when you can go down the street in Austin, Texas, on a square terminal by beef for Bitcoin and eggs for Bitcoin and sourdough bread for Bitcoin, that for the person that doesn't have enough vision, and not in a critical way, but just in a very logical way, be like, hey, it's hard for somebody to understand Bitcoin as money when it's not using money. Well, when they see it capable of being used as money, that is an unlock. It it closes the mental loop it's like okay i'm not using bitcoin as money but you can and i'm now going to evaluate this in the context of all this other um intellectual kind of thought process or logic about why somebody created bitcoin to be this form of money that has this fixed supply and that it was expressly created because of all the trust that you had to put in banks and that that trusts have been broken, central banks creating money, quantitative easing, banks creating credit bubbles, everything.

47:45But if you don't have that being used, or if you're actively working to constrain that, that that that is is something that is in opposition to a wave of people that would start to turn on to it turning on. You know, now Square do Bitcoin payments, what percentage of your payments that you're making things you're buying is in Bitcoin? Because for me, basically, the only time I ever actually use Bitcoin as money is around Bitcoin events and Bitcoin conferences, because otherwise I just don't really have an opportunity to. I mean, it's still low, right? But in terms of percent, it's greater in number of payments, smaller in absolute value, I'd say.

48:27But like my local grocer accepts Bitcoin. The woman who cuts my hair, she was already on Square. So she now accepts Bitcoin. It was her first Bitcoin. um you know so i've you know again when you think about it again it's a microcosm but a woman who had never bought bitcoin i've been i've been going to the same woman for eight years okay since i moved back to austin great great lady um super based and And the first Bitcoin that she ever got was after Square turned on Bitcoin payments and I paid her in Bitcoin. That's cool. That she had every opportunity. I've been talking to her about Bitcoin for eight years.

49:20Right. But it was Square turning the ability to accept Bitcoin on. And she was like, yeah, sure. Like that, for whatever reason, super easy for her. You know. That's the unlock. Going to an exchange wasn't, you know? And so I do think it's a critical part. And one of the other things that occurred in my, you know, flippening on the Bitcoin treasury companies was like, you know, it was the, we turned Bitcoin into money. Digital credit is the most important inflection in the history of Bitcoin. Credit on Bitcoin is, you know, bigger than lightning, you know, like, or multi-sig. You know, like that is like implicitly the comment.

50:10But then, you know, Saylor also made a comment about how what was happening with the preferred stock of Strive was the most interesting thing happening in Bitcoin at the time. It's like, it was happening at a time where Square was rolling out Bitcoin payments to 4 million merchants. yeah crazy what are we talking about um and so i don't think like sailor's bad you know it's like i wish that like 2020 sailor would come back yeah you know that's exactly where i'm at he's in there he's in there like there was a podcast i don't know if you were a part of it but there was a podcast that he did with um with eric casen and john ballast yeah and hodl and hot it was a hodl but like when you when you listen to it it's like man this guy gets like the fundamental importance of bitcoin and i'm like where's that guy he's in 100 he's in there i want to see him come back too yeah um i think he might be gone though um i think you know when you talk you do i hope so um you know when you talk about this like any state of bitcoin this bitcoin is hope um we hope he comes back yeah you know when you talk about like this end state of bitcoin this type of Bitcoinized world, however you want to call it.

51:32Do you think that Bitcoin is the global reserve currency? It's used in every single payment by every single person? Because there's this like growing idea that Bitcoin won't step into that role and instead will be the global reserve asset and will still have some like USDT stable coin type payment rails. No, Bitcoin will be the reserve currency. I think like there's two things that I think confuse people they they refer to an a reserve asset versus a reserve currency and when they're doing that they're kind of like they're realistically um maybe conflating is the wrong term but they look at the treasury as a as a treasury bill as a reserve asset and the the dollar as a reserve of currency, but the dollar's money and a treasury is a claim on future dollars at some future point in time.

52:27And if the dollar held its value rather than degraded in value, then why would they need to buy the treasury? Right? So it's like, hey, they know the dollar is losing value. The treasury is functionally speaking guaranteed by the U S government. So I'll, I'll own the treasury because it's going to give me some nominal yield, which is better than just holding the dollar. But, but a large function of it is, is created by the decline in the dollar. And so it's like money is both an asset in a currency. Not all assets are money, but money is an asset. You know, it's like, It's not semantics. It's like the thing that makes money money is unique to it, and the other assets don't have the properties that could allow it to be that thing.

53:22And so I do think that there's going to be an inclination to try to force Bitcoin into a box that says, oh, you have to use this fiat stablecoin, and there's going to be Bitcoin NDS institutions. That's part of what I see being problematic. Now, the economic gravity of Bitcoin will dictate that it will break through those barriers as well. But that doesn't mean that everybody, you know, first people through the door aren't caught up in the crossfire. But the reason why, so one, it's just like a currency is an asset. Now, Bitcoin is unique in the history of money because it is a form of money that is both functional as money and as a currency.

54:15And, you know, for the longest time, I didn't really appreciate the distinction of when people were differentiated between money as currency. If you ask somebody about the dollar, they'd be like, is the dollar money or currency? They would probably look at you sideways like, what are you talking about? Because they sound like the same thing. Right, because they think of them the same thing. It's like money's currency, currency's money. Well, if gold was money, gold needed to be refined into a currency to have the utility in trade. You had to set a standard. You need to turn into coins. You had to turn it into coins into a standard unit.

54:51The idea of one ounce needed to be standardized. Gold, the element on its own is just an element. putting it into a standard unit putting the stamp of a crown you know having a currency issuer that is turning into the coin ensuring that there isn't counterfeit out there was a functional part of the the role of the currency issuer relative to the money that there actually was a distinction and in the entire history of commodity metals that has that has functionally been the case and like a But a gold bar that doesn't have the mark of a crown on it to this day is considered different. It's not considered to be currency.

55:36That's why they call it bullion. Now, Bitcoin is unique because not only does it have this fixed supply and it has these monetary properties, but the Bitcoin network does, and I'm not distinguishing between Bitcoin, the asset, and Bitcoin, the network. I put those two things as one. The network is not valuable without the currency. The currency is dependent on having these nodes to be able to transmit money in the system to have final settlement. But Bitcoin in its totality issues the money, verifies all transactions, and has a standard unit baked in. You don't need someone to create one ounce of gold.

56:21You have one Satoshi. and so for the first time a form of money can be a currency as well bitcoin because the bitcoin network is capable of doing all of the things that a currency issuer was previously necessary for to refine money into something that was a utility in trade um so it doesn't need the issuer That's like the fundamental aspect of Bitcoin. Then when it comes to, well, yeah, there are going to be people who want to put Bitcoin sitting in a stablecoin wrapper and say that you have to use this. Or they might even just think it's a good idea, that it's a good way to scale, that there will be that inclination.

57:07Tether's already started to buy Bitcoin. They'll probably allocate more to Bitcoin over time. but to a holder the economic incentives dictate even if you are going to use a custodian this isn't about purity it's about pragmatism that if you were going to use a custodian or not that if you were going to use the custodian and somebody was like hey you're going to deposit your bitcoin to my bank or my bank-like entity, and I'm going to give you a note back that's denominated in some other money, not Bitcoin. You'd be like, well, why do you need to do that? Why don't you just denominate it in Bitcoin?

57:54Denominate your liability to me, your obligation to me, or more likely the incentives will dictate, hey, this is not a deposit. This is a bailment arrangement. Like you can't, you legally, you can't take my money and give it to somebody else. But in either of those two scenarios, the, the bailment arrangement or the, or the deposit arrangement, the economic incentive would dictate, like, just make it denominated in the, the currency that I'm giving you, not some other currency for which you're the issuer of that has a different denomination. right and if and if one bank wants to do that another bank is going to follow the economic incentive and say well i'll let's all you know whether it's a different bank or a different jurisdiction they would say like i'll let you you know i'll denominate my liability to you in bitcoin rather than some currency i just made up and said that you know my currency is convertible to you it 10 to 1, or 20 to 1, which was like dollars to gold, at least around 1920 or 1930.

59:04So you basically would have to make up some new currency supply or even if you were issuing it 1 to 1, imagine a tether to dollar if you were to do that with Bitcoin. If it wasn't actually in Bitcoin but was in BTC tether, it's not Bitcoin. Your liability to me would be the currency. And the gravitational force of the economic incentive would just be like, well, it's all the same to you. Just denominate your liability in Bitcoin. And if you won't, I'll go find someone that does. And so for that reason, Bitcoin will just be the reserve currency. There's no – the network's capable of doing all the functions of a currency issuer.

59:52It's technically not needed. All it's introducing would be introducing greater economic friction, and that also aligns with the incentive of the individual on the other side. And so people will try to do dumb things. Don't get me wrong. um but at the end of the day all of the incentives are like squarely real behind you know you central bank hold bitcoin or you you government of country xyz hold bitcoin you individual in america just hold bitcoin or hold it with a bank that denominates in bitcoin um and so i've got like one bit of keynesian brain rot that i can't get rid of which is what credit looks like in a fully bitcoinized world um because like i understand the sort of positives of it are that if if um if i'm if we live in bitcoin i'm denominating like any any credit i give is denominated in bitcoin like that gets rid of so much malinvestment but does it also slow investment to the point where it's much harder to build new things no um not not in my view i think that deflation if you think about it as a concept, because, and I'm not suggesting you're a Keynesian, but a lot of Keynesian struggle with this, is that if there is realized deflation, that is evidence of the fact that people are willing to sell their goods and service for less and less money.

1:01:21That they wouldn't do that if they didn't have an incentive to do that, right? And that there is nothing that precludes a fixed supply currency that is neutral with the creation of credit. All it eliminates, or the viability of credit for that matter, all it eliminates is the ability to bail out banks if banks lend money and can't return it to the depositors or then the shareholders after the depositors. And so the way that I think about it is, and to compare with the fiat system, because it is really difficult in the fiat brain world, because the fiat world exists so far detached from any semblance of reality that if the Fed system has six to seven trillion of base money in it right now.

1:02:22There are like$105 trillion of dollar-denominated debt that exists. Excluding, we're not talking about unfunded pension liabilities or derivatives, just government debt, state, local, federal, credit card debt, auto loans, student loans, mortgages, vanilla debt, things that are not preferred equity, things that have a fixed maturity and a fixed liability. Well, how in the world could the credit system be like the amount of debt be 105, but all the money that exists is only six or seven. That functionally means that the same dollar has been lent out 16, 17 times. Um, that it, because that is the system that exists today where credit, the credit system is actually larger than the amount of money that exists, which only exists because the Fed introduced dollars and prevented like the, the entire credit system from restructuring and shrinking for 50 years.

1:03:41Like it was turbocharged at the time of the financial crisis and the credit creation has accelerated as a function of all the dollars that they put into the system in the great financial crisis and then again in 2020. But they were doing the same thing functionally in the 80s, 90s, early 2000s before the financial crisis. The only way that that could get to that extreme of there being 15 times to 17 times the amount of debt than the money in a world where you can create money and bail bad debt out. So the way that I see the Bitcoin world working is there's 21 million Bitcoin. All Bitcoin are always being saved by everybody.

1:04:25And some of those people are going to be 70 years old, 80 years old, 90 years old. Some of them are going to be 20 years old coming into the economy and they don't have any money and they're working. Well, in that world where everyone's on a Bitcoin standard, the opportunity for Bitcoin to increase by a factor of 10 when everybody's like in this world, Bitcoin's the pricing mechanism. You're not just paying for things in Bitcoin. The ribeye is priced in Bitcoin or sats. The gas at the gas station is priced in sats. You're not thinking about a fiat price of Bitcoin. Well, in that world, Bitcoin's going to be, in a year, it might lose a percentage or two if there's some contraction in the economy.

1:05:07But more likely, it's going to be increasing in purchasing power as productivity increases, as people are willing to sell the same good for less money because they're able to produce it more efficiently at less cost. That's like saying back when I was a child or a young adult when a beer was$1, say, rather than$8 today or whatever it is. It's like a beer going from like, you know, a dollar to 99 cents the next year. Well, in that world where money is appreciating and say that, you know, if there's 21 million Bitcoin, the amount of Bitcoin that's lent out is likely going to be a fraction of the 21 million.

1:06:00So let's say that 10 % of the Bitcoin are lent out, but not like lent out to do some trading scheme. it's like hey i'm gonna lend you this money and you go build a building start a business a business whatever well if 10 of bitcoin are lent out say 2.1 million and i know there are lost coins but let's just use the example well the 21 million minus 2.1 the um you know 18.9 million that's the market of growth of who you're serving with that business. And so, yeah, Bitcoin would be appreciating by productivity gains, and some businesses would fail and not be able to repay loans, similar to how it existed on a gold standard, right?

1:06:49Not all loans were repaid, but economic activity flourished. So now, would there be a world where you had 21 million Bitcoin and the amount of debt in the system was 200 million Bitcoin? No, because the businesses that have those loans would fail and there couldn't be any bailouts. But it's not hard to imagine if you're thinking in that Bitcoin-denominated world and seeing the credit system as going back to its utility of productive capital formation, like actual capital, building a plant, building a manufacturing facility, building telecom infrastructure, or building satellites, whatever people are building, that if the amount of debt that exists is a fraction of the total supply, that your growth of that money base that's lent is all the other Bitcoin.

1:07:50because you're doing it, you know, you're speculating in some business to drive growth. And the rate of interest would likely be, you know, the way it used to work was that, you know, if the economy was growing at 8%, say if productivity gains were 8%, then like the most secure loan would be, you know, something underneath the rate of growth of the economic system. and that it all would be in harmony in that world. So I don't know if that helps from a context to see how, you know. No, it definitely helps. This is an impossible question to answer and I always ask it to you, but when do you think we do go from the gradually to the suddenly and end up in this world you're talking about?

1:08:34Do you think it'll be in our lifetime? Yeah, I hope it. I mean, like, I hope, you know, we could get hit by a bus tomorrow. hopefully that doesn't happen but we if we live to the average lifespan of you know people in our countries it will be in our lifetime i don't know exactly you know there might be a lot of pain that happens along the way as fiat hyperinflates i don't view it as we're just gonna seamlessly transition from a world of excess and a bunch of zombie companies and a bunch of bad debts to a Bitcoin standard without economic volatility and dislocations. But yeah, I mean, I continue to believe that this is like a, you know, if we had this conversation two years ago, I would have said 10 years.

1:09:28If I'm, you know, keeping myself honest, I'll now say eight years because I would have said 10 years. Nothing's changed about that. Um, and, you know, I added up to the amount of money that they're going to have to print the, um, the unsustainability of inflation as, as it exists today. Um, artificially manipulating interest rates higher doesn't make it cheaper to get oil out of the ground or to produce food. and so what people have found in the keynesian view of economics the raising of interest rates should have brought inflation down and it might be bringing the price of houses down but it doesn't make the production of any good cheaper and the lion's share of people in the economic systems in the developed world are struggling to get by as it is and so i don't know how with all the money that they're going to have to print to sustain the credit system the fundamentals of bitcoin being as strong as they've ever been um in terms of like the amount of development that's happening at the wallet level the multi-sig custody level the um the payments level the the mining side that, you know, now on the mining side, there is a big secular shift happening where a bunch of large miners that are unprofitable are pivoting to AI.

1:11:02But there's continuing to be innovation to drive the price of a hash down, which will, you know, ultimately drive the price of Bitcoin-denominated energy down. All of that, the fundamentals, it is, we might, I don't know if this was on, you know, we might have been talking about this off-screen before we came on, But it's like the sentiment has never been worse for my 10 years around Bitcoin. The fundamentals of Bitcoin have never been better. And those two things are true at the same time. And I think that there's also, in my view, there also never was an adoption wave since 2021. And the next one will be particularly large because of that.

1:11:44but that if Bitcoin increases, if adoption increases by 10 times, then Bitcoin is, you know, 10 trillion to the, or 12 trillion to the broadest definition of dollars is like 25 trillion-ish today. If Bitcoin demand in the next eight years increases by 20 times, and I think about that in terms of like, If the number of people that actually understand Bitcoin is 0.1%, if that grows to 2 % in the next year, what's more likely? That we get to 2 % in the next eight years or not? And that they're going to have to print trillions upon trillions of dollars? That Bitcoin becomes in that time period with two more halving events of the Bitcoin network continuing to enforce its fixed supply, knowledge distributing at an accelerating pace.

1:12:39that bitcoin becomes as large or the um clear second in terms of size of the currency system and not not and i don't mean by like a a little uh spike up i mean like at an equilibrium where i can hold a price like it's holding this price of you know 64k for a long period of time that um that wouldn't be when when it's clear that bitcoin is either the largest currency system in the world or the second largest. That's where I think you see the wheels come off the fiat bus, truly. And people instinctually move into Bitcoin without having to have an intellectual conversation. But moving to Bitcoin to use Bitcoin because it's the only form of money that's working, much like people pick up the telephone without thinking about it.

1:13:30I'm here for it, man. I hope we do see it in our lifetime. I'd be very disappointed if not. I hope this isn't like the quantum thing where it's always 10 years away. No, I mean, well, you know, quantum needs to achieve things that are theoretically possible and Bitcoin only has to do the exact same thing. I mean, realistically, more infrastructure needs to be built out. But from a fundamental of the validation of the base money and the enforcement of the fixed supply, it doesn't have to do anything different. Yeah. To close out, Parker, you should tell everyone who's listening who wants to start taking Bitcoin as payments how they can find out about ZapRite.

1:14:15I use it every single month and it's fucking awesome. I was just going to ask for a testimonial. No, it makes my life so easy. I invoice everyone through ZapRite. I still don't do the discount in Bitcoin, but I need to do that. But everyone has the option to pay in Bitcoin. What about for cheat code? Well, that actually worked really well because we had such a janky ticket set up the years before, before we used ZapRite. Where people would have to like pay with Bitcoin. We'd have to like verify the transaction and go in and issue them a ticket. Using Zapprite was super straightforward. Awesome.

1:14:47And when we use it next year for cheat code, I mean, we did a discount for Bitcoin this time. And I think we're going to do something a little bit more interesting this year. If we do cheat code, we've not quite announced it yet. Okay. Well, I hope it happens. I hope I can make it this year. Honestly, from my view in the States, it looks like a phenomenal event. But yeah, for anybody, whether it's a podcast, for people hosting Bitcoin events, we have a full ticket suite. I appreciate you plugging that. We love supporting you on that. But at ZapRite, we're bringing Bitcoin fiat into one platform.

1:15:23It's Bitcoin native. We meet everybody where they are. We support non-custodial solutions on both on-chain as well as Lightning, but we also have custodial solutions. and we're really just helping anybody. We really focus on people who already understand Bitcoin. And so I just encourage people that if they are running a business and they grok Bitcoin, they understand why Bitcoin stores value, that whether it's with ZapRite or somebody else, it's like if people come through ZapRite and they're better off with Square, given the nature of Square Suite and their type of business, we send them straight to Square.

1:15:58But my message to people is that if you understand Bitcoin and you're a key person in the operations of a business or if you own a business, I would very much encourage you to evaluate your options in Bitcoin payments. We'd love to support you at ZapRite. If you go into zaprite.com, which is Z-A-P-R-I-T-E.com and submit a contact form, I'd be the person that helps figure out if we're the right solution or help create a solution for you with us. We'd love to support you. We've got an API for custom built websites. Our ticket solution is great. that Danny uses, invoices are a really popular tool.

1:16:34So yeah, just chopping wood. And in my view, it's get back to basics. Stay humble in Stacks. I think Bitcoin's better than buying stock in a treasury company. And not everybody has to accept Bitcoin as payment today. Not everyone has to pay for their Bitcoin. If people only have 1 % of their savings in Bitcoin, you got too much fiat, you need to keep rabbit holing Bitcoin. but that is also the light at the end of the tunnel. It's the end game. And so I encourage people that are further down their journey to put in the effort to make that investment and it will pay off for people. The best thing about ZapRoy is we had a little quirk when we were trying to launch the tickets and I emailed you and the fix was done overnight.

1:17:18So that's pretty good as well. That's the power of, you know, working with a Bitcoin company and we treat everybody with that same, you know, it's like if there is an issue, like we solve it but it's also the beauty of ai that's like everyone talks about ai and about how you know ai sucked the you know air out of the bitcoin balloon it's like well they solve two different problems bitcoin's money and you know ai needs money too but it also accelerates the development of bitcoin applications and our team on the engineering side nate our cto and all of our engineers have really leaned into that side so we're able to uh to really um lock in and deliver high value features in a fast efficient way so our our customers like you danny are the best you know sources of feedback of what they need um because if they if someone needs them like you then then 10 other customers do or 100 other customers do so um we appreciate getting that feedback yeah it's awesome if you run a business check out zap right um thank you parker appreciate your time um we've got to do it again i'm going to come to austin soon we're not the one person in a long time yeah you you come to austin i'll get over to wherever you are whether it's at cheat code or you know further away across yeah cheat code next year i think we're going to do it but there'll probably be an announcement very soon well good luck to england tomorrow i think we're going to do it man did you see spain just beat uh france um i actually didn't i saw i watched the first half um so spain beat france i think the only way we were ever going to win this World Cup is if Spain beat France.

1:18:52I don't think we could have beaten France, but I think we got a shot. Was it 1-0 or did they each end up getting... 2-0. Oh, well. Okay. Yeah. So just Argentines get through, but I think we're going to do it. All right. Fingers crossed. This might age like milk, but thank you, Parker. Keep my fingers crossed for you. See you, man. All right. See you.

1:19:22Thank you.