Matt Richardson: Why Most Comedians Never Make It

0:00Comedians start to lose their edge when they stop enjoying it. You gig five nights a week and you treat the days like work.

0:08Ben Hanlin: Welcome back to What's the Trick? I am your host Ben Hanlin and this is the podcast where I sit down with the world's most creative people and try and understand their creative process. From actors to musicians to authors to writers, you name it. And today we're talking comedy because I'm joined by comedian and presenter Matt Richardson. So Matt is a friend of mine and I've known him since 2013 because he started off presenting The Extra Factor on ITV2, which was massive. It was a huge live show. It was one of his first gigs in telly. And then from there, he went to go on to loads of presenting.

0:45Ben Hanlin: And on the side of that, obviously, he's been a comedian. So the reason I wanted to talk to Matt is other than being a really nice guy and being really honest, He will literally tell you anything about comedy and the world of comedy that we don't always see. I really want to dig behind the scenes. But he's massive into clubbing comedy. So the night, the day I saw him, the night before he was in Norwich, the day after he's in Devon, he travels hundreds of miles a week. He does. He would gig every night of the week going in and out of comedy clubs. So he's really match fit. So I want to talk about his comedy process, how he writes, how he thinks about the clubs, etc.

1:22Ben Hanlin: And then also recently, since end of last year, he's jumped on TikTok and started doing Q &As. You may have seen them where he basically says to people, ask me anything. And he does loads of these every single day and he's blown up. He's getting eight to 10 million views a month on TikTok. And I'm going to get behind his thought process on that. And is it changing his comedy career? Is it helping him sell more tickets, etc? So we dive into all of that. We have a great chat. We filmed this one in Bloxham near Banbury. It was near his hometown in Oxfordshire and mine near Birmingham. So it's a good midpoint.

1:55Ben Hanlin: And I should say, if you've got any young ears listening, there's probably some naughty words in this one because Matt's comedy can be a bit rude at times. So listen out for that and maybe just put some headphones in. But enjoy this one. It was a really fun chat with Matt Richardson on What's the Trick? Can we talk about extra factor? We can indeed. Yes. That's when we first met. It was when we first met. Right. And I think taking a moment, looking back, I was thinking about this today. He's like, now TV's moved on. We don't get these big juggernauts of shows the way we used to. And that was huge.

2:28Ben Hanlin: It was arenas in the final. And then you were hosting the extra factor. So first thing, and I know you've talked about a lot of stuff before, but let's talk about what I've not heard you talk about. Simon Cowell. Did you have many interactions with him? No, because I was on his fallow year for Simon. So it was Gary Barlow my year. So my interactions to Simon, I've met him twice ever. So I met him at the launch of the show. He was there and he forgot my name when he was talking to the press. And then when he sort of went, thank you very much to Dermot, Caroline and the other one. Brilliant. Yeah, that's classic.

3:02That's for me. But then he did pick me apparently. So I didn't know this until after it happened. But so I went in for a meeting. I got a random call from my agent and went, look. And I mean, I was living at home. I was like, I was doing stand up full time, but I was just doing the clubs. And they went, you know, you've been asked in for this meeting. And I went in thinking they wanted a comedian on the show like they had on I'm a Celeb.

3:23Ben Hanlin: Right. Because at the time it was Russell Kane. It was Russell Kane was doing it. Or maybe Rob Beckett had taken over by that point. And I was going, oh, they're looking for a comic. Yeah. So I then go into this meeting and they go, oh, we're looking for an Olly Merz replacement. And I don't know. At the time, I didn't know how they found me. It turns out someone from Psycho had seen me on like a talking head show of some sort. Yeah. And Kate Madigan, who was in charge of ITV2, had seen me at Edinburgh. So I went in then and then I did this meeting and then went in for another meeting and then did a screen test with Caroline Flack.

3:51And in that screen test, she had told me, because I'd never done any presenting, so she went, look, just stand, just put your shoulder just in front of mine because it makes me look smaller. And I like that. I want you to just a bit in front of me. And then as we went, I sort of like migrated backwards. And then I said to her, I was like, oh, sorry, you want me to stand a bit further forward so you look less fat, like that. And they left that in the audition tape. Right. And the producer said, that's the most, and Simon watched them all. And Simon went, there we go, that's what I want.

4:19Ben Hanlin: Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. So me sort of like accidentally kind of like, I wasn't trying to insult her, but like that was the thing, that's funny. That bad. And then the thing is with it, I was thinking about this as well. So you were young at the time. 22. 22. And live telly. And I think a lot of people listen to this, might not be a performer, but the thought of standing on a stage in general scares the hell out of most people. How did you deal with the pressure that when you're in a studio there's hundreds of people running around and then it's like three, two, one, Matt, go. Well, so the first live show was crazy and obviously you do loads of rehearsals and things and by the live shows we'd been doing the show since the May.

4:57So it'd been a few months of pre-recorded stuff where you're doing loads. So by that point I was used to and I knew everyone on the show. But it doesn't bother me. I like live telly because it's like gigging and especially on our show it wasn't in front of a massive live audience it was only just at the beginning and then you're in a little studio so I was just like oh you're just doing it in here and I like the idea that things can go wrong that if you mess up you don't have to redo things and I think like a lot of live telly that I liked and I thought was good was stuff where that kind of like slightly and with the spin-off shows that was the thing of slightly ramshackle chaotic energy was sort of part

5:34Ben Hanlin: of the fun yeah so you could just muck about yeah pretty much and like and that sort of power of going you do it you know pitch something in the a joke or something and they go no and you go well i'm just gonna do it anyway it's a live show it doesn't matter yeah what are you gonna do yeah you can't stop me right well let's get into comedy yeah i want to start with tell us where you're at when your next tour is in relation to us recording and then we'll talk about where comedy where your comedy is with that yes so i um finished a tour at the end of 2025 and we're now at the beginning of may 26 so i I finished that and then I'm back.

6:06I've been back in the club since the tour ended in November. And then I'm going to do another one. 2027 autumn.

6:14Ben Hanlin: OK, so you've got a show autumn 2027. Have you started writing for that show now? Yes, but I'm not at the stage where I with stand up. Some people will do this, but I don't look at it and go, I need a show. That was going to be my question. when you look at this thing in your diary does it start with a title, an idea, a format, a thing or are you like I'm just going to get material together? That's basically at the moment it's just like I'm at the beginning of the process of going oh that's a funny bit and I'm just doing new material gigs to kind of go on stage with a notepad and go I've got this idea for a bit about pressure washers or whatever it is and you just keep trying it and then you get to laugh in a certain place and you go okay I've tried that bit again another bit didn't really work and it's just the thing with comedy is i i know people who can sit and like write a routine and kind of work it out then i go up and i'm like i've got five ideas in this routine and i'm just going to go and do it well hold on let's get into it so let's talk about you can be specific about either a bit you've already put out or that there's a more of a complete process or something you're working on where does the idea start is that every day walking around or where do you get the the best juice where you're like oh my gosh so all it is is i mean notes in your phone so i will go around and say you go something amusing happens or you have a thought so for example i mean let's have a look shall we oh yes i love this i love this what's but yeah what's been one you've done recently i'll do one really recently well let's see if it's good or not because the thing is you write them down and be like that's a great idea and you look at it a couple of days later you go what was i thinking yeah yeah that's the problem so here's one um that i've written down all this said is uh i wish i had brain damage so that's the beginning of the idea where did that come from so i have a friend who many years ago fell off his bike and wasn't wearing a helmet okay and he's got very mild brain damage but he's the happiest person i know right so like and you look at him like everything that's going on in the world at the moment yeah he doesn't care right like he just he loves his he works in a supermarket he laps it he loves it goes home watches telly and you go oh you know Iran or whatever it is and he's like I don't know yeah and he just doesn't have the capacity for it and I go god what a life yeah so I was sort of with him and I was like oh that's really funny to go being jealous of someone of something that's awful that's happened but you're going god but you but he now is happier than anyone I know okay great so I so that's like literally I've not tried this or tried to outright it that was just a that's a funny idea so that starts as an observation of oh that's he's got an intro oh an intro so he's got an interest in life and interest perspective on life i'll write that down what's happened next with that so that is that was two days ago and that's just gone i've gone that i'm like that is so that what now what now that is is you go okay i think it's funny that this horrendous thing has happened to him yet it feels like he's got a better deal than people who don't have mild brain damage yeah so that's just an idea where you go okay that's funny so then the next stage would be to try that like go to a little new material gig and just talk like talk about that idea for me so that isn't that hasn't got any jokes in it yet but i think it's a funny premise so you won't sit before that comedy night and noodle it out or write out a script you'll literally just walk on stage with just that in your head and just yeah like word vomit so the next stage for me now is like what i'll do is every few weeks and it will as i get towards the tour it'll be more and more and then next year about this time i'll start doing loads of hour-long preview shows but at the moment it's like going and doing 10 minutes and every couple of weeks when i'm doing one i'll go through my notes and write it all down i've got a notebook and i'll go through it and write them all down and then just think of is there anything i could add to that quickly but a lot of my stuff there are loads of comedians will sit and type stuff out but my stuff will grow organically like i'm very much like i want to go on stage and talk about it and what will quite often happen is you'll talk about it and they'll just stare at you yeah because it's not funny it's just an observation yeah but but you just keep knocking away at it because i've got bits as well where so i've written them for the last tour and i just couldn't and i'm trying to get them in this one because i know it's a funny idea but i've never nailed how to do it so you're twisting your hands like a rubik's cube so because the idea is there but maybe the way you've got into it maybe the opening line the explanation and the exposition is quite a big thing so even in my last show like i had a guy who helped me a director and he there was bits and i'm like this isn't working he went you don't explain it properly at the start because it's a funny bit but you haven't taken them to where you're thinking so there's a lot of that in comedy so that was gonna be my next question directors writers where does that fit into this so i don't use writers um i am very lucky that i've got two very good friends who live near me comedians andrew bird and matt bragg and we meet up and write together so what will happen is we will go for a coffee every week or two and we'll go with all these bits and go i've had an idea for this bit and they'll go oh that's funny because you could say that and we sort of all throw each other's ideas around right yeah so they're both going on tour before me so when we meet up at the moment you're helping them i'm not putting so much forward but but then it all comes back around and it's quite nice because it's nice for two reasons one they both have different brains and they will see a different funny thing yeah that you could do but the other reason is it's just nice for them to go no that is funny because especially at this stage stuff doesn't feel very funny yet yeah you might have bits that have got a really nice line and like not everything starts like this like i will have bits where i go oh i've thought of four bits that make it a mini routine and then there are some bits that hit so interesting i interviewed a great guy called owen cuts he's a music producer and he said he was playing samples to stormzy yeah and he said storms is like a homie missile he said i was playing in these like list of samples he said i pressed this one button and within 10 seconds storms he went what's that yeah and he homed in on it and he went if he says that it's on the album like he's Are there bits that you do or that you wait for responses that if you get that, you're like, I know that is 100 % gold or it doesn't work like that?

12:00Yes, it doesn't. It's really, if you could know that in comedy, you would be a multimillionaire because everyone would hire you. There are so many bits you write that you go, oh, that's really funny. And it will never, like this may never go anywhere. Even though I've gone, oh, that's a funny idea. And there are other bits. So often at a new material night, you'll be going through your phone and you'll see a note and you go, I don't think that's very funny. But you'll try it anyway. And that's the one that's the standout from the night. and you go, okay, I wasn't expecting that one to be the thing that really clicked.

12:26Ben Hanlin: Right. So, and it's that. And then I always find as well with my routines, because I've got bits that are little and then in comedy you have like, it's the same with you. You've got little tricks and big tricks, right? Yes, yeah, yeah. And the little tricks are easier, whereas the big trick, so I had a routine, like I've got a routine I'm working on at the moment about new build houses. Right. Because I live in a new build and people are horrible about new builds. And when you tell people that you live in a new build, they are really rude about it. They would imagine they would say things like the build quality.

12:56The build quality. But even things like you say and they go, oh, I could never live in a new build. And I think you don't have that in anything else. They're like, oh, no, I have to have a house with character and all that. You go, well, but if a person's got character, they are a cunt, aren't they? And it's just that kind of thing of, but just the absurdity around, like when we bought this house, we'd never seen it. Like when we went to look at the house, she's like, let's go and have a look. and she showed us a piece of mud and went, so this is where it'll be. And then she showed us round this piece of mud as if it was the floor plan.

13:26Oh, right. So just going, so this is the kitchen and we just stood in a field.

13:29Ben Hanlin: Yeah, we could be anywhere. Yeah. And all this and just like, even where I live, you know, they're building some more, like when they were building ours, there was loads of protests about it. Like when we got there, like there were old ladies protesting them building. Right. And you're going into this. And I think that's really funny. So I've got this joke about it where you're like, you know, it's like going into, you know, we feel like we're going into an abortion clinic in the deep south. I mean, it's quite a heavy joke, but then we've moved in and been like, people are disgusting about this.

13:54They have to build new houses. They're building some more. We don't like it. So it's sort of all of these kind of like little bits about it that I go, these are all funny ideas. And I've been trying to get them into a routine and I keep trying it. And like every time I try it, another piece slightly falls into place.

14:08Ben Hanlin: And with that idea of something there, isn't there, of you've done something that people didn't like, but you've justified it. But when somebody else does the same, that is the idea. Exactly. And that's the thing. And you just, I'm not great. I've never been like, so when I'm writing a show, once I've got the pieces, I'm very good at sitting down with it and going, how does this all fit together? How can I make it feel like more than just an hour of standup comedy? So that's what I was going to ask you, structure. Yeah. So something I always think is really difficult with comedy is giving people the same emotion consistently for an hour.

14:42Ben Hanlin: Yeah, you can't. If you went on a roller coaster for an hour, after 10 minutes, you're like, this is the best thing ever, but I'm done. And it's that thing of how do you, so with magic, you create tents, you do, there's lots of gear changes. So when you think of a show for an hour, do you have like a set structure that is in your head that we don't know about? No. So for me, that's some people, I guess it would be early. But for me, that is the last thing that comes. So I will get to a point maybe I'd like to think this time next year where I have an hour of stuff and it's like working. all the routines work individually yeah and then there are two schools of thought in comedy where you can write a show about a thing so it's a subject and it's all about one thing and there's like a narrative through it yeah yeah and i remember like when people talk about tours like there are routines i was doing in my tour that i wouldn't do in a 20 minute set because there's a lot longer to set it up and things but when you've got an hour and 10 and an hour and 15 you've got that time where you go okay i've hit them hard for 20 minutes let's do something that just takes your foot off the gas a little bit it's like when you go to a museum after half an hour i can't take any more information yeah like you're walking around a museum and you're like you know to begin with you're reading everything and by the time you just look in a room you go yep cool lovely it's in it and i think you need to give a moment where it's a little bit easier and it's just um a story that like i had this one bit in my last show about um a couple of footballers that live in my village and um they went on a big bender when their football club got promoted and one of them pooed in someone's garden when they were out as like a prank, I guess.

16:12Ben Hanlin: I mean, this is going to be the clip for the show. Yeah, yeah. It's fine. It's been clipped up from the show and it's already online. And it's, so they pooed in someone's garden, but the person had a ring doorbell. So on the local Facebook group, Now I Live in a Village, it was the talk of the group, like, because the video went up. Oh my God. But the thing is, like, the video is amazing because he does it facing away from the camera because he doesn't want them to see him, but he's still in his football top, so his name and his number are on his shirt. So like that moment, but that story had quite a lot of set up in it and it came after another bit about sort of village stuff.

16:43And I said to the guy, so I'll talk about my Steve Hall who directed my show. I was going to him, because the director doesn't write jokes for you, but they're very good at going, that doesn't make sense. Like, you know, there's bits in your show where he'll go, that bit's not working

16:57Ben Hanlin: because you're contradicting yourself from something you said earlier. Like little things like that. They're good at giving a perspective from the audience that you can't see. Yeah, exactly. because you're too close to it, right? And there was this bit where I was going, I'm going to drop this routine because there's just not enough. Because I was looking at it like doing a club routine. So I was like, there's just not enough jokes in it leading up to the big punchline. He went, you can have that. He goes, you've got an hour and 15. You've got however long you want. You're allowed to do that. In a club, if you have two minutes without a laugh, they lose faith in you.

17:24Whereas they bought a ticket to see you and you've been making them laugh for half an hour solid. So you can take two minutes to explain something. Yes, yeah, yeah. Which you wouldn't do in a club set. So there's bits that you kind of stress about that actually in a tour show work beautifully because you are you the audience have given you a lot more trust.

17:43Ben Hanlin: Yeah. And they've chosen to be there. And also they're just enjoying because there's a thing about like, is it relevant? Is it interesting? Is it entertaining? Is it funny? Right. You don't have to be funny all the time. If it's interesting in a tour show, OK, I quite like this guy. I'll hear him tell this story. Yeah, yeah. What happened here. Exactly. And, you know, you know, there's. but in a comedy club, if you go a minute without a laugh, you start to go, I should probably do something soon. Whereas in that show, and especially where you place it, so my show was very out the gates, straight away lots of stuff, very quick bits with loads of jokes in it.

18:20And then I could hit a bit where it was a little bit more chilled out. Well, let's talk about some stuff you've already put out there in the past.

18:27Ben Hanlin: I get it absolutely, what's your favourite trick, right? So what's your favourite bit? If you were to look at some of the bits you've done that you're like, if I could make a best of show, what would be one of your favourite things you're most proud of? I've written, there are two routines I think are like my best routines. Right, let's go into that. So I've got one, there's a story in my show about my best friend who's a GP. We were on a plane together and someone, there was a medical emergency and he went, I can help, I'm a GP. And another bloke went, what are you going to do? Referring. Did that actually happen?

18:58I don't even have a friend who's a GP. like it's just it's something that happened where it was something I was on a plane where there was a medical problem and I was like oh wouldn't and then it was that weird I don't know where it came from but just being like I think I was with a mate and I went a GP would be useless what are they going to do refer him and then you go I hate a story where you're like and I said to him and I said this I've taken something that was like a silly little joke and you transform it into a story and then it was and then sort of I was like okay so right if it's a random GP and then I've got a friend whose mum is a GP so and she was mine for a bit.

19:30So I was like, well, I was talking about, that's quite weird when you're a teenager and going to her for like, you know, I went with my girlfriend for the pill and like, so I could turn it into more of that. And then it's observations about, you know, he's always wanted to be a GP and like, I wrote some other stuff, but it started as an idea that I was like, said to a mate, I was like, and then I was like, I'm going to make this into something that I was at and an event,

19:51Ben Hanlin: which is quite common as well. It seems like a lot of your process in the early days is, it sounds weird to say, but he's trying to almost make yourself laugh. Pretty much, yeah. It almost feels like you're going around all the time and going, ha, well, that's actually quite funny. But it's that, that something will happen or someone will say something or I'll make a silly comment to someone and I'll be like, oh, that's quite funny. What can I turn that into? So a lot of it can be, yeah, it's like this amusing thing and then spinning it into something. Yeah. I think it's interesting because a lot of people are up, like I've spoken about this online where you go, oh, do comedians lie?

20:21And you're like, totally.

20:23Ben Hanlin: Yeah. Like everyone lies. Like I know, you know, nothing that funny happens all the time to one person but it's like seeing it I think an audience, most audience members accept that you're just suspending your disbelief for that show there's a comedian in America Hassan Minaj who got in trouble because he lied about a story in his show but it wasn't a funny one, it was a serious one about his daughter being unwell and it's that thing of the line of going if you're making something up to make me laugh I don't mind but if you're making something up to make me feel something else then I feel cheated yes exactly that Yeah, we have that in magic.

20:58Ben Hanlin: You think of a mind reader, he's depending on what he's trying to do. He's trying to convince you that he's using all of these skills to influence you and put thoughts into your brain. The way the colour of the wallpaper is. And then there's some people that go, well, hold on. If it's fake, is that okay? There's all of that of where... And also, I come back to this thing of honesty. So as a magician, the worst thing you can do as a magician, I think, is go, I'm going to make this ball disappear. And the audience go, no, you're not. That's BS. And they disengage because they know you're lying to them.

21:31Yeah.

21:31Ben Hanlin: It's like the moment they think you're being lied to, you disengage, right? Yeah, it's really interesting. And I think it's obviously, look, we get lied to for dramas. Yeah. You know, I think there's a lot of dramas where, you know, like I'm reading a book, like a thrill at the moment. It's pretty like, you know, it's about this really grisly story. And I'm like, it's not like you, Matt. No, but I'm just, but like, but that doesn't bother me that I'm reading what is a fictional book about something dark, like, you know, whatever it is. And I'm going, okay, they're lying to me. And I'm feeling things for these characters and like, you know, and all that.

22:02But then it comes from a comedian. You're like, you've manipulated me. Whereas to get a laugh is almost like people go, oh, you, it's fine. You've made me happy. So I would, I will make stuff up for shows. I have stories that I did years ago. I don't remember what really happened.

22:17Ben Hanlin: Right, yeah, yeah. Because I've made my own version and talked about it for so long. Yeah. whereas I don't know if I would pull heartstrings. And there are comedians who do do the emotional thing. Yeah. And I know comedians who've done the emotional thing, and it's not fair to name them because they're not here to defend themselves. And it was all fabricated, like very serious, heart-wrenching stories. Yeah, it's just fiction. What are your thoughts? Because once you know how to control an audience, as a lot of good performers do, and especially comedians, what are your thoughts on people who put shows together and at the end go, hmm, I'm missing a bit of pathos here, I'm missing a bit of empathy, and then right at the end go, by the way, that guy was my dad and he's dead now.

22:53Ben Hanlin: And then it's, and they go, great, you're all crying. And in my head, I'm like, I didn't come here to cry. I came here to have fun. It's not for me. Right. I accept. And the thing is, what I am trying to do is write the funniest show I can. And I want them to laugh. I'm going laughs per pound, basically. That's how I look at it. It's a very Jimmy Carr approach, isn't it? Yeah, pretty much. And even though I don't do one-liners, I'm very much like, this has just got to be funny. That's what matters first. Whereas there's lots of comics now who funny feels like, especially at the Fringe, right, in Edinburgh, where funny is secondary to an interesting story or an interesting show.

23:29And that is a valid way of working and people like it, but it's not my thing.

23:34Ben Hanlin: Who would you look at now and it still inspires you? Which other comedians do you look at and still get motivated by? So this is a really weird one that I bet you're not going to expect. Joe Pasquale. Go on. So I gig with Joe Pasquale for the first time the other week. Yeah. What a lovely man, number one. But number two, the thing that I found so inspiring about him was his love of it. Still. He loves it. And I think, for me, comedians start to lose their edge when they stop enjoying it. Yeah. So I know loads of circuit guys who are technically very good comedians and they were like killers on the circuit and they're now fine because their heart's not in it anymore.

24:15Right. And I think that's where it loses. Whereas Joe, all he wanted to talk about was like, he loves it so much. And I left having gig with someone that you think, oh, you know, he's not like a comedy, he's not a cool comedy guy to gig with. But yet, you know, in my circuit, because he's from the older circuit. But I left feeling more excited about comedy just because he loves it so much. And he's still working on bits. Yeah. And I love that. Like, and I gig with Russell Kane the other week. I love Russell Kane. He's absolutely incredible. And once again, he loves it. And it's just, it's just amazing.

24:44like there's loads of comics on the circuit who haven't you know i'm a slow writer i find writing the hardest part of the whole process um and they've been doing the same routines for years and it doesn't matter because they perform it like it's the first time and it feels fresh

24:58Ben Hanlin: that for me is the biggest challenge i think that people perform amateur performers don't get and and again i keep using magicians as an example but it happens also i see people on stages in in all sorts but my world as a magician the moment someone comes out on stage and i feel like they're telling me something they've said a thousand times it feels like script it just kills it dead yeah and i think like you know in a when i'm doing the clubs um there's my set is a real mix of like stuff that's less than a year old there's a couple of bits i do that are like much older but i'm always tinkering with them still so it's an old car but you you've added new parts so it's exciting so if the challenge is you and i think andy niman the actor wrote this in one of his books but he said as actors who perform in the West End every night their challenge their biggest challenge is to make it sound like it's the first time they've ever said it yeah is it so do you have any tricks or tips on how you keep it fresh for you um so for me I find that making an audience laugh never feels old so I have jokes that like you know that that tampon routine I do and I I've been doing it since 2017 in some version I don't do it all the time anymore but I know that they're gonna laugh I know that it's going to get a good laugh and I'm excited to get to that bit.

26:10So I revel in the pause of the build-up and doing the act out and whatever because I know where I'm going. And actually, loads of comics are thrilled by I'm going to find the laugh in this new bit and I find that the scariest. When I know what's at the end of the tunnel, I am so excited to get there that that's how it feels fresh to me.

26:30Ben Hanlin: Yeah, so for me, I've got some old material and stuff and I do that. I guess the thing that I try and do is I use audience participation quite a bit. So by me talking to a different audience member every night, it's going to naturally, the rhythm's going to change. Is there anything in, because I always find that hard with comedy when I watch comedians, is that usually there's, unless you're Matt Rife, or every other comedian trying to harvest clips on social, but in general, you're not normally interacting with the audience much, or is that a technique you try to do or not? I do, so in my tour shows I do, but I don't do low, I'll do like 10 minutes of it, like I won't do tons, and not in one, I won't just come out and be like, hey like it will sort of naturally come and i'll try and at a tour show you'll try and chat to people and sort of they become a character in the show yeah so you sort of then you know you're doing another bit you go back to them to ask them a question yeah so you know i talked a lot about you know in my last one about this school report where a teacher told me that i was overconfident and brash that's why the show was called brash when i was seven and and there were bits in it with a sort of link back to it and i'd go you know what were you like and you can ask them questions and they will become a part of it and it sort of relates to them.

27:34But it's funny because I was chatting to another comic recently. I was doing a gig with Sarah Pascoe, very good comic. Yes. And we're talking about tour dates and she went, oh, you know, I did 40 tour dates and I went, oh, would you not do more? And she goes, no, I'm bored of it by then. Oh, really? She goes, do you not get bored? I'm like, I would do the show 400 times. It just does not bother me. I just, the reaction is what I live for. So I think there's two groups of comedians and this is a theory I've had for a while. there are people who see themselves as artists and people who see themselves in a service industry I work in a service industry I am there to make you laugh and that is my goal so when that works I don't feel bored So Seinfeld's view with comedy was more in your view right

28:13Ben Hanlin: so he thought it was bonkers that British comedians essentially write a new show every year whereas in America it's very much no you hone the same show for 15 years, 20 years and you just keep getting it better and Seinfeld's still got his hour that he's been doing for 15 years. He changes 10%, doesn't he? Each story is like, you come to see me, not the show. Whereas here, we've got the Fringe. So the Edinburgh Fringe means that people write shows every year. And I'm going to say 85 % of comedians cannot write an hour every year, yet they do. So how should they play it then? They go back two years in a row?

28:46No, I think they shouldn't be going every year. But we're now in an industry where that feels like the thing to do. But I've seen so many shows where everyone goes, oh, it's great. And I go, it wasn't that funny.

28:55Ben Hanlin: yeah it would be a lot easier for everyone if they said the rule is to do it two years in a row it should be like the olympics or like or you should come back and go it got five stars last year come back go and see it yeah yeah and it'll be even better yeah because i find the routines don't get worse the more you do them yeah they only get better because you find the rhythms better you find little jokes you um you know you just get more comfortable like my thing with uh doing material is so i've got this another bit in my show about and it's one of my favorite bits in the show about these we've got a gang in the village i live in these like 14 year old boys and they like dress like road men yeah but we live in a village in oxfordshire and um and i remember the first time i did it well first few times i've done it a couple of times and then i did it at a gig with a friend and i went oh that bit didn't really work because you can just tell it's new when you're doing it you're not as confident and comfortable in it whereas once i'd done it 20 30 times then i started to really get comfortable and then i found 10 more jokes in it yeah yeah so that for me is i don't want to be doing fresh stuff every year i want stuff that It feels like I've been doing it.

29:55Ben Hanlin: Yeah. So it's funny, isn't it? Because I get very jealous of comedians because I think that they can come up with a gag today and say it tonight. Yeah. But it seems like you're one of the comedians that almost has trouble with that, but it's more like you want to hold on to your really good stuff. I get really attached to routines and I always worry I'll never write anything that good again. That's a big thing for me. But I also won't turn stuff over. And there's a thing where you'll gig with people, especially people on the Edinburgh run, and they'll be doing a gig where they're getting paid and loads of it is new because they're trying to get ready for a new Edinburgh show.

30:25I won't do that at a gig where they're paying me. I won't do it at paid gigs until I go, this is as good as my other jokes. So then I'm not trying stuff. So I'm doing little gigs for no money or like barely any money and doing it there. I won't have it. My job is for the audience. It's not for myself. And it feels like that is for myself. Or like when they're like, well, I'm trying it for a tour show. And I go, that's fine if it's like builder's work in progress. I've got no issue. But when a friend of mine books a gig at Warwick Castle and a very famous act was booked to headline it for a lot of money and came on with a notebook.

30:59And you're like, that is not what this is for. And they got booed off.

31:02Ben Hanlin: Did they? Yeah. But you go, okay, that is fine. Go and do a gig to 50 people doing that. No issue. But like, I won't do that when they've paid money for tickets. I am there to make that audience laugh, not a theoretical audience in the future. Well, that's the expertise. It's a lot of bands that if they're getting ready for a big gig or whatever, they go and do warm-up gigs on the way up to that gig. Yeah, yeah. So, and that's it. Like I've booked in loads of little warmup gigs, work in progress gigs at comedy festivals this year where it's billed as that and it's dirt cheap or free or whatever.

31:31And then I'll do that and I'll start to slip the things in my 20 or if I'm doing a 30 or a 40 minute set, I'll slip them in once they feel strong enough. But also what's the percentage of,

31:42Ben Hanlin: if I was walking out to Warwick Castle, I've got an opportunity to convert those people to my fans. Totally. So it's like a thousand people. If I get this right, that's a thousand people that are going to come to my next tour if I get this wrong that's a thousand people I've lost I sold a lot of tickets last year on my tour to people where I was the least known person on a very famous bill and they discovered me so like hosting a gig to a thousand people where there's Alan Davies headlining I did one in Northampton and I sold out my Milton Keynes tour date off the back of it and so I'm going out there to impress them I'm not worried about well I need to do shit gigs to these people who've paid like I'll do them and there's loads of places you can do that like there are places where people enjoy that process.

32:21Ben Hanlin: So here's a question, and I think you've been doing this long enough that we can pat ourselves on the back here, right? Yeah. You make a career out of comedy, and that's pretty much your only... Yeah, that's all I do. You're a full-time comedian, and if you've ever been to Edinburgh or research comedy, that just by definition, you're in easily the top 1 % of comedians. Of people who ever start doing stand-up, yeah. Yeah, even right now in comedy. So this is really... I've never really asked you this question. You can be as honest as you want. Either why have you been able to create a career out of this when other people can't?

32:54Ben Hanlin: They're still doing their nine-to-five. Or why in general do you think, what makes the difference between that top 1 % of performers and the 99 % that have still got day jobs? Graft. So when I was new, I started out with loads of great new acts who were very good. Very quickly, I was never one. So I don't think you have the same in magic as much. There's competitions for stand-up when you're new. So you go and do this. So you think you're funny. the laughing horse one they used to be the amuse moose the short student i got to the finals of all of them but i was never winning okay so i was good enough to be in the final but i wasn't seen as like well you're gonna be fine yeah so i knew i had to work and when i started i was i was very privileged when i started because i was 18 and i went full-time at 20 but i lived at home so i didn't have any responsibilities i wasn't really paying much rent but when i started my dad i dropped out of uni to do it and he saw me at a gig and i went i think i can do this as a job and he He went, you'd gig five nights a week and you treat the days like work.

33:50He goes, I'll get you up because he worked from home a lot. He went, I'll get you up in the mornings and you were either writing or you're emailing and you're trying to do the admin to get more gigs. And very quickly, I sort of went past people who were meant to be better because I just put the hours in.

34:04Ben Hanlin: Yeah. And then so when you're looking at people, though, let's assume people have the graph. Is there still other elements, do you think? Yeah, totally. I think, I don't know if it's the same in magic, but people develop at different rates in comedy. So when I was new, Rob Beckett was new at the same time as me. And Rob was Rob Beckett straight away. Right. Like, you know, he was like, it was like he was born ready for it. Right. Whereas I look back at my gigs and it took me longer. And sometimes it takes people years, you know, like to develop who they are and sort of find something that really clicks for them.

34:39And also you've matured as a person. Totally. and I'm a very different comedian now than I was 15 years ago. But a perfect example of this is Scott Bennett, who's been on your pod. Scott is the hardest working man in comedy. Scott's been going about the same time, maybe a touch longer than me. And Scott was always absolutely fine. Like you gig with Scott, you wouldn't have a bad gig, but you weren't sat there going, Scott Bennett's going to be the next big thing. And then a few years ago, and then he started to gig shed loads and he was doing gigs and he was writing loads and he was just throwing it all at the wall and seeing what happened.

35:10and eventually maybe just before the pandemic or just after it all clicked and something had happened all the work had meant to get to a point where you know it's like that death but it's like success by a thousand cuts he just kept going and kept going and then all of a sudden you'd gig with scott and you'd be like where has this come from right because you don't see each other that often as comedians like all of a sudden and we all talk so you'd hear from people like have you seen scott bennett recently and you're like yeah he's fine and they go no no no he's amazing now and like Like it's that thing where all of a sudden it feels like, it's like I was always, I always thought I was quite good and I went pro quite quickly and whatever.

35:47But it's only after COVID when I went back in the clubs doing 300 shows a year, like all of a sudden people are going, I've heard you've like stepped it up a level. And like, it's that, but it's just because I was gigging so much and like working hard. And I think, I mean, work, it's not hard work, but I did a lot of it, you know? And I think that's the thing.

36:03Ben Hanlin: But like you say, it's doing the gig is the easy bit. It's getting the gigs, making sure your diary's full, getting there doing all that stuff totally and it's stuff now that there's a lot of acts especially with like so when I started you did the clubs like you wanted to be a club comedian that's all I wanted whereas now it's almost like people don't want to do the clubs anymore they're like I want a tour and you go yeah but and there are loads of acts who get big online very quickly and do a tour and only do one because they haven't done the hours to be good enough even though they've got an audience from their clips or whatever it may be and then you go and then I did a gig recently with a guy and he was going oh god he's been going a few years and he was sort of doing the middle for maybe a hundred quid and he's like oh god I'm just so bored of the clubs I'm like I mean you're barely in them mate and then he went I just want to be a touring actor but you still go back in the clubs like you don't just tour like Ramesh is currently doing club gigs three nights a week to work stuff up for his next tour show yeah like it never ends and you're always on that grind like Alan Carr is doing little gigs now because he's touring next year you know you're always back in those rooms yeah in a good way it's like you can't bypass that they're just putting in that effort And you can tell when an act, even big acts, I've watched loads of specials where you go, when a big act has had a very busy time in their career, like when it really blows up, the show after that is normally their weakest because it's the thing they haven't spent as much time as normal.

37:20So there's big acts there, and then the next show is amazing again because they've had a little bit more time once that blow up happened.

37:27Ben Hanlin: Hello, it's Ben. We're going to take a very short commercial break. And for regular listeners, you'll know when I say commercial break, it's not really a commercial break because I've got no sponsors. so it's me just talking to you for about a minute so we'll just do this now uh first of all this is matt uh lovely guy and just he's always been one of those people that when i've met him over the years i've just enjoyed his company really nice person so go and support him he's matt richardson on socials or matt richardson three i think on instagram he's got a tour coming out next year but he's always in clubs and he's promoting which clubs he's going to up and down the country so even speaking to him and his passion for comedy clubs has made me want to get out and go and watch a bit more live comedy so maybe you can go and support him there and um or dm him and just let him know that you've listened to this and you liked his vibe uh what have i been up to so we had an easter break didn't we and um it was longer than easter i granted uh why was that a few reasons first of all i took a break i went to florida with the family and went to disney uh which was amazing it was a really great holiday and we're very fortunate we were able to do that but also i got a bit invested in Walt Disney and Disney World as a concept to the point where I've tracked down some Disney based people for future guests so I think we might be doing a Disney episode in the near future and the creativity of that I could talk a lot about that so which you'll probably hear also if you're liking this episode of Matt go and check out Scott Bennett's episode from a few months ago actually another comedian he was brilliant so I think you should have a listen to him as well.

38:58Ben Hanlin: What else have I been up to? Other than Disney, last week or so, so for those that don't know, I also do a lot of corporate events where I host corporate events or do keynotes. A week or so ago, I was in Singapore hosting the Private Banking Awards in Asia. So I get flown around to do that. And the other thing that I'm really passionate about is I do these keynotes about human connection and communication. And the other thing that's within that, I've started doing my keynote on creativity and I cite this podcast and all the things we've learned on this podcast and I'm putting into a really fun keynote to inspire people to be more creative which is lovely I'm really enjoying so that's something that you think might be of interest to your company or your conferences or your events and you think oh let's get the magic guy at our event you can have a look at all that it's all on benhanlin.com and that's my plug for me but let's get back to this podcast um i've honestly as you know i'm really trying to grow this and you all your lovely messages have been great people who've been finding the show listening and messaging me and i try and reply to everyone so if you're new hello you can drop me a dm usually on instagram's best at ben handling uh i'm on linkedin and other things but ben handling on instagram is great and um my request how do we grow this obviously the whole like and subscribe is really important because it means you miss a future episode which would be great and what I would all I'd ask is if you're enjoying this and you think you've got a friend who's into comedy or might be into this podcast take out your phone right now load up your whatsapp or your messenger and just drop them a message and share this episode and go hey I think you might like this and if we could all get one other person to listen this thing's going to grow and I get to keep doing it which would be lovely and hopefully you get to keep enjoying it so we're all winning um but if not you can always just dm me and say hey how's it going and the other thing as well if i'm being totally honest with you guys is guests are really difficult to uh book on a podcast like this so i spend a lot of my time booking guests so if you are a potential guest a creative and you'd like you think we could have a chat just drop me a message if you know somebody if you work with someone if they like whatever you think i'm open to suggestions because i want to get try and create the most interesting catalog of guests as well.

41:12Ben Hanlin: So there we go. That's enough of my ramblings. Drop us a DM, drop a WhatsApp, etc. Let's get back into this week's episode. Enjoy the rest of Matt Richardson on What's the Trick? I want to talk about Q &A. Yes. So to give some context, end of last year, you started doing Q &As on TikTok and you do loads and loads and loads of these a week. People ask you questions, you answer them, you're extremely honest. It's almost like nothing is, well, everything is, you'll answer any question. So So talk to me about this Q &A thing. Where did the idea of this come from for you? It wasn't an idea. So I have always, like everyone, I've been uploading onto TikTok, putting stand-up up, you know, the odd thing here and there, like two or three a week, and some would do well, some would die and just go nowhere.

41:57And then between Christmas and New Year, I was at home, I turned on the telly, and I was on a talking head about 80s movies. And I sat there and I went, I don't remember doing this. Because I don't know if you, but I went through a phase of doing like channel five mate two a month like there was a point where they were massive and I did so many of them that I was like and then someone just went how much do you even get paid for those yeah and I just you know I'd never done it before where you know it's when I you know you can reply to a comment I just went you get paid between 500 and a thousand pounds depending on them maybe occasionally a little bit more and then someone went how does it even work like do you yeah do you um you know do they send you the clips in advance you get them And it just started like that.

42:38So it was organic, really. And then all of a sudden, people were going, oh, you do the Red Bull Soapbox race as well. Because the first time people were watching stuff, really, for me, consistently over that day. And then people were going, oh, what's it like doing the Red Bull Soapbox race? And then I just started answering them. And the more I answered, the more people started asking. Because they're like, oh, he will answer these. And I just started doing them. And it was that thing because it was between Christmas and New Year. I wasn't doing anything else.

43:05Ben Hanlin: And now do you do it every day? every single day so i will this dedicate these absolute dedication to such a niche part of social i know it's really weird because like so that started and then so and then i remember getting to like i was getting married in january on the third and i remember so it was like the 27th to the third and i was like i've had a million views this week that's never happened to me that's crazy and like i picked up like 8 000 followers i was like jeez this is like took me a year to pick up 8 ,000 followers and then I just carried on and like what we now, beginning of May so since the 27th of December I think it's like 45 million views on them, like it's just gone bananas and I always think oh people will get bored and then one will catch for some reason like and look I have been very honest about my opinions about comedy but money, people are very interested in like I'll go what's the most you've ever been paid for a single job and I've told them you know like I'm not bothered or Or how does it work?

43:59How does it work with commission and an agent?

44:01Ben Hanlin: So you've been doing this so long now, like four or five months, and you've answered hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of questions. Yeah, yeah. So what are the themes that you've noticed your audience keep wanting to know about? People want to ask you about comedians. So there's been people really like you talking about. I did one about Lee Evans. Someone asked what my thoughts on Lee Evans were. What are your thoughts on Lee Evans? He was brilliant. He was basically the spearhead of the arena comedy world. You know, like he was one of the first to kind of blow up in that way. And by all accounts, you know, I saw him in an arena and I spoke about the fact that I don't think comedy in arena is great.

44:35But he brought it to the mainstream in a way that it hadn't been before, like and very observational stand up.

44:41Ben Hanlin: And didn't he also deliberately keep his ticket price quite low? Yeah, he had good, 40 quid, had really good ticket prices and also dipped like he went, like he retired. Whereas there's lots of people that carry on and you go, oh, you sort of you've made all the money. why are you still going? He retired in 2014 and just that's him. Done. But also, he didn't just retire, like some people would retire from comedy but they'd be a presenter on BBC One. It's gone. It's like vanished and just enjoying his life. It's unbelievable, isn't it? You've never seen him anywhere on anything. And I think that's why he's well loved.

45:10Ben Hanlin: It's the classic Batman thing. You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become a villain. It's like Peter Kay's tour has been quite controversial because there's a lot of old material in it. Have you seen it? No, I haven't been to see it. Have you? No, I haven't. But people have said to me online, and my dad went and he was like, it's just, it feels like a cash in. And people now are turning because they're like, I feel ripped off. Whereas Lee Evans left when everyone loved him and people, that love has only grown. That's been really common. People asking about comedians, like Richard Gad obviously wrote Baby Reindeer.

45:38Someone asked about him the other day and I've known Richard forever. The other one, I get asked this all the time and I don't have an answer, which is, what's your exit plan? You don't have an answer. or you don't know? Well, it's my, like, you know, you say to someone who works, say if you're a really successful accountant, but you're not going, what's your exit plan?

45:58Ben Hanlin: Yeah. Okay, so I suppose a different question to that is do you, how far ahead do you think? Are you like a year, two years, five years? Maybe like a year. No, I'm not five years ahead. Like I'm like, okay. So I'm now thinking about a tour in September 27. So that's as far ahead as I'm thinking at the moment. But it's weird because like gigs, it's a weird thing in comedy because you've got career stuff and job stuff is how I look at it. So the comedy clubs and gigging and doing theatre gigs and all that where there's a mixed bill, that's the job. So I can plan that. I'm planned a year ahead for that.

46:28I can book that. And you could do that to your 60 as well. You could do that to whenever you like. There's plenty of comedians doing it. Like Jeff Innocent, who's blown up online. He's nearly 70. He's done it for 30 odd years. It's a job that is away from the public eye and you just go around and you just have a great time. It's like your office job almost. And then there's career stuff, which is like TV, online, radio, whatever it is, they sort of push you further ahead. But that's the two sides of it. So the job stuff, like that's, and also really for the past few years, like I've been doing, you know, I've sort of not just had a linear up, like I've plateaued.

47:03And then the last couple of years, things have been going a bit better. And then it's taken off a bit again online.

47:07Ben Hanlin: But I've just been a jobbing comic and that's been enough for me. Can we, let's talk about that. Because I think of the way I try and, me and you have had quite similar careers. We kind of started off on telly at the same time. We're both on ITV2 and I'm not on telly anymore. And I try and describe it to people as people's celebrity status, having a share price, a stock price. And some years you're up. Your value is up. Everybody wants you for things. You can charge more. And other years you're just not the thing. Your price drops. Same stuff you're doing is just not worth as much, right? And you keep having these ups and downs.

47:39Ben Hanlin: It's not going up constantly like everyone else is doing. How did you deal with that? Well, the thing is, I remember when I got that job and now I look back on it, the show was really famous and I was a part of something bigger. Like I was on that. I did a tour off the back of it and I wasn't selling loads of tickets. Like it wasn't an audience who bought comedy tickets necessarily. And also, yeah, they knew who I was, but they weren't fans of mine. It felt like they were like there were some that were, but not loads. And I remember sitting and having a meeting about this tour and they were like, this will end at the O2.

48:10like this is you're going to blow up but i've had that meeting about blowing up about eight times right where you're like this is the i remember joining virgin like this is going to be the thing i was there four years i don't think anyone listened you know like it's so i think those first times you're like yeah this is it and then you go oh it's not is it well with that interesting

48:30Ben Hanlin: so i've heard you talk about this before and i've had this it's slightly in my career is that you represented you're on big shows and lots of exposure but it didn't equate to tour tickets no not many like I wasn't but I was doing you know 150 seaters I wasn't doing big rooms whereas you can go on other shows like you could be a regular or mock the week and then those people sell more tickets yeah because the audience is there absolutely if you were doing it all again and looking back and obviously like you we don't regret things because we deal with but if you know if you were advising young Matt now how would you have played that scenario differently do you think I still would have done it yeah because I've really enjoyed I've done loads of weird stuff I've done ghost hunting shows I've done documentaries about weird things and I've really enjoyed it now and also actually I probably I'd only been gigging four years would I have been able to play a tour of that size?

49:23Probably not whereas if something were to happen now I am much better equipped because I've been going for 16 years I would be able to do those gigs whereas actually you can have I think look if there was a world where you could have gone can i guarantee i could have this job in three years or four years yeah but you don't get that do you like those opportunities don't come up where you can go can i do this later on but so you've got to take it and see what happens um but what's been funny about like like you said the lack of fame and things and like ebbing and flowing is people on tiktok are like what have you been up to then and like they think you maybe have just disappeared but you're like oh no i've and it's and that job has got me a lot tough work yeah you know that got me into a lot of other tv shows it got me a lot of gigs so it was a good calling card yeah and for years i remember the first few years after not doing it like people that was all people would remember me from and i was really upset and they wouldn't even know i was a comic whereas now people are like oh you're that comedian which is quite nice

50:19Ben Hanlin: yeah so i had a phase of like it was always like oh when you when you next back on the telly and you go oh well i've got this thing that i'm working on i think that'll be out yeah it was like when are you next but in the question you'd always when you next back on then and then And eventually you had to just go, I'm not. Basically, it's like somebody asking you, why have you been fired every day? It's hard, isn't it? Because I think like, like I remember when I stopped, when I got fired or they didn't have us back, like it was a really good thing because when I was just doing comedy full time, like that's a hard thing to quantify.

50:48Like my parents, like my dad, when I was on The Extra Factor, could say to people, that is my son on that show. And it's a way to quantify success to people who aren't in the industry. Whereas now, like I've been a full-time comic for you know since I was 20 I've never had a real job and like for me that's success but like it's hard when you're trying to justify what you do to other people yeah whereas now people go oh what do you do and I go I'm a comedian and they go oh what is your job and I go yeah and like that is enough for me but back it's hard enough but then people go well I've never heard of you and I go well I don't care whereas back then I'd be going oh no but I've actually been on Nevermind the Buzzcocks and I've been on Celebrity Juice and I've done and you try and like talk whereas now if people are that I go well I've never heard of you either so it doesn't really matter does it it's a job and that's it and I think when you're young and you're doing it like a lot of my self worth was tied to it I guess whereas now I am I think I'm really good at my job I think I'm a you know I will rip a gig in front of anyone like I am not I will back myself so I don't need other people to know what who I am because I'm like you'll see me live and then you will yeah

51:55Ben Hanlin: and also you're not chasing so when you're in the telly world you are chasing somebody to look at you and go oh let's get him on the one show let's get him on there and all it takes is a commissioner to leave yeah like you'll have a commissioner who's like we were both working under Kate Madigan who both was giving us stuff and then she goes and you go the new person wants to bring in talent they work with already and it's just you know I remember having a meeting with ITV where it was like they said it's not if you have your own show it's when they said that yeah yeah yeah still waiting him um but because then that commission the commissioner said that to me angela jay yeah we had this meeting she then left not that long afterwards yeah you hear that you hear this in music i've i know a story you know of bands that have made entire albums and then it's got put on a shelf because the person who commissioned the album left the the record no one else believes in it yeah um and that's that is i think the thing that i've noticed that changing out of that industry is just needing a bit more control yeah and then you seem way more content in yourself oh my god yeah you're controlling your own destiny and also like i think when i was younger you know my job was my life and then now you know you meet someone you settle down like and you you work to i work to live now like i love my job more than anything yeah but there is no there is no gig in the world i would rather have than sitting at home do you know what i mean like i love gigging and it's my favorite thing but like oh god i just love being at home and like just having a having a pot around yeah um i can't talk about your q a's without basically asking the question that i've always been interested in and might be too early to tell because you haven't got tickets on sale yeah but obviously you're being really open you're building a real connection online you've got 8 million views a month and it's quality views it's not you like just dancing to random songs you're actually like connecting do you think that's gonna change your touring off the back of this so every gig i'm doing at the moment there are people who are like we are here because we follow you or we've seen your tiktoks and like we wanted to come i think because i'm talking about comedy yeah that really helps because like people you know i'm talking about the thing that i do so people associate you with it whereas when i've done presenting and stuff they don't associate you with it and it's going to find the fans that are into the thing yeah they're going to buy tickets to the thing and also it's because i guess there's a bit more flurry i don't know how it all works but like so when i put a stand-up clip up now it does much better so people are seeing a lot more of my stand-up which is nice and that's the thing i think i'm best at and like it's weird because i think if i did if if say like a job like extra factor was now we never uploaded stand-up you didn't upload stand-up it was like not the done thing yes because you didn't want to ruin it by uploading it.

54:37Whereas if we were uploading stand-up then, it probably would have been different because people would have seen your stand-up. Whereas I didn't have any stand-up you could access online at all, really. And now people, if they, you know, I've had people say, oh, we wanted to come and see a comedian on tour and we looked at your videos and another comedian's and we preferred your stuff. So we came, you know, people can test it out, can't they now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is bizarre, isn't it?

54:57Ben Hanlin: And we're all protective of it as well because you worry that if you give it away, they're not going to want to come to the show. And it's the total opposite. Yeah, because also they forget it and they're like, oh. Yeah, and also, look, I mean, the good thing with comics is, you know, if I host a gig and it gets filmed, like, you have some crowd bits and then you're not burning anything. Yeah, yeah. Right, Matt, we are going to move on to our final part of the show, Ben's Fast Five. Yes. I mean, you've not listened to it, so that's fine. You've said yes like a fan. I just like the name. Just a pro.

55:26Yeah. Just a proper pro, mate. I'm a fan of you, so it doesn't matter. What's been your favourite episode so far? Scott Bennett, mate. Yeah. I bet it took longer than an hour. Oh, he loves an over-run, does Scott.

55:37Ben Hanlin: Right, OK. So this is Ben's Fast Five, and we're going to start with my Highlander question. Are you familiar with the film Highlander? I am not. OK. In the film, they're immortal. When they kill other immortals, they don't just kill them. They steal their expertise and skills. Ooh. So if you could steal anyone on the planet's expertise and skills, who would it be? You. Don't be stupid. Because have we ever spoken about this, that I did magic for years? Well, you told me... Well, yeah. So you're one of the few people in the industry actually quite likes magic. I love magic. And you've come to my shows in Edinburgh.

56:11I have a real, so from about the age of 13 to 16, I did lots of magic. I loved magic. I was obsessed with magic. And even now, the other day I was in a bar in Glasgow the other week with a friend, and there was a close-up magician, and he was brilliant. And I just want to do it. I find it so skillful and impressive and elegant. I really love magic. Okay. Like I'm such a magic softy That I would have yours

56:36Ben Hanlin: Do me a favour Steal David Blaine's He's much better Well I thought you were going to say Someone comedic No Like I Because I think I can learn comedy Because I've been doing it for years You can still get better But that Because I tried I just wasn't I couldn't get my head around All the stuff Oh okay Like I've not got Enough like Dexterity Dexterity in things And I didn't have the patience To learn it Yeah If I could wake up And be a brilliant magician Just to like Go around in life like that I would love that. See, I think I would be like that with guitar if I could be a musician. Piano as well would be lovely if you can crack that out.

57:09Ben Hanlin: Time capsule. So the mythical government are putting together a time capsule. They can only keep one thing you've done. It can be a project. It can be a joke. It can be anything. It goes in the time capsule. Everything else you've done is evaporated. What are you putting in there? My argument with Honey G on Celebrity Coach Trip. That's gone viral, right? Yeah, a couple of times. And I talk about it in my show that I'm putting on YouTube in June. It's just a moment that like, it sort of encapsulates because I was so annoyed about doing Coach. I needed to do it. I needed the money. And she hated me so much.

57:43And just the moment where I slam her, it's just perfect. For those that haven't seen it, can you come up with that? So obviously we all know Coach. Coach Strip. And you vote for each other at the end of the day, all the pairs. And I was on there with Will Best and Honey G voted for us. She didn't like us straight away. And she went, look, I just feel like you two are putting on a facade. And I went, thanks for telling us that, Honey G. like I couldn't believe she'd said it. And like, it's people talk to me about it all the time. It's just one of those where like, not many people saw it at the time, but it's just like a part of my law now.

58:13Ben Hanlin: It's a bit like that, you know, certain daytime clips go viral. It's a bit like that come dine with me clip where the guy doesn't win. And he's like, Oh, there you go. That's my hometown. That's Abingdon where I grew up. And it's like, you sad little person, Jane. What a sad little life. I think there's a whole show in just, viral random clips. Yeah, and just that, but I just think it sums me up and also my career. I'm on coach trip, but I can be quite funny on it. Like, that's basically it. I also love that out of all of your bit, you're like, I'm putting that in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Third question, Culture Vulture.

58:47Ben Hanlin: So what is the book, film, anything you've consumed recently that you've loved that you want to shout about? John Niven, Kill Your Friends, the book. That's the one about the A &R guy who then goes, yeah, just has a crazy life. It's sort of like 90s Britpop meets American Psycho. Yes. So it's really funny, it's really dark, but all of his books are like that. I love John Niven. So I haven't seen the film. Was it the film, Nick Holt? Yeah, the film's not great. The book is brilliant. And I reread it because a couple of years ago he released a sequel, and then I read that, and then I reread them back to back.

59:23Wasn't it based on, obviously... He was an A &R guy in the 90s. So it's like this really sort of drug-fuelled haze, and he is a serial killer and psychopath. Okay, there you go.

59:33Ben Hanlin: It's really funny. Kill your friends. Easy read? Pretty easy read? Yeah, it's not that long. Because a funny book is always an easy read. It's not heavy and lots of exposition. Great, right, that's in there. I'm going to give you, Matt, you say you like magic. I'm going to give you my magic wand. Take that. With that wand, be careful. You've got the power to make anything vanish from the world of comedy. You can widen it to telly if you want. Oh, my God, amazing. But you can vanish anything. It can be a mindset, a person, a thing, a style, anything you want. Improv. Oh. What's your problem with improv?

1:00:09It's just like a party trick, isn't it? It's just like, hey, guys, what kind of shop are we going to be in? Oh, fucking get a grip. And the problem is I know some improv groups, and they're very nice. I've seen them a lot when there's something you gig with, and you're like, I've seen you do this answer to this nine times. Like, at this point, it's sketch. Oh, don't ruin it. Because they get the same things. But it's just not for me. I'll tell you what's not for me. I am a real enthusiastic person, but the fake enthusiasm, it's all this stuff. And I really hate improv rap. There's only one good improv rapper, and that's Abandon Man.

1:00:43There's loads of people doing it now. Yeah, Abandon Man.

1:00:46Ben Hanlin: So you talk about improv. There is an amazing show at Edinburgh every year, and it is in London, I think, on a Monday, Showstopper. Showstopper is an exception to the rule. Okay. Showstopper is insane because they improvised the music as well. So for those that haven't heard this, if you ever get a chance to see this, go and see it. It's basically they come out, a cast, and they say, name six or seven musicals, and they write them down. Give us a title. They write it down. Give us a theme or a location, and they write that down, and then they start singing to a live band songs there and then. In the styles of all the musicals.

1:01:20Showstopper is incredible. I'm talking more about like four guys on stage going, okay so we're doing a situation here what's going to happen rather than like there's a proper structure to it

1:01:29Ben Hanlin: but there are some some phenomenal improv groups right that are selling out big tours yeah but it's just it's got a real Christian vibe for me feels like the kind of thing you do at church when you're not allowed to have a life fine as a teen fine look it's your magic wand it's your magic wand but I really like magic so you know I'm a man full of contradiction okay and the final question I end every episode on this question, Matt, which is, what is the trick to having a long career in comedy the way you have? If you could give advice to somebody. Turn up, be nice, do the job, invoice on time. Done.

1:02:11You'd be surprised how many don't. There we go. Thank you very much, Matt. Thank you so much. Cheers, bud.

1:02:17Ben Hanlin: So there we go. That was Matt Richardson. Another great episode there. As I said, really lovely guy. I suppose three little things that I take away from that chat. The first is I love his passion as a comedian, that his goal is to keep working at this craft that's never going to be finished. And that's just what he loves. If he could do it seven days a week, he would. And I think that's quite inspiring. I was like, oh, that's good. It's just lovely to speak to somebody who's so passionate about what they do. So that kind of inspires me and lifts me up and makes me feel positive. and that mindset for them as comedians of this the show is never finished every joke can be tinkered everything can be tweaked everything can be improved constantly I love that and the other thing I thought about how he comes up with his ideas was he's clearly going around life making himself laugh and when he finds something funny to himself he notes it down which we've heard kind of some similar things from other creatives but this almost radar and I think this doesn't nice to have to apply to comedy of going around your everyday life and when you feel something strong whether it's humor or anger or frustration or love or whatever it is noting it being aware of it and then noting it down is usually the really good starting point of a bit so for him it's obviously a starting point for comedy but i think if we a lot of the creatives the difference between i suppose crazy people and non-creative people people don't think themselves creative is that constant awareness of, oh, I felt something there.

1:03:45Ben Hanlin: Let's make a note of it and come back to it later. So that's something that I'm going to try and adapt a bit more as well. Anyway, that was just what I got from it. As I said, let me know. Drop me a DM. What do you think of this episode? If you're new, go and check out the Scott Bennett episode. Drop this a WhatsApp to a friend and let Matt know what you thought as well. It'd be great. Episodes drop every Friday. So I'll see you next week on What's the Trick?

1:04:12Thank you.