E111: Meow & Kash from Jupiter: The Real Reason Jupiter Burned $3.5B

29:11I think a timeline is tough. And I think there's likely the case that like, yeah, it's likely that I think sexes will always play well. The goal is not to kind of like eliminate all centralization. There are times and use cases in particular people that might want it. But the opportunity for DEXs is just an order of magnitude bigger, right? Because they are instant and 24-7 and available to everyone in the world. And I think this idea of bringing more people on chain and more people into the financial system more broadly can only really happen with DEXs. I think there's also a bunch of like tactical benefits that you get it, which is why you're going to see decentralized listings not become a trend into the future.

29:46It's a trend in the present, right? Like there are already many folks that are going straight on chain because they know that's where the audience is. That's where the energy is. that's where the people can actually access it without having to get dumped on by insiders. I think, I mean, talking about Trump launch, I think Trump launch is actually pretty amazing. It's like, I mean, the president of the United States, right, launched a coin, what, three days before his inauguration? Yeah. Right, and using our partners' technology slack and distributing distributor on Jupyter and further distributor on Moonshot, right?

30:28And other similar apps, right? So that is spectacular. Okay, for those of you who might not be too familiar with how it works is that basically the team that set up a single-sided liquidity pool was set up on Meteor DLMM, right? And was set to go live at a given time, right? After the treatment life. And after Tweet went live, the pool opened up as well and Jupyter immediately picked it up and verified it so to make sure that Jupyter gets scammed. So it's very important to test to make sure that the right token is verified. And immediately, because immediately everyone that uses the Jupyter API, it is immediately tradable on those places as well.

31:12Now, obviously, liquidity doesn't just get on MetaRot, because after liquidity happens, you can get liquidity anywhere. So it's actually really interesting because you have this system that really acts as like a... Think about it immediately, right? It's crazy. A token is launched. It immediately gets value because immediately people are able to swap it for USAC for it, right? So it gains value, right? It's immediately distributed via Jupyter to everywhere else. Guys, just think about how crazy it is, right? In a purely decentralized way, someone put their assets in a pool, singles in the pool, and immediately, the very second that it happens, anybody all over the world can buy it, use it, snap it, anything they want to do.

32:09That was it. Yeah. I think that the battle between the sexism and the dexes really came down to two things. And the first one was this technological component, where for a while, like, let's just be honest, you could not do large-scale launches on-chain because the tech just wasn't good enough. That problem has been solved in the last, whatever, six to 12 months on Solana and via things like Jupiter, Meteor, and some of these others. So now you can actually have a lot of users at the same time on-chain without things breaking entirely, which previously... Entirely. Yeah, a little bit, you know.

32:37And the second is around distribution, as Mia was saying, right, is that the mindshare was fully with Binance and the other centralized exchanges. And now we're increasingly seeing that shift where the mindshare is moving on-chain. And that's the distribution that really matters. That's right now. And it's so cool talking about it this year because I do feel like this is probably one of the most major shifts that happens. Guys, think about it. Everyone, what's going on? What happens in the entire tokenization process from currencies to commodities to stocks to everything shift. When that shift happens on chain.

33:15right that is the that is the shift by the way if you're talking about any shift that's the shift that's why it's interesting right because that is the shift right you know if that's one shift in human history it's the shift finance every year is somewhere between like a 20 to 25 trillion dollar industry depending on how you measure it and it is slowly but soon it will suddenly come on change and I think dramatically is cash fuck that you know why why fuck that you know why why why tell me why because everything because you just said finance is worth how much it's like 20 25 trillion now oh and that's measured in dollars fuck that okay now we are moving to a world where it's going to be inventing new currencies like new the entire world it's like it's like the entire way we measure finance is going to be replaced by a more fundamental more fundamental idea, right, this idea that anyone can create money.

34:13That is the power of decentralization, right? Because our key mental ideas, right, are still very much anchored in the idea of centralized money. I bet you, when you go to, when you study economics in school, they taught you the price, right, the idea of price, right? Then, you know, your price and USD, everything and stuff, right? And all that is priced in a certain, like, currency. But then what happens when the base of that changes, right? It's almost like, it's almost like adding a third dimension, what was basically two dimension in a graph, right? So, the goal here cannot be to replace find, trap find, no, or to move trap find on chain, no, fuck that, right?

34:50The goal has to be completely and utterly change the entire phase of finance, right? You know what I'm saying? That has to be the goal and that has to be what happens and that's the shift. So, you mentioned moonshot a couple of times, right? Which was, which was basically the button, the buy button on the Trump website. Yeah. Bye. And then people would get directed to Moonshot. And we had this big announcement this weekend at Kastambul that you guys acquired the majority stake in Moonshot, right? And I have a pretty interesting story about that with YouMeow, which is a couple of months ago. In October, I recorded a podcast with Hasbulla, which is not out yet.

35:30I hope they can launch their mincoin one day. I mean, maybe after Trumpcoin, like, they'll do it. Anyway, you were supposed to be with me during that podcast. with hasbullah in dubai a few months ago and because you are a adhd cat right we never know where you are what you're doing right so i was i was asking our favorite cat herder cash i was like two days ago two days before the podcast i was like do you think i wouldn't count on it to be honest i was like okay okay fine whatever i did the day before the the podcast with Hasbuk like you, basically call me like, oh, bro, bro, bro. I can't call tomorrow.

36:08I'm like, oh, why? I'm not surprised, but why? Not the first time. That's so funny. That's so funny. So why? And you're like, oh yeah, I'm basically cooking something big in San Francisco, right? And so then three, four months pass. And this weekend, I learned that basically what you were cooking at that time was the acquisition of a majority steak in Munchon. So basically you were doing that already a few months ago. and moonshot was that buy button on the Trump website. So my question for you is how much are you a genius or how much are you just figuring everything out like on the fly and then things happen like crazy shit happen like that but it's...

36:48I mean it's the same thing it's the same thing about how like I mean can you be honest here? Please. Can you be honest? It's the same thing about how the whole Kestemberg came together right? It's like it's a it's a combination of like instinct and i mean you know i'm a cat right cats focus on three things right cats are flexible right their strength and then their instinct and i and i i wouldn't claim to be successful in any way seriously i think we in jupiter is like tiny right you know compared to everything i thought there right and very very early i mean the dupe token is only one year old right to still to call a one-year-old baby a success is fucking crazy i would never do that I think I focus tremendously on founder energy and talent and market.

37:46I think I am very willing and able and determined to do counterintuitive things that might not have market consensus. If I feel like the right energy is there and it's in the market that I care about and the values align. I feel like when those three things happen, when there's alignment in value, when there's market I care about and I feel and my instincts are clicking, I'm very, very willing and able to make counter consensus best. So obviously I didn't know. right but i knew at a very deep level right that it was actually extremely uh synergistic and obviously um the fondos are amazing right um like just world class right in execution uh world class in like carrying over the right things right oh and world class in understanding the space uh workers integrity right as well very so important just so fucking important you know I feel like those are qualities that I deeply respected them.

38:55And that's the reason why it wasn't an acquisition. That's the reason it's a partnership. That's the reason why. And then I think, I'll say right here and right now, that I would want to support them and work with them in whatever way is most synergistic. For Jupiter and for Moonshaw and for everybody else. For the whole world, in fact. Right, I'm saying? Yeah, so that's what I think about it. Yeah. Last question on the shift that Trump caused, the Trump coin. How many big celebrities or personalities have reached out because they want to follow the Trump LFG playbook? Yeah, I mean, quite a lot.

39:37How serious do you think they are? Quite serious, yeah. I think there was this knowing that it can work and that it is now... The Overton window shifted when Trump did that, right? where all of a sudden the kind of stigma around it or the idea that all tokens from prominent people are just like instant rugs because we've seen a lot of that let's be honest I think it's but I'm just saying go on, go on, go on I'm not saying anything go on I mean of course I mean you're saying something when you say that yeah okay fine I feel like though I feel like when we call things ruck right we call anything that doesn't do well a ruck right see what I'm saying I mean the truth is actually much more complicated than that man it's like things that Sometimes the team tries really hard, but they fuck up one or two things, and the price goes down, but it's not necessarily rough.

40:25Sometimes the price goes up like crazy and stuff, but the team is really rough in a ton. So it's just not so simple. Yes, the industry sees their way. It's actually quite harmful to our industry, right? So it's more like a successful launch versus a non-successful launch. We have two examples, and for me, it's more trying to understand. For example, these other big people who might come talk to you because they're interested. if they look at what happened in the last month there is like a very successful launch and there is a very unsuccessful launch so Trump and Hack Twagger right? For me it's more to try to understand for these people who come and don't understand anything about crypto but they're big right?

41:03What are the key differences between these two launches that made one a huge success, successful launch and the other a huge failure? Kevin I think you might just be having the most important conversation ever, okay, in terms of celebrity launches. The one thing that everybody must understand, right, is that whether you're Trump or anybody else or any celebrity, right, whether you're C grade, B grade, A grade, to S grade like Trump, right, or Elon Musk, because there's only two, I think there are only two S plus clear celebrities, right, Trump and Elon Musk, right, that's it, right. Mainly because, and obviously, or take, you have some really big Hollywood stars, for example, right?

41:46In the sense? So, but I don't think they're the same tier. Let me tell you why. It's because I think the first thing is that you have, the people that create the initial value, the unsustain value and stuff, is not everybody else. It is the crypto community. And as you've seen the Trump launch, right? The crypto community is very, very, very, very able, right? without the help of any nomi, right, I'm saying, to send something to billions instantly, right? There's so much capital and liquidity and like that's flowing through crypto right now, right? So what's the key thing here, right? Now, so the question becomes like, okay, when does it go to billions and when does it go to nothing?

42:29Same thing, or it goes to nothing, right? And in my observation, kind of a three-dig joint, number one is like, how much credibility does this brand having crypto, about brand, right? Having crypto, right? Same thing. For example, you could have a person that is far, far, far lower in the rankings, in the global known. For example, how many people know this is XPT? Very rare number, right? But the number, but he's the name that is known in the crypto world, right? Therefore, his coin has the potential to do well. That example is like, obviously, Trump is incredibly well-loved in the crypto world, right, you know, because of his, like, very pro-crypto policies, right, so I think, obviously, it's three things, right, Trump is, like, but, like, he's obviously world famous, obviously, he also happens to be extremely pro-crypto, right, and, really, he's one heck of a meme, right, so when you put, like, all three things together, and stuff, he has, like, the perfect crypto brand, I feel like people are not really getting it, when you go, like, okay, a person is famous, therefore, they're going to do well, not really that right i think that's why you see a ton many many many many right you know rappers and whatnot who are world famous but i launched a coin and one cash right it's precisely because while they have widespread worldwide brand they don't have the crypto they don't have a brand that crypto people right will resonate in a suspect way right therefore if the crypto community buys into someone famous, right?

44:08But it's not, doesn't have a core crypto following. They are just buying it purely, purely for a very immediate short-term P &D. That's it, right? Because they don't actually believe that this brand has lasting power, right? Same thing in crypto, right? Whereas we, I think the reason why Trump has sustained billions, right? I'm saying even crazy up and down, It's because the critical community believes that Trump is going to be a constant brand in crypto. Even if it doesn't tweet it, just the fact that he more being around and declaring crypto policies, right? He's going to be a brand in crypto.

44:44Done. That's it. Over. And that's going to be a direct correlating effect. Right? You understand what I'm saying? That begs the question, right? But obviously, if someone's famous launches a coin and the coin starts from a very low amount, obviously, it will be higher, right, than before. The way a crypto native will approach a brand like Trump, right? And the way a crypto native will approach a brand like, say, Cardi B, right? It's very, very different. And you know that, right? Now, so, and that obviously, this is the third point, right? How should a celebrity, right, who has a lot of worldwide branding, right, you know what I'm saying, you know, right?

45:21But maybe less crypto native trust, right? See what I'm saying, you know, right? Do it. See what I'm saying, right? I think the thing that I always say again and again and again and again and again and again and again, right, that people don't really care about by saying it again and again anyway, right? You've got to build trust. You know what I'm saying? And trust happens in few ways, right? It's that you've got, number one, you've got to be patient, right? Because your brand is not a trusted brand in the crypto community by, and even if you are, by the way, you know what I'm saying? Most people would think that automatically assume that you're wrong.

45:58See what I'm saying? Right? And then if you, and remember, if you are, again, if you are not a brand like Trump, and people say you're a rock and the consensus say that you're a rock then the truth becomes the perception becomes reality you become a rock so I think it's actually really, really important for you to build trust and that's how it's true number one, spend time with the community in summary, three things number one is about how much brand equity do you have with crypto natives? And secondly, is that that brand equity would directly affect how much the crypto natives see you as a purely one-day pump and dump versus a potential long-term meme game.

46:54Right? You sense? It's very different actually with your mindset, right? And thirdly, is how you design your pre-launch efforts and pre-launch setup and post-launch communications, right, to ensure that, like, to really reassure people. I feel like there are some people, and I can think of a few, like the El Salvador president or Michael Saylor, like, those guys who have built up an enormous amount of, like, crypto-native repetition, to be able to have a long-lasting meme game. And, done right there's a bunch of mechanisms you can use single-sided liquidity pools Jupyter Lock right and saying we provide the entire set of tools and stuff to execute on the trust launch something yeah but it all has been done pretty well yeah I think that in the end not all token holders are the same right like what you want to do for a successful project is have your tokens in the hands of people that believe in what you're doing in the long term and if you do a lot of pre-sales for people who are more short-term oriented and you're just pumping it to KOLs or whatever else you can expect that you know, things are going to get a little bit rocky versus if people have a lot of brand faith in the equity or in what you're going to do within crypto, they're much more likely to be along for the long-term ride, right?

48:08And you design your launch in a way that gives assurance. Yeah. Yeah. I think that like what we're going to increasingly see, my bet, is more transparency on-chain. I think there's also the beauty of the general shift to being on-chain is that we have the tools to show on-chain investing, to show like, hey, don't believe me. You can verify that my things are not going to come to me for a long time. you can look I mean Joop is a great example of this right the transparency audits that we've been doing you can see where all the tokens have gone you can see there's no OTC deals you can see there's nothing shady going on behind the scenes and I think as more people kind of move into this transparency meta we're going to see more likely long term success Alpha and Alpha can I share the Alpha here?

48:46share the Alpha drop the Alpha drop it Alpha Alpha we are we are launching something that will help people launch we did launch and stuff we did launch it at the custom booth and stuff, but we'll be releasing a tool to actually, we'll be releasing a service, right, to help token creators and stuff give a lot more certainty, right, you know, to their token buyers, their token knowledge are legit. Yeah. That's genuine alpha. That's pretty, that's genuine alpha actually. Cat pack. Cat pack. Cat pack because C-A-T. Yeah. Certainty, alignment, transparency. Yeah. Get it? Yeah, yeah. It's going to be fun.

49:25It'll be an experiment. The biggest alpha this weekend is also that we actually didn't share all the alpha during these two days because there was too much. Literally. Literally. There's some other things that I can't, like that I recorded this weekend I can't release until in some time because I'm like, oh, this was not announced, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, and then I was asked, why is it not announced? Because they have, they had too many things. Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, Kevin. Actually, that day, you know what's crazy? You know what's crazy? Alright. So what's crazy, you know what's crazy?

49:55The week that I missed the the podcast, right, and I was like doing stuff in America and stuff, I was working on this, there were two deals working on concurrent, right, and I haven't done a second one yet. So yeah, so there's enough one. There's a lot, there's a lot, there's a lot, there's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff. So you said before, when I asked how many people, celebrities have come to you and reached out, you said many, and then I asked, how serious are they? How are they? You said, very serious. But now you're telling us that based on how they should launch, there's no shortcut, right?

50:31Which means that for most of them that don't have a brand equity in crypto, they should not do it directly, right? And for me, my main question is, you guys are a business, right? You have very good intention for the space, which we understood before, talking about integrity for the space, etc. But you're also a business. How do you balance the fact that you might have these big people coming to you that you know is very likely to not work out because they don't have a big brand equity in the space and you can't build that in a day or two, right? It takes a lot of time. Versus the Trump launch, for example, probably created an enormous amount of fees for the business, right?

51:07So you have this, you're in between where like, oh man, now we have this stack that we're going to market to like all these big people because we want to be the ones onboarding them. But at the same time, we know but if they don't have a good brand equity in crypto which is the case for most of them it's very likely to not last long and therefore kind of hurt the space, right? I think, first of all I think we don't make that judgment call about it. Yeah, there's two roles you can play, like one is as an advisor where we're saying hey this is a good idea, bad idea, there's another one where you can be the tech partner, say like this is how we can make sure that it works on a technical level and I think we try to focus much more on that We are tech partners, that we do not, yeah he's right So what you said before is basically an advice, but you will never tell.

51:50We are very, I'm saying this on a podcast. First of all, it's our, how we see the space, right? And this is a podcast, right? And that's me at a personal level, right? I mean, look, man, bro, running a token draft, bro. Yes, yeah, it's not for the faint of heart. I run a major token, I run a major token myself and stuff, right? And like, it's an insane amount of work, right? and stress, and everything, right, so I talk to that at a personal level, I'm like, bro, I'm like, it's rough, I'm saying, and then you are going to get a lot of fun, and you're going to get a lot of shit and stuff, and if you launch something, given that you're high profile, you're probably going to, you know, so I talk to that as a friend, at a business level, we are a tech provider, that's actually very, very important, okay, we, the three things are very important, I'm saying, I am on this podcast, and I'm also on this podcast, I'm on, I'm on,

52:47needs to be extremely responsible, seeing? Because it's not just even to the industries, to the people who are launching the tokens, right? It can ruin you if you don't do well. I'm not joking, right? Your entire reputation and can be, we can see, you can see Haktou example, right? Saying she was doing so well before then, what I'm saying? Now she's like in a really hard spot, right? So I think it's more, I think, I'm talking industry, right? Or just everyone who happens to have connections to these guys to be responsible, right? Seeing? us as a technology provider. We're okay. We're type of provider.

53:21We don't make judgment calls. We don't make judgment calls on your thing. We won't show you. We won't show any token stuff. But we'll make sure that if you do a token and stuff, the tech set works well. Yeah. You think about it like a gym, right? Like a fitness center kind of gym where our job is not to be there. You can hurt yourself when you're training. If you're lifting heavy weights, it's possible to hurt yourself. We're not spotting you. We are not like the physical trainer who's telling you exactly how to do it. Our job is to make sure the machines work, all of the weights are there, there's no rust and so on and so forth.

53:50That's the kind of environment that we want to create. And it's for other people to come in and kind of use it in the ways that they basically fit. Obviously, we hope that everyone stays safe. We don't want anyone to get injured. And that's, I think, where some of the ideas are coming from right here. But yeah, the idea of telling people, hey, you shouldn't launch, or you should launch on this state or at this valuation, those are the things that I think are beyond the scope of what we want to do. Yeah, we are at scope, yeah. I want to talk about two more things, DripNet and the DripToken, obviously.

54:16let's start with Drupnet you mentioned Drupnet before an Omni chain Omni chain network so what is Drupnet what is Drupnet if you have to explain it to your mom or to your cat he doesn't have a cat ironically can I get really cool can I do two parts Drupnet is Omni chain work to aggregate everything

54:41we're working on an ASMR video for right now That's gonna help The podcast Get some views For sure There's so many Nerds online Who love this Okay fine That is the thing I was gonna do This is going Straight to the trailer So they're like I'm gonna see Some sexy boys Doing some ASMR From me Aggregate Align Accelerate Can you do it with us Like 1, 2, 3 Aggregate Let's do it together Aggregate 1, 2, 3 Aggregate everything Aggregate everything aggregate everything like 1 2 3 aggregate everything hey got it let's go we just need the girl for next time got it let's go okay so how would we explain to you my mom yeah to your mom buy anything anywhere zero vision yeah that's the end goal I would say it's you have one account all chains covered buy it buy any token best possible price you said mom my mom doesn't have any chains Oh she doesn't?

55:44Oh my mom understands Oh my mom is My mom's a smart lady My mom is smart too She's not interested She's more interested In like you know Like nutrition And me drinking water I still go out My mom doesn't give a fuck What I do The only question She asks me is that Do you drink water? Have you eaten your fruits? Have you taken my thermos? I love her talking mom but so then in a single line it's one place buy everything that's probably the easiest way reality I mean okay honestly I do feel like the reason why we think that that is actually the place for actually everything is better because one of the really big things you want to do for Gymnet is for developers too we want to make sure that it's like a single decentralized access point right for everything see what I'm saying whether you're a user or developer or anything you know so that's what brings them to me yeah so I think yeah I think that's how I do it yeah you burned more than 3.5 billion dollars worth of Zrip and a cat the cat is fine by the way the cat is made of metal yeah yeah it's because it has 7 lives right 9 lives yeah yeah it's 9 I think I mean you tell me I don't know yeah why did you burn that many tokens and that much money what because like before we talked about an airdrop 7 or 800 million dollars which for normal people in the normal world they would be like what the fuck you're giving money out to people which sounds crazy already but here we're talking about burning burning billions of dollars like how do you explain that to someone who doesn't understand crypto why would you do that I would say I'll say something as well trust right trust right I think I think early on last year I think I think early in cat years about mid cat year zero this cat year one by the way every Catstumbo is a Cat New Year get it every Catstumbo is a Cat New Year there's Lunar New Year Gregorian New Year Cat New Year yeah yeah and like Muslim New Year there's Cat New Year okay and so like so every Catstumbo marks the so before this Catstumbo was Cat Year Zero then it was Cat Year One okay cool alright so in Cat Year someone somewhere in mid Year Zero we started to which is 2024 as a translation for only humans who are watching this right now the cats will get it but humans are here cats are here So I think, so it's like, you know, I think the, come on.

58:15Are you laughing? It's the same thing if you're asking to a person who is more familiar with the Chinese calendar, right? You're going to explain it's the same thing too. It's cool. Yeah, that's why I'm translating, Mikael. Thanks for translating, bro. Thank you. Okay, S.L.S. So I think somewhere in mid-year zero, I think we were getting a lot of like, community war risk, right? FTO was very high, emissions were too high, and everything. But I'll be honest with you, I think the way we designed the tokenomics at the very start, certainly we didn't expect the valuation to be as good as this is right now.

58:51By the time we launched it, it was a bit too late. It took an update. So anyway, we had to... It's actually what happened was that the circulating supply ended up being a lot smaller than we wanted it to be. See what I'm saying? You know, right? And so that was like a problem for the whole first year. But here's the thing. We don't do anything based on price. We don't. I swear to God, cash is there, right? It's a fact. We don't do anything with price. We do things because price is transient. You know what I'm saying, right? Price is very transient, right? But what we care about is the fundamentals, right?

59:25So I feel like one thing that's going through in my mind is very simple. How do we make Juke a much more trusted token But I think that, so I think in that regard, I think I did double, right, to essentially reduce the total supply, right, you know, of jubes. And it wasn't just a, it wasn't actually just a, it wasn't just a superficial exercise, right? The team actually voluntarily, I mean voluntarily, agreed to cutting away 600 million jubes, right? From their own allocation, right? And also subsequently all the other emissions is also cut by 20%. So I feel like, I think in doing so, I think we did actually reduce the emissions a lot.

1:00:10And after the Catburn, and after Jubilary, and after the First Cliff, which is the team also volunteered a lot, by the way. We are at a very healthy circulating right now, 30%, which is amazing. Same thing. And also, I think the team has also agreed to keep most of the tokens that they are investing. So I think all that brings us to probably one of the healthiest emission strategies you can think of for any major project that requires funds. And that's why. Because we had a vision of being a token that people could trust. And that gave people a lot of certainty. I think that the high potential tokens was actually what might have caused some people anxiety.

1:01:03So we wanted to reduce that. At the very same time, we didn't compromise on our long-term strategy goals. Because our goal is simple. We want Juke to be a key strategic resource for the community, to grow the meta. It's a very powerful tool. It's an alignment tool. It's a very powerful tool to grow the meta. So we want to preserve the ability for us to have that flexibility to execute on things. We kept that. So I think 30 % is like, to me, execute things are balanced. I still think it's a balanced between having, along the team and the community, to have a certain degree of flexibility to execute on big initiatives we want to do.

1:01:43But also to assure the community, assure the holders and staff, that the emissions will be very well managed. So that's the reason why. is for more certainty and more trust and more alignment. We talk about community and the token as being this tool, right, to put everyone together. But one of the main reasons why people are in crypto is because they want to invest, right, and they want performance. And there is a crazy opportunity cost of capital in crypto because there's so many tokens. Yes. I'm crazy. Insane. You want your, if you invest in JIP, right, because you're part of the community, you believe in the community, you believe in the product, you believe in the future.

1:02:24You want your token price to go up, right? Jupiter is a mega successful app. I mean, you said before, it's not as successful. I mean, it's going to become much more successful, but it's a mega successful app. You are on an M &A spree, right? I mean, you're literally like buying businesses. No, no, we are not. No, we are not. We are not. We are most humbles and kinders in crypto. No, no, no, we are not. We are not. Kevin come on man since when do you see me that way come on bro we hang out man I don't do that stuff come on come on man how do you how do you translate the business success into a token success so first of all I got something which is I have something that I'm very grateful for which is cash

1:03:40Hey, that's you. has the Broadcom okay it's on acquisition free okay we are on the values synergistic mission okay it's the and as the Jupiter as Jupiter has had self-grown and the product suite has grown it's become more comprehensive I think there's the there's just more surface area for people that we can do fun stuff with yes okay thank you fun thank you okay that's first and foremost right this is the difference of English between people who study in the US and people who come from Switzerland and don't know how to speak English, right? But it all means the same. Or have good speakers. Except you.

1:04:17Except me. I'm an English speaker. Yeah, I'm a proper speaker. But you can speak English, right? Can you? I can translate. Yeah, yeah. Translator, even better. Because we need an English translator, right? So that's my... That's your role, yeah. Let's add deco. Translator is about me. What were you going to say about me? Exactly. So you are the guy right there. Give me my flowers. That's all I came here for. These cameras are rolling, right? We're recording this? He literally postponed his flight to come here. Give him the flowers. Okay, it's not flower giving. It's blint shifting. Get it? I'm blint shifting.

1:04:50Okay, I'm not joking. I'm actually very serious. I'm shifting about the hint. Cash, are you ready for the blint? Bring it, brother. Let's do it. Let's go. Let's go. Thank you. Okay. All right, let's go. Okay, so one of the really important things to do in crypto, right, is that you're going to be able to translate, right, what you're thinking and what you're doing, right, to the world. right, and to the token holders, right? And first of all, let's be very clear here, right, is that different tokens play a different role. Everyone should have a range of baskets of assets and stuff, right, that you're comfortable with, right?

1:05:27You know, for me and stuff, even before Jupiter and stuff, I have an Apple pool of personal assets, Bitcoin, ETH, and so, the more stable stuff, right? And now I am, and now for me, I'm 99.999999 % juke, right? but I did but I did actually build up that pool of assets right see what I'm saying you know right that gave me a certain stability right such that I can be 99.999 % in jub in jub and don't worry about it see what I'm saying so I don't I don't I don't buy mincoins I don't do anything mainly because I feel like if I get into that game it compromises on my ability to to execute in a very impartial way see what I'm saying you know I mean I do buy some stuff in small amounts to test the market to understand the app and everything and stuff, right?

1:06:12And sometimes investors show support, but it's very tiny compared to my position in Duke. Extremely tiny, right? So I think everybody should find a balance. See what I'm saying? Between like US and JLP and like putting money lending platforms. Because not everything is about pure speculation. A lot of things is about stability. And I'll be honest here, right? I did get to that in cash too, by the way. So me and cash, both go to a point of stability such that we can say, okay, we are all in group now. You know what I'm saying? Right? But some people might not be. So before I say anything else, I would say that that's the case.

1:06:50On the part about transiting business success to token success, I would say a few things. I would say like, I think it's very, very important that I think the community sees the bigger game you're playing, right? Which is why I'm trying to think of how to explain things, right? Like aggregate, align, accelerate. You know what I'm saying? so that even no matter how many complicated things that we do, we're able to present the key ideas in a very simple way to anyone who might be interested in or holding our token. You know what I'm saying? Also, a very complicated topic is also the topic of ASR, you know what I'm saying, which we kind of have to make sure that this year, continue to allow us to grow a community while making sure that the token is protected.

1:07:34You know what I'm saying? That's a very important goal for us, right? And now, I would talk about this guy. Hey, cool. Right. I've been. So I think, and I think, so Cash is probably the best operator and communicator I know anywhere. But none. Right? It's very kind of you to say it, buddy. I'm sure, I'll just show you, bro. I'm biased. It's my, it's my explicit vested interest. You're pumping your bags. To sell you right now. Well, it's all even harder. Keep going. Right. To be able to... And, okay, the way I have to experience this with people, right, is that I am somewhat of an acquired taste.

1:08:23Right? Like, and... And so one of the things that I've been... One of the things I'm very grateful to cash for is I think... And not just me, but Sean too, by the way. Sean appreciates you. Yeah. Love the book a lot. Yeah, yeah. Right. It's like, I think... I think Sean... One thing that Sean... Me and Sean appreciate a lot often is that is I think we at most operate our competencies almost at different parts of the stack. Xiong's expertise is like product details, contracts and customer support. Yesterday during a cat burn, I was shouting for him. During a cat burn, by the way, the most major symbolic event I'll sit on camera right now.

1:08:58It's fucking amazing, right? At the most major symbolic event of the conference of Jupiter's history, probably D. D. this symbolic event right definitely right um I was shouting for him hey where is Sean where is Sean because I want to take a photo of him right casual where is Sean where is Sean that's weird and then he he came back like you know after the cat burn 15 minutes later I was like where the fuck were you where the fuck were you he's like man he was like oh he was like oh some API broke and I do customer support oh my god I can't believe it he was doing customer fucking support doing the biggest fucking like thing ever and I mean I was looking at my phone and saying he wasn't customer support that is Sean man that is fucking Sean fucking amazing right amazing right but I'm saying and then for me I also have the media wear right I transit the I transit the I transit kind of like everything we're doing at the product level and tech level into kind of like into key ideas and metrics but it's the transit and then I think that but we have been missing a really important part of the stack right which is like which is someone that could like operationalize right and put it into a concrete process and strategy and be able to communicate those things and then that answers the question right about how we translate right we don't know yet he might fail he might suck but I think so far it's good

1:10:28what do you think anything they say I just gave you flowers and I shifted them to you I think that it is where I think lucky to have a really strong community that's already really bought into the ideas. And so, thank you. Thank you. I'll cut you off. You said just now that you came in, for anyone who hasn't been following us, Jupiter recently and stuff, I have to cut you off right here. Okay? He said earlier that, he said earlier that he just joined. The truth is that, like, that he was a really, really big part of the Jupiter community formation. Right? When the Jupiter, when the Jutagon first launched and the ideas was not Locking Stone yet.

1:11:08It wasn't. People just know Jupe and the meta. I know. There was nothing not, right? He, we started hosting a Wednesday, every Wednesday, a call, a proprietary call, right? And, and then like, that call and the, and the subsequent things that came from that call, the work groups, everything, right? He was a really crucial part of that all the way, you think? And, and, and that's the reason why we started working together, right? Because we're like, wow, this is fun. And we, I mean, he was obviously, obviously, I think obviously it became much much later it was only at the start of this year that he could call me bro and then do it but I was like holy shit he's like wow if you could if you could do so much right just as a advisory role imagine what could do together right so that was so he was a repair then so no so you didn't come into a situation you created a situation oh but it's still a bitch what else can I say I think that like it's really about three things.

1:12:09The first one is obviously orienting around the long term. And so the more we can get tokens out of the hands of people that are trying to flip it on a day to day basis and more into the hands of people that understand the long term vision here, the better it's always going to be. The second is ensuring that we have like a really strong community such that, you know, me and Meow and Siong are not the only voices out there doing it. And so you can see this right now, like Twitter constantly dominated by people writing threads, explaining what's going on, explaining, you know, metrics that, you know, we don't like to talk about as much because they come and they go.

1:12:37But other people in the community take different perspectives and communicate in different ways. And then third, of course, there's ways in which you can actually make that alignment much more material. One of those being like the Juke buyback program that we'll be doing going forward, where 50 percent of protocol fees on Juke.ag go back into accumulating the Juke token. I should say accumulating, not burning, because we burned 3 billion, and that Jupe is, I think, very useful. So the more we can kind of... We love Jupe. We love Jupe, and we want more Jupe. And so that's kind of the evidence here.

1:13:06So buyback and long-term asset. That third one really tightly says that, hey, when the product does well, the token should also, or token holder should also be happy, and vice versa. So it creates this very nice flywheel. I feel that actually, the main thing there, also around the certainty thing, that's also why we did 3 billion, the 3 billion burn, right? And we cut emissions, right? Again, we didn't just do a tribulation burn, right? The team voluntarily cut, you know, 20%, right? And then the community also approved the cut emissions, right? See what I'm saying? Right? So I feel like it was a whole cohesive, entire community effort to kind of build trust.

1:13:44But in cash, do you have a fight to cash? I do, actually. I do have to get out of here and head to the airport. So I'm going to jump out right now. But you know what? I got a better looking guy to replace you come on guys hey wait wait hold on let's just clap and then he can replace me ready one two three so we have a sexy boy joining us today to conclude this episode yes that was a very lively episode Erbil yes Erbil how's it going Erbil my best friend Erbil how's it going awesome man awesome I'm like so happy that we wrapped up Catstamble with like an amazing event an amazing ending to the tree, right?

1:14:23Such a great ending, and honestly, super thanks to Erbil, who put it off. This guy put out the burning can, I think, when I, basically we announced it at the rally to say that we're going to do an event, Kukka-Sambu, and we're going to burn a can, right? You know, burn a wooden can, not burn a rock, obviously, to be clear, to burn a giant can, statue, right? People, I was like, but honestly, when I said that, I'm like, I don't know how to do it, I just call this guy I'll be like Hey guys Hey dude You know what Let's do something It may happen Oh man Anything for you I mean to be honest I didn't know If you could pull this off When I heard the idea You said yes This is no problem I said this to you Because you know If You think this has asked you Is this really So important for you Right And you said Dude we have to make this happen And I'm like Okay we'll make it happen But in my mind I'm like This is Istanbul We're talking about like this giant cast statue.

1:15:23We were talking about like lighting a huge giant fire. Like you can't lit a match in the old city. Like this is like the historical city is all protected. Like you just can't lit a match. And I'm like, okay, how are we going to pull this off? You know? How do you do that? So first of all, would you bribe with some Bitcoin? No bribing. No bribing. No bribing. No bribing. Dude, like I think the lucky thing is you know, I have like this artsy every time he's like kevin shut the fuck up no bro here's here's the truth here's the truth um i'm so lucky because i have this like arts life i'm a musician you know sometimes or at night and i have this like amazing friends who do crazy art and a lot of them do like this mixed art public art and these are like engineers, fire technicians like insanely, insanely smart, technical, talented people, right?

1:16:23And basically I just called up all of them like guys, we had this mission, Istanbul is happening in Istanbul, this can be the biggest event that Istanbul has ever seen, right? And this is on us if we can pull this off we're the only team who can make this happen not only a single person lives in Istanbul out of this because some people like flying from us my friends artists some people are flying from you know uk some people are flying from you know other parts of the world and just like everybody came here for like two months of a sprint right like we just tried like every possible thing to just make everything fit into the safety codes make sure like nobody will be burned and you know no cats will be damaged they were they were very precise because i was i was very in many ways i was a very crucial fire and stuff i was the i was not in the fire right and so yeah it was like it They were like, no, you can't stand there.

1:17:15You must stand there. You must stand there. Very precise. But preserving the semantic effect, right? That's right. That's right. So we pulled it off, man. We pulled it off. Thank you. That was amazing, man. Thank you, bro. Thank you so much. So when you're not an event organizer, the most overqualified event organizer the whole fucking world is insane. My team is so mad with me, okay? Two months, I disappeared.

1:17:46I told him just like, just wait until you see the result, you know, and then you'll know that it's going to be worth it. That's so funny. Do you want to tell us what you do when you aren't organizing events for fun? Where you burn cats? Yeah, I'm co-founder of Human Finance and we are literally replacing the whole financial rails. and we are right now doing this for cross-border payments, replacing the banking and SWIFT infrastructure. We're doing this for companies like Amazon who needs to pay thousands of suppliers in different parts of the world. We're replacing their payment rails as well and we're also replacing the card rails because today none of the traditional credit card layers can use digital assets and we're building the platform.

1:18:34To be very, very clear, because I still don't, I must have to do my thing. You are replacing Swift. We are replacing Swift. For already in major companies like Amazon and other banks. That's right. For international distribution. That's right. Is that true? That's true. That's crazy, isn't it? We have already done$3 billion and like$2 billion in traditional finance and payment rails is like nothing. There's like a$30 trillion opportunity to replace because that's like, if you look at the traffic, that's what the traffic looks like. And banks are telling me, like, literally, some of the biggest banks in Europe are telling me they cannot wait to get a whole of this technology and push more and more traffic through that because Swift is so fucking broken.

1:19:19What's the relationship with Jupiter? Personally, this dude. Tell us the story. Tell us the story. How you went from hate to love, or from love to hate to love. Okay. Want to tell the story? Do you want me to tell the story? Go for it. Okay, alright. Oh my god, live on the most watched crypto podcast ever. Alright, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Alright, let's do it. Let's do it. Alright, 2009. Whatever, whatever. Age ago, age ago. I meet this guy online, right? Like, there's a site called Quora. It's like Reddit. And, you know, people just like experts on different topics come and just like share ideas and share wisdom and insights, whatever.

1:20:01and you know this guy finds me is like dude you know I saw your answers like we should chat more whatever I'm like flying to sleep on Milly you know and I'm like dude like come and like you know I'm crashing at my place uh you know we'll just jam and then uh there's like bunch of stuff happening around us like AngelList is like one block away Instagram at the time is called like Bourbon it's like being built like right in front of our house and you know we just like jam with these people cool people whatever and that was a fun period actually that's a fun period yeah it it was like the it was like the period where I think like literally Instagram started like two tables for me right it's like insane actually great story by the way insane time some amazing stuff happening around us and you can feel the energy like you can feel like you know that something big is cooking and that was actually at the start of what we call Web2 now that's right it was exactly the start of Web2 maybe a little bit start of mobile for sure I think I think Facebook hadn't started for a while then YouTube as well I think it was a web tool and a very small mobile that's right am I right?

1:21:10very very small mobile at the time actually people didn't even know if like mobile would be this this big of a thing for sure for sure I do think that we benefited a lot from seeing that seismic change early on and also the web tree change early on yeah I think that's right I think which sets us up really well for my fur I like that but we will talk about that later on yeah go on go on alright alright so so some years cut and then I went back I came back to this you were okay at Facebook you lived but then no no I was actually doing my doing my startup at the time oh no by the way this guy did incredible things he Facebook and lived right just and and that's what you guys know yeah but before that we'll talk about the Facebook thing later on but before that So this guy comes over And like It's the first time I'm meeting this guy But it always like We have amazing chemistry And we're just like Constantly talking about stuff And he's You know Creshing at our place Was it that early?

1:22:10Was it that early? Was it that early That I crashed? Yeah 2009, 2010 Really? No way Cora Like early days of Cora But did I crash it That early? Yeah of course Yeah man For sure And then you remember We went to Sunfire And like you end The song like You guys were there Like 2010, 2011 That's that early It was that early? Yeah man Fuck you crazy Yeah we're old No no no no But I thought I crashed Your place later No no no It was like literally We met on Quora You fly over I tell you Like dude Just come and stay Seriously? Seriously Okay fine I know the story very well Because that's the time I actually started dating My girlfriend And my girlfriend And I was staying At the same place Oh right You had an anchor moment That's right Yes I did an anchor But the whole face Of my life was so fuzzy and shit yeah I have an anchor moment because I remember everything happened but I just remember as if it went okay and then tell them sorry that's why I know the time got it got it got it I know that living with my girlfriend and you know he comes over I tell my girlfriend and my friend is like coming from Singapore he's like who is this guy do I know him I'm like I just met him like online whatever and that sounds so weird I might replace you I don't know yet baby yeah you know I met online And she's like, oh, you know, we just like start dating, whatever, living together.

1:23:31And I'm like, wait, just a few days, like he's going to, you know, stay over here. You know, we're together for more than a few days, more than a week, maybe two weeks, whatever. And then, you know, as you know, like Ming is also not the type of guy who is like filtered, you know. He's just like going to talk about whatever, you know, comes to his mind. He's a type of guy, like whatever he says is coming from his heart, is coming from his mind. But it's not coming from anywhere else. You know what I mean? and he just like keeps fucking shit the whole time and my my girlfriend is getting more and more energy every single day and then one day she just like explodes I'm like you know I'm really serious I post I heard this this is hilarious yeah she just like explodes I'm done I cannot take this guy anymore it is stuck out and I'm like calm down calm down it's so funny oh my god so big there was a very very long period of my life where I was all sleeping on cultures and random places oh yeah that's so funny i was sleeping in like random fucking so what so what ended up happening i got kicked out no no no no no thank you that's it that's standard i got kicked out and i'm done and i just she's mad has this girlfriend become your wife or she's that's right she's not my wife and every time i talk about ming i keep reminding her this story.

1:24:54She's like, please stop reminding me of this story. And now we are telling it live. Not live, but you know, it's hilarious. I'm not going to tell her that we actually got to run live on this story. I'm going to send to her. I'm going to find her. Check her down. I'm going to send to her. Yeah. And that's basically the start of our story. And then I started working at Facebook. I was in charge of getting Facebook to 1 billion users because Facebook was struggling to go from web one to web two, right? This was a very critical moment for Facebook because they're struggling to go from Web 1 to Web 2.

1:25:26And my job there, because, you know, we're like very early on the believers of Web 2 and the mobile movement. And my job is to kind of like help them get through this like mobile transition and also get them to understand like how to grow in emerging markets by understanding the culture. I remember that was interesting because that was actually the time whereby the mobile app was not that big. It was a web. Okay, here in Alpha, Facebook did not build its own mobile app it was built by Google to put on Android so the first Android app of Facebook wasn't built by Facebook at all they didn't even have you can say that they didn't have Android engineers you can say that we didn't have Android engineers but you can say that I can say that Google was like the checking we're launching Android the checking we need Facebook we need Facebook app because Facebook is one of the biggest you know applications at the time we need Facebook app on Android Can you guys build it?

1:26:19We're like, we can build it. They're like, okay, we'll build it. No, it wasn't. Oh, fucking amazing. Yeah, that was the time, man. And then, you know, trying to get Facebook to build in users. It was a crazy ride. And at the time, we're like still hanging out, exchanging ideas. I'm trying to pull him into Facebook. Even though he kicked me out. He's funny. He kicked me out of his house. But then we're talking about it. He was always connecting me to Facebook. Yeah, and then this is the dude who introduced me to Bitcoin. he's like dude I'm gonna bring somebody you know the smartest guy I know the smartest fucking guy yeah it's like this guy so fucking smart big brains big brains gigabrain man yeah gigabrain Joseph Foon right the guy who wrote the first Bitcoin Lightning Network paper and he's the guy who made it all happen and he's like I'm gonna bring my winner he also wrote the plasma paper that's right which was the precursor for all L2s that's right no one knows that because everyone knows L2s right now but he started basically he started like a cyclone and then L2s that's you so That's just crazy.

1:27:18And it's like the lowest profile guy, but crazy smart guy. Easy smart guy. And I, you know, he tells me like, let's do like a Bitcoin meetup like at Facebook, you know, headquarters. And I'm like, for sure, man, let's do it. And we do the whole thing and like, you know, it's just fucking us. Like maybe five people is there, you know, like, nobody, nobody fucking cares about Bitcoin at the time at Facebook. It's crazy. That was fun. That was fun. It was nice though, right? It was nice though. It was nice. Like 2013, you know, like it's just, yeah, no one cares. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, he's the guy.

1:27:47He's the reason that I'm in this whole shit. And now like Jupiter. That's fine. And now here we are in Kestanbu!

1:28:00Let's finish with the last question. Why are we all mega bullish on Jupiter in 2025? I think... I think... Okay. I think Kastanbu is a very important thing for me because I think I am I clear I am extremely clear about my strategic priorities right now I've cleared out the biggest questions that people are asking about the token about the product about the vision I mean people have been asking me all all throughout the year right like you know what how do you plan to do with Joke AG what's your long-term vision of jupyter you know how what's your long-term vision for the community what's your long-term vision for jupyter as a product as a price of project and i'm saying like what is your focus right but asked me these questions a lot for the whole one year right and i think i've been working extremely hard for the entire year right um to answer those questions right and i feel like i have a pretty good answer to all of them right now right that's it that's the only reason why I am, well, not the only one, but that's the reason why I'm bullish because I think I am clear about that now, all these things now.

1:29:15My team has worked really hard to execute, actually execute all these things now, right, and actually show that we can make it happen across our fronts. You know what I'm saying? Like we showed across our fronts, right? Think about it, right? Over these five days, we showed that we could pull off an entirely new revamped Joke Agree, right, with extremely innovative features as we've seen before, Ultramod, RTSC, organic, or like organic metrics, all that kind of stuff, what I'm saying, new perps, new perps, new perps, completely new, like perps like, Alkyo, we're handsome, which showed that we can pull off extremely cohesive community, community growth, and get, community growth, and gathering things, right, aka the Jubilary, and the Kaskambu, right, and the working groups and stuff, that people said couldn't be done, right, no one believed that we could do the second ad-rocks as well, no one believed that we can do an event like this as well.

1:30:08We put it off, right? And then no one, and also NGP and stuff, right, which anchored the long-term region of Jupyter to aggregate everything, right? And then, I needed to prove that I could actually put together a team, right, and the technical framework, right, that can actually put it off. I think we are early and stuff, but we are starting to be able to do that. So I think that's the reason why I think across, if you think of Jupyter, Jupyter, Jupyter, right i think in the first month of the year right i think we have affirmatively demonstrated our ability to execute on our trip funds and that's what i'm bullish yeah that's all i'm only looking at it from the perspective of i'm part of the community i'm part of i'm partner of you know jupyverse and i'm looking at the energy at cast stumble right and i wasn't expecting that for me I was not, seriously, man.

1:31:04Like, I mean, it's, you know, I've been to almost every single major crypto event. The synergy, the energy, and I think the people's optimism about, you know, everything that Jupyter has announced during CatStumble just tells me that the support of the community and the growth of the community is going to continue to happen. And I think if you look at the tweets that Coinbase CEO has published, the biggest names in the industry are not able to keep up with what's going on in the industry and I think if there's one platform that can bring it all together today this I would add to that Jupiter from what I really like I mean I knew already but like seeing this happening in real life and seeing what they're doing they're not only keeping up but they're actually creating everything so there is there is there's a lot of people copying in crypto obviously and then you have a very few people who are actually creating things and kind of pulling things out of their ass right like you don't know how the fuck they do that right like holy shit like how how like how did this guy pull that up like it's crazy right and and when you are when you are here like you really see like what they're pulling all together and it's pretty insane so So I think we can only be Omega bullish on Jupiter, not only for 2025, but for the next few years.

1:32:36Kyo 1. Amazing. Thank you, guys. Thank you for doing that. Thank you so much. Thanks for being part of Kyo 0. Thanks for being part of Kyo 0, man. And thanks for being part of Kyo 1. My pleasure. My pleasure. It's so fun. It's so fun. Thank you. So fun. Thank you. Thank you. Let's go. Let's go.

1:32:58You