E182: Jordi Visser: Wall Street Is All In On AI, But He's Buying Bitcoin Instead

29:10When did you start understanding the concept of money? because you said money doesn't make you necessarily happy but people need it and people need to understand everyone need to understand what money is how to make some how to grow it how to keep what you made because it's hard to make

29:34so because i grew up with very little money uh at the very early stages i was just grateful to be getting the money I was getting. And it was not large at the very beginning. Because when you start at the bottom of a firm and they keep telling you, well, we can only pay you twice as much in your case as what you were, which is great percentage wise. But if you double a penny every day, it becomes a big number after about 30 days, which is fine. But I realized that even though I didn't need much money and my initial statement was if I ever make$100 ,000 in a year, I will be happy. Now, my father was a construction worker.

30:19So this was where my mentality came from. He's not making$100 ,000 in a year. So my mentality was that would be a level that I would be set for life. And what I realized is no matter how much money you make, you always think you need more. And the second thing is money becomes the competition. I didn't care about school because my father didn't graduate. So I wanted to find the level that I could keep my parents off my back. So they said, how are you doing school? As long as I was getting a B plus, they were going to leave me alone. So I was like, okay, that's what I'll get. So I did the least I could to get the grades that would keep them off my back.

31:02I wasn't one of those kids that just would work hard and hard and hard. Now, what I cared about was sports. In sports, whether it's scoring a basket, scoring a goal, hitting a home run, doesn't really matter. You have some benchmark, some KPI, as you said. Now, when you get to work, it's all money because you realize titles don't matter. I was a partner at Morgan Stanley, I think when I turned 30. And I realized this doesn't actually change anything in my life, getting a title. I don't care if I'm a president or a partner or whatever. What I care about is give me more money then. Pay me more money.

31:34And as time went on, I realized that money didn't, no matter how much you had, it did not make you happy. And more importantly, when you have children, as they start looking around, you realize, wait, I grew up without money. I worked hard. You guys have money. Are you going to work as hard? So it creates issues that you don't think about later in life.

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32:47so what's the point of making all this money if it's to at the end realize if i mean happiness comes from probably like simple things obviously i need to have enough money but then even the people in my life probably don't want to attract a partner who is not too money thirsty and then you have your kids but actually having more money creates more problems because they probably become more entitled what's the freaking point of all of this. Yeah, but there's no answer to life in general. If someone said, how do you be happy? There is no formula. So I think money along with, you know, the partners you choose in life, the jobs you choose, these are all choices that people have.

33:32And as time goes on and you get older, you know, the phrase that I use more than ever, if you surround yourself with only things that bring you joy, you will have a much better life. Now, money will bring people joy. Being able to go experience a trip in Italy or in Japan, those are phenomenal things. Like to see cultures that are different and not everyone has the money to do that. And until virtual reality is perfect and people can go visit these places and actually not go anywhere, which I believe will occur at some point. Money is the thing that allows people to do things. Unfortunately, they can't.

34:15It allows you to be more secure in your health if something does go wrong and you have the money to take care of it. So all of these things, unfortunately, the way the system is right now, money is just something that's there. And if people want it, it's actually easier than they think to get in today's world, especially with artificial intelligence. So I have tried to make it a point right now to help people both younger than me, older than me, in a variety of different ways, all using artificial intelligence, because it really does allow you to get that arbitrage that I said at the beginning, which is just because you went to a good school doesn't mean you're smarter than another person.

34:57It just means you memorize things in school better than they did, or you were taught by people that were smarter. But the reality is now with artificial intelligence, You can learn from the smartest person you would ever meet in your lifetime times two, three, four, ten, a hundred, and just growing every day. And I think that just normalizes the arbitrage that's been there. AI is about to make everything abundant. Can you explain? yeah within the next 15 to 20 years um i think people are going to be blown away by how much things are at our fingertips uh it's really hard for me to have conversations with people about artificial intelligence these days because i need to know how much they use them and for the most part people don't use them at least nowhere near as much as they should partly because schools don't let kids use them.

35:56Workplaces select what you're allowed to use. They don't allow you to use everything. They don't want you to put your data into it. So it's very hard to use it all the time, which is why I don't work for anyone and never will again. Because now that I have my own digital employees, I don't get complaints. And I also don't have to deal with bosses or anyone that I've ever had to kind of tell me what I'm supposed to do or not do or regulators to tell me what I can't do. It's my business. I can do what I want. So I think when people start to realize that every year exponential change is happening quickly and that aging will no longer be something you have to worry about, that we will have cures for almost all diseases in 20 years, we will have cures for every problem.

36:43And the easiest way for me to get people to accept it is to use something they're all familiar with. So the movie Oppenheimer, when it came out, if you really paid attention to it and you converted it into artificial intelligence, we had a huge problem in the world. And they wanted to solve it by coming up with the atomic bomb. So they took all of the smartest people and brought them into one location to figure out how to solve this one problem. the IQ of Albert Einstein was estimated to be 160. The IQ right now of chat GPT 5.5 is above 140. By the end of this year, we'll have Einsteins everywhere, which means we already have AI agents.

37:31You will have billions of Einsteins that can work on every problem. So forget nuclear, forget atomic bombs, solving fusion, fission, cancer, name whatever problem you've ever wanted to solve. We will have Manhattan projects going on 24 hours a day solving all of the world's problems, which means abundance will be here because behind every cost of something, behind everything that goes on is energy and technology. And if energy is free and we've solved that problem, if we don't have to worry about where copper comes from because we've come up with advanced materials that we can 3D print. I can do this all day long.

38:09It will be work, humanoids working, all of these things will happen. So we will, within 20 years, be at a point where abundance is a real thing. If everything becomes abundant, does that mean that everything becomes more affordable? It should. And I'm sure there'll be some outliers like going to Mars and things that are kind of new and people may want to do. But for daily living and for things that are the basic needs of transportation and food and health and everything else, I see absolutely no reason why they all won't be free. If we get pretty much everything at low cost or even free because AI makes everything abundant?

39:00Why do we still need to build wealth?

39:06This is a good question. And it's probably the reason that I've ended up in the crypto mindset. I don't know how to answer it other than you have to go back to before capitalism, which is a world with communities. And so this is something I don't think people understand. This form of country is like looking at a map that didn't exist 2 ,000 years ago. You kind of did and you had wars that were going on, but people were living in little communities and they were bartering skills. They were not going to the store and buying things 2 ,000 years ago. And it was when the plow basically started that it allowed people, oh, one thing can feed lots of people.

40:02So the rest of you people can now go off to the city and become doctors and lawyers and all these different things and start going to school. And that is what started this whole job thing. It's what started the whole you go out and you do this, where in a community, people were helping each other out and doing things. There's a reason why I go to Maine, and I always say Maine is the state in the United States where capitalism has only peaked its head inside. It's still a very, very laid back place, still has lobstermen, still has people that I can relate to. It's very calm. It's filled with nature.

40:33There's very few people there, and it's a beautiful country on the coast, or a beautiful state on the coast. There's just not many places that can compare for me to Maine, but I go there for that reason because it reminds me or makes me think about community much more. And I think that's going to be the case as time goes on. So the wealth part, if you don't need money, human beings are still greedy. They're still power hungry. They still want that. And I don't think that's going to leave because animals have that too. They fight over women. They fight over men. They fight over everything. Animals are no different on that element.

41:09So I would imagine that if wealth doesn't matter, we'll find some way to make sure it still survives and still show who the best is in some form. But I don't know how to answer it. How do you get so fascinated by the world of Bitcoin?

41:31my fascination with it um was from was looking at it through a window uh until 2020 until 2020 so before that i didn't care about it I didn't care to partake. I was definitely one of those people that understood that the blockchain was something real and that Bitcoin to some degree was the way to play the blockchain. But I didn't understand it until 2020. And the reason I say 2020, two things happened in 2020. The first was COVID happened and I saw what the government did, which I was already an exponential innovation, a believer in exponential innovation, completely ending recessions. And so when COVID happened, I saw the money printing and I listened to human beings thinking that we'd have a recession or a depression.

42:34And I just remember having conversations with people that run major companies who I've known for a long time saying the world was going to end. I went, how can you believe that? Like we just print enough money and everything's fine. And he said, you can't stop this. And I went, no, you can. If you give people money, trust me, you're misrepresenting the Great Depression. They didn't have money. So they couldn't get food. But if you just throw money out of a window to every single person and you let them order things on their phone to be delivered, the world will absolutely be back. And I couldn't convince them.

43:14So I said, all right, let me ask it a different way. So far, we've printed$6 trillion. If we did$100 trillion, would you change your mind? And there was always dead silence on the phone. And that's when I realized at this point that, oh my gosh, human beings that are even highly educated believe in this risk. They believe in this thing that doesn't exist anymore. Which is? Recessions and this thing of human emotions carrying things out. And so knowing that the distribution of wealth problem was so big and knowing that the reason we were printing all this money was for the people who could not live.

43:54That's what the Great Depression was about. But on the flip side, all of the wealthiest people that I were talking to didn't think there was enough money that could print that would protect them. So the wealthy were worried and the poor were getting their checks and YOLOing it. So I realized there was something strange that was happening. And so Bitcoin became more interesting to me because it started to rally before all of the other inflation things rallied. And that's when I realized that whether it was demographics or whether it was the distribution of wealth, the masses were not worried about COVID the same way that a wealthy person perched behind their walls with their guards was worried.

44:34Then the next year, my son turned$700 into$70 ,000 and then subsequently lost it all when the winter of crypto came. But in that time where I said to him, hey, you're 13, I've got a bunch of portfolio managers that work for me. I want you to come in like you're a portfolio manager. I want me to explain your positions and how you've made this money. And we went on a ski trip and he talked to me about it. And it was phenomenal. He knew every token. He knew why he was invested in them. Some of them are still around today. And it made me realize that there was something here that was interesting to him.

45:12And when I asked him how he learned all of this, it was through Reddit and through Twitter. And that's when the phrase pump and dump was brought to my occasion. That's when all of these things and I went, so this is a real thing. Like this is something my kid turned into real money. He knows about it. It's no different than the game that I play. It's ideas that are hopefully going to be monetized. That's no different than Apple or all these things that I'm involved in. So I listened to Michael Saylor about seven times over the course of the next week. And luckily, Michael was the only spokesperson really at that time that was getting attention.

45:51And the reason I say luckily is because I said I was already a believer in exponential innovation. The reason that's critical to this journey, and for anyone who's hearing this that has not yet entered the Bitcoin belief system, what Michael Saylor talked about, which very seldom gets amplified, is his business was destroyed by exponential innovation. His business was destroyed by Microsoft. and then the government came in to print a bunch of money and his business was now going to get destroyed again by the government and the reason that was important is because they were moving rates to zero he already had a dying business where it was bleeding every year but he had tons of money on the balance sheet so it's not that he didn't make a lot of money and now the government was in his mind stealing from him and so he went back as a smart guy who graduated from MIT he's not a dummy.

46:44And he went to go learn about the history of money. Now, these are things that I was already familiar with. So when he spoke about those things, I already got that. He was talking to me about how the future is about all companies being disrupted. And that's what I saw. AI will destroy all businesses. Every single business will have a shorter lifespan than it used to have, all of them, even the ones that are going parabolic right now. And so for me, that was my understanding of the distribution of wealth problem is that the game will speed up. It will go much faster. The volatility of Bitcoin, which is no longer the same as what it was back then, will decline over time.

47:22And we will see it in my world, the world of micron technology and the world of NVIDIA and the world of all these places where now those volatilities are at the same level as Bitcoin's old volatility. But no one is complaining about those because they're making money off those. And they call it a bubble. So Bitcoin joined my life back in 2020 and 2021. What's your thesis on Bitcoin? Explained as simply as possible to a 40 or 50 or 60 year old person who doesn't really understand it. So the first thing I say to those people is, do you really understand what the fractional reserve banking system is?

48:01And if you do, please explain it because you don't know what it is. go back to it's a wonderful life the movie i don't know if you've seen it kevin it's a wonderful life there's a scene in it it's the you know one of the most popular movies of all time and it's played every year at christmas but there's a scene in there where there's a run on a bank this is taking place during the great depression and at some point with all the people in there they go your money's not here your money's in their house and they he describes the fractional reserve banking system. You give us your money and then we lever it up and lend it out to everyone else in the community.

48:37And as long as everyone doesn't try to get their money back at the same time, everything is fine. So for people who say they don't understand Bitcoin, the first thing I say is, do you actually understand the system you're playing in as it is right now? The second thing is there are only three moats in my lifetime that I believe religion has lasted for thousands of years. Gold has lasted for thousands of years. Bitcoin has been chosen by hundreds of millions of people around the world since the white paper came out as a place of a store of value. The store of values that people invest in today, their house, bonds, private equity, private credit, stocks, I don't care what it is.

49:21They have a belief system in those and they believe there's a mathematical side to it. So as long as the math is real, it's fine. So what we talked about before, I believe in abundance. So what I would say to those people is Bitcoin is a hedge against abundance. If we're heading to a world of abundance, I think 5 % of your portfolio of your wealth that you've accumulated over time always deserves to have some insurance policy, just like your house or your car or anything. So if you want to keep your wealth, why not put 5 % into the asset that young people believe is a real asset? and they're getting more money every day handed down from people who are taking Ozempic and not surviving long enough to actually live their life that they want to live.

50:04So let's take some of that money. So Bitcoin is a hedge against abundance. You talk about 5%. How much of your personal portfolio is in Bitcoin? I don't get into it. It's the largest percentage of my net worth at this point. Now, again, anyone who invests in Bitcoin from 2020 on, it's almost impossible not to, because you're talking about something that's up over 10 times, even with the level it is today. So for everyone listening, I've never sold any of it. So the way that you accumulate wealth like Warren Buffett is if you believe in something and it was a small percentage of your portfolio at the beginning and then it does so well, it becomes the largest portion.

50:48Do you consider selling Bitcoin one day?

50:54Maybe. I have no interest whatsoever in selling it as of today. I don't even think it's gotten anywhere near where it's going to get. And just so people know the valuation of it, the total sum of all the assets on the planet earth are about$750 trillion and crypto is$2.7 trillion. I believe in abundance, the fiat assets go down and the crypto assets go higher. Bitcoin is the only beneficiary of the crypto assets that I know for a fact will be here 10 years from now. No offense to all the people out there who like all these other things, but it's the only one I'm sure of will be here in 10 years.

51:33There will be plenty that do better than Bitcoin over the next 10 years, but it's the only one I can say with certainty will still be here. Just so people realize, Ford is still a company. It's been around for over 100 years. If you own the stock, it's the exact same price as it was 35 years ago. So I'll even say Bitcoin is the only one I can guarantee will be higher in 10 years. How about that? Quick shout out to the legendary team at Jupyter, the DeFi super app. Anything you want to do on chain, from trading to earning yield, you can just use Jupyter. Personally, I recommend getting the Jupyter wallet on either your phone or your laptop.

52:0910 times faster and 10 times cheaper than the competition. You're going to love it. Thank you to the awesome team at Athena for backing today's conversation. Athena is one of the fastest growing projects in DeFi with over$7 billion in stablecoin supply and an average 11 % APY on SUSDE. And importantly, zero DPEGs since launch, which is exactly what you want from a stablecoin. Go check them out by following the link in the description down below. How big do you think this Bitcoin thing gets?

52:43if we have infinite money printing and infinite abundance thanks to ai

52:52i i think it's hard to say because the true value of bitcoin in the sense of what it's replacing has to do with how much ai causes deflation so if everything is free then money is not important that Bitcoin doesn't need to be any higher than it is today. It's part of the thing that I don't think people understand is it's all about purchasing power of things. If everything is free, then why does the value of Bitcoin matter just like the other things don't matter? So I haven't thought about it other than as a hedge against the other wealth that's been there, because what should happen up until abundance is Bitcoin should outperform every asset on the planet.

53:38Everything. Not maybe a company for a year. But over the course of every five years, you should look back and be like, what was the best performing asset? That was Bitcoin. And that's what's happened since its beginning. And that's the way I believe it is that it should just outperform everything over time. And this is not about to stop happening. Not in my mind. What's your answer to someone who says that a Bitcoin at 60k or 80k, or 100k, 120k is expensive or is too expensive today in 2026. I missed it. Again, everyone has their own opinion. And most people that I speak with, since I'm in, most of the people I speak with, it's funny, I spend one leg in the crypto world, one leg in the TradFi world.

54:27The video I do every week on YouTube is 80%, 90 % TradFi. I'm about to start a second one, which will be 90 % crypto. And the reason is because I believe at the end of this year that those people who don't believe there's any value to it are starting to change their mind. And that's because of tokenization. That's because of stable coins. Circle kind of got them going last year. There's a communication that's happening in the equity market that ends up in Bitcoin. Bitcoin miners, the AI compute story. The worlds are merging. So for anyone who thinks the value is wrong, I will just tell you that I look at it relative to the two worlds.

55:09There's the digital economy, which owns our world right now with the internet and with social platforms and the Mag7. And then there's the money side, the digital money side, which is still very, very small relative to the other side. So I think it's going to go up significantly from here. You mentioned 90 % crypto in your future videos. you didn't say 90 bitcoin you mentioned crypto there's a reason for that why my view on um bitcoin is not the way most people have been trained to think so bitcoin is the s &p 500 it's amorphous it is the thing that survives over time the s &p 500 could have 500 new companies next year and people would still be invested in it.

55:59Bitcoin is the end result of all of these tokens coming and going and coming and going. The excess wealth that's created goes into Bitcoin and then we go fund another vehicle. So Bitcoin to me is the thing that'll be here. So when I say 90 % crypto, the audience cares about things other than Bitcoin. I myself care more about Bitcoin, but I'm a macro person. I also care more about the S &P than I do about individual stocks. Does that mean that you have or could one day invest in another crypto asset than Bitcoin? I own Ethereum right now. And again, I believe Ethereum will outperform Bitcoin this year.

56:37And this is on the network effects. I believe people are not fully understanding the importance of tokenization. I don't think they've fully understood the importance of stable coins for Ethereum and tokenization for Ethereum. And that just leads me to believe that by the end of this year, because Ethereum is the easiest asset, in my opinion, with inside the crypto world to be converted into a stock that people are familiar with, a discounted cash flow yield, all of that stuff. I just think Ethereum is probably going to outperform Bitcoin. And maybe Solana outperforms ethereum maybe sui up before i i i don't know i'm focused and ethereum is the only other one i own at this point what are some other scarce assets that you are invested in that are not bitcoin related well so currently there's a lot of scarce assets that i'm invested in um d ram so memory uh Optical fiber, optical semiconductors, power semiconductors, those are all scarce.

57:45But let's make it easier for people not just on the stock side. Just this week, I rotated out of most of my memory stocks and into silver. So I own silver. I own gold. I own copper. I own countries that mine those things. I own stocks that mine those things. So I'm a very big believer in scarce assets. So my videos are all focused on being long scarcity and short abundance. I don't believe in owning any software companies that are SaaS related. I think they will be disrupted by AI. I don't know any of the hyperscalers at this point. I'm fully focused on the companies that make assets that people can't get right now that are in shortage.

58:25They won't be in shortage forever, but they will be for the next few years. What about real estate? Should someone in his or her 20s or 30s, you have kids. should someone in his 20s or 30s put all their efforts into working hard to buy a house which our parents would be so proud of I would be extremely happy if my kids would never own a home um i am definitely my my oldest daughter has called me the world's oldest millennial because of things like this i just believe mobility is an option you always want to have and um i don't think it's ever been more important than it is today and i just mean that from the basis of you don't know what you're gonna think about you might visit a city and be like oh my gosh it's nice here.

59:32As you travel more, you want to have the options to do that. And work can be done really anywhere. And with artificial intelligence, I mean, I spend, my goal is to spend a third, a third, a third broken up between Maine, Utah, and Brooklyn, New York. I think everyone should have that kind of ability to do that. And you can, because there's lots of people that I see living in, that have moved to Europe. They live in a different country like every six months. And they just moved from Montenegro to France and then back. I see this all the time on X. So I would rather have people enjoy the ability to be young and travel when you have the chance rather than focus on planting yourself in one place and buying a house.

1:00:21And it's not because you want to live in three different places in a year that you need to own a house or flat in all these places, right? It's kind of back to what you said in the beginning regarding this kind of like status game or money, right? It feels today that the home is more of a status game than actually a smart investment. So a phrase that I said to someone who asked me for wisdom on how to stay young, the first thing that came out of my mouth was do new. and the reason that's important if you go to the same restaurant every week if you take the same commute in every week if you if you have a routine oriented job your brain is aging very very quickly when you do something new it actually makes your brain younger so i believe if you live in a place for too long and you take the same thing in and this is another thing i saw from my grandfather other.

1:01:24I just saw him aging and he did the same thing every day. He had the same food in the morning, the same food at lunchtime, something different at dinner, but it was one of five things that happened during the week. And he'd sit down, have his cookies, he'd put his feet up, he'd wet all on like clockwork. That's not a good way to go through life. There has to be variability. Things thrive when you stress them more. And our body shows that with workouts. You seem like you work out. Okay, if you do the same workout every day, it'll start having less impact on your body. You have to vary things up.

1:02:00This still goes against building companies, for example, or building a physique. Or, I mean, you need to do things with a certain routine to actually become better at those things. Well, when you say a routine... Habits. Well, so I have a smoothie every day. But inside that smoothie, the ingredients change. I mean, I have over 100 plants in my smoothie, over 100. And a lot of it's powders. It's dehydrated stuff, but it's a way for me to get a ton of antioxidants and a ton of things to make sure that I meet my daily needs. So I don't view that as necessarily a routine, but I vary up things, workouts too.

1:02:50I do three to four different types of workouts during the week. I never do the same routine. I use different people and I make sure I go to classes that are different. I do different things on the bike. I vary things up. So I think you're mistaken if you believe you have to do the same routine. I think where routines become important is to make sure that you don't forget things and that they're incorporated into getting them done. So I do breathe every day when I every day unless I have some a trip or something. But when I wake up in the morning, the first thing I do, first thing, chop some garlic, go sit on the couch and I meditate for 15 to 20 minutes.

1:03:32Then I go take the garlic and I go have a tonic with a bunch of things in it for the first thing of the day. those two things are routine for me every single day that i can do them but part of that is because i believe it is critical for my health and i need to shove it in every day but it's not something i would view as as a ocd routine oriented thing where i could be doing something new at five o 'clock in the morning instead thank you so much jordy for doing this we probably covered like five percent of the topics i thought we'd cover but it was amazing uh and means that we might have another one in the future that was awesome thank you it was great and very seldom do podcasts start with me on longevity so it felt good interesting and you could have gone lots of places i got a lot of things in my head to talk about so well we'll do a part two and we'll talk about a bunch of other things.

1:04:27Great. Sounds good. Nice. Nice. Well, I go, like if you start to talk about longevity, which I think is super interesting, obviously we're going to have to talk about that. Well, you care about it clearly. So. Yeah. I mean, I just care. Yeah. I'm curious and. Yeah. No, but longevity. And the HR thing, I just had it, but I never look at it. It's true. Yeah. And you should go look and see what the, how your age matches up with it and then realize that there are ways to raise it. And literally, I write a sub stack every week and it's on one, this one was on seasonal allergies this week. And this is because a person who reads it sent me something saying, hey, have you ever looked at HRV and seasonal allergies?

1:05:06I'm like, yes, allergies are not real. Like allergies are not a thing. And the person said, what do you mean? And I went, a peanut allergy is real, meaning your body, you could die from it. allergies to pollen are not real. They are your immune system overreacting to a toxin that enters your body, which means your immune system is screwed up. So if you want your immune system to be better, you should start realizing what allergies are. It's really just your body's, your immune system is overreacting. That's why when COVID happened, and I remember I was talking to my mother, and I'm like, my, you have to understand people are dying from their immune system overreacting the virus is gone before they die they don't have the virus when they die the virus is gone it's the symptoms that stay so the allergy or the virus it means you have poor health or not health that is good enough exactly to fight that external thing yeah and it's it's not so hrv measures balance your immune system everyone your body a pollen comes in your nose and your body goes, whoa, what is that?

1:06:15Mine does too. I just don't sneeze and cough and have watery eyes and all that stuff because my body looks at it. It starts to fight it and it goes, eh, that's fine. Let's go back. So I call it your immune system is drunk. It just doesn't know what to do. And the reason it doesn't know what to do is because you haven't given it all the nutrients to make it healthy. Your body gets destroyed by toxins. And that's what I studied to go. So really it's the soil. Your gut and your immune system is the soil and most of it's in your gut. So that is the reason why if you have allergies, you want to understand why you have them.

1:06:49And if you go to the doctor, they prick you and then they go, okay, you need to take this shot every year. And they just mess with people. It's actually horrendous because they're trying to get you to survive on clarity and everything else. As you probably know by now, I host some of the biggest names in Bitcoin and crypto on my podcast. but a lot of the best stuff never makes it on air. The Shift newsletter is where I share that raw behind the scene alpha, the insights, stories, and lessons straight from my guests that you won't hear anywhere else. If you want the real insight take on Bitcoin and crypto, join my newsletter, The Shift, in the description down below.