E31: Johanna Monange: Building a Perfume Empire

27:31It's also a level of maturity with the people you have around you. And no, no, I have nobody to delegate. I have a new marketing director, 20 years of Chanel. I'm lucky to have her because she didn't find a job in Singapore. It's a totally different relation. I need her. I'm always, what do you think? What should we do? She told me, you don't need to be in this school. I love it. So give me like 10 experts. I can pay a a high amount of money for them to execute their job. I would be more happy today. But I really get this blame. You are too involved and it's so wrong because you don't know the cost.

28:09You have to pay if you don't get involved. Yeah, people don't realize the full picture and how important all these little things that add up will basically result in something being successful or not. They don't realize it's the sum of all these small details that make the thing working. much better. So you said you were working for big companies before you were earning something like 1 million per year. As your previous employer, you had three kids at home. So pretty much living a very comfortable life. I was on the high because I want a high career also. So, you know, in the corporate world, as a woman, you need to do it.

28:47I was working hard, but I never had this stress, this level of emotion. So the question is, what made you live this amazing career and the comfort that comes with it to start a company? Because like you, I saw a lot of weakness in the perfume industry. I'm really an expert. I have worked with all the best brands. I have developed so many perfumes. I have worked with so many types of people. And I see the consumer coming to me, Joanna, my perfume doesn't last. Everything smells the same. I don't know how to choose. I go to Sephora. And even me, I go to Sephora and I'm depressed. And every year I was like creating a hundred of perfumes.

29:28I was, you know, they ask us to do all these consumer tests to do one fits whole. But, oh, you need to please the French, the German, the American. Now the Chinese, now the Arab. It's impossible. So you do me too. So I wasn't enjoying my work anymore. I love creation. That's my passion. And I was even using AI. Can you imagine to do formula that can please everybody? So the AI part was a fun part, but as soon as I mastered it, I was bored. So for me, I lost my passion. I lost my soul. That was the reason I come into this industry. And as I told you, I had always this idea to become an entrepreneur.

30:07It was inside me. And it's why it took me seven years to make the decision. And then I have a fantastic encounter with a coach. I was always asking training because I love to learn as I explained to you and I met this guy that pointed out you know you're not happy in IFF because you're not doing what you wish to do so he really pushed me this guy I'm really thankful sometimes I hate him but yeah he did a lot of work on me it took a year and imagine if Do you think you'd have started a company without meeting the right person? What's needed to take the leap? especially when you're in such a comfortable career and set up.

30:49You know it's like the we say the drop that makes the glass go over. So you are putting all your drops together and when the glass is full and you just leave. Yeah, no, no, I don't think it's one thing. Again, it's your level of motivation and people help you, of course. Let's talk about the real stuff now. Okay. Which is it can be very lonely to be at the top, which a lot of people don't realize. They think, oh, this person is an entrepreneur, very inspiring, very strong, et cetera. But like, obviously you need to show the example to like all the stakeholders, employees, everyone that you're strong, but, and you, you need to be strong to be an entrepreneur, but you take all the responsibilities on your shoulders and even people who support you and work with you will actually never really get you, except if they're building businesses themselves.

31:43so how do you deal with with this you deal with it this is your reality and you even as I was explaining for me I needed to cut the social part because your day is 20 hours so how you're going to make the most of it it's not having a chit chat with your friends or going to the polo club you need to be focused so you isolate yourself I think and you whatever you do There is a purpose. But I think as an entrepreneur, we're quite lonely and strong characters. So for me, that wasn't the hardest things. I still love to go out. But no, you're very lonely. And it's true when you have things that hit you.

32:29I have the chance I can share with my husband. I have a few people with whom I can share. but sometimes you, I think, as you say, you need emotional support with people who love you and know you are doing your best. And especially when Ted you, you have done everything you can and you need to let it go. And your employee will never understand you, as you say, they don't have your stress. So don't expect anything from them also because they are not paid for that, to be honest. Yeah, don't expect them to work as hard as you, obviously. and also people always think my boss, I mean, this is my boss.

33:10And what I don't realize is basically each of your clients and each of your employees are your boss because if you don't get the cash in, if you don't get the investment, if you don't get the clients to not only buy the product, but pay, which is another thing, the cash flow, like people will leave. So like, actually the more people you have on board, the more you are, you're not the boss. Like you are the, everybody's your boss except you. And people don't really realize that. They don't realize it. Just like there's the money at the end of the month. And if the salary is not there one day, they're like, what the fuck is happening with this company?

33:44And I don't know. So a big mistake I did when they, I was quite successful raising money because I have a great idea. My project is great. People see developing. But as soon as employees see the cash coming, they think it's a big party, guys. And I think it has been the mistake of a lot of money coming in. Okay, let's go crazy. And no, a penny is still a penny for me. And they need to understand that. And I had, when I had my Siri, hey, I engage a general manager. He was spending like crazy. And I have been very reasonable. And it's why people trust me to come back and put more money in my company.

34:21But if you start to burn and you want to be a bit comfortable, you know, but no, you can't. whatever you raise your first million your first three million your first ten million you need to be extremely cautious with money and it's one of my mantra you don't tell to the people how much money you have in the bank account it reminds me something in our first company I hired our first employee so we're three co-founders and then we hired our first employee and the co-founders were really paying ourselves almost I mean like not a great salary so like basically the first employee was paid three times more which was like a pretty decent salary for his experience, etc.

34:57So he was there like, and I mean, basically one day he sold the bank account because we had good money on the bank account, but like we were just very careful. And the reaction of this person seeing like, ah, you have that much money, therefore I should be paying more and all that stuff. And you're just there like, man, like we haven't paid each other for the first entire year. Second, you were paying each other like peanuts. And now we're paying each other a bit more than peanuts. You're being paid three, four times more than us. and the reaction of the person is very interesting. It's very interesting.

35:28Because they don't understand you get money to develop, not to... They think it's your money in your pocket, but it's not. It's not. And if you're a respectful entrepreneur, you're super careful because it's not your money. And I have tremendous respect for my investor. So yeah, I think my advice, never show your bank account except to your financial director. Make sure your financial director doesn't speak about it. And that's a very important position. And people need to feel we need to grow. We need to be very careful. And again, if they saw you also burning money, you don't send the right message because a startup needs to be very careful.

36:07You always fragile, whatever the size you are. Because as I tell you, big mistake costs a lot of money. The more you grow, the more you need to be careful. How do you avoid bringing home or into your personal relationships all your business-related anxieties? You don't avoid. Is it even possible? You don't avoid. You bring it home and you hope your home is going to help you, that they have to take it in their face. So it's why, again, I say it, make sure you have a strong environment around you to absorb. And sometimes, you know, I love animals and you just take your cat or your rabbit and your animal calm me because they don't speak.

36:48But of course, you're going to bring back your, You cannot close the door. I told you it's impossible. And sometimes everybody's sleeping. I go downstairs, you cry and you go back and you need to, you don't even want to show to your family you are searching. I remember my first board meeting, the company was not taking off. And I had like, it's horrible. Nobody can understand. And you feel that it's even physical what you feel, the pressure. It's something indescriptible. And I never had it in the corporate world. And I was thinking I was working like a dog, but it's nothing. So I'll start with first with my story.

37:27So then you maybe you feel better about it. Okay. But you talk about crying. I remember our first company, we were three co-founders and we had some co-founders issue pretty quick early on. Like one of the guys was really good in terms of how technical he was, but he was a terrible team player. So he would basically do everything on his side to then come and try to get more shares, justify more shares by the work I was doing. So after a few months, we realized we need to fire him. So I had to go and fire him. And I remember being there like just with the two other co-founders and being there and like, just like crying, which was, I was like, this is so ridiculous.

38:03It's the last thing I ever thought would happen by building a company, you know. And yet I'm here like firing the dude after three or four months and crying like a baby. And I was 23 or 24. So have you, I mean, you said before, like going downstairs, crying, like, have you ever felt like you were close to totally burning out or abandoned? Burnout, yes. More by exhaustion, because when you don't sleep, everything amplifies. I know you have feedback, you know, it's like when you're in sleep depression. And I think it had an impact the way I was talking to people, because everything becomes big. And you don't realize.

38:43Because you are in a parallel world and you want to continue and you sleep less. And I was taking some pills, you know, to sleep less and pills to sleep fast. And so this is where you need to be careful when your body is cracking. This is my advice for me. Always keep this minimum of healthy life to protect yourself. What can an entrepreneur's relatives do to support him or her the best when going through the startup rollercoaster? So what do you think is the best reaction? You know, for example, someone is very sad, nothing to do with entrepreneurship. Someone is very sad. The only thing they'll tell you, the only thing they ask is just being listened.

39:34You don't even need to say anything. So what should Relative do to best support an entrepreneur that is going through this crazy roller coaster? For me, giving you perspective, because you are in your things and you see only that and you say, OK, what do we have? OK, and then they say, worst, worst case. OK, you lost your startup. You go back to work. You know what you know. So, OK, just try. And again, when you know you have built a career and you have expertise and you build a startup and it failed, then you can try another one. So I think giving you a perspective, this is not the end of the world and you still have healthy kids.

40:17We have enough to survive to eat every day. So I think, yeah, listening and giving you advice. I mean, it's not only relative. Sometimes it could be people who are really outside of your industry. And I had some very interesting conversation with people who are still in the corporate. And they tell me, yeah, we do that, do that. And so I think it's reflecting with others that would give you perspective. There is another world outside of your company. But the best advice that the best people you should find after when you are really stuck. So let's get back to the founding of Maison. So you have an idea.

40:55You will disrupt the perfume world, but you can't do it alone. I will bring back creativity in the perfume world that I was really missing. Disrupt is a strong because I'm not going to change a$55 billion company, which is led by L 'Oreal and LVMH. I mean, these guys are here for a long time and they've been empire and I have tremendous respect for that. But they are missing something today that I want to bring back and I will be happy to share with them. I'm not here to destroy them. I'm just happy to show them a new light that people have different needs today. Because when you are in a monopoly, as you say, you're in your comfort zone, you don't recreate new things.

41:35And you remember we discussed about the BlackBerry. We all love BlackBerry and then the iPhone commerce. And I want my dashboard, my board. And then you learn. And if today I take your iPhone for something new, you're not going to be happy. So I think we are using this. And I saw that we can do something better. So, yeah, I mean, I'm here to bring back what we're missing because we are all passionate in the industry. We want to push the boundary, to create new scent. I want to create something for you that really fits your personality, where you are. And you remember I told you this sentence, we remember 35 % of what we smell, 5 % of what we see, 2 % of what we hear.

42:15And people underestimate the power of this sense because you don't see, you're going to touch it. and it's not your first priority. Your first priority is your dress, your makeup, your hair. But I told you if you date a girl, she's beautiful. Oh, the smell. The smell isn't there. Ten years later, you smell the perfume. You're like, oh my God. So I think for me, it's also a question of education. And I think also what the industry has done because they're in a monopoly. You know, it's a bit like in the communism. You have no interest to educate people because you want to follow your way of thinking.

42:50So now I'm reeducating people to think, you know, why you're able to cook your meal and to choose your ingredient and you want to cook a light meal or you want to do something super heavy, fondue. But the same in perfumery. I can give you, I can first help you to understand what you like and what you don't like because when you buy your perfume, it's ready-made and you want to look like Julia Robert buying this perfume, but there is vanilla that you hate and you buy it because someone told you. It's like, you know, when someone forced you to buy your dress and you bring it home and it doesn't fit you, you never wear it.

43:22So first I want, because it's quite an investment. A perfume is something you're going to keep for three, six months. You're sending a message about yourself. So be sure to choose something you like and to choose the right message. Because I remember I had a lady in my office and she was wearing Angel on the morning at eight o 'clock. It was horrible for the whole office. and don't wear sexy, super overpowering perfume when you go to the office for your colleague. You want to go dancing in C 'est la Vie, be bold, but also educating people about what ingredient is going to provoke, you know, around you.

44:01So this is also the purpose because we're really losing education. And each time I talk about perfume, I see people looking at me, asking questions. So there is a lack of education in this industry that I want to bring back because in French, in France, we say the violets pour salons, or we say the violets grow in the shadow. So that means it's a grass where it's a center that is the less you tell about your knowledge, the more you will last. But we saw today it's completely different. We are in a sharing economy. It's very open mind. Absolutely. So that the first thing I did, I put all my knowledge online and I did podcasts like you.

44:38You can find what is in your formula. So this one really is eating and shaking my industry because when you buy your perfume and it's always rose, how much rose do you have exactly? They tell you, you have aqua, alcohol and perfume, but what is in your perfume? So this is all these funny things that really interest me and that interest people that I'm bringing with Maison. So you spotted this opportunity, but obviously you cannot do it alone in the beginning. So, and because as we say, faster alone, further together. So how do you build a team that will help you achieve your goals when in the beginning, the only thing you have to motivate them is an idea?

45:24So it's, as we say, it's easy to motivate people to follow you. And especially, you know, when you start, you attract a lot of young people. We don't need a lot of money. They're happy to be in a startup. It's how you keep them and how they fit what you need, because you have a lot of blind spot you remember i told you you are an expert in perfume but for me building the perfume was easy but how to sell them in retail how to build a digital platform when you do personalization you know i cannot take one of the ready websites so i had to build everything and then how you advertise how you do your seo your sma new paid ad how you do logistic how you're going to scale up how you open new country how you get the legal part about what you're doing you start to mix so So all these blind spots, you have no idea at the beginning who you're going to recruit.

46:11So I think it's more down the road. And also you don't have the skills. So you're not able to judge the person who you're going to hire. So what do you do? Do you go with your friends? What do you do? No, but you do a lot of mistakes. You hire people. We sell them ourselves. And then I think one important thing is why I want to do everything in my company. And I need to let it go because I understand what I need. and where I will never, as I say, the digital, I'm not a digital native. I have learned tons of things, but I would love to just study that and you can learn everything on internet, as say Elon Musk, but I don't have time to spend five hours on podcasts.

46:48But I know what I need and I know how to recognize someone which is passionate about their expertise. So I'm much better in recruitment now and you do less mistakes because it costs you tons of stress and tons of money. So recruitment, I think in every company is so key. So we talk about the HR position, which is very important. Because even the story of your friend, when you had to lay out your friend because you feel the problem, if you had an HR, she will have start to address the problem. You should be, you know, some warning. So they know you know, and they're not at ease with what they're doing.

47:24They know when what he was doing was not the right thing and you have to wait the explosion and you end up badly. but when you have an HR, it starts to be addressed and when you open the door, they expect it. So it's less painful. So you're building a company, you're growing but leading a team of 10 people requires, I mean, let's say building a team of 50 or 100 people requires different skills than leading a team of 10 people which means that obviously you have to hire people but you have to fire them because your company is growing and someone who was doing a great job in a smaller company is not going to be able to do the same great job in a bigger company because it requires different skills, which a lot of people don't understand.

48:11A lot of people think, especially co-founders is the same. Co-founder could be amazing to start, but at some point, you're not fit for the job anymore. And so how is the crazy employee hiring and firing linked to the different phases of a startup. And maybe you can explain to people why it's normal that in most startups you have what we call a high employee turnover, which is a lot of firing and hiring. And I heard that, oh, you have such a high turnover. I'm like, no, because I still have people who are still here. And I would say perhaps is to let them go instead of firing because if, as I say, you have been a system that sends warning, you are not doing that.

48:53And they realize I'm not fit for this company anymore. I have learned a lot. So I have people who have left where I was super happy. I've learned a lot. And they want to do something else. And I can understand because the level of stress you have, they don't want to go with you forever. And they want to go back to a normal life. And a lot of people who have worked at Maison, they find an amazing job after because they can show what they have built from scratch. So it's the best CV you can have being in a startup. you have suffered, but you say, hey, I did. Hey, I survived two or three years there.

49:25Yeah, and I was a creative director and I've built this campaign. This is me, you know, with no money, you know, and so this is amazing. And yes, you have people we don't understand and then it's clash, of course. But for me, leading a company of 10, 100 people is the same for me. It's how you surround yourself with experts and they have the right motivation, they have the right goal. But if you have the level of expertise you need, it's the same to pilot 100 people, 1 ,000 people. So for me, it's not a challenge for me to manage four or five people or 100 people. And I've seen that in the corporate because I've been in small entity, big entity.

50:07So I'm not afraid of that, I would say. You're not afraid, but still, there is so much happening, hiring, letting people go. which goes I mean you need to not have a problem with kind of conflicts and people not liking you which is because because that's what it is to be an entrepreneur so and you even mentioned that you had sometimes some family members of staff that you let go that would come to your place on a Saturday afternoon which is pretty crazy so how do you detach yourself mentally from all the this hiring firing that happens I just started to detach because I hire HR again I tell you she's a protection you and she will give an objective image because it's so emotionally connected when you have hired the people you have developed the business with them you are super but when it's a proper recruitment with many people and there is kpi were in place and they have to feel the kpi and if not then you give the first warning then i think it's the way to go and i think i have found my way today so it's it's it's less emotional and people will still attack you but if you have done the proper away, you have a dress and then they can attack and you win and you continue.

51:17So I'm much more relaxed now. We are less relaxed when I need to hire someone. And sometimes you are in a hurry because you need to fill the position. As a startup, you know what is it when you grow really fast. I need a digital manager, you know, and you take the guy and he's so-so. And then, okay, so you start to look for another one. And because recruiting takes a lot of time, a lot of interview, it's the time you don't put in your development. So I'm more worried about recruiting the right people than letting the people that doesn't fit the structure, I would say. Because again, it's good for them.

51:54They have learned things and they can move to something else. And I think a startup is a fantastic way to learn for anyone. Nice. Let's talk about raising money and responsibilities. So you raised, I believe, about 7 million since the beginning. How do you go about raising money for a startup? not seven million in one. So I did a few rounds. I think the first one is the most difficult one because you just have an idea and your passion. And like you, people promise and the last minute they revoke. And it's really a roller coaster. The fundraising is super interesting. You have to put your ego on the side.

52:37But yeah, for me, the first one was the most difficult one. And after I had the chance to meet people from the industry that saw the potential of the idea and they were quite rich. So I think it's important also to take, especially when you're really at the beginning, to take money from people. If you fail, it's not going to change their life. You need to be very careful with that. And they know what they're putting their foot into. And then you go down the road, you're going to start to have people who are going to require a lot from you. because if they put money, they want the return on investment.

53:12But when it's a business angel, you know that out of 10 startups, you will have one who work. And one of my first investors was the CEO of Webbedia in France. And I was a bit disappointed because he's quite a rich guy, well achieved. And I thought he's going to put like 100, 200K and last minute he gave me 50K. And he told me two years after, he invited me to take a cup of champagne and say, you are the only startup I invest this year, but I'm still alive. Still alive. So he was like really impressed. And he told me, I put on you because of your personality. I didn't really understand anything about perfumery, but I think a lot of business angels, they see like the founder is so important.

53:55And I think they need to see also you have something to lose. So when you tell them you're quitting your job, you're very well paid, you have a family. I put also my own money. and I had another entrepreneur friend and I was trying to do a bit of business with him and he said, Joanna, as long as you have nothing to lose you will be never successful in entrepreneurship. So when you are in the emptiness and you have no more job and you need to make it work, whatever it takes. So that's really my advice for the people don't raise money and think it's easy people will invest on you on the first run if you really have something to lose and you're on board with them because they are taking a huge risk.

54:40Even if they're rich and you would discover like the richer they are, the more greedy they are. Sorry about that. That's where they got rich. Exactly. That's where they stay rich. I swear, I said, I would never like that. One day I have the chance to be very comfortable. I mean, you need to let it go. And one time money doesn't make you happy. No money doesn't make you happy, but also money is not the key. It helps in a lot of things. for me money is freedom so money buy you the freedom to do what you want to do so so that's very important so so the more you go down the run the more professional you need to be it's all about how you but you know even with the figure you can make the figure in a way we were discussing that yesterday it looked great and so i think you need to be very authentic and discuss also your problem with your investor this is my challenge today this is how i'm I'm trying to fix it.

55:32And if they see down the road, you deliver what you promise and you don't over promise, they will continue to follow you, whatever. Because if you continue to develop, not at the space you were planning to, but there is a reason why, especially my business model is very complex because it's a mix of tech, of perfumery, retail, digital. And it takes time to scale up. And I need to reinforce my base to be able to scale. Because if you scale up too fast, you can collapse. So I think they understand today I want to slow down. I want to duplicate my model because it's not because you have done a market super successful, but the next market is going to be successful that I discover also.

56:14I say, oh, I have a great receiver in Singapore. So now let's go to Korea. And you're in Korea. It's like, wow, it's another animal. And then you go to Middle East. And so it's very difficult also to scale up. And sometimes you really need to strengthen your core model to be able to scale up. And your entrepreneur need to understand why you do that. And when you don't deliver like 300 % growth, there is a reason and they need to follow you. So keep a very honest line with your entrepreneur. Don't let them step into your business. They're here as advisor to open door for you, to distress you when they can.

56:52It's like we were discussing who can help you reflect you. I think if you have good entrepreneur, they should be able to push you, but also to give you reflection, look at what you have achieved. And so finding good investor is important. And sometimes you cannot be picky because you really need the money. Yeah, absolutely. So how do you choose the investors if you have the luxury to do so? The blind spot, again, they're going to bring things that you don't know. So how do you know they're going to be able to bring things? I have an example, for example, for again, one of our business, the only time we actually raised money, we didn't need the money but there was this then don't raise if you don't need money don't raise we had this client that we're basically saying since two years oh we love what you're doing come to another country come there we're gonna invest in your in your company there and we're gonna give you our network etc and then it just ended up after two years of like going to to see their offices and it was growing growing i was like i almost had some fomo and i was like okay we need to do that.

57:54So we do it, but like they never really delivered. So how do you know in advance how much they can? You never know in advance, but you see how people are connected, what are their position, in which industry, which company. I think it's like when you recruit, you know, you're going to do a few mistakes, but investor, you know who is coming into your company and you will do many meetings with them. You will see how, you know, the first meeting is always great. Everybody shake hands and then you see them, they're a bit more stressed, they treat you badly, they don't answer to you. I mean, it takes time to raise money for a good reason because it's a dating and then you get a fiancé and then you're married and then sometimes you divorce and it's like a couple, you know, you're going to go through up and down.

58:43And so, yeah, the relation with your investor is very important and it's why it's important to choose your investor, but sometimes you don't always choose and you have to go with it because money is le nerde guerre, as we say in French, is your blood. So if you don't have money, you cannot develop your company. So you are basically, as you say, like sometimes you need the money or often you need the money and then there's basically this trade-off, which is I need the money versus I want to have the best investors on board, but in the ideal world, in the ideal world, that would happen, but in the real world, the real world is not ideal.

59:21So what are the risks, the biggest risk when you choose your investors? What are all the ways that as an entrepreneur, again, first time you raise money, you don't really know? No. What are all the ways you can get screwed by your investors? And I'm thinking about the Steve Jobs story, you know, where he was basically kicked out of his own Apple company at some point. Yeah, it's extreme caricature where his company becomes so big and varies so much money. And I'd say for me, I will avoid the big funds first because this is not their money. And whatever they lose or they win, they will make money.

1:00:01So again, if you take really the money from the people, I prefer to have this kind of investor. And then you have family office that are really responsible. But the big fund, you know, when you go there, you lose the control. And so be really sure you need the money and you have an exit plan because you're losing your soul. If you go big and you really need this big fund. And I think also down the road, the more you develop, the more you know what you need. For me, my next fundraising, I know exactly what type of investor and I'm going to contact them. And they're going to be interesting for the right reason.

1:00:35So don't talk to people that are not fit to you. It's your choice also, because at the end of the day, a fundraising is a marathon. And so you need, you have also little time because you need to continue to run your company, as you know. and investors all around the world. So if you do a meeting in London and then in Asia, and then you need to go to the US, you're going to exhaust yourself. So really put your target and you put 10 and you say, I need like two of them. And you're going to do the, and perhaps with the different meeting you will have, people will tell you your weakness while you are not investing.

1:01:11So you can correct your speech. So, you know, you have also the training. And then when you're going to talk to the really important one you want, you know all the questions because they all have the same kind of question at the end of the day. Especially when you go to this level where you need 10 million or another level of amount, they all have the same kind of KPI and worried about what you're going to deliver and what would be the exit with them. So you prepare your fundraising. Don't wait the last minute or so to be in a hurry because they will smell it. Yeah, absolutely. So this is, again, like a company, something you prepare, you anticipate and you bid yourself.

1:01:49Lead, don't. Don't be led for fundraising. That's my advice. What's the pressure and level of responsibility that comes towards investors when you raise a lot of money? It's like you are responsible of this money. You are responsible to make the right usage of it. Because even if these people are rich, they have probably spent a life to get rich. So you need to, and I don't like to say, oh, he's rich, but he probably sweat tears to become rich. even if Steve's job come and invest in my company, it didn't become Steve's job by chance. So you have to have tremendous respect because it's a whiteboard when they come at your company.

1:02:29They have no idea what is the real reality because you always want to show your best side. So no, I have tremendous respect. And as you say, when the money is on the bank account, don't make a big party on it. And for me, as soon as the money, I don't know if you had this feeling, you should be released because, okay, you can continue but the pressure you have it's the opposite effect for me the more you raise the more pressure you have because you have big expectation and they put big trust in you because it's that means wow they consider me they trust me at this level I need to deliver absolutely so investors I mean depending which kind of investor you deal with but investors like or want to see what we talked a bit about before and even yesterday, these nice projections, you know?

1:03:21So you have the projection of the investors, but then you have the reality of the business. So can you give maybe some examples so people really understand the disconnect or disconnection between the kind of investors predictable framework, you know, with nice lines and charts. So the investors are going to make the decision based on that and then the actual you might say oh now we raise this money we show these nice projections or charts or whatever but oh fuck now we actually need to do it and deliver in this very unpredictable world of the entrepreneur that is basically in the trenches fighting for its life every day so like can you tell us can you tell us about that again you need to be reasonable in your projection, you need to show up, but don't do it too much because as you say, if you know you're not able to deliver and I have a partner who wants to pump it up the figure, I disagree because I know what I...

1:04:24Don't help them know. Pump up the figures to get more money. Exactly. And again, it takes six months at least to raise money. So if you put like a projection like that and they see you are not, then you're going to disappoint them and it can even kill the deal. So be very reasonable. You can put an optimist scenario. And so for me, I was supposed to boom in China starting last of any year. And you know what happened in China. So we had to downsize the figure and it's okay. You know, you explain it's China. I cannot open behind there. So as long as you explain, but I will never put a promise on the table.

1:05:02I don't feel I'm able to deliver. So as long as you align with your goods and you know it's going to be hard, but you can do it and sometimes also you have the downsides but you have positive things you didn't expect last year i get a huge business i told you with ferrari we won a contract we were not supposed to where they wants to dispose the scent of each car they sell in asia and it was a big check and i never put it in my bp and but i never thought that china is going to be locked down for three months where i was supposed to have a boutique open last december and so so and it's what what is difficult is to predict what is really going to happen.

1:05:41But I think don't, inside of you, you know how fast you can. For me, if I promise I'm going to triple my company, I'm not able to do it. The time to recruit the people to have the impossible. So at the beginning, it's easy to double you, one million, two million. But now from five million to 10 million, it's another company. So you need to be super reasonable. And honestly, if you're an honest entrepreneur, you know what you can deliver. and especially when you when you do acquisition that's another strategy you're going to buy sales but I don't do that because my model is unique and and so I for me it's not a problem to be honest and and you're going to have some difference but as long as you can explain your investor will follow you and you will attract more investors because as you say your size changed and you need different type of investor so be honest you can sleep at night basically yeah also For everything in life.

1:06:36Yeah. What makes your day? What makes my day? What makes you happy? When you have opened a new market. Yesterday, we just got an email at 11. You know, I wanted to sleep early because I know tonight we're going to... And okay, I look at my email and 11.30 were accepted in Changi Airport. It's a huge achievement to enter in UT3 and Terminal 1, which is, you know, only like the best, best brown gate there. so that was a fantastic news so I was I sleep happy yesterday night but perhaps tonight I open my computer after I will have a and then there is some shit come here so so yeah the good news what makes you happy or to see someone happy that's you see someone has achieved something they're like super when I see my people laughing and so if we love too much I start to be stressed because I say okay they are not working so But yeah, when we have a burst of, oh, when you manage to crack the product you are developing, you know, for a month and the prototype, we're super excited.

1:07:41When the prototype arrives, you know, you develop a new candle and you know the work to develop a bottle of perfume with the glass, the pump, the design. And we are so excited when all the samples arrive, we touch it. So again, the creative part, but it makes my day. and yesterday night I went to the boutique and I had a very important meeting with an investor and it was 8.30 and the last customer on there and she was, you know, an old woman and I saw she was talking to my staff and after my meeting I went to her and said, how can I help you? And she said, she took an old bottle that was two years old and said, I want to refeed, but I don't remember which scent I have mixed.

1:08:24I said, don't worry, man. And by nose I just recognized what is inside and I saw she had spark in her eyes and she discovered I was a founder and she told me about it. It was a super encounter, you know, and it made my evening yesterday night just meeting this lady who was one of my first customers coming back and she said, it's so great. I said, why it took you two years to use your perfume? Because she said, I only use it for special occasion because it's my perfume. I was like, wow, this is good. What's your biggest life learning? Always learn. you never arrived when you understand that and you will be happy because you have always something to develop I think the people we say oh I want to be on retirement do nothing this is the last thing I expect I always want to but choose things that I like to do but yeah my biggest learning is we are a student of life and it's forever and I know some people who are 70, 80 one of our images is 70 years old and he's so happy to be active.

1:09:27He said, I'm so happy to be with your company. And he brings you a kind of advice that nobody can bring you because when you're 70 years old, you have been through to so many things. And he would probably be unhappy to not do anything. Yeah, for me, impossible. So this one, I've been struggling pretty much all my entrepreneurship career with this one, which is you're building a business is very hard. You have big goals. You're struggling. Do you deserve the little pleasures or guilty pleasures or like all your friends? Or do I have to reach my goals to allow myself to enjoy? So basically, I had that and we talked about that also yesterday.

1:10:23you know you're building the company you're maybe not making money yet so it's very difficult but it's going to take a lot of time it's a process but and you work until very late often it's not even useful what you're doing which is there i need to be in the office i need to be all doing all that stuff because i would feel bad not doing it because it's not working yet i don't deserve to go for this lunch or dinner with my friends i don't deserve to go party because i haven't reached my goal. I hear that, of course. So how, so how should people building businesses think about that? Probably, it's probably not healthy.

1:10:56Yet, we all do it. I think it's healthy because if you stop to, and when I discover, now I keep what, I try to keep my Saturday because before I was in, even in retail on Saturday was the time I can go and talk to the customer. So I start not to touch an email, to do my sport, to just watch a movie, years like things where I don't need my brain and and the day after I'm super powerful like so many ideas so but I feel like shit honestly when I said I didn't do that and so but now I have done it I'm because I saw I'm very productive the day after so allow you some break but I think until you haven't achieved your goal or and I know my goal I don't think I will be super fulfilled.

1:11:45You have little moment of joy that I explained but you if you are a real entrepreneur very difficult. So hyper focus and the little pleasures or whatever is for another moment. I cannot whether you deserve it you'll allow yourself. I'm surprised I thought it was a woman thinks that you absolutely the same. Absolutely. Absolutely terrible. Interesting. Thanks for. What's the best advice you've ever been given? it's an impossible question. You have tons of advice in your... No, one of the recent advice, because advice are different, different moment of your life, and it was coming from someone really powerful in a big group, I won't quote, and he said, we are all fragile and we can always fail, whatever you are, and I have it.

1:12:35So yeah, you never arrive, never be chill. I think, yeah, you are all very fragile. It's, yeah, look at what happened a few years ago. Like the economy was booming. I mean, you know that in crypto money and from a day on over one, you're nothing. And you were a millionaire a year ago. So, and yeah, today I'm very trained. So always be, okay, what could happen? Be ready. You know, it's with the story of Kodak, you know, was number one. And they didn't see so. my biggest advice see the weak signal don't have always the big things okay China is opening I go there but why are the weak signals happening somewhere else how can I get screwed how will I get screwed in the future because it's going to happen yeah you just focus on China from one way or another shit will happen so I think the fragility of life and just by itself you know it's also in business it's also in family it's also in friendship it's also in business So we are fragile human beings and be conscious about that.

1:13:42It helps you to go through the tough thing. What's something that you believe in that most people would not agree with? I think a lot of people don't believe me when I say you need to work like a dog if you want to succeed. I haven't met people who tell me, you know, I was lucky or whatever. They would say, look or work smart. You don't need to work that hard. I'm super smart. So you need to work very hard and work very smart. Yeah, but I tell that to the young generation, but we know they say, no, it's useless to work a lot. You need your balance of life. I mean, I'm talking for entrepreneur.

1:14:24If you can't have a perfect balance this life, you choose to be an entrepreneur. But I see in the eyes of people, people don't believe me. That's why entrepreneurship is not made for everyone. Exactly. Yeah. if there was a summary or takeaway that people should remember from today what would it be? Entrepreneurship is not made for everyone No but so I have a dream it's very important and but have the you make your dream happening and nothing can make it for you and it's the learning is also the little step or don't you need the big vision but every little step is very important and don't be too greedy and say, I'm going to be big very easily.

1:15:10It takes a lot of small steps. So I think everybody knows this advice, but in the entrepreneurship, it's very important. Yeah. One way to formulate it is basically saying micro speed, macro patience. So every day you have to, in the micro, you have to work super hard, work super hard, work super hard. And in the micro, you need to stay patient because things will happen, but much slower than what you think, despite working super hard. Agree, agree. But really my advice is nobody can make your dream happen except you and the team, of course, around you. But it's in you. And it's an advice I discovered recently.

1:15:57Believe into it because you will attract the right vibes. I think it's something a bit spiritual. The power of your mind. You know, we talk a lot about something we cannot qualify, which if you think positive, you attract positivity. If you think negative, you... So I really believe in that. And it's hard because sometimes you're really down and you say, okay. So, and picture yourself. Picture yourself. Sometimes, you know, I do my market visit and I enter in diptyque and I'm so jealous because the boutique is exactly what I want. And I say, one day, one person will enter my boutique and they say, wow, the design of this boutique is amazing.

1:16:35So, and each time I do the, I look at my computer and say, one day we'll be like you, you know, you make fun of me. I'm fighting to be next to you, but that's really my dream. And each time, you know, I feel a bit down because I see the step I need to do to be at the level of a Dior, a Diptyque or whatever. but remember we talk about brand very much like Benefit Makeup Forever they were three four million dollar me to give their billion dollar brand so if the two sisters of Benefit were able to do it why not me you know but I'm sure so I think project yourself see yourself and it's really attract what you want people underestimate the power of the mind everything starts in the mind and then obviously as you said sometimes you're very down or you have all these people who don't believe in you or who even like probably like to watch you fail or whatever but like you don't care because if you have this thing in your mind where you're like convinced like you're basically almost irrationally convinced that you're able to make something happen then it's going to happen sooner or later.

1:17:45And you know we have a very famous sentence in French you know when the dog bark you just pass your way because they are like under it. Because you know, sometimes you go and the dog by you and you're like afraid. No, people who are aggressive to you just pass it and stay focused and align with yourself. For me, it's very important advice and don't get disturbed by people who are negative. You need to clean that in your life. It's super important. Absolutely. Thank you so much for your time, Joanna. Thank you for inviting me. Where can the audience find you and connect with you? Sorry? Where can the audience find you and connect with you?

1:18:22at Maison21G in my boutique. In the store on Saturday afternoon. I mean, and please connect with me. You can send me an email at joanna at Maison21G.com if you have something interesting to share and you have questions. I'm always open to exchange with other entrepreneurs. So yeah, you... Even at 10 p.m.? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Awesome. And I have a team around me. So we are in Singapore, in Korea, in China, in Middle East. So if you ask about me, and there is a lot of people, we come in, where is Joanna? They may be expected because there was so much on the field at the beginning and it should stay.

1:19:04But they leave a message and I will get your message. So my team is my extension, as I explained to you. So don't hesitate to leave a message in my boutique or on the website. I will get it. I still look at every comment and everything. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you everyone for listening and watching. Please smash the like button and give us your feedback and I'll see you all in the next episode. Thank you.