E34: Crash, Rise, Conquer: from 20k in debt to Body Building World Champion - Nicolas Iong Lee

0:29I always find a way to eat healthy. I completely crashed my car. I crashed the car in France. I was working every month as a student to try to pay as much as I can, but I couldn't pay the full monthly bills. Someone had one million followers. You have maybe 100 ,000 people who watch his story every day. You have maybe just 1 % of these who consume his product. It's a lot of money. And it's more than what a doctor can make, what an injury can make by just being influencer. The problem was that my parents broke up when I was two years old. Superconsciously, this broke up and the fact that I didn't grow up with my mom impacted me a lot, you know.

0:59I want to give the best life to my kids. I don't want my kids to go through the same way I went when I was a kid. I just want to make them happy and have them everything they want, you know. Our guest today is Nicolas Yongli. Nicolas, you are not only a dear friend, but you're also a professional athlete, two-time Europe champion and one-time world champion in bodybuilding. Exactly, yeah. And even more important for the audience, you were a normal dude who followed his passion, work super hard never let go and you're basically living what most people would call the dream you moved from your little swiss town a few years ago to the bali paradise nico this is a long overdue man yes welcome everybody thank you for having me here so i love to start each episode with some background about our guests so let's start with um this uh car accident that you had yeah we go straight to the point okay so yeah that's that was the the key point uh i would say that's when my life turned really bad when i was a student and i had my first car without full insurance and everything and i just i was very unlucky and i had a very bad car crash so i completely crashed my car i crashed the car in front and i had to pay the whole things so i was not covered fully so i started my life as a student with a with a pretty huge debt i mean a debt of twenty thousand dollars how old were you back then uh i was 19 19 so i was 19 uh without any incomes a student and i started my life with this car crash and started with twenty thousand dollars debt so yeah that was a tough moment because you know when you cannot pay a bill like this and you take a loan to the bank and you have to you know then after you have to to pay this loan to the bank but you have no incomes and this loan always increases it's just like uh i don't know how to say this in english but um it just gets worse and worse basically yeah it's get worse and worse it's always you don't see the the end of this so it's and every month the debt is increasing increasing and it's just like you know i was working every month as a student to try to pay as well as much as i can but i couldn't pay the full the full monthly bill so it was increasing literally so when something like that happens there is two ways you can react either you let this kind of kill you and completely screw your future or you do as you did which is killing myself to be better exactly which is basically use this as fuel and and and and and build this fire in the bay and yeah i will say you have two choices as you said is like just accept the situation and just let it go and just you know just make it worse and just living without any ambition and anything but for me uh i had big dreams big ambitions and i know that i won't i deserve a life that's you know i deserve a life that i dream of and i want but i have to work a lot for that so i never for me was not okay to accept the situation it was not okay to give up and it was a big fuel to just working and just never stop working working working training hard and everything to push myself so so how long did you need to get over this and what did you do uh i mean i was working as a student so i had some little incomes i was paying slowly but it was not enough but then when i when i finished my studies and i had my first job all my incomes was going into this uh into this debt so at the end i think it took me around completely four years to completely close the debt and everything so it was four years of um of having of being in negative in my bank account you know but not being able to to eat proper food of you know eating like cheap food so yeah it was it was not easy when did you start this whole fitness journey um i started to train at 13 years old okay martial arts and uh and after that i i i started to do fitness but i started the bodybuilding journey at i would say at 24 years old 24 yeah so you started bodybuilding when you're i mean being much more serious about bodybuilding and training when you were 24 how did it start yeah so to be honest um i was really i was never passionate by bodybuilding that's the thing i was not like it was not my passion to to flex go on stage put some time you know and i to be very honest with you i had some bad judgments before like long time ago because because i never really like follow a whole process of competitions preparations and everything the backstage so for me i just saw like i would say like the mainstream i just saw like big dude going on stage and flexing and i was like oh this like looks stupid you know it was my first judgment like very long time ago i was very young at this time i mean so i was very i was passionate by martial arts that was my first passion but then i i went to the gym at 14 years old because my coach at this time nelson uh he told me it's good if you go to the gym too so you can it can be more complete have more strength more explosivity all these kind of things so i went to the gym but just you know as a nut of the martial arts not because i liked it but when i started to train actually i really liked it and i started to to build my physique also and i was like oh i started to like you know how i started to look and this so and also the feeling and you know of of training having you know feeling your muscle sore recover and feel good and and more strong seeing the progress exactly endorphins yes and it's forced you to think about oh i have to eat more proteins i have to eat more carbs i have to eat less junk food all these kind of things so it's a whole it's a whole thing that put you in a in a healthy in a healthy space you know and i like this so i anyway it was i just did that as a supplement uh as a complement to my to my martial arts but when i had my first job uh in the macro system the things is like my boss didn't like because i had some bruise on the face sometimes because of this and that was the problem so that was the problem the problem was here and i actually had to stop because i couldn't go i couldn't go you know to the job with the bruise on the face was not okay so so to stop martial arts because of your job basically yeah exactly no i didn't have to stop martial arts i had to stop preparation for fighting so i wanted to fight and you know when you prepare for a fight you do sparring heavy sparring and it's inevitable that you have bruise on your face sometimes so you know at these times i had some bruise but then i had to stop practicing like you know heavy sparring all of that to go on to fight so it was i just have i was just able to train but it's the same now if you play football but you can never play a match you know as a player it's you lose all the challenge parts so it's just training without any challenge no point exactly so i lost all motivation into the martial arts i was like i like it but i will never compete and i knew it so i lost all motivation i was like oh fuck i don't want to continue this then and it is exactly when i just isolate myself into the gym so i stopped martial arts and i was just training in the gym every day and i was just without any attention to to bodybuilding but just my physique was growing growing growing in an aesthetic way because i always train to look aesthetic also as well because I like this style and um who doesn't who doesn't like this style and uh and yes and slowly I started to build a physique like who looks pretty good I mean in terms of athlete and some of my friends who was doing competition in Switzerland they told me bro you should you should try to compete one time you know you should try you have good genetics you look pretty good if you put some mass and you know you can maybe go on stage and see how it goes and I was like yes I don't know it's it's not really my things and and then they just told me yeah just follow my follow my competitions and see how it goes I mean see you know the backstage the preparations everything so I followed the whole process nutrition training cardio mindset recovery the whole things and I follow him to the show and he actually won the show I was in the backstage I saw everything I had the emotional so going on on you know in the in to the competitions and see him winning and i was like why and all this together i was like well i want to i want to try too because i love this i love this whole process and i was the process was amazing i was like this is so challenging and amazing and it's such like a personal work that you have to do on yourself and this is what that what was strange for me and interesting is the fact that you're not fighting with someone else but you're fighting with yourself every single day for months and months until the day you go on stage so when you go on stage the job is done it's not like you practice martial arts and you go on the rings and you have to prove and you have to make the work done you know it's like the whole process is the work when you go on stage it's finished there's nothing more to do you just you just show the work what makes the difference with between two guys who've done all this process and why who one who is basically at the end better than the other do guys check on each other during the process like or you have no idea what's going on and you just do your best and hope for the best um it's hard to say because some some people hope for the best because they they go and they just compete to compete for me if i compete it's because i know i will win like i can win you know it's like i'm not gonna go on stage if i don't feel the best and if i if i know that my my my i mean my friends who's professional or coach they told me you look the best you know you can win the show there's people who go just compete to compete for me if i compete is to win i don't compete just to compete so i started to prep myself i prepped myself for one year and a half until i was ready and i saw my physique and my friends told me yeah you look you know you can you can win a show and this is exactly when i started to i did my first show do you prepare for a specific show in six months or one year or you just train train train train and there you feel great you say i'm just gonna like like kind of register to this show and and see what happens um yeah it's it really depends in each individual i would say because it depends on your actual condition it depends on many factors but in general a preparation is minimum i would say maybe three months to six months it depends depends on your conditions depends if you want to put some mass and so then you have to do like a bulking phase and then shredding phase so it can be longer it can be even one year it really depends okay so let's get let's get back to so you're working as a micro technique engineer you have a not so great boss which makes your situation difficult and at the same time you're working on becoming a euro mm champion or world champion so you're working two full-time jobs at the same time exactly i had no life you're an engineer and you're mm champion to be so tell us tell us more about your life then and basically your strategy to get out of your nine to five when does this come a thing you know when does this become a oh this is a cool thing i'm doing on the side to actually this could this could replace my my my main job um it's it go really slowly but i would say it's it's not by winning competition that you that you can quit a job it's uh it's by being an influencers on social media so uh it was not my my my goals because i didn't believe in me at this time i didn't believe that i can become a champion i didn't believe that you know i can become influencer or anything so i was just training and then i was just started to just share my journey so i was just sharing always on social media what i was doing what i was eating how I was training.

12:50I was also sharing my work when I was at my job. And I was explaining, oh, fuck, it's 5 a.m. I wake up now. I go on my bike. I do my cardio. I take my showers. I go to be at the job at 7 a.m. And I work to 7 a.m. to 5 p.m. To 5 p.m., I have to drive back like maybe 30 minutes, 45 minutes from Yverdon to Switzerland, to Neuchâtel. And then I was going to my house, changing, going to the gym, training hard going home and cooking all my meals for the next day because of course you have you have to be on point with the nutrition so you have to cook with yourself so i was cooking all my meals my five meals every night i was cooking my my next you know for the next day every time so that was it was taking all my time basically i had no life at this point and it was cardio job training cooking and sleep literally that was this every single day for years what about the weekend the weekend I was training I was resting and uh I was focusing on this also I had to work the I had to work the posing I have to relax also because you have to rest so it was it was not an easy it was not an easy time to be honest but at this time I was I was grateful because uh I was in relationship with the girls at this time and we were four years in relationship together so this helped me to to not feel too I will I will say alone and having a support also mental supports and everything and spending time also with her on the weekend.

14:12So we're spending time only on the weekend. So at some point you start to do these competitions and then you start to work with brands around the world. So were you still working your engineering job or this comes like in conjunction with the Instagram thing? I always, always, I quit my job when I was 26. So until 26, I always had to get her. It was always together. Yeah, of course. To basically, it's how do I manage my risk? make it as least squeaky as possible to take the take the loop i left my i quit my job when i started to make actually more money on the side than my own job so i was documenting my journey i was just sharing everything i started to grow on social media so some brands started to to have the eyes on me and the first brand reached me out it was in 2016 and that was my first deal this first was very small because i have like a small following it was like something like 500 a month for just representing a closing rent.

15:07It was very small. So of course you cannot live and do anything with this in Switzerland. What's the small following? Small following was 50 ,000. 50? 50 ,000, yes. 50, okay. So at this point I had the first sponsor who was giving me like free clothes, all the free clothes and giving me like just$500 a month. And that was my first sponsorship, I would say. So I was really happy at this time because for me it was like, oh, this is a bonus, you know. I was just seeing this as, oh, I have free clothes, free gym clothes. I have$500 extra per month. That was cool. And at this point, actually, I finished to pay all my debts from the past, you know.

15:42So I had my salary and I had this extra bonus. So I was happy with this. And then it started to grow. And then I went to the European Championship when I won. But still, at this moment, still no plans to say, I'm going to leave my job. Yes. No, at this time. No strategy. You don't have a strategy where you say, okay, I'm going to do this, this. I'm going to reach these goals. And then I'm going to leave my life on my own terms. no i had when i when i saw the potential of monetizations and making money online by being influencers and representing brands uh literally i was like okay i'm gonna push this to the maximum i'm gonna post the maximum i'm gonna focus on on making the best content interesting content sharing you know information advice workouts nutrition tips everything so i was just thinking what why people will follow me like why someone will follow me so what's the reason to become influencers and then i was exchanging the roles i was like why i follow someone you know so i follow someone because he gave me something yeah you follow someone because he give you something he make you love he give you motivation inspirations or he give you good tips or anything like this so i was like okay if i can give all of that to people people will follow me so i was just posting every day and trying to to brainstorm every day how can i be creative what can i share what information so i was spending a lot of time actually thinking non-stop what can i give to people to motivate them to follow me and grow my community and become influencers but you're still training for championship at the same time and you have a full-time job so how do you have that because this social media thing is like it's crazy time consuming and you can you can do it during your main job so how do you have this not impact your main job or your main job like requires you to keep your phone somewhere that you can't yeah we couldn't because i was working in office in laboratory so laboratory when we were working in laboratory in um in a in a clean room you know it's like this clean room when you go with the full combination and everything you don't you can't you don't spend time on the phone and also you have camera and anyway you work and you focus on the work and if we work with dangerous products like as a chemistry we were working with dangerous gas dangerous like dangerous acid all these kind of things you just cannot be on the phone so but i was spending all my pause on the phone checking the notifications trying to scroll down trying to see what what the biggest influencers was posting what they were talking about what they were sharing about and i was i was always doing this on the weekend also so my weekend after that uh my ex-girlfriend at this time she liked to do photos she liked to do some photo and she had like a nikon photo um camera and i started to do my first photo with this this is how i started to do like professional photo like photo who's not taking with the with the phone and look shit you know so so that's it's all started like this and i was spending my weekend doing this uh so yeah literally yeah so basically everything comes out of passion and things that you're trying out and that you that you love doing and until it's not until after some time that you realize oh this has some true potential i'm just gonna go all in what's the level of sacrifice that comes with follow following your entrepreneurship dreams because most people think they want to not have a job the freedom all that stuff you know but like they they're what i call entrepreneurs you know yeah because they think it's cool like all this stuff you know like i have a business and i have clients and i have response and i can do whatever i want and i can take holidays when i want they think it's cool but actually they don't necessarily see the that side of you know all the sacrifice and the actual reality so having gone through the ups and downs of being your own boss what can you tell us about the cool things but also the really the the harsh truth and maybe you can talk about covid yeah i think it's we can talk about covid a little bit after first i'm gonna go back on this topic i think it's it's hard it's a hard question to be honest but which is very difficult i think at this point is to disconnect and that was it started to be a little bit toxic for me for my relationship and this because i was so in this focus of you know being creative creating contents you know being some idea or exploring finding a new spot to take photo and you know always a nice background how can i pose how can I do this?

20:09And I was always thinking, so when I was doing my cardio, so every day I was doing one hour cardio on my bike and I was always trying to be the most productive as possible. So when I was doing one hour on the bike, I was always like watching video. I was thinking of idea. I was taking note on my phone, always like this. And, you know, at the end, you're always connected. Even if you don't have your phone, you're always connected and thinking about, oh, content, content, content, this and this, you know? And it can be toxic because you never really disconnect. So a lot of people, I think you can see, a lot of people in the influence industry or like celebrities like this uh do a burnout sometimes because they cannot disconnect and that's the reason why they do burnout you know but the obsession is also the reason why people make it exactly it's needed that's true you have to you have to is the option is the obsession of of of one i mean the desire to succeed and change your life of course and having a better life so without this without obsession i think you can't you can't said absolutely and that's what most people don't understand they say oh just take some time to spend some time with me but then the next day there's the next one and then especially when you're in Bali when you're in Bali it's like oh there's this friend coming and then there's this one having the birthday and then you're having a party and like if you basically you you say no to everything because or almost everything because if you say start to saying yes to one thing and then the other and then the other you end up going from this very obsessed lifestyle that's going to help you reach your goals to this complete degenerate lifestyle that's actually doing the complete opposite to your life which is how to reach zero of your goals yeah um so one really interesting thing you talked about your father before and so basically you you're doing all these sacrifice sacrifice because you just as you said you know most people think oh it's so cool to be at the top and like you're on these pictures and you have all these followers and all that stuff but they don't realize that the life you had to get there and also the life you have you you have to maintain this status is a lot of sacrifices it's a lot of stress it's a lot of stress and sacrifice yeah for sure and so so you live in switzerland before now basically you're doing all the sacrifices you wake up at 5 a.m you go to cardio you go to work uh you eat super clean so even like the social time of eating when people say, let's go to this restaurant.

22:32You don't do it basically because you can't. Then you go home in the, then you go train. Then you go home in the evening, you cook for the day after. So basically you pretty much have no life. And on the top of that, you live in Switzerland where the definition of success is have a stable, secure career. Find a wife, buy a house when you're 30 years old, work all your life, a secure job, retire when you're old and probably not that fit anymore. so you are very clear on your dreams and how you'll get there but then you have your dad who doesn't exactly align with you on this so what happened exactly yeah i mean uh my family i will say they they focus a lot on studies having a stable job and everything of course because they think about security which is normal i understand you know if you have kids if i have kids i will do the same i will just think about security for them like this was like a secure job and I know they will be safe all their life.

23:27This is how parents think mostly. So, of course, they were afraid when I told them, I want to quit my job and I want to become, I'm just going to, you know, become like a professional athlete and influencers. And the reaction is like, you know, you're just going to go in the gym and take photo, video, and post on such a meal. It's going to be your job, you know. But it's also a different generation. So it's, you know, some people cannot understand the old generation, but actually they they don't understand the power of influence like influence it's so powerful yeah i give you a very simple example now for example actually now currently i have 900 uh 940 000 followers i think something like this yeah um so imagine now i just launched a t-shirt basic t-shirts let's say 25 i make 10 on each t-shirt and i promote on my social media if i if only 0.5 percent of my community buy this t-shirt you can make the calculations yeah it's a huge number already yeah and zero from 0.5 percent is small so people don't understand the power of the influence it's it's huge it's numbers you know it's like we if you have now for example you have like i would say you have one million someone have one million followers you have maybe 100 000 people who watch his story every day this is two full football stadium watching him every day what he's doing and you have maybe just one percent of this which is you know one percent is one thousand who consume his product yeah so you have one thousand people consuming one product yeah it's already it's 10 10 10 you know it's it's it's a lot of money yeah and it's more than what can what a doctor can make or injury can make like this by just being influencer you know because you have influence on people after of course you have many different influencers you have people who become influencers because they have good influence you have people who just do three shit and and they just become influencers because they they just make love people but at the end what they do is just like stupid yeah um it's true you know it's a reality today with tiktok even more you you just have tons of new completely stupid influencers who just make stupid things who makes no sense and it's it's pretty that's interesting because i mean we'll talk about that later in how do you monetize your influence but especially regarding tiktok i was i was uh talking to this dude he was like oh man i have seven million followers on tiktok and i can't i have a normal job because i can't make money out of that and so that's the very distorted reality of uh of uh you actually need to leverage your influence with a business or entrepreneurship to actually make money exactly that's the things you you have a lot of different kind of of influencers uh you have also the influencers uh who have the business mindset that this is everything you cannot monetize properly your influence if you don't have a business mindset or you have someone who just don't know but you have a manager and the manager he's like specialized for that he know exactly how to monetize he know where to put the attention where to put the investment the money and everything and he's going to make numbers and he's going to convert these numbers into money you know so it's a whole process to be honest i started with the with the manager also i worked with the manager for four years and he teached me a lot i'm really grateful for that and i quit um i think i broke the contract and now i'm alone for like two years and a half i manage myself i have no managers i do everything myself because i learn everything i don't need anyone to help me and taking me my money actually because this is a manager of course it's good because he gives you deals and he gives you he gives you deals and he takes 20 approximately most of managers take 20 on your incomes on all the deals that he's provide you so for example now he gives you a deal of five thousand dollars a month he's going to take one thousand a month but at this point i was like okay i was not really happy with this manager and i was thinking okay he you know he took me 20 but basically he do nothing for me so you know i can do myself and just keep my money for myself so so we'll talk about that a bit later but just like circling back to your dad so we understand now like there is you understood your parents didn't understand the potential power that comes with influence and probably most people didn't because a lot of people would think oh these are just a bunch of like people who are self-centered and were narcissistic uh doing stuff online and if you if you combine bodybuilding social media like this is like the next level of like what people might think is narcissistic and maybe your parents might just be like oh man what are you are you out of your mind so but for all the people out there who are dealing with parents who are not necessarily supportive to do you know a youtuber or it could be to start a business or like what would you tell these people you know how do you deal with the parents who is not that there's not supportive uh listen i would say if you believe in yourself you just have to keep going you know it's at the end it's like if you really want it but and if you believe in yourself even if you don't believe yourself at the end but if you really want it but just do it and just keep doing it and you know and one day it's gonna happen i believe that every single person who work hard and he's consistent and disciplined with his work will have we will be rewarded one day you know and i saw myself i saw on few friends also i pushed them i say bro keep going keep going and today they changed their life you know so it's the parents will not understand because it's not their generation you know my family i mean my parents they understand after that because they saw me literally you know quitting my job and having a better life than before with social media so they just they just saw that and i make them proud today they're part of me so what's your relationship with your dad now oh very good I have amazing relationship with my parents now of course so it's all about if someone is not very supportive like you're gonna if you really believe in the thing you're gonna continue the only thing you can't ask them is financial support you have to say hey like I'm doing my own thing but I'm gonna take care of myself basically

29:26so you mentioned before so growing the social media you start sharing some some things online just because you think it's cool and you you you you do it more and more you start to realize oh some people actually like to follow the thing what's the tipping point for you that got you into the next dimension basically in terms of social media following you mentioned competitions but like how did it happen is it like you you share your your your journey and then you go for this competition and then you're like oh fuck actually like because i did this competition and i won explosion or is it like a probably there's not only one event i was uh i don't know if i can say no i was not lucky because i was working hard so it's not luck but i feel lucky at the moment because when i won it's literally exploded and when i won after that uh the championship two times and i went to america to las vegas in november 2017 and i went to america without any expectations at this time i had the manager so my manager was from america and he told me listen nicola you can win the world championship just go it's okay and i was afraid i was like non-confident i was like no no no there's no way give me one more year to prepare for that and i come back on stage and i will go there and he told me no let's go let's go let's at least try i i pay you the full trip and you know and you can enjoy one week after that and i was like oh so it's like two weeks holiday in america for free so let's go i was like you know i have nothing to lose at the end so i went to america without any expectation i'm out in my mind i was like okay i'm just gonna have some fun i'm gonna enjoy the the whole process i'm gonna enjoy america i'm gonna travel i'm gonna visit los angeles and las vegas because it's gonna be sick and uh and i went at the world championship and i won i finished first place and i was really shocked i was like and after that it's exploded you know all the media in Switzerland came to me the tv newspaper radio my social media exploded sponsor coming money with the sponsor and I just changed my life you know so it went very fast and it was yeah it was crazy and so this so so the moment you leave your job is after that yeah yeah after that I still I still work because I wanted to save some money also yeah so I wanted to secure myself also to leave Switzerland and move to to Bali so so yeah how did the Bali ID come along uh actually I went to Indonesia first time in 2007 with my dad um it was my first holiday with my dad and my brother like out of Europe I'm very far and uh and we went to Sulawesi I visit like Sulawesi we did like some islands we did like scuba diving all these kind of things and I fell in love with Indonesia I was like wow I love the place I love the food I love the people here that's so nice the world is so nice you know people is so open minds and i really love this and i'm also half asian half korean so i'm born with the asian genetics and you know i grew up with this mindset my mom is asian i always eat asian asian food all these kind of things so i was always attracted by by this and after that i i went i went also to malaysia i went to thailand i went to south korea to visit my family because i have a big family in south korea and i always i was always attracted by by this culture you know and for me the europe mindset was not matching with mine that's an interesting one uh europe mindset is more closed mind i would say a little bit more cold when when you go in asia it's very like open mind people are warm helpful they're always like you know nice smiling anything is possible yeah so anything is possible yeah it's true and it's a very different very different mindset yeah so after that i visited bali with the team body engineers and tavi castro for the first time uh for a sponsor trip so we went to bali it was to because i like we had like an old brand new collection of clothes and everything so we came two weeks here to make content to shoot in all the most beautiful waterfalls and everything and i really discovered bali at this time and i was like this place is sick like it's well i was my i was you know my mind was blowing i was like i was looking around i was like this is crazy beautiful natures and people and food i was and i felt so good also the energy at this place was good and i didn't want to leave after the two weeks i was like oh i don't want to go back home you know and uh and this is how i take my decision i went back to switzerland and i was anyway thinking okay i need to leave switzerland because i was non-stop traveling around the world i was always every month i was traveling in the country i was doing something and i was in switzerland paying my rent and everything for nothing you know so i was i was thinking at this point okay i'm gonna quit my job i'm gonna just quit switzerland and i'm gonna move to bali that was maybe two months after the trip i came back and i said that you know and i say to my friend i say listen listen keep my words like in one year i will live in bali and eight months after i was in bali and i told him i'm a man of words if i say something if i say something i'm always doing it you know and he he was like yeah yeah everybody say i'm gonna move to bali blah blah blah he was like this and i said no bro you know me i always keep my words and eight months after i sold all I sold my car like everything in my apartment I just left and I moved to Bali that was um before the pandemic and after that I moved to Bali I was enjoying everything and then the pandemic happened and Bali closed and I stayed two years in Bali with the pandemic that was the best place to be in pandemic that was the best I was just I don't want to say that because it's not nice but I was just in the paradise living the best life and hearing all my friends all around was complaining and and create in a crazy situations when for me i didn't feel anything you know i was here in a bubble we didn't feel anything and it was just the paradise you know and i was like wow i'm so lucky to be here it's such like a you know a blessing to be here and be able also to visit the place so i spent so much time during the pandemic to explore valley because it was empty so i took photo contents everywhere it was empty i spent a lot of time enjoying the place also you know the waterfall everything and it was just empty and now you can go of course i went sometimes because i showed to some friends but it's not the same now you go to waterfall you have to wait a queue of 30 minutes just take a photo and you have to move you cannot just sit and enjoy the place you know it's very different now it's still beautiful of course but but yeah it's different and also what i would say also it's like most of people they come to bali and they want to make the most in two weeks like they go to every place take a photo and leave they go to the beach club they eat to the restaurant all of that but this is this is not bali you know like this is not beach club all this is not bali guys you know if you come to bali don't go to this beach club all these kind of things because you will not see bali at all if you want to discover bali go into the waterfall go into ubud go you know visit like the cultures go eat in the street food market go i mean discover you know way more than just the the luxury restaurant and the beach club and all these kind of things because this is absolutely not So you talked about pandemic, COVID, and we were basically talking about Instagram.

36:32What impact did you feel on your Instagram? Because, for example, when there's a crisis, so basically you say, okay, I'm going to go, I'm going to take the leap. I'm going to go all in. I'm going to become an influencer. I'm going to have deals with brands. But when there is a crisis, the first thing that most companies do is cut costs. And most of the time they say, oh, what's the easiest thing to cut? Marketing. And therefore, influencer impacted. So how did you leave that? And what happened to you and maybe your friends who are in the field and in the industry? And how did you, I mean, deal with this and come back stronger?

37:12Yeah, so this time, it was the first time when I, I mean, just before talking about this, I would say, like, people have to understand that being influencers if you have only these incomes it can be like a very stressful job because the competition is very huge and and you become obsessed about your engagement because at the end the numbers is money it's like how many people watch your story how many people like your post how many people click your link how many people buy the things that you promote this is how brands pay you brands pay you on your performance and what's performance it's your engagement and your statistic so if your statistic if your statistic decrease it's stressful you know and the algorithm always it's always up and down instagram algorithm so it means that you depends on the algorithm which is very stressful it means that the algorithm will choose your destiny literally so sometimes you you put a post and it's working amazingly and it's growing your engagement and you gain followers and you feel good and then you post the other day something else and it's nobody like the photo you have no followers maybe you know and and then you start being anxious and be oh no it's not good you know i have to and it's it's these things is stressful you know so you really depend on that so if i talk about this is because it shows you how unstable is the social media industry it's not a sustainable sustainable and stable job i would say yeah if i can give an advice to anyone is like if you become influencers don't spend your money on stupid things on materials be smart invest on the side and try to do something else as well don't depend only on social media because this can be very stressful and very dangerous also for your own security and uh and actually i forgot but this is what happened with meta and facebook and instagram pretty much a year or two years ago So they changed the algorithm at the same time that it was already very difficult because it was COVID.

39:08Exactly. True. So if I say that, it's because I saw by myself that it was in April 2020 when the COVID was hitting very hard the walls. The walls started to close, you know, to how you say that they started to lock down and everything. So I was working with four brands at this time. I lost one deal with a fashion closing brand. Well, it was a good deal. so that was just a loss so imagine now it's like i give you an example i remove 5 000 per month like this just because covid hits and the brands say okay our budget now it's it's like half so we have to cut half of the of the influencers it's like this then uh lockdown in in the uk in manchester so i was working with the big brands at this time and uh lockdown so people couldn't create couldn't make the clothes couldn't ship the clothes dhl all the the shipping company was also shut down so if you promote a brand but they cannot ship the clothes there's no point so the brands froze they froze my salary so closing brands froze my salary my supplements brands closed froze my salary all my salary from the influence from the social media was froze i lost one incomes and three was froze so literally i had no incomes it was insane in april it happens this time when you come from here and boom and you're here and you're like oh so the next month it means i will have nothing from the social media so and then you realize wow fuck it's you know it's fucking stressful and you know you realize that you know at any times it can stop and it can stop at any times and this is how you start to think about oh i really have to invest in something else i have to do something else on the side and i have to diversify my income to feel insecurity so i was glad because this period only last three months so i had three months where i had no incomes coming from the social media and um but the worst is and after that this came back the worst is you don't know when it's going to start again exactly i was every month waiting what you know i was watching the news all the time i was thinking you know but i was lucky at this time because i had savings so i was okay and i was in bali also the living cost was lower than switzerland for example so it was okay i wasn't i was i couldn't complain i couldn't complain it was okay but it just showed me that's how unstable it is and there's no security at all and at any times it can just like stop and then i was starting to think also but if imagine now you have a hacker who had your account and you lost your account it's like you lost all your incomes from social media straight so all these kind of things push me a lot to to be you know to i was already in the past already but to push me even more to to think about doing something else investing something else and diversify my incomes that's an interesting one because there is no such thing as people always say oh i'm just gonna work hard and invest in different things and push hard to basically retire but this never happens because the more things you do the more you need to be careful to not fuck things up otherwise and usually when shit hits the fan everything goes to shit at the same time which is up which is what happens all the time all the time so there's never read that moment we're just like okay i'm done and good and chill because because if you think that way you're gonna get screwed basically basically there's never chill there's never chill like to give you an example uh yeah i woke up at 5 a.m today i had meetings with my team in america at 5 30 i went to the gym to smash my cardio i was i was exploring land all the day i had three meetings and then i went to the gym went home quick eat some things take showers and now i'm here it's like now 13 hours first time i can sit down and really like you know cool down but yeah this is the relaxed moment of the day yeah this is kind of my day like i'm always in run you know run run run run run and the only day is sunday but from monday to saturday i'm running all the time but the thing is like i don't feel working that's the difference that's the big thing when i was in switzerland i was working this whole time job and i i felt like i was like a slave and i was i had all this obligation to work to earn my money to pay my bills and that was just a shit system that i didn't like i didn't feel fitting in this but today i choose every day what i do are completely free like i manage my time i manage my business i do everything i want when i want and because of that i don't feel working i can work 14 hours per day it's fine i do only what i like that's like here i'm here sitting and talking to you you know that's a part of my job also because at the end it's is you know it's like talking about promoting myself, promoting everything and indirectly it's promoting the brands that I work with and everything.

43:45So it's all go together. But it's fun. It's fun. That's an interesting one because people say I want to leave the 9 to 5 and build my own company so basically I can chill more or I can have more control over my time and my freedom. But usually you leave your 9 to 5 to go to 7 to 11. But as you say, because it's if you're doing something that you're passionate about you're just going to do it non-stop and it's going to be you're just going to be buzzing all the time basically yeah and that's the only way you have this energy to do it but it's amazing like i love every single day to be honest since i live in bali i love every single day like it's i live in bali for four years now already and i really just love this life like i'm so grateful for this every day i'm really grateful to just wake up every day live the life you know the way i want to what i want to travel when i want when i want it's just like you know that was my dream that was something when i was younger i was thinking if only one day i can have this life and you made it happen the little boy from a little village so i saw you recently changed the kind of videos you create yeah and they're much more fun basically and you got more viral yeah exactly you got some that got really viral i think one got like 15 million views in like a few weeks so 20 millions 20 million now okay how do you create buzz on social media um first of all i have my full-time videographer now so i have a videographer who follow me every day five five days a week for seven months now so i pay him monthly and he's following me every day for example last week i was in jakarta for five days and he you know i Like I take him with me and he just filmed me taking contents, everything.

45:31And he's definitely upgrading my contents. You know, I already invested in all the camera stuff and everything. But before I was always asking to friends, oh, can you take photos? Can you just make a quick video? But when you have a videographer, it's different. Do they come up with ideas too? I come with ideas. Like I'm extremely creative. Like extremely creative. I can show you. If I show you, for example, my notes. So this is my phone. This is my real post ID. so every day i have maybe every day i write maybe around three three four ideas of video you see and this is like all my real post id uh when you have like a like a green because it's because i made it already and this is all the ideas of video that i'm doing i'm creating i did this one already i posted already and when i have this kind of idea and i make them happens it's pretty pretty much of the time it's go pretty well so yeah it's it's you know it's that's what i say you never disconnect that again because you always think but you have to be creative but you always have to think you know new idea how you can make something funny or how you make or i did a video in in bali who went completely viral i think like 50 millions when i was selling back so i was doing back so with the crypto stuff yes i made a joke of that yeah and this video went completely viral you know and i was making a joke about i was a situation in bali during the pandemic and after pandemic so and this video just went viral you know so and it's just idea who come like this and i always try to think about how can i make a situation or something funny or interesting or you know something always or also trying to educate people sharing informations always so that's exactly what we were talking at the beginning is i try to give the maximum to my community like i try to give the maximum advice motivations like my experience my tips nutrition tips and i share my journey i just share how about what i do when i wake up what i do what i eat you know what i do for my recovery if i have an injury what i'm what i'm doing everything and i think that's what people like to see because at the end you follow someone and you want to you want to see you know if you follow someone it's because for example they follow me for maybe my physique or maybe something else but they if they follow me for my physique they want to know how i reach this physique how i stay in shape what what i'm eating you know what's my food how i prepare my food how i cook my food how i train all these kind of things so i also now i also do like recipe for food i share my recipe i show how i cook what i eat so this is something that's very interesting for people too can you tell us so in 2023 the for example instagram game is much harder to get followers and like it's much harder than before because everything changed what are the best strategies to increase your followers i mean you can do collaborations you already have this super you have super you have these videos that are like super yeah creative and funny what are the other things that you would tell people who are kind of stuck yeah yeah i would say stop to try to be perfect this not working anymore guys like when i started to be influencers it was only about posing looking good flexing you know the perfect haircut the perfect clothes and people or people was always looking to to look perfect you know there was oh i want to look perfect i want this and this but this is finished now people just you know we saw too much of that people now they want to they want to laugh they want to see real real vibes they want to see something real they don't they don't want to see someone fake or photoshop and just you know flexing it's nobody cares about this anymore that's why i saw a little fat on your abs on the picture yeah that's true but that's that's one of the things the joke obviously it's it's also because a lot of people you know um i will say once social media started it's you we had these trends of looking good of showing the fashion style and all these kind of things and after that we have this the the counter effect which is a lot of people who felt bad you know because they always see perfect people good shape peoples and everybody you know photoshop their photo and like you know like smooth the skin all these kind of things and people they use filter all these kind of things and after they look themselves and they start to feel bad so they start to think that their life is shit and also people in the past was always of course you always post the best moment of your day the best moment of your life so people who look at you they think that your life is always the best and it's always perfect and they compare always with themselves and like this is his life this is my life oh my life is shit and you know people started to become depressive people compare and become negative and this is why we have this you know it's completely switched now of people that are tired to see perfection and now they want to see the reality that's why we have this big trend before of instagram versus reality because people they're tired of seeing this fake fake life now people want to see real things now it's finished to look perfect because nobody's perfect it's absolutely that's a that's a great one and it's really interesting i was a couple of years ago i think i came back to bali every year since 2014 or and one of these years 2017 i was with a I was here with a girlfriend who was like big Instagrammer.

50:33And at some point they go do these photo shoots on the beach. And then there's these Insta couples there. There was this big trend of like, oh, this Instagram couple is going everywhere. On the back. So they're like, oh, I know these guys Insta couples. So we started to talk to them. Me, I had no idea because I had no idea about all this social media stuff. I was just doing some IT business stuff with guys who are bald or and all the basic I was like oh man I don't understand this thing but fine whatever she was like oh yeah let's go talk to these guys they're super famous so I'm just there listening because I have no idea what's going on and then the first reaction so she was there with another friend of hers who was like huge influencer the first reaction right after talking to this girl and guy this couple is we leave nice to meet you and then first thing they say they don't look like on Instagram they don't look like on their pictures i was like oh bro really that's that's what it's all about so interesting one and that's why that's my biggest advice guys is if you want to succeed like today to be honest just be real like just be real just be honest with your community just be real and don't try to look perfect because at the end people will just be tired of that they will be like this guy tried to be always perfect like nobody cares like i have my bad days too you know like he's everybody's the same and it's the same like now i posted some photo you know because of course i post photo when i own if i promote the brands or something like a swim shorts or anything i'm gonna take the i'm gonna pose you know i'm gonna flex my muscles i'm gonna look with the good lights with good things to to make like a nice photo for the closing you know for the branding is different but when i post things for myself i don't give a fuck to be honest and that's the things like i made a video when i show like how i looks like on a photo and how it looks like when i'm sitting on the chair and i'm not flexing my muscle you're not flexing non-stop with the best lights 24 hours this is not the reality but people they look the the photo and i think that you look on the phone non-stop like this so that's why now it's important to show to people the reality and just be real authenticity exactly and they basically the big the big big boys they say when you're authentic you have no competition because you're building your own community that is following you for you and that's how basically you you get people to choose you over other people or they can choose multiple people to follow yeah what do you make out of other platforms such as youtube tiktok which are still pretty relevant like now so i started tiktok like a week ago very recently just because i have some friends who really pushed me because uh yeah it's i'm gonna i mean i start i start to grow i just started a few ago only and uh and the problem is that i mean it's not a problem but i started a little bit like um late i would say but i will try to convert now and build another community but as in market is huge and it's also one of the reasons i moved also in asia so as a market is is huge and it's growing europe market it's not growing as as asian market and in asia tiktok is huge and what they did now is very very smart and it's crazy they built tiktok shop so for everybody who don't know the biggest platform shop online is called tokopedia in indonesia tokopedia is the main platform which is huge but tokopedia numbers is going down today because of the tiktok shop so this is now a point when you understand how tiktok is being impact you know it's impacting and become huge.

54:02And influencers today in Asia who can directly link their influence into TikTok shop, they make huge numbers and they sell a lot. So they make a lot of money. So I was in Jakarta with a friend. His name is Varel. He has like 26 million followers. We made some contents together. We had an interview with the TV there. And he's the guy who pushed me to tell me, yeah, do your accounts. You know, you have to do TikTok. It's very big. Now it's going to start to be big. And TikTok shop is growing crazy. TikTok shop is very small and growing still in America and Europe. It's only available in UK and America, not in the whole Europe, but Asia, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, China, and it's growing very fast, very, very fast because people spend their day scrolling, scrolling, scrolling and watching TikTok video and they can also buy directly everything.

54:52So when influencers promote something, they can just click and buy. So it's instant shop, you know. So they study this psychology of impulsivity of shopping. When you see something, oh, I want this. And on the moment, you want it. But maybe if you wait one hour and you think, one hour after, oh, should I buy this? Oh, maybe not, you know. But because of the impulsivity and the accessibility, you can buy it in a few seconds. So you cannot have... Yes. So it's forced people to consume and buy even more. So it's a whole thing they built to force people to consume and it's working. So it's a huge market and there's a lot of money to take here.

55:30And that's exactly why I started my TikTok too. It's all about strategy at the end. Awesome. So basically, this is very linked to the business side of influencing. Business mindset. Exactly. So that's the thing. If you want to make a living from the influence, you need a business mindset. You always need to think and analyze the market to see where's the numbers, where's the money is, where's the money is moving, what's the trend, what's all these kind of things and understand the market, understand people community and try to convert and monetize a maximum when you have the business mindset and you know how to monetize this is how you can make very good money from this what's the what's the best so let's say you you're someone who built a substantial online following but you don't really have a business method you haven't thought about it because you were doing this for fun and you realize oh man this is taking some proportions here so what's the the thing you would tell people who want to look at that monetizing side what should they do you know how do how how do you sell yourself and learn to monetize your influence that's a good question because there's so many different influencers like you know you have influencers because they're funny you have influencers because they're fashion or cosmetic or you have sports influencers like me i became influencers because i was a professional athlete and i became champion not because i was doing funny stuff or i was modeling you know it was just because I was a professional athlete.

56:56So first of all, my first advice is understand your community and find your niche. So for example, I'm an athlete. So people follow me because I'm an athlete. So if now I'm going to promote cosmetic, I'm not going to make any sales. So it makes no sense. So you have to understand your community. So look at your community, understand them. Don't feel shy to ask questions in your story, make like poll and ask questions just to understand them. You know, like guys, you like this kind of content, you like this and this, and they're going to reply and you will see what your community like and then you can you can find you know easily you can find your niche and find what your community looks like and this is where you have to put your attention and where you have to find a way to monetize this and when you find your niche then you have to work the brand in this niche and you have to make collaboration with brands because they're gonna they will buy for example i work with one of the best clothing brand in the world which is vanquish i work i'm sponsored with one of the top brand of the world is evogen nutrition we just signed a big contract with indonesia now we import we have the exclusivity indonesia and and we make very good numbers with this brand now you know so but this is my niche like people they want to know what supplements i take to recover to build you know my muscle all these kind of things they they look what kind of clothes i wear when i train and they want maybe the same clothes that they're gonna buy you know if now you give me a this plant you know i promote this plant, my community will be like, why you promote this plant?

58:20Like, I don't, I don't care about this. It all comes back to basically authenticity and, and these deals need to make actual sense with what you love already as a product and what, what you naturally may potentially even use before and just say, oh, look, I love this thing so much. Yeah. I mean, you are the product. You are the product. So you put something on you. does it that's that's how it works and this is how because i what i mean by you're the product is like brands see you as a product or as a shop i would say it's the same now if you go to new york times square why people buy all why people invest in all this billboard they pay crazy amount of money like this huge billboard in the in the center of new york this massive screen brands they pay so much money to put their logos or website or something there why because everybody's no yeah exactly because everybody's walking in this street it's one of the most it's the most busy street of new york so if you put something huge on this screen everybody will look at this screen and they will be like oh maybe i'll you know and they will go on the website they will look what is this and it's going to attract numbers it's going to attract visibility and sales and money so influencers is like a billboards in new york square yeah so when you're big influencers you're the big screen in the middle.

59:41And the smaller you are and the smaller you go in the street, you know? So, yeah, you really have to understand how to monetize and how to increase your visibility, all these kind of aspects. Is it? So, I always think about, you know, people, I mean, it's not the same at all, but like the kind of, I think the comparison makes a bit of sense. For example, people, let's take back to an example in Switzerland. You know, there is people who just say, I don't really know what to do. I'm going to sell insurances because I can make good money and because I have a bunch of friends I can sell insurances too and I'm going to get these commissions.

1:00:13The problem is when you run out of friends to buy these insurances, you don't make the commissions anymore or the money anymore and the insurance company is going to tell you, thank you, bye. Now with influencers, I'm wondering how much does the thing last basically? Because even if you have great following, you're going to have some people you convert and then they're going to buy and then, but at some point the numbers will go down automatically because people will. Yeah. so it's very different because now you you talk about the instruments you sell your instance to your friends and it's finished but it's you know you don't have a new instruments every month or like it's something new i mean it's very different in the influencer marketing for example uh let's talk about supplements so i'm going to sell supplements my followers will buy supplements you also have to understand that you when you influences you always your work and your responsibility i will say is to grow your influence you don't stay at the same level if you sell the same level you just it's like a race in being influencer is a constant race everybody is running to be on the top so you can you never stop so when you you talk you take the example of about about your friends and instruments it's you mentioned a group of friends uh your community instagram is always growing so you always attract new people so you always attract new customer and also the difference is like if now i promote supplements um for example supplement is something that people will buy every month.

1:01:35For example, now you start consuming protein or you start vitamin C or omega-3 or whatever. I have to buy one. And every month we will buy. It's the same like you eat food every day. So it's something you're going to buy every month. And if you switch from other brands, the brands risk that the followers will follow you to the top brands. So the brands want to keep you to keep your follower base with them. Also, your follower base is growing. So it means you attract always new customers. It means your sales is growing. So if your community grow, your numbers grow at the same time. So it's up to you.

1:02:08If you're not a good content creator and you're not growing your community, of course, a brand will see your numbers not moving or going down and they will just kick you out. This is a fact. How much can you really make when you leverage your social media influence? So tell us more about all the ranges you've seen. Because you told me, oh man, I've seen guys with millions of followers who make 2k a month. But I've also seen guys I even saw myself guys who have a pretty small following, but are able to make a million a year or millions per year just because they have a different business mind. Yeah.

1:02:46yeah i mean it's for me the key thing is people always so there is this thing of influence is called social capital. People very often think because you have a big social capital, therefore you're rich and successful. Exactly. It's not true. It's not true. I know people who have one million followers and have no exclusive deal with brands. It means they have no fixed salary. They just work deals by deals and sometimes they don't make any money. Sometimes they make maybe small money because they don't know how to monetize. They didn't understand their following. They're follower-based. They didn't understand that.

1:03:16You also have people who have fake followers. So, of course, it's just a joke. So, these people, you see them because Because they never work with any brands at the end. Or they cannot keep a brand with them. Because the brands, they take them in the team. This person promotes the brands. And he makes no sales. Because, of course, if you have fake followers, nobody will buy. So you got kicked out straight. You know, what's really interesting about fake followers is just me with this podcast. I can't tell you directly. Because we do this. We release the episode. This reel and this collaboration and all that stuff.

1:03:49I see directly if the community is real or not. Like, it's crazy. And the truth is, there is so many people who basically faked it till they made it or actually faked it till they still fake it. It's crazy. Like, it's even worse or more than I thought. So, yeah, now you have a lot of tools to analyze that, actually. So, in the past, it was very tricky for brands. now brands have a lot of tools to analyze an account so it's different so yeah you have this case when people can have like a fake flow base and cannot monetize because it's just fake but then you have the case when someone he just don't know how to monetize he just don't know and he's he's maybe shy or he don't know he don't know how to contact brands he don't know how to deal with brands he don't know how to ask money and brands is you know brands they will always try to not pay you brands at the beginning they always try to tell you oh i send you this and you can make a story or you can maybe make a post and i send you like 500 of clothes and some people they're just like oh wow free clothes okay i make a post or i make a story because they don't understand their power the power of the influence and they don't understand the potential of monetization so they just accept free stuff and they promote brands but they don't make money so that's the thing so so this there's many different things so it's very hard to say how much someone can make but i i knew and i saw people with one million followers who have no deal with brands and don't make pretty no money and i saw guys with one million who can make maybe 10k 20k and even more it really depends on each video it's also dependent on your niche like i know people who have maybe 50 000 followers only i would say only not only but 50 000 followers and they make huge numbers because they have a strong follower base but their product they sell.

1:05:41It's very expensive. Like they sell like high ticket course or these kind of things. And it's like, it's just like one course is maybe 1 ,000. They sell maybe 10 per month and they make 10 ,000 a month with, you know, with 50K. So you cannot put, you cannot put like salary base on the follower base. It's completely different and you have so many different niches. The niche is a really interesting one because if you look at crypto, for example. Exactly. It's a crazy one. In crypto, you can make tens of millions per year with not huge followings. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I saw guys with a smaller, small forum base making like big numbers, you know, also bigger than me.

1:06:17And I was like, whoa, whoa, like you're killing it and you don't have like a big community. It's really show how it's really upon your niche. Niche-based, absolutely. That's a great one. So the niche is important. Also, I was thinking, I mean, I kind of also looked at all the stuff that's made out there and something that seems to be very relevant is building your own products versus showcasing products of other brands. So you're building your own brand. Back to the example you had before, you said the t-shirt. Let's say you build an app. Let's say you build a fitness app. And let's say you have 1 million followers, which you pretty much have.

1:06:58And you say, okay, if I'm able to turn 0.1 % of my followers into active paying customers, which is 0.1 % of 1 million would be 1 ,000, right? 1 ,000 people. Let's say they pay 20 bucks a month. You've turned 0.1 % into a paying customer. So 1 ,000 people at 20 bucks a month and you make money come on directly. I mean, directly. Obviously, you need to build the app and then you need to justify the fact that it's your pay. It's a lot of investment in time. So actually, I have a whole team working on my app. So it's funny that you mentioned that because my app is coming. I have a whole team working on this for four months now.

1:07:45So it takes time, but they bought the whole things like from scrap. And it's going to be like a very, very complete app. So when you pay like a nutritionist or coach, it's also way more expensive. It's of course better because it's directly made for you and customized and you have like a follow-up, which is different. but we have to understand that not everybody is able to pay also this price. Some people are okay to maybe just invest$15 a month, but having like a base who, you know, who help them to reach their goals. So the best, as I said, always is diversify your incomes, diversify your, you know, everything.

1:08:23Just try to make the most of it in every single sector and not be just focused on one thing. Which basically means more and more work, more and more stress. Exactly. Less and less free time and holidays and freedom. That's why I'm always moving, moving and in the run. Absolutely. But I love that. Exactly, especially if you're in your late 20s, early 30s, you don't want to retire. That's not the moment. Of course not. Let's talk about social media and mental health. So this social media thing, as you said before, is stressful as fuck, basically. We all know it's very rough on mental health for people who produce, but also for people who consume.

1:09:04Most people, as you said before, most people, athletes, celebrities, social media celebrities, burn out every now and then. And some even disappear because they say, I just can't take this anymore. Fuck that. Some even totally abandoned socials and therefore their career. But this never happened to you. So how did you manage to last and never burn out nor take a break in the last, I think, seven years you've been doing that? Yeah, yeah. wow seven years wow seven years that's a long time yeah it's uh i'm literally posting almost every day for seven years now that's crazy but yeah i mean i think if i didn't do a burnout it's because uh i invest also a lot of time into my my mental health like i try to to take care of myself i try to to disconnect i try i cannot always sometimes it's hard it's all come also to mental stability so you know you have people who's up to have a lot of burnout and who have like a lot of difficulties with stress of pressure or all these kind of things it's i don't know it's this i try to think if i have something that really helped me to not have a burnout but i don't i cannot find i just when i feel like really like it's too much I just slow down a little bit or sometimes I just plan my post in advance for example and I just post and I try to not spend time on my phone I try to disconnect a little bit or yeah I listen to my body and also my job I mean my main passion and who became my job as a professional athlete is to take care of my body and the body is linked with the mind so you cannot have a healthy body and stay on track and eat and keep on diet and training if in your mind you're not stable and not feel good So every time I start to feel like not good, I was, you know, slow down and I was thinking, okay, now I need to take care of myself.

1:11:02One day I disconnect. And it happens many times that, you know, one day I was posting many times on my story. It's Sunday, Sunday off, no phone. And I do contents, but I just, just the fact of putting my phone in plain mode, I still make some terms on just video, but just, but just the fact to be offline. You have no idea as influencers, how it's like peaceful. It's crazy. It sounds crazy, but when I took my phone for one day and I just turned off my phone, I'm like, I will not have any notification. I will not have any risk of a message who can be positive or negative. I'm just disconnected. I'm just now in the moment and I enjoy this moment.

1:11:42And just one day like this, and then you come back to your routine just after that, just one day, it's so good for your mental health. So I would say it's my biggest advice is just learn how to disconnect completely. and spend a day and not think about the before, after or online stuff and completely disconnect and just be in the moment with yourself or with someone else. Have you ever been to therapy? Yes, yes. Back in the days in Switzerland, I was watching, I was consulting a therapist. But linked to this stuff or do you say, I'm going to improve myself to get better at that? It's very personal, but one of my issues, i would say in the past it was it was my relationship with women so i had some um what to say that some um toxic attachment like i was never single i was always in a relationship i was jumping from a relationship to another relationship and i always had a different girlfriend i mean i was staying long terms with one but then i was if it was finished i was directly going with another one because i was thinking you know i will not be happy if i'm alone so i'm i you know i feel happy if I have a woman.

1:12:53And that was toxic because at this point I was thinking that my happiness was depending on relationship which is completely not true. You can be single and be the most happy person in the world. So at this point I realized that it was actually toxic because it was impacting my relationship negatively because it gave me, you know, when I felt like the relationship was not going well or it was maybe we were close to a broken or like this, I started to feel anxiety or feel like stressed or feel like depressed your entire life because you identify yourself with the relationship. and i was thinking why you know why i'm so impacted negatively by relationship you know one and this is how i started to force myself and i was like why when i'm alone i'm not happy you know and that's why i started to see a therapist at this time it was a very long time ago maybe 10 years ago and um no a little bit less than 10 years but then at this point i was just thinking i need to find a way to figure out what's the problem what's the cause what's the reason uh and fix this and spend time with myself and be find happiness find happy you know i mean just be happy on my own yes and after that adding the happiness i have to be happy with myself first alone and after that i can meet someone who's going to be an addition of my happiness who's going to make me even more happy but it's not my my happiness will not depend on this woman it's like it just this woman will make me more happy will make my life better but i will not be happy because i'm not there i'm still doing Yes, exactly.

1:14:15So I make this work and I work with a therapist and I think this is a final cause. And I can share that because no problem with share with that. But the problem was that my parents broke up when I was two years old, when I was a baby. And subconsciously, you know, this broke up and the fact that I didn't grow up with my mom impact me a lot, you know. Impact me in a way of I felt like abandoned by my mom. I felt like, I felt the miss, you know, the miss of my mom, all these kind of things. And I grew up with my dad. And this, when I was a baby, impact later in my earlier adult life because I had this attachment of woman, which was toxic, you know, because I was always looking to have a woman because I missed this woman side from my mom when I grew up.

1:15:05And I was always looking for this relationship and attachment to a woman. And that was really toxic. So when the therapist showed me that and we figured it out and we worked on that, it was fixed. And after that, it was just amazing. And my relationship was better also, like more healthy and less. I was not, for example, I can give you the best example. Why I noticed that it was very toxic? Because at this time, I was extremely jealous. I was possessive. I was scared. I was always thinking, oh, she's going to cheat on me if she leaves me or what she's doing. You know, I was always like stressed.

1:15:36And that was crazy. I was like, I don't have confidence in myself. And I was like, what's wrong? you know? So, and now I'm completely okay. Like, I'm not jealous. If a guy will watch my woman, I'm just like, just watch. You can, you can look at her. There's no problem. I know it's, I know she will not go. So what's the, what's the problem? And if she goes, you don't have any, you don't have any control on that anyway. Exactly. Like, what can you do? Nothing. It happens in the past. It happens one time, you know, I had an ex-girlfriend who cheated on me. Yeah. Yeah, of course it was, it's not a nice thing.