E71: Luke Belmar & Meow from Jupiter Exchange: How Crypto Will Stop the Banks from Stealing your Money

28:42It doesn't matter how hard you work. The government owns the means of production and they own your energy input and they own your energy output and all it is is a form of control that people have bowed down to and the less resources you have the more malnourished your society is the more distracted your society is the harder it is for you to fight against the theft that's taking place it's also really interesting because um um so you asked about moments that changed me earlier right so i was like it was actually a very interesting moment because I saw I was in the US previously, right? At some point, I saw the news about the bombings, the drone bombings in the Middle East.

29:23I was like, holy shit, that's where my tax money is going to. Holy shit. You pay like 50 % taxes, depending on the bracket. And I don't control that shit. My money is being used to bomb. I mean, I know it's a political statement, but I feel quite strongly about that. And I don't like war. I don't like it. but I have no agenda in that. So I feel like the whole text is really interesting because, and remember, for most 95 people, they don't even see that. They just take it before they even see the paycheck. That's very important, before they even see the paycheck. So basically it's a very strong statement.

30:04Now, what they were saying, your energy, your work doesn't belong to you, belongs to us, and we just how to use it. Right? Yeah, and I think that's a problem, you know? And so taxes is actually a way to actually make the people under illusion that the government, they are fine in government. But the reality is that the government can do whatever they want. That's how it works. So what's the answer? And so by that, I mean, again, to make it extremely, like, simple for people to understand. Maybe a key question is, why do people work? People work to one day. obviously people work because you know you want to be stimulated you want to have goals etc but the reason why people work is to one day potentially retire right what does retirement mean retirement means i accumulate enough assets so that one day the interests right or the return i get on these assets can cover my life costs right go this the problem with what we're talking right here is if my wage doesn't increase because of wage deflation, right?

31:11My wage doesn't increase at the same pace as money is being printed, the cost for me to acquire all these assets that are supposed to give me this return so I can retire one day becomes out of reach, meaning I need to work forever, right? And so the reason - That's what they want you to do. They want you to work forever because the elites do not quantify things in units of dollars. They do not quantify things in units of money because they understand that money is simply an illusion. They quantify things in human energy because human energy is what creates things. Human energies is what creates civilizations, creates buildings, creates societies.

31:45So they measure things in proportion to human energy. That's why they create fiat. It's the greatest illusion of all time. Shout out to the guys that created fiat. Geniuses, bro. Geniuses. Like, I'm not going to hate the game. Like, these guys, these guys finessed the entire world. And they created this thing out of illusion. And they said, okay, because back in the day, let's say we're in Egypt a couple thousand years ago. In order for somebody to build a pyramid, I would have to go pillage a village, go to another society, conquer them, bring them over as slaves and make them work. We can even take the United States in the 1900s, even the 1800s.

32:22And when you had these cotton fields and these cotton farms, they would basically have to force the slaves into working but that means your slaves are malnourished that means they they might be complaining there might be dissidents and instead of being like let me crack a whip over their back let me just create this false reality let me lie to them and make them work willingly for the next 70 years assuming that in some way shape or form they're going to have enough to retire we talk about the peasants in the 14th century when you had the feudal lords and the peasants, the peasants were more peasants than the peasants were back in the day.

33:02The peasants only worked about 140 days out of the year. The rest of the year, they kind of fucked off and did whatever they want. Today, people work 50 weeks out of 52 weeks for the next 60 years thinking that that's the norm, thinking that that's the standard. If you were in, let's say, a cycle of 400 years of slavery and you were born in year 212 of that 400 year cycle of slavery you would have no concept of what freedom is you'd have no understanding of what it means to be free autonomous working for yourself building your own ecosystem building your own society self-sustained with your own food you had would have no premise or understanding of freedom that's where we are today free fiat has created an illusion what we call the infinite sukuyomi right it's a concept from naruto it was really funny, which is the fact that you feel like you're living in a utopia, but when you dissect everything, you realize that you're just a glorified slave with a couple of things.

33:53Yeah, you might have Netflix, you might have a couple of things here and there, but when it's all said and done, you're not working for yourself. You're working for somebody else. So it's actually a really, really important point, right? It's like, so I have so many well-educated and well-to-do friends in America. And do you, I'm telling you, they're terrified, man. They're terrified to Breakout of the infinite sumunaki Why? Healthcare, insurance, right? And loans, right? We have created this system, right? Where people wouldn't even dare to question You know, and we're talking about And these are well-educated, extremely smart Extremely, quote-unquote, societal, successful people, right?

34:31They're terrified I'm telling you, they're terrified They're terrified of losing their jobs, right? Because the moment they lose their job No healthcare, right? and everything and stuff. And dude, the healthcare system kills you, bro. It's amazing, right? So I feel like we have created this system, right? Where people are really, deadly afraid, right? To break out of that infinite system. I think it's actually a big problem. So I feel like, and yeah, I think what's actually really, really, really important here is that we give people a way, right? To help them understand that, okay, it's all about freedom.

35:07And how do they gain their freedom back? because in every society where there's slavery colonialism actually guys what's really interesting here is if you study how the colonial masters kept their rule over India over Singapore over Malaysia it's super interesting there are all kinds of ways to create social status making you feel really good about yourself making you feel really horrible if you don't abide by their rules amazing amazing so many ways for you to feel like a terrible horrible miserable human being if you don't follow their ways. Do you want to give some examples of that and some examples of how people are made feel bad today by not following the rules?

35:47I mean, for example, this is so personal to me, bro. I grew up in Singapore, right? And Singapore is an English colony, right? And there was one thing, I mean, Lee Kuan Yew had this really great thing in the book, right? It's like his grandfather hated everything Asian. Hated it, right? Because his grandfather is basically, I think, his grandfather basically worked under the British administrator, right? And he was heavily rewarded for that, his good life and everything, right? But as a result, but as part of that training, right? You know, he was like, ah, everything about Asian culture sucks, right?

36:25Everything about, like, the British is great, right? And he taught that outwards, you know? So imagine a system, right, whereby the entire culture, generation of people, right? Imagine this, an entire generation of people, right? Being brainwashed to go like, that system is great. If I follow that system, I get status, I get this, I get that and stuff, I get everything. If I follow the other culture, right? I get nothing. I'm looked down upon. I'm terrible. I'm miserable. And that happens for generations, bro. Right? You know what I'm saying? It is kind of personal for me. Another example, finance is the language of the elite.

37:00Yeah. Finance is the language of the elite. you can compare finance to or banks or governments today to the time and era where you had the Holy Roman Empire. And the Holy Roman Empire was merely the utilization of religion as a weapon for mass control. But John Wycliffe, and I think it was the year 1611, King James translates the Bible into English. But before that, the peasants had to go to the church in order to be able to receive salvation or in order to be able to communicate with God, because back then the Bible, right, was the language of the elite. Today, finance is very much a strange language for the average person, for the average individual.

37:52It's very much like Latin, but it's very interesting because today we have the middleman, which is the bank. Back in the day, we had the middleman, which was the Pope. And anytime that you want to get rid of the middleman, the middleman gets angry. And the middleman will go to war to defend their middleman status, which is power. So you have John Wycliffe introduce the printing press. Technology, technology, which is the ability to rip apart the illusion and give people the necessary tools and information to understand that no middleman is necessary. So we go in 1611, the King James Bible gets translated into English, then the printing press gets introduced, so now it gets dispersed, and now you no longer need the church.

38:43So the Holy Roman Empire is gone. So what does the Holy Roman Empire do now? Well, now we have to force people, right? Force people through wars, through the Crusades, through the invasion of the Americas. By force, we're going to convert them. And that's what we're seeing today. We're seeing force trying to be used as a dominant factor for control. It's a pretty crazy time that we live in. But there's a lot of work to be done. And it all comes down to, one, educating individuals, showing them that the illusion is there. and three is the leaders have to have very little to lose. Little to lose.

39:26Very little to lose, which is a life of low consumerism because I have nothing dangling over my head that you can take because I'm not for sale. So you can't take my house. You can't take my cars. The only thing you can take is my life. Go for it. I don't care. But it's the risk that one has to take in order to achieve freedom. So when you have nothing to lose and everything to gain, you're a very dangerous person So that's actually back to that That actually answers the question that he was asking in the end, right? How do they make you feel bad? Okay, these days, right? Oh, you don't have a house?

39:58Oh, you don't stay in this fancy place? Oh, you drive for a Toyota? Oh, I can't date someone who drives something, right? Oh, what's your job? Oh, you work in this company? Oh, you don't have a job? No, seriously, I'm telling you, right? The amount of social stress, right? And you feel As someone who is Quote unquote Not successful in life Is miserable Especially for guys What's the definition Of success For males Today By the society And why does it Make no sense Oh It's not Because it doesn't Give you freedom bro Guys The problem with today's Expectation Especially for guys Is that You don't get freedom You know Like you don't have freedom Because you're trapped Into always What needing to be rich Needing to be successful Okay, so I take it back The problem is this You're not even trying to be successful You're trying to look successful And you're trying to adopt Somebody else's definition of success Precisely That's a really important point, right?

40:54It's like And remember Traditional society, right? Oh, where do you live? In New York, for example, right? You get so much status If you say, I want Goldman Sachs Ooh You get money You get opportunity You get parties You get lit Right? All that shit, right? You know? Oh, you work at Wall Street? Oh, wow, sexy. You know what I'm saying? That's how it works, right? And so - It's all social constructs. Precisely, right? So like, and you feel really bad, I'm telling you. It's like the society makes you feel really bad. So what you do is that you have no choice, but you will conform to society. And that's where you fall into this, what do you call it?

41:33The infinite sukuyomi, the infinite illusion. Suku. So the premise is now is one, redefining success. That's my next question. Which is what I call the symphony of success. What does success sound like to you? What does success sound like to you? What is the ultimate form of success? Your ability to do whatever you want to do, whenever you want to do it, however you want to do it. Pavel from Telegram, he did an interview recently with Tucker Carlson. And he said, I own no yachts. The dude's probably a multi-billionaire. I own no houses, I own no supercars it's not my lifestyle, I'm in the pursuit of freedom that's it because he understands what the ultimate form of success is which is it doesn't matter what you have if you can't really do anything imagine being in a prison cell with a nice, perfect you can be in a prison cell with a Lamborghini you can be in a prison cell with a nice couch with an air conditioning, you're still in prison because you're still bound to certain rules and to certain things that people are telling you define you so one it's breaking the stigma of what it means to become successful two is understanding that who gives a fuck what other people think even though it may be tough who gives a fuck and then three is understanding that you're going to have to sacrifice something in order to achieve freedom freedom is not free freedom is not free you're gonna have to fight for it and if you're not willing to fight for it you'll be a slave for the rest of your motherfucking life and you better deal with it.

43:02So true. So we're talking about crypto today, right? Because it plays a huge role in that. And for me, it's very simplistically, it's two aspects. The first one is to not, to be allowed to do whatever you want with your money, right? Not even talking about investment, talking about I own my money and I can do whatever I want with it, right? The second one is because there is definitely a wealth-building opportunity. And when I talk about wealth, obviously I don't mean to buy Lombos and Pateks and all that stuff, but building a certain amount of wealth plus being able to live simply is the key to freedom, or one of them, right?

43:46Can I share something here real quick? I feel like the reason why I think we're in the room together, right, both talking about both the freedom and society and crypto, right? It's because I do think there's actually a very big correlation. You know, I feel like, I feel like the, I would say that one of the best attributes that allow me to kind of survive hard times, right? Is because I was actually very free of consumerism, right? You know, like in, like a lot of people in, hear me out, right? It's about in bull markets, right? The number one tendency that people do is to buy stuff. Absolutely.

44:22Right? Buy houses, buy big cars and buy everything, right? And whether they buy it with cash or with debt, doesn't matter, right? They become beholden to a certain lifestyle. More importantly, image, right? The moment, okay guys, look at me, right? The moment you're short at a party driving a Ferrari, you can't go back. You know, you can't go back. You can't even take Uber anymore, right? The moment you fly business or first, you can't go back. Yeah. That's true. The moment you enjoy the status of like going first in line, you go, ah, peasant class, right? So I feel that what's actually really important here, right, about freedom is this, right?

45:04Now, crypto is very dangerous too because crypto is the most up and down thing you ever see, right? So what I've seen a lot of examples, right, is that people actually lose their freedom, right, because they become rich, right? And then they start forgetting what they were. You know what I'm saying? And again, beholden. So yes, crypto is possible to be free. And I can go into that later. But before we go on that, I just want to say that's a very big problem too because crypto does actually mean you're free. Your fundamental values determine if you're free. Are you beholden to society? Because again, think about it.

45:47right? If I get rid of crypto and start buying a whole lot of stuff, and you can argue, if you look at the three main characters that failed, right? Last cycle, SBF, Do Kwan, and Shuju, right? They all did that. You know, they all fell into the trap of power, money, and status, right? They fell into that trap, and they started optimizing for those things, power, status, and money, right? Think about it, right? Those guys, the reason why they died and failed is that in the last cycle at the top, right? They didn't go, hey, what's good for the world? They knew that. They started optimizing for their personal money, status, and power.

46:27And then that's where it went wrong, man. That's where everything went wrong, you know? So I think that's actually one thing that I want to do to clarify, right? So it's like, what's actually really important here is, okay, crypto itself doesn't make you free. Your values make you free. That's so important. Luke knows that, right? Luke knows that. That's so important. When you begin to evaluate consumerism, you understand the illusion that it is. How many cars can you sit in at once? One. How many beds can you sleep in at once? One. So why the fuck would I have 50 cars? Okay, perfect. If I have a super car that appreciates in value and it's a collectible, I completely understand it.

47:07But the intent, the reason as to why you do something is really important. I know so many rich guys in crypto, they're a bunch of fucking losers, dude. They're losers because all they have is money. And if money's all you have, you have nothing. Which makes me think about the question one of my good friends asked me the other day. He was like, essentially about this consumerism thing. He lives in Dubai, right? So it's all about consumerism here. He's like, Kevin, why are you doing all that stuff if it's not for the money? And people don't even realize you have money. Right? What's your answer to someone who tells you, why do you wear a fucking Zara t-shirt and some ons if you made millions or billions of dollars?

47:54What do they not understand? Well, what people don't seem to understand is that nobody gives a fuck about you. Like, when you're walking down the mall and you see all these people dressed with all these fucking million-dollar watches, $2 ,000 shoes. No, you've just fallen for the illusion that LVMH sold you of what it means to be successful. Nobody cares because everybody has a complex life with their own problems, their own difficulties, their own challenges. The last thing I'm going to be worried about is impressing some random person that doesn't really even care about me. Let alone when I die, none of these motherfuckers are going to my funeral.

48:29None of these people are going to take care of my mom or my family. So why would I care about what they have to think? News check. nobody cares reality check nobody cares about your problems nobody cares about what you wear nobody cares about what you think and if you're attracting a certain audience and if you're attracting a certain audience that all they're looking at is consumerism well that's not the type of audience that i'm trying to appeal to i'm trying to appeal to the people that actually understand that human values integrity character desire for freedom and the pursuit of happiness is the key to a successful life, not what you have or what you wear or who you are.

49:12Dude, I know so many people that have nothing and at the same time, they have everything. I know so many people that have everything and you look at them and they're just miserable. I don't want that. I'm not falling for that illusion. And you have the temptation, you know? Like you have the, we were talking in the car on the way here. And it's not that we don't enjoy nice things. Like, dude, we'll go spend$1 ,000 on dinner. Like we'll go and rent out a Rolls Royce. We'll go and buy a$100 ,000 watch. But that doesn't define me. My character is not involved with these things. I, of course, have been working for a decade, so I'm going to enjoy things in life.

49:45Absolutely. Even the fact that we have an iPhone. This is a luxury, right? This is a luxury. This is something that is in some way, shape, or form consumeristic. But it also comes down to does this thing define you? Is your character, why you buy this, involved into your character as an individual or are you utilizing it as a tool? That's all. Just to double down on that real quick. I think I don't want to sound hypocritical here. I think if I do well, I like to celebrate successors. I like to celebrate nice things and go for nice experiences. For sure. 100%. If I go on a date, I want to have a nice dinner.

50:26For sure. But the question becomes, do you get undefined by those things? Are you okay if you don't have those things? You know what I'm saying? I feel like that's actually the main thing because the moment I need to fight a certain way, eat a certain way, then I lose myself. I get defined by that. That's actually why it's very important for me is that even if sometimes you have nice things, you must always remember like simple you always survive no matter what what's the best way to get to that state of mind is it getting it all making all the mistakes losing it all getting humble and then be like okay now i understand or just or just or just stack up your resources and don't be a person that expends them because when people look at money when when when you go to to the store and you buy something, you're not buying it with money.

51:25You're buying it with the amount of time and energy that it took you to make that money. So you need to be very careful that you're not expending the amount of time and energy that you input to receive a resource into the illusion of consumerism. Stack up these things to achieve freedom. Stack up these things to help your family. Stack up these things to help society. Don't stack them up to make somebody else's dream a reality Because when you're buying that Louis Vuitton belt, when you're buying those Gucci shoes, you're making somebody else's dream a reality. That's all it is. They just sold you on an illusion.

51:56The goal is to take the energy, right, that you've been able to create, the money, the energy, and then utilize it to create the life of your dreams instead of just expending it left, right, and center. Because the goal is to take the energy that you've been able to amass, and we quantify it in dollars, in units, and utilize it towards achieving freedom as opposed to just letting it leak here and there. and ultimately you just end up being a bigger rat in the race so um um i think um um i think what what you were saying about not being a rat in the race is very important i think i mean i'll be honest man it's like i mean i've been crypto for a while now and that's like curse right you know and some cycles that do well some not do well right i think what really anchors me is i have no assets by the way i know i think the only thing i bought in the last like five years or anything is like a reasonable, a nice place for my parents.

52:49That's all. For your parents. Yeah, for parents. It's not that much. But I think, and then for me and stuff, I think I actually really try to live as basic as I can. Don't get me wrong, as I said, you enjoy when you do, but overall, I live very basic. I think it's very important because living in a very basic way, and Luke gives some shit for that sometimes. right? But I think it's like, you get reminded that, cool, I don't need this. I mean, when you go and eat in a hockey center in Singapore, right, for like five bucks, you're like, oh, okay, cool, I can survive on that, right? When you stay, when you go - I take him to Yaki Niko every time we go out, spend$500, and he's like, oh, this is nice.

53:34Then I'm like, I'm comfortable, like, okay, this is nice, right? But I think being able to both alternate between enjoying things, but also like, okay, I can do this, fine. And I mean, like nice things, but if he needs to,$5, Hockey Center, no problem. He can make it easy. And that's the key, right? He can survive, you know, doesn't matter. Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to take a short moment to introduce our partner, Mentor, who helps us make this show possible. Mental was created to hyperscale the Ethereum network with what we call a layer 2 that helps users like you and me transact much faster and at a fraction of the cost of the Ethereum network.

54:19Mental has over$2 billion in total value locked, has a mega treasury of$3.7 billion in Bitcoin, ETH and stablecoins, and has the largest eco fund of the industry with more than$200 million to invest into new projects that want to join the mental ecosystem. The team behind mental are extremely smart people who I personally trust with some of my money and who I personally know outside of crypto. We actually had Ignace Terenus and Jordi Alexander on this podcast, who both are key figures in the mental ecosystem. So I invite you to watch these two very candid and in-depth conversations to develop your own opinion.

55:01And please, please, please, if you enjoy this show, hit the like button, leave a comment in the comment section and subscribe to this channel. The more subscribers, the better the guests. Thank you so much for your help. And now on to today's episode survival so let's so i think we understand the kind of basic theory here so let's try to get into some like more concrete concrete stuff right because they're like oh man like okay i get it but now what what the fuck do i do right i'm 18 or 21 or 24 like i want to know what to do. So maybe one smart way or interesting way to start that is as you said, there is cycles in crypto right?

55:46Yeah, cycles, yeah. We've all been through multiple cycles and we've all made a lot of mistakes. So maybe we can go through and everyone who starts will make mistakes because that's how you learn, right? Even now, we talk about mistakes every day. Maybe we can go through a few key things that people should really, and they were we know they're not going to listen, right? Because everybody has their ego and is, I'm not like, you know. But maybe you can go through, you know, first one to cycle and say, had I known what I know today, I would have done things in a different fashion. And often it's just like in a much simpler fashion.

56:25And that's what works, right? Versus all the noise that you see online.

56:34crypto crypto and the cryptocurrency space asymmetrically rewards builders more than any other space in the world One. Two.

56:52Automation and the utilization of AI gives you the possibility and the ability to make money without you having to input work or input hours on a consistent basis. For the people listening that want to live a better life, that want to become richer, that want to become wealthier, that want to become more successful, start utilizing the tools and the resources to build things of value. You get paid in proportion to the difficulty of the problems that you solve. If you're broke, chances are you're not solving any problems. If you're poor, chances are that the problems that you're solving might be very small.

57:35The reason the person at McDonald's gets paid$12 an hour, it's not because they're not a person of value. It's because the value that they're providing in the marketplace is not very high. Anybody can flip patties. Anybody can flip patties. So you get paid in proportion to the difficulty of the problems that you solve. You want to put a man on Mars? Well, if you accomplish that, you'll get paid in proportion to solving that difficult problem. So identify a problem in the marketplace. identify a problem that you're able to solve become the best person able to solve it understand that whatever it is that you're trying to solve needs to be in high demand because obviously you know there has to be supply demand in order for something to have value and then become the best at doing it become the best at solving the problem most people want to become wealthy out of a shit coin they just want to gamble their way to success success in my opinion needs to be planned.

58:29It needs to be calculated. And if you want to have longevity, you need to be able to solve problems on a consistent basis. And what I, I was sitting with the former son, the son of the former president of Singapore, last name Ong, and he comes into the studio and we're chopping it up and he, and he looks at me and he's, he's very excited because he has about, he's built about 2000 real estate projects in Malaysia, Thailand, and Singapore. And he looks at me and he says, Luke, you know what? Business is about solving problems. And when you solve problems, that's where profit comes most people want profit without solving problems i'm in the business of solving problems because money is a lagging indicator of success money doesn't just show up because what you're doing today works we've been in this game for how long he's been in the game for a decade now he's understanding and tasting you know money and in value and able to cut checks and invest tens of millions of dollars into product development but this is a lagging indicator of doing the right thing over an extended period of time and solving problems over an extended period of time and the market will reward you i think um it's it's can i of course i i feel like just to jump in on that real quick and just continue on it real quick is that um man it's like if there's one thing i would share right i think it's so important right is that everyone like Everyone focuses on the peak, right?

59:54I don't focus on the autumn high, man, or the peak or high success, right? The one thing I learned is no, man, you want to focus on the bottom, right? You want to focus on the surviving at the bottom, right? Because the bottom, the bear, the bottom, the depression is where the winners get made, right? It's actually really, really important. As someone that is trying to Don't As someone who's trying to Kind of really be in this game Focus on longevity Focus on learning Focus on surviving Because if you survive long enough You learn enough You will win I'll give some context on that Let me give you a example If you're a bit of California The California, San Francisco The sequoia trees Huge-ass trees Fucking massive And then like huge trees And then you can just stand in the event And I was reading about how they did it So what happens?

1:00:51So every few decades there will be a big fire And fires are normally bad for trees But what does fires do? So what does fires do? The fires are great for those big trees Why? Because number one They clear out all the junk All the small trees and shit They clear out the pests and the insects They clear out the foliage So that more sun can shine too right and of course there's less competition for stuff right so basically if you manage to survive so the trees that manage to survive the forest fire they do great they do amazing right keep growing right now so how do they survive that stuff right now firstly so so the redwood trees three things right number they're big enough right they have enough support and foundation so when the fire comes they can survive the second thing is they have enough moisture in the woods, right?

1:01:46So you don't just dry down and burn up. And secondly, that resin, R-E-S-I-N, in the wood, right? So that's like to burn, right? I was like, I was reading that, I was like, holy fuck, this is like the perfect recipe for crypto. Holy shit, right? This is the answer to crypto, man. It's like, because in crypto, there always can be fires, always. Trust me, guys. Like, no matter how good you think the market is, fuck the super-psychotesis, man. Fuck that shit. That shit is the most toxic and poisonous narrative of a contact, man. No, there's always going to be five years, right? And what you want to do as an individual, as a project, as a person, right?

1:02:21It's going to be ready. And how do you be ready? Man, the Redwood Tree. The Redwood Tree is a great example, right? Number one, you want to be strong support, right? You want to have a lot of support structures, right? Whether it's good, and I don't, whether it's like you want to wear good friends or good friends who counsel you when you are down, capital to survive, sufficient liquidity, right? Not so much leverage. Which, whatever it is, right, just make sure you have enough to survive on, right? Now, secondly, the material, the resin, right? You actually want to make sure you work on things that are not too fragile, anti-fragile, right?

1:02:52Now, that would just burn easily, right? Now, and thirdly, and the most importantly, is that you need enough liquidity, right, to survive any mountains, right? I was like, so I feel like that's actually the one thing that I would tell annual work in the space, right? It's like In bull markets There's always this Rush To try to capitalize Right You know Yeah go for it Go for it Have fun Learn Make your money Right Do your meme coins Whatever Right But remember The fire is coming It's a long game Long game And what you want to be ready Is that You want to be ready So do not So in summary Do not Optimize for one cycle Don't do that shit Right Optimize for being around For the next five cycles okay that's critical i think you know what me i was telling me is when when founders look at token price they always look at the top of their token price as opposed to looking what is your floor price what is the base level of your price that is that is that is your price it's not whether you spiked from one dollar to ten dollars or from ten dollars to a hundred no what is your floor place where is your stability that is your metric your metric isn't your peaks your metric is your valleys, and if you can sustain that, you can win the long-term game.

1:04:07Look at the top coins. Bitcoin, Ethereum, Swana, whatever, right? And I was deep in the trenches at Swana$8, right? I knew exactly what went down, right? There was a strong community and ecosystem faith, including Vitalik, right, who supported Swana at that point, right? And from there, it can grow again, right? Because from there, because you know diamond hands, right? Like, guys, how does diamonds get formed? Under pressure, right? Is it possible to be a diamond hand if there's no pressure? Nah, no fucking way, right? So basically when the price goes down, pressure, pressure, pressure, compressed, diamond hands formed.

1:04:43So the question is, okay, as a project, can you as a project, can you be diamond handed? Can you build a commute diamond hands? And then as an individual investor, do you know what you're willing to be diamond hand on? Right? Because a lot of people that do is they buy high-serve, will always right you know right always yeah i mean that's that's why you look at pudgy penguins and the success that they had is because of the pressure that the community had to go either if it's just up only right then you have you have no sort of no sort of pressure that stabilizes the community that forms the community i mean we go from from the from new york times to basically almost dead and it takes two years of bear market to build it to to be able to sustain and today it's the best project the best nft project in the world simply because it's been able to survive the pressure over an extended period of time and the thing is with crypto the pressure is really fucking intense intense it's fucking it's really intense intense man so if you can get through it if you can get through it then then then the future looks bright but you have to be able to sustain it.

1:05:53And if you crack under pressure, then you don't deserve the rewards. And over here, I just want to say a big thanks to my community, my Jube community, my caddis. I love you guys, man. I think after Jube launch, I mean, I think we built a community over years, the product, but there's no token, right? You know, and obviously in the first like month or so after token launch, things were rough, right? We're getting fired every day. We're getting fired every day. Like, I mean, like all the big influencers are fired in our shit. I wanted to talk about that, actually, because we're saying that there's fires in the bear market, right?

1:06:28When it's hard, depression. But there is also fires when things are going really well, right? And which means that there's fires all the time, which means that people, again, look at success in the very wrong fashion. and it makes success much less glamorous to people, which is what they should understand, right? If you want to become really successful, you need to understand that every day is a freaking pain or almost every day is going to be pain. Just to answer the question and to finish my earlier thought, is that I think that's actually where friends are important. Friends are really, really important because pain becomes fun when you do it with friends.

1:07:11Seriously. I mean, guys, I feel like that's actually what I'm very grateful for because even though the early going of Jupe launch was PATH, but I'm very grateful, man. I'm so happy to be working through with everybody, right? You know, like my community members were there every day, who were supportive even when, because there was a lot of people who knew who we were. They worked with us, right? They were part of us. They see how we work. They see how we communicate. They know we're real, so they're there, right? And I'm enormously grateful to them. And that was fun for me, right? Even amount of fun and everything and stuff But having that support was fun for me, right?

1:07:46And Luke was there, right? From the launch He was extremely supportive Right? Even when people were fighting us and stuff And also a lot of other people, right? Super grateful to them, right? And I think So I feel like What's actually really, really important here Is to Is to Kind of have a core Group of friends And community And people Who know you And believe in you, right? You know And you don't betray their trust You work with them You know communicate with them, you're open with them, you're transparent with them. And then you work together on things. You know what I'm saying? So I feel like that's actually what I think, I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't consider us successful, by the way, just to be clear.

1:08:23Okay, I think we build something interesting, I lost the way to go, right? But I think what we are doing now is that I think we have a chance to build something together with everyone, right? And that's what I'm excited about, you know? Yeah. So we've been talking about building, right? building building yeah but first i think what's interesting and important to understand is that not everyone wants needs to be an entrepreneur building a giga company right you can also be successful in your own term by providing value without providing the worth of dollar value that is building i i i i i think me and luke takes a very liberal idea of building right you know like I think that traditionally people think of building as building a company of your own, whatever, right?

1:09:12No, building value. Like at Jupyter, for example, it's like so many problems to solve, right? And then we're always looking for new people to solve new things, right? And there's so much things you can build in. I think Web3 is the most inclusive space to build anything. I think it's amazing. Yeah, sorry, sorry, let me clarify real quick. Absolutely, absolutely. To go back to wrapping up the point where we're talking about FUD, what's funny to me is the people that do the least are always the ones that want to talk the most. I was in Bali. I had an event for Capital Club there. And I had this man who brings this kid who's about 24 years old.

1:09:50Not a kid, but 24 years old. And he wants to come and check out Capital Club. And he feels entitled. He's a big fat dude, bald, depressed, bad attitude. And he feels like he's entitled to just come into the event because his son paid for it. And I'm like, no, well, you have to pay for your ticket just like everybody else. If not, you can't get in. And I, and I, and he started just, you know, talking shit saying, you know, like capital club, this is garbage. Why is somebody going to pay$300 to come and network? Networking isn't how you make money. Networking isn't how you build businesses. And I, for the first time I saw what a hater looked like.

1:10:28I saw what a loser that talks on the internet looked like. And I just laughed because I'm like, I don't care about these people's opinion. When that happens often in crypto, there's a lot of opinions and it usually comes from the bottom. It usually comes from the little gremlin trolls under the bridge that have a lot to say, but when you put them in the action, they can't compete. So for the builders, for the people that are in the trenches, remember that, yeah, you're going to get the bullets sent at you, but you also have to remember who's on the other side of the screen. And it usually is somebody who's not worth considering.

1:11:04It's not an opinion that's worth observing. And bro, I look at the best athletes in the world. I look at the best entrepreneurs in the world. They get shit on all the time. You look at the likes of Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, LeBron James, Michael Jordan. You look at Steve Jobs. You look at Henry Ford. You look at the top entrepreneurs in history. They all got shit on. it's part of the equation and if you can outstand that pressure and understand that with integrity you can build dope shit you don't really have to worry about the opinions and the fear uncertainty doubt that is cast upon you by some little bullshit tweet and oftentimes a lot of builders they forget the amount of love that they get you know and they always focus and they always focus on that.00001 % shit post because they're so aggressive but the love is just so much so much deeper in the end and you materialize it through sitting down with your community like meo said uh listening to them and then never betraying their trust and building that out long term so so so to to to that point right it's like i think um you can understand fight in two words right you can understand you can um you you really have to use the fight properly okay because um it's actually really important that you use the fight and try to understand Okay, is it legit?

1:12:21Is it not true? Is it true? But you take the key things. Take the personal out of the fun. Very, very important. Take the personal out of the fun. Understand mock psychology. Understand misinformation. Understand sometimes it's real information. Sometimes it's truth in there. So I think what you want to do is just simple. So you handle fun in three ways. Number one, you've changed that process. Number one, no, I'm serious, man. I got a pretty good idea. right number one you take the personal of it right you do not allow yourself to be destroyed by far right very important and the and the and the second thing to and the second thing you do is that you go hey all right is this missed just the first you say you're saying you don't allow that but like how concretely do you do that do you think you build like with higher testosterone level do you do something no you sleep you sleep you sleep people sleep is underrated i think we talk about drugs and everything, I think sleep is underrated.

1:13:15Sleep is the best. You see a fart, go to sleep. I'm not kidding. I'm serious. You see a fart, go to sleep. You know? Yeah. Just wake up and be fine. I'm not kidding. That's the best. Concretely, guys, go to sleep. Okay? And then secondly, secondly, is that you figure out, you learn what is misinformation. Because a fart is often something that happened, someone taking things that are out there, right? And spreading it, right? And memeing it, right? So don't get angry. Understand the game. Don't hit the game, right? You can choose the hit on him for doing something, but understand the game. He's like, oh, this is how it works.

1:13:50So take that as a lesson to learn, right? If you go into a fight, you get punched in the face. Do you cry about it? No, you don't. Oh, what did I do that a lot of someone punched me? Right? You always take responsibility. Great. So second, take responsibility, right? realize that if you got punched in the face right you can cry about him punching your face but truth is that you let him punch in the face so you did something right you didn't communicate properly you were careless right something right so that's the second thing to do right so you you you learn that lesson you got punched it's painful take it take the fucking lesson you already got punched right take the fucking lesson right and then the and then the set and third thing you do is that okay, you talk to your community, right?

1:14:34Because your community gets affected by FAT too, right? They get affected by FAT, right? And then what you want to do is very simple, right? Is that you don't want to do that Do Kwan. Do Kwan handled it wrong, right? Do Kwan basically got his community to bully away the FAT, right? Don't do that, right? Never rally your community to try to block off FAT. No, no, no. Address it with them, right? Discuss them with it, right? Go like get on a Twitter page. got on a Twitter space, right? Got on a Discord thing and show them a fucking tweet, right? And say, this is this, what they're saying. This is how I think about it.

1:15:06What do you guys think about it, right? So I feel like then there builds trust, right? There builds trust, you know, right? But then if you just blanket, you ignore it, or if you ignore it and stuff, or if you ignore it, or if you pretend it doesn't exist, or you try to rally your supporters or your token holders to kind of shoot them, right? Then you are not reacting properly, I think, you know? Yeah. And then, yeah, So I think it's a cycle that I've kind of done, you know, right? And I'm quite comfortable with the cycle, you know? Yeah. And last but not least, call Luke, you know? Hey, Luke.

1:15:38No, no, he was helpful. He was helpful. No, he was helpful. Seriously, I think he knows, man. It's like, there was something I got further really, really hard. I was really sad. He reminded me, man. He's like, dude, chill. People love you. I think that was good, man. Thanks. Thanks, bro. I haven't said thanks yet, but thanks. You're welcome. And the thing is, at the end of the day, if you're a builder, you need to understand like dopamine, right? And people like new features, people like new products, but they always want to know what's next. They need to know what's next. And they need to know why should they continue with you when there's so many shiny objects out there.

1:16:08Yeah, seriously. There's so many shiny objects, right? Because that's where you're competing. You're competing for attention. You're competing for people to stick around in your community. Just like countries compete with keeping people inside of their states, inside of their provinces, as opposed to expatting or becoming immigrants and going and traveling somewhere else. So you need to incentivize your people in casting a vision. There's a verse in the Bible that says, without vision, people perish, right? So being able to cast a vision in a way that people understand and people sustain with you long-term is extremely important.

1:16:40And that's where leadership income comes in. That's where communication comes in. And that's where transparency comes in. If you can master all three of those as a leader, your people will rally with you and they'll stick with you long-term. And the longer they stick around with you, it's like cement layers, right? they solidify. The longer they stick around with you, the less incentive they have to go somewhere else because now it's no longer putting my chips on the table and betting on somebody. It's more a level of relationship that is based off of trust and based off of longevity, which is the name of the game that we've been talking about.

1:17:14Longevity, longevity. I think it's so important to, I think, you know how we're talking about how most people optimize for the peak, right? So similarly, a lot of people over-optimized for attention. Because, um, they, no, no, look with me, look with me, okay, look with me. I know it's a controversial opinion, right? Because I think everyone's talking about how important attention is, right? Now, but how about safety? You know, people want to feel safe too, right? Now, for example, if you're a girl, do you always go out with the most exciting guy? Yeah, of course, sometimes, right? You know, right?

1:17:44But it was not safety, but it was not safety too, right? You want to know that he won't do anything to you. Weird. They don't do, right? So I feel like what was actually really important here, is that you kind of like, you know, you kind of focus, you kind of want to let people know what's up and that's the attention game, right? But also let them feel safe, right? You know that you're here, you're not going to run anything, you're there, there are problems you talk to them, right? And guys, it's not easy. It's not easy. It's not easy to go to a community and go, yeah, it's not great. It's not cool.

1:18:12You know what I'm saying? But I think if you can do that, then over time, I think people feel safe and there's a security, right? So I think for us, I think it's always about these two things, right? How do we rally attention and provide safety? You know, things like this. Because when people feel safe with you, they will feel much better at promoting you. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, everything. I agree. Yeah. Safety. You talked about many shiny objects, right? Thousands of new coins every day. So obviously it's really hard to, I don't want to say compete with that, but we have to be objective and know that a lot of the people, if not the majority of the people are in crypto to make money right first they're in crypto to make money and so until now we talked about being a builder but we have to talk about being an investor also why because all of us are also investors for sure and so probably people will want to do both so i think that again like we understood on the builder side you can build a project or be part of a project right as an investor probably one of the most important things to understand is that you don't want to get wrecked because if you get if you don't have chip like to to play the game basically you can't play the game the next time right so how would you advise people to construct a crypto portfolio not to optimize for the thousand x but just to survive because what we've been talking about since the beginning is survival right one you need to bet on teams you can't bet on what you see going up on coin gecko when i started buying bmb in 2018 2000 yeah 2018 for two dollars i was betting on cz when I bought PancakeSwap in 2020 after doing Clubhouse with CZ and him talking about the PancakeSwap team you bet on builders you bet on people because people are the ones that carry projects one two you need to bet on narratives and trends you do not want to be out here in a place that has no attention and no liquidity so that's the first part the second part is understanding where a certain project is in their cycle.

1:20:36Are they in their inception stage? Are they in the area where it's just getting built? Are they already listed on Binance, which tends to signal a top or tends to signal a area of less opportunity? And realizing how venture capital works, how raising money works inside of crypto projects and how token allocations take place and realizing that once projects usually hit big listings that's when token unlocks take place that's when big vcs dump on your ass and the goal is to you not get wrecked you need to be as far right to the as close to the builders as possible as early on as the stage as possible and betting on those individuals i very rarely will go out and place a token allocation on something that's already listed on coin market cap why Because it's probably not at its inception stage.

1:21:32The risk is a lot higher. And with crypto, your portfolio can get nuked 50 % in two days, right? So my objective is I need to find low risk, high reward opportunities, which means low market cap, quality teams, and teams that are building upon a strong narrative and a strong trend that will inject liquidity in order for my portfolio to continue to perform well. and most people they are out here buying when everybody else is buying they're out here buying in the bull market they're out here buying when the taxi driver's you know checking his his uh stock portfolio is his crypto portfolio while he's driving as opposed to buying when the blood is out and buying when the candles are green and pumped and buying out of fomo tends to be a recipe for a disaster.

1:22:21And Warren Buffett said it best, but he talked about it in the stock market. I think it applies to investing in general, is that the concept of investing, and if you want to win in the investment game, you need to understand patience. Because wealth is usually transferred from the impatient to the patient. And if you build with long-term people, then there's a high probability of success. That's why the people that get wrecked, you usually sit down with them and you ask them, what do you have on your portfolio? Well, what do you know about this token? What's the utility behind it? Oh, there's something that's worth$300 million market cap.

1:22:59Well, how much revenue do they generate? Oh, five grand? That seems like a price discrepancy right there between the market cap and the actual value proposition of the project. I think these are a couple of things that people need to be looking at and understanding that the markets will be here forever. They're not going anywhere. There's always more opportunity. You don't have to chase opportunity. You need to attract opportunity by positioning yourself in the right rooms. That's a key element. Actually, Jordi Alexander, he was on the podcast, and one of the things he was saying is, in crypto there is so many opportunities that the only thing you have to do is to say no to opportunities when it feels like they're too late.

1:23:36Because there's going to be so many others, your only job is not, hey, I need to find all the best opportunities. I need to find a few ones early enough so I don't get wrecked, right? And if I feel that I'm too late, I just say no, because there's going to be others, right? And the last part with that is all it takes to build a fantastic portfolio is a few well-calculated bets. You don't need a thousand trades. You don't need to be out here day trading on one-minute charts. You're going to get fucking wrecked. You're trading against algorithms. You're trading against quants. You're trading against people that are market makers.

1:24:11You're trading against people that have order books and they can see the flows. That's a very dangerous game. I want to play a couple high sizable bets with winning teams, Jupiter, for example, with winning builders, with people that I trust. And before I allocated multi seven figure play with Jupiter, my entire premise was I want to sit down with the homie. I want to see what his vision is. I want to see what he thinks. He's never talked to me about price. He's never talked to me about anything except how many users he wants to onboard in crypto. And that's the mission in Rally that I'm that I'm able to put forth.

1:24:46Now, I did the same thing with Lucanets and Pudgy Penguins, and I mentioned this to you. The name of the game is coming in and getting involved with projects and teams when the blood is in the streets, when everybody's fighting it, when everybody is running for the door. That's when you want to find the winning teams and the people that have a long-term vision and rallying behind them, sticking behind them, and empowering them to move forward. so to challenge a bit here or kind of reframe not everyone is you so not everyone can go to meow before the token launches and say hey i want to get involved right no no no no no no no no no i disagree just to be clear i disagree and i'll tell you no no no no no no no no no no no no no luke was involved in jupiter afterwards right he would interview and stuff but after after a lot which is very important.

1:25:37Yes. After, no, no, no, not before. Just to clarify that. No, no, so here's the beauty. With crypto, you have the ability to talk to founders. You can get into the Discord, you can get into the communities, and you can get to know them, right, at a personal level. Just because I'm Luke Belmar, and just because I go and I have the opportunity to sit down in person, you still, as a community member, look how many people from your community have become either team members or become moderators. Yeah, many, many, many. A ton, I think you can get involved, absolutely. Many, many, many. Or I would say, that's why I was more saying reframe, I would say if you can't, for some reason, there is an amazing opportunity, which is these cycles.

1:26:17There are bear markets where you have these amazing teams that have been building amazing things at very depressed price. And you can go in there and talk to the people and look what's happening. And for example, Solana is a great example. And probably, I mean, a lot of other projects that are doing really well now that will do well, there is crazy opportunities during bear markets so much so that there is even some guys another guy who was on the podcast arthur chiong from defiance capital one of the things he's focusing on is liquid investing what does that mean i just buy tokens that are already listed right why because i can get them in a bear market it's much more liquid i can sell them whenever i want and i can get them an amazing an amazing price because of these cycles right so again like even if you can't get in at the very beginning, there is opportunities afterwards because there is these crazy cycles where you can go in there and talk to people because during a bear market, no one is looking.

1:27:12Almost no one is looking. So the founders are going to be basically greeting you with open arms. Would you agree with that? That as an investor in crypto, you have the ability to communicate with the founding team so much more than... Amazing, amazing, amazing. And you can get involved with your investments at a bigger level than you would in any sort of traditional market. Since when can you message the CEO of PG &E and P &G and say, hey, how's it going, buddy? No, no, fucking way, not possible, right? Because again, I feel like in many, many ways, right, most companies have layers and layers and layers and layers of hierarchy, right?

1:27:46You know what I'm saying? But what I found to be very interesting, for example, in the bear market, right, last cycle, man, totally was there. No, seriously, totally was famous. He was on Twitter 24-7, right? We'll be hanging out somewhere and he'll be like on his foot, Fuck you, man He's fucking adding to Twitter He's replying to everybody on Twitter Versus talking to people You know, right And I feel like I feel like And for me and stuff I do a Twitter space Every Every Once or twice a week Right, you know I let everyone talk Right, I get to speak Right, you know Everyone can message me in the Discord Right, I get a notification Right, don't spam me Okay, thank you But then But then But then I try to respond Right, there are problems You know what I'm saying Right I think, for example, I'm very, very often someone be like, hey, this is not working, that's not working.

1:28:33I'm like, I have to fix it. So I feel like that's actually a very important thing about crypto. And it relates to the whole building concept. Because now you have a chance to actually get involved in building something, in being part of something that you just had no possibility. So as a result, if you actually get involved in the community, you, right? You can actually get to understand the project at a much deeper level that was never possible before, not possible before, right? And also realizing that even these projects that have multi-billion dollar market caps, they still need a lot of help.

1:29:08Like a lot of help. And there's so many holes and gaps in a lot of these projects that if you can understand and identify the problem, you can come and not only protect the capital that you've invested into these projects, but also build with them. And you'd be surprised if you provide enough value, you could find yourself with a seat at the table. And it's the highest, they don't care about your skin color. They don't care about your religion. They don't care about your background. They don't care if you have a little NFT, PFP, or they don't care about any of these things. They don't care about whether you're a KYC or an Anon.

1:29:42They care about, can you provide value? And if the answer is yes, then you can be welcomed into the seat of the table. And I've found no other market that gives you that same opportunity. You can be a person from a random village in Pakistan, India, and find yourself moderating one of the top communities, getting paid thousands of dollars, getting paid in tokens, getting paid in USDT, whatever it may be, simply because the crypto opportunity and the asymmetrical bet is so much higher than any other space in the world. So open, man. You nailed it, man. So open, man. It's like literally, at least for us, I can speak to that, right?

1:30:17Let me speak to that. is that we don't care. It can be a cat or a dog or a ghost. We don't even care. We don't even know who they are in many ways. But do you spread good energy? Do you add value? Can you take leadership? And it's actually very valuable for us. And it's so valuable that we created a new idea called Decentralized Workgroups. These are teams that work closely with the community and the team, but they're funded by the DAO. right so Jupiter so as for Jupiter right Jupiter set aside like 10 million US dollars right you know USDC and Bahari million right you know over like as a yearly budget and stuff for work groups and grants right so what does that mean it means that for example there are two work groups now they work with the team and the community on driving a lot of different things right and then for example one is called CWG and they do a lot of the core processes and community engagement and the launchpad processors.

1:31:17Another one is the Uplink workgroup who does the weekly course, amazing job, amazing value creation. And what happens is that they will actually get funded by the DAO. So the DAO actually has, so they'll go to the DAO and say, hey, you know what, I need this amount of USCC as operational budget. I need this amount of JOOP as long-term alignment. And they get or don't get it depending on the DAO. So I think what is actually amazing Web3, and ideally we have a lot more of this coming up, right? So I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I think it's beautiful in Web3 that you have an economic model where we are able to create a lot of value via the process of money creation.

1:31:59And it's done in such an open way that anybody that wants can actually participate in it, right? And get to learn about the community and think about it, right? To see if I invest more. And it's up to the individual, right? to pick the communities that he wants to be involved in, that his efforts will be sufficiently rewarded in, and he wants to be involved in long term. I think that's amazing. That's so important, and it's so counterintuitive for people who don't understand this space, because we grew up, went to school, following a certain system where you need to have that many years of experience to just go for an internship or to be allowed to go to this job, and then you have to do that many years to become a manager and all that stuff.

1:32:42Whereas in crypto, it's all value-based. How much value can you provide? And then as you said, you can get a freaking seat on the table much faster than you thought. So the way we just share a bit more on that, right? For a contributor point of view. So at Tributor, what I try to do is that we want to make the contributors feel as valued as possible through a variety of mechanisms, through roles in Discord, through work groups, and through grant recipients, everything. So basically I think what I want to do is that we're going to create an extremely open way For people to get involved in the way they want And not just get capital But also get recognition And it's really cool if you think about it Because it's not me who's bestowing it It's more like the community that's bestowing to you And it's so cool, it's so fantastic It's such a great way to live and work

1:33:37What are a few of your favorite teams in the space in terms of projects they're building and why do you like them so much? Because that's one thing that people want to hear, right? It's not just really, hey, you should invest in this token because obviously there's a certain price, but it's more, what are a few teams that are building something that's really interesting? It's a great question. I'm way more, I wish, yesterday at the DJ meetup, so many people ask me what to buy, right? No, no, seriously, so many people do. it's such a wasted opportunity because you could ask me what what i like as a what team i like you know i'm saying i like i i agree i agree i think i think people have the wrong skew the wrong perspective perspective is completely skewed as to how you can maximize uh your time and how you can gain as much valuable uh as much value for your energy and your input and it really comes down to like i said betting on teams this bull run i'm betting on three three teams four teams one is obviously the i'm a co-owner and pudgy penguin so i'm betting on on luca and i'm bidding on nfts really being able to to become a catalyst for community building obviously i love the jupiter team i understand meow i understand their ethos i understand what he's in the game for and we're aligned in ethos and we're aligned and we're not only aligned in ethos but we're also aligned in what the future of what we want the world to be so you have to be able to band with people that you see how you want the world to lay out three is i i love the telegram team i love pavel i love what he stands for i love the i love the application i love decentralized communication i like the the lack of the lack of uh the lack of focus towards pleasing governments and really being able to give people freedom of speech and the infrastructure that's being built on there and then obviously i have a couple investments here and there that are going to play out and do really well but those are the three teams that i'm i'm really focused on on collaborating with cats glitches bing um yeah i i think um i i think um i think um i think uh i think many people like meme coins right and i don't i i can't say anything about any specific meme coin right But I would say this, I would say that like, like get involved in the community.

1:36:00You know, there's no, that meme coins love new community members. Right? Because they need that. Because the whole, every meme coin is built from community. Right? So I feel like if you want to be involved in a meme coin, get involved in the community. Right? See what it's like. I personally found that there's the highest correlations between like communities that are really strong. Right? You know, I'm able to kind of like do the right things to get attention. Right? You know, that's important. You know how we talk about two things, right? safety and attention, right? Make sense? Right? Safety and attention, right?

1:36:30So I think two things. I think, again, I wouldn't name names, right? But I think what I observed, and many people are coming into the meme coin game now, right? But I think obviously we've been tracking the meme coin game for a long time, right? You know, for a long time, because we're Jupiter, we track everything in meme coin, right? So, and also I, and we just don't just track them, right? But actually I also work very closely with often the teams involved. so I'm able to I'm also a target of a lot of attention spamming right so I get to see the marketing strategies play out so I'll say two things I'll say that Memecoin Center and Duel they're able to both provide safety for the members so people know that oh they won't get rocked they trust the team they trust the developers they trust that or they can't get rocked or whatever right but there's also attention they're able to go out there and get attention you know via creative marketing strategies, what creative means, just creative vibe, creative narrative.

1:37:33So I think you want to look for these two things. Which communities do people feel safe? And they will just run away at first glance. But they're also able to provide attention. That's how I think about it. And then you guys are going to feel it. Just to challenge a bit on that, there's two examples that are doing, one is doing amazingly well, the other is doing pretty well, where there were big problems in the beginning. Dogecoin, 10 years ago, there were problems with the developers. PP, last year. PP started really well, then there was some issues with a bunch of the team of the developers that just sold some tokens and everything was massive FUD, and it still ended up working out better.

1:38:19So my opinion on there is culture, right? So Dogecoin became culturally relevant. And you need to be able to take content, community, and distribution of that content in that community. And eventually that becomes culturally relevant. The first four letters of culture is cult, right? So if you want something to sustain over an extended period of time and you want somebody to have longevity, it has to go through some period of FUD. It has to go through some period of hardship. and if it can withstand that fire then it has a higher chance of surviving so whether it's a meme coin or whether it's a project or whether it's a stock or whether it's an investment that you have it doesn't really make a difference you need to have distribution marketing you need to have content you need to have community and you need to understand that the basis of culture is building that cult loyal following that backs you through thick and thin and that is willing to put their skin in the game to see that project, that idea succeed?

1:39:18I mean, your two examples, Doge and Pepe, right? I mean, I didn't track Pepe that well, but I understood it a little bit. And I think it's the same story, right? It's like when things go badly, right? Trust gets lost, but are they able to rebuild it, right? Is the community able to rebuild it, you know, right? And for every example that works out, there are maybe five or 10 that doesn't work out, you know, right? I feel like that's actually why I think if you believe in the community and it's down, invest in it. That's interesting. And what I would say is if you're a team member, if you're a builder, never make irreversible mistakes.

1:39:58Never make irreversible mistakes. There are things that communities are willing to forgive and forget. And there are things when you fuck with somebody's money, there's irreversible mistakes. and then there's mistakes that are not irreversible. Your job as a builder, your job as part of a team, as a project, is to always be okay with making mistakes. You're not gonna be perfect, but always focus on making mistakes that have some sort of reversibility factor attached to them. If your TGE is bad, if your FDV is kind of whack, if you're taking in VC money and letting the VCs dump on your holders, if you're not showing up, There are certain things that the community will just say, fuck this guy, fuck this team, I'm out.

1:40:45And we see it time and time again because people make irreversible mistakes and irreversible damage. So focus on just building and then be in a situation whereby if you make mistakes, just make sure that they're mistakes that you can come back from and take your time in the decision making process. Because just like crypto is also a great place of opportunity, it's also a place that if you fuck up really really bad they will not forgive and they will not forget so focus on is that that true is that really true because i found in crypto people have attention like yeah yeah but i think they're the memory like people just want yes i mean you you do have you know you do have like scammers that have been around for a few cycles and they can go and put out a token address and they raise 30 million dollars but i think that also comes with the fact that there's new people coming into the space and they'll trust a high a high count following although trust a pfp that you have although trust certain things but as a general consensus i think that as a builder focus on on just building if you you're gonna fuck up it's inevitable you're gonna have fun it's inevitable you're gonna have people that don't like you it's inevitable but just focus on taking care of your community and your community will take care of you I feel like that's true I think I don't think it's any Like finance thing But I think that last statement Is true Right I feel like there needs to be Extremely synergistic Relationship Between Between the team And the community Right And I think And that's what I try to do Right I strive to have a Extremely synergistic Right Relationship You know Right Where I trust that They take care of me You know But I don't take care of them So it's like It's not one or the other Right It's like It's like any healthy relationship, right?

1:42:29It's not dependence, it's interdependence, right? You know, I think I strive for the interdependence. That's so interesting because I had the founder of, CEO of Monad yesterday on the podcast, Kioni, and he was saying exactly that. He was saying, I feel like I'm really giving some massive alpha here, but for Monad, I've always said since the very beginning that the product is the community. it's not the yes we're building a technology but our actual product is the community and not enough people really understand that in crypto they kind of say yeah the community is important the community is the community that but actually if you understand that you're building a massively solid community then the community is built off of a few factors mission vision and values so what's the mission of the project what's the vision for the project and what are the values of the team unless you can rally behind mission vision and values then and unless you're able to deliver those mission vision and values then people are just there as mercenaries and your job as a as a team founder your job as as a team lead your job as a builder is not to create mercenaries but to create missionaries because if at the end of the game at the end of the day at the end of this entire thing that we're trying to do here it doesn't matter how much money we make if we're still nuking each other in society we're still dropping bombs on fucking four-year-old children yes then we fucked up the entire game we fucked up the entire narrative as to why we're doing crypto and we just end up being just as bad as the people that we're trying to compete against i i just to say that right i feel it's actually really important to um i'll go even one step further right i'll say that the what what you want to do here is that you want to actually um get to a point whereby the community, it's not about team values, community values, right?

1:44:21Can you have a, it's not just a team value, it's about community values, right? Community mission, right? You know, community code, right? And that's actually what we, I think everyone should strive for, right? Because the two most misused words in crypto, right, is decentralization and community, right? Everyone says community, blah, blah, blah. But I think very, very few people actually do the work, you know, Remember there's this I won't say the name But then this project Did the ad drop The users complained And Someone called Someone in the team Called it eBaggers Right EBaggers Man that broke trust man That broke trust man Because that clearly showed Your value How you see the community And that was over I think it's very hard Because you clearly You demonstrated With no no doubt how you see the community right you know and I think that's actually really tricky so I think for us I think for us I think I don't even okay so here's my trick okay now and I'll end on this but I think the key to understanding this is that you are the community I am the community I don't I don't see obviously for some structural reasons there's a community but I don't see it that way right I really really see me and every member but it's him as part of the community.

1:45:44We all just play a different role, right? I think that's very important because that humbles you, you know? Yeah, I think that - It's very interesting that you say that. You know, one of my favorite artists of all time, and we probably all like him as well, is Kanye West. And Kanye West has been able to revolutionize the way that people think about music, the way that people think about fashion, the shoes that people wear. And Kanye West famously said, I am culture. I am culture. So if you have culture and you're able to translate that from yourself and instill those values into your community and you're able to translate the mission, vision, and values over an extended period of time, you have a very good chance of winning.

1:46:26You tweeted today, and this is very relevant because we have three people around this table who are fairly fit mentally, physically. No. Okay. You said you were better before, but you're still good. You're still good. We're going to get in shit, bro. You said, we'll do it, we'll do it. Body of an athlete, mind of a stoic, spirit of a warrior. One of the most common passions that we both share is that, and that is extremely useful to stand the test of time of entrepreneurship and crypto, is biohacking or health in general, right? So what do you guys do to be able not only to survive building all these businesses, but also thrive and stay mentally sane when you go through crazy events like, you know, Jupiter token lounge?

1:47:18Oh, I have friends. I have friends. I have friends. Yeah, that's all you need. That's all you need. Seriously, I think you can, I think people go, I think people go a lot into the specifics of what to eat, what to wear, how much to sleep. Brian Johnson being the perfect example of that. Right, the extreme of that, right? I'm kind of on the extreme of that. I'll be honest here, right? I think I'm lazy, okay? And Jupiter is trying to do many, many things, right? From the launchpad to building the best town in the world to wanting to bring crypto to the masses, right? To wanting to decentralize finance, wanting to break the extreme centricion of finance.

1:47:57I won't do anything, it's done, right? And of course, the product matters, right? So every day, I'm also looking at the product, things to break, the oracles to work, we'll do fix all the stuff. So basically, I'm very loaded, right? So basically, I think, and every day I'm overwhelmed, right, you know, with the sheer amount of problems and the community, because I'm open to the community too, right, the community pings me every day on Twitter, on Discord, right, you know, on emails, right, on Telegram, right. right so i feel like um um so i so i guess i'm trying to say here is that every day i am overwhelmed by my long-term ideas but my mid-term strategy and my very immediate short-term pains or needs of the users right and the community and team so i think the way so basically i have no mental space for optimizing anything else right so what i do is that i make sure i have good friends who are in many ways the mental and spiritual and physical examples of what I like.

1:48:53Because if I hang out with them, eventually I'll get there. Eventually, and so they'll drive me to the gym. They'll talk to me. They'll talk to me. They'll drive me to ice baths. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I told him. He's like, yo, let's hang out. It's like, okay, we're going to sauna and we're going to ice baths. as much as some people hate on it, for example, ice baths, it's a great way to reduce cortisol levels. It's a great way to de-stress. He's amazing right after. My co-founder, he doesn't do any fitness, man. This guy got him addicted to ice baths. Now he goes every week. Yeah, it's awesome.

1:49:29It's really good, yeah. Yeah, and in summary, my life hack is that I try to spend time with people I think are awesome. Yeah, I agree. And also understanding that if money's all that you have and if you're building but you're neglecting your health then you also kind of lost the game we were we were just saying like dude imagine you're extremely overweight imagine you're in a situation where you can't move that's not an optimized life like that's not you can't be out here sacrificing your health and your mental wellness for for others you need to also be able to prioritize your well-being and that's an encouragement to all the builders and all the founders just because you're doing a ton of shit, and just because you have all this stuff that you have to work on, don't neglect yourself.

1:50:15Because eventually, it's going to catch up. You don't sleep for X amount of weeks, like it's going to catch up. You don't exercise, you eat like shit, eventually it will catch up. And one of the SPF probably slept very little. It was famous for him taking a lot of epidemines, or whatever, right? And you'd see him shake on every interview. No, guys, guys, the problem is this, right? The problem is that it compromises the decision making. Yes, absolutely. Even if you say, I don't care about my health, I don't care about anything. The problem is this. When you are not mentally healthy and stuff, you compromise the decision making.

1:50:50You react, you blow up over small things. You get angry at community members. You fail to have empathy for token holders. I think one thing that I have a lot of empathy for is token holders. I think at a personal level, I think the price is not important for me, right? But I think I do understand that people care about the price and then they have pain, right, when they have the price. So I think what I want to do is I don't have empathy, right? But when you are completely stressed out, completely broken, that's why you can't have empathy, right? You lack the key mental facilities for good decision-making.

1:51:28And what are those, right? The patience. Patience. Empathy. Clarity. you know right and that is and those three things so with amphetamines for example right you get a lot of energy drive ambition right but you lose on everything else right you know so i i i feel like that that is actually for any founder for any investor who who don't care about health and stuff but just want to optimize for the portfolio or the company and stuff i will say this right the read the my pitch to you for staying in good mental health right three things right clarity patience empathy the the roots of good strategic decision making yeah and doing hard things when you do hard things physically Miyamoto Musashi famous said when the mind is weak let the body be strong and when the body is strong and when the body is weak let the mind be strong so it's a cycle right it's a cycle and yeah not every day you're going to be able to go to the gym you're traveling I haven't I've been traveling for the last two months I don't I'm not able to optimize for the routine that I want I'm not able to sleep but there's seasons of life but it's a marathon Life is a marathon.

1:52:30The game is a marathon. If you're only playing short-term 100-meter sprints and that's the name of the game for you, then eventually you're going to burn out. I like it, though. I like it, because you can always be one or the other, right? It's very hard to be always tip-top shape on both, right? I'm certainly, at this point in time, I lost a bunch of weight and everything and stuff. I'm not as well-tuned physically as I want to, but I feel mentally really good, right? And because I feel mentally really good, I'm in good shape and my schedule clears up next month. So I'm in good shape. I mean, good mental clarity to hit the gym, it well, and everything next month.

1:53:06Right? You know what I'm saying? Right. Yeah. So I think that's one question. You can always, even if one is down, do the other. You know? And so and so forth. Very important. So mental health is the key benchmark. But for founders... Mental and physical, both. Both, yeah. But for founders, it's very easy to be in denial. I'm doing great. Or I'll do good. I mean, just look at you. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I mean, at the end of the day, denial does not mean reality and eventually reality will catch up to you so just just look at yourself in the mirror if you don't feel good if you're stressed if you're depressed i mean look at just what the happy chemical is happy chemical serotonin serotonin is produced in the gut it's produced by your diet it's produced by the things that you consume it's not just oh thinking positive thoughts if you're thinking positive thoughts but your biochemistry in your entire in your entire body's out of sync then eventually you're going to feel the consequences of that nobody can nobody can neglect natural law, right?

1:53:57Nobody can slam their face against the wall enough times and expect not to get bruised. Eventually, things are going to catch up. So I think it's a marathon. It just, I mean, just to go through the last few months, I really went through a lot of the emotion cycle last few months. I feel like, I feel like, no, I feel like it's true because you can deny all you want. I think there was certainly, I think many times before the Juke launch that I was getting caught up in my own hype, you know, right? That I tweeted certain things in a certain vibe that I actually didn't appreciate. I looked back at my stuff, right?

1:54:28And back then, there were people who was like, hey, dude, you're probably kind of like being a bit too much, right? I was like, ah, I'm okay. I was in delusion, right? But I think what was good was that I didn't really go overboard, right? That I had a certain level of self-consciousness. I didn't overstep per se, right? And I think similarly, I think during a juke launch, I was under a lot of stress. I mean, because there was so much misinformation it's crazy right you get so angry right and i think um and similarly i think even that period of time i i think i did i was very very aggressive in like um defending the the the things right i mean i i went on laurel shin defiant like trustless podcast that every single famous podcast right you know things that do kind of clarify things right um but i think i think um and i did and people are telling me dude chill the fuck out man right but and i and i and to your point i i did it was hard for me to have perspective right for me i was like i'm doing the right thing I still think that I was Pretty okay on that front But I did actually Kind of lose perspective So I think it was like So I feel like Like even if you Occasionally lose perspective Right That's what they were saying And stuff Right But as long as you Kind of like Realize That You are not As clear-minded As you think you are Right As long as you keep That thought in your mind Then I think that helps Because then that allows you to like, like, like, pull back before it's too late, you know?

1:55:56Yeah. And if you look at, and if you look at, and I love this example, if you look at SBF, Suju and Dokon, right, they didn't pull back, you know? They, they, they just, they doubled down. No, seriously, it's like, it's amazing, it's like, right at the end, they really, really, like, SBF literally had to be sentenced to whatever hundreds of Joe before he repented, right? It's crazy. This is the ultimate example of complete denial, like, you're so deep into your denial, that you just don't... He had to be in jail before, like sentenced to jail before he was like, okay, I better change the way I think about stuff, you know?

1:56:31And the thing is, he hasn't changed the way that he thinks. The thing is, you can live in denial and you can live in your own delusion and at the end of the day, like I said in the beginning, just as a founder, as an entrepreneur, as a person, just never make irreversible decisions. Never say shit that you're going to regret because once it's out on the internet, you're fucked. And you do, but I apologize for it. Over here, I'm going to say a big, big, big thank you to everyone who was so supportive and helped me and corrected me and sent me messages and tell me to correct anything. I might not have listened at that point in time, but just want to let everyone who is listening, if you ever told me anything to help me improve, thank you.

1:57:09I love you. Yeah. And I try to do better. Yeah. That's all. Yeah. Phenomenal. Amazing. Thanks for having us, brother. Great session. Cool. Very nice. Actually, the last question was that was like, what's your message to all the people who believe in you out there? so my i'll give you my last message and i'll keep it very simple focus on becoming the best version of yourself focus on improving in every area of life and understand that life is a marathon and not a sprint find allies find people that are aligned with mission vision and values of what you want to see the world be work with them over an extended period of time and understand that money success is a lagging indicator and that eventually if you plant enough seeds if you plant enough goodwill.

1:57:56And if you build, you will get rewarded. I want to share something very important for me. I think, guys, we are in a critical point in crypto now. Does crypto become a purely a giant casino? Or do we return to the ethos of why we're doing everything? I think what's really important, and I want to look at everyone here, right, is that let's work towards a decentralized financial world, you know. Let's look together at a world whereby everyday people actually use crypto, not just own crypto, right, for payments, for remittances, for like buying a car, for everything, buying a house, starting company, everything, right.

1:58:37Because when we actually get to that point, right, where everyone's actually using decentralized technologies to do all these decentralized financial things for daily things that they need, right, that is actually when We start to have the ability To break free of the infinite Sukumayaki You know Because then we start to enter This parallel financial universe But to get there We need enough people in it Because everything we talked about Requires a critical mass of people We need hundreds and millions of people To live in this parallel Decentralized universe Otherwise it wouldn't work We would never get critical mass Right And we're in a time crunch Precisely We are at a very difficult time AI is being introduced as a tool for mass control.

1:59:20And there will come a time where if we do not get our shit together and if we do not become too big to fail, then we're going to be fucked. And it doesn't matter if you're sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars. It doesn't matter if you've got a Lamborghini in the garage. It doesn't matter if you've got 10 million followers on Instagram. If we do not collaborate together to fundamentally and radically change the way that we perceive reality, the way that we collaborate with each other, building decentralized communities, building digital tribes, then the future does not look bright. But we have an opportunity, we have a chance, and we got to work together.

2:00:04And I know we're ending, but I really need to say this, right? It's so important to jump into that point, right? It's that like, guys, it's like we need to, like we need to change the idea of crypto to the world okay because if not people will hate crypto can set the agenda guys let me say again right now we're entering a pivotal moment okay where the masses we start to understand two things is crypto this like giant ponzi and scamming industry right or is it a fundamental force of change right that can be used by daily people we're in a race Why? Because crypto is very high value right now The more the market cap of crypto increases But imagine these guys Imagine if crypto goes from$2 trillion to$10.23 trillion Make sense?

2:00:51But the usefulness of crypto Real usefulness of decentralization Is still extremely low Then it's actually really bad It's not great Then what we're doing We're giving the opponents of crypto A lot of ammunition To say, nah, crypto is useless It's full of scams and everything So what I need to do is As we grow the market capital of crypto We must also grow the people Who actually use These centralized technologies And financial systems And that's what we're here to do We're going to grow these two things in parallel We have to grow these two in parallel And only in this case We get the critical mass of people Who is actually In this parallel financial universe And that's what we're here for Absolutely And I think that's one of the key things we're trying to do here also, which is educate the people in a simplistic fashion enough so that they understand.

2:01:43Because unfortunately, crypto is still very intimidating for a lot of people. And even I think the media out there and the podcasts are extremely technical, which is not appealing to most of the people. Kevin, can I just say something real quick here? It's like we think of Instagram as very easy to use, right? Yeah. Right? But the first few iterations of social web, BBS, Usenet, right, weird ass forums, right? They're not easy to use at all, right? So I feel like, so I agree with you, don't get me wrong, I 100 % agree with you that onboarding people into this, like it's still very difficult today, but I think that has hope, okay?

2:02:19I feel like if you look at, like it's already much better, right? Much better than before, two years ago. So we will get better and we will get there. Yeah, you look at 2017, in order for you to participate in an ICO, you had to be in a situation whereby you had to send tokens to a random address and from that random address you would hope that they would send you you know some tokens back today with jupiter exchange with the projects that are being built out you have the ability to really participate in a parallel universe that is very very exciting the asymmetrical bet to builders is huge the asymmetrical bet to be involved with communities is massive it's the opportunity of a lifetime and I hope people understand that this opportunity will not be around forever.

2:03:02We got to work together. We got to collaborate. The sky's the limit. If the opponents start to tear us apart, if we don't convince the masters that we are here, we are useful, and we are a great industry, we can change our lives, they will tear us apart, right? And crypto is the only way for us to escape the infinite superarchy. I'm convinced of that, right? You know, AI is a centralizing force. Like Seriously AI is not a popular opinion But AI is a centralizing force Crypto is a decentralizing force Don't get me wrong I love AI Right But ultimately It's a centralizing force Okay We need crypto To be as strong A decentralizing force As possible Amazing guys Thank you so much For doing this Thanks for having us Thanks guys Thank you

2:03:54Thank you.