El Cid (Radio Edit)

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1:22Hello and welcome to You're Dead to Me, the Radio 4 comedy podcast that takes history seriously. My name's Greg Janner. I'm a public historian, author and broadcaster. And today we are gathering a band of mercenaries and galloping back to 11th century Spain to learn about legendary warrior and all-around lad El Cid. And to join our quest, we have two very special comrades in arms. In History Corner, she's Professor of European History at the University of Cambridge, where she specialises in medieval social and religious history. She's the author of the fascinating book El Cid, the life and afterlife of a medieval mercenary.

1:55It's Professor Nora Behrend. Welcome, Nora. Thank you. I'm thrilled to be here. And can someone take good care of my horse while I'm here? Pop it in the stables. No worries. Annie Comedy Corner. Annie Comedy Corner. He's an award winning stand up and comedy writer. You might have seen him on Richard Osman's House of Games, comedians giving lectures, Outsiders, Late Night Mash. Maybe you've seen his recent smash hit stand up show, Accessible Pigeon Material. Is there any other kind? And you'll remember him from our past episodes on Frederick Douglass and the causes of the British Civil Wars. It's Toussaint Douglas.

2:27Welcome back, Toussaint. Thanks for having me, Greg. Absolute pleasure to be here. This is without doubt my favourite podcast on the BBC about history. Thank you. The caveat started rolling in. Last time out, Toussaint, we were on home turf with the British Civil Wars. I know you're quite good on politics and history. Yeah. So how comfortable are you with medieval Spain? I'm going to be completely honest with you, Greg. Spanish historical figures, not my forte. I know Chris we all know Chris right we don't even have to say his last name we all know Chris what I'm talking about Akabusi Chris Akabusi 1992 Olympics bronze medalist I'm obviously talking about Christopher Columbus Catherine of Aragon I know them and then it gets quite sketchy we're on to Don Quixote Don Juan I'm not even sure if these people are actually real people but I know them yeah the last two are fictional but that's fine so the name El Cid nothing's going off in your brain I mean, first off, it's a great name, right?

3:27It sounds like the name of a lead singer of a Spanish punk band, do you know what I mean? Yes. And also a cleaning product. El Cid and the dirt is quitado. That's what's rigging for me when you say El Cid, but no, I don't know who he is. Okay, well, that's fine. That's all good. So, what do you know?

3:51This is the So What Do You Know. This is where I have a go at guessing what you, our lovely listener, will know about today's subject. And if you're tuning in from Spain, you will probably be familiar with El Cid. For everyone else, I reckon you're half remembering a dead guy on a horse from the classic 1961 movie El Cid starring Charlton Heston and Sophia Loren. She did not play the horse, just checking. And a listener, actually, if you're in the UK, you can watch the El Cid movie on BBC iPlayer. It's there right now and it's there for a while. And of course, in that movie, El Cid is portrayed as a Christian hero who fights Muslim invaders.

4:23If you're a gamer, like me a bit, you will know El Cid from the Crusader Kings games and the Total War games, my absolute faves. But who was the man behind the myth? Does his real life live up to legend? And can a corpse really lead an army? Let's find out. Okie dokie. Nora, we're calling this guy El Cid. First name El, last name Cid? I'm afraid not. El is the Castilian vernacular, the. and Sid comes from the Arabic. It's a distorted Arabic term from Saeed Lord. It used to be thought that he was called Miocid, my lord, by his Muslim subjects and that it was a unique, honorific. This has now been very much questioned because the first source that calls him that is later after he died.

5:10He was called Camperador, battler in his lifetime. And so it may well be that even Sid, but certainly El Cid, the Lord, is just kind of part of the later legend already. Do we have a real name for him though? What's our... Rodrigo. Rodrigo. So Rodrigo Diaz or Rui Diaz. So at the time, Rodrigo and Rui were sort of the same name. Is Diaz a surname or is it a middle name? So Diaz is basically, they used patronymics. So from your father's name, you had this. So his father was Diego, so he was Diaz. OK, so Rodrigo Diaz, not really El Cid until later on. So we'll call him Rodrigo. We'll call him Rodrigo.

5:50That's the guy. OK, we've done a full episode already, listeners, on Al Andalus, which you can go listen to in the back catalogue. It's lots of fun. But can we have a quick refresher? What sort of world is Rodrigo Diaz born into? It was a time of opportunity and political upheaval. We don't really know exactly when he was born, but it's kind of middle of the 11th century. So to go back a little bit, in the early 8th century, an Arab-led Berber conquest arrived in the Iberian Peninsula. And in the wake of that, Al-Andalus, a Muslim society, developed. And this Al-Andalus was the main power on the Iberian Peninsula for quite a long time, until 1031 when the last caliph, Hisham III, was overthrown.

6:37You've mentioned the Arabs and the Berbers there. Could you explain the differences between them? The Arabs converted to Islam were the first followers of Muhammad. The Berbers of North Africa were relatively recently converted or not yet quite converted to Islam at this point. So the leadership consisted of the Arabs, but a lot of the army invading the peninsula were Berbers from North Africa. And then Al-Andalus fragmented into a lot of what are called Taifa principalities. There were 33 of them initially. Wow, so one kingdom turned into 33. Exactly. That's a nightmare. Huge change. And it also meant that the northern Christian kingdoms, which were slowly emerging sort of after the early 8th century, by the 11th century, there was Leon, Castile and Aragon, who were the main players on the Christian side.

7:30They now had the upper hand. So these Christians from the north could start raiding into the south. So Toussaint, what do you think of Pequeño Rodrigo's childhood? What do you imagine his childhood was like? What class do you think he's born into? And what do you think his early days are? He ended up as my lord, the lord. So I guess there's got to be some sort of lordiness involved in his childhood. Is that a technical term? Yeah, I'm from Lewishaw. I have no idea. I think he wasn't a commoner, but he was a fighter, right? So actually he can't have been that high up because they didn't get their hands dirty.

8:08Okay. So I'm thinking he was middle class, but he would secretly shop at Liddles. In terms of nobility, that's kind of where he was back then. I don't know. I have no idea. I think that's a really good guess. I think that's a good summary, Nora. We know for his father, who is Diego Alainez, who was definitely from the aristocracy, And one source from the 12th century mentions that his mother was also from the aristocracy, but there are debates about who exactly she was. We know that he appeared at the court of the then Infanta Sancho, so prince who later on became Sancho II. So in the early 1060s, he appears as a warrior.

8:48And when Sancho becomes king, 1065, Rodrigo is kind of an established warrior and he leads the king's retinues. Okay. You said Sancho II, he's the king of Leon Castile. Is that a combination of two kingdoms that have been smushed together? Yes, exactly. So Spanish kingdoms at this time are joined, then separated, then joined again. So, yeah. Quite troubled relationship. So Fernando I, who was king of Leon Castile, left his realm, divided between his three sons when he died in 1065. Oh, he did a king leer. Yeah, absolute rookie. So Sancho II, Alfonso VI and Garcia II. And they immediately started fighting it out.

9:37So first Alfonso and Sancho together defeated and exiled Garcia. And then Sancho turned against Alfonso and defeated and exiled him. And then he started besieging a fortress of his sister Uraca. His sister as well. And met a very sticky end because apparently an assassin stuck a spear in his back. Oh. That allowed Alfonso to return and claim the throne. I'm sorry, but can you still be called an assassin if you kill them with a spear? That's hardly subtle, is it? Who's the king now? I've lost track of who. Alfonso VI. Thank you. Alfonso VI is now king. He reunites Léon-Costeux. Okay, so he brings the kingdoms back together.

10:20Great. Toussaint, how do you think Rodrigo Diaz navigated this new court politics now that the siblings have fought it out? What do you reckon he does? I mean, you've got to get straight in there with the new king, right? That's got to be your go-to move. I didn't even like Sancho II. You were always my favourite, Alfonso. Come on. Alfonso VI, let's go. OK, you're a smooth talker. OK, I can see that. Nora, was Rodrigo, you know, was he smooth and loyal to the new king? Did he fail with a friend or absolutely ride or die with the new king? Well, loyalty was definitely not Rodrigo's strong stoop.

10:59So you're quite right about sort of immediately wanting to get on the good side of the king. So, yeah, he basically switched to Alfonso's court and he became one of Alfonso's warriors. Eventually, he fell out with Alfonso. So Alfonso was the protector of one of these Muslim taifa kingdoms, Toledo. But when there was a Muslim attack, a plundering attack against Castile, Rodrigo retaliated by raiding Toledo. So obviously that put Alfonso in a very nasty spot because one of his own warriors was raiding an area he was supposed to be protecting. So Alfonso ended up exiling Rodrigo. Right. It feels like he's a guy, he doesn't like having a boss.

11:48It feels like he wants to work for himself, you know what I mean? He feels like he's more suited to kind of like being self-employed. A freelance, if you will. Yeah. Someone who really on the battlefield put the lance into freelance. Exactly. The tree is at the back. What we haven't mentioned, actually, he's married. So who's Mrs. Rodrigo? She's Ximena. They married around 1074. She is also from an aristocratic family, related in fact to King Alfonso VI. And when Rodrigo goes into exile, she takes their children back to her family, probably. They have three children, two daughters, Cristina and Maria, and probably a son, Diego, although he's only mentioned in a later source.

12:35What do you think wifeless, childless Rodrigo gets up to in his exile? I think he's getting a lot of good sleep. I think that's for sure. He's getting his eight hours in. Spoken like a new dad. Yeah, he's getting his beauty sleeping. I'm a bit jealous, actually, of this Rodrigo guy. Yes, understandable. You say getting a lot of sleep. He's a mercenary commander, Nora. Yeah, I'm not so sure he's getting lots of sleep, actually. And he first tried to go to the court of the Count of Barcelona, who was not interested in him. So he ends up going to one of these Muslim taifa kingdoms, Zaragoza. He's working for Islamic rulers and armies.

13:13Is this controversial and rare or is this like just par for the course? It's very much part of the course. It was not at all unusual at the time. And in fact, Christian kings had more of a chance dying by the hands of other Christians, including their relatives, than dying fighting Muslims. And usually in these wars, Christian Muslim alliances fought against other Christian Muslim alliances. So it's quite a misnomer to sort of see this as some kind of Christian war against Muslims. The rhetoric of Christian war basically coexisted with this kind of much more pragmatic and indiscriminate fighting in reality.

13:55He's not like this religious zealot kind of warrior. He's just like a member of the gig economy, basically. But in 1086, Rodrigo went back to Team Alfonso. Did they kiss and make up? Was this, you know, is this a sort of lovely reunion? It's unclear whether he initiated this return or the king. Because the background was basically a huge shock that was produced by the actions of Alfonso VI. Up until then, kings were collecting tribute. The Muslims got used to that. But Alfonso then decided to send the taifa ruler of Toledo to Valencia. So he just removed him, gave him another kingdom and annexed Toledo in 1085.

14:34Wow. And that was symbolically significant because it used to be the capital before the Arab-Berber conquest. So this was very important symbolically, but it sent a kind of wave of panic through the Taifa rulers who then called the Moroccan Almoravids in to help them. So the Almoravids invaded. From Morocco. From Morocco by the sea, overseas. and immediately defeated Alfonso, who was now absolutely desperate for warriors. But in 1089, so indeed, very quickly, the king and Rodrigo fell out again. This time, the Almoravids, together with Taifa armies, were besieging Aledo. And Rodrigo seems to have found a very lame excuse for not showing up.

15:24And the king, obviously, was not pleased by this. He had Rodrigo's family imprisoned. He confiscated all his lands and he exiled him again. So with his retinue, some of his men deserted him, but enough were left to kind of carry out raids for himself and to reward his followers. So basically he's now just trying to build up a power base for himself. So he's a start-up. He's an entrepreneur.

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16:52And then he starts really focusing on Valencia and collecting tribute for himself from there. Continues to fight against Muslims and Christians fairly indiscriminately. Believe it or not, he and King Alfonso try to cooperate again. And this time fall out because Rodrigo places his camp in front of the kings. Rodrigo claims that this is because he's trying to protect the king, but the king sees it as absolute arrogance. They have various angry exchanges and confrontations to the point where Alfonso wants to have Rodrigo captured. But Rodrigo, at that point, escapes. What's next for Rodrigo? Like, you know, he can't just keep this up, Kenny.

17:37He can't just keep allying and falling out with people. Well, he actually has his big break at this point. Oh, right. So as the Almoravids are conquering some of the lands of the Iberian Peninsula, there's an uprising in Valencia. And this ruler, Al-Qadir, who had been installed by Alfonso VI as his protege, who is very, very unpopular, is now overthrown, captured and executed. And the city's judge, Ibn Jahaf, takes power. OK. And where is Valencia in the geography of Spain? Is it West Bain? Well, it's on the eastern coast and it was quite far down in Muslim lands at this point. Okay, on the eastern coast.

18:17Okay, thank you. Rodrigo has seized this city. He seized Valencia. Well, so, I mean, he had been collecting tribute from there. And so he has men who were then either captured during this rebellion or had to flee. And it's at this point that Rodrigo decides to besiege the city. Right. So the siege means surrounding the city, starving it, raiding the surrounding countryside. And Ibn Jahaf tries to get help from the Almoravids, who do send an army. But torrential rains and Rodrigo cutting the dams of the river Turia floods the area between the Almoravids and Rodrigo's army. So Rodrigo basically foils this plan to get outside help.

19:03And in the end, in 1094, Valencia surrenders and Rodrigo becomes its ruler now. So he officially calls himself and is called by his subjects prince, which is a kind of term for rulers who are not kings. So he's Prince Rodrigo. Yeah, he's gone up. It's kind of worked out for him. Actually, he died. He died in 1099 of natural causes. and he did not leave a male heir, so no son who could have potentially taken him. Oh, so the son in the source that you talked about, Diego's son, he would have died. Okay, he died. And his daughters would inherit? So his widow Ximena inherited. His daughters were married.

19:46They were married, but it was Ximena who then ruled Valencia for three years. But then the Almoravids started to besiege Valencia and Ximena asked Alfonso VI for help. So at this point, yeah, it's difficult to hold the city against this army. And Alfonso does arrive with an army. He does? Yeah, he does. Oh, fair play, Alfonso. He doesn't seem to bear grudges, yes. He had every reason to be like, nope. I mean, also, of course, remember, she was a kinswoman of him and of his. And of course, Rodrigo was already dead. But so, yeah, he arrives with an army, lifts the siege. but he cannot maintain the defence of Valencia so far away from his own land.

20:30So basically the city is evacuated. Everybody with their possessions go north to Castile. Alfonso has the city burned, so not to leave it intact for the Almoravids. And Ximena also takes Rodrigo's remains and has him reburied in a monastery called San Pedro de Cardenia. Don't get up yet though, Tucson. So we're not done yet because we're going to now talk about the kind of the afterlife of Rodrigo or rather El Cid, this whole other guy that he becomes. Is it a religious revival? A series of people and reasons, actually. There is this kind of religious rhetoric, which is indeed important. And in the 12th, 13th centuries, especially the war that was still a much messier war on the ground, but it was increasingly accompanied by a kind of ecclesiastical rhetoric, which presented it at least as sort of Christian war against Muslims.

21:29It wasn't quite matching realities, but you have that very strong rhetoric of the restoration of Christian lands. Two more reasons, really. One was the creation of a prestigious past for Castile, because Castile, by the 13th century, became the most important Christian kingdom. But at the start, it didn't have a particularly illustrious beginning. So now they're looking for Castilian heroes. So here is Elthid. And then finally, the monastery, the monastery of San Pedro de Cardenia, where he's buried. The monks are fantastic producers of all kinds of stories and tales and really foster his cult.

22:10so they kind of create these fictional links between the live Rodrigo as if he had already sort of chosen the monastery in all kinds of ways and they of course want to attract donations and also have this very prestigious patron and they actually try to have him canonized as a saint eventually. Oh really? And Toussaint, in one medieval text, El Cid's death was famously rewritten. Do you know what it says? Is it that he rides his horse even though he's dead? Yeah, that's right. He managed to ride his horse. Which sounds weird. He inspired his men to victory, wasn't it? That's it. Well, yes, although it's kind of even more intriguing than that, because according to the story, which was written in the 13th century and then incorporated into the official court chronicles of the Castilian kings.

22:58The horse was also dead. No, although the horse can also be an important player later on. But according to this, St. Peter... The horse becomes a king as well. I'm going to get on this, actually. I'm going to get on this gig economy. I'm not making way enough money as a horse. I'm going to be a ruler, actually. I've changed my mind. So St. Peter appears to Rodrigo for telling his death and a victory after death. Wow. Good news, bad news. Yeah, exactly. Which one do you want first? And Rodrigo prepares for this for seven days. He doesn't eat. he just drinks a bit of water mixed with myrrh and balsam.

23:39So he basically is embalming himself while he's still alive. So indeed he dies. A Muslim army led by Bukhar attacks. For nine days, they fight against them. And of course, people don't know what's going on. Rodrigo doesn't come, doesn't appear. And then after that, they put him in his armor, strap him on his horse, fix his sword in his hand. And together with the army, he sort of charges out, helped by no other than St. James the Apostle, along with a heavenly host. So I think you cannot do better than that. And of course, they defeat the Muslim army. The text also then deprives the Muslims of the victory of taking, of retaking Valencia, because according to this, Rodrigo wanted to be buried at San Pedro de Cardeña so immediately after he died so after this victory they take the corpse to be buried and everybody wants to participate so the whole town is empty because all the inhabitants go to bury him in San Pedro so the Muslims can take the city So it's not an evacuation they've just all gone to the funeral Yeah, exactly A different take on an open casket funeral, isn't it?

24:53Just one line about the horse because according to the same text, the horse is then taken very good care of at the monastery. So he has this very long, nice life and they make sure that there are lots of fillies so his line is perpetuated. I'm sorry, what is this text? And what would the person who wrote that text smoke in? Because this is... You want some of that. But he was a monk, I'm afraid. Yeah, okay, cool. So he's called Elfid by this point, right? The name Rodrigo has sort of turned into the Lord. So there we go. Quite the life. Toussaint, where do you stand? I'm still a bit of a fan. He's a go-getter, you know, and he's done his thing.

25:37He go-gets and then sets fire too. He go-gets, sets fire and then leaves, yeah. The nuance window!

25:48Time now for the nuance window. This is where Toussaint and I sit quietly and snack on our myrrh and balsam so we can mummify ourselves. For two minutes, while Professor Nora rides into battle, hopefully still alive, to tell us something we need to know about El Cid slash Rodrigo Diaz. My stopwatch is ready. Take it away, Professor Behrend. What I think is very intriguing is not simply how Rodrigo Diaz was transformed into El Cid, but how that mythical construct then became a kind of mascot and rallying cry for both the right and the left. And even, of course, today, now, the new right and far right again uses Al-Sidh as a kind of prototype white supremacist fighting against Muslims and migrants.

26:34But very strangely, he's also been picked up as a model guy for peaceful coexistence and multiculturalism. So somebody who lived together with and learned from Muslims. So I think this is a very interesting mixture. And of course, the left wing use of the Sid goes back already to early modern times when this legend developed about him enforcing this oath so that the nobles would not accept off on the sixth until he swears he had nothing to do with his brother's murder, Sancho's murder. That turns the Sid into a kind of person who can hold kings to justice, someone who's against tyranny. And so in early modern times, he's already represented in this way.