Hannibal of Carthage: fearsome enemy of ancient Rome

26:25And then they'd be able to just eat them with their trunks out. That's a very good point. You just have to put a good Ziploc on to make sure they actually make it so you can get them across. OK, Jo, how do you convince elephants to go off route, off mountain pistes? OK, so the real problem with the elephants isn't actually the mountains. The elephants can kind of manage the mountains. It's the river. It's when he has to cross the Rhône in between the Pyrenees and the Alps. And elephants really don't like crossing water. So what he has to do is construct a kind of bridge of rafts and then cover it in earth.

27:00So the elephants think that it's land. But then they leave the female elephants on first, so the other elephants will just follow. So that's also... It's like a night out, that is. Eventually, they do. But we don't know. He leaves Siberia with 37 elephants, and we honestly don't know how many arrive in Italy. He leaves with 37 and he shows up with... We don't know. Two elephants. Some elephants. OK, so he leaves Iberia with 50 ,000 soldiers on foot, 9 ,000 cavalry, 37 elephants. How many soldiers do you think he arrives with, Darren? Did you say 50 ,000? Yeah, so 50 ,000 foot troops, 9 ,000 cavalry.

27:39How long do we think, days-wise, it takes to get there? How long do you think it would have took him? It took him 15 days just across the Alps. So it's going to be, I mean, it's several months. So he starts marching in early summer, say May, June of 218. And he actually gets there in October. Oh, OK. I'm going to go 20 ,000. That's bang on. Whoa. Come on. That's amazing. As far as we can tell, Joe, he arrives 20 ,000 soldiers to left. and about 6 ,000 cavalry. So he's lost more than half his army. How do you keep the spirit going? Like, just ready, still ready to fight when you've lost that many?

28:24I guess you're eating the elephants, maybe. Elephant barbecue lads, anyone? OK, so he's shown up with half his army devastated already just by that long, long march. And then what, was there a Roman army waiting for him to ambush him? Yeah, there is, but it doesn't do them much good because he has this series of incredible victories In his first months in Italy, he wins the Battle of Tichinus in November, right after he's crossed the Alps. He wins the Battle of Trebia in December. Then the following June, he wins this enormous battle at Lake Trasimini. So this is all kind of northern central Italy.

28:59And then he carries on south. And in the autumn of 2017, there's a... 2017 BC, right? Sorry, sorry, yeah. No, 2017. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. In the autumn of 217, Rome has a temporary dictator because it's a state of emergency, Quintus Fabius Maximus, and he tries to block a Parsonapulia and ambush the Carthaginian army. But what Hannibal does is that he ties burning brands to the horns of 2 ,000 cattle and drives them up against the Roman troops. So that gets rid of the Roman troops. So he sets fire to live cows and charges them at the Romans? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got a lot of time on his hand, hasn't he?

29:42I'm not at this. He's doing very well. He also gains loads of allies in Italy. He basically convinces a lot of Italian cities to desert the Romans, who are the big imperial force there. I was going to say, what's his reputation like at this point, winning all these battles? He's very popular. People think that he's going to be certainly the new power in Italy. And so eventually Rome appoints two new consuls who have very different ideas. about how one is kind of a hawk, one's a dove, basically. And the problem is that because they're both fighting in the same battle, they have to command the army on alternate days.

30:23Oh, that's amazing. I love that. Right, you take Mondays on their Tuesday. What did you do on Tuesday? Oh, come on. Like doing a job share with someone who fundamentally disagrees with you on everything. Completely opposite. Nightmare. so those consoles are Gaius Terentius Varro, Lucius Aemilius Paulus and they just don't see eye to eye they don't see eye to eye at all and then comes the battle of Cannae and this is the biggest defeat of all for the Romans unsurprisingly and they've got more troops so Rome's got somewhere between 70 and 85 ,000 troops there are 50 ,000 Carthaginians and allies at this point but the reason that Hannibal wins is this amazingly brilliant tactic which is that he has a deliberately weak centre in his army to attract the Romans to attack him in the centre.

31:14And then he has cavalry, a very strong cavalry on both wings, with one of his nephews who's called Hanno and another guy called Hasdraval on the other side. And so what happens is that the Romans kind of surge into the centre where they see the weakness and then they're surrounded by the cavalry. And it's this complete and bit of tactical brilliance on Hannibal's part. and Rome suffers incredibly heavy losses, including one of the consuls, the one who didn't think they should go into battle. Monday and Wednesday, dead.

31:46So this is the Battle of Cannae. It's one of the greatest battles in history. It's taught to modern military commanders. Like if you go to Sandhurst now to go and study, you know, you still learn about the Battle of Cannae, the pincer movement. Is that what it is? That's what it's called? So you basically invite people in. so come come get me my sort of oh no what am I going to do and then suddenly yeah swoop around with the fast cavalry I wonder how long it took to just clear them out once they get in because they would have they would have just been so primed and ready I bet it didn't take very long to just empty them all out it would be horrific wouldn't it we're talking tens of thousands of people just slaughtered it's an absolutely brutal brutal battle but it's a huge win and so Hannibal has crushed the Romans again he has killed one of the consuls so geographically where is he now Hannibal after this big win at Cannae After Cannae, he's in the south of Italy.

32:36So how close is he to Rome? About 400 kilometres. Darren, would you? Would you march on Rome? I would so go into Rome. Yeah, I think he went into Rome and just tried to take over and just tried to kill whoever he could kill and then just set fire to a bunch of cats with little daggers and they just all ran in there.

32:58What a weird animal thing he's doing this time. He arms the cats but sets fire to them as well. He's not taking any chances in Rome. Amazingly, later on, the Romans figured out one of the ways to fight elephants is you set fire to pigs and you get the pigs to charge towards the elephants and that terrifies the elephants. So mobile bacon, I guess. Oh, the smell as well. But so cats on fire. Joe, does he march on Rome? Because Darren would. No, no, he doesn't. He doesn't. I'm afraid he's really sensible. I mean, what he does is he consolidates... What a sensible thing you've said about him. I'm actually in shock that he didn't do that.

33:37OK. So what he actually does is he uses this massive victory to consolidate his support in Italy. So he wins over Capua and Tarentum, which are two of the really big cities in southern Italy. He also wins over Syracuse and Sicily. And he makes another important ally further east, which is that he makes a treaty with King Philip of Macedon. So he's one of the most powerful rulers in the Mediterranean at that point. So they sign a treaty in 215. And, I mean, Hannibal is very dangerous at this point for the Romans. But eventually, so he does eventually march on Rome, but it's five years later in 211.

34:14And the reason he does it is that the Romans have besieged Capua, which is to the south of Rome. And it's really Carthage's key ally in Italy. And so Hannibal marches right up to the gates of Rome, but he doesn't attack. It doesn't attack. Is it just to show I can do this? Like, I can come here any time I want. Well, the later Roman sources kind of make it out to all be a kind of terrible mistake. There's a hailstorm that he takes as an unfavourable omen. And he also hears that Rome is diverting troops to Spain at this point. So he thinks they're not taking him seriously. And he basically chickens out.

34:56But, I mean, that's quite important to Romans, to make him seem like a really superstitious kind of scared person. So this is a later Roman historian called Livy. Exactly. This is Livy's version of the story. But actually, I think a much more likely way of telling the story is that he never intended to actually conquer Rome. It's much too big a job. And also there's no real profit to Carthage in acquiring Rome or destroying it. I think the strategy behind his whole campaign is to reduce Roman power in Italy and then in the Mediterranean more generally, basically to put Rome back in its box. And the immediate goal of the march on Rome is to lift the siege of Capua.

35:35He thinks that they'll have to lift the siege of Capua in order to come back and save Rome or at least split their troops. OK, that's pretty smart. I mean, what's the really bad piece of luck for Hannibal is that on the very day that he arrives at Rome, unbeknownst to him, the Romans have actually called a muster of soldiers in the city because they're recruiting some new legions. So actually, Rome is full of soldiers. He got there on the parade day. He got there, basically, yeah. And everyone's there. On the parade day. So the whole plan basically falls through and they don't lift the siege of Capua, not in time.

36:13And so he marches back south. That's amazing. That's like trying to do like a bank job when it's like the police training day and all the police are there. That's what the luck. So the sources say hailstorms, but you think strategically he's just like, this is not, this is not. Yeah, it's not. It doesn't make sense. Is that quite a big kick to his ego? Because he's had a lot of wins and this is going to be talked about. Well, I mean, what happens is, So they do then lose Capua to Rome. And maybe it is because something went really badly wrong at this point. I mean, this is a hinge point in history.

36:46Because if he'd crushed Rome in that moment, we might never have had the Roman Empire. Or even if he'd just kept Capua, maybe. Rome could have been put back in its box and it would have a much more multipolar Mediterranean. It's like when Blockbuster had the chance to buy Netflix and they didn't. And then Netflix became way bigger. This is it. He is, yeah, he's the ancient blockbuster. Sorry, I used to work for blockbuster. I like that job. Anyway, moving on. This is summer at its peak. Whole Foods Market Summer Fruit Fest is your invitation to eat the season. Fresh, organic and bursting with flavor.

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37:58But it all started when he gave a homeless man$10 ,000. So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism? Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on Good Bad Billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. OK, so the hailstorm is probably a later sort of Roman literary sort of legend or whatever. But he doesn't take Rome and then it doesn't kind of work out. So he gets sort of trapped down in Brutium. Yeah. And he's there for four years. Four years, exactly, yeah. What goes on in this period is that Scipio, Scipio the son. Oh, the good one. Yeah, yeah. He gets elected commander in Spain and he captures.

38:40So the Romans start to make real progress in Spain. So Scipio captures New Carthage in 209. Ancient Gardas, which is modern Cadiz, surrenders to the Romans after Mago leaves to join Hannibal in 206. So basically the bar kids lose control of Iberia at this point. And there are some reinforcements that come from Iberia to Hannibal. But when the leader of the reinforcements is killed in battle on the way, and this is actually Hannibal's brother. Oh no! Yeah, and Hannibal learns of his brother's death when his severed head is thrown into Hannibal's camp. Can I just say, I was waiting for a severed head to be given to somebody.

39:28Wow. That one moment at the gates and it all just changes. I mean, history is pure chaos, isn't it? You never know. They throw his head, right. He's spiralling. He's got to go crazy now. So Hasdrubal's severed head lands in his camp and Hannibal knows that the cavalry's not coming because the cavalry's dead. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so at this point, Hannibal just sort of has to go, all right, peace treaty. No, what happens now is that Scipio, having done quite a bit of damage to the Carthaginians in Spain, he now takes the war to North Africa. So the Romans actually invade North Africa and Scipio sets fire to a Carthaginian camp near Utica, which is west of Carthage in Tunisia.

40:11We're in 203 now. And so he sets fire to a Carthaginian camp. He also sets fire to a neighbouring camp of their local Numidian allies. These are the local kings. And this really devastates the Carthaginian forces in North Africa. And it also destabilises their local alliances because they were kind of collateral damage. And Scipio then defeats the Carthaginians in battle, a Carthaginian force led by another Hasdrubal, I'm afraid. Another one? Yeah. And at that point, the Carthaginians sue for peace and they try and blame everything on the bar kids. Of course they do. So Scipio orders them to withdraw from Gaul, Spain and Italy.

40:51They have to give up their navy apart from 20 ships and they have to pay a huge fine. Now, this gets a bit tricky. So they provisionally accept this treaty, but it hasn't been formally signed off. And at that point, the Council of Carthaginian Elders finally summoned Hannibal home to Africa. So he's been away for 15 years? Oh, much longer. Really? Yeah, he's been away for more than 35 years. Oh, from home. Yeah. But he left with his elephants in 218, was he? Yes, yes. So he's been away from Spain. So he's been in Italy. Right. So he's been at war in Italy for 15 years. Yeah. And then suddenly he gets a letter saying, get home.

41:29Yeah, yeah. Come home. Yeah. And then what happens is that Carthage breaks this, certainly what Rome think is a truce, by looting Roman supply vessels. Some Roman envoys get attacked by a mob at Carthage. And the Council of Elders encourages Hannibal to go after Scipio. And Hannibal, first of all, he tries to negotiate a slightly milder treaty with Scipio, but Scipio refuses. And then you have the Battle of Zama, and this is the final big Roman victory in Africa. So the reason that Scipio is known as Scipio Africanus is because he wins the Battle of Zama and defeats Carthage in Africa. Both sides suffer heavy losses, and Livy praises Hannibal for his command.

42:18but in the end the Carthaginians are defeated and there is a final peace treaty which means that Carthage now can't fight wars outside Africa. They have to pay 10 ,000 silver talents to find a massive amount of money. They have to hand over all their elephants and they have to reduce their fleet to 10 ships. The rest of the fleet is burned. It's handing over your elephants like in a movie where a sort of maverick cop have to turn on. shielding gun. It's like... There you go, chief. Yeah. Sorry, Sarge. But I'm still going to pursue the case. Oh, wow. So only ten ships left. They can't leave North Africa.

43:00This mighty empire that we met at the beginning of the episode. Yeah. It's all gone wrong under Hannibal. He's bungled it. That's one way of looking at it. I mean, he does disappear from the records for a few years after that. But then he comes back. He comes back. So he comes back to politics in Carthage. you know, where he hasn't been since he's a child. And so he becomes one of the two Shoffets, who are the two kind of senior magistrates at Carthage, 196 BCE. And apparently he's good. He reorganises state finances to pay off the war debt. He changes the constitution to reduce the power of traditional ruling families.

43:42But the next year he gets into trouble with Rome. So the Romans by now have moved on. They're fighting the king of Syria, the Seleucid king, Antiochus III. And they hear that Hannibal is in contact with Antiochus. And even though Scipio himself defends Hannibal in the Roman Senate, they believe that he's plotting behind their back with Antiochus. So Scipio, the former enemy who defeated him at Zama, says, no, no, no. Hannibal's a good bloke. He wouldn't do this. He's definitely keeping by the peace treaty. Yeah. Do we trust that, Darren? No. No. Wow. Oh, and he was burning inside him, I bet. Just so angry.

44:32All those winds and that one time, everything just goes downhill. I mean, so, Jo, in terms of what we know, was Hannibal colluding with Antiochus of Syria? OK, we don't know. But when Rome asks Carthage to indict him, he's outlawed and he does flee to Antiochus' court. And he does then play kind of a minor role in Antiochus' war with Rome. But then the Romans defeat the Seleucids and, again, they demand that they give up Hannibal and he escapes again. He goes further east and he ends up in the kingdom of Bithynia on the Black Sea. And he's also got famously an amazing military or naval tactic.

45:16Yeah, so he helps the Bithynians in their war against the Attalids, who are Roman allies in Anatolia. He organises that they throw pots of snakes at Attalids' ships. I love it! A four Attalids! Throw pots of snakes. Yeah, I don't think they're burning snakes. No. I think they're just snakes. Just throw pots of snakes. Oh, my God. It's great. Yeah, I mean, I've seen snakes on a plane. I would definitely watch snakes on a ship. Snakes on a ship. Yeah, snakes in pots. Somebody get rid of these snakes off this ship. Does anyone have Samuel O 'Jackson's agent on the phone? Because I've got a plot for him.

45:52I mean, he's a genius, wasn't he? He's definitely a real good thinker. When you said Anatolia, that's what, West Turkey? Yeah, Turkey. So he's really got around the place, right? We started in North Africa, then Spain, then he sort of crossed into Italy. Yeah, back to North Africa. Back to North Africa, then did a run into Syria, then Turkey. And then up to Turkey, and then ends up on the Black Sea. God, he must have some serious air miles. I know, right? Got lounge pass and everything, yes? Okay, Darren, do you know what happens to Hannibal in the end? No, no, he... I mean, he defeats the Romans.

46:26Oh, you're clinging to that story, eh? It just sounds great. it's either no I don't know what happens to him how okay how does he die I don't think it's going to be in battle okay I think just one of those like stupid deaths that happens back then or something that's what I honestly I really think was it an animal did an elephant accidentally fall on him there is a famous king who was crushed by his own elephant right there I think I think he ran up he was fighting against elephants he ran underneath it stabbed it with a spear from underneath and the elephant just sat on him Yeah, how did you do that?

47:01I can't remember the name of the king, but that is a famous death. Joe, what happened to my new hero? So, OK, the Romans beat the Bithynians. Bit of a broken record at this point. And the peace treaty stipulates they have to give up Hannibal. And at this point, he's run out of road at this point. And reportedly, he always carried poison with him in case he was captured by the Romans. So he seems to have died by suicide. sometime around 182 BCE. So, Joe, how old was Hannibal when he died? About 65. Oh, that's way above the average back then, isn't it? Oh, he did all right. You know what, Hannibal, it's all right.

47:41Yeah. 65. Just always has a bit of poison in his pocket. Yeah. Just in case. He's got some cyanide capsule in there, isn't he? Yeah. It's quite the life, Darren. Well, quite the life, yeah. He's one heck of a traveller. I really like the fact that he just wouldn't give up. He just always had it in his heart that he just didn't like them, just wanted to get them. And he nearly did. Oh, poor guy. Are you ready for the Vin Diesel movie? Yeah. I wonder what car he's going to be going around all these places in.

48:19Wow. Hannibal of Carthage, quite the career. The Nuance Window!

48:28OK, time now for the nuance window. This is where Darren and I sit silently in the command tent to strategise for two minutes, while Professor Jo takes centre stage to tell us something we need to know about ancient North Africa. So my stopwatch is ready. Take it away, Professor Quinn. Thank you. OK, so after all these men and all their battles, I want to talk about a Carthaginian woman who plays her own important role in the war between Carthage and Rome by marrying not one but two Numidian kings and in the end proved braver than both of them. So Sofinesba was an aristocratic Carthaginian woman, Saphonbaal in her own language.

49:06We hear that she was beautiful, learned, musical and she was the daughter of the general Hasdrubal Disco, who we've seen being defeated by the Romans in 203. And what we're told is that in 206, she had been engaged to the local Numidian king, Masinissa, and he controlled the inland region beyond Carthaginian territory, so in a lot of what's now Tunisia. The Carthaginian Senate, though, ordered her to marry his rival Syphax instead, and Syphax ruled most of what's now Algeria, from Kirtam on Constantine. Syphax was considered a more important strategic ally to Carthage than Masinissa, and Sofhanisba accepted this decision, but Masinissa wasn't happy and this is supposedly what persuaded him to throw his support and his crack cavalry behind Rome instead of Carthage and this was absolutely crucial for Rome's eventual victory at Zama.

50:05Meanwhile Sofhanisba had persuaded her new husband Syphax to stick with Carthage in the final stages of the war but in the end after Scipio defeated Hasdrubogisco in 203 with Massinissa's help. Massinissa himself wins a decisive victory over Syphax with Roman help and he takes the other king prisoner and he comes to Keir to take possession of his palace and his wife. And so Sofhanisba and Massinissa finally marry. But when Scipio, when the Roman general finds out that Sofhanisba had played a decisive role in Syphax's calculations against Rome, he demands that Massinissa turn her over to him as a prisoner and that's not going to happen.

50:48So instead Massinissa offers his new bride a cup of poison which she courageously drinks and then he takes Scipio, her corpse. I have to say he can't have been too upset though because he then remains an ally of Rome for 50 years. So that's men for you. What a story. Thank you, Jo. I mean, Sof and Isma, she really, I mean, she played quite a dangerous game there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she was in all the rooms where it happened. Right. Wow, extraordinary. I mean, final thoughts on that, Darren? It's not just Hannibal. No. I mean, yeah, she definitely played a dangerous game. The idea of giving her poison and then just bringing her body and then being like, well, OK, just messaged me later.

51:32We'll keep talking. There's her body for you. Wow, it's crazy. I guess it's just everybody just wants to survive, don't they? They just do whatever they can, even if it is brutal. Did you say, did she know it was poison? Yeah, she knew. She knew, she knew. Yeah, yeah. No, she was absolutely in on it. She didn't want to be a prisoner of Rome any more than he did. Wow. She was like, are you going to take it? No, no, no, afterwards. You first. I've just cleaned my teeth, actually. I don't want to. Yeah. So what do you know now?

52:08This is our quickfire quiz for Darren to see how much he has learned today. Darren, I think you've enjoyed it. I've had a great time. Honestly, every time something fun, really fun, whether it was war or just Hannibal's general attitude, I really enjoyed, I stopped writing because I was just too invested in the story. Every battle I was just so invested in. And him being a lover of animals as well, of course. Well, you say lover of animals. I mean, he killed a lot of animals. Killed a lot of animals. Could you imagine the ones he practised on? Just to see what worked. You don't immediately light the cows on fire.

52:43You have to practice first. Still a hero. Darren, I've got ten questions for you. Oh, here we go. These are all things we've talked about, but let's see how you do. Okay, question one. What was the name of Hannibal's father? Oh, it was a similar... Han... Han... Han... Han... Han... Hamil... Car. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, yeah, well done. Hamil Car Barker, well done. Question two. What childhood oath did Hannibal reportedly swear aged nine? Oh, it was... I'll never have allegiance to Rome or something. Yeah, that's it. Never be a friend of Rome. There we go. Question three. Hannibal's defying of Roman orders and besieging Saguntum incited which major war?

53:21Oh, no. Say that again. Hannibal defying the Roman orders, besieging the city of Saguntum on the border in his lands, incited which major war? I can't remember. Was that the Punic War? Yeah. The first Punic War. Second. Second. Yeah, I'll never. Well done. Question four How did the Carthaginians transport elephants across the Rhone River? Oh it was a whole convoluted they had to put something on the floor to make it look like it was grass on a river and then they had to go across and then they got the females first Yeah Very good Well done According to the Roman historian Livy why didn't Hannibal besiege Rome in 211 BCE?

53:56Oh well there was oh because there was too many army there it was just bad timing And also the weather And there was a storm Yeah Supposed to be like a hell storm Hell storm Very good Well done And diverting troops to Spain as well apparently. Question six, how did Hannibal defeat the much bigger Roman army at the famous Battle of Cannae? I can't remember what it was called but he basically tricked them, lured them into the centre and then just took them out and made his centre seem like it was easy and easy to take. Very good, the pincer movement of doom. There we go. Question seven, what role did Hannibal assume in Carthage after losing the second Punic War?

54:27What role? Wasn't he in politics? He was, yeah he was a chief magistrate. Well done, I'll let you have that. Question eight, name two of the ensuing peace conditions between Rome and Carthage that were forced on the Carthagans? Basically, they couldn't leave the area. They had to stay in the area and they had to give up set fire to all their ships, leave 10. Was that what it was? That's two. And hand over their elephants. Oh yeah! And pay a big fine to 10 ,000 silver talents. Question nine. Which Roman general defeated Carthage but then defended Hannibal in the Senate when Hannibal was accused of plotting against Rome in Syria?

55:01I can't remember the full name, but it was a Skippia the Sun, right? That's it. Skippia the Sun. Very good. This for a perfect 10. What measure did Hannibal allegedly take against possible Roman capture? Oh, poisoned himself. He did. You nailed it, Darren. 10 out of 10. That was great. Thank you. Fantastic. Well done. I can't wait to see Vin Diesel play this guy. I'm very excited. I mean, the budget on the animal handlers alone. I know, right? I mean, honestly. Family. Elephants go. Who's Dwayne the Rock Johnson going to play? That's what I want to know. Thank you so much, Darren. And of course, thank you so much, Professor Joe.

55:40Listener, if you want more from Darren, of course, check out the episode on Victorian bodybuilding. That was also huge fun. For more plucky generals from history, we've got episodes on Joan of Arc, Julius Caesar, the younger, well, the young Julius Caesar, Robert Bruce, of course. And remember, if you've enjoyed the podcast, please share the show with friends. Subscribe to You're Dead to Me, either on BBC Sounds in the UK to get episodes 28 days early, or if you're outside the UK, use the BBC app or the bbc.com website. I'd just like to say a huge thank you to our guests in History Corner. We have the amazing Professor Josephine Quinn from the University of Cambridge.

56:11Thank you, Jo. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. And in Comedy Corner, we have the dazzling Darren Harriot. Thank you so much, Darren. Thank you so much for having me. Loved it. And to you, lovely listener, join me next time as we lay siege to another tricky historical topic. But for now, I'm off to go and teach elephants how to ski. Winter Olympics, here we come. Bye!

56:32Your Dead to Me is a BBC Studios production for BBC Radio 4.

56:47I'm Rory Stewart and I want to talk about heroes. When I was a child, I imagined a heroic future for myself in which I would achieve great things and die sacrificing my life for a noble cause before I was 30. But my experiences in the Middle East and in politics showed me that there was something deeply wrong with my idea of heroism. From BBC Radio 4, my podcast, The Long History of Heroism, explores ideas of what it meant to be a hero through time. How have these ideas changed? Who are the heroes we need today? Listen to Rory Stewart, The Long History of Heroism, first on BBC Sounds.

57:28How did a boycott Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos? On Good Bad Billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, Mr Beast, made his fortune. He's buried himself in a coffin for days. Counted to 100 ,000 on camera. And even recreated Squid Games, all in an attempt to go viral on the internet. But it all started when he gave a homeless man$10 ,000. So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism? Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on Good Bad Billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.