Philippe, Duc d’Orléans: in the shadow of the Sun King

25:51Very convenient. Yeah. So Philippe is now the Duke d 'Orléans. Henriette is now the Duchess of Orléans. So Mr. and Mrs. Orléans, whatever the rules are. So they're married. And I mean, Philippe and Louis' dad took 23 years to have kids. We know Philippe prefers men. So do they have kids? Yeah, right away. Did they? Yeah. So much to everybody's surprise, probably. They have a daughter called Marie-Louise right away. And then there's a boy who doesn't live very long called the Duke of Valois. and another girl a bit later called Marie-Anne. So they do have children. And this, I think, is probably the most vicious part of Philippe's story that I read about when I was studying all these things, is that if Henriette was outshining him at court, he had a weapon at his disposal, which was making her pregnant.

26:40Oh my! Isn't that awful? So if she wanted to be at court, you want to be there at the winter, because the winter is when all the balls are. And so he would make her pregnant right in time so that she couldn't be there in the winter and had to go to the country house. That is such a gay thing to do.

26:58It's quite a sort of jealous move, isn't it? It really is. To scupper your wife. And you can use the Bible to support it and say, I'm the husband. It's my right to make you pregnant whenever I want. I am Nina Khrushcheva, the great-granddaughter of Nikita Khrushchev, the leader of the Soviet Union in 1962. And I'm Max Kennedy, the nephew of U.S. President John F. Kennedy. we explore what was a terrifying moment in history. The story of the Cuban Missile Crisis. How close the world came to nuclear war. And what they had to do to pull it back from the brink. The bomb, Kennedy and Khrushchev. All episodes available now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

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28:16so we get the saint henriette and philippe there's love there but there's also real rivalry there and petty jealousies she cheats on him yeah so we can go back to la grand mademoiselle who's a great source of information here she's writing writing writing um and there's a guy called the comte de guiche who's this very handsome man who comes in um Compte Quiche. Quiche Lorraine. And Guiche is very violent and very, I think he's a top. And Philippe, I think, likes that. I mean, there's stories of him sort of being beaten almost by Guiche, which are a little weird. But Henriette sweeps in and takes him as her boyfriend.

29:00So, yeah, the tension mounts constantly. So they're sharing a lover? Not really, because Geish, well, we don't really know. But I think he goes from him to her. Was, again, I suppose, in our actually quite prudish post-Victorian age, we don't really acknowledge that I think love, free love, if you like, was much more the case in aristocratic circles. Is that fair to say? Yes, and it comes and goes. So the 1660s, which is the decade we're in now, is very fun. Festivals, parties, drinking. they're all in their 20s The invention of champagne is that sort of decade? So Louis, his wife, Philippe, his wife they're all in their 20s they're having a really good time And the idea of labelling is also not really happening there, that people aren't coming out Right, so there was no concept really of homosexual there was no concept of an identity that you would choose or not choose A lot of it was just down to practice what did you do?

29:59And of course there's always the Greek education and boys are meant to shag for a little while and then you eventually marry and have children. So putting a label on it is difficult and I think a lot of things are much more fluid and you could be married but also having sex with a man on the side and I don't think people really cared. Yeah, I was going to say. Or they did care and I think we should be clear to say this is, like you said, a very upper class thing. So middle class people, they're tutting away. Yes. The job is almost always, if you can keep this inside the court, that's fine. But once the general population of France starts talking about it, then you have to stop.

30:42So people like Guiche are sent away. Have your Guiche. Have your Guiche and eat it. Well, we go from Guiche to Lorraine because actually the next man is the Chevalier de Lorraine. Oh my goodness. On ITV at 9am. Have you ever heard of the Chevalier de Lorraine? The horseman of Lorraine? No. Yeah, the knight of Lorraine. Oh, yeah. Is that right? No, I haven't actually. As I say, only his quiche. It's a delightful quiche. Very nice. I mean, Jonathan, this, I think it's fair to say, is Philippe's great love. Yes. Other men come and go in this story, but the Chevalier de Lorraine and Philippe are together for about 40 years.

31:20Really? Yeah, which I've never found an example like that in the 17th century of two men together like that. From everything I've read, people didn't mind that Philippe was having a boyfriend. What they didn't like was that he was being dominated because a prince, which is what I think the TV show Versailles got wrong, by the way. And so the Chevalier de Lorraine is a great character because he was good looking. He was charming. He was from a really old family, the oldest family in Europe. But he had no money at all. So he was totally dependent on Philippe. And they had this romantic meetup. I think they'd known each other since boys because their mothers were great friends.

31:59But finally, they are both sent off to war together in 1667. The Chevalier gets wounded. Philippe nurses him back to health. And it's very romantic, very sweet story. And then they're together for the next 40 years. A 40-year relationship in some regards, lovely, beautiful, wonderful. In other ways, he is married. How do you think Henriette, his wife, dealt with... Yeah, I know you did. How do you think she dealt with a chevalier? How do you think she handled him? But she's still... Isn't she off with... What's his name? Quiche. Quiche, yeah. She's having her quiche and eating it. She's... So she's...

32:33Is he still knocking around with her? No, they've sent him off to the front. Oh, God. Once it got too scandalous, he had to be sent away. Sent off to war. To hopefully get shot. You know. Yeah. Oh, so imagine she's furious then. Yes, she's furious and the Chevalier and Henriette don't get along and they're always throwing barbs at each other. But then the interesting twist comes along when she decides really that she wants to be a lot more politically active, which is unusual for a woman at the time. But if you've got the talent for it, and she did. And so Louis XIV needed more allies. So he sent her off to England to meet with her brother.

33:12And Henriette and Charles have a tete-a-tete in Dover. They sign a treaty. A secret treaty, right? A secret treaty. Well, parts of it are secret, yeah. The Treaty of Dover. I mean, it's scandalous when it's revealed that Charles II basically says, I will take a massive bribe and become a Catholic. No, really? Yes, really. That's why it was a secret. Big secret. Yeah. Oh, wow, I didn't know he became... Well, he didn't because his ministers found out. Yeah. Big ish there. Heads rolled. Henriette, or Henriette, was triumphant. She had succeeded in really changing the alliances in Europe. She comes back to France in triumph.

33:53Everyone is saying, what a great job she's had. And this is June of 1670. She suddenly becomes very sick after drinking chicory, which is sort of like hot chocolate, and dies very soon after. Oh, no. It wasn't? Well, so she said, I'm poisoned. I'm poisoned. as people were gathering around her. And so everyone presumably pointed a finger at Philippe. Or the Chevalier. Or the Chevalier, right. Because she'd had a word with her brother and the Chevalier had been turfed out for a bit. Right. So he's actually not in the country. So I don't think he poisoned her unless it was very complicated. He was in Rome.

34:27So Louis XIV thought that the Chevalier was too embarrassing in terms of global politics. And he wanted this alliance with England. And Charles II was saying, well, you've got to get rid of that guy. So they did. because of the... Scandal. Because of the scandal. Yeah. The idea that, like, this debauched gay couple were coming across the water. So Henriette tragically died. The Chevalier de Lorraine returned. I bet he did. Yeah. Straight on his horse. Shows up at the funeral. Yeah, I bet. Just the outfit. Yeah. Failed and everything. And so, you know, we have now Philippe, the father of children, no longer married, with a stable boyfriend.

35:10There's no real reason for him to remarry. Not necessarily, no. But Louis XIV only has one son. And even though the Dauphin is now 10, he still could die. Chicory happens. Chicory happens.

35:25And Louis XIV needs new allies. England turned out to not be a good ally at all. And so he looks to Germany and the German princely states. He can't marry Habsburg because they're the enemy. Who's second best? There's a state called the Palatinate. which controls the Middle Rhine. And so Louis XIV gets a girl from the Palatinate who is a wonderful character that we'll talk about a bit more now called Elizabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate. We call her Lise Lotte, which is not really correct. It's what the Germans called her. Lizzie with a Z. She's called Madame Palatine by the French. So she marries in from Germany, which means presumably she's a Protestant?

36:04Yes, she is. So this is all quite awkward, right? Because the Catholic royal family of France on marrying a Protestant princess. Yeah, but France being France and being the most powerful dynasty in Europe, the Bourbons, they can demand a lot. Right. And so the elector Palatine pretends that he doesn't know about the marriage. He actually releases a statement that says, oh my goodness, my daughter has gotten married and I know nothing about it. And she travels to the frontier, she goes to Metz, and within one day, she does catechism, she renounces heresy, she becomes a Catholic all in one day. In a crash course.

36:38Yeah, crash course. So by the end of the day, she's a good Catholic girl and they get married. Lisa Lotte is a fantastically enjoyable character. Her letters are incredible. They're so funny. She herself, how does she describe herself, Jonathan? So we are so lucky as historians that she left behind thousands of letters. Almost every day she wrote letters to relatives either in England or in Germany. And they are hilariously funny. She puts a good foot forward at beginning. She loves hunting. Louis XIV loves hunting. They become really close right away. Let Philippe do his decorating at home. Yes, he's got things to do.

37:17He's got a watercolor class to do. And they have children. So at the first, the marriage is going well. But she then gets larger. And she herself, in her letters, says, oh, I've become very broad. And she even has a very funny letter where she says, you know, I've always made fun of my ugliness. Quote, my father and my late brother often told me how unattractive I was. I laughed it off and never cared. My brother called me badger nose and I laughed even harder. Bless her. She sounds like a lot of fun. I have a lot of time for her. Yeah. Yes. It's quite self-deprecating then. Her kind of health care regime is great.

37:54Yeah. That's really interesting to think of. It's very German. Yes. So she's seeing that there are these royal and aristocratic children dying, basically, because French medicine is so weird. Oh. And so she says, nope, we need open windows. we need healthy fresh air crazy ideas like that yeah like Florence Nightingale does yeah so she's way ahead of time and she does a five mile walk every day in wind and rain she's sort of out there physical you know strong and hilariously funny her letters are fantastic I think they're I think they're digitised I'm not sure if they're translated but there's lots of different collections and translations but she's an absolute hoot-lisa lotter the most famous one maybe is about farting yeah I'm sure you're talking about that very quickly if you can well it's one of the etiquette moments where they're standing waiting for the king to walk into a room and two of her children fart and then the father says, well, I can make music better than that and he farts and then Madame says, well, and she outfarts them all.

38:50She's the Celia Emery. I was going to say, God, they had those windows open. I was a fan of that. But we must talk about the Chevalier again because he came back into the picture. He will not leave the picture, will he? He's not getting the memo and 1672, he's back in the life and he sort of ruins the honeymoon period with Lisa Lotta. I bet he absolutely hates poor old Lisa Lotta. Yeah, maybe, yeah. It sounds like she's funnier than him, which gays hate. They suffer tragedy, the couple, right? They lose a child. Yeah, so there is another boy that's born, but he only lives a year or so. And so they do suffer this tragedy, which brings them together.

39:27And I think throughout all of it, even if he has this boyfriend and other boyfriends, they do feel like a really good couple for the rest of their lives so it's a very strange kind of three-way relationship and they raise their children together and they're very very proud of their children two more daughters no sorry one one more daughter but then once the child-rearing age kind of passes i think the chevalier decides now is my time again and i want to be really the head of this household really yeah so ambitious he is very ambitious and and all All the commentators say he runs Philippe's household, which is quite a lot of people, two or three hundred people.

40:05Art collections. We haven't talked so much about these two houses. There's the Palais Royal in Paris, and there's a palace called Saint-Cloud on the outskirts of Paris, which is just as grand as Versailles. It has its own gilded chambers, its own hall of mirrors, spectacular gardens, amazing fountains. And he's in charge, in a way, of all that. I bet he is. The children, we should mention their names It's another Philippe, little Philippe Duke de Chartres and Elizabeth Charlotte So after 1677 their relationship is struggling but we need to talk about something that might be a little surprising We've talked about Philippe as a man of great flair and theatre and culture and laughter He's also a great warrior Warrior or warrior?

40:52Oh that's a good point, I mean technically probably a bit of both, but warrior warrior. Oh, he's a good fighter. He's a good fighter. He's a lover and a fighter. A lover and a fighter. Goodness me. He goes to war. Yes. So that's one of the interesting shocks of the life is that they go to war. It's boringly called the Dutch War in the middle of the 1670s. And Philippe has been sent off before, but usually as a sort of observer, or maybe he does a diversionary tactic one day and make sure that Louis gets the glory. But at one point in 1677, he's in Flanders on his own and the king isn't there and it's a small village called Castle and our good friend William III who's also in favour of boys Oh I didn't know that Yes they face each other on the battlefield and surprise surprise Philippe trounces him Oh Yeah So William III would of course be King William of England right?

41:42Right not yet Not yet So in 1677 he's the stat holder of the Netherlands Yeah He's the Prince of Orange But he will be William as in William and Mary Right in 10 years time he will become William and Mary in this country. So Philip wins a huge victory at the Battle of Castle, but do you know what he was doing at the start of the battle? His nails? Almost. He was adjusting his wig. The battle had started, his men were fighting, and he was still in his tent. Oh, which I absolutely respect. And I think the men would have respected him for that as well. You can't go to battle, you know, with a loose fringe.

42:11Absolutely, yes. And what would the wigs have been? I'm thinking they're dark, they're sort of brunette at this point, and quite long. Long and curls. But this is Philippe's shining military moment. And he gets back to Paris, back to Versailles. And his brother, the king, says... Basically nothing. Oh, no. After all he did for him. It was a very frigid moment. And we have a memoir later who says, the king supposedly said, I would have really, really given millions to have won a battle. Because Louis XIV has never actually won a battle. So he's jealous. Very jealous. And guess what happens after that?

42:49They go to battle with each other. No. Good guess, though. I mean, that's the obvious thing. They have a lot of jewels. Luckily, the love wins out, I suppose. They never go to war with each other, but Louis strips him of military command. Right. So I think in the history of their relationship between the brothers, Louis and Philippe, this is really the high point of Louis being a really, I think, awful brother to Philippe and not treating him very well. And that carries on then for the next decade. He doesn't give him another command ever again. because I think he's embarrassed and he doesn't like little brother having done so well in a battle.

43:23Because Philippe had been shot, the bullet had bounced off his armour, his horse had been killed. He's fighting in the middle of this. He's not at the back adjusting his wig the whole time. He's there. He's in the firing line. And so Louis is like, screw you. And that ends his military career. And so at that time, kings were still going into battle. They weren't expected to be a figurehead at the back. More or less. Yes, I mean, it's already moving towards that. You're right, yes. So Louis XIV does go to battle, but generally stands on the white horse, poses for the painter and then leaves. So Louis XIV is the sun king and the sun shines very brightly and Philippe is often in his shadow.

44:01Yeah. Literally, right? Yeah, and he has to be. Okay, so what do you think Philippe does to find a new path to independence from his brother? What's his new career move? Musicals.

44:15or crypto yeah crypto is big he sort of goes into finance and business and oh okay he's suddenly very good with his pennies yeah so the other rather surprising turn you might say for someone who was so frivolous in his 20s now he's in his 30s and 40s he develops his lands his apanage and he builds a canal he builds agricultural systems he makes the land that he's been given profitable, doubles its income and then he gets a big windfall because guess what? La Grand Mademoiselle dies still unmarried and he gets it all Really? So she did like him in the end? Yeah, she gives him all the money and it's not tied to the crown the way his other money is so he becomes financially independent Oh, so it's his private wealth It's his private money Oh, lovely And that's hugely different Oh my, so what did he buy?

45:07Well, they already had the house Oh yeah, so the mortgage was paid off. So Saint-Clau becomes even more amazing. Sadly, none of it's left. What do you mean? Oh, it all was... Yeah, it was destroyed in the 1870s. Oh really? So post-French Revolution? Yeah. Franco-Prussian War. Right, okay. Oh no. So we've got Philippe now as the sort of business mogul. Mm-hmm. Heaven. Still married to Lisa Lotta, of course. Lisa with a Z. And Lisa Lotta, Lisa Lodza now. Yeah, yeah. Wow, so Chevalier's still knocking about in the background? Yeah. Yeah. So the three of them. Yeah. There's three of us in this marriage.

45:44Mighty word. Yes, there is. And by the 1680s or 90s, they do sort of have a modus operandi. They do kind of live together. It works. Happily. They've sort of found a way of existing together at court. She's most interested in her letter writing and her dogs. Oh, fair enough. I can understand that. What does he do all day? They still go to parties. Oh, okay. They're still living it up. They still eat a lot. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. They're berry at this point. Yeah. And you mentioned Moliere. So Moliere, for those who don't know, Moliere is the great comic playwright of 17th century France. He's sort of France's Shakespeare.

46:15He's fantastically funny. And he comes to work for, not the king, but... But Philippe. Philippe. Yeah. So Philippe is given as his first residence, the Palais Royale, which is right in the center of Paris. It's right across the street from the Louvre. And they build a theater in the Palais Royale. And Moliere and his troupe actually live there. And they do plays there. And it's called the Troupe de Monsieur. And so Moliere is Philippe's guy. He also has his own composer, his own painters, his own architects, often people that are out of favor with Louis XIV. So he's sort of the protector, I think, of artists who are not necessarily doing mainstream art.

46:51Philippe's much more interested in Chinese art long before anybody else is. Yeah, so that didn't come in England until the 18th century. About 20 or 30 years later, Philippe's already doing it. So I think he's become a bit of an avant-garde collector, patron with his artists, with his musicians and with his Chinese porcelains, lacquers. Yeah. So he's a collector of interesting people and of interesting, beautiful things. There's even a tour pamphlet, a tour guide booklet that comes out in 1689 that says, if you're in Paris, you should go to the Palais Royale and visit Philippe's art collection.

47:26Amazing. Wow. So if anything, he's kind of got the best gig of all. Having lost out on it originally. And Louis never comes to Paris. He doesn't like Paris. He hates it. Just stays in Versailles. He stays at Versailles. And Philippe is in Paris having parties, collecting art. Oh, my God. His brother has been furious. Can you imagine? So Philippe, by this point, was a brother, a father, a husband, and a grandfather. His kids have kids. Wow. So does that mean he sort of mellows? And at the end of his life, he's doing the crossword and just walking the dogs. Or is it still quite? It's very classically the older gay couple that does at least open an antique shop.

48:04I mean, it's interesting. His son's marriage is complicated. The Duke de Chartres, that's a tricky one, right? Yeah. So the son who does live is called Philippe and he's called the Duke of Chartres. He suffers somewhat from his father's dismissal from the army, basically. And as he gets older, he also wants a military career. And Louis XIV just won't give it to him because he's afraid of outshining the Dauphin, his own son, who turns out to be a bit dull. The Dauphin is sort of described as fat and indolent and doesn't really shine in any way, whereas Chartres is smart and talented. That side of the family is doing really well.

48:41Yes, it's a problem. Against all the arts. So this is where the conflict comes back in. And Philippe and Louis fight a lot about Louis' lack of promotion of Chartres. Tom, given all you know now about Philippe, how do you think he died? What do you think did him in the end? Ham sandwich?

49:01Like Mama Cass. Yes, exactly. Or fell over, tripped up on one of his antiques. No, it's quite sad. He had a big argument with Louis. And the stress kills him, Jonathan? Yeah, that's one of the stories. Some people say maybe not, but it seems at least it contributed to it. Because in the 1690s, he ate a lot. and he sat around a lot and he gets redder and redder in the face and there is a story that he goes to Versailles and argues with Louis about Chartres not being given a job and then he's so angry and shouts at Louis which is incredible if you think about it shouting at Louis, nobody does that The most powerful man in Europe at this point Louis XIV is unbelievably powerful And then goes back to Saint-Cloud his house, has a heart attack and dies What we know about the death of Philippe is that the king can't be present So he had left and gone back to Versailles.

49:55And Philippe dies at Saint-Cloud. And the first thing that his wife does, as she later tells us, she walks straight into his rooms and burns all of his private letters, which are mostly from his male favourites. Because that would have created further scandal for the children, presumably. Right. Yes. Is she protecting Philippe or is she protecting... Petit Philippe. Petit Philippe herself. It's an interesting question, right? Because obviously Queen Victoria's letters were edited and destroyed by her daughter. Oh, were they? Yeah, we don't have many of her love letters. You know, we know there's a big chunk missing.

50:26So that's why my PhD shifted directions. Oh, right. Because I was planning to do my PhD just on him. And then I realised all of his letters were gone. And when Louis XIV finally dies, it's his five-year-old great-grandson who becomes the next king of France. So Louis's been on the throne for so long. His great-grandson is taken over. So it's extraordinary kind of two brothers just occupying power for a long time. A long time. And his great-grandson, is that because the son and the grandson have died? Yeah, that's right. So smallpox is a real decimator. And 1710, 1711, the Dauphin and the Petit Dauphin die.

51:05But Philippe's son, the Duke de Chartres, does become the regent of France. He becomes the Duke of Orléans. So he succeeds his father in the Orléans title and becomes regent of France. And a really good one, too, for about 10 years. The other thing that happened right after Philippe died was that his son, who's the new Duke of Orleans, offered the Chevalier de Lorraine use of his apartments in the Palais-Royal for as long as he wanted. And so he did live there happily, not being turfed out. But he then died as well a year later. Amazing. Tom, have we convinced you the Duke Philippe deserves his podcast?

51:37Oh, yes, I'm sure he would be very pleased to know that we are commemorating him here. But I feel like, given what we've learned, And he probably would expect a little bit more. I think something more like an opera. What a great idea. A bit more razzmatazz. Yes, I feel like someone like Rufus Wainwright would be penning it right now. The nuance window!

52:02Well, it's time now for the nuance window. This is where Tom and I sit quietly to plan our masquerade costumes. I'm going Shepard S, how about you? for two minutes while Jonathan holds court and tells us something we need to know about Philippe, Duke d 'Orléans. So my stopwatch is ready. Take it away, Dr. Jonathan. Okay, thank you. What we've been talking about today, in a nutshell, really, every royal dynasty in history has been faced with a similar conundrum. If you have too many heirs and you cause infighting over the succession, but if you have too few heirs, then your dynasty could go extinct.

52:35So you have an heir and a spare, which is good practice. But you then need to give the spare something to do. Otherwise, he, and in France it's always a he, could go rogue and try to carve out a niche for himself, potentially challenging the power of the older brother, the king. Philippe d 'Orléans found himself in this position. If he did nothing, he was accused of being lazy and unworthy of his princely title. But if he was active in politics or the military, he was accused of being threatening. And so it was a sort of damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario. So, Philippe chose a different path to some of his more aggressive predecessors.

53:09He was fiercely loyal to the king and focused his energies away from politics and more into patronage of the arts, building up his palaces, his gardens, and generally being an additional ornament to the French monarchy. He did his duty in marrying to advance France's diplomatic affairs and in producing extra heirs for the Bourbon dynasty, but he also was a source of potential scandal and disrepute for the French monarchy in his fairly open affairs with men. History has remembered this prince as a fop and a playboy, but we need to view him more in the context of his times, a loyal supporter of his brother Louis XIV, a patron and a collector, and a savvy businessman who laid the foundations for the powerful Orléans dynasty that endured for generations.

53:52Amazing, thank you so much. Tom, final thoughts on Philippe? I suppose what an inspiring person to teach you that even if life hasn't given you the most prominent position, you can actually make a heck of a lot of what you get up to. I mean, it helps, of course, if you are the second son of the most powerful dynasty in Europe at the time. But that aside, go to show, you can still do something. My advice is buy antiques. That's good advice, yeah. Or inherit your spinster cousin's vast fortune. It really helps if you've got a spinster cousin. Yes, absolutely. He's the richest woman in Europe. Yes, make sure to be a Nepo prince with a very connected family.

54:29But as you say, a really interesting person because he sort of defies expectations at quite a lot of the moments in that life story, isn't it? When people want him to sort of challenge his brother, he doesn't. It's intriguing. And he sets the standard for how second sons are then for most of the 18th century. Yeah, and the second son problem is something we've seen all the way through the 20th century with the British royal family, right? Their attention's there. And I won't say any more. So what do you know now?

54:59OK, well, it is time now for the So What Do You Know Now? This is our quickfire quiz for Tom to see how much you've learned today. Tom, are you a confident quizzer? Well, I am, but then I've done pub quizzes and I can't get anything right. So I don't know. I like to think I retain knowledge, but maybe I... We've had a nice chat today, I think. Well, it's just, you know what I love about history is the fact that it teaches you the things, but then it fires synapses off to go, oh, what about that? And where does that fit there? And how does that connect with that? And I suppose that means that that time was a bit like X, Y, Z.

55:31And you did that very well. You were very good at connecting it to other histories. I was kind of doing that to try and impress you both. I feel very impressed. But I'm sure it would be very tedious for the listeners. I'm sorry. Not at all. Okay, well, I've got ten questions for you. And these are all things we've discussed today. So let's see how you go. Okay, question one. Who was Philippe's more famous older brother? King Louis XIV. Absolutely. An easy one to start with. Question two. What shocking costume did Philippe wear to a ball in 1659? A shepherdess. Yeah. Question three. With whom did Philippe begin a 40-year affair in 1667?

56:03Chevalier. It was. The Chevalier de Lorraine. Question four. What was the name of Philippe's problematic uncle? Gaston. It was Gaston. Question five. Name one of Philippe's two wives. Henriette. That's right. Henriette and Lise Lotta. Question six. Which battle did Philippe win against the Dutch in 1677? The Battle of the Dutch. It begins with C? Oh, Castille. Cassel, Cassel. Yeah, I'll give you that. Question seven. How did Louis respond to Philippe's success at Cassel? By doing nothing. He just ignored it. And then stripped him of his future military titles. Jealous brother behaviour. He didn't let his son even become a Duke of Chartres.

56:42That's right, yeah. Question eight. How did Philippe gain some independence from his brother all the same? Well, he farmed better and so made more money that way, but then inherited his cover. Farmer Phil. That's it. Farmer Phil, yes. That's quite a different vibe for him, isn't it? Yeah. It happens though with a lot of gays, you know, when they get older, they like to get into like country file and gardening and things. Why not? Question nine. What was Philippe allegedly doing right before he had a fatal stroke or heart attack? Arguing with his brother. He was. And this for a perfect 10 out of 10.

57:14What did Lisa Lotta burn immediately after Philip's death? His emails. I mean, letters. His emails. A flawless run, Tom. Never in doubt. 10 out of 10. Well done. Well, I'm very proud of myself. I'm quite nervous about that. How have other people done? How did Nish Kumar do? Nish did well. Did he get 10? He might have got 10. I think he might have got 10. Damn it. He got 11 out of 10, apparently, I'm told. I'm sure he did. He got 10 out of 11 with a bonus question. I didn't rely on any notes I want to point out as well. You have a blank page. All I wrote down was Lisa Lotta. and that wasn't even the answer I gave and yeah she would have enjoyed that because she loved letters I mean well done because most of the comedians who come on are making extensive notes whereas you've done that entirely from your brain power well they're probably thickers

58:00amazing well thank you so much Tom for coming on an absolute pleasure thank you Dr Jonathan listener if you want more fascinating French royals check out our episodes on Catherine de Medici or Marie Antoinette for more LGBTQ history listen to our episodes on Benedetta Carlini, the saucy sexy nun, and of course the Bloomsbury Group with Susie Ruffell, your friend Tom. And remember, if you've enjoyed the podcast, please share the show with your friends, subscribe to You're Dead to Me on BBC Sounds to hear new episodes 28 days earlier than anywhere else. And if you're outside the UK, you can listen at bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

58:33And I'd just like to say, of course, a huge thank you to our guests in History Corner from Manchester Metropolitan University. We have the superb Dr Jonathan Spangler. Thank you, Jonathan. them. Thank you very much. It's been fun. It has been fun. And in Comedy Corner, we had the terrific Tom Allen. Merci beaucoup, Tom. Durian. Beautifully done. And to you, lovely listener, join me next time as we give another spare from history the attention they deserve. But for now, I'm off to go and buy a Shepard-esque costume and a wig. Bye!

59:03You're Dead to Me is a BBC Studios audio production for BBC Radio 4. This episode was researched by Emma Mitchell. It was written by Dr. Emmy Rose Price-Goodfellow, Dr. Emma Nagus and me. The audio producer was Steve Hankey and our production coordinator was Jill Huggett. It was produced by Dr. Emmy Rose Price-Goodfellow, me and senior producer Dr. Emma Nagus. Our executive editor was Philip Sellers.

59:27Hello, I'm Robin Inch. Sat next to me is Brian Cox, but I don't want him saying anything yet because I am so excited by our new series of Infinite Monkey Cage where we're talking about timekeeping, brain-computer interfaces, fusion. We're talking about the romantic and sexual behaviour of monkeys and clouds. But most importantly, Brian, what else are we talking about? Eels. We are, aren't we? Eels is one of the most fascinating programmes, if not the most fascinating. Eels. I don't really want to talk about anything else, to be honest. So, basically, there's news of Infinite Monkey Cage, but on Brian Copps' advice, don't listen to any of them, apart from the episode about eels.

59:59It's because we don't know much about them. Don't tell them that. Listen first on BBC Sounds.

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