843. - Michael M. Grynbaum

23:08My editor was like, would wake up. He'd be like shocked because like typically they're like calling me at like 10 a.m. to like see where I am. You have literal borrowed time. We have to moved to london i just can't wake up early enough so we got to relocate the time zone things really hurting me so when you go to hawaii you're fucked oh i was when i'm in la i'm like i'm fucked and also i was i lived in la for like a couple months this year and um i always used to make fun of actually chris you and i talked about this for that i did this piece about how new york was becoming la like after the pandemic yes um and uh i and i always make made fun of people in la for like you know eating dinner at like 6 30 or whatever it is i moved there for like two months i was like falling asleep at 9 30 at night it was like done it's the culture it's the culture and it's good for you if you don't like the action you know because you really you can find it if you want it but it's not in your face in the same way it is in new york and it was different pre-covid

24:02Jason Stewart:you think absolutely i mean there were nightclubs yeah sure before covid sure hollywood has no nightclubs just straight up that is i mean that is a big change that is a big change why were you Did you come to London just to write? Oh, so my wife's a screenwriter, so she kind of ends up working in all different places. So I kind of get the benefit of just following her around. Uh-oh. Okay, so we got a little competitive household then, it sounds like, where we're in the same field. Yeah, what's the word count versus word count looking like on a day-to-day basis? Every day at dinner, you guys sit down and compare word counts before you dig into your roasted chicken?

24:41Luckily, I would say there are different genres of writing. Sure, they are. So there's not the direct competition. But no, we reach other's drafts. My wife's actually a great editor, although she says I'm very bad at being edited. I lash out in a way that I have to... Do you lash out at the person from your publisher, or do you just lash out at your wife when she's doing it to be nice? Whoever's giving you notes gets the claws. Gets the smoke. They can take it. We installed a rule where we couldn't read each other's drafts when we were in the same room. Because part of it was... Because for my wife, because she writes a lot of comedy stuff, it was like, if I wasn't laughing out loud, that in itself was this negative signal about the draft.

25:25Jason Stewart:You can't hear Shorty with a, oh, that's really funny. And then I would have to be out of the room because the tension had grown too much. But we actually worked together pretty. We'd kind of work on opposite ends of a living room table. So during the pandemic, when we were kind of locked in the same unit, we found a peaceful working arrangement. That's beautiful. I'm glad you guys figured out where your boundaries are and you're able to work around and through them. Were you able to, was it easier to figure out the working writing schedule and, you know, just atmosphere? Or was it more difficult to work out what we're going to get for dinner?

26:06Jason Stewart:You know what I mean? On Postmates? No, the Postmates, no, that can create some major tensions. Yeah. You don't always want soup five days a week, do you, Michael? Are you guys in Brooklyn or are you in the city? No, we live in the East Village. Oh, wow. You're a winner. I knew it I knew it because I think that part of me was going to be like this motherfucker is going to be like park slope but you said east village like a man and I love with the shawl neck you never know that's true the shawl neck could throw me off oh I just do laps around prospect every morning so that threw me off but east village there's so many options it can be debilitating honestly the dining options in the east village are some would say most diverse in the city there's so much all the time move over queens I feel like my biggest perk from here so I'm like a block from Russ and Daughters.

26:53Because I can do the 3 p.m. on a weekday Russ and Daughters where you just walk right in. We know the guy without job vibe. Don't worry. We kind of mastered that here on How Long Gone. We know all about it.

27:04Jason Stewart:It's a perk of having a flexible schedule. You can go to very, very busy restaurants at the right time when they're not very busy. The off-peak East Village living perks are, I would say, top-notch. And also, So I feel like so when Chris, you and I talked like when when there was like this L.A. vibe coming into my neighborhood because I was getting like remedy place, like all these like kind of wellness centers. And Jelena, Jelina, I always mispronounce it. Jelena, Jelena, Jelena's actually we can get into it, but I go there relatively often because it's really nice. It's very well done, and I love any business that does a fire insurance scam.

27:51That's one of my favorite. I want to support you. If you successfully scam an insurance company, then I'm going to support your restaurant until you close. Little Abbot Kinney Lightning, they call that. Yeah, yeah. It's a regional. But you're saying, I don't know if it's thriving as far as business goes, but you're saying you saw the stuff creeping in and that's why you wrote that story. Yes, exactly. Yeah, because I especially know how area you were getting old and there was like a goop pop up that opened. And and this was like kind of like in the pandemic when when people suddenly like I called up resi and they did they ran this like data analysis for me that found that the New York City reservations had gotten like 45 minutes earlier.

28:37Oh, in aggregate, you know, over that period.

28:40Jason Stewart:6 p.m. is the new 8 p.m. Data-driven. I just have to look for reservations like a layman and see there's no tables at 6 o 'clock. Hey, Siri, give me a resi on the line. By the way, the Jelena on Bond Street is like tick-tocked out, I think. It's like kind of – I find it not pleasant to eat there, actually. Every restaurant is tick-tocked out. Is there something in New York City that's not tick-tocked out, Michael? I'd love to hear about it. How about that matcha place across the street under the OVO store where they give out umbrellas because the line is so long? Oh, right. Or that like it's a Chanel store.

29:13Literally. What is that like poke place on on bleaker that? Oh, that's not that's this bowl. That's that's worth it. Yeah, it's not necessarily poke, but it is it is called fishbowl in their home country of Australia. So I could see how you would get there. You know what? I don't know the nuances of those bowls. I think I need to more of a it's more of a miso salmon or sashimi. But I understand kind of where you're coming from.

29:35Jason Stewart:It's poke inspired accoutrements, though, Michael, you're not wrong there. But it's the busiest restaurant in New York. Like, it's harder to sit down and eat your$20 bowl there than to eat at any real restaurant. Yeah, that is true. I kind of still do the OG Sweetgreen lunch. Welcome home, Michael. Yeah. We have a great new autumn menu. See, the thing about the menu changes at Sweetgreen, if you're a real head, you don't even glance at those because you've got your shit locked in. I live. Personally. I mean, I wait all year for the corn elode bowl. Like that's, that's like the, that's like the highlight of my culinary year.

30:09You have it marked on your calendar, like your wedding anniversary.

30:12Jason Stewart:It's a big year. There was one year where. You've got the corn advent calendar. You're peeling the kernel off every day. There was one year where it just didn't show up. Maybe there was like a corn shortage or something. And I was like, I think I, I might've emailed like the head, like media contact to be like, Oh, I'm like, you know, I'm a New York times reporter. I'm curious what's going on with this corn alode. No comment. No comment. So you're throwing your dick around Trying to see what's up with the Elote ball For the record I don't pull that card out That often but when it comes to the sweet grain Menu choices Dude that's important I mean the flavor of Elote Undeniable I agree As a California corn eater Michael we all had a lot of questions about the fries And you know I think that Somebody had to ask them And I'm glad that you were able to have that direct line of communication Much like any other fry in the world, they just don't deliver well.

31:05Hate that. Also, I feel like the menu has skewed, probably because they need to raise their margins or something, but it's skewed less healthy. Like fries, they're adding a lot of breaded meats and stuff. I think everything's being affected by the protein maxing trend that has taken over our lives. I was at lunch with a friend the other day. We had a full lunch, and then he got a smoothie after because he needed more protein. and he looks good it's clearly working but i'm like i can't have a smoothie on a full stomach like i would rather i would rather raw dog the powder than have it yeah i just don't

31:43Jason Stewart:understand but people are that's why you're not very buff chris that's true i mean no pain no game brother choke it down choke it down dry what's it called dry scooping oh yeah dry scooping that's right but yeah i think the proteins affected the menus michael i think that's a big part of it at all those kind of places especially because like that's sort of like hard working lunch bro like midtown guy is the number one protein lover they i i think they don't do like a parachute drop of david bars like into midtown for all the bankers like i think that don't give them don't give don't they're listening don't give them any free ideas we've given them enough fucking free press over there david i need a restock by the way if you're listening because i do eat that shit i got you chris yeah you get a blueberry and fudge stack put them together oh Oh, twisted.

32:27Have you tried? Have you tried? Have you tried them, Michael? I tried one David Barr after reading like an FT story about them or something like that. Sounds about right. And I was I mean, I don't know if they're friends of the pod, but like I was OK on it. I felt like, well, did you look? I think if you're OK on it until you see the calorie to protein ratio and you're like, you know what? Maybe this blueberry pie tastes a little better.

32:54Jason Stewart:All things considered. no NPR it's a good value prop it's a protein prop it's a protein prop okay let's talk uh let's talk a little bit of uh you know a little bit of the book I know that you were doing a press run of podcasts and tv and all that stuff a month or two ago when the book actually came out sorry for the wait on and the delay but you were doing a lot of uh you know I guess in July a couple months ago you were talking everyone wanted your take on Anna Wintour leaving and now that enough time has passed to where her quote-unquote replacement has uh has been replaced or at least announced what's the take what's the thoughts are you jealous do you think it should be you instead of her uh so um well first of all it was like super it was super gracious of Anna to like abdicate her job two weeks before my book came out uh that was like a real uh and you coordinated that with her team i assume oh yeah no no we choreographed it all and and like anna it was super nice and we were kind of we were on the red phone late night late night kind of getting that thing that guy get that thing just like all right so like so so and somebody asked if i sent her flowers you know after that i did actually send her um a copy of the book and i i did it i i did it like by a uber courier or something because i thought that would be like kind of a condé touch you know It's all class, Michael.

34:17All class. Hand delivered, which I did not do. I should have done that for you, Chris, actually. But didn't you like, did you like, I feel like I sent you a note and you were like, oh, yeah, I already got the galley and read it like two weeks ago. You were like way out. Well, when I see something I like on Instagram, when I see something like that popping up, I go to the source. Because I'm not going to bother you with it. Because you're the right. There's a PR person whose only job is to send that book to people like me. So I go straight to them. I imagine you, Miranda Priestly style, having your assistant go out and get you the copy on the train or whatever it was.

34:54You know, Michael, I wish I was sending my hot assistant with my green American Express card to Mulberry Iconic to buy all of the new titles every month when they come out. But sadly, that's not. For the twins? Yeah, podcast isn't doing that well. We're doing fine.

35:07Jason Stewart:We're doing fine. We do have a driver, but he's not on 24-hour call. When he drops us off, he doesn't stay outside. He goes home. Events, events. And I mean, we own the car, but we let him drive it. But those David affiliate links are going to add up, guys. They're going to add up. They're clicking. But I think that the – because I actually – I was interviewed for a story at Airmail about the status galley and how that's like a thing now. Right. And I'm part of – I admit it in my quotes. I'm part of the problem. Like there's nothing I want more. Like if I had Lena Dunham's new book right now, I'd be shitting on you haters, you know, but I don't.

35:43Is the galley the new screener, Chris, since it's a physical object? I mean, to me, it's better because I don't care about movies. And I think that they...

35:51Jason Stewart:The screener feels a little more easily accessible to a wider crowd. No, but I think you're onto something about the physical object, right? Yeah, you know, Larry David's kid's not going to post a screenshot of the TV. You know, some people like to, you know, they're like logging in to stream it or whatever. But some people like to see the watermark, you know, Jason Stewart watermark bouncing around on The Conjuring 2. No, but a picture of Sally Rooney, you know, on the deck of my boat while I'm vacationing. Exactly. But this started, I mean, at least I remember it starting with Kendall Jenner, honestly.

36:28Kendall Jenner years and years ago. What was that girl, Jason? We were friends with her. She did the show. She was Brandon Wardell's friend. She wrote that funny book that had a purple cover.

36:36Jason Stewart:Oh, God. Yeah. You asked me this like a year ago and I had to Google it. I forgot what it was. She disappeared. But that book basically sold because it was like Kendall Jenner on a yacht and you could clearly see the cover of the book. You know, so I think it's no different now. If you get it before, it's even better than if you get it. I have to buy it yourself. I think status galley plus shawl collar sweater is like the new stealth. Well, you know, not so stealth, not so stealth. Well, but did you you guys sent a shitload of these out, though? I did. so well i wanted i it was it was funny i mean i wanted the book to go out there were a lot of people who i wanted to read it and then i also felt like fashion world people in particular um can't read or no no no no so i'm a media i'm a media reporter but like i haven't actually reported on the fashion world so the vogue of my book which of course was like an important part and kind of asked story like that was probably the part i felt kind of like most vulnerable on right so like i kind of like like i love lauren sherman and like you know line sheet and i wanted to make sure like that she could get an early look at it and like get her feedback and like so there was like a certain so i was trying to like you know like there were there were certain like subculture demos that i that i like wanted to make sure let's talk about let's talk about the fact-checking process.

37:58Just wonder just how long that took, how aggravating it was, how much good stuff you had to remove. That, that was, um, the, by far the most painful part of the process, but also in a funny way, like so exhilarating. So I, I, I hired an amazing, uh, former New Yorker fact-checker named Samin Gohar, who was incredible. And I look, I've been, I've been like, I've been at the times for 17 years like i kind of was like okay like you know i'll fuck up a few things but you know i would get back these chapters it was like you know it was like someone had been fucking slaughtered on the screen like every single sentence was marked up i also got my my book was a pack of lies like i had gotten just so much stuff just i misremembered everyone lied to me everything i said was a lie i can't it looked like the epstein reports it was all redacted after redacted page that yeah no exactly but in a funny way it is like and so i'd never been through like a formal fact check before because at the times we just like do our own quick fact check like we don't have like an outside person and um but in a funny way it was like kind of exhilarating because it's like somewhat engaging with your writing on such a close granular granular level and honestly it was a better book i mean not just not just yes now the book is true which is a good thing but i felt like she really like would challenge you know like well this sentence doesn't quite match up with this sentence from like four chapters earlier and like it was yeah yeah so that was like and that was like a six to eight week process that i went through and it was like right before the manuscript was due so it was like a crazy kind of rush to the finish

39:35Jason Stewart:but i had a good time with it so you got a pre-edit before the editor edited it yeah it was all kind of happening simultaneously which is like a funny funny thing too like publishing is a weird i mean the whole book publishing process is like totally uh was totally new to me and um uh it's like a lot of like kind of waiting around and then all of a sudden it's like a crazy rush to get the thing done and you know suddenly you have like two weeks before we lock the whole thing and like i mean that that is i feel like this is a there's some legalities that have to be avoided you know there's some stuff there are people that are litigious in this book for sure this episode is supported by fx's the shards a seductive drama from executive producer Ryan Murphy.

40:19Set in 1980s Los Angeles, the series follows a group of glamorous, deeply entangled high school seniors drawn into a life of wealth, beauty, parties, and excess. At its center is Brett, whose reality begins to unravel when the arrival of a new student coincides with a series of mysterious murders. FX's The Shards premieres August 5th on FX and Hulu. Hear that? That's now Crispy and McCrispy Strips. meeting creamy Caesar sauce. Sounds extra crispy. Caesar sauce at McDonald's for a limited time.

40:58Yes, I did have to track down. There is a story about, now of course telling the story, I got to be careful, but Julian, the former maitre d' of the Four Seasons restaurant, who was kind of this notorious figure, He ended up getting, I think, found guilty of some sort of sexual assault or something where he was groping patrons. He was a sketchy guy. Look, you've got to get a table somehow. I mean, if he wants to give me a little tug and I get the corner, I'm fine with it. But I understand others aren't. I understand others aren't. Four Seasons in its prime, hard as table in New York, especially for lunch.

41:33So this was a whole chapter about Art Cooper, the legendary GQ editor who had a permanent table at the Four Seasons and had died at the Four Seasons famously. like right after he left Conde Nast. It's too cool. It's too cool to die there. It's too cool.

41:47Jason Stewart:I didn't know that this person died at the Four Seasons. Was it just like a heart attack or was it a choking to death on a... He had been doing some faddish exercise process and he was there with Dave Jachenko who was like the men's journal editor and they were having lunch and it was like three months after he had left Conde and I think he had a stroke. I mean, the funny thing is like I would talk to his close friends who were like, yes, of course it was tragic but there is no other way this guy would want to go than collapsing at his favorite restaurant in the world. Oh, my God. That's how I say I want to die in a helicopter.

42:22I want to be going from JFK to the East River.

42:25Jason Stewart:You want to die in the Porsche Cayenne Delta 360 on the tarmac. You want to get fucking run over by an Emirates jet. Yeah, yeah. I want to get hit by another plane. Dying at the Four Seasons, but you're saying Julian. That's diamond status death. Yeah, that's diamond platinum. Yeah. But you're saying that Julian had gotten in some trouble and maybe you had whipped that up a little bit. So, well, OK, so there was a former. No, no, no. So there was a former GQ editor who told me a story that he had like robed her in a car. It was like, you know, what are these fucked up things? But so so the lawyers are like, you got to get a response from this guy.

42:59So Julian's been off the map for like years and years. And I had a friend who used to have like a bunch of Four Seasons connections back in the day. He helped me track down Julian. I sent him a note. My phone rings at like one in the morning in New York. Julian is in South Korea on like some kind of weird like tour or like, like culinary tour around there or something like that. Yeah. That's what, that's what I tell my, that's what I tell my, the people looking for me when I'm doing some sex tourism as well. So I totally get that. So no comment, but, but he calls me and he's like, Hey, and he's like, you know, he's very, you know, he's like a maitre d's that he's like, Oh, Hey, I hear you're looking for me.

43:37And so I kind of relay to him like this somewhat, you know, pretty harrowing story about him, like, you know, being very handsy in the whole thing. He's like, whoa, it sounds like your book's got lots of gossip in it. Can't wait to read it. See, a copy. You got to send me a copy when it's done. That's why the greats stay great.

43:56Jason Stewart:You know, it's he's unfazed and very, very Lydia tar of him to, you know, fade away into Asian obscurity and then just say, yeah, sounds like a great book. yes i grabbed that congratulations on all your hard work that's actually really funny that that's the response it was that chick yes so i i do have yes so i do have the the very unflattering story about julian who who like clearly was not denying by the way any of the bad behavior like you know i think maybe he was trying to get maybe he's trying to embrace our post-cancellation moment or something um but you know oh well let's get into that is that is that where you think we are I mean Spacey was at Cannes this year Spacey, look, Spacey, I say it all the time Exonerated on all charges Exonerated on all charges I'd say we're post entirely And I think that like a lot of people went down who deserve to go down But this is more like a general comment that I feel like I see a lot of people Kind of coming back who are I just feel like there's a lot of people I went to a book party for Bruce Weber's new book.

45:02And I'm upset that I had to miss that because I was at Pamela Hanson's, which was the same night. Oh, that's right. It was like battle of the battle of the nineties. Like, uh, yeah, but, but Bruce, and I've said this before and, and I'll say it again, gay stuff just doesn't count in the same way in the public eye. It doesn't, whether that's fair or not, it's just true. Like people are kind of like Bruce Weber made hot firefighters from Iowa feel uncomfortable and it's like okay like that's not that's not a sentence to death I guess is what I'm saying. So I'm going to invoke my journalistic neutrality card here.

45:42Of course. But what I will say, observationally, is that I went to the Bruce party, which, by the way, I just want to shout. Well, just no, hold on. To be clear, you're complicit by going to the party. But we can get into that offline if you want. Okay. But as a reporter, it's my responsibility to have a front row seat to what's going on in the culture. Touche. Touche. You're just at work. You're just admiring that beautiful new volume from Toshen. It's your job.

46:10Jason Stewart:And it's Joe Budden's job to go watch Chris Brown live in concert as well for journalistic reasons. I get it. I would say that there was like Calvin Klein showed up at the end. The OG. I saw the pictures. I saw the pictures. Yeah. I had like a nice hug moment with Bruce. I felt like there were a lot of, you know, I mean, there were a lot of mainstream, you know, fashion editors who were there. And I don't know. I mean, you know, I just think, look, I think, look, other people who still think what, you know, Bruce is accused of was problematic. Definitely. But I'm just saying, like, I think there was a time a few years ago where, like, nobody's even hosting a book.

46:48So that's kind of what I mean about, like, the tolerance, you know, about a price on seeing those two queens hug after making all those great images. They gave us, Bruce and Calvin together gave us a lot That is literally like a blueprint for how to make clothes look glamorous and cool And I think that that is powerful And it's tough, it's also new generations care way less than we do So if they see these images on Tumblr or, you know, Pinterest or whatever They don't give a, they don't know who took, they don't care They find out and then it's like, it's all about the pictures And like the glamour of it all Like, I don't think it's about the stuff that happened kind of.

47:28Or also just enough time has passed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Enough time has passed. I also think that there is like a return to glamour right now. Like, I think people are kind of thirsty for that. Yeah. Valentino tried to bring back Studio 54 last night. So that's it's it's it's a sign for sure. I just think like, I mean, the world is so fucked up in other ways. It's like, well, why? Like, maybe we need a little more beauty and a little more like aesthetic, like joy, like in our lives. And like, I think like even like. That's why we podcast, Michael. I mean, we should talk about because it's so funny.

47:57Audio only. It's so funny. So my book has been often put in this series of like Graydon's memoir, the Keith McNally memoir, the Barney's book that just came out like last week. And it's funny, right? Because I hinted in my book like a year late. So like it easily could have come out like the year. Well, not so easily because I had to write it. But like, you know, it's funny how these cultural moments happen. and I do think I mean I don't think it's coincidence that there's like this kind to me it's also about a yearning for the monoculture like that's a topic that I definitely that's no that's very real I mean I watched the VMAs the other night and it was like all I could think about was like no one no every person performing has fans that know them and don't know anyone else that's playing if that makes sense like it was just it there's no there's no sort of young blood I'm here to see my guy and then that's it yeah i just i i think you're right and i think some of this stuff is glamorous and it's also like yeah you're right it was a time when everybody knew what this stuff was yeah well at least like everyone you could be part of the same cultural conversation one thing i've heard twice in the last two days like from very disparate voices is i i wish there was a big sunday hbo show on right now that we could all be like talking about like i and i feel like the last one that did that was white lotus because they parceled out week by week but to me like with shows that first of all there's not a lot of there's not a lot of shows on right now that i think people are super into but like when that when you got the binge series where like everybody's watching on different schedules it takes away that kind of common conversation that we used to have yeah where we were all invested in a certain story yeah that's why uh you know sports is the

49:42Jason Stewart:only successful media format on streaming television because it you have to watch a lot Yeah, I mean, I guess Succession, Industry, White Lotus, those are the only ones I can think of that people cared about like that, where it was like, you waited every week. Yep. But I also, it seems, there must be data, I mean, it just seems like the obvious thing to do if the show is good, to create that kind of momentum and do it that way and make people wait. But they do it so sparingly, it makes me believe there must be data proving it doesn't work. I mean, part of it might be the numbers thing, because think about, okay, shows like Succession or like Mad Men, right?

50:17which like i think in like our world you know like everyone's watching talking about like the audience is actually pretty narrow right like you know like i mean the funny thing is i used to look at like ratings reports and like big bang theory reruns would be like the most watched shows in the country you know um but that said like i i feel like there's a certain i don't know there's just something nice about having like that common conversation and like um you know i don't know i'm trying to look at the fall schedule and see what's coming up. I don't know. There's like that Mark Ruffalo show.

50:49I haven't watched that yet.

50:50Jason Stewart:Well, actually on the topic of film and television, I know that you're a bit of a devil wears Prada connoisseur and fan. Oh, yes. What do you think about the reboot? Are you feeling good or are you feeling a little weary about what it's going to be? I'm feeling negative. Let me say this. Me too. That's kind of my resting heart rate. Go ahead. Okay, so I think the original Devil Wears Prada is one of the best movies ever made about work. Period. And careerism. I think that's a fair, that's fair to say. And my take, which maybe is not such a hot take anymore, but is that her friends are the villains of that movie.

51:33Where they're like, oh, don't do your high-powered job. Come to my art opening or whatever. That's actually true. Be the closest to you sometimes trying to pull you down to their level. when you're shining.

51:45Jason Stewart:But you also have to remember to have fun in this business, you guys. That's why we got into it. Yeah, she goes to Paris for Fashion Week. Isn't that fun? I'm just saying, like, she's at, like, the top of... She's at, like, the most cutthroat, like, industry in this, like, super intense competitive job. And her friends are like, oh, like, you know, like, why are you working so late? And, like, what is Adrian Grenier's, like, he wants her to eat his grilled cheese or something like that. He got the Jarlsberg. He spent a lot of money on that. I thought you were ahead. Come on, Michael. Jarlsberg.

52:21Jarlsberg. I don't think any reboot is good. I think it's basically impossible to sort of... I mean, I can't think of one. Godfather 2, Chris. Come on, Godfather 2. You know I've never seen that. Predator 2. I'm saying that when something is this big and this popular and this sort of classic and still referenced in pop culture all the time, you can do your best, but it's going to be really tough not to sully the good name.

52:48Jason Stewart:It also doesn't matter. Just like that awful show. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Watched every episode. They know you motherfuckers are going to watch Devil Wears Prada 2 regardless of if it's a 10 % or a 99 % on Rotten Tomatoes. That's true. That's true. about the sequel and actually this makes me think about something with my book it's that i i don't want to see miranda priestly struggling in the digital media world like sure like yes that is what would happen and that's what happened to anna but like so my book like i i could have done my book where it was like half the rise of khani nas and half the fall of khani nas and i ended up doing only like a chapter or two at the end about kind of like the full decline and like yes it's like an interesting story about how they missed the internet and i i tried to get a lot of details in there but like honestly i didn't want to live like like part of the joy of the book was like marinating in the moment of like power and glory and as as like problematic as that moment could be at times but um devil wears prada the what's great about that film is like seeing them like you know with the town cars and like you know like you know jetting off to paris and like how glamorous that world is and like Miranda Priestly like starting her sub stack like just doesn't strike me as compelling cinematic material doesn't strike me as anything I couldn't agree more they created a universe in a world that you really felt comfort and enjoyment living in why show anything but that has New York City like rarely has looked as good on film as it does in Devil's Prada like that opening sequence where she's getting dressed we need more escapism y 'all let's not forget the movie where Justin Timberlake played the GQ editor that that was that's also glamorizes the business quite well I think I don't want to get into the specifics but you know he's like jet skis to work across the Hudson River is that right that's right that's right that's how you get to work right at GQ that's so hot that's how yeah when I when I go to Condé Nast once every six months I only take the jet ski it's a sea do but I've done some aftermarket work to it so it gets me there pretty fast um okay Michael you you mentioned the the fictional Miranda priestly sub stack you know go in tina brown mode what do you think about sub stacks paywalls patreons free stuff you know what where are you looking at that whole world right now i actually love tina's sub stack in part because she's just i mean she's such a good writer and what i like about sub stack is that it makes me have hope for the written word because in my mind the sub stacks that have actually succeeded and have actually created revenue streams tend to be the ones that are really well-written.

55:30They have a distinctive voice. Are you low-key shouting out Barry Weiss right now? Sorry. Distinctive voice. Racist. Couldn't help myself. I'm currently reporting for the Times about how Barry Weiss is on the cusp of taking over CBS News. CBS boss? News boss? I mean, I think you're right about Substack in that way. I think Tina Brown's, which is one I pay for, is good because she comes from an era that was good. I think she probably is treating it with the same rigor and attention that she would have Vanity Fair or whatever. And that's the difference. Whereas a 25-year-old doesn't have those capabilities, but they might have a lot of eyeballs that care what they have to say.

56:14That just doesn't mean I'm going to be interested in it myself. I'm trying to think here because the ones I pay for, I mean, maybe this is my own bias, right? So like I pay for Emily Sundberg. Like I think she has like a unique voice. She's got like a sensibility that feels coherent in the way that like a magazine does. I learned something from him. That's the thing. I actually, whether it's something I need to know or not, I never open that and don't come away with something. Caitlin Phillips has her gift guide substack, which I like is filled with the most amazing recommendations and like obscure kind of like literary decorating tips.

56:50And I find that like something I can't find anywhere else. But are there, okay, are there some stacks that are succeeding that are like poorly written and kind of like just like don't have a good voice to them? Oh, yeah. Oh, there's plenty of those. I mean, I don't know if poorly, I'm not going to say poorly written as like a fake writer myself, but I'm going to say that it's like, I think that there is it because the barrier of entry is so low, there's a tendency for it to be for some people like a diary spewing. And I think for that to be compelling You have to be very good And I think that a lot of But you don't have to be very good To find your peers that are willing to pay$5 a month To read you talk about Like you know Your boring daily life in Brooklyn Yes I agree with that I agree with that Like I just I feel like the diaries are going to fade though Like it can't just be thought catalog You know like nobody's going to pay for thought catalog my king I love thought catalog what a moment in time what a moment in time

57:50Jason Stewart:what do you think about not paying for stuff I've had a theory and I've said it a couple times over the years that the advertising model is not really failed and it would be saved if advertising just became great again I think ads of yore were very interesting and luxurious and fun in certain magazines you would be into the ads just as much as the editorials and the stories, the same way people watch commercials, or watch the Super Bowl for the commercials. Here's what I would love for Substack. Not to be too radical here, but what if a bunch of writers who I like, who have interesting things to say, were all packaged into one product?

58:34Hold on, Michael. Are you saying a magazine? Is that what you mean? Maybe

58:42Jason Stewart:be like what you know some beautiful advertising but why split my five bucks a month with 13 other people in ridgewood when i can keep it all to myself you know what i mean i think that the reach like i think emily's emily's definitely hired people like laura riley's hired people i think if if you can get someone great to do something you can't do in your same realm and expand the reach i think that makes a lot of sense but that really becomes also i think the whole joy of making money on Substack is you can sort of sit in your fucking room or sit in your hotel room and bang it out and get your money every month no matter what once you start having contributors they're late you got somebody's got to edit it somebody's got to become a manager now it's a different yeah it's a different thing because I think Substack is sold as this sort of like oh you can just do it anybody can do it you know and I think once you make it harder it could be better but it's harder yeah no it's a good point so I don't I this was reported somewhere that Mark Guaducci, who's the new Vanity Fair editor, approached Emily about half, I don't know this myself, but I read it, I think it was in Semaphore, about writing for VF.

59:50And it's like the financial model for Emily makes no sense, right? I mean, she's probably clearing like half a million a year right now on her sub stack. Well, Emily does stuff like that for the same reason I do stuff like that. It's because you like it and it's a different thing because you don't need to make money from it. Like she writes three, whatever, she'll do like those big GQ, those in story for example or whatever it's fine to do that when you don't need to pay your rent right that money because you can take your time and just do it for the love of the game and it makes you better and people see it different people see it but when you're trying to put together like a living doing shit like that it's it's not fun it's hard very it's really hard i don't get paid

1:00:28Jason Stewart:to dj at burning man i do it because it's fucking for love of the game it's a dream it's a gift really it's a gift but i know what you mean that's why i that's why i dj did burning man too you You kept it low. So you get it. You didn't post on social, which is big of you. I think that was smart. No, it wasn't for the clout. It was just for personal. We don't want your employer to see that. We had Graydon Carter on the pod a couple years ago. He insulted our tattoos and attitudes and things like that. Had a great time. Loved him. I know you talked a lot about him in the book. Obviously, he's on the cover.

1:01:03Jason Stewart:do you think that the Graydon and Donald Trump have a little will they won't they energy obviously not a literal sexual relationship but kind of like uh you know do you think they secretly talk to each other a little bit on the low kind of thing in a competitive way so I actually address this in the book so no I do not think they talk to each other I don't think there's any coordination But I do think there is, forgive me, Graydon. I think there's a bit of like kind of game recognized game between the two of them. Totally. Yeah, I think that's fair. A Jordan Bird scenario? Well. I would love if they had an Instagram chat where they kind of just, you know, send memes to each other.

1:01:45But that's probably a bridge.

1:01:46Jason Stewart:Oh, you're not on Graydon's close friends? He shares it sometimes. I can't screenshot it anymore, though. I don't think people are quite aware of like how about how entangled their two careers are. Like Brayden wrote the GQ cover story of Donald Trump in 1984, which was like his first major national magazine exposure that led to Cy Newhouse commissioning The Art of the Deal as a book, which is like the first time he became like that was like a national bestseller. and then the other thing i discovered when i was like recording this out because like i was like aware of the great trump feud and like you know going back to the spy days and like short-fingered vulgarian and like that's all real but when grayden took over vanity fair in 1992 he actually kind of hissed and made up with trump like they kind of like had a peace and like trump came to like one of the white house correspondence parties they did early on and like grayden went to his wedding to marla i think i mean look if trump's if trump's inviting me anywhere i'm gonna go it's just how can you turn that down it's sport at that point oh totally and like i don't again i don't actually i don't blame grayden for any of this like trump was like this pop cultural figure for you know like decades in a way and of course like who would ever know and like where where where his life would have gone but like the two of them in a funny they're both in a way like these kind of like strivers who like created like manhattan lights for themselves and like i don't know it's just it's a totally fascinating kind of like uh pod to do between the two of them you know i would say that i would say the biggest thing that sticks out to me is they both have just iconic heads of hair totally and they're they're different interesting they're different but they're both like i could recognize them as a silhouette and that's powerful from a branding perspective just just on hair alone they're they're healthy competition at your party michael at your party Michael I was wearing this spy shirt that I've had for a while and I was like this is the perfect time to wear it the only place people understand this and Graydon sort of acknowledged it but then also you know he famously hates tattoos so he was like nice to see your tattoos again because everybody else is kind of wearing like a suit which I normally would do but I was like this is mine I can wear this shirt one time where people understand it you could have been wearing a tom ford suit if you're a little a little tattoo is peeking out under the sleeve he would still talk to you like a dock worker his his disdain for tattoos is something that i love i think it's so awesome i think it's so cool down on it's yeah it's just such a cool thing to be like nah fuck that like the thing i'm most proud of is that none of my children have tattoos is it's just too cool it's too cool you know about all his rules for the office at vf like i reported this out so like rubber sold shoes were not allowed sick because he could not could not deal with the squeaks like that was totally verboten uh duncan don't i heard i don't think this actually happened oh yeah yeah somebody told me he fired an assistant because the assistant was drinking duncan donuts coffee at the desk i'd fire an assistant for that in manhattan if you're drinking duncan if i have to look at that logo in my office you're out you're gone there's a million people that'll take this job get out of here sends a message can i say by the way speaking of post cancellation scott rudin who look as far as i know from the reporting i've read was like horrendous and a bully to people but i remember reading a story and there was one example where scott rudin's assistant on the first day he gets there and scott calls his office and the guy picks up the phone and he says scott rubin's office and he fired him as you should and i was like do that to the rude dog i was like that's fireable you can't do that to he's too but he'll throw a phone at you he's on his naomi campbell like you're working for the guy you can't say scott rubin he could have been nervous.

1:05:28He could have been nervous and just slip up, but we don't have room for that. In the powerful world of Hollywood and New York Elite, you can get fired for having a Duncan refresher on your desk. In or out? Yeah, literally. I think all of that's fine. What do you think? Who's buying airmail? What do you think, Michael? Who's buying it? How about you guys? I'm not super liquid right now.

1:05:50Jason Stewart:We're the buyers, or what is our opinion? Who do we think? HLG by... No, no, I was going to say you guys could buy it. Who's going to buy airmail? I think I love reading airmail. I think there's such great unexpected stories. There's no better place to get a salacious story about a private school that I can't pronounce. It's true fantasy land. Vanity Fair, I feel like because the stories were so long, it would sort of have to be tagged to British aristocrats that you sort of are familiar with their names. airmail because it's a little bit quicker it can just be like yeah this private school in the northeast like some shit went down and you need to read a quick thousand words about it and i always do and here's the top 10 coasters that you need for your study but i think that i like reading it too but i think that like when people say stuff like that's for sale i'm like well who's gonna buy like how many buyers are there anymore like how many things can penske buy and then lay off the staff you know i don't have a great answer for this which is i guess not a not a great sign but like i you know look i mean i think it's a lot of talent there i love that i love the fact that they're even still doing long form journalism is and like and and also kind of in a beautiful way like i love the photography and like it looks good they spend i mean i i think that like i i think that's the thing about substack too that bothers me is that it feels like no one puts in much effort to how it looks like i would rather i was joking with jason about this i would rather get like the way Rachel sends out her newsletter and it's a BCC on Gmail like I like the way that looks better than the way Substack looks and airmail whether you like what they're talking about or not it's presented very well and I think that that always is going to appeal to a certain person you know I just like there's got to be some literate billionaire out there who just wants to like have great and throw parties for him like maybe that's the way it you know Donald Trump he's the only one that's right in a spite purchase 50 cent style i love it look i'll give you full price but i'm the boss now we have some changes editorial changes okay well you you chris you brought up uh the the party for his book that was uh where you got to wear your cool spice shirt and i wanted to talk to you michael sort of about the importance of events back in the day versus now um obviously nowadays that's a huge part of the business model of these magazines or you know the money you make from corporate sponsors for events and things like that is a big portion of it now that people don't buy magazines anymore so one one part you know events through the years and then also you know just some tips on aside from being famous you know what are some ways that you would recommend for people to get into these elite events because a lot of people are left off the guest list who are are quite famous so tina brown was way ahead of the game actually when she was at the new yorker in the 90s she was putting together these like conferences where new yorker writers would come you know interview notable people in their field and like she had a really hard time getting condé to agree to that like to give her money for that like i think they just found that extraneous um which is sort of ironic because in a way like if you think about the vf oscar party or the vet gala like those are just marketing events for these magazines that like kind of became these cultural phenomena and um and this goes all the way back to so kande kande montrose bass the guy who started this company in 1909 he had a penthouse on park avenue in the 30 in the 20s where he would host these like they were like the vf oscar parties of the day like it would be politicians and movie stars and moguls and business people it's in the parties are in the bones basically of the company i mean because if you think like what is a magazine in its best form should be like a printed form of a party right where you're bringing together like a really interesting cast of people where you're sort of like finding fascinating characters from different walks of life and it's all there for you and so the parties to me are like these irl manifestations of like what a magazine does at fest so like tina tried doing that actually i mean remnick i gotta give him credit like the new yorker festival like was kind of one of the early cases that seems like a real moneymaker that that seems like an actual moneymaker vulture fest i think actually makes money like i think there are a few of them that do thanks to our friends at chase or you know whoever is underwriting it but regardless they seem well attended and uh profitable yeah and like so i think that um And also, I think I feel like post pandemic, there's been like a real resurgence in like wanting the the real like meetups like I mean, it's probably too too sweepy in analysis.

1:10:50But but so like when I I mean, but my idea so I had my go party at the old Frank Derry Conde cafeteria. And like, I knew I wanted to have a fun book party. But also that just like that was like my white whale. Like early on, I was like, how am I? I was like, I really want to do this. Like I'm in New York City. There's like a lot of places that figure in Condé lore. I called up the Royalton hotel where 44 was Brian McNally's restaurant. That was a big Condé hangout in the nineties. And it's like under construction or something. And I have to give shout out to the Durst corporation, uh, uh, which owns, owns four times square.

1:11:27And they were like, it was so funny. I called them up. I'm like, Oh, do you rent out spaces? And they brought me in and they're showing me all these conference rooms. And I'm like, what about like the cafeteria? and they were like, oh, nobody ever asks about that. Like, yeah, sure. Like, sure. Yeah, you want to rent it out? Like, sure. And the amazing thing is the tenant that now uses the old Condé Nast cafeteria is TikTok. That's a little too full circle in mind.

1:11:53Jason Stewart:They got that after your party or they already had it while you were doing it? No, no. That is like TikTok is the anchor tenant at the old four times square. Got it, got it. And in fact, there were like TikTok employees who I got LinkedIn messages after. They were like, oh, I saw this party happening and had no idea about what this... They have no idea about the history of this cafe. That's where I had my overnight oats every day and Chris Black was there. Yeah. If you're in a Frank Gehry-designed cafeteria and you kind of notice that... I mean, not that I've been in so many cafeterias, but I can say that that cafeteria looks a little different.

1:12:31It's just amazing if you think about... I mean, this is such a time capsule, but like the way like Gawker in like the early aughts would like every day you'd get a report of like who was there and who was sitting next. The greatest publication we've ever seen. I mean, you know, I miss it every day. Gawker Stalker changed my life and it paved the way for Dumois, which has ruined our world. So it's a gift and a curse, I would say. like do moi now it's like a restaurant is ruined immediately because there's instant reporting that celebrities are there and then tourists go there and blah blah gawker stalker was a little more just like tiktok what was her name oh my god what was her name allison julia julia allison julia allison there was like jason there was this sort of like hot like tech adjacent chick who was just relentlessly covered on gawker like new york famous but i still don't know what she does i don't know where she is but for like three years of my life i knew everything she did and that is necessary sounds a little olivia mom-esque no she was way less like there was no fame really it was just like new york like hot single job in terms of hot reporter chicks she is now married to a very prominent harvard law professor i knew she would look i knew she wasn't going to marry no brokies but i'm saying that's i'm glad to see that julia landed on our feet because i remember once during that period being like kind of drunk and on coke at a bodega and she was in the bodega and i was kind of like i i like visibly looked funny because i was like damn that's gawker's own julia allison out getting a fucking fiji water right now um but that that sort of new york micro stuff just there's nowhere for that to exist it's all bigger than that you're actually making me realize like when i was talking about the subsects that i like they're all like new york is a small town sub stacks right yeah that's true like like sunberg is like it's like oh there's a new restaurant opening at this hotel it's like it's actually this sort of hyper local stuff that you used to find on like um uh like back in the mist yeah or like i love evie grieve like i don't know evie grieve evie shout out to the evie grieve i sent a link last night chris french cleaners is closing unbelievable 65 years best dry cleaner in new york is for me i didn't know about this Evie Greve is cool because it's on Blogspot.

1:14:51Like, still. Like, they've made no design. But, Jason, the one, like, the Angel that covers, like, L.A. food stuff and Found, like, those are, like, local to - Eastside Rag. I mean, Found is New York, too. Eastside Rag. Like, that L.A. stuff is, if you get it, it's the same level of, like, sort of L.A. as a small town.

1:15:10Jason Stewart:Yeah, that kind of stuff, it's good to see a return to that because back then, if you knew it was going to be about a thing, you would read it front to back regardless of if it's good or not just because you're like, oh, I just learned something. That's all it is. It could be useless information, but I always read it. Not to spoil the purity of Evie Greave, but it's just occurring to me. That's like an affiliate goldmine waiting to happen. I love that website. It's sort of like the way that I would read New York Magazine when I didn't live in New York. I feel like if you come to New York enough and you read Evie Greve, you kind of know what's going on in a very certain world.

1:15:51Totally. And it's sort of like plain. He takes shitty pictures on his digital camera. It's all just very normal. We could do this forever. Michael, thank you for joining us on How I'm Gone Today. The book is in stores everywhere. It's been in stores for a while. I'm sure anybody can buy it. If you don't have it. Full side read. We still got two more months. Have we mentioned the title? Have we mentioned the title? I got to get a plug in here. Yeah, Empire of the Elites. We mentioned it on the intro. We mentioned it on the intro. I'm not going to make them Google your last name because they'll spell it wrong.

1:16:19So we got to give them the title. We got to give them the title. Empire of the Elites. Thank you for joining us. It was a pleasure. Overdue. The book is great. And hopefully I'll see you soon. Thanks, guys, so much. Thank you. Later, Michael. Have a good one. Chills run up and down my spine. Aladdin's lamp is mine. The dream I dreamed was not denied me

1:16:44Jason Stewart:Just one look and then I knew That all I longed for long ago was you Beside me waiting, wanting only to be loved It seems now our love started long ago