850 - Lucy Dacus

10:43Jason Stewart:There's a bridge. You stand on that bridge. I can put some pressure on this one. I can put a little weight on this. But yeah, that day was like the metal day. So there's like gnarly metal bands playing. We all know I missed Blood Incantation, unfortunately. But it was just dudes in. It was a contest to see who had the gnarliest shirt. Yeah. which I guess is not in line with what we normally talk about.

11:09Chris Black:Actually, I will say that that festival, Levitation in general, that's the most banned t-shirts per capita I've ever seen in one place.

11:18Jason Stewart:And I'm really sad that my anal cunt hat did not come in from dog London because that would have been a real head turner. But it's probably waiting for me at home.

11:27Chris Black:I was saying I outgrew my ass suck sleeveless so I couldn't really... I saw the assook. I just, but yeah, it was that part of it. Yesterday was less that, you know, it was a little bit less.

11:37Jason Stewart:Yeah, it was a little less dying fetus and it was a little more dying bassist. Yes.

11:42Chris Black:In the, in the, so in the, the like upstairs, like the green room, you know, it's a shared.

11:48Jason Stewart:Dying fetus is a band just to be clear. I wasn't saying that is good. I think most of our listeners know that. We don't know that.

11:53Chris Black:I'm joking. Uh, the, the upstairs like green room area, uh, everybody kind of had to mingle and you know there's all these guys that looking like they're from fucking space and i was like oh it's brian jonestown massacre they've got like six guitar players and one of them is wearing like bug eye sunglasses and bell bottoms and a rayon shirt and then i realized that anton the the goat is sitting next to like i'm sitting next to him and i'm probably sitting next to him for 20 minutes because you're not there yet i just seen wednesday and i just was zoning out i was just like all right i got a couple hours to kill i'm gonna drink my liquid death and peace up here you know what i I mean, listen to the guy from the Black Angels play 45s.

12:32Chris Black:He slid. And Anton's so good. And Anton is sitting next to me, and I'm like, all right, I got to strike up a conversation with this guy because he's, you know. And I just, it just was, it did not. I felt no opportunity. I've never felt so stifled in a situation like that. And then I noticed that he wasn't drinking. He was smoking Camel Reds but tearing off. because I saw this little pile of filters on the table we were sharing. I was like, oh, he's tearing off the filter and just blasting. Ripping off the filter on

13:05Jason Stewart:a camel, which is already a heavy cigarette to begin with, and he's ripping the governor off of that thing. And when you do that, he'll be able to smoke that whole entire gnarly cigarette in like three drags. He smoked three of those in the time I was sitting there. And this was 90 degrees middle of the afternoon you know like three o 'clock but he was hanging out hi son his crew was one of the

13:31Chris Black:wild there's like a guy with a fucking wearing like white leather heeled beetle boots with a cane that had a feather on it and like a top hat yeah i just guys are living the life they're they're

13:43Jason Stewart:like we're gonna die at 53 and that's just it is what it is i'm i'm like pretty i'm all for it's admirable that they're they're some of the last real living true rock stars you know no totally

13:55Chris Black:It was cool to see. But yeah, I just did not. I had nothing. I had no.

14:00Jason Stewart:And I love that you, a person who is a professional interviewer known for the gift of Gab, saw no opening. And then when I finally saddled up next to you, there's this little Asian blogger guy who.

14:13Chris Black:Oh, he worked for the festival.

14:14Jason Stewart:I saw all this go down. Oh, okay. He had a camera on a tripod and he had the little YouTuber microphone on Anton's.

14:22Chris Black:He had the Isaac Likes joint clipped up.

14:24Jason Stewart:I was like, Chris can't even get a, hey man, you guys rule.

14:27Chris Black:But this guy's like, so tell me about your hat. No, I saw him be like, hey, I work at the festival. Can I ask you a few questions? And he was just like, he like grumbled at him. It was really funny. It's really funny to watch an interview like that happen and him not. It looks like he's barely moving his mouth. He also wasn't. There was no smiling, no gesticulating. There was no talk. It was just like, ask me the questions and get the fuck out of here so I can smoke another camel. I hope he's having a fun life and enjoying his time I don't think he is

14:57Jason Stewart:but I think that's part of being a tortured artist of that caliber When does somebody like that have a good time?

15:03Chris Black:It's not on stage It's on heroin but if you stop that Got it

15:09Jason Stewart:That's kind of it

15:10Chris Black:I don't think he's into kiteboarding I think it's kind of like I rock Maybe he gets pleasure from his cats Something like that He might have a crazy vinyl collection He might shoot guns

15:22Jason Stewart:me detroit style pizza i'm trying to get my fermentation down i just really love pickles

15:29Chris Black:i yeah i don't know i've got a pretty big house so it's easy to kind of jar everything you know but we also so we were with carly from wednesday and she's a she's just really one in a million and she showed us her she has a dumb phone that i had never seen before because i was texting her And I was like, why is that shit coming up green? And she's like, because I have this. And it looked like a Tamagotchi. She told me, she said it was like a jellyfish or something like that. It had a name similar to that. It's a$200 Amazon, but it's like full color. And you can use like maps and everything. But Instagram, she's like Instagram, look how it, she showed us how Instagram looks.

16:09Chris Black:And she's like, it's so small that it's not worth it. So you don't want to use it because you can't really see it.

16:14Jason Stewart:The level of serotonin is not there. It's like I'm addicted to eating Doritos and then they give you a box of them with no salt on them. And you're like, oh, well. I don't really want these. The crush is there.

16:26Chris Black:But it was a very interesting device.

16:29Jason Stewart:And she also had the video camera, like the YouTuber video camera thing.

16:33Chris Black:Yeah, she was like, I've been taking videos every day for 10 years. So when I got rid of an iPhone, I got this. It's the little gimbal. It's a GoPro, basically. You know what I mean? It's a gimblet. But I was just very, I was like, wow, this is a twisted combo. But it's interesting that young people, especially successful ones, are finding these workarounds to sort of keep themselves away from what we assume them to be the only thing they love.

17:00Jason Stewart:Yeah. You know what I mean? There's enough people rebelling. Yeah. You know, she said she collects physical media and cassettes and CDs and DVDs and VHSs.

17:11Chris Black:I'm going to go to her house. I need the tour of this house. the amount of shit inside of it i just can't even imagine what you could find i mean i think it's

17:19Jason Stewart:great i think it's admirable i'm sure she enjoys listening to that music on cassette more so and unknown mortal orchestra same thing he did a dj set last night with on cassette decks

17:31Chris Black:and i was saying this to you i feel like i'm a person who's from being friends and working with you for so long i feel like i know more about djing than i should then you'd like to know that Not even that I like, but just because it's not my thing. But I know a lot about it. I feel like that. Through osmosis, you've absorbed enough. Exactly. Exactly. I did not know that that was a possibility. I mean, I never considered that to be a possibility. So when he was talking about it, I was truly learning. I was like, you do what, bro?

18:01Jason Stewart:There's guys way back in the day who would DJ and mix on cassettes and real to real. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the big tapes that you would see. But there's old Chicago house DJs who would learn how to master playing rock.

18:16Chris Black:I guess that makes sense to me because tape was the predominant format. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, sure. It's like vinyl is predominant format. Tape was predominant format.

18:25Jason Stewart:And you could get the tape and record someone's record. And then once you have it on cassette, then you could spread it and duplicate it and make as many copies as you want, like a burned CD. And they used to make cassette decks that would have tempo adjusting. Oh, so it was the same. So you could, I mean, very difficult to beat match on cassettes, of course, but it is possible if you're really good.

18:47Chris Black:We got to talk to Mark Ronson about this next week. Yeah, we're going to talk to Mark Ronson about that. You said vinyls, Matt. Let's see what you got with the cassettes. He probably has one or two stories. Oh, for sure, for sure. I just didn't know. He's not that old, but who knows? I didn't know. I didn't know.

19:02Jason Stewart:Yeah, congrats to Dave from Provio for getting married. Congrats to Benny Blanco for getting married this weekend.

19:11Chris Black:I know. Taylor was going to give me a ride on her plane, but I told her we had Levitation Festival. It was an environmental thing, just to be clear. Yeah, she got the offer but turned it down. She said, you know what? Pavement can have it. I'm kind of tired. It's cool of her. We've had a big year. We've had a big year this year.

19:26Jason Stewart:Yeah, a lot of great weddings. I'm happy for everyone. I've got to send Benny some pure beauty. He finally gave me his address.

19:37Chris Black:um i guess i get a lot of many videos on instagram like of him going on these horny cooking videos no no like he goes on these podcasts that like songwriting podcasts and he's just like plays the demo of diamonds and it's him and sia and it's as good it just sounds exactly it's like insane how good it is and it's just gifted it's fun to watch it's fun to watch

20:02Jason Stewart:shit like that like where it's i would rather watch him talk about music than him like rub a beef tenderloin with mustard like it's a dick i would rather yeah i would rather that for anyone

20:13Chris Black:really i think like whipped cream off of a man's nose or something that's maddie matheson that's his friend and they do weird stuff like that they do i also i want to shout out i don't know her name but when we were at the club we were given these they're called angels herbal cigarettes and And the packaging is very cool. It looks exactly like a cigarette box. But there's no nicotine or no tobacco. It's all just herbal blend. Yeah.

20:40Jason Stewart:Tobacco, nicotine-free, additive-free, dried herbs. You haven't smoked one yet, right? No, not yet. Not yet. So I've got herbal cigarettes. How does it smell? It smells like herbs. I know.

20:53Chris Black:I'm going to try. It's such an interesting... Because when she handed them to me, I was like, what?

20:57Jason Stewart:I got the Angels. I got the Hestias. and I got the Pure Beauties all in my pack right now. You got options.

21:03Chris Black:All my Shmokeables. I got all my Shmokeys in here. Who does your Shmokeables? Shmokeable program.

21:09Jason Stewart:Okay, well, we have a guest today on the pod, Lucy Dacus from Boy Genius and her solo career. We talked to her a couple days ago before we left and had a great fun convo. She's awesome.

21:24Chris Black:She is awesome. I didn't know about her. I didn't know much about, I mean, I know the music, obviously. she's been around and successful for a long time but i didn't know a lot about her upbringing which we shared a lot of commonalities which was always fun to get into yeah a couple southern birds couple southern birds uh but yeah thanks lucy for joining us i hope you guys enjoy the convo howlonggone.com is the website thank you levitation festival

21:47Jason Stewart:also eats con oh eats con next week october 4th in new york city chris black them jeans in conversation with alice and roman live on stage and then uh david chang and eddie wong and the guy from anna jack tie are going to be up there as well doing their thingy so uh everyone should come out i think tickets are affordable there's a bunch of food that you can buy watch us have a

22:14Chris Black:fun pod with with roman one of the greats one of the greats she got a new book it's she does have

22:20Jason Stewart:a new book she's pushing it saying yes to everything she's yeah she's she's hit the bottom you know and i'll be at levodore afterwards for the after party you will not be there nope hope

22:29Chris Black:to never go there again how long gone uh howlonggone.com is the website thank you for listening austin uh we love you i'll see you on the trail later this episode of how long gone is brought to you by superpower superpower jason you know recently i went to see the old doctor you know and I left the medical facility in Beverly Hills, and I felt like I didn't get any good info. It was sort of like, you're fine. Drink more water.

22:58Jason Stewart:I'm going to try this and let me know in three months. And I said, that doesn't seem very efficient, Doc.

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24:42Chris Black:Know yourself, know your worth, Jason. Make this the year you stop guessing about your health with Superpower. Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just$199, but for a limited time, our listeners at HowLongGone get an additional$20 off with code HOWLONG. Head to superpower.com and use code HOWLONG at checkout for$20 off your membership. After you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them and make sure you mention this podcast to support the show. This episode of HowLongGone is brought to you by our dear friends at BetterHelp. We are back with better help, Jason. Sometimes it can feel like everyone else has it all together in their love lives.

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26:31Chris Black:All right. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Cheers. We're up early. We got workouts. We're traveling. We're tracking our sleep score. But after the age of 30, which unfortunately we are, even responsibly drinking a little booze will make you feel less than 100 % the next day. And look, there are obviously more negative effects from alcohol than just dehydration. Otherwise, how could alcohol be hard on your brain and liver? It has a depressant effect on specific receptors in your brain and it's toxic to your liver. That's bad, Jason. What can we do? What do you think? Is there a fix for this?

27:05Chris Black:You think, is there a way to sort of hack this?

27:07Jason Stewart:That is bad, Chris. There is a good one. You know, I like to drink. I like to put them down a little bit. Certain alcohols give me certain feelings and headaches and bad feelings. You know, when I drink wine, I'll get a little, you know, I won't be feeling so good the next day compared to something else. And that's where I like to grab a little Cheers. They appeared over on Shark Tank.

27:27Chris Black:Let's go.

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28:23Lucy Dacus:there yeah i like to make sure you want to be able to make sure all the helium gets in that head of

28:28Jason Stewart:yours yeah for a healthy lifestyle i gotta say hi hi lucy how are you i'm jason that's chris um hi you're you're you appear to be pacing around is that your house in la or is that a hotel room

28:40Lucy Dacus:this is a hotel room i'm in new york i'm pacing just because it's nice i'll stop if you're

28:46Chris Black:bothered no no no you do whatever you do whatever you gotta do we're just jealous that we have to

28:50Lucy Dacus:be sort of positioned in front of microphones yeah no we want we like that you're pacing if it

28:55Jason Stewart:if it affects the audio quality i will okay to give you a little i respect it also yeah if there's a

29:01Chris Black:balcony don't go out there if you don't mind that's the only thing oh i won't yeah i would

29:05Lucy Dacus:be maybe too afraid to anyways we're pretty high up oh don't flex on us okay yeah we're pretty high up is that a thing the higher the room the closer to god or something the higher the room the further

29:15Jason Stewart:away from poor people is usually how the hotel system works in new york that's what that's what

29:20Chris Black:they say richard ashcroft told us a story about being at a hotel where they gave him no or liam's room liam gallagher's room by accident and he was like it was the biggest it was like as big as my house basically but it was so high up he was like i can't go liam was like are you gonna come up and meet me and he's like well there's no way for me to come up mate i'm on the top floor the uppest you can be i'm the upest i'm the upest i can be are you are you playing a show in new york or

29:47Lucy Dacus:you just building yes no building that's funny um i'm uh playing forest hills tomorrow i'm honestly freaked out i'm scared i i've played there a bunch when i was opening and i'm like headlining a

30:01Chris Black:festival and it's just which festival is it all things go is it all things go okay so but i'm sure you have some compatriots on the bill with you to make you you know to ease your nerves

30:10Lucy Dacus:Yeah, there's definitely people I want to see. Rachel Chino Riri, somebody I want to see.

30:17Chris Black:De Joe. I am familiar with that, but it sounds like you made up that name, and I like it.

30:20Lucy Dacus:Amazing name, amazing music, really great voice.

30:24Chris Black:Okay, you're vouching for all three, the trifecta. Chino Riri.

30:27Lucy Dacus:Okay.

30:27Chris Black:Rachel Chino Riri.

30:28Lucy Dacus:Yeah, Chino Riri. Good style.

30:30Chris Black:Okay. You're a De Joe fan? I say it like that on purpose. Joe.

30:34Lucy Dacus:Joe. I am. Yeah. and we play the same festival Europe this year got to hang out with him and his band extremely nice

30:44Jason Stewart:yeah he did this pod like a month or two ago he's a sweet guy just a regular old good

30:50Lucy Dacus:bro you know you know what's so funny is when people are like so regular it's like the implicit other statement is like I expected this person to be weird and bad well on this show we expect

31:02Chris Black:people to be weird and bad as much as possible because it's more fun for us but then most times people are pretty friendly and open with us yeah it's not it's not just weird and

31:12Jason Stewart:bad or weird or bad it's more of like you're a child actor with several tens of millions of dollars and fans yes you know like it is very difficult and rare for you to be in that situation

31:24Lucy Dacus:and be normal you know i guess that's real i guess that maybe is an asterisk on weird

31:29Jason Stewart:yeah for sure that context i put you in the same category by the way lucy you're a real down-to-earth

31:35Lucy Dacus:the chick oh thank you well i'll be down to earth when i go down the elevator

31:44Jason Stewart:i don't know why i'm acting all comfortable um it'll go 39 38 37 yeah i didn't know were you

31:51Chris Black:on a disney or nickelodeon show that we don't know about absolutely not okay i just wanted to make sure i didn't know when you found your talents you know what i'm saying sometimes

31:59Lucy Dacus:people find them young uh nah unless you count church which i guess maybe i do we count shirt

32:05Chris Black:we count which which denomination were you forced to be a part of i grew up southern baptist me too

32:11Lucy Dacus:me too welcome home queen that's right where are you from i'm from atlanta oh my god i was just i

32:16Chris Black:played shaky knees i was just in atlanta our only our marquee and only music festival is that true

32:21Lucy Dacus:i feel like atlanta is a music city we should have more festivals there used to be this thing

32:26Chris Black:called i mean when i was in high school i saw like outcast play this thing called music midtown it was sort of that way i think that's come back and you know it kind of fits and starts and it's not really working right now but where where are you from i'm from richmond virginia and the the

32:42Lucy Dacus:church i went to i didn't realize this if you're properly southern baptist you have to change the pastor every i'm gonna guess four years you can check me on that but really we went on denominational which I thought was like hip and like progressive.

32:58Chris Black:We welcome everyone type vibe.

33:00Lucy Dacus:Yeah, but it was actually so that my pastor could keep his job. Frankly, he was a good pastor. Like I'm not going to talk shade on him. He was very, really smart.

33:09Chris Black:Whenever pastors come up, I have this. My dad was on the pastor search committee, which is like the group of people at the church. The job is to locate the next pastor when one leaves or whatever. That's real. they got this guy in there was a we're looking for this guy paul pervitt paul pervitts he was a rock star you know what i mean like good looking good looking family really knew how to talk and you know a year in riding high on the hog he got busted fucking one of the deacon's wives on a on a on a church trip oh my god low-key i think it scarred my dad a little bit because i think it was like yeah oh shit am i is my picker broken like did i not see that this guy was capable you

33:53Lucy Dacus:know oh like he's responsible for the sinning exactly exactly he was responsible and not to

33:59Chris Black:mention he had a horrible child at home making his life hell so it's a combination of issues but is my picker broken did you go were you were you a wednesday and sunday i was at almost every day

34:10Lucy Dacus:of the week every day of the week so we you know it's funny you say wednesday sunday i was wednesday sunday at my church but my friends had thursday they had tuesday sometimes there's a monday or

34:22Jason Stewart:friday there were certainly some saturdays you were a church phenom i thought you'd say church fiend and i was going to tell you yes also also bro you a fiend for the church i'm a fiend fiend for god how much was bro i've been fiending for jesus lately i'm not even gonna lie okay so how how much of this church attendance was rooted in music and how much was rooted in your love of

34:45Lucy Dacus:christ our savior um i would say 100 both probably even at the time more so for god like music was i think music like my mom's a music teacher both my parents were in the church band i was too like music didn't seem like a separate thing from life like i didn't

35:03Jason Stewart:view it as a interest like tower records music is life yeah music is life like yeah i think

35:10Lucy Dacus:eating is like the greatest analog is just like oh yeah i guess i was just born having to do that

35:15Chris Black:and i have to do it every day yeah i guess i gotta breathe so i'll go every day of the week why not

35:19Lucy Dacus:Yeah, but yeah, I was very dedicated. I'm going to be real with y 'all. Did y 'all see the stuff about the rapture this week?

35:27Jason Stewart:Yeah, almost got us.

35:28Lucy Dacus:I thought I could just laugh with everyone, but there was a part of me that was scared in my stomach.

35:39Chris Black:Okay, so you're saying that your religious upbringing was so strong that the rapture jokes were hitting a little too close to home and you were maybe feeling a little nervous.

35:49Jason Stewart:What percentage of genuine fear was inside of your body?

35:55Lucy Dacus:You mean like yesterday and the day before?

35:58Jason Stewart:Yeah. When the rapture was about to hit, was it like 15 % chance I'm going to die?

36:03Lucy Dacus:15 sounds right.

36:04Jason Stewart:Okay, 15 sounds good.

36:05Lucy Dacus:Not like, oh, it's going to happen. I think it just drew up. I used to love the Book of Revelations. And I, as a child, would reread it and be assured. you know like oh i'm gonna get there and i have this distinct memory of being like the rapture is gonna happen before i turn 10 i know it's gonna happen because i can't imagine going to middle school and so i was so sure of this that like when i had to go back to school shopping for sixth grade i was like holy shit i'm wrong like i can't believe that i was just like buying pencils like i have a whole life ahead of me that i didn't expect so so your ass got a record deal before you

36:49Jason Stewart:got raptured yeah you did not expect that to happen you're like i don't want this i did not

36:53Lucy Dacus:no no no i definitely thought the rapture was going to happen before record deal wow i am okay

36:57Chris Black:i didn't i guess i was pretty um i wasn't indoctrinated might be the wrong word i just wasn't a believer like i was deep i never i was forced to go and it felt when i try to explain to people that are not from the South is that Christianity is almost like Judaism in New York. It's like part of the culture. It's not necessarily, not everyone is as devout as you're describing, but you still go and you still participate because it's like, quote unquote, the right thing to do.

37:27Lucy Dacus:Right. Also what people don't, I think, understand, I don't know if this is how it was in Atlanta, but Christianity was like counterculture. Me and my friends were like, you know what? We don't care what people think of us like it felt punk like we'd wake up early and do like prayer circles around the flag and it was like this special little subgroup like it felt like a subculture what so christianity was a counterculture yeah what what was the bigger culture that you guys were countering against the devil i guess yeah yeah okay the dominant culture is like you know

38:00Chris Black:satan and sound garden or whatever yeah big popular name of god but i i would say if you

38:06Jason Stewart:In the American South, if everyone is going to church and it's ingrained in everyone's lifestyle, then wouldn't Satan be a little more counterculture? You know, I can't answer that. That's why I'm rocking with the devil.

38:20Chris Black:No, I see. I know what you mean, though, because it was still like, it's like any other high school. It's like there's sex. You know, there's like, I do this, I do that. you know and like the at some points the that group that that lucy's talking about the we go to chick-fil-a at 7 a.m and then we pray around a flag that was like there would be like hot chicks so you'd be like well maybe this is cool i don't know yeah like i don't know it was high drama you

38:49Lucy Dacus:know everyone because you're a teenager too so everyone's like wrestling with their sexuality so there's this like don't like there's this dramatic tension of like are you gonna fall from grace like or someone has to repent for their sins. It was just really dramatic.

39:04Jason Stewart:Is Chloe going to fall from grace and suck that guy's dick? I don't know. We'll see. Yeah, that's literally what it was like.

39:10Chris Black:No, no. We were on the church trip to Whitewater. I swear she got fingered under a jacket. That was literally the vibe.

39:16Lucy Dacus:You don't even want to know the shit that goes down at a vacation Bible school. I know so many people who have lost their virginity and repented within the same day. So let me say this. I'm 14.

39:29Chris Black:All of a sudden, it falls into my lap. I lose my virginity. Do I repent by admitting it to the higher-ups, like admitting it to God or do I have to admit it to the higher-ups too? Do I have to tell my mommy?

39:43Lucy Dacus:I could tell you a story. I think you just admit it to God. I'll keep this kind of brief. There was a youth group where they split up the boys and the girls and this happened annually. There was kind of like a sex seminar every year, maybe even one that went on for like multiple months. But this pregnant woman sat in front of all the girls and were like, listen, I didn't I waited until I was married. I'm so glad about sex is bad. It feels bad. Never do it. I'm so glad I got pregnant my first time. I'm never doing that again. Oh, wow. You shouldn't be looking forward to this. It feels bad is so cool.

40:22Lucy Dacus:She just scared everyone. and she was like she's like i've literally had sex one time thank god i'm pregnant i'm like and then at the end of that they were like if anyone would like to stand and confess their sexual sins and um repent uh you can and there were people there were girls like we were all cross-legged on the floor and the girls would stand up and be like i jimper got my boyfriend and like two weeks ago i'm really struggling to know if i should say anything and you know like and everyone's crying and like hugging her and like this adult obviously insane woman is like you

41:02Chris Black:are forgiven you know like what right do you have bitch like you just work here like that's so awful

41:07Jason Stewart:and in her mind she's like when i was jerking my boyfriend off in his truck it seemed like he didn't hate it and it didn't hurt it seemed like he really liked it he told me he really liked it that's a very toxic thing to instill into a young woman's brain that like yeah it feels great for

41:24Lucy Dacus:dudes ladies not so much and not you it's nice it's nice to hear this because i think that

41:30Chris Black:sometimes i've just forgotten what it was like a little bit you know like i just kind of my life is so far from that that I rarely go back there. Yeah, I've seen. It was so normal. True love waits, like your dad giving you the ring so you don't have sex. That is weird as hell.

41:49Lucy Dacus:Yeah, this is a podcast, so people are not seeing my facial expressions, I understand, but you're just saying so much stuff. This is not what I expected to talk to you about.

41:59Chris Black:Hey, we could do this all day. No, I mean, I really don't encounter people that often. Yeah. Because I think most kids did it until they found ecstasy in sex or whatever, and they're like, all right, mom, fuck this. And if you're not, then if you don't make it out by 15, 16, 17, sometimes you're a lifer.

42:16Lucy Dacus:Yeah. I had a slow fade out when I was like 19. So that even feels kind of late.

42:23Chris Black:What was the impetus for the fade out? What happened that made you question your faith? Did you discover some literature?

42:30Lucy Dacus:Well, actually, well, in a way, kind of. I was one of the high school, I was reading Krishnamurti alongside the Bible for a long time. Earlier on, I shed the hatred of gay people. or sure i even like reading more about the origins of our idea of hell like hell isn't even mentioned in the old testament like it's kind of translated as like a trash fire which was like an actual trash fire so it was like metaphorical even at the time anyways an actual trash fire so yeah it

43:07Jason Stewart:was called gehenna dude i went to hell it's like a literal dumpster fire you guys it was saying

43:11Lucy Dacus:like it'll you'll be sent to gehenna which were the the trash pile of the town so it was i'm gonna

43:19Chris Black:start calling people i'm gonna start calling people gehenna look at this gehenna ass over

43:23Jason Stewart:here there was a hardcore band when i was in high school there was a hardcore straight edge band called gehenna and i was like i don't know what that word but it sounds sick as hell are you

43:33Lucy Dacus:learning right now what it means yes that's cool i did not know that it meant trash fire i will say Yeah, it was the dump. It was the town dump.

43:41Jason Stewart:I assumed that it was a dark biblical place, but I didn't know we were burning trash like how they do in Europe. Am I right?

43:47Lucy Dacus:It's where hell is derived from. If I'm wrong, sorry, but I think I'm right. Don't worry.

43:53Chris Black:All of our religious listeners, I was just looking, actually,

43:55Jason Stewart:I was looking at the All Things Go lineup and it just reminded me when Jujo was on, he was like, yeah, I'm playing this festival and I realized I'm the only guy on the entire lineup. what do you think is up with that and i was like i think it's because chicks want to fuck you but let's dig into it what do you think because i was looking at the lineup and it is just it's just cool sexy hot ladies playing the show yeah i would say the people who put on this

44:20Lucy Dacus:festival expressly are making that effort because if you look at there's actually there's a group called like book more women where they'll delete every band without women in it and sometimes

44:33Chris Black:there's no bands left oh they'll like take they'll like take the lineup and just be like let's plug in our algorithm here and we'll take out the just to see like how many women have been booked in this

44:43Lucy Dacus:festival and sometime there are some festivals where there are zero bands left or maybe there's

44:49Chris Black:two bands in a small font that actually that's so crazy because i feel like when i look at lineups i'm only look maybe that's just my personal taste yeah like i i would i would also like because like all the quote unquote girlies are so big right now it feels like it's sabrina carpenter at the top of everything no matter what yeah but one is one is not yeah not 50 you know

45:12Lucy Dacus:i think it's it's great and also i've played this festival before and i think the fan bases the people who book it understand who's going and what they like and they just happen to like all of these

45:23Chris Black:songwriters this was this was in this i think i think this started in dc maryweather post pavilion is that venue why do people like that venue because there's like an animal collective record named after it or is it because it's actually good it's legitimately good

45:36Lucy Dacus:and for me sentimentally they had free fest there do you remember this what is free fest who's who's the guy virgin mobile who's like the mogul rich guy who's kind of crazy richard branson yes he had a festival the tickets were free it was a regular like i went i saw alabama shakes and

45:56Jason Stewart:jack white and yeah i'm looking at it right now uh mgmt yeah this one here's a lineup to it's uh brothers skrillex alabama shakes future islands nazi top santo gold jack white m83 yes all over

46:11Lucy Dacus:the place i saw like 60 percent of people you just said zz top was incredible i have to say They do a little step touch coordination.

46:20Jason Stewart:Yeah, I mean.

46:21Lucy Dacus:But it was free. And me and my friends would all sit on our computers and like refresh, refresh, see how many we could get. It was just, I think, for him to like throw this big party. There was one year he stood at the top of the amphitheater and like poured champagne on all the things.

46:38Chris Black:You know, Richard Branson, for all of the billionaire talk we have in today's world, Branson, I think, maybe got out unscathed. I think he's still rich and not canceled. Am I wrong?

46:52Jason Stewart:I'm not up to speed. I don't think he's canceled. I know he has a private island. Yeah, he has an island. That's famously. Post-Epstein island ownership gets a little murky in the billionaire space.

47:05Lucy Dacus:I would say island ownership by one guy is always murky. Hey, hey, hey.

47:11Chris Black:If you had the opportunity to purchase an island, would you be interested in having your own piece of property like that?

47:16Lucy Dacus:I'd probably do it as like a co-op situation. I feel like especially... Okay, all right, relax.

47:23Chris Black:I'm about to come till the land to stay there? Is that what you're saying?

47:26Lucy Dacus:Well, I mean, I feel like I should stop. I am interested in doing land-backed stuff in this lifetime. So I think if I were to do that, I would like entrust it to the indigenous people that are meant to be sorting that land.

47:40Chris Black:You're saying you're saying let me just give this back to the OGs because this ain't really mine anyway.

47:44Lucy Dacus:Yeah.

47:47Chris Black:Yeah.

47:48Lucy Dacus:If I get the chance in this lifetime to do that, I'll be so pleased.

47:52Chris Black:That's a personal that's a goal. I've literally never heard anyone say before. So I'm pretty I'm compelled by this, but it is going to cost a lot of money.

48:00Jason Stewart:You're a custodian of Earth. I think that's great. I mean, you could start small. I could picture you. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

48:06Lucy Dacus:No, you go ahead.

48:08Jason Stewart:Okay. I could picture you owning a small Scottish island with a cottage on it. Just bringing a guitar and a couple bottles of rosé and just seeing what happens, you know. And then when you're done, give it back to the Scottish people, of course. Charge them a small rent, you know, property tax.

48:23Lucy Dacus:I'm going to choose that this is a compliment instead of.

48:26Chris Black:She's like, I'm not really talking about the Scottish people having their land stolen, but I guess that works too.

48:31Lucy Dacus:um i haven't like closer talked about it but i did get to do a land back project last year where there's this um woman in mexico whose land was taken when she was a child and she's like in her 70s or 80s now has always wanted to have her like ancestral homes back and my friend told me about it and i was able to help her buy back the land and now they send me videos and they're like building um in all the traditional methods like this sweat huts and um it's like hopefully going to be like a artist residency for some people so i don't know i'm i'm that's amazing being earnest i feel like y 'all are are fun and funny we do both no but that's that's actually i no no that's crazy because i didn't know i guess i just don't yeah like how do you get that call i guess because

49:26Chris Black:someone knew you were interested so they they got in touch with you when when the time came

49:29Lucy Dacus:yeah i have a friend my friend aaron shout out who uh is just indigenous and really tapped in with like people's needs and um has hit me up before and whenever i'm able i try to answer those calls and at my tours and at boy genius tours we've had locally like indigenous folks come on stage and like you welcome the territories and say what's up locally because there's a lot of like active issues sure all the time i think people think like oh that like happened so long ago it's like irrelevant but there are constantly things well you know a lot of a lot of bad things

50:08Chris Black:happened a long time ago that's still bad that's sort of how good it's sort of how it goes yeah

50:15Jason Stewart:it doesn't make it less bad because it happened a long time ago it sounds like you're spending your money in a beautiful way you know and i i would love to go down and it would be cool if there were areas all over mexico and they had you painted as a virgin mary who's saved the land you know oh my god i can't think of something more that would be nice

50:41Chris Black:so crazy i can't think of anything she's like there's a fan that has a tattoo like that of me but I've never seen it on a wall, you know, in this, in this case.

50:51Lucy Dacus:You know what? Their English fan that has a tattoo like that.

50:54Chris Black:No.

50:54Lucy Dacus:Eyes on their thigh. Yeah. What's funny about your face getting tattooed on someone is like, not only is the artist going to get it right, maybe, maybe not, and then people's body changes.

51:09Chris Black:Especially the thighs. You change too. Yeah, thighs be changing. Thighs be changing. Thighs be changing. changing so we do okay so something like that how do you see it for the first time at a show

51:21Lucy Dacus:somebody comes up and flashes the the quad tat to you well the first time not my face but the first like fan tattoo was like this owl with like some lyrics under it and that was in 2016 when i was like still selling my own merch like talking to everybody i'm sorry i'm sorry you had to go through that it is um unadvisable inadvisable inadvisable um but both in this case fuck it

51:45Jason Stewart:I mean, like, either works.

51:47Lucy Dacus:You know what I'm saying.

51:48Jason Stewart:Sometimes you gots to.

51:49Lucy Dacus:Sometimes you gots to. But that was a really wild day because I was like, this is going to matter to this person forever. I felt this responsibility. Like, I better not suck in the future because this person cannot regret this tattoo.

52:04Chris Black:You know, I look, I have a Smith's tattoo and it's totally fine. You know what I mean? Like, I can't. You have to. Honor your past. Yeah, I think that's part of the... You still have time to fuck up, but you're on the right path. So they're fine for now.

52:19Lucy Dacus:Yeah, fine for now. Such is the body in and of itself. Fine for now.

52:24Chris Black:But you're saying that you've seen several tatties over the years then.

52:30Lucy Dacus:Yeah, I think that's maybe just the type of fan I have, which is kind of nice that people are really listening and moved enough to do that. I'm not complaining and I'm not making fun. No, no.

52:46Chris Black:I expect your fans to be like that.

52:48Jason Stewart:There's people out there who have tattoos of DJs and shit and you are making real music. You change my life. Yeah, you do make... I change. How many people scream out, your music saved me in between songs? You know what I mean? How many times does that happen?

53:03Lucy Dacus:I would say enough that it's crazy.

53:07Chris Black:Sure. You're like more than I'm comfortable with, but if that's their truth that's their truth an hour it's like i can't really they know what they mean like i can't even begin to really know what they mean also like this is a weird person to

53:21Lucy Dacus:bring into the space but you know young blood yes i saw him telling a fan i saw a um this is a weird

53:29Chris Black:person to bring into this space really cool way to warm up young blood into the conversation that

53:35Lucy Dacus:I knew that was going to be unexpected from my mouth, but I saw him, like a fan was like, you saved my life. And he was like, no, you saved your life.

53:43Chris Black:Oh, he gave it.

53:44Lucy Dacus:No, man, you saved your life, man. Exactly.

53:47Jason Stewart:He took his shirt off and he was like, you saved your life.

53:50Lucy Dacus:No, you saved your life. You did that.

53:52Chris Black:Usually with guys like that.

53:53Jason Stewart:You did that, babes.

53:54Chris Black:I can get it. Like I can watch a few clips and be like, all right, yeah, I get it. But that guy being embraced by the old guard of metal as this is our guy is shocking to me, kind of, because he's so clearly corny. But I guess he's also a child actor, so he is hamming it up. Is he? Yeah, he was on TV. He was on Nickelodeon or Disney, no joke. He's not some rough and tumble guy from Manchester or anything.

54:31Lucy Dacus:Interesting.

54:31Jason Stewart:He was on a Disney Channel series called The Lodge and a long-running British soap opera called Emmerdale. Okay. What's his real name, Jason? Please tell me it's something good. His real name is Dominic Harrison. Oh, that's a fine. Yeah, that's normal.

54:46Chris Black:Damn. I was hoping for something a little more fucked up.

54:48Lucy Dacus:Dominic is a hot guy name. My basis name is Dominic. I feel like there's a lot of hot Dominics in the world.

54:54Jason Stewart:Yeah. I'm going over to Dom's house. Don't wait up.

54:58Lucy Dacus:Yeah. Dom. Come on.

55:00Chris Black:I'm hard. Dom called me. Dom. Yeah. He texted me at two. I still went over there. Fucking Dom. You know how it is.

55:07Lucy Dacus:Yeah. Wait, I have a question.

55:09Chris Black:Yeah, please.

55:10Lucy Dacus:This is going to be, I just mean to ask this before this is over. This will be weird if the answer is no. Chris, do you take photos?

55:18Chris Black:Yeah. Yeah, I do.

55:19Lucy Dacus:Hell yeah. I just bought your photo book.

55:22Chris Black:Wait, where?

55:23Lucy Dacus:Idea? At Agony Books in Richmond, Virginia. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I saw it. I was like, Chris Black, Chris Black, who is that? And I thought it was someone I did house shows with in like 2016.

55:35Chris Black:Well, unfortunately, I'm a little old. We could have done a house show together, but it would have been in 99, and you probably weren't.

55:41Lucy Dacus:What was your band?

55:42Chris Black:I was in a band called One Step Closer, but I lived in a house that had shows. So like I was at a house show literally every night by default. Same.

55:51Lucy Dacus:You know? Wow. You probably wouldn't have come through Richmond and played my house. It had a little life before me.

55:56Chris Black:My house had a life before me too. They sort of got passed down for a period, you know? Yes. Do you still go to Richmond? Do you live in Richmond?

56:05Lucy Dacus:No. I was just there. I played like a hometown show and I had never been to that store. It's by Jesse Feynman, I think his name is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's great. He does like Pomegranate Press. Yeah. um yeah my my photographer ashley gellman who's in the other room um she loves the store and i had never been somehow i guess it i missed it while i was living there which is really weird because i was like studying this photo and you're like i really should have known about this i really should have known they should have been telling people about it i really like i find richmond really charming and those like old houses and like and i know they're affordable compared to

56:43Chris Black:like new york or la and they're like beautiful um but i don't know if i could live in richmond

56:48Lucy Dacus:virginia you know i think i could if i didn't grow up there it is an awesome place there's good food

56:53Chris Black:the river's awesome it's walkable so you're saying you still you still you're like i need to go

56:58Lucy Dacus:because i spent i did it but like i see the charm i see the charm i feel the pull i think if everyone if nobody cared who I was. It's really just, I just feel like oversized or something.

57:13Chris Black:Yeah, for sure.

57:14Lucy Dacus:Like kind of a place where people can put either their resentments or aggrandizement and both are uncomfortable. Yeah.

57:24Chris Black:I mean, if you grew up somewhere.

57:26Jason Stewart:Yeah, I guess you are like a star of Richmond. So when you come into town, all the baristas start going loco, right?

57:34Chris Black:the barista she paid for a coffee in it she ain't paid for a coffee in a decade at least i'm sure

57:39Lucy Dacus:i don't drink coffee so that's true you're like i don't drink coffee because the baristas were

57:44Chris Black:just too aggressive with me i had to stop going in there stop whoever is giving you your tea ceremony is losing their shit i should say yeah no but i think that's a real thing when you because if you grow up somewhere and you have some success then it's the people that discovered you and like your music but it's also the people you went to high school with and the people that your parents are friends with and this you know becomes a much bigger circle of people that want a piece

58:06Lucy Dacus:also in smaller towns i think in southern towns i don't know if you feel this but like there's sort of this connection between leaving the town and having a moral failing like oh you're not sticking by your people or like people that stay don't maybe understand or want to leave like yeah so So just feeling a little misunderstood, but not across the board.

58:36Chris Black:I love the idea of you, you of all people getting called Hollywood when you go back to Richmond. You know what I mean?

58:41Jason Stewart:Well, well, well.

58:42Lucy Dacus:You should see me in LA. I'm not leaving my house. I'm walking my dog. I am like, I'm living the most pastorally because like living in show houses, I've lived with like six to eight people my whole life. And now my life is so quiet. I'm just sitting in my yard. Like I kind of feel like I'm in the country living in LA.

59:02Jason Stewart:Well, where in LA do you live? I live in Glendale. You don't have to dox yourself if you don't want to.

59:08Lucy Dacus:Yeah. I was like, I'm not telling you, but I live probably within a 20 minute drive of you in some direction.

59:18Jason Stewart:I mean, I'm assuming it's not West Hollywood. I'm assuming I could, I'm not going to guess.

59:24Chris Black:I would, I would, I would pay money for me to run into you at Erwan and WeHo. on like a Tuesday morning. Oh, Lucy, what's up? What are you doing here?

59:32Lucy Dacus:Crazy. I'm going to tell you something about Air One. They have one thing that I really like, so I do go there.

59:40Chris Black:We're leaving today and entering a world of Mickey Mouse waving, princess meeting and greeting,

59:48Jason Stewart:lightsaber clashing, the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror dropping, Banshee flying, Space Mountain launching, galaxy rewinding, What is the wonder book galaxy rewinding?

1:00:00Chris Black:Fireworks igniting. World of Other Worlds. For whatever you love. Infinite worlds await at the most magical place on Earth. Walt Disney World Resort. When you want your spring break to feel like... And your kid's pool day to feel like... And your hotel bed to feel like... Ooh, and room service to feel like... Because at Hilton, hospitality feels like... Your cabana's ready. Would you like fresh towels?

1:00:32Lucy Dacus:It matters where you stay. Book now at Hilton.com. Hilton. For this day.

1:00:42Chris Black:This episode is brought to you by Nespresso. Introducing VirtuoUp, the latest in a long line of innovation from Nespresso. It's innovation you can touch, sense, and taste in every single cup. With a three-second start, easy open lever, and dedicated brew over ice button, it's even easier to enjoy your coffee your way. Sip for yourself. Shop VirtuoUp exclusively at Nespresso.com. Of course you do. We're all a victim. What's the one thing you really like?

1:01:13Lucy Dacus:It's a cashew cardamom almond butter. Oh. And it keeps me happy.

1:01:24Jason Stewart:This sounds like a$27 item, first and foremost.

1:01:28Lucy Dacus:It is probably somewhere between$16 and$20.

1:01:31Chris Black:Okay,$16 and$20. Cashew cardamom butter. Where is your favorite place to slather this butter?

1:01:36Lucy Dacus:on a banana on some toast on let's say banana toast

1:01:44Lucy Dacus:it's a great base for my banana toast yeah it's really good if you get just a really good vanilla ice cream and a really good nut butter of any kind that's the best ice cream mix it up oh are you dairy free no i am not this is a great podcast are you i don't mean to overstep but i i mean i

1:02:04Jason Stewart:I hear cashew butter and Erewhon, and I know that it's like cashew butter, like peanut butter, but it could also be like cashew cream, like actual butter replacement. You know what I mean? Oh, I see. I see.

1:02:15Lucy Dacus:I mean, I'll go there.

1:02:17Chris Black:Were you vegan at some point?

1:02:20Lucy Dacus:I was vegetarian for a while, but I was actually having some vocal issues. And I went to a vocal coach, and they were like, you need red meat. And I was like, eh. And then I also went to the doctor, and they were like, you need red meat. everyone has told me there's something about me okay and my health that i need it so i'm back in

1:02:39Chris Black:okay what jason what's what's your one thing at erwan pizza pepperoni pizza slice of pepperoni

1:02:45Jason Stewart:pizza it's the only real value at erwan where it's like i spent the correct amount of money and received the correct amount of food for that price it's rare to get that at erwan the avocado roll or anywhere that's what i'm going there for but i respect avocado roll the avocado roll is

1:03:01Lucy Dacus:high value because it's like 20 pieces or something okay i'm a value slut so i'm always

1:03:06Jason Stewart:hunting for that kind of stuff me too okay well i see the hard-boiled eggs for 18 i'm like okay

1:03:11Lucy Dacus:that's not worth it ew you can do that i mean i'm exaggerating but like you can get a little

1:03:17Jason Stewart:plastic thing of like three hard-boiled eggs and it costs like more than a dozen eggs if i get

1:03:23Chris Black:three vegetables in a takeout container this is no joke it's it's literally 30 that's not an exaggeration i like it because i know that's what i'm going i'm paying to watch the people

1:03:36Lucy Dacus:the food is secondary okay yeah i'm there for the culture is what i'm is what i'm trying to say is what i'm trying to say i'm there for the specific little drinks that i can only get there

1:03:45Chris Black:and this butter what's your what's your issue with coffee so i just couldn't afford it like

1:03:51Lucy Dacus:growing up and i was like every day people spend money on this like no no no same for like cigarettes

1:04:00Chris Black:Damn, so you've never even done cocaine. That's crazy. I have never done cocaine.

1:04:04Lucy Dacus:I'll tell you that. You've never done cocaine. Too broke to smoke? I've never done coke. I'm too broke to smoke. No, I want to just say I have zero fucking interest in that, having seen people on coke from the outside enough.

1:04:17Chris Black:See, here's the thing about coke, Lucy. When you see other people on it, it's not cool. But when you're on it, and then you're with those other people, and they're on it, it's very cool.

1:04:27Lucy Dacus:Here's the thing. i'm gonna save a few things for when i'm bored and that's one of them i but currently like i feel like you should always have a few things on deck that you're gonna do instead of kill yourself and i think that that isn't really good honestly great advice honestly great advice that's great

1:04:50Jason Stewart:yeah i need to think about that like i'm really feeling down get an eight ball and you're like I have someone really close to me

1:04:59Lucy Dacus:and I'm not going to say who because he'll be embarrassed but he's like 65 and he did coke recently for the first time that is very cool

1:05:08Jason Stewart:I'm so proud of your dad that is so cool that he did that that's really brave of him

1:05:17yeah

1:05:18Chris Black:and what did this person have to say about it

1:05:23Lucy Dacus:it came up because we were talking and I was like do you know that I do do mushrooms occasionally and I was like

1:05:33Chris Black:somehow Lucy that doesn't surprise me somehow it doesn't surprise me

1:05:36Lucy Dacus:I'm also going to choose to take that as a compliment instead of a diss but yeah and then instead of acknowledging what I said he was like I did coke recently

1:05:51Jason Stewart:a little tit for tat

1:05:52Lucy Dacus:oh yeah you i'm cool too i'm cool yeah he just um he was out at a bar with some younger friends and i guess there's plenty of that in richmond uh virginia richmond's a big richmond's a big coke

1:06:06Chris Black:atlanta and richmond are both big never too late never too late to start a great house that's inspiring honestly i think more p i think that's very cool to be like you know what i've done what i need to do it's my time now yeah i'm gonna choose to do what i want yeah like when people

1:06:20Lucy Dacus:get their first tattoo in their 60s as well yeah that is always like wow life will continue to

1:06:27Jason Stewart:delight and surprise or maybe maybe have like a gay summer in their 60s you know what i mean just yeah yeah that's yeah that's also more like hey i'm gonna start eating red meat in my 60s why not lucy when you're in la where do you have any restaurants that you really love

1:06:45Lucy Dacus:um there's some that i just don't want other people to go to so sure actually you know what

1:06:52Chris Black:why don't you just say all of them and jason will bleep them out we bleep out stuff all the time i'll

1:06:56Lucy Dacus:i'll say the ones that like everyone there's ones that everyone already knows like night market is great night market yeah um and those are all over the city um i really like justa in santa monica or venice i guess okay have you been there another classic of course another classic yeah yeah delicious um what the hell else oh angel's tacos those are all over the city angel's tacos like the the cart where is it have you been to that all over but it's like outside grocery stores usually oh sure and there's long lines but they're pastor it's cool they like shave it off the spit then they cut a pineapple at the top and they catch it like three feet down and it's always they make the tortillas in front of you there's a performance there's a performance

1:07:39Chris Black:element.

1:07:39Lucy Dacus:There's a performance element.

1:07:41Jason Stewart:I had some tacos de pastor just last night for dinner. It was on Rowena and Hyperion right by the Pinkberry and the Silver Lake Trader Joe's. There's a good little pastor spot there as well. That Pinkberry's still open, right? Somehow, Pinkberry, we were parked eating food in our car just in the parking lot. Steady stream of people going in and out of Pinkberry in 2025. Beautiful to see. Beautiful. Pinkberry's good, you know? That tart flavor you just can't get anywhere else that's what carol that's what my wife said yesterday she's like nobody does tart like pink

1:08:12Chris Black:bear it is what it is they closed them there's not any i don't think there's any left in new york but i also feel like there's the cut like 16 handles is still around is this the like embedded

1:08:22Lucy Dacus:podcast ad for no no no we would we would we would cut we would break you off we would break

1:08:28Jason Stewart:you off use the promo code lucy at checkout on doordash if you're using lucy we're gonna take

1:08:34Chris Black:We're going to take you out for a funny. We need to take Lucy somewhere funny in Beverly Hills. Get her out of her comfort zone.

1:08:40Jason Stewart:I want to take Lucy out to some Korean barbecue and get some red meat injections going.

1:08:45Lucy Dacus:Yeah. I mean, I'm there. I have a friend who's been to every restaurant in Koreatown, and I'm waiting for her to give me the tour.

1:08:52Chris Black:How much of your time? Well, when you're off the road, you said you're a homebody or you like to hit Cabo and lay in the sun?

1:09:01Lucy Dacus:I am almost never home. so i do like to be at my house i like to walk a lot and i don't know i'll go out when people ask i feel like i need whenever i need to socialize i need to do it immediately whenever i need to be alone i need that immediately so it's that's been really easy to do in la are you a virgo i'm a taurus are you a virgo both virgos yeah we're both virgos you're both virgos do you guys have like color-coded stuff in your house i'm not that kind of i'm not color-coded

1:09:38Chris Black:no yeah like freaky i know what you mean like organized but you're aesthetically oh but you're

1:09:42Lucy Dacus:a photographer like you have like an aesthetic organizational sense i'm very concerned that

1:09:47Chris Black:everything be exactly how i want it to be if that's what you mean no that's what i mean causes

1:09:51Jason Stewart:a problem for my loved ones um but and i'm that way with audio editing my dad is a virgo and a

1:09:58Lucy Dacus:graphic designer and super particular.

1:10:01Chris Black:So your, your parents now think it's cool what you're doing.

1:10:05Lucy Dacus:Oh yeah. I think they've always like thought it was cool. They just didn't think it could be a job. Sure. And I also didn't think it could be a job. So I didn't realize it was a job until it was paying my rent. Yeah. It was just what I was doing.

1:10:20Jason Stewart:I didn't realize this was a job until I was making a living income from it. Well, did you, was there a moment where you like bought

1:10:27Lucy Dacus:your dad a truck or something like that not to southern you no actually what did i do where i

1:10:33Jason Stewart:was like this worked i mean you can get him tickets to shows probably oh 100 um i mean i'm still he

1:10:40Lucy Dacus:has i'm supposed to introduce him to bruce springsteen someday that is what he wants and

1:10:48Chris Black:that is what i want that's the most dad shit of all time do you know bruce springsteen we did meet

1:10:55Lucy Dacus:and he did he called me on my birthday this year

1:11:01Jason Stewart:so you're saying you get a call an unknown number did you let it go to voicemail or did

1:11:06Lucy Dacus:you answer unknown can i tell you this cold facetime unknown number so sick so and i did not pick up yeah of course not i was like no way i'm in bed yeah you're in bed stone watching

1:11:19Jason Stewart:Netflix, hunting wives, unknown FaceTime, I throw the phone across the room.

1:11:25Lucy Dacus:I'm like, I'm

1:11:25Jason Stewart:30.

1:11:28Lucy Dacus:I said no, but then he sent a video. And then I got dressed really fast and called him back.

1:11:34Chris Black:That's amazing. You're saying you met Bruce Springsteen one time, but obviously he appreciates your music. He's maybe a fan. So for your birthday, he wanted to just kind of call and wish you the best.

1:11:47Lucy Dacus:we we met once yeah in person and then uh you're being a little cagey here do you guys hook up or something it feels weird i just don't like i don't know he's been married for a long time so just level with us it's just one of you know i don't try to be all no i know i know uh talking i don't

1:12:08Jason Stewart:know i know that it's very it's an awkward subject to navigate don't worry like just other other

1:12:15Lucy Dacus:people's names but it did happen and it is crazy um but i phoebe uh my friend who is in boy genius bridgers was like bruce it's lucy's uh birthday you should call and he did and he was like i've been listening to your record all day like here are my four favorite songs and he like said my

1:12:36Chris Black:lyrics back to me and crazy it was that's amazing he's he's the best i really like when people like that recognize the power that they have and then distribute it accordingly like he knows that calling you even though it's genuine he just knows what it means you know he's not in denial

1:12:53Lucy Dacus:of what it means for him to do that no it takes like real comfort in yourself and confidence and generosity and i just feel like he's got a lot of traits that i admire and i mean i've been he's my dad's favorite artists so i grew up listening to him and i i don't know if like i have music without his music so again i'm being earnest on the funny no no no that's the architect you can

1:13:20Jason Stewart:talk about here's a question when you're facetiming the god did we do a screenshot i did not do a

1:13:27Chris Black:screenshot he did she didn't need to he sent the video so she's got it in the files at that point

1:13:32Lucy Dacus:I do have that

1:13:34Jason Stewart:Your self control and restraint Is otherworldly I would be snapping that shit

1:13:40Lucy Dacus:I mean here I am not drinking coffee Or doing cocaine

1:13:43Jason Stewart:Self restraint

1:13:48Lucy Dacus:That actually might be true

1:13:49Chris Black:You did a Taylor Swift tour right?

1:13:51Lucy Dacus:A Taylor Swift tour?

1:13:52Chris Black:Didn't you?

1:13:54Lucy Dacus:No, Phoebe did But me and Julian came on for two of the shows To do a few songs

1:13:59Chris Black:I was just like these three hour sets man i feel like bruce is the og of that and now everybody's doing it yeah and i don't need it i don't need three hours from anybody they're both that's the thing is like the

1:14:12Lucy Dacus:time flies if you're a real artist you know they they can do it because no one's getting tired because they are keeping the energy up i went to a bruce show with my dad and like my dad psychically knew like before like the first chord he knew what song it was every single time and that's who you're next to and that's who's in front of you and behind you and so it's like yeah this uh you float on that it's so impressive that's funny that happened to me that happened to

1:14:43Chris Black:me with one of my friends when i took him to see depeche mode and then by the before the before the encore i was like bro i gotta go i'm i'm i'm like i'm just i'm happy i'm happy that you're so excited i mean we saw oasis i didn't want to leave i mean i don't speak on it i feel that i i leave everything a little early i just can't help myself i can't stay till the bitter end i don't know i just i'm too much of an efficiency freak i have to get out of there i

1:15:08Jason Stewart:can't like line up the lineup oh that's why he doesn't stick around for dessert at the restaurant

1:15:14Chris Black:either i'm trying to get like i the killers are like one of my favorite bands and i i could hear every song every night and i'll leave i gotta leave i could take three hours of the killers i

1:15:24Lucy Dacus:i also i mean when we talk about bruce worship yeah school of bruce the killers i i sang with them recently what's at a festival uh read my mind read my mind wow that's like oh that's a big

1:15:41Jason Stewart:yeah i know it was at oceaga in montreal did you do a good job or did you yeah i did i i

1:15:49Lucy Dacus:I hope I did. I sing a lot more quiet than him. I think they, like, and I was nervous. Because it's like, I felt like I won like a sweepstakes or something.

1:16:00Jason Stewart:Like when they bring a little kid on to play guitar with Blink-182 or something like that. And like, she actually rocks. 100%.

1:16:07Lucy Dacus:Who I also saw this week. They played, Atlanta, they played Shaky Knees. Were they good? Blink was amazing. Like, Travis Barker is a circus. Like watching him play drums. It's a nitro circus. Is like.

1:16:22Chris Black:And that's just. You're not even talking about his personal life. You're saying on the drum set.

1:16:25Lucy Dacus:No, just the drum set. Solely the set that I saw. We were like in the little side stage. Like when you're up a level. So it's a bird's eye view of that. And like.

1:16:36Chris Black:He's cooking.

1:16:37Lucy Dacus:He was born to do it. Yeah, that's true.

1:16:40Chris Black:The craziest thing about Travis Barker is that he has a run club. And he wears vans to run. That's my favorite thing. That's my favorite. Whoa. it's so insane to wear vans to run that I'm like, you're built different, man. You're another, no,

1:16:53Jason Stewart:I think it's cool.

1:16:54Lucy Dacus:Absolutely.

1:16:54Chris Black:What do you think's going on with everybody bringing out someone to do a song? Like that's something that basically like every show you go to now that happens. And if it doesn't happen, I feel like there's a wall street journal story about it this week, actually. But I feel like sometimes people are like disappointed if, if like it's a New York or LA show and someone doesn't come out, you know,

1:17:13Lucy Dacus:I hope that's not the case tomorrow.

1:17:17Chris Black:yeah i was gonna say just who do you have lined up this is coming out monday so but you haven't

1:17:21Jason Stewart:created a precedence for it like a role model or uh you know the apple dance yeah i actually i

1:17:27Lucy Dacus:have a duet that this tour i've been asking people like um we played ashville and moses

1:17:33Chris Black:sumney came out oh not that bitch i'm sure he said oh he took his shirt off and sang his ass off no he had a shirt on it wasn't buttons because frankly that's crazy i've never seen

1:17:42Lucy Dacus:him with his shirt on that's crazy he is like truly the most beautiful person to have walked this earth and chiseled that's the thing is you think he'd just be serious but um he's a total

1:17:55Jason Stewart:delight and like true artist and somehow straight he still claims to be i didn't know that

1:18:05Chris Black:you're like if i would have known that i would have asked him to come out what the fuck i would

1:18:10Lucy Dacus:Never ask anyone to come out. No one should come out. Everyone should stay in the closet. On stage. I'm just kidding.

1:18:19Jason Stewart:Enough of us are out.

1:18:21Lucy Dacus:We're good. Stop. Just shut up, dude. Just expressly. I'm kidding. I'm making a joke. Of course.

1:18:28Chris Black:You got the song with our boy, Hozier.

1:18:30Lucy Dacus:Yeah. Is he your boy, too? Are you boys with everyone?

1:18:34Chris Black:We're actually friends with Moses. Hozier, no. but Hozier was a kind of classic episode of How Long Gone because we leaked his song. And it was an accident. And then the record label. On purpose? No, and then the record label after like a half hour was like, actually, fuck it. It's like working. So you guys, it's fine.

1:18:54Jason Stewart:Okay. Yeah, it became, it's by far our biggest episode, most downloads of all time. Because at the end, his new song at the time, they sent me his whole record and I just chose a song to put on the outro and it happened to be his next big single and the label's like, take it down, take it down. And then 30 minutes later, they're like, actually it's blowing up on TikTok. Let's just let it ride. And then it became a huge thing. But he's a sweet guy. Like really charming, really nice. Just a really good guy.

1:19:23Lucy Dacus:He's another one.

1:19:24Chris Black:Did you know him or did you just reach out?

1:19:26Lucy Dacus:I knew him. He came and sang. I guess you asked, why is everyone having a guest? I would say because it's fun. Yeah. and because music is really fun to do and it's also a jolt like when you're doing your own um i'm scared whenever i'm singing on someone else's set but that also like that fear is very important because if you don't do anything risky like the time will fly but like you just lose track of your whole life you know um but he's saying with us with boy genius in boston and then um we just like kept in touch texting and i wrote the song not originally as a duet and i was like the meaning of this will be so much better if two people are walking away from a relationship with love in their hearts but still know it's wrong like that it's more prescriptive if one person said that's

1:20:19Jason Stewart:my shit girl let me get the split deal let's lock this up let's lock this in yes have my people call

1:20:26Chris Black:your people send me the track i absolutely okay i like it look i love it i just think it's a it's

1:20:31Lucy Dacus:a funny i'm also always really impressed it is a thing isn't it i wonder if they're i think that probably like most things are people who come to it genuinely and there's people who come to it

1:20:42Chris Black:listen genuinely well my dream my dream of being role models sally for the night has not been

1:20:47Lucy Dacus:achieved yet but i think you just put it out there i think it's all rooted in tiktok i think it's all

1:20:52Chris Black:clip culture it's my yeah it's no i think it's about like getting a clip for sure but i think it's also like you said lucy it's like fun for the musicians you know because it's like this is

1:21:01Lucy Dacus:cool yeah i i find it just extremely fun but you saying that like clip culture like it is it's interesting that people treat a tour like a tv show like since it's being filmed you know usually the show is exactly the same every night because it's new to the people who are watching it whereas now it's like oh no new plot point like yeah maybe people are needing something new in the next episode i don't know if i like that but it would make sense to me no i mean it makes your

1:21:34Jason Stewart:job a lot harder i mean like sabrina carpenter she has to change her lyrics for like the one song to be about every city every time she has to do a new slutty dance every city she has to new wear a new you can't repeat outfits you know it's a whole thing yeah patriarchy strikes again but i think i think it is like people are talking about clip clip culture and and podcasts about how people feel like i don't need to listen to a whole hour-long podcast i saw the clip on instagram and i feel like that i'm satiated for that i don't need to go see camila cabello because i've seen her show you know night after night on twitter or whatever and that's that's bad for sales it is bad

1:22:16Chris Black:for sales i can tell it's fun i guess i'm always just really impressed when someone is like i learned this song yesterday or today two hours ago yeah and now i'm gonna go out in front of x thousands of people and just absolutely fucking destroy it yeah i'm always just like this is i i just not in my turn to be earnest i'm just always so impressed by that that it like I can't believe people are capable because I'm not. It's really hard to wrap my head around it.

1:22:46Lucy Dacus:Those same people would be like, I can't off the cuff have a conversation and interview people. To each their own.

1:22:54Chris Black:Sure. We appreciate that charity from you. I don't think this podcast has saved anyone's life. We all have our own.

1:23:03Lucy Dacus:You've probably made people feel that lonely.

1:23:05Chris Black:We all have different brands of autism. You know what I mean? I think it's probably true. I don't think there's any How Long Gone tattoos out there. If there are, please do not reveal them. Do not reveal them?

1:23:17Lucy Dacus:I'm good.

1:23:18Chris Black:I just think that would be really... Imagine somebody getting a... I mean, there's probably a Joe Rogan tattoo for sure. Somewhere. Thousands. Somewhere. There's got to be.

1:23:27Jason Stewart:If you get a How Long Gone tattoo, I'll give you a free sticker.

1:23:30Chris Black:I bet there's a Terry Gross tattoo too. Just on the converse, just to show both sides.

1:23:35Jason Stewart:Just this American Life knuckle tattoo.

1:23:37Chris Black:There's definitely a This American Life tattoo somewhere out there.

1:23:40Lucy Dacus:I would get a Bob Boylan tattoo. NPR music, Bob Boylan.

1:23:43Chris Black:You got to, look, we talked about this controversial, I don't, the tiny desk, they're letting anybody go up there. You know what I mean? It's starting to get, I get the press releases, and I get the press releases, and I'm like, who the fuck is this? It's like every 10th one, I know the artist, you know?

1:23:58Lucy Dacus:Yeah. They're doing that on purpose, I think. I think they're legitimately saying no to people that you think would be an obvious yes. I think it's, whatever they're doing, it's unfair.

1:24:07Chris Black:Oh, I see. I mean, that does make sense.

1:24:10Lucy Dacus:It's tiny dust.

1:24:12Chris Black:It ain't tiny dust.

1:24:12Jason Stewart:You don't think it's because we're in a never-ending content cycle and we ran out of the right bands to do this years ago?

1:24:18Lucy Dacus:No. Okay. I'm just saying no. I believe you.

1:24:24Chris Black:I think it's big enough where, at this point, people probably watch it. There's enough people to watch it no matter who's on it.

1:24:33Lucy Dacus:I think I'm going to guess. I'm not affiliated to them at all. I'm guessing they don't just want to be a part of people's regular album cycle. I think they still want it to be a place where people are discovered.

1:24:45Chris Black:I'm trying to think of the best one because it hasn't been good in a long time. I'm trying to think of the best one.

1:24:50Lucy Dacus:Bad Bunny.

1:24:51Chris Black:Bad Bunny?

1:24:52Lucy Dacus:Of the recent ones, the Bad Bunny Tiny Desk made me love music. I was like, I need to -

1:25:00Chris Black:Say more, Queen. That's nice to hear because Bad Bunny does the opposite for me. So I want to know why I don't get it at all.

1:25:05Lucy Dacus:You should watch the Tiny Desk. That's why I challenge you to watch this.

1:25:12Chris Black:You sound like a preacher now.

1:25:13Jason Stewart:Do you like the music of Bad Bunny? Do you like the music of Bad Bunny?

1:25:17Lucy Dacus:Yes, I do. I like Bad Bunny.

1:25:20Chris Black:So you're saying you're driving to the reservoir on your Range Rover listening to Bad Bunny?

1:25:24Lucy Dacus:I am not doing that, but I'm in my kitchen.

1:25:29Chris Black:Okay, so I'm saying you listen to Bad Bunny. You listen to it for the musical.

1:25:34Lucy Dacus:It's so fun.

1:25:34Jason Stewart:So you're in the kitchen. You got your hair tied up. you're cooking the plantains and you're you got bad hey siri play bad bunny on my sonos

1:25:41Lucy Dacus:i'm definitely not using a little fucking accent like that but little accent you gotta you gotta roll off that it's hard to talk about bad bunny and not talk

1:25:52Jason Stewart:like bad bunny it's just one of my issues that i'm dealing with okay well i will challenge you

1:25:57Chris Black:again challenge accepted you make me a better person lucy i'll try to i'll try to watch if i

1:26:04Lucy Dacus:can make it through i'm i'm trying it's amazing like it's just so i guess like there's i don't speak spanish so it also puts me in a different when i've listened to music where i am not understanding the lyrics like i'm just paying attention to the music more and like his band seeing them like shredders so like effort they're shredders but with such ease and like i'm like nobody here has anxiety like every person i'm looking at we're just up here doing our thing

1:26:34Chris Black:taken an ssri like this is right gorgeous like this just feel it just feels like um what do you like about bad bunny no one in his band is on prozac it's unbelievable i've never seen anything

1:26:46Jason Stewart:like it everyone came out of the womb just in the pocket yeah i mean who knows i don't know them but that performance i was like like everyone here is happy i mean i think the goal i mean looking

1:26:59Chris Black:making it look effortless and fun is obviously the coolest thing you can do as a musician that's what that's what you want out of anyone that's when you play tiny desk and tell me it's not cool

1:27:09Jason Stewart:like you're on tour in between philly and dc and you gotta do hey we gotta stop everything we have to go record and learn practice how to do all these songs in a new way and then go in a hot studio and an NPR office. It's a situation that's not fun and exciting.

1:27:23Lucy Dacus:People are having their lunch. Boy Genius, our NPR tiny desk, we flew from New York in the morning on a layover, a two-stop layover, did the tiny desk, and then went back to the airport and flew to, I think, Toronto. Again, had to rearrange all the music.

1:27:40Chris Black:That's some SNL. Did you do SNL?

1:27:42Lucy Dacus:Yes, we did.

1:27:44Chris Black:I've heard these great stories about how they keep you on the hook and then they're like, all right. And they tell you when you get it and you basically have to reroute your entire tour to make it work. Like last minute.

1:27:55Lucy Dacus:Yeah, it's very, very last minute and they expect you to have like production ready. Luckily, we did.

1:28:01Chris Black:Oh, like you have to show up ready to rock.

1:28:03Lucy Dacus:You have to and have an idea that you've already been like a few steps into executing when it comes to production.

1:28:10Chris Black:Hey, just so you know, if you might get this, so go ahead and start ideating on what the vibe and look of the stage is going to be. And we'll let you know.

1:28:19Jason Stewart:It's very IRS energy. I don't know how much money do you owe us.

1:28:23Chris Black:Do you think though, I mean, I wonder if, I still think it can move the needle to some extent, but as a musician, it's also just sort of like a rite of passage. It's important. They know you gotta do it. It would be for me.

1:28:32Lucy Dacus:Yeah. I think like I didn't, I don't know. I've been, it's been, I have zero goals, which has really worked out for me because a lot of cool stuff has happened. And I'm kind of superstitious that if I had a goal, I would put all my energy into that instead of whatever else is cool yeah so it wasn't a goal but doing it I was like I see why this is so important to people it's so like it's a machine like the way that they execute it I was super impressed with everyone like it felt like tech week I don't know if you've ever done theater but it felt like permanent tech week

1:29:08Chris Black:hey first of all you know you know we haven't done theater don't say that hey I'm just some people have done theater some people have you're right point counterpoint point counter you know

1:29:17Lucy Dacus:you were a youth sometimes sometimes uh you're made to i mean the the christian theater that's true there's a crossover there you could have been in peter pan all right definitely all right

1:29:29Chris Black:they're telling us they're telling us you got to go we could do this all day thank you lucy

1:29:33Lucy Dacus:okay well bye guys thank you thank you for podcasting with us we had a fun time talking

1:29:39Jason Stewart:And thank you for taking the time. And thank you for buying Chris's book.

1:29:43Lucy Dacus:Thank you. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, we didn't even talk about that. It's awesome.

1:29:46Chris Black:Yeah, thank you. That's amazing. What a small world. What a small world. Cool. Adios. Bye.

1:29:53Lucy Dacus:Bye.

1:30:09Lucy Dacus:But it was an honest accident.

1:30:39Chris Black:by Stephen Adler-Gierkus. Get tickets at DogDayAfternoonBroadway.com