In short
The hosts riff on New York nightlife shifting toward intellectual events (philosophy clubs, lectures at bars, board game nights), then debate Interpol opening for Sombre and the optics of legacy acts playing to younger fanbases. They also recap a Paul Smith event at the “pink wall,” a travel mishap involving a dead rental car battery, and a long conversation with guest Jeremy O. Harris about his career and experiences, including time in jail in Japan and how he worked on HBO’s Euphoria.
Guest backgrounds
Jeremy O. Harris is a long-time friend of the hosts and a former Broadway figure known for earning little money on Broadway. He has since written/co-written major projects, including a new film he co-wrote with Charlie XCX. He has also been incarcerated.
Key claims
The “intellectual nightlife” trend is real but the platform already exists (LinkedIn). Interpol’s opening slot is likely a business opportunity despite fan backlash. In Japanese jail, schedules were structured and writing was allowed; he describes a cellmate dynamic and a misunderstanding about another inmate’s alleged offense.
Notable examples
The “pink wall” Paul Smith selfies; the Range Rover Sport rental battery failure; Jeremy’s Euphoria producer-credit explanation; a jail story involving a cellmate (Tomo) learning English and another inmate (Ruki) who later revealed he was a top karate competitor.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOMorning Mishaps and Car Troubles
0:46 to 2:44
Chris discusses his hangover and issues with a rental car.
“So you left energized instead of depleted.”
Shifting Nightlife Trends in NYC
2:45 to 3:52
Discussion on a tweet about nightlife in NYC and its evolution.
“In a New York way, it actually brought me home.”
Critique of New Social Activities
3:53 to 6:25
Hosts critique modern social activities like philosophy clubs and lectures.
“But I'm just saying, what is a philosophy club?”
Interpol and the Changing Music Scene
6:26 to 8:42
Discussion about Interpol opening for a younger artist and reactions to it.
“little too close but i don't know like maybe it was the bag that good is it a humiliation ritual or do they just not really give a fuck?”
Paul Smith Event Recap
8:43 to 11:15
Hosts recount their experiences at a Paul Smith event and the unique atmosphere.
“And I wasn't expecting people to be – our private access to the pink wall was – more exciting to our friends than I thought it would be.”
Dining at Canter's Deli
11:16 to 13:40
Discussion on their dining experience at Canter's, comparing Jewish delis.
Polish Language and Accents Discussion
14:47 to 16:45
The hosts discuss the complexities of Polish accents and cultural stereotypes.
“For whatever reason, I never understood why they always were dubbed a dumb people.”
Scheduling Challenges and Industry Insights
16:45 to 18:05
The hosts share insights about busy schedules in the entertainment industry.
“You know, when Bill Simmons calls, that's when we get kicked out.”
Debate on Standing Desks and Work Habits
20:48 to 22:16
The hosts debate the effectiveness of standing desks and personal work habits.
“I think I probably should, but I just, I wouldn't work.”
Jail Experience and Reading Habits
22:16 to 24:17
Jeremy shares his jail experience and discusses reading habits.
“Actually, you know, this is a story I haven't told because I wrote it as a really good essay and I was like, I should save this.”
Show all 33 chapters
Literacy, Reading, and Media Consumption
24:17 to 28:00
A discussion on the nature of reading versus listening and media consumption.
“The artwork is coming in through your eyes or the artwork is coming in through ears.”
Polarizing Figures in Media
28:00 to 29:22
A discussion about the public's polarized reactions to figures like Lena Dunham and Sam Levinson.
Art and Influence in Directing
29:22 to 30:47
Exploring the role of influence in directing and the appropriateness of homage in art.
“Like most directors, like name, name a director who's giving you an original image, like I will wait.”
Experience in the HBO System
30:47 to 32:45
An insider's perspective on navigating the HBO system as a new television writer.
“One of the things my Japanese detective was really excited by was the fact that I had a producer credit on Euphoria.”
Lena Dunham's Impact on Television
32:45 to 34:03
A look at how Lena Dunham's work influenced the current television landscape.
“because like the HBO system is very weird.”
Life in Jail: Cultural Exchanges
34:03 to 35:58
Sharing experiences and cultural exchanges while in jail, highlighting language barriers and friendships.
Judgments and Misunderstandings
35:58 to 38:24
Discussion around assumptions and judgments made about new cellmates in jail.
“And so it was just me and him for like a couple days.”
A Confession: The Impact of Work Stress
38:24 to 41:14
An emotional revelation from a new cellmate about the circumstances leading to his arrest.
“You had Arvon send over some baby feet for this man.”
Reflections on Jail Experiences
43:32 to 45:25
Jeremy shares his reflections on the nuances of jail time in Japan.
“Well, so in my mind, there's like there were a lot of ways he could have hit his daughter, right?”
Lawyer Experience and Costs
45:25 to 47:17
Discussion on the challenges and costs associated with hiring a lawyer in Japan.
“I was about to say, they have jail there, I'm sure.”
Weight Loss and Mental Games in Jail
47:17 to 49:38
Jeremy discusses weight loss and psychological games he played while incarcerated.
Reconnecting with Social Media
49:38 to 51:09
Jeremy describes his experiences and feelings about social media after jail.
Discussion on Performative Males
51:09 to 55:58
Exploration of the concept of performative males in society and relationships.
“It's like, if I don't know enough memes, if I'm not listening to the kids, then I can't write, really.”
Morning Pilates: A Straight vs. Gay Debate
56:01 to 57:29
Discover the humorous perspectives on morning Pilates and its cultural implications.
The Movie 'Eruptia' and Creative Freedom
57:30 to 59:19
Learn about the movie 'Eruptia' and the creators' intentions behind it.
Indie Hotel Encounters: Flirting and Observations
59:20 to 1:01:09
Hear funny anecdotes about hotel experiences and unexpected flirtations.
“But I just have never been attracted to that.”
Attraction and Beauty Standards in Hollywood
1:01:10 to 1:02:54
Engage in a lively discussion about beauty standards and notable actors.
“I'm too attracted to still being discovered myself.”
Celebrity Relationships and Social Dynamics
1:02:55 to 1:05:45
Explore the complexities of celebrity relationships and societal expectations.
“Who are these chicks tricking off like that?”
Likes, Social Media, and Class
1:05:46 to 1:10:01
Unpack the implications of social media likes on personal and social class.
“I have a type because I named three of the most gorgeous men in Hollywood and they happen to be Asian.”
Discussing Art and Taste in Media
1:10:01 to 1:11:38
The hosts explore the balance between artistic expression and distasteful content.
“And not because I'm jealous, more so because I'm like, have some class.”
Career Reflections and Creative Paths
1:11:39 to 1:13:12
The conversation shifts to alternative career paths and creative decisions if the podcast didn't succeed.
“He's just kind of like, hey, guys, you're making this thing now.”
Movie Discussions and Cultural Insights
1:13:13 to 1:14:19
The hosts discuss a new movie and share their insights on its appeal and characteristics.
“the movie is out everywhere listen we didn't talk about the movie enough i really don't need to get your take.”
Casting Choices and Character Dynamics
1:14:41 to 1:16:46
The hosts analyze casting choices in the movie and their implications for character relations.
“Then we start opening wide next week and then wider and wider.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:17How long gone? Save it for the podcast. Chris Black coming to you from Los Angeles, California. I'm back in the motherland. Them jeans, what's good?
0:27Jason Stewart:What is good with me? Just a little hungover from yesterday. Had a little Pilates class right before. When you do the hangover Pilates, it can go one of two ways, and it went positive today. It was a transcendent, I'm about to see God sesh. You know what I mean? So you left energized instead of depleted. No, I'm depleted AF, but you might know this from when you're doing some of your moves. You're doing some Romanian deadlift or something like that, and you just hit something in the right way, and maybe you unlock some type of chakra that's been dormant for years in your body, like a volcano. You know what I mean?
1:13Yeah, sure. Yeah, I do know what that means.
1:16Jason Stewart:I erupted today before the pod. I think chill with that. Chill with that. But I had some issues this morning with my rental car. I woke up. I was going to see Hunter. And I'm leaving in plenty of time because I want to hit the treadmill first. And my car is just nothing. The button doesn't unlock. Nothing works. It's staring blankly at me. And I used the valet key to unlock it. Nothing works on the inside. And then I realized that the battery is dead. and that i i assume that that is my fault somehow you could as a gearhead would you say that's that's safe to say i mean what kind of car was it it's a range rover sport oh you're a little whitey uh i'm gonna say it seems like a modern car would sort of have some type of automatic turn off that's what you never know what with these cars that's what i thought but anyway so it really fucked my morning up is all i'm gonna say so there's a good chance that you just unless you like left the car running which i don't think you would do i don't think i'm not even in your most blunted years would you no i never that's what i'm saying i mean i walked i also yeah i don't know i was just it really it wasn't sure you did something wrong and exactly because of you exactly exactly but i because i walked to paul smith last night so i hadn't used the car you know i hadn't used the car in quite a while so but anyway my day's off to a great start um a car didn't start I had to deal with an enterprise rental car tow truck driver who was not happy that I was 10 minutes late, basically, to meet him.
2:51But he was surly. In a New York way, it actually brought me home. It was nice. It was nice to deal with. Okay.
2:56Jason Stewart:To the bosom of Santa Claus, Manhattan. Speaking of Manhattan, there's a tweet that I've seen a lot of from some guy named Andrew Young, Y-E-U-N-G, who's an angel investor in 20-plus companies, so you know he's a winner. You may have seen this. It says, nightlife in New York City is shifting from alcohol-induced socializing to activities that combine connection with intellectual interest. Out, clubbing, drinking games, bars without themes, in, lectures at bars, philosophy clubs, board game nights, reading meetups. Gen Zers are paying$40 a ticket to attend these things. Someone is going to build a massive platform aggregating these activities for the next generation.
3:42Jason, one guess where this guy is from. One guess what city this guy resided in before he moved to New York. San Francisco. Exactly. Okay. I just wanted to make sure.
3:51Jason Stewart:And that platform already exists. It's called LinkedIn, and that's where you go to all these dork loser meetups. But I'm just saying, what is a philosophy club? If you're not in college or high school, what does that mean? Does that mean that young people are getting around and sitting in a circle and just talking about philosophy as an overall subject? We all retire to the salon to exchange ideas with like-minded individuals, maybe have a snifter of chartreuse or something like that and punctuate the evening with a cigar as we discuss the ins and outs of balzac i've had quite enough of this shit i've had quite enough of this shit but i mean it's like i would say out is is saying stuff like that out loud the reading the reading thing at least the reading thing has like a history to it i don't want to go to one and i find it kind of insane but i know that it exists because it's been going on for years and years, especially if you're promoting a book.
4:43That is part of the process. A lecture at a bar, that feels like a guy that's just done too much coke and is talking to me. I don't know what that means. What does that mean?
4:56Jason Stewart:These are things for I don't know how to socialize super well. Of course. Instead of having a conversation with my friends who don't exist, I would rather go to a bar and then have somebody talk at me. sure and it's easier than i'm entertained i tell you what nothing this is just i mean i'm i'm blown away by this but this this tweet is gone this tweet has one million views it's it's some rage bait i would the best response i mean it's just the responses are amazing but i i also well before we talk about our paul smith uh event last night i would like to um just just talk about interpol for a second a great band of our generation a band that we both really like i would say i've seen many times um been on the podcast been on this show paul's been on the podcast a great band new record coming i've heard some of it it's great they are opening for somber and people are are not happy about it um or or they're they're more they're more just you know kind of like can't can't believe you know that that it's happening and this obviously this has happened countless times over the year where you know someone new you know is obviously bigger than someone old and it's hard to wrap our heads around um they seem to only be opening one show yeah no nobody was like what the fuck the breeders are playing before olivia rodrigo at where they normally play football games that's crazy yeah but but interpol's still selling 50 000 yeah interpol's still putting up big numbers so i think everyone was a little upset about i think it's a little too close but i don't know like maybe it was the bag that good is it a humiliation ritual or do they just not really give a fuck?
6:35I don't know. I don't think it's the bag. I don't think it's the bag. I don't think it's humiliation. I think it's the thing that we talked about with, this is obviously less so because of the size, but a Zach Bryan situation where it's like, the somber fans do not know who Interpol is because they are so young. So it's an opportunity to get paid very well and also introduce yourself to a very devoted audience that you might not get in front of otherwise. Optically, it looks crazy. we no one no one can deny that yeah but but do you because people we've talked to other people
7:07Jason Stewart:before who have been in this situation and we're always you know saying like you know yes you get paid a lot of money and it's easy you just go out there and you open for taylor swift or you open for sabrina or whatever it is and yeah it's a bunch of people staring at you you know pissed off that you're not taylor swift and every single time they're like no the fans they learn all of our songs because there's such a great community but but that doesn't happen at every show that that's those are more few and far between i think it's more common where you know are are these 13 year old girls going to really be into interpoles antics i think it really does depend on the fan base i think some of the fan bases really do be like that i mean every it does depend but but is the somber fan base one of those or is it going to be one of those groups where they go and they put on diapers and they chain themselves to the rail and work on their knitting projects during the opening bands until he goes on.
8:02Jason Stewart:Well, that's definitely happening no matter what. That's happening no matter what. It just depends on how many of those people. But I just want to say, Interpol, stay strong. Look, it's a decision I may not make, but I understand why you're doing it. And when I saw that, I was stunned because I thought it was the whole tour. One show, it could be filling in a gap. You know what I mean? The way the tour poster was lined out, it looked like they were direct support for the whole run. Yeah, it did. It was the size of the font. You know how that goes. Whoever at Live Nation put that deal together, come on the pod.
8:35Jason Stewart:I think you might be a little busy right now, though. Anybody from Live Nation, just holler at me. I'd love to talk. Yeah, so we had our party at Paul Smith last night. We took over the pink wall, Jason. And I wasn't expecting people to be – our private access to the pink wall was – more exciting to our friends than I thought it would be. And I thought that was quite funny. Yeah, I was feeling a little perverse. It was feeling like when they put Madison Beer inside the glass cage and people, you know, being in such a public sort of crazy TikTok-y, Instagrammable, you know, the seventh wonder of the world, the pink selfie wall that has been, you know, thousands of people a day go and take their pics in front of it.
9:19Jason Stewart:And most people like us, you know, even though we like the Paul Smith clothing company and when you go inside the store it's a beautiful store but it can be a cringy you know place to hang out outside when you're there and it's locked in you feel like you're really able to enjoy that without the shame of uh somebody driving by and thinking that you're taking a you know you're doing one of your cat's eye choreos in front of the wall with your friends from nursing school oh that's exactly what's happening It was like we lock ourselves in the room and we're going to, you know, like the Ortolong, that bird that you have to eat with the towel over your head so God doesn't see you.
9:57Jason Stewart:You know, like you get to do something nasty and wrong. You know, it's like a glory hole, but with British menswear. I saw some selfies being taken, though. You know what I mean? I saw people getting their little shit. Went and wrong. Yeah, I don't. It would be weird if I didn't flick up. I don't blame them at all. I don't blame them at all. You know, that I don't blame them for. a couple of them i think tim brought a little little couple bounces and he brought a couple outfit changes and things he had a he had a second ad with him and i was like it seems overload but i have to say so tim tim our dear friend tim showed up in a in a t-shirt and and jeans and he just eating mcdonald's and we were just you know we were joking about that he looked you know he looked crazy and and also a a large coca-cola and a cig and then uh chase from the paul smith team just went to the back and got him a jacket and put it on him and it looked great it looked great because he's sample size and I was like wow this is the service this is what I would love to be a guy who shows up somewhere looking confused and and some guy goes into the back and grabs me a blazer that fits me perfectly and puts it on my body while I drink a 40 ounce coke at 30 years old it's a it's it's honestly it was on the service was unmatched I was I was stunned yeah I'm trying to think of you know like a young ashton kuchar just the you know his the driver drops him off in front of the party and he doesn't know where you know is that where it is you know up and down north and south and somebody's like oh my god you're too hot to not be wearing a blazer right now for the carpet let's get because you were like somebody get this guy a coat and he was like i'll do it he's like brb like and i was like do you want to tell him what size he's like i know that's where you get the big bucks mama i already know what size sweetheart yeah it was um but i had very good time and i was i was pretty i had a gnarly travel day but i i felt pretty good the whole time i have to say you pushed it through man yeah we had a great talk with delaney row she shared some great stories about a coachella black car drive home that ended up costing a little bit more than she would have bargained for and i did a great dj set flawless mixing as always shout out to our whole paul smith family i did i did not see the twist coming on the on the car story i did not see the i did not see that price increase coming uh the way that it yeah the way that did i guess the severity of it was jarring to to someone like me yeah i mean it seemed like a good deal until it's not but we've all been there right luckily she can afford it especially after last night where did you go after it was a classic we went to canter's oh wow okay you so you what did you what do you get at 9 30 p.m on a on a wednesday at canter's turkey reuben onion rings oh it sounds pretty good i've never eaten food there i accept we used to i feel like we used to go there and get cake sometimes we used to go there i mean not defeating the allegations we would go there and get martinis and a piece of coffee cake i'm sorry i didn't mean to bring that up bro yeah but we shot i just incriminated our asses already yeah i i didn't is the food good is the food like pretty good is it one of those things it's like the turkey reuben and onion rings actually good no okay i didn't know if it i didn't know if it was but maybe there's yeah there's probably a cookie i mean it's not bad it's not bad but you know jewish delis in in la you know you got you got a lot of competition there's a hierarchy there's a heart yeah you know canters it's a obviously it's an amazing room the staff will they always have a lot of personality it's cool being in a giant restaurant from the 60s that's open 24 hours a day somehow but uh yeah there's i would rank them on the bottom end of the list in terms of flavor yeah but one's on fairfax one's on fairfax and the rest are you know in santa monica that's right yeah you got we got location matters i'm going to brent's deli or something in canoga park i've never heard of canoga park so i'm not going there either i'm not exactly sure what that is it's a nice place to live our guest today is running a few minutes late um but that's no surprise to us He's so busy, Jason.
13:57You know what I mean? He's so busy. He's just packed it in. And Jeremy O 'Harris is a friend of ours for years and years. He's been on this podcast. He was one of our early, early guests on the podcast where he famously broke down how little money you make on Broadway. Something I think about to this day. I mean, that's why I got out of it. Since then, he's done a million things. He's gone to jail. But he's got this new movie that he co-wrote with another friend of the show, Charlie XCX. and several other people. And Jason, I've never said the name of the movie out loud. And it's a Polish word.
14:36And I don't feel comfortable sort of taking a swing on Mike. I don't know if you do, or if you want to wait till Jeremy gets here so that we can have him do his best Polish accent. What is your...
14:50Jason Stewart:I was thinking about it, because Polish has sort of been the punching bag of countries and races of people growing, you know, 80s jokes, a lot of, there was probably entire novels and books written about just Polish jokes. For whatever reason, I never understood why they always were dubbed a dumb people. It seems pretty cool, but, you know, I would say trying to mimic a Polish accent, I don't have a problem with it. You know, it's not, you're not asking me to say, how do you say eruption in Chinese, you know, like that one's a little more treacherous. That's right. Yeah, it's the word for eruption, but in Polish, E-R-U-P, C-G-A.
15:30Jason Stewart:Things get tricky with the C-G-A. I'm going to guess, or sorry, C-J-A. So, Irupska.
15:40Honestly, that's not, I don't know the answer, but I don't think that was bad. If that, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know if it's right, but it felt right. I mean, look, we can go to the source. It's fine. I'm sure he'll say it properly. he's had to say it over and over for the last three days because this thing's coming out oh yeah
15:55Jason Stewart:i i want to ask him because i was studying the word and i know that it's just the polish spelling of of the word eruption but also i feel like it was chosen because it's sort of giving you sexia when i look at it with my eyes personally we you know we don't we don't talk about you sexually on this podcast you know that we can't no uh-uh uh-uh choreo is beyond exactly when when you lead with choreo you know what that means you know what that means look that's not every case okay fair enough all right let's uh let's get our busy boy on the line and uh and catch up for for uh old time's sake jason he's he's late to the early time that he suggested how's that work no to to be fair and this is this is how it goes sometimes this podcast has changed times four times three in the last day but it's been within an interesting 30 minute increment so it's it's because so the schedule is packed sometimes even when it's someone we're friends with you know we're getting wedged in you know what i'm saying which is fine i know how i know i know we do 12 20 12 25 is not looking ideal right now yeah we got we got we got the today show we got access hollywood we got entertainment tonight you know it did mtv news 120 minutes it doesn't you know there's no getting us getting us in there is is they're doing us a favor and i'm i'm happy to be here fish shop all the shops we're going to we're going to all the shops we got to see every table blue table right we got I see Evan Ross Katz on Netflix.
17:19Pete Davidson's texting. It's a nonstop. You know, when Bill Simmons calls, that's when we get kicked out. But I don't think Bill. I wonder if Jeremy. Do you think Jeremy's on Bill's radar?
17:28Jason Stewart:No. Yeah, I think. Yeah, Jeremy. I think he's going to do a live rendition of Slave Play on Minecraft tonight. Actually, him and Travis Scott. They're going to raid. Just a promotion for them. It is Charlie's British Vogue cover that looked beautiful. I really loved it. That's nice. even though it's promo for her new album it does seem well timed for this film which i i'm sure everyone's very happy about similar to the when you're always ready you never have to get ready when you're always doing things you always have things to promote exactly so you never have to like worry about how it's all going to slot in the slot slotting the slot is slotted all right let's uh let's give let's give big jeremy a call this episode of how long gone is brought to you by better help financial stress am i right uh it affects far more than our bank accounts it can take a serious toll on our mental health and our relationships the 88 of americans feeling some form of financial stress at the start of 2026 money worries often bring anxiety sleep disruption even depression and are one of the leading sources of conflict for couples oh hell no this month we want to normalize the emotional weight of financial stress and remind people that struggling with money doesn't mean they failed.
18:40It means they spend too much on Mr. Porter. Sometimes it's just about accessing the right kind of support.
18:46Jason Stewart:It's true. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people jump up and down on the trampoline for their cortisol spikes when they could just be talking to somebody about their financial issues. And then you just feel all that drainage go through your body. Start at the inside and work your way out with over 30 ,000 therapists serving over 6 million people globally so when life feels overwhelming therapy can help sign up and get 10 off at betterhelp.com slash how long that is better h-e-l-p as in please pay my invoice.com slash how long this episode of how long gone is brought to you by revolve man jason let me tell you who the revolve man is lay it on me brother think of it as the place guys who care about how they look go to shop revolve man is stocked with elevated essentials and trend forward styles from brands like polo by ralph lauren a favorite here at how long gone solomon don't let me catch you on the trails fear of god essentials jerry we saw you last night at the show and more uh it's not fast fashion and it's not stuffy it's the sweet spot between looking intentional and not looking like you tried too hard new arrivals drop twice a week with free two-day shipping and next day options plus returns are genuinely easy yeah super easy and it's good they have a nice little collection You can just get your little basic things here and there, your little polo cap for summer.
20:04Jason Stewart:Or, you know, you want to get a complicated Bodie piece. It's all there. And also plenty of great home goods, all your candles, lotions, your mail-in-and-gets, cannabis, conditioner, the list goes on. So whether it's a big night out, a wedding, a trip, or you just need something last minute that actually works with you and your body, Revolve, man, always has it. Go to revolve.com slash how long to shop and use code how long for 15 % off your order. That seems pretty easy. Free two-day shipping as well. Easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That's revolve.com slash how long and use code how long for 15 % off your entire order.
20:44Jason Stewart:Offer ends soon. Do not sleep on it. You do a standing desk at 6 '7"? Yeah. Could I get any more straight, right? Do gay guys do standing desk? No, I don't standing desk. I think I probably should, but I just, I wouldn't work. I would just be like, okay, I'm going to walk away from this thing now. Well, here's what I do, Jay. I record standing, but I like to edit seated. And I'll kind of mix and match with my editing. You know what I mean? And I record sober, but I edit, you know what I'm saying, blazed out. You know about drug use. I don't, actually. They dropped the charges. I don't know if you know that.
21:21Yeah, no, we don't know that. We don't have the internet. we haven't been seeing this for the last two weeks on vanity fair.com and other important outlets it's very funny you know like you know people people like thought i was down for the count you know i saw people saying all sorts of crazy things i saw a meme of myself in a japanese prison where i like like a prison shower looking scared like someone had made it on ai dasha made that damn and then then there were like 10 japanese guys behind me leeringly and i was like first of all i'm six five second of all i wish like like not that like run a j train on me exactly i don't think that like i don't think prison rape is something to laugh about i think that me personally yeah it's very horny for 23 days and i do wish i i will say that the japanese your your your cellmates don't seem like the most threatening they're pretty non-threatening people as a culture even even the ones that are in jail it's a cultural difference well actually actually Actually, you know, this is a story I haven't told because I wrote it as a really good essay and I was like, I should save this.
22:24But I do think I can tell you guys about this story because it's fun and no one really listens to your podcast. So it's exactly it's perfect. Well, actually, the audience for your podcast doesn't read, I think. It's going to be one of those episodes. I mean, I just do you think you have a literate crowd or are they all listening to do a leap? No, I think it's more. Why not both? I hope it's 60 % literate, 40 % Dua Lipa.
22:51Jason Stewart:Okay. Jeremy, I think our crowd is sort of a combination of those two options. They listen to their articles now, myself included. I want to be clear. I do not do that. Chris does not. So I have Speechify. I take all my cool articles, my New Yorkers, whatever, load them up, and then I go about my day. I walk the dog. I do the dishes. I make the bed, whatever. And then I have Gwyneth Paltrow's AI voice reading every story to me. Is it actually Gwyneth? Yeah. You can pick like hundreds of, you know, Snoop Dogg one day, Gwyneth next day. But how do you pick somebody other than Gwyneth, you know? I would love Gwyneth.
23:25I mean, I love Gwyneth. He's one of my favorite people in the world. I did tell someone very recently. And it's rude because I believe that people with dyslexia and all other types of learning disabilities should be supported. But I do think it's unfair that people count audiobooks as reading books. Thank you, Kang. Thank you. It's different. It's different. It's just like a different act, right? Like if you are like the act of actively reading means that you're like doing a thing that involves like this motion. This like this, like you're not a nerd. You can be a nerd in listening. Let me put it.
24:02Let me put it in a way that you might understand. Let me put it in a way you're saying. Jerking off ain't having sex. You know what I'm saying? Oh, that's, you know, that's a good way to put it. You can get to the same result, but it ain't the same.
24:12Jason Stewart:No, no, no. That's not true. It's the difference is eyes and ears, right? It's just all it is. The artwork is coming in through your eyes or the artwork is coming in through ears. And you're also engaged when you're reading a book. It's physical. Kindle is different. Yeah, it's physical. Yeah. Kindle is a great device because of travel. It really is amazing in that sense. Yeah, but when you say people count it as reading a book as if there are like standings where we all keep track of this. Okay, now we've gamified everything in our life. Don't pretend like we have it. people are like yo i'm on movie 45 of the week on letterbox and it's like okay free to life like how many are you actually watching go change your cat litter box bro not your letterbox and people are i don't know the app they're doing it with books on but they're doing it with books they're like being like yo like look how many books i read this month 25 you know who does it a lot ludwig oh call him out say his name ludwig hurtado you know jeremy jeremy it's interesting you're saying this because i believe that i saw an article literally on vandyfair.com where you listed the 23 books that you read while you were in jail so that's why he wants credit because oh i was in jail and of course i would read if i was in jail but i've i have i've i got freedom i have a park freedom i got freedom i got it's hard for people to sit in a chair and read a book and have their glass of water next to it and put the phone down so would you say that reading i mean sorry listening to a book is at least better than not absorbing it at all it's it's something i will say that yes yes it's better than just walking around like empty head like you know definitely vibeless you know it's better than walking around listening to but i do think that like it becomes harder to differentiate between like if you're if you're listening to your podcast all day then going and listening to gwyneth paltrow read your book then also watching 5 ,000 videos on your Instagram about like people yelling the news at you.
26:09I just don't know that your synapses are moving right. Yeah. Cause you're saying there's not, cause there's not enough, there's not enough differentiation between those things. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's the, I think there's probably some truth to that for sure. I mean, I think when a book is good, there's nothing better, but when you, I can't, I can't trudge through one anymore. I don't, I can't, if I'm reading for pleasure, I'm not going to force myself to finish something or read something I don't want to read.
26:33Jason Stewart:I think that comes with age, right? Because there's so many books out there and so few years left. What's the last book you quit? What did I quit? Do I want to name? I'm probably not going to name that. Name it. What book did you quit? No, I'm trying to think. Was it fame stick? It was fame stick, wasn't it? No, fame stick. I'm devouring. I literally have it with me. That's a perfect example of a Chris, but it's got everything. It's got sex. it's got gossip it's got celebrities that are unnamed but you can guess you know that's that like that's it's a lawyer's dream too don't even have to name you don't have to name anybody we can all figure it out i'll say about the book i love lena i think she's the greatest writer of our time i am like did you need a new house because i'm like like you she was in the clear everyone's she's fine and her book is all about like guys being in the public eye sucks and she's like actually let's get back in the middle of that when you put it when you put it that way You're making a very, very good.
27:28Jason Stewart:Being in the public eye is awful. Anyway, let's do, call her daddy tomorrow. And then after that, we'll do Z-Way. I say that with every bit of love in the world for a woman who has been so, like, A, she's a collaborator. B, she's been such an inspiration of mine. I wouldn't be writing the mess I write if it wasn't for her. But it was a thing where I was like, girl, I don't think this is good for you. It's like watching an addict go back to the sauce. you know you're like yeah but part of what makes lena part of what makes lena lena and lana lana is they like a little mess they can't help themselves exactly and that's why that's what we love about it because most people are afraid to get into the mess it's just in it's it truly amazing to be i don't it's the polar the polarization like how polarizing she is still when it's clearly that good whether you like what she's saying or not you know what i mean i i'm i'm surprised by that but that's the picture i don't want to bring this up but it is the thing i keep thinking about this week because they both re-entered the news cycle in a major way but i'm like who is hated more for no reason by the internet lena or sam because i'm just like why like sam levinson can literally shoot 65 millimeter best show on on hbo that weekend everyone's obviously watching it like and like maybe watching it with one hand because they seem to like think it's the most sexual thing they've ever seen even if it's not hey hey whoa whoa whoa hey whoa whoa but it's crazy that everyone like is like like for those people could like cough and they're like wow like the fucking gall of them to cough in the middle of a room no that's true sam levinson is just is hated because people think he sexualizes women too much that's the only thing that's not the only reason he's hated but what what else is there i've never watched euphoria i honestly think that a lot of the hate is like completely based on i whatever i'm gonna get in trouble cut this actually i can't talk about it okay well we're gonna cut it because you keep dinging yeah turn your ding off i'm gonna turn it off um how do i do this um yeah it's just i don't know man it's really you think he's being you think he's being you think he's being unfairly maligned i just think he's being overly maligned critique the man critique all the art but i'm just like you guys are all watching it and pretending like he like ruined your childhood by making a show that you consumed aggressively for two seasons right yeah yeah yeah like it's just like i don't know like even in the second season when it was the most watched show on hbo people were like i hate this it's a worst thing ever give me the next episode and that's just like not how i behave around things i hate and the same is true with lena people are like lena is the worst person that's ever written a thing ever put on girls season three one more time let's run that shit back and you're like what right right right i know what you mean i don't you mean and it's not it's not hate watching because it's there's something there that's really bringing them in because like when we watch and just like that that's hate watching it's taco bell at three in the morning like give me the slop like the main thing that people accuse sam of as well is like being a thief of like like the aesthetics of like other directors or or photographers which I'm like, yeah, guys, that's what being a director is, right?
30:35Like most directors, like name, name a director who's giving you an original image, like I will wait. But like, they all are like collaging a lot of different influences to make something new and special in a different medium, right? Like, if like Tyler Mitchell's photography has inspired how I look at black people, or Gordon Parks imagery has inspired how I look at black people, that's because there's only a specific amount of people who are taking photographs of young black men in a very specific way and it's a it's a a generous thing to homage them in the same way that like it's probably a generous thing to homage like the uh the photographers who have taken a lot of photographs of young women in new and dynamic ways sam has sam has been paying homage to terry richardson in a beautiful way i'll i agree with you i think it's i think he's really celebrating the work of of terry and i think that's why it's so it's resonating with people it's resonating well i I mean, it's popular in Japan.
31:29One of the things my Japanese detective was really excited by was the fact that I had a producer credit on Euphoria. And he was like, wait a second, can you introduce me to Sidney Sweeney? And I said, I'm in jail. And then I was like, I don't think I can do that.
31:48Jason Stewart:When he said Sidney Sweeney, did he, this is an audio podcast, but he held his hands up to his chest kind of like that when he said Sidney Sweeney, right? I don't know if he did all that. But he kept pointing the pictures to her and he said, she's very beautiful. No, very beautiful. And I said, yeah, she's a pretty girl. Yeah, she's a pretty girl. You're like, not my flavor? Yeah, good genes. Can you explain what, okay, producer on Euphoria, what did you actually do? I just, look, I was just another voice around him that like, you know, there was no writer. So we had a lot of people. Oh, I understand.
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32:22So he's just knocking ideas off you. Yeah, trusted readers, right? Like I was a reader and gave thoughts, but like I was not instrumental in that show in any major way. And it was like, if anything, a really generous thing that like helped me onboard being a working television writer when I first started at HBO. because like the HBO system is very weird. And I think that like, you know, there's only a few people who have really made it through that like colossal system and like made it out of the other end without being attached to Game of Thrones in the last decade. And so it's like, it was really great to see like, oh, this is how, this is how like a person can write a thing, but a thing you write won't be on TV unless you have a producer that can explain to each of your execs at HBO and then to the big boss at HBO, like this daring idea is worth the millions of dollars they're going to put into making the one episode.
33:23And not everyone who develops a show at HBO has a producer as good as someone like Kevin Turin. And I think it was really great to watch like how Kevin and then Ashley both worked really well of like translating the universes, like Sam was doing, Sam was creating into a language that like you know franny and casey and everyone at hbo could understand
33:46Jason Stewart:shout out to franny and casey love you guys something about lena's book that was interesting was how it was like yeah you know back then like there weren't a million shows like it was a big fucking deal now there's like a million you know it's it's not that special unfortunately i mean things break through but overall there's a lot of things that aren't that special this is very true sorry i just got off because i wanted to um stand up and change my pants and i was like that would be inappropriate to do um on on video this isn't one of your little stradio lab podcasts all right let's keep it above the line yeah we do things we do things different around here this thing's this thing's above board over here how long on the sausage and the loeves please oh listen this is feeling a little stradio lab to me i mean every time i talk to you guys it feels like it's like you know uh like it's it's it's giving stradio that's all i'll say about that you mean we're like pretty gay is that where you guys are really gay chris is a fashion designer he's damn near like you know calvin klein wait calvin klein's gay hold on he was married to a woman though yeah chris he does have a little bit of an alexander mcqueen a young mcqueen he's got his little flannel buttoned up nice got the head shaved you know start chain smoking your teeth up we're gonna be good chris i i can my teeth are fine but thank you for that feedback that's what's that's what's holding you back jeremy what were you gonna you didn't tell us the story i didn't tell you the story i was just thinking i was like are we gonna go back around to that um so basically the first couple days i was at a cell by myself and then they moved me to a cell with this guy named tomo tomo had been there since july 23rd because he was a loan shark i was obsessed with tomo he was really fun and because he had been there since july 23rd this was he was japanese he was japanese japanese okay since july 23rd he was teaching himself english which was really cool so he had like all these like because literally all you can do is read so this man was a reading machine and he had like a an english to japanese dictionary and all these sort of like child like english books and he and i became really close because i would like i was i was like you're the only person i could talk to here um and so i would help him with english i would show him like a todd hito photo book and ask him to describe the photograph to me this is great And it was really amazing.
36:00And so it was just me and him for like a couple days. And then this guy Ruki comes in. And Ruki was very cool. He was kind of like a rude boy. Very fun. He was arrested for a building violation. I don't really understand what that was. Not very fun. It was kind of confusing. I mean, I looked up what they said he did. And I don't want to put him on blast, but it did seem kind of sketch. Like maybe going up to old people's houses and being like, yo, you need your roof redone. Oh, that's fine.
36:27Jason Stewart:that's basically white collar crime that's rude boy behavior at most yeah yeah yeah but like they were vibey and rookie didn't really speak english but he demanded that i learn japanese if i was going to be teaching english sure it's got to go both ways and what rookie says yeah goes yeah and we had this great little like consortium um they were really chill when it came out that i was gay because my fiance sent me photographs of myself and him and they were like best friend and then there was a picture of us I was like uh I don't know about best friend like I don't actually I don't actually like him that much but we are married it's not that it was really funny because at one point um they were like they were trying to make sense of the fact that I was gay because they're like you so tall like why are you gay um that's too tall to be gay I was literally I went back into my memory and remembered exactly the vernacular they use may ask me um so that was not me doing a racism that was me doing um doing a racism thank you for that so they thought you were a big straight football player basketball player something like that but in fact okay and also because japanese culture is a little gay at one point because we would all like sing songs and like keep yourself interested and who's your favorite american singer and they said at the same time mariah carey and then lady gaga and i was like this is a gay culture and mariah carey your favorites anyway so we had a great little pod it was just the three of us and then the the the place started getting a little overcrowded in general and so they were like oh we have to add a fourth person in here and there had been a guy that had been walking by a lot and we would also always guess like why people were in there and then um sort of like make a assumption about them based on their vibes um because they weren't they the judge the the security people couldn't tell you like the officers wouldn't tell you why someone else was arrested yeah sure you have to ask them yourself yeah so this one guy came in and we had overheard they had overheard something in japanese and they were like oh he and they did a gesture for like upskirting like they're like he hurts oh he hurts girls i was like he upskirted someone they're like yeah bad guy bad guy and then they did like um an image of like cutting off a penis and they're like fuck that guy um i was like yeah that guy sucks and then they were like by the way we're gonna put that guy in your cell he's and the the officer's like he's a really good guy you guys are gonna like them and we had already made this decision that like we had we had decided that he was there for upskirting a girl like he gave skirt upskirting someone had sort of whispered something about that so we were like that's what he did you went with it you went with the narrative yeah and we were like why are you gonna let this guy into our cell like this guy is a fucking freak like he is a sex pest and the guard was like this is jail you know that right these guys are all bad yeah so then he gets put in there and he's like kind of a nerd and he has glasses and like weird skin and and his feet are really calloused and i was just and i noticed that because i was like whoa you have like what what i would think if i just saw these feet in like a mugshot of themselves I'd be like, this is unwed.
39:39You had Arvon send over some baby feet for this man. You're like, we need the next care package.
39:44Jason Stewart:Did you learn how to say ashy in Japanese? Exactly. All right. So his feet were fucked up. Did you find out what he was in for? Did you find out? I'm getting there. I'm getting there. I get it. It's a podcast. It's only 30 minutes or some shit. But like. No, no, no. He's a storyteller. Let's go along. I'm not trying to silence your. After you rub a little CeraVe on this. I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to silence black voices. I'm not trying to silence black voices. I would never do that. you know that i know you weren't trying to do that i'm not this isn't z-way i wasn't gonna try to catch you there also i get it i'll get arrested if i see a white person trying to silence white voices these days so i'm not even fucking around with that we're back baby we're back don't forget it we're back i'm like d-e who never heard of her um anyway i um i so we asked him so what did you do immediately when we asked him he burst into tears and he like says like work stress work stress work stress and we're like work stress and so then he cobbles together in like japan english like some version of a story where he was working and then his little daughter came into his office and was like dad come to dinner he didn't realize who he was and he had just told his wife to stop bothering him and he accidentally hit his daughter and she her nose started bleeding and so then he got arrested but it was an accident and it was work stress and we were all like oh so he did hit a hurt a girl but it wasn't upskirting like maybe he's chill like i don't know i don't want to get it i don't want to get to the weeds here but what's worse hitting your daughter or an upskirt picture it's a great question this episode of how long gone is brought to us by our friends at dart collective um i think we can all agree that wedding music is typically quite lame um cheesy and it doesn't represent the bride and groom's personal music taste luckily dart works with actual musicians and artists, many of whom have their own productive careers or tour in bands you've heard of.
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43:38Well, so in my mind, there's like there were a lot of ways he could have hit his daughter, right? Like if he hit her purposely, it's like that's really different. Of course, of course. But like if you like make a gesture like what's going on and then accidentally hit your daughter, you shouldn't you shouldn't be doing Fed time for that. Yeah, it feels fucked up, but like a human mistake, right? Yeah. The next morning, we were doing our 30 minutes of exercise time. We're hanging out and talking because all we did during exercise time was talk. And then he starts doing like, We're like, what? And he's like, And we're like, what the fuck is going on?
44:14And then he starts kicking the wall with his bare feet really hard. And we're like, what? And then he's kicking really high. And we're like, what the fuck? And then they ask him what he does in Japanese. And then they're like, oh, and I'm like, what? And they're like, oh, and then he leaves. And they're like, yo, Jeremy, he is the number four best karate master in all of Japan. He's supposed to go to the Olympics in 2020. And that's why he's freaking out and crying. And I was like, what? And they're like, yeah. So when he hit his daughter, it wasn't just a hit. It was a shit.
44:46Jason Stewart:It's like when people say like, oh, I can't get in a fight. My hands are deadly weapons. Yes. We were like, oh, this changes everything. And then I was like, wait, but he's saying he can get out before Christmas. Do you think he will? And he says, him out. And this is Ruki. Ruki said, him out before Christmas? No. No one wants bad Santa. Bad Santa? No Christmas. And that is what I think about when I think of the dangerous people in jail. There weren't any, but there was bad Santa, and he could have actually killed me. So to be clear, you never – it doesn't – have you been to jail in the U.S. before?
45:24No. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were a real one. I went to Yale. I'm sorry. A very different type of jail. Oh, I'm sorry. I was about to say, they have jail there, I'm sure. But it's – yeah, I didn't – I just – I can't even imagine how civilized a Japanese jail is. It just – it feels so foreign in that way to me. It was really civilized. I mean, like, you know, my schedule was, like, lovely. It was a really amazing schedule. you know waking up at 7 a.m cleaning out yourself very like particularly with everyone getting an out like a 30 minute pt session coming back at 8 30 you're allowed to write for the rest of the day they give you a pen then then you just sort of hang out you have but you had access for email
46:05Jason Stewart:it's an email no he couldn't even get a phone he couldn't get a phone call chris you can't get a phone call you didn't read the article no i definitely didn't why would i read the article why don't read the article when you're coming here i want to hear it from your ass I don't want to keep repeating the story I'm so overwhelmed I'm done with the story well too late bitch Chris maybe you're so busy maybe you should listen to the article I'll send you a link that'd be super helpful we're just glad you made it out that's really what we care about I was never worried about getting out because I have an enormous amount of good luck on my side and I don't know have you ever been arrested?
46:44I'm sure you have yeah yeah yeah but nothing crazy i mean nothing crazy like graffiti and you know like shit nothing like real it was just this thing where i was like really guys and i think that like the only thing i feel annoyed about is that everyone told me i would be there for the full 23 days and i really believed the lawyer that we had gotten who kept saying like you should be out like tomorrow maybe day after and i kept telling him like my lawyer says i'm out tomorrow and they were like no it's how it works and so then i became like the sort of stereotypical person in the prison movie who's like the naive young boy who does who's never who's never been arrested like at any day now i'm getting out and then you see them 23 days later and they're still there okay final question how much did it cost you to get out nothing well i mean i had a lawyer and so the lawyer was i think overall 5k but the lawyer that's not bad yeah but the lawyer didn't talk to anyone like the lawyer didn't talk to anyone except for me and my family having a lawyer in japanese jail before they press charges is basically like having a carrier pigeon who can tell the people on the outside what was going on with you on the inside but like they're not they don't sit with you when the prosecutor's with you they don't talk to the judge oh interesting okay okay just you're kind of on your own and they're waiting for you to fail like it's like being in a really intense version of like the verbal part of the sat where they're like if you go if you say one word out of line we got you you've self-incriminated so you have to tell the story the exact same for 23 days i'm learning a
48:17Jason Stewart:lot about the the jail system in japan you you mentioned that you lost 10 pounds what part of the body did you see the most um did i see the most weight loss yeah the most transformation on the bod well because i am really lazy i hate working out but and i so i and i don't really maintain any workouts in my head so i but i do like ab workouts because like those are i used to do dance so like for as a child we did ab workouts so i just did all my dance workouts and so my fucking i had cum gutters when i left it was like amazing like that tight stomach okay okay so you went i would love to yeah we you should publish that routine somewhere for all of us that didn't have an eating disorder and a mean instructor the yakuza core blaster 15 minute the martha graham yakuza core blaster i mean like it definitely was a thing and also like i would be in these competitions where my with myself it's all in my journal where i'd be like today if they don't if no if they don't let me out today i won't eat lunch just to show them something like i'm going on a hunger strike for lunch and dinner and it was like why like it was like these weird games i would play that i would like i bet i could go like you know three meals without eating today and like only eat the soup and you're like what interested somehow like pretend you're a survivor you got to keep it yeah i kind of it kind of makes sense to create games as you say we gamify everything so why not jail what was it like opening up instagram for the first time in so many days oh oh my god that was the real issue so the thing i realized while i was inside like i you know i'm a smoker i'm a drinker no you don't say i didn't know that i'm very and i do get anxious sometimes with my fiance's like another cigarette and i'm like am i gonna be one of those people who's addicted forever like am i but then i was there and like i kind of only wanted a cigarette the first three days and i was like i'm over it so did this help you quit smoking no no no no um and then i didn't want to drink the entire time i was there i didn't need that but the only thing i thought about was my phone i would dream about group chats i would like have phantom notification sounds in my head and i was like did you guys hear that and they were like what um and it was like i really everything you hear about an addict like getting clean was how i felt with the like going off my phone and it really felt scary that like the first thing everyone wanted me to do when i got back was see the memes they sent me they're like did you see the thing i sent you on tiktok i'm like haven't opened it so i didn't instagram or tiktok for a week and a half while i was in Japan you haven't got back to me about that funny dog video I sent you three weeks ago just check out well people were like really concerned they were like I sent you news there though and I'm like yeah you could have texted it to me I guess like but they were need to catch up on what's been going on I'm like let me guess Trump made it worse yeah like what am I yeah like if it's that bad I'll see it on my trouble in the Middle East yeah what is the but you're you take long breaks from your phone to work though right in general no because I I tricked myself I'm such an addict I tricked myself into thinking for a long time that my phone was how I worked.
51:24That my phone helped me work, right? It's like, if I don't know enough memes, if I'm not listening to the kids, then I can't write, really. Now I've gotten to a really healthier place with my phone where I'll spend a whole day writing without looking at it. Or pretending like I need to check something on Wikipedia on my phone. Because I don't.
51:44Jason Stewart:It's all that Wikipedia time you're doing on the phone that's rotting your brain, huh? Yeah, because, you know, it always starts with Wikipedia and then you found yourself on like a Twitter thread about like, you know, here are the 14 ways that like like AI data centers are going to like ruin the water in Kentucky. And I'm like, I need to know what's going on in Kentucky. This is important stuff. We got to process all this info ASAP. I'm going to fix this today. If I don't look at this. Going down a deep rabbit hole, a Tina inspired rabbit hole, some could say. i'm also like always looking up videos of clavicular and speaking of tina um and well you know i find my way into like their their weird clip farms i'm obsessed with those clip farms i want to understand how they work do you guys use a clip farm is that how you guys have gained so i would i would i would love to i would love to get i would love to i mean no we can like a friend of ours does a thing and you can just like see how much money you want to pump like i want to do $300 worth of clipping.
52:42Jason Stewart:It's like Facebook ads. It's like Facebook ads in the glory days. I mean, the geese stuff that's going on right now. I love the geese stuff. Also, did you see the tweet that was like, hold on, let me find it. It's so good because I have been telling people for a while. I saw geese play it at SNL. I was like, I like it. I'm feeling it. But when everyone was telling me about geese, I was like, guys, it's giving sketch. Something ain't right about this. You sniffed it out. Sketch. I said that early. Well, because you know, Rostam loves to play like street team for any straight white man. And he was like Cameron Winter.
53:15Thank you. Shout out to Rostam. He's street team for us. And so we got to give him. Street teams are you guys so much. He's always like, well, I don't know. Chris Black told me. And I'm like, I don't care what Chris Black told you is the best coffee in New York. I promise you right now, it's not the best coffee.
53:30Jason Stewart:Rostam might like Cameron for a few different reasons. He thinks Cameron is a very talented musician And I agree But I told him Something gives scam about this And yesterday After the Clip Farm shit dropped He was seen out with Olivia Rodrigo And someone tweeted As a former music club publicist I can tell you These chaotic good guys are in a league of their own Because that is crazy To dead it all by being like Cameron Winters dating Olivia Rodrigo Maybe Guys I think being a stick man is separate i i i i would love for it to be related but i think cam being a stick man and being able to pull one of the greatest pop stars of our time i'm not saying that he was pulling her because of his bosses i'm saying that the the tmz photograph of them going out coincides yes yes yes the narrative is has been rewritten instantaneously yes now everything is all about rodrigo that's that's god's plan that's too good jeremy do you agree agree about the chaotic it good just like a straight white guy who's just like talented charming doesn't brush his teeth you know hasn't washed his sheet bob hair is a mess and you're just like i cannot help myself but i gotta fuck you you know what i mean um i don't get that one so much i like you know the kind of straight guy i'm most into is the kind of straight guy who like gives a little gay like but is like a menace to women but like has so many gay friends around him a menace to women in what way like just spiritually like he's ran through but like seems like a feminist i guess they call them performative males i do i i'm a sucker for a performative male you said perform for me i like him tap dancing i actually i actually grew up a dancer i was in the drama program at Yale so if you don't mind just do one of your five minute I think of the two of you Chris is the more performative male I mean look at how he's sitting right now I'm sitting in a chair he doesn't sit in a chair I sit in a chair he retires to the study you know what I mean I'm retired to my study fuck both of y 'all hater asses god damn it damn this is our podcast you can't talk to me like that are you in LA to promote this movie or are you in New York I am in LA to promote this movie This movie that's kind of about how Women don't like boyfriends Maybe all the girls who are watching it are like Honestly I feel this with my bestie And my boyfriend all the time That they would prefer to spend time with the bestie Yeah yeah yeah No shit but also but sometimes The bestie is a little more than a friend You know what I mean So my summer I watched it this morning actually With a little hangover before my Pilates You're doing morning Pilates Namastizzle and i'm the gay one actually the straightest thing to do is do morning pilates midday pilates gay morning pilates super thotty can you expand on that on the reasoning why is it just a feeling well because morning pilates is more militaristic and i believe joseph pilates was a straight man yeah can you imagine speaking of run through imagine yeah exactly that's performative as a motherfucker that's crazy he said i built a machine for you hoes let's get it tight get it right no your shoulders aren't gonna get big at all baby just the gutters only okay sorry go ahead no but i'm pretty sure that like um the jobless gays amongst us the creative director class only go to midday afternoon like pilates sessions that just feels like the gayer time to go and the morning are for people who are really rise and grind type straight that's that's i think that's probably fair also the like the chicest women are there in the morning right before the the baddies are 7 a.m yeah yeah well i was not there at 7 a.m but you know we're working our way down working our way up but back back to the film oh wait hold on oh yeah i think that joseph lotties was fucking martha graham oh wow yeah that's a real that's real flexibility at work nice pun chris yeah i just looked up martha graham she was born in 1894 goddamn old bitch she's no longer with us of course but wow pilates was born in 1883 the core strength between the two of those people i know unbelievable think about they should have a plank competition before they had sex let's really see who's the top and they do a choreo horizontal choreo okay so the so the film is called you sexia and it's about how lesbians are volcanoes fun to watch but they'll fuck up your day right you call the movie sex you are it was a joke we're joking because we don't know how to say it can you say it eruptia eruptia you know you understand that's hard to pronounce obviously for us uninitiated yeah so the idea of the of the title is that like this is not a capitalist endeavor right we're not trying to be oppenheimer or barbie okay yeah we know okay i know i know yeah thank you're so brave for not trying to we don't want to win awards we don't want to make any money we just want this thing to be out there man in the world i want to make i want to lose 20 grand and sweep it can't no we like we like we we really i think uh what one of the things pete really likes about making movies is the process of making them and like making something that's fun and jangly but i do think that when you put charlie xcx in a movie and again everyone wants people to watch a movie everyone wants to hang out when you put charlie xcx in your indie movie it does feel like you're asking a different thing and i think that like just one way of being like no we're not asking for that is to call it a rupesia maybe in the same way that calling an album brat and not doing a cover art is saying i don't want that and if you get it out of that it's great but i see what you're saying i you were saying so you're hoping this movie succeeds but not too much yeah like you know we still want to be on the side it seems like it's going pretty well i feel like the it seems i've i've seen positive stuff really only from from them oh yeah i mean the rolling stones review was insane in a good way or a bad way oh in a very good way it was so nice they love the movie they talk about the poetry they say charlie is so good in it wait why is someone calling me because you're at a hotel hello yeah i do need service can she come in like an hour thank you they're trying to service me i gotta say this looks like an indie this this looks like an indie budget hotel that's coming from someone who's also an indie budget hotel what hotel are you at oh my god we should hang out where are you you're at the fly-in hotel because you're right next to jones on third which is one of my favorite places i would love to see you at jones on third i i i devour a jones on third and there was the cutest guy at jones on third yesterday that kept looking at me and i was like why are you looking at me do we know each other do you want to get to know me i'm married but you're beautiful and i just realized that like i as much as i tell the world that i think the hottest men are in new york sometimes sometimes the hottest men are in la but what did he look like do you look like an actor or you look like a regular guy who's was he a customer or an employee he was an employee but he did look like a movie star yeah like he looked like a movie star so you're you're saying i can change your life like it's what you're trying i was not saying that i would you're saying put that put down that chinese chicken salad come up you just made your last meatloaf sandwich young man name's jeremy you know what's funny is that i wish that i did have that dog in me that was like Yeah, I will.
1:01:08But I just have never been attracted to that. I'm too attracted to still being discovered myself. That's why I only like men with gray in their beards. Because I can still imagine that I'm the young Anjan. Okay, so you don't want to do the discovered. You want to be discovered. I still want to be discovered all the time.
1:01:25Jason Stewart:You want to be taken as a lover, not to take. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I can admire beauty because I am an asty, you know? I also admire beauty. I say that I love to be surrounded by beauty and people laugh at me, but I'm serious. What's the problem? And he's straight. I'm not saying that has to do with men or women. I'm saying just in life. Which men do you think are the most beautiful? Like of the crop of like young talents that abound constantly, who are the ones you think are the most beautiful? Well, here's the problem, Jeremy. They all have the same bad haircut and it's really causing problems.
1:02:02I have a tough time judging because obviously, you know, Jacob Elordi and Austin Butler and Paul Mescal are all good looking guys, but they all have this stupid haircut. And I'm just like, shave your head. You don't have to do this. You're too good looking. You see that Pedro Almodovar like came for Jacob hardcore today, just off rip, no reason. Just like, this was like, honestly, is he a good actor? I don't know. Is it that hard to speak in a low voice would be sexy in Frankenstein. Also, why is Frankenstein sexy? I don't know. He's giving sex to people without acting. Why is Frankenstein sexy?
1:02:37It was just like a random thing to read today. I was like, why is Almodovar just out in the streets like that? Why not, bro? Pedro had the time. Bring back hating. Bring back. Let it spray. Jacob Elordi is still... He's going to be just fine. He's great. He has made every man think that Bottega will look good on him that that's honestly that's what he should be in japanese jail for because that shit if i pull up with the purse it ain't working for me and if i pull up with the ten thousand dollar purse and it's pink it ain't that's not doing me any favors bro who has the ten thousand dollar pink uh bottega bag who my fiance he was the third person in america to have it damn i think his is more expensive than ten thousand dollars he has the really big one you didn't pay full retail though i didn't buy it did he pay for real retail um his rich friend did period that was a gift it was a gift you're saying peter teal bought your husband a fucking take it back
1:03:34Jason Stewart:for 10 10 bands what kind of friend is this yeah i don't have friends like that which which buy on this guy sam altman sam altman bought your that's crazy bro you should have arvon has two birkins from girlfriends these are girlfriends i tell my fiance all the time he should not be gay. He should be straight. Who are these chicks tricking off like that? Two women bought him a Birkin? Yeah. Two separate women, two separate Birkins. Yes. You must have a dick made out of gold. Jesus Christ. You don't have to do shit. These hoes are taken care of before you. He has a gift of gab, okay? Yeah, so do I.
1:04:08Jason Stewart:I got zero Birkins. I got no Birkins. I'm negative Birkins if I look in my account right now. He's going to be so mad that I put it out there because now they're going to be like, oh, someone else already got you one? So he's not going to be... thank you so much for this brick and i'll put him with the other ones anyway what are you up to tonight well no what do you what do you which one of those guys do you like the most of the hot male actor the big five i would say that uh charles melton is probably my number one crush oh yeah charles melton's good looking i think like the most good looking of the young actors um manny is the hottest of the actors above that manny who lee daniel not lee daniel sorry lee pace well yeah Lee actually you know what I'm not I don't want to get in trouble but Lee Pace is up there yeah Lee because Lee Pace could the reason he's so beloved is because he could you can't tell really yeah you know what I mean yeah you can't tell that he's gay he was he look when you physically look at him he looks like he's steal your chick or you and that is a powerful Chris said unclockable talent unclockable because he's like because he's from Texas it's an there's an innate there's sort of an innate just regular guy about him Is that what you feel about Connor's story?
1:05:20He's also from Texas. No, Connor's story does nothing for me. Nah, bro. I'm all set on all that heated rivalry shit. Actually, Connor's story is much hotter than the other one, though. Much hotter. I'm sorry. I think that Hudson has something really special in episode five.
1:05:36Jason Stewart:Well, you have a type. You said Hudson. We got Manny. You have Wajian King. Hudson's got a Wajian bubble butt. That's what you like. Yeah, you got a Wajian bubble butt king. I have a type because I named three of the most gorgeous men in Hollywood and they happen to be Asian. Yes. Yes. But Chris Black named three white men and everyone's just like, whatever, par for the course. No, no, no. Fair, fair, fair. You're right. I'm diverse. My tastes are diverse and I get it. DEI, diversity are bad things to say. But I also said Michael B. Jordan. I also would have said Edgar Ramirez or Danny Ramirez.
1:06:10I keep it mixed up. I don't know who those are. Some of those guys are. But I... You don't know who Danny Ramirez is? I don't think so. He dates Jessica Alba. Oh, that's... I mean, that doesn't... What is he in, though? What movie... He's in Top Gun. He's in, like, fucking Last of Us. He's about to be in the Todd Haynes movie. Let me say something to you, Jeremy. He's back blown out by Pedro Pascal. Let me... Yeah, yeah. He... Let me say something to you, Jeremy. I appreciate all that about his career, but you did lead with he's dating Jessica Alba. So let's keep it a buck. I led with what I thought you would understand.
1:06:46Oh, now you're pandering to straight men. Okay, you're pandering to straight men. I know that y 'all sit and covet the hot women of Hollywood and wonder who's getting it when you can't, right? So you guys constantly have a list who's dating who. We do have a list. I know how to talk to straight men. I do pay attention. Jessica Alba is a beloved. She's beloved by all men. That's not my flavor, but she is beloved. She's aged like a fine wine. Is your flavor just white women? Yeah. Whoa. Oh, now we can just say it. That's what's happening. I mean, no, I mean, I'm not saying. We can just say it. No, look, I can appreciate when Jason talks about cat's eye or one of whatever he's talking about.
1:07:26Jason Stewart:But, you know, it's not. There's a difference between a flavor and a hard line preference. You know what I mean? Yeah. Whatever just came out of your mouth felt very Georgian in a scary way. Georgian. Georgian my state not the country yes yes yes I just think that it's I'm just able to be honest about what I like and I think some people have to mask it in some ways and I just think why not Jason Jason and I are different Jason likes only he likes the Benetton nature of Katzai or the youth of Katzai I think he likes the Asian members of Katzai neither guys to all of this there's only one asian i'm joking i guess i guess agent too i'm joking i think the overarching point maybe me more diverse with my interests than chris that's all you know got it got it um i think you guys should not ever talk about cat's eye on this podcast that i try not to i try not that's an arrestable offense from the two because they suck or because they're no they're good actually they're phenomenal but they're children they're all children or i i actually don't even i don't know anything about them how old are they the oldest 20s the oldest one was just 22 oh i didn't realize they were i had no idea honestly i think one of them just turned 18 and they posted a photograph on the cat's eye main page of her standing next to photo of two balloons that said one and eight which i felt felt scary i said maybe not that that'll get you maybe not that one little upskirt guy was into that one he showed you that one said jeremy's son look everyone who every guy who likes that photo belongs in a japanese jail yeah put them on a list that's what's crazy is that there are guys out there that couldn't resist liking that photo even though they know we can see it that's that's that's the question i have about something like sydney sweeney like okay like i because i make fun of my friends when i see them like have a like under just like a complete obvious like those guys who are like trying to tell a story but they have like like either a stuffed pair of underwear or a full erection craziest thing happened to me at the store today anyway i'm eight inches soft but like some but i see someone
1:09:44but you see someone throw a like at that and you're like okay but you know other people can see that you like this like why would you not just look and keep it moving we talk about this all the time dude this is this is a real straight man problem because it's like okay well then when
1:09:56Jason Stewart:When you say that to your husband, what does he say? He doesn't like those kinds of things. He knows I don't like that. And not because I'm jealous, more so because I'm like, have some class. Like, you know, throw the like it Charles Melton on the cover of ID Magazine doing the sort of like 1950s pinup reimagination. Like, that's chic. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you can get away with this if it's the right thing. If it's Cindy Sweeney fucking yabbo's out and it's a magazine, it's fine. So don't don't like the diaper one. But then, you know, we can double tap when Petra Collins does the tasteful cat's eye spread.
1:10:32Jason Stewart:Then it's exactly. That's honestly if it's if it's art, you can like it. If it's not art, you got to be careful. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just rough. It's really rough out here. And I just like I see too many people being too casual with the likes. And I actually think that some people should be disincentivized from behaving like that on me. Right. Like like my friend said that he's not my friend. I just that was weird. like parasocial um I think maybe I was thinking that me and my friend talked about this guy but there's a guy who make who's a really good chef he like actually he's like obviously a very talented chef yeah Pierce Abernathy he's been on this podcast this guy said okay and he'll like he'll like make food and it should just be that but then he'll like start spitting on it and like putting his fingers in it all erotic it's like so insane and I know what you're talking about and I I think people came at him and were like, babe, this is too much.
1:11:27We actually did the wrong thing by liking this for so long because we thought it was a bit, but it lasted too long. I bet his bank account says different. But now he's just doing normal food content. He's just kind of like, hey, guys, you're making this thing now. His lasagna likes have gone down considerably once he stopped fucking it with his fist. But we're doing what we can over here on the timeline.
1:11:50Jason Stewart:So he horned it down. Do you think if this podcast didn't work out, you guys would be doing things like that? Would you be in your Joe boxers or Calvin? I don't know what kind of underwear you wear. Just sort of doing jumping jacks on main for gay guys in Iowa? Depends on the check, but they wouldn't be able to pay me enough with my followers. Jeremy, I could be a barista. You know what I mean? There's other shit I could do. I'm not above. I have this reputation. I'll fucking sweep the floor before I'm doing jumping jacks for fucking. No, I ain't doing all that. I'll do a lot of shit. You're not doing OnlyFans for flower arrangements.
1:12:28Well, you've seen that whole. There was that whole storyline about the two cousins on Vanderpump Rules that do OnlyFans and like flirt with each other. It's a strange. Honestly, if I had a twin brother, I would be doing that all the time. I'm sorry. I'm just like, that is such easy money. Gay people are so stupid. You don't even have to like have sex. you could just be like hey it's me and my twin and you just like i only have to kiss my brother we don't even it's so life is good baby he doesn't get hard he's my brother he doesn't get hard at all he's my brother that'd be super weird if that happened i just think here is fun and i think that would be some really good theater slash performance art but again it's someone who doesn't have a brother yeah sure it's it's easier for you to say coming from a brotherless place yeah all right so the movie is out everywhere listen we didn't talk about the movie enough i really don't need to get your take.
1:13:18Well, I got to watch it. You didn't watch it? No. You don't read and you don't watch. No, I read. Jason doesn't read. All he does is watch college football. You watch college football? No, Jason watches stuff I don't. This movie, though, I will say, as a person who doesn't watch movies, I saw the trailer for this in a theater because I was watching the Marc Jacobs documentary, and I was like, this movie looks great. I'm not even that gay. He turned your little straight movie off to put on a gayer movie. Do you think that was my idea to spend a Sunday afternoon at the cinema seeing that, Jeremy?
1:13:52You think it was my wife? Marked by Sophia felt like something you would maybe want to do. I agree. I'm a Sophia apologist. I was disappointed with that. Nothing happened. I didn't love it. Yeah, I had another friend who came back with a really harsh review of that movie. But the movie, this trailer was there, and I was like, wow, this looks awesome. This looks like a regular movie where stuff happens, and it's just good. You know what I mean? It's not a three-hour thing with machines. And it's 71 minutes. It is 71 minutes. Everyone needs to go out and watch this movie. It's a great date night movie.
1:14:22You can take your boyfriend. You can take your girlfriend. You can take your best friend. Y 'all sit, have some drinks. Maybe things get interesting afterwards. You know what I mean? Okay.
1:14:30Jason Stewart:How much you see this movie, you're going to fuck. Yeah, great. That's a good selling point. Okay. The movie's out everywhere today or tomorrow or Friday. Yeah. Yeah. It's out. It was not everywhere. New York and LA today. Then we start opening wide next week and then wider and wider. like never mind that's gonna be bad that was what that was too much that was a really bad like callback to another thing we were talking about and i was like that's horrible you'll eventually have a gaping theatrical release is what you're saying yes really gaping like the lasagna that cedric is and and straight guys this movie is about how awesome volcanoes are there's a lot of dope volcano footage out there a straight guy made the movie straight guy made the yeah Yeah, representation matters.
1:15:12Thank you for bringing that up.
1:15:13Jason Stewart:Do you think, I thought it was a little, it took me a minute to get used to Charlie's partner looking too George to me. Yeah, it's a little George coded. I thought that as well. Well, you know what's crazy is that Pete and I weren't thinking about that at all when Will got cast. Will is Pete's like straight guy actor avatar, right? Like if he had a Kirsten Dunst, that's his Kirsten Dunst. and Pete and Will, Pete has hair, but Will happens to be a bald person. And so I do think for the fans, it's a little uncanny valley, but it's not on purpose. No, no, I think I'm sure it made it easier for her to get into character.
1:15:54You know what I mean? Well, I mean, no, I think it's harder because like, I think what she had to pretend like she thought he was swagless. And I think that when you see her with George. Yeah, but at least this guy's not asking her to come see him DJ at 2 a.m. at fucking public records.
1:16:08Jason Stewart:You know what I mean? Yeah, but George doesn't sit down when he pees in front of her. You know what I mean? Are you sure about that? I am not sure about that. Yeah, what's the over-under percentage of pees that you do seated versus standing? I don't pee sitting down. Hell yeah, brother. Hell yeah. Tell them. You don't do that shit. That's for women, right? No, that's not for women. I don't like sitting down. I'm too tall that my knees start to hurt. They have gramps? All right, shit. We need to get you a toilet XL. Did they have totos in Japanese jail? Not in WGL, but they did have a weirder toilet.
1:16:41We'll talk about that later.
1:16:43Jason Stewart:It has a camera in it. It's really weird. Okay, Jeremy, we love you. Jeremy, yeah, we love you. Thank you for doing this. Love you too. Always a pleasure. Thank you, Seksia, in theaters now. Great little flick. Great little flick. No, thank you. We'll see you soon. Good luck. Thank you.
1:17:10I love you To anywhere we have I love you
From the publisher
Playwright, actor, and screenwriter Jeremy O. Harris returns to the pod to chat about philosophy clubs replacing the club, our Paul Smith event with Delaney Rowe, a late-night meal at Canter’s, whether listening counts as reading, Lena Dunham’s beautiful mess, producing on Euphoria, all the boys he shared a Japanese jail cell with, the Geese conversation, his new film Erupcja with Charli XCX, his fiancé having two Birkins he didn’t pay for, double-tapping on horny chefs, and peeing sitting down.
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