In short
Episode topic: Sam Fragoso (Talk Easy) discusses podcasting craft and audience reception, plus broader takes on algorithm-driven music, AI/optimization culture, wearables/sleep metrics, and media/politics controversies (including a David Mamet interview that went badly).
Guest backgrounds
Sam Fragoso is the host of Talk Easy, known for heavily researched, scripted interviews with public figures. He’s based in New York (recording from a temporary place) and also does video-adjacent formats (How Long Gone Today). He’s described as having previously done high-profile interviews (e.g., Elizabeth Warren) and as a serious audio producer.
Key claims
Podcast audiences are shifting back toward entertainment rather than pure optimization. AI and algorithms reduce nuance by forcing people to “pick a side.” Wearables and sleep scores can negatively affect behavior because metrics vary and people overreact. “Rockignized” recognition happens most in places like bookstores and Whole Foods.
Notable examples
Vegan cream cheese at NYC bagel shops; World Cup ticket hype; UFC banter; Arlo Parks discussion; David Mamet walking out after “free Gaza” remarks; Mamet’s people apologized but didn’t request a takedown.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VODebating Bagel Preferences
0:06 to 0:45
Discussion on bagel culture, toppings, and the NYC bagel experience.
“We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that.”
Debating Bagel Preferences
1:09 to 4:52
Discussion on bagel culture, toppings, and the NYC bagel experience.
“I haven't touched cream cheese in years.”
Pilates and World Cup Talk
4:52 to 6:34
The hosts share personal anecdotes from Pilates class and discuss the World Cup.
“Well, this is just a little Pilates-related aside.”
UFC and Hypothetical Fights
6:34 to 7:40
Hosts discuss UFC events and hypothetical matchups with other podcasters.
“But the instructor, sometimes when you're in a group fitness class and the instructor starts maybe talking about their own personal life, which is something that I would do every five minutes if I ever posted.”
Introducing Sam Fragoso
7:40 to 12:15
The hosts introduce guest Sam Fragoso and discuss his podcast and recent success.
“I need a palate cleanser after the enhanced games.”
Interview with Sam Fragoso
12:15 to 14:00
Sam discusses his podcasting journey and audio quality in podcasting.
The Importance of Audio Quality
14:00 to 14:58
Learn why audio quality matters in podcasting and how it impacts listener experience.
“And people at the time, people were like, why does it sound so good?”
Discussion on Arlo Parks
14:59 to 16:39
Explore the mixed perceptions about the artist Arlo Parks and her music.
“If someone's on a Zoom, it's fine if they're using AirPods, but sometimes you're like, guys, just find a room where you don't hear the lawnmower.”
Cultural Commentary on AI and Music
16:40 to 20:10
Discuss the implications of AI in music creation and the evolving nature of the industry.
“Secret third thing, smart, smart to include that.”
The Changing Landscape of Podcasting
20:11 to 24:38
Understand how the podcasting format and audience expectations are evolving.
“Yeah, you can use AI to make titties bigger.”
Show all 26 chapters
The Role of Wearable Tech in Lifestyle
24:39 to 28:00
Examine how wearable technology influences our health consciousness and daily lives.
“I just think that everybody listens to podcasts or watches things for such different reasons.”
The Modern Athlete's Dilemma
28:00 to 29:28
Exploring the absurdity of fitness tracking in daily life.
“The problem is, I wonder, though, if our today's David Bowies, which obviously is an oxymoron, they're few and far between.”
Cultural Commentary on Social Media
29:28 to 30:46
Discussing the influence of social media personalities and trends.
“I mean, actually, this is a pretty good SNL sketch.”
The Quirks of Journalism
30:46 to 32:48
Understanding the role and style of controversial journalist Taylor Lorenz.
“What does that have to do with anything?”
Personal Experiences with Masks
32:48 to 34:16
Sharing humorous anecdotes about wearing masks in public settings.
“I got off the airplane, then we took public transit because I'm a man of the people.”
Recognition and Fame
34:16 to 36:34
Discussing the nuances of being recognized in public as a podcaster.
“people are staring into your eyes the whole time.”
Interactions with Fans
36:34 to 38:30
Insights into the emotional connections listeners have with podcasters.
“I have not been an NPC since I was 13 or something.”
The David Mamet Encounter
38:30 to 40:46
Recounting a tense interaction with filmmaker David Mamet.
“chris and jason can they get tickets to like you djing at that festival in pasadena that i don't No, they're pretty.”
David Mamet's Controversial Podcast Appearance
42:00 to 45:33
Discussion on David Mamet's appearance on the podcast and the fallout.
“You chase him at the reunion out to his trailer while he's smoking a cigarette.”
Reflections on the Interview Experience
45:34 to 47:07
Exploration of the emotional impact of the interview on both hosts and Mamet.
“You can be mortified and still ask for the takedown.”
The Decline of Alternative Media
47:08 to 51:10
A conversation about the evolution and decline of alternative weekly publications.
“That was sort of like any sort of local interest like we're going to profile the record store owner or whatever.”
The Nature of Political Interviews
51:11 to 53:19
Discussion on the challenges and dynamics of interviewing politicians.
“I mean, I think that the whole critique of our entire business now is like, it's softballs, it's softballs, it's Jake Shane, it's this, it's that.”
Insights on Journalism and Authenticity
53:20 to 56:00
Exploration of authenticity in journalism and the role of personality in interviews.
“I'm surprised you would platform someone like that.”
Filling in for NPR
56:00 to 59:51
A humorous discussion about guest hosting for NPR and the dynamics involved.
“They're like, what if we get Tyler Mitchell to do it instead of Sam just to mix up the flavor?”
Celebrity Height Discourse
59:51 to 1:02:14
A lighthearted conversation about the height of celebrities and the perception of actors.
“Sebastian Stan, I make him look like a shrimp.”
Dining Experiences at Hotels
1:02:14 to 1:05:53
A debate about the quality of food at hotel restaurants, particularly at Chateau Marmont.
“Was there a time where, you know, the quality was good and the public's perception of what good food is and their need to have higher quality food?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Alright, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you?
0:13Jason Stewart:We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.
0:49Jason Stewart:how long gone is here i'm trying to put on a happy face we're gonna have a good podcast today with our fun guest and i'm feeling good because taylor lorenz wines that nyc bagel shops don't use the right vegan cream cheese and wants mom donnie to intervene i hate to side with her but she might have a good point on this not that i'm consuming that much vegan cream cheese but it's something to consider where i think this is a low stakes thing if mom donnie's giving people discounts for the world cup the least he could do is fix the cream cheese oh really i will say we've both i'm sure over the years eaten many many bites of tofutti cream cheese and it does leave a lot to be desired but it might be the easiest thing that's available through cisco or whichever you know whichever service you're using to deliver your supplies at your local bagel ria so it's at your local um jewish panaderia is what you're saying yeah i don't obviously this comes down you know we don't know if taylor is a real uh eater obviously she's a real eater um and my hat's off to her but you know how some people have have celiac disease and some people are gluten-free and some people are dairy intolerant i there i think there's a strong chance that her actual you know deficiency and allergy to dairy is real but it's one of those things like you know new york city bagel shops you want the real nyc bagel experience i want my bagel deria man to say fuck out of here when you ask for cashew cream cheese and also i don't calorically speaking cashews oh look i agree with i see actually i see both sides here it's one of the only things where the vegan version of the real thing has as many calories if not more than the actual version and cream Cheese is already, you know, that's about as fat boy as things can get.
2:43Hella caloric. I haven't touched cream cheese in years. I've been clean for a while. I don't hate it. But remember when I went to that pop-up?
2:49Jason Stewart:I put Greek yogurt on my bagel, of course, unsalted. When I went to pop-up bagels to try it, and they just hand you bagels in a bag with a tub of cream cheese. And I was like, this place is fucking disgusting. Like, get me out of here. Were they small bagels? Was it a rip and dip? It was a rip and dip, but they weren't super Montreal style, which is the only place I've ever ripped and dipped, which is where it's appropriate. it yeah no people seem to like doing the smaller bagels like a bagel bite or a garlic knot size and then you dip it in you know what i want to go to all my new yorkers will know heaven's hot bagel on houston and like ridge street bro they got you know what you get it's hot heaven's hot you go in there you if i'm not feeling if i'm not feeling bougie if i'm not spending 20 on the open face at apollo i'm trying to go to heaven's hot bagel i'm getting two eggs lettuce tomato avocado on an everything bagel, like a sandwich, and then an orange juice, bro.
3:38That's all I need.
3:39Jason Stewart:I was going to make a joke about spending 20 on some face. Open face. Spend 20 on some face. That's a good deal. But as soon as you said the words lettuce and bagel in the same sentence, I said, nah, fam, nah. Okay, bro. Okay. Sorry, Mr. Traditional. I only want just a single swipe of cream cheese and tomato. Seasonal, of course. Bro, no one's eating. No, no, no. a real bag, get a nice sesame bagel, cream cheese, maybe a little fresh cracked pepper. That's it. I hate to say it to you, bro. No soy sauce. I hate to say it to you, but you ain't Jewish and you never lived in New York, so I can't really take, I can't really, I can't listen to you on this one.
4:16Jason Stewart:I'm often confused as a Jew. Most people assume that I am. Most Jewish people hope that I am. I know they hope that so they can marry you. I'm such a heartbreak when I explain to them that I am not. That you're just 10 % Native American. I'm just a long goy. All right, before our guest gets here, we got to talk. North American Longoy. Actually, we should talk to our guest about this. Never mind. I'll save it. Actually, well, we were just talking before. You were talking about World Cup tickets and about Zo having a discount. He's doing something. No, he's doing something with food. I don't pay attention to the World Cup or Zoron if I can.
4:52Jason Stewart:Okay, you get a free pupusa with every. But you're talking about the U.S. Open tickets going through the roof. Well, this is just a little Pilates-related aside. I was up there pumping yesterday, and I guess it's subconsciously a way to shoehorn in. This is out of the 150 classes or so I've taken. This is the first one where I look around, and I was the best person in class yesterday. Hold for applause. Well, I'm not going to. And that's not because I'm an excellent Pilates person. It's because it was the day after Memorial Day hangover, and it was just a bunch of fat moms who were kind of phoning it in.
5:28So you're saying the usual baddies had two hot dogs with relish instead of one, and they weren't able to get the Range Rover over to motivate.
5:35Jason Stewart:It wasn't the ability. It was just sometimes your heart's not in it. So today, hold on. So today, let's be clear, you've goisplained bagels to me, and now you're saying that you're the best at Pilates in your class in Los Angeles, California. I just want to be clear. It was one of those. I just want to be clear what you've been saying today. I like goisplained. I like goisplained. I don't think you're off a bean yet. It's 8.45 in the morning. Well, that was just a stepping stone to get to my anecdote involving World Cup tickets. Yeah, you needed to. I figured we might as well take a couple laps around the lot while we're here.
6:10Jason Stewart:Be ashamed not to. You're a lot lizard in this case. Similar. Yeah, I got my binocs out, scrounging for some talent. But it was not because I'm a better Pilates person than these other people. is just because sometimes Rudy wins the football game. You know what I mean? He's not going to. Yes. It's a one in a lifetime situation. I'm going to celebrate it and we're going to move on. I'm going to get back to work. But the instructor, sometimes when you're in a group fitness class and the instructor starts maybe talking about their own personal life, which is something that I would do every five minutes if I ever posted.
6:44Jason Stewart:It would be a nightmare. That's why you're a podcaster. But just that with the perfect kind of instructor talk, the passive aggression of like my husband um said he really wants to go see the world cup now that's coming to la never watched uh soccer in his life and it's the most expensive ticket in the history of tickets and she's just talking to herself while you know me and 14 armenian women are going and and i just loved it she has to love that she has to get it out somewhere i do like i like that too it doesn't even watch soccer really but just thinks it'd be a good thing to do hey man The amount of fair weather soccer fans, these fake Americans, when the World Cup comes around, it's never ending.
7:27It's never ending. Everybody's faking it out here. Everybody's faking it out here. I mean, what we're not faking about is UFC, baby. At the White House, oh, my God. The squared circle at the White House. I've been texting Dana White all morning asking where my ticket's at. He ain't responding.
7:40Jason Stewart:I need a palate cleanser after the enhanced games. I need to see some people, you know, choke each other out on government lawns. Exactly. because I thought the ballroom would be ready. I was hoping the ballroom would be ready for this and they could just kind of put down some mats, like high school wrestling match style. But unfortunately, it looks like it's two separate things or whatever. Have the bleachers fold down from either side of the wall. Let's just make this multi-use room here at the White House. Got a nice bald eagle mascot come doing somersaults across the floor. That's nice. What a dream.
8:13What a fucking dream.
8:14Jason Stewart:Okay, so you're juiced. Which of the lineups are you the most excited about for UFC 250? Uh, I don't, is we got, we got who we got in it. We got any, is it Ray J versus Stefan Diggs or anything? Or is it like regular shit? Is it regular? Is it like real fighters or is it like, I don't really pay attention to, to UFC. Is it Tony Hinchcliffe and Joe Rogan versus Andrew Schultz and Charlemagne in a tag team event? Cause that, that I would naturally, we would love to tune in for that. Uh, I think it's going to be so much as you, cause they were talking about this on Joe Budden. I would fight another podcaster for far less than a million dollars.
8:48Jason Stewart:Yeah, for sure. okay but when you say far less what's like our guest today our guest today i would beat his ass for 250 i mean something light i beat his ass for 200 a quarter of a million i'm saying like these i would get in the ring with sam so for a little less than at 250 000 just to be clear i call her daddy's off the table i'm not gonna do man on woman stuff but i think i could tell like malcolm glidewell bro i'll suck i'll knock your little ass out bro you crazy i would pay to fucking get in the ring. Then we got to get into like what? Imagine Malcolm getting a clean one and whooping you on the low.
9:24Jason Stewart:I'd have to hang my headphones up. You and Neil Brennan toe to toe two skinny dorks just going at it. Two skinny dorks. I mean yeah the old me yeah but now I'm 10 % more brolic I would easily kick Neil Brennan's ass. No offense. Neil feels like he could get scrappy though. Neil feels like he would do a nut grab. Neil feel is your version of real feel on the weather app where it's like yes he He is 135, 6 '2", but he's got these long fingers and he's got a fighter spirit. He's one of those guys where he's gouging the eye and the ref goes to break it up and he doesn't stop like one of those pit bulls in London.
10:01I don't want to say this, but he's spent a lot of time with people who have fought.
10:07Jason Stewart:We don't know that for sure. David Chappelle is not necessarily in the slums scrapping. He's a young entertainer. entertainer i think dave chapelle and chris rock might have scrapped for stage time at some point backstage at the store threw it threw a jack and coke on each other i say this as a pussy we're talking about this is a bunch of pussies that's why i'm saying that's what i'm saying i think we could get in there i think if we if we keep ourself out of the manosphere side of things and we fight our sort of you know like a what pop cast what the fuck are they gonna do bro i'll take both of them at once i'll take both of them once damn okay i'll take both of them once bro I'll duck.
10:43I'll do the thing where Carmonica goes to punch me. I duck. He hits Joe in the face. Bang, bang. We're done. I'm out. I don't even have to touch. I don't even have to touch. Nymphed alumni,
10:51Jason Stewart:I'll take all three of those bitches all I want. I don't give a fuck. I'll do me and Biz go toe to toe. I'm saying we could also, Jason, if we did a two-man, I could do the thing where I squat behind Coscarelli. You push him over. I think that could really... This is something... He falls right on his keister like an idiot. I think this... I think this is a good idea. I think it's one of our better ideas. All right, let's get Sam on the horn. Yeah, the problem is Ian's listening right now, and he's like, well, so I got 300 ,000 lined up for the gone wars. The gone wars? For the hungry games. All right, our guest today, Sam Fregoso.
11:31You know him from his very popular podcast, Talk Easy, where he does extensive research and puts his hair behind his ears and asks the hard questions. he's like he's signed up he's now he's banging with the obamas over there he's his shit done
11:46Jason Stewart:changed up on us michelle cry on camera like before we used to hang out with sam he would answer our calls he'd answer our texts now now he's kind of he's leaving us on red he's communicating only through uh communications representatives from giant corporations we can't we can't get a one-on-one with this guy but yeah and secret service has been tailing him for a while now it's tough to get in there luckily luckily luckily today we've gotten through all the red tape secret service has given us clearance and sam will be joining us on how long gone for the second time but this like i said it's different this time it's things have changed his pockets a little fatter you know what i'm saying things are looking up for sam and and down for us no well the beauty of sam is because he does these very well scripted well researched interviews with these uh you know luminaries iconoclasts luminaries with these motherfucking with these mf luminaries he so he desires to get into the mud he desires to get on with some chatty lads and you know let his nuts hang he wants to do this this is the you know this is his vacation at work and we make it feel easy and then i guess for us it's another another day you know the opposite of that would be us doing research that's that's yeah i don't need to do all that all right sam all right let's give sam a call
13:06all right two idiots clapping i'm gonna sit here uh sam what's going on bro are you are you in your home studio you've got a nice ceramic mug marin style how you feeling i'm in new york i'm in new york doing it from a from a place i'm staying in oh okay so this is your portable setup
13:20Jason Stewart:doing it from a place i'm staying in love the mystery of that sentence we got it we got to keep the mystery up oh i'm just at a place that i'm staying at a place that i'm staying at it could be an airbnb you bring the whole rig i do that's good can i say i kind of brought it because i knew we had to do this i was like yeah i want to make sure you know i know you guys are big big into audio quality so i just wanted to show up prepared we are not big into audio quality jason is very big into audio quality i only i mean although i say that as a person who listens to a handful of podcasts it actually do sound pretty good i guess now i think about it like i'm not listening to shit that's recorded on voice notes you know i do i do i guess have a taste for the finer thanks oh no i i meant jason when i said we but i just thank you i just wanted to i wanted to lump you in there well i mean i've i've already been there the whole time but it's nice that chris you know with with his time behind the podcasting desk he's learned to appreciate the finer audio file you know frequencies and things like that discerning palate has has become more discerning the first podcast i did with i mean when i did the public announcement with jay Jason, that audio, I mean, my former, we had a podcast and he, I mean, he freaked it like 50 hours in PR level.
14:31And people at the time, people were like, why does it sound so good? I'm like, because there's a guy absolutely killing himself to make it sound like this.
14:37Jason Stewart:It's not like he deserved a Webby that year. Hello. There's his work and they could have got a Peabody sound, sound beds, et cetera. It's not, you can't just buy mics. You know what I mean? Vintage outboard, no rack mounted equalizers. You know, let me just bring that down. Smartless candy. I found this thing on Facebook Marketplace. Got to bump up the lower 6 ,000 dB. How much of an audiophile are you, Sam, or do you not really care? I can't listen to shows. If someone's on a Zoom, it's fine if they're using AirPods, but sometimes you're like, guys, just find a room where you don't hear the lawnmower.
15:15It's like the bare minimum. People are listening to this at work. Sam, you don't know the shit we've dealt with, bro. We've had some, I mean, famously, one of my musicians I love, I mean, I love, remember this Jason, Beth Orton, she was like on a train in France and I was like, it won't work. And we're like, you're in like a hostel in France. Like, of course it doesn't work. Wait, Chris, what did Arlo Parks record on? We've never talked to Arlo Parks. Don't worry about that. Don't you worry about that.
15:44Jason Stewart:Arlo Parks, they may have been on the calendar as a hold, but I think we shut that down. we got a lot of hold sam but some not everything makes it through you know you know how it is i think that day we went to the park instead that's honestly that's not a bad move one of the first episodes i heard was chris going in on arlo parks for like three minutes and i was like this is so much time to spend i don't even remember i don't even remember that but i remember three episodes a week we got a lot of air to fill so let's do 20 on arlo it was an it was a drive-by for sure There was a point where Arlo Parks was in the ether a little too much.
16:20It was a little bit like, what's going on here? You know, I don't say industry plant. I feel like that's unfair to people because Arlo Parks is quite talented. It's just not my flavor. But there was a point where it was like, how are you on everyone's song and also ubiquitous and no one knows. And I couldn't, no one on this podcast could name an Arlo Parks song for sure. Couldn't sing a chorus.
16:38Jason Stewart:I don't know. I can't, if Arlo Parks could be a man or a woman or non-binary, I couldn't tell you. Secret third thing, smart, smart to include that. What do you mean Jason? He's right. What was wrong with that sentence I just said? Please tell me. Technically and politically nothing at all. It was a perfect sentence. It was like Trump. It's a perfect sentence. One of the best sentences from the standpoint of English language. But you're saying I should be able to pick Arlo Parks out of a lineup as a cultural commentator? Yes. Bro, Arlo Parks is a very unisex name. I had no idea that Arlo was a lady.
17:20Jason Stewart:I swear to God, I thought Arlo Parks was a four-piece British band. That doesn't, I mean, it sounds like Maximo Park, Jason, which is from our era, if you remember correctly. Maximo Park, Arctic Monkeys, you know, they're all, it's a four-piece with, you know, some mop-headed lads. I'm going to give it to Jason. That's not unreasonable to think that. No, no, it's not. Heavily influenced by Franz Ferdinand's first and second albums, Arlo's. Underappreciated classics, if you ask me. Alright Sam, so what are you doing in New York, bro? Are you just on sabbatical? No, I'm doing some tapings And also I want to give one shout out I actually like a few Arlo Park songs And I feel like she may hear this And I'm going to feel really guilty She ain't listening to these toxic white boys Talk about music Well, name some of your favorite songs Give me some of that white guilt right now What are some of the favorite tune song names Without looking it up No, I actually have a tight 30 minutes on this If you guys want to kind of dive in you sound like didn't drake say that that you listen to you listen to kendrick music because it's white guilt or something there's something like that something like drake said or white boys listen to your music which is which i said protect our parks i i actually did i haven't heard i'm sure you guys have talked about it but what are you making of the the the whole everything in the algorithm musician wise is fake and the feeds are all like it's the the geese the geese of it all like what what because you guys know way more about that than i know what month is this sam this feels like what we're talking about in feb but we'll we'll go back into the archives i'm out of date i'm out of date we have a different frequency of a release schedule so you know well sam's jason sam's busy getting security clearance for air force one you know what i mean he can't wait in the waters of clip farms that's not really his problem i have been i have been in michelle obama land so i missed all the geese controversy i will say that the geese controversy is a like all things a non-starter you know what i mean i think it's it's literally like people doing business and then regular people finding out about how that business gets done and being mad if that if that makes sense it's like yeah i mean i thought everyone does that everyone does that's what i mean a lot of people do that in some way many people do it i think it's just like the line with ai like everyone has a line and some people are like you're you did it natty and you know my definition of natty is different than others or i use ai to do yeah you know normal helpful things or i use ai to do maybe some more darker sinister things that you know i'm not being forthcoming yeah i think that's the i think the ai of it all has people on their heels at all times looking to react in a more strong way depending on you know because now the line is drawn where it's like hey man it's coming whether you want it or not you better get down or lay down or it's like fuck this i'm on a landline and it's there's no there's sort of the nuance in between, which we of course love to explore here on How Long Gone.
20:09I mean, that's what the whole show is. Is a rare.
20:11Jason Stewart:Yeah, you can use AI to make titties bigger. So also something to consider. 100%. 100%. You know what AI couldn't do? You know what AI couldn't do? Whatever Jason does with that camera on his chest when he shows what he's making. It's real talk though. AI couldn't do that. I am always so impressed by those videos. I'm like, how is he cooking and also not fucking up the camera and it also looks good. I'm just very impressed by the whole operation. Well, if you need any video for your little podcast, Jason's, you know, he could rig you up. Basically, it's just you figure out the rig. Because I'm so tall, you know, they have the headlamp thing, but I've or like the metaglasses, which other people are like, but I'm so tall, I got the metaglasses on.
20:57Jason Stewart:I'm looking down at my souffle. It looks like an ant. It's so far away. So I do the chest strap to get a little closer to it but otherwise once it's locked and loaded i hit record and you know the frame is set you're ready to go yeah i don't have to do anything he was born with that he's what he's saying is he's once again height mogged you and that's the only reason it really works right as well as arm mogged my arms are great and long he has that uncut dog in him i get it yeah yeah he does have that since we last spoke you guys are now doing video podcasts no it's sam we're not doing video podcasts we're doing a program called how long gone today that stands alone that's at a desk and Burbank, much like some of the more famed late night hosts that are failing.
21:37The failing late night hosts. You support all those. You support all those libs.
21:41Jason Stewart:We're showing Stephen Colbert how to do it with three guys instead of 3 ,000 guys. We got three guys meaning me, Jason. There's one guy, three cameras. He hits play and all that shit. We crank it. So you guys are anti-union. Is that what you're saying? Oh, I've been anti-union since the day I was born. That's not a question for me. No, no. I think that Some unions are good. Some unions are bitch ass. Union on La Brea, they actually have a great selection. I don't know if you're into VisVim or not. Also, the union between LGBTQ plus people, I think that's good personally. I think they should be allowed to do that.
22:16Jason Stewart:I don't know how you feel, Sam. Those unions should totally be legal, Sam. Don't even question that. Yeah, and I had tons of questions, so I'm glad you guys are getting out in front of it. I don't, um, I, I, I find that the, yeah, I, I, we, I think the whole point of how long gone, uh, today was to differentiate it. Obviously we would like it to come out more often, but to us, I think having a set and it living that way and looking like that and not being audio first is what makes it different. You did the, was it, um, Bon Iver one. Was that on video? Yeah, we do. Yeah. We just did that. We just did that kind because like he wanted to do it he wanted to do it but i think part of it was also he wasn't going to tour for that record and so i think they were like well shit we better do some fun stuff he was listening to the pod he liked our vibe the label you know threw a little money together he had a local camera guy that was really good and already was friends with him had been to the house before so it was it was kismet if you guys didn't have to pay for it perfect yeah well we got to pay for the other ones i mean it's it's um i think that it's sort of like uh i don't know i i think it's something you got to do but i think for you know you know how it is dude it's the same it's like yeah if you if you do have a chance to take any sort of creative license you know what i mean because it's not like we're setting up two mics in a garage you know what i mean with celsius cans all over the ground then it does give us it it gives it it makes it something different if you choose to make it something different even though it's obviously very very similar sometimes the different thing that we're creating is literal brain rot but you know so be it yeah it's worse it's worse it's way worse i'm not saying it's good i'm just saying that it's different is that is that how you guys see how long gone is it is it brain rot three times a week no just the video just the video the audio is the audio is excellent the video is just because it's like us like we with no notes like chris will write down like here's 10 funny things that happened on twitter this week and we make an hour-long improvised show out of that and then we go back and then the brainwreck part is me adding in, you know, footage of roller coasters and video games.
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24:18Jason Stewart:I've seen that. You know, bum fights and stuff like that. But the audio version of the pod that you're on right now, you know, classic stuff, stuff that gets butts in seats. But the audio podcast, we take a little more seriously and it's something that I'm proud of. I think the quality of our product is high. Yeah, I'm proud of both. I just think it's, I don't know, man. I just think that everybody listens to podcasts or watches things for such different reasons. And I feel like maybe, do you guys feel, do you agree with me? Do you think maybe we're getting back into an entertainment? Like, I feel like for a while it was really about optimization, whether it was listening to the daily so you could leave the house knowing about how bad it is in Iran.
24:59So you could talk about it with your coworkers. Or it was like, I need to listen to Huberman to know my blood, you know, my oxygen levels.
25:07Jason Stewart:I downloaded 37 talking points about my sleep score optimization by listening to this Huberman at 4X. I'm actually listening to my blood panels on as a podcast that they've created for me using AI. We got to stop as a culture with talking about each other's sleep. I do. It's just like sleep is a little bit like dreams. I mean, it really is. I don't need to hear it. When you think about it. No, it's only interesting to you. Nobody gives a fuck about anyone else's sleep. I don't care about your score. I don't care about how you unwind. I mean, more power to you. Do that. I watch Law & Order. Great.
25:43But I just think it's too much.
25:46Jason Stewart:I got an 89 last night. I don't talk about it. Okay? Yeah. Is 89 good? What is it out of? I'll go with 100 is my guess. Well, I'm wondering. I wonder if the - 89 is good. If you touch on the 90s, wow. My question is, are the metrics consistent across different - They are not. my whoop and my fitbit and my apple watch it's three wildly different pieces of info because you because you sort of you have to make up some dumb proprietary thing to like make it worth it to people wait do you have all of those god no bro are you kidding me my shit clean bro you you will never catch me no not you chris i'm talking jason well jason's flirted with a little more than i have he might not want to talk about that during covid i had an apple watch sure best he's ever looked out to be fair so i mean that's that's the that's the shame that's the bummer of it is I was in the best shape of my life.
26:34Jason answered that the way like Governor Shapiro answered when I asked if he had any problems with Fetterman. He was like, sure. Okay, a little. I mean, a little bit. I don't think that those, I think the wearable thing is just another trend a little bit. Like I don't think, I think a lot of people look at the data. I don't know if people are actually crunching the numbers or if they're just like, I have it so it makes me better. If that makes sense. I don't know if they actually understand what they're reading or they're applying it to their sort of day-in, day-out lives. I have no idea.
27:05Jason Stewart:I think it's just part of the same just being glued to the phone for all pieces of information. It's the same as all of your friends who have a kid who go out to dinner and have both of their phones set up on the baby monitors, the doggy cams, the kitten litter cams, the Citizen app, the Nextdoor app. you know you're just glued to it constantly receiving data and monitoring the situation but we've talked about it a lot on the pod before of you know you could wake up after a night of partying and be like damn last night was awesome i'm a fucking legend i'm a beast this is so good let's go get some breakfast burritos and do it all over again my life is a movie and then you look at your phone and you're like my sleep score is 37 oh my god my today's my day is shot it's It can fully affect your life in a negative way.
27:55There's just things I don't need to know. I don't weigh myself either. I don't need to know that. Can you imagine David Bowie checking his sleep score? Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. No, I mean, that's the thing. The problem is, I wonder, though, if our today's David Bowies, which obviously is an oxymoron, they're few and far between.
28:15Jason Stewart:Youngblood, that's about it. Harry Styles probably has a garment on right now because he's a runner. You know what I mean? Oh, guys, I'm so sorry. I do have to go. I'm so sorry. Would David Bowie still be alive if he had a whoop strap? Something to think about. The best, Sam, is where... You live in LA. The best is when you see the guys strapped up. They got the whoop on one arm and either an aura ring or another strap on the other arm. They're going into battle and it's like, dude, you work in sales. What is this for? You work in sales and you are ripped. I get it. Your Rivian is charged but like i don't know if we need that much my wife said she's gonna leave me if i don't get my resting heart rate down yeah like i don't know at a certain point i'm like i don't know i'm not sure who this is for it's for people who are like i have so little going on in my life that i'm gonna like compete with the three guys i play golf with about like who got the most sleep last night where it used to be like sam when you go out with your boys it's like all right who's gonna put down a 12 or tonight you know now it's like who ran a faster mile check it out boys yeah nine Nine hours.
29:20Jason Stewart:Nine hours last night. I'm fucking drunk. You're like, let me get 12 highlights. I'll be here for the next couple hours. And those guys are doing something a little different. I mean, actually, this is a pretty good SNL sketch. Like, the boys get together, and they're like, God damn, we're well-rested. My Lord. Can you believe the fucking work? Heart rate check? Yeah, I thought so. The work-life balance. My God. That's what is interesting, though. The work-life balance thing is still a conversation, but the optimization thing is also a conversation. And to me, those two things are completely at odds with each other, based on what you're trying to achieve, what the goal is, you know?
29:57But I know you don't have a work-life balance. You know what I mean? You're kind of on it.
30:00Jason Stewart:Everything is copy-ass. Well, now that you went corporate, I bet that Slack is booming. You got the Slack. I know, I'm not on the Slack. The higher ground Slack. Show me about your B2B tools. I got nothing to do with Slack. You ain't all Slack. You ain't got anybody. How many text message groups are you in, not for like your little fantasy leagues, but like real shit. I mean, there's probably more for fantasy basketball leagues. I knew it. I knew it. Let's talk hoops a little bit then. Let's, let's please not. Heating up from downtown. I mean, I try to talk about things that Chris will maybe like.
30:30Well, you brought it, you brought up Arlo parks and basketball series zero for two. Arlo parks was a perfect bit. So that was just, that's going to stay in. I hope.
30:38Jason Stewart:Have you seen, have you seen any hadids on a yacht? We can talk about that for a while, Sam. He doesn't even know who they are, Jason. No, that's no, he would, Sam would never, he's like yeah i love anwar's stuff no idea um but honestly listening to how long gone every time i listen to him like wow like just i'm learning a lot you guys you guys are my entry point into things i would never know about okay the prime example our dear friend andrews steel while you were saying that sent me a text message he's at a deli somewhere in new york i'm assuming and he sent me a picture of cream cheese and the cream cheese is covered in pistachio and little crispy bits it's dubai cream cheese we're getting jason i'm gonna tell andrews to drop a pen i'm getting you a little pint of that for next time i see you okay wait i actually do have a question i wait can i ask you guys um who is taylor lorenz we can't i'm sorry we can't get into this we well because i don't really understand i i don't know what's going on she's a journalist she's a journalist she's a journalist and it leans in the tech sector that's all i can say but i've seen her tweets and they they uh something is amiss i think well there's a new there's a new thing where she demanded mom donnie make them use better vegan cream cheese at deli so that came up earlier and i don't i don't know if she was joking it feels like that has to be a joke she likes to grab headlines she's she's a a talented journalist in the tech space but she has a style of attention grabbing that is let me tell you what if if she could if she could if she could kill us and get away with it she would she really does not like us at all and rightfully so rightfully so right what did you do i we just make fun of people who wear masks
32:24like like not not not during the height i mean now people who have to wear masks to stay alive hate it when you make fun of that it's a bit that she doesn't find funny i wore a mask for the first time in like two years last week were you redoing the coffee table what's up nah i was really sick and I was like in New York. What does that have to do with anything? I was just like, I don't want to cough on anything. I feel bad. I was like not in good shape, but I had to take... Were you on the airplane? I got off the airplane, then we took public transit because I'm a man of the people. Okay, Obama.
32:54We know the higher ground doesn't pay that well. I know you take the train, but I'm just saying that you...
32:58Jason Stewart:Okay, were you walking around Manhattan outdoors with a mask on or was it all... Because I think if you're sick on a plane, put a mask on, I don't give a shit. I think that's good. Well, no, the airplane has the best filtration. Don't Malcolm Gladwell us with that info, Sam. Come on. I used to work for him. They got to put an AK-47 in my head for me to put a mask on again. I swear to God. It's got to be Chernobyl. It's got to be Chernobyl for me to put a mask on. I just don't like it, man. I just really don't like it. I didn't like it. I didn't like it at all. Dude, you were wearing it. Hold on.
33:30You had a mask on on the train. Follow-up question. Did you have a backpack with you? i had a backpack on me yeah okay that's that's tough bro what why is it why is this that combo together it's a volatile fusion i look like a dork i mean there's no question about that
33:48Jason Stewart:that guy looks like he probably like one of those sam for grosso type type podcasters you're like oh shit that is him wow yeah and and miss he's wearing his radiotopia back that's literally how like tucker carlson mispronounces my last name too like that exactly like that I'm like his nightmare. Do you get rockignized in New York more than L.A. when you're out mask-free? It'd be amazing if I actually only get recognized when I wear a mask. Well, your podcast is so fucking serious, people are staring into your eyes the whole time. You know what I mean? They're trying to find out about how... You look naked without your mask on.
34:26It's like, who are you? So you're saying, where do you get recognized the most besides the public library? Jason, is Chris saying recognized in a weird way?
34:34Jason Stewart:Okay, recognized is a fun term where it's like a rock star gets recognized in public. Yeah, this is something I actually learned from our guest today, Kevin Morby and Katie say it. But Jason, actually, I ran to Sabrina Blondshell at the Erewhon. Sounds like one of the suicide girls, doesn't it? But no. She's like, I bet you get recognized here a lot. and I was like, wow, I've never, I haven't heard, she was using it because she knew I knew what it meant in this way that was like a nice hat tip. So rockignized means when you're at a bookstore and some, I mean, I'm not gonna say overweight, but you know, a bigger.
35:17Jason Stewart:I love that the BMI needs to come into play during this. I'm sorry, I'll stop, I'll stop. You Fitbit whoosh ass over here. Get the fuck out of here. For example, when I'm, I live in LA, but whenever I'm in, you know, Lower East Side of New York or so, I mean, I'm bopping around all over, bi-coastal, all the travel vibes only. But, you know, if I'm in Lower Manhattan, you know, Soho, Lower East Side, whatever, every couple blocks, yo, TJ, fan of the pop, boom, boom, boom. Every couple blocks is generous. No, it's not. Wow. It's generous. I was thinking about this before. Can I ask, how long are these blocks?
35:58Great question. You're like, are these avenues?
36:01Jason Stewart:Some blocks are longer than others, I will say. He's never lived in New York, Sam, so he doesn't understand the difference between avenues and blocks. But I have the reason for this, and it will make sense to you. Oh, okay. Let's get there. Let's get there. Oh, there's a point to this. Okay, yeah. Because I'm not only – a big part of it is the massive success of our podcast, but it is my literal height where truly everyone subconsciously or not, they are an audience member of me. Just me walking around in public is a sight to behold. It really is. I have not been an NPC since I was 13 or something.
36:42I walk into a party. I immediately know Jason's there. Well, that's true. And I want to be very clear. It has nothing to do with this podcast. But I want to say, so Sam, where do you get recognized the most? Whole Foods? That term is so horrible. Yeah, that's why we use it, because it's funny. Where do you get recognized?
36:59Jason Stewart:Well, where do you get pod-ignized? I was thinking about the fact that Whole Foods, yeah, actually, Whole Foods is a good one. I know. Bookstores. All joking aside, yes, Whole Foods is the correct one. Okay, look, every couple Whole Foods, every couple blocks, yeah. What about the airport? I have got an airport. But, you know, I was thinking when people come up because, like you said, the show can be serious. I think it's actually been a little looser in the last year, hopefully. Your show, you mean? Yeah. I think with the video, it's been more fun to fuck around. And I've really enjoyed that.
37:33But when people come up, they do have usually a pretty emotional response to it. Really? They're usually talking about something that they were going through when they heard something. and I have loved almost every, no, actually in a really good way. Or people are just like, you did a great job asking Elizabeth Warren hard questions. I forget that you get that. I forget you get like, yeah, you really stuck it to her. People love David Mamet walking out. People love telling me about how funny that was when he compared me to Hitler three times. Sorry, I'm team Mamet, but we'll get into that later.
38:09I don't think you're Hitler.
38:10Jason Stewart:Your Patti Smith episode got me through my chemo. yeah your patty smith episode made her books good jason can i say you look great in recovery jason you look fantastic namaste to you brother i have i everyone that comes up is really nice i feel like the guys that i feel like it's dudes coming up to you asking if like they can model for j crew chris and jason can they get tickets to like you djing at that festival in pasadena that i don't No, they're pretty. No, people are not. People are very nice. Now, there was a point where it was like not, where it was a little more like, I want to like, whoa, you want to neg me, you know, kind of thing.
38:49Now, it's not like that at all. I do remember I talked to Alex the first time I met your wife, Chris. And she, we talked about podcast stuff for some reason. and she was like the the interactions that she watches you have with dudes on the street in new york just horrifying business and ladies she killed yeah and ladies it's true she was not making me dying it was so fucking fun i i know this story i know this story because you guys were talking about it for a while and then of course she didn't lead with this and then you were like wait what what podcast is it actually after 30 minutes and you're like i know him she tell me and i don't you know i don't know who anyone is with so i never know anything like
39:31Jason Stewart:alex was even like i'm not gonna say they're overweight but uh and you still didn't you still couldn't put it together he's a he's a bigger guy i would say he's a bigger guy he's on the bigger side well i think because that chris and i are are spewing some strongly worded opinions often negative about people and things where they're personally offended and hurt by we're more likely to get some of that interaction, whereas you and Gwyneth, you know, talking about her childhood, it's going to bring in less ire in your direction. Not a lot of ire. I did watch, yeah, no. I did see the Mamet stuff, and I have a personal history with him because he, when I wore glasses, he was the only other person who wore the same glasses I did, which he still wears.
40:20They're from Cutler and Gross through Yellow. So I was a little pissed off, you know what I mean? Because that's kind of my thing.
40:26Jason Stewart:For younger listeners, David Mamet, father of Zosia Mamet from HBO's Girls. Carry on, Chris. Is the... If that's the intro for people, I'm going to just like jump off the bridge. That's so... I mean, honestly, for David Mamet, you know nobody listens to this shit is going to the theater. I don't think so. Sam, Chris, and Jason, we're of an age now to where, you know, there are millions and millions of young people who do not know who David Mamet, playwright, is. who love HBO's Girls. Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, Coffees for Closers. No, they might know that, but they might not know who he is. We are the last generation of people who knows the lineage of Coffees for Closers, you know, by and large.
41:11Jason Stewart:And just barely, because that movie came out in, what, 87? Yeah. That was before you were born, right, Sam? A little bit. Yeah, exactly. Okay. 82, huh. Okay. Here's 82. No, I'm 82, I'm saying, so I was only five years old. So when you guys start tangling, and you don't break. You stand firm. You're ten toes down. You're fucking, you know what I'm saying? You're doing your little thing, squared up to mem it. And is this the first time anyone's ever walked out on you? Yeah. Okay. And he walked out in a manner that was like, from what I remember, you stayed at the table. He storms off. Are there producers and shit that are like, yo, chill, chill, chill?
41:54or does he just barrel through like he's a linebacker? Our producer, Caroline Reebok, did go and try to say, you know. This sounds like a reality show. I love it. You chase him at the reunion out to his trailer while he's smoking a cigarette.
42:06Jason Stewart:When he said free Gaza, he didn't mean it, David, okay? Just we wanted to get you back in and see if we can. No, I mean, you're not that far off. She said, she was like, you know he's not an anti-Semite. Okay, so the issue was he thought you were being anti-Semitic. he believed something that was incorrect yeah which wouldn't sure which wouldn't be the first time but how did you how were you able because i don't i'm not really a calm cat you know what i mean if mammon if mammon wants to square up i'm saying we got the cameras wrong i'll give you a two-piece right here and we'll all make some money on these ratings send your ass to tel aviv yeah exactly i'll send you yeah exactly i mean the number the numbers would be unbelievable but the number but i'm a but my follow-up question even though you didn't get there but the numbers are pretty good they were good but you know he said he said you look like someone who's never been hit before you do i mean i agree with him on that and i and i said to him you look like the person who wants to deliver the first blow and i'm hard and then he said well now you're taking it seriously and i was like wait a minute wait it's like i being gaslit by david mamet a word I hate and a thing that I think is silly is so weird, but I'm glad we have the tape so people can see.
43:20Why did you have gaslighter David Mamet on the show to begin with? Was he promoting it? Was there a book or something? There was a book that I and only I read. But it was like a memoir type thing, right? No, no, no, no. It was, let me get the title. He wrote like a few of these books. One was called Recessional, The Death of Free Speech, and The Cost of a Free Lunch. Oh, Jesus Christ. Okay. I'm out.
43:43Jason Stewart:He's written a lot of books. Definitely. A lot of books. I remember Everywhere and Oink Oink from a few years ago. That was a big one. Everywhere and Oink Oink. Yeah, he went on Bill Maher for that one. I remember that. And he did, it was called The Disenlightenment. That's what it was called. Politics. So what is his, but what's his whole, what's his thing now? Like, what's he on? Like, give me the elevator pitch on what his shit is right now. I'll just say, because people kept asking, why do you have him on? One, I love David Mamet's play. Oh, yeah, I'm not. I'm not mad at you for that. No. I grew up in Chicago.
44:13He's like a fucking legend to me. Mammot country.
44:16Jason Stewart:Also a great guest in interviews for, you know, seeing him over the years. He's a compelling guy. He's a great talker. It doesn't always make sense, but he's a great talker. So I was like, I was just excited to do it. And then the moment he sits down, it literally goes, David, how are you doing? And he says, well, you know, a lot better because those fucking Columbia protesters are gone. Okay. And I was like, well, right, but what did you have for breakfast? And I was like, oh, he just jumped right into the deep end. You're like, but Cheerios, Honey Nut, or regular? I was like, could we talk about anything else?
44:53But that's where he started. He leaves. He's radicalized. He leaves. You guys almost come to blows. He leaves. The producer tries to console him in, let's say, the parking lot in the valley, just for my mindset. Santa Monica. Okay.
45:09Jason Stewart:I'll get some courage over here, whatever you want. We'll do it. He couldn't be compelled to stay and return to the studio and finish like two grown adults. No. Okay. And then after the fact, did his people reach out to be like, do not publish this? Like, we can't have this up, whatever, whatever. Or were they like, fuck you. Our client is right. They reached out and they apologized. They apologized on his behalf, but they didn't ask for a takedown. No. Wow. I think they were mortified. Sure. You can be mortified and still ask for the takedown. Yeah, you could. We wouldn't have done that. I mean, do you think this even...
45:47I wonder if this negatively impacted him at all. That's the question. You know, we were doing... Because the show... The reason I was like, Chris, I want to come back. It's like, talk easy, just turn 10. Talk easy, just turn 10. Congratulations. That's a long time. It's a long time. and we did this interview in the guardian and it was the first time like someone wrote like a real i know you guys have had a bunch of like profiles but it was the first one that someone really like dove deep and asked a lot of stuff and i she asked me this thing and i've thought about a lot which is like did i feel regret or remorse about how that went and honestly like i don't regret how it went i stand by the tape i stand by the questions but it's impossible for me to like sorry to get like a sentimental on the show but no no no no i was like man this dude's in his 70s he's driving home to his wife and it's just it's a sad image to me that he felt like the need and frustration to like he can't finish a podcast interview and that he thinks any part of me doesn't like or respect jewish people or where he cut like which i yeah couldn't be further from the truth like he came in guns firing and then like your image of him is like angry guy driving home alone and it wasn't like i really came prepared i had read plays that no one had ever seen or read i mean i had read books that frankly none of his supporters on the right have fucking cracked the book and you couldn't and you couldn't even talk about that because he lost his temper we talked a little bit about it but then he did we couldn't get back to it and then it was just lost so i do feel kind of i don't know i can't help but shake like an old man driving home yeah that's okay though i think that's not i don't think you're i don't think i don't think you're wrong i do think it's sad to some extent i mean i think that also like it with people like this is interesting to sort of destroy your legacy for like nothing like who is what what is this what's the point of this like what are you who are you trying to appease who are you trying to impress who are you trying to you what is the point of this maybe i mean maybe you just believe it of course that's fine if that's what the that you feel that strongly but it's crazy to me that someone of that caliber wouldn't listen to some sort of reason from someone he believes he's been canceled he believes he's he's been ostracized in hollywood but was there a certain moment that he was ostracized for or is this a slow roll he says i mean he wrote an article in like 2008 for the village voice i think it was called like why i'm no longer a brain dead liberal okay and the village voice in 2008 i guess people still read it uh it's not 2002 it's like it was still reasonably read you know what i mean because the village voice had a unfortunate long slow death one of our greatest independent newspapers are you a big are you a big supporter chris i love an alternative weekly yeah i think alternative we could because i grew up we had one in atlanta called Creative Loafing.
48:47That was the show listings. That was sort of like any sort of local interest like we're going to profile the record store owner or whatever. That kind of thing is where I learned all of that. I read those religiously. So I think that The Village Voice is obviously the upper echelon of that. That was the best.
49:04Jason Stewart:It's no OC Weekly which I grew up on but it's cute. Exactly. They had a small group of them. I think maybe Athens had one and then like Asheville or whatever. Creative Loafing, What a perfect 90s local rag name. Doesn't get better. It really is. And I think that that is the, I think all that stuff being gone. There was also one in Atlanta called Stomp and Stammer, which is like a newsprint magazine. But it would put, you know, it would put like Nico Case on the cover or whatever. You know what I mean? And then it would be like deep. It was like a very - Put Nico Case on the case. It was just cool.
49:37It was just cool that that's it. Because I used to read those religiously and like collect them. And like the thought of that existing now is so foreign that I, you know. That's what Sub sucks for. It was cool when we cared about things that were happening around us. Boring. Like when we invested in people like in our community and in our cities. Well, hey, bro, I'm investing. Now everything's like national now, so it's all just. I agree. I mean, you know, interestingly enough, when I was fly fishing in Virginia, the fly fishing guide who was like an absolute, you know, like the guy was smoking the watermelon vape, had two Red Bulls, had a ponytail, tie-dyed shirt.
50:14it looked insane. At the end, I was like, oh, have you been doing this? Have you been a fly fishing coach basically your whole life? He's like, oh no, I worked at a printing press. The business just completely, like overnight, it died. He's like, I went to college for it. I did it for 20 years. And then one day it was just sort of like, this ain't happening anymore. And part of it was like these alternative weekly, like that kind of consistent business disappeared. And now I vape. He seemed pretty happy about it, honestly. But overall, I think it was a testament to the whole thing but i'd also i mean i would prefer jason you know buy his chapel room tickets get his adult diaper and go down there and play chess until she hits the stage that's that to me is more that's that's local in its own way i think i've got a sweater i'm trying to finish so i'll probably bring my rig yeah but i think that was a good i'm glad that that got published partly because it's deeply entertaining and second of all because um because i think that we don't see I mean, I think that the whole critique of our entire business now is like, it's softballs, it's softballs, it's Jake Shane, it's this, it's that.
51:19And I think like seeing a guy just absolutely come unraveled because you're asking a few questions that in theory aren't even that hard. If he really, you know what I mean? If he really believes what he's saying, then it shouldn't be that difficult to answer the questions. And him just blowing a fucking gasket is a reminder of what we could have. Yeah. I can't imagine Jake Shane asking those questions.
51:39Jason Stewart:Mehmet wants to be cancelled He has self cancelled fantasies I mean we don't ask questions like that either If somebody's going to storm off on how long gone That's not the show You guys aren't trying to do that No definitely not But I think that people I think that it doesn't matter what the I don't know I think that people can feel backed into a corner Almost no matter what kind of show it is Unless it's like the ultimate softballs With approved questions beforehand And you've rehearsed it like call her daddy level I think it could be anything Have you guys ever sent questions to the person that you're going to have on?
52:11No. No. I've sent topics for interviews. They made me send topics for somber, you know what I mean, for things to cover when I was writing about him. But on this show, no, and no one's ever heard it before it comes out either. And we're not even like, we don't stand on some journalistic principles. It's just like, that's not the game, bro. That's just not how this works. We're not going to give you fine. And once that happens, then it's your fucking brain-dead Serena Williams documenter on HBO that she has Final Cut on. And it's just stupid. It's like nobody wants that. It's just not fun for anybody if that's what you're getting.
52:43That's not a good product. For the guests, too, I think the thing is that I hope we give the guests an opportunity to show part of their personality that maybe other people aren't. You know what I mean? So that's a win for them. Chris, I think we got to get Jason back because Jason's doing some text over there.
53:00Jason Stewart:I was texting our video editor about some notes. I'm deep in the middle of a video edit right now. But luckily, this is an audio-based podcast. So our listener had no idea any of that was happening until you wanted to bring it to light. So if you want to do a little tit for tat, right after David Mamet, you interviewed Mayor Karen Bass. Let's talk about the softball questions going on over there. The floor is yours. Yeah, go ahead. I'm surprised you would platform someone like that. But I guess that's what you're in the business of. Who failed our city so... I guess you didn't have anybody lose a house in your community, Sam.
53:31I don't know. Maybe the east side wasn't as affected by the fires.
53:33Jason Stewart:Yeah, he said, it's just the Palisades, Heidi. It's just the Palisades. No, there's no... I mean, the moment I start telling you what I asked her, I've lost. So it's over. That's true. You're right. You know yourself. I mean, I love that you have to interview all of these politicians because it's just like... I don't think you have to. I don't have to. I like it. Politicians get ratings, right? But don't you think with politicians, and this is in all sincerity, do you ever feel like you're talking to a real human being? because I don't. I think the goal is to somehow get there. Of course, of course, of course.
54:03And even if it's like seven minutes where you're like, okay, something happened. But you think someone, you think someone on, I mean, Karen Bass is obviously a very certain specific thing, but I mean, do you think there are, you know, senators that can actually hang with a microphone on? I think there are. I think there are, but also my feeling is so long as they have the, so long as they have the power to keep making decisions for us. And so long as they keep influencing our lives, they have to answer questions. Like, that's the bare minimum. Oh, yeah, I agree with that. No, no. I'm kind of like, I'll try.
54:38I'm saying more, do you think you ever get the cloak dropped? Like, does the mask, no pun intended, ever come down? Is that like Taylor Lorenz? I'm saying that, does the N95 ever hit the chin when you're talking to an elected official? Not if I have something to do with it.
54:56Jason Stewart:Okay, well, also, you know, does the mask ever come down when you're talking to a fellow podcaster who also projects a character for their entire life more so than a politician like an Ira Glass, like a Malcolm Gladwell? You know what I mean? Like when I listen to a Gladwell interview, I don't get the sense that this is, you know, the veil is dropping and I'm getting the real, real. can i tell you i don't know him super well but having worked for him for a few years uh he's about what you hear on the podcast it's maybe turned up 10 or 20 but he's like i think there's some truth to that too jason when someone's doing it that long it's tough to decipher even what the difference is because i think politicians are really selling themselves and whoring themselves out in a way that even a yeah that's not a slight i'm i mean like if i met terry gross at the supermarket is she gonna be oh is she can you turn terry grows can you turn your broadcasting off i love terry terry's the baddest bitch when do you when do you go when do you go fill in i fill in whenever they need me usually i'm trying to do once every two or three months for a week okay so who who do you get the call from npr they're like look terry had a terry had a bad batch of french onion she's down for a couple days we need sam let me tell you let me tell you something ta-nehisi coats can't move it he has to be now by the way i i they would never move ta-nehisi coats come on lizzie warren said no lizzie warren said no let me tell you something terry does not tap out she is the hardest working bad real bad bitch no she she is the hardest working person i know i mean on oh for sure god i mean she she i mean you guys you guys work and do so many episodes like imagine this she used to do i think like 12 interviews a week damn i mean it was insane suck on that barry weiss um exactly she she and she has not lost a step and like i yeah that's yeah so she's amazing all right so when but do you think she has a say in her fill-in or do you think the overlords of the NPR Lib Corporation are plucking you from obscurity?
57:06No.
57:06Jason Stewart:They're like, what if we get Tyler Mitchell to do it instead of Sam just to mix up the flavor? The photographer, Tyler Mitchell? Exactly. Or who's the gay guy that we have on to talk about who does the TikToks about fashion? Nikki Campbell? Oh, Nikki Campbell. Like, what if we're just going to try something new? Is he the one that gives kind of honest feedback? Yeah, he's so funny. Like, to camera. I like that guy. he's really funny but i just like the idea of them literally a crane picks your head up and then drops him in and it's like all right you and ezra klein let's see what's going on with the straight of hormuz or ezra can you do a circle for me no you and link later are gonna do laps right now see what i have yeah but who gives you who calls your agent and what's that npr check looking like because is it a donation is it a donation i think jason's just looking i think Jason's just on the Talk Easy website naming people that are on the guest page?
58:01Jason Stewart:Again, the veil doesn't have to drop, Sam. Audio-based podcast only. Yeah, Sam, Sam, but for real, when you get that call, like, do you have to pay them to let you do this or do they pay you? Stop. Okay, well, speaking of the Talk Easy website, do people have to pay more money to have just a nice portrait of their face on it versus, like, the artwork of their book? No. No one pays any money. Okay. You know, like Chris Hayes, the broadcaster, like there's a picture of like a newscasting screen. Well, that was an editorial one. I think when we had... Oh, I see. Ezra Klein has his book up there. Will Welch, it's not just a portrait.
58:40Jason Stewart:It's him on the GQ. Yeah. So you get a little, you know, not a household name. No, it's actually based on like if the episode's about a certain subject. So like... Those were not like deep autobiographical interviews. Actually, with the Will one, it was a little bit of mix. No, it's just more so I'm like always interested when, you know, the artwork for certain guests, you have to like, like this person is not famous enough to just have a picture of them. So we have to like weave in what they're known for. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, that's not, Ezra actually came on before and he did get a normal portrait.
59:14Not that it matters. But like, I want to say one thing, like three things. That Nicky guy, what's his name again? Nicky Campbell. Okay. him going through Mark Ronson's outfits was just those are amazing I mean Mark is such a nice guy and like is so game for that but that was I love that video he did it with I think he did it with Charlie too he's done it with a few people it's a really fun construct he is really funny it's like a really fun way to do it yeah he's really funny I'll just say just like on the record I in no world would I ever be able to like co-host or guest host Fresh Air if it wasn't something Terry wanted okay so she's okay no i'm serious i don't know that's yeah yeah i mean it's her you know she's made this thing for fucking 50 years and but you have to go to philadelphia um no i don't have to i do stuff from la too but i i i went to philly recently just to to work in the office and it was it was an amazing experience so when you so if you all right so if they're like all right sam we need you to pinch hit and then it's you know you look at the you look at the lineup you're like oh oh all right well this isn't this isn't my favorite subjects but you know it's npr it's terry for terry we do anything you know we all get dressed for terry not a big avid elementary fan but i'll see what i can do yeah yeah like because because with talk easy you're driving the bus bro you pick you pick it all when if it's quinta it's because you want her you know what i mean but if it's npr by the way i would be happy to do quinta on fresh air we love quinta brunson and by we i mean me i had a nice chat with i had a nice chat with quintet the paul smith thing jason at the val after you left the valet me and quintet chopped it up a little bit
1:00:49Jason Stewart:betty boop she's good people she seems like good people jason i feel like we've been at a party where the three of us were talking i like have a memory of this like a couple years ago it's it's possible it's possible i don't know i don't i don't have any recollection jason towered over Quinta Brunson. I tower over every actor. Every actor is short as hell. Okay, wow, Jason. I tower over all these little bitches. Sebastian Stan, I make him look like a shrimp. It's not because of me. Chris, you tower over them as well. Every actor's short. That's just what it is. That's true. They look jacked on TV.
1:01:21Jason Stewart:They look brolic on, you know, Joe Bernthal on the bear. Like, this guy's gnarly as fuck. You meet him. I'm sure, you know, Josh Brolin as well. Josh Brolin's famous. Josh Brolin's 5 '3". I saw him on this plane train once in Atlanta. No, he is not. He's short as fuck. Terry Crews, he looks like a fucking Godzilla on TV. He's like 5 '6". Terry Crews, little man. For a man, 5 '6 is 5 '3", bro. Maybe 5 '7". Bro, Arlo Parks could take him. I mean, Arlo... Arlo's actually like 6 feet, I think. Arlo got hands, too. Put Bill Hader in a fucking reverse naked choke triangle. Liz is going to email you guys being like, cut all the Arlo Park stuff out just leave that out Liz loves this shit Liz thank you so much for your cooperation I'm sure your team knows what you're capable of and they hate to see you throttled they hate to see you throttled for profit every day on the topic of parties I had a note a chamber that I wanted to run by you the Chateau Marmont we've spent a lot of time partying there over the years and I had a meal there we've all eaten there a bunch of times Do you think there was a time ever when the food at the Chateau was considered good, like in the 60s or the 70s or like, you know, decades ago?
1:02:40Jason Stewart:Was there a time where, you know, the quality was good and the public's perception of what good food is and their need to have higher quality food? Was there a time where the food at the Chateau was considered good? Make Chateau great again? Just their F &B. It's fine for normal people. I don't know. I mean, also, frankly, whatever was happening in the 60s and 70s, there was an amount of drugs where the food was pretty secondary. Let me tell you something, Jason. Yeah, if you're off a couple tabs, man, the scrambled eggs taste good. You know what I'm saying, man? I know exactly what you mean. That baguette is super fresh.
1:03:18You would think it would be better. I mean, you really like, I don't understand. You guys are insane. It's totally fine. The way people talk about this is like they're getting cafeteria food. Like, it's totally fine. It just should be like 10 % better because I like going there. Why? Why? No hotel food is 10 % better. That's not what you're going to a hotel for. You're going to a hotel for other reasons. It's true.
1:03:36Jason Stewart:It's remarkably bad food for how a mate. It's like the one thing that's wrong with it. No, it's crazy. I don't think it's as bad as Jason's saying. I think I'm somewhere in the middle between you two. It's crazy. It's just not that. Everything's kind of bad. So unless you want to go to an annoying restaurant that's going to cost$1 ,000 and you have to sit there for four hours. I know. But it's just, it gets me going when you have this hotel that has such amazing energy, architecture. All the people that work there are legends. You walk on the premises. You feel like you're at Disneyland. You feel so special for being there.
1:04:09Where have you ever had hotel food that's good?
1:04:13Jason Stewart:You go to the Hoxton. You go to the Ace Hotel. These are much lower quality hotels in terms of price, amenities. You're not about to tell me the Hoxton. You're not about to do that. The food at the Hoxton, I've seen it multiple Hoxton's. It is head and shoulders better than Chateau. After this podcast, you will be staying there for free. Yeah. Shout out to my Hoxton family. My last promo code died out, so I need more. But you go to the Ace Hotel in Palm Springs, it's not a culinary destination. It runs laps around Chateau's food. That place, the food at the Ace Hotel is bad business there, I got to say.
1:04:52It's not good. I like the vibe I would rather eat that food You would like the vibe They got a record player in the room for you
1:05:01Jason Stewart:I was just in London a couple weeks ago And I'm going to go there next week We're staying at the Athos Hotel Athos Hotel in Shoreditch Just across the street from the Hoxton Go down I'm going to edit the pod I get a nice Asahi cold beer For$6 An$18 burger That's perfectly done served to me by a normal person and it was quite delicious and this is happening at hotels across the world all over the place. Chris is just mortified. Chris is just sitting there. He's not mortified. No, I'm not mortified. I just could care less about anything. I'm staying in a hotel for the room. I'm not staying there because the salad's good.
1:05:43100%.
1:05:43Jason Stewart:As a perfectionist, I'm like, you're so close. There's just one thing. Somebody walks out, Chris, you're a stylist. You're going to go shoot an amazing model or whatever. And you have this head to toe look that is just exquisite. And then you look in the belt or the shoe or one piece of this look. It's beyond an abortion. It is just astronomical that you decided. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. And all you have to do is change it for something better. And then we have reached perfection. But I don't stay at a hotel. I don't stay at a hotel to eat. I go to restaurants. That's the other thing.
1:06:17The only thing I would ever eat at a hotel is eggs, which is usually fine, is the reality.
1:06:21Jason Stewart:I know. I don't stay at the Chateau, but I go there a lot, and sometimes there's food. There is food. Actually, you know what? Whatever. I got to go. I got to go. Sam, thank you. Thank you for joining us on How Long Gone Today. It was a pleasure. For our listeners at home, Chris just unplugged his headphones and threw them against the wall. No, no, no. I love you, Sam. It was good to see you. Talk easy. Ten years. You should do a victory lap for that. You're one of the greats, and we appreciate you taking the time to join us. Thank you, boys. I love being on the pod, and I can't believe we're ending on this note.
1:06:51Well, look, sorry, I'm in the middle of something.
1:06:53Jason Stewart:We can have How Long Gone appear on Talk Easy one day. Who knows? Yeah, when are you going to let the big dogs come on? Because you're pussyfooting around with all these senators and shit. David Mamet, you want, like, any time. I know. It was a glaze fest with you and Chris from The Ringer. I'm like, what are you going to do for us if we go on? Yeah, I don't even watch movies. Will you be able to get through it? Is it both of you? Would you both come on at the same time? I'll do it. We'll do whatever you want, bro. It's your call. Yeah. We'll do whatever you want. However you want to slice it.
1:07:20Can we have a peg? When's the five-year anniversary of the show? We're about to hit that. We've already bit that. We're about to hit 1 ,000 episodes. Holy shit. Okay. All right. Let's talk about that.
1:07:29Jason Stewart:This episode will be 9.50. Chris has to go have lunch. Okay. Bye-bye. Bye, guys. It's work. Stand in the place where you live. Now face well. Think about direction. Wonder why you have it now. Stand in the place where you were. Now face well. Think about the place where you live. I wonder why you haven't people...
From the publisher
Our friend Sam Fragoso returns to How Long Gone. He hosts the popular podcast Talk Easy, which recently celebrated its 10th anniversary after being acquired by Obama’s Higher Ground.
We chat with him about cashew cream cheese, the White House UFC Freedom 250, Jason thinking Arlo Parks was four British guys, fitness wearable data monitoring, whether Sam gets recognized more with or without an N95 on, David Mamet walking out mid-pod, whether he’s ever interviewed a politician who felt like a real human being, what happens when Terry Gross asks him to fill in on Fresh Air, and we debate whether there was ever a time when the food at the Chateau Marmont was considered good.
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