985. - Jerry Stahl

21:22Jason, you haven't

21:23Jason Stewart:seen the real San Marino. I live in yeah, I've been to the real San Marino many times. It's called Arcadia and they have a great selection of lobster there. I would have gone with Alhambra, but yeah, Arcadia. I would love to live in those huge mansions in Alhambra in Arcadia where they all the Marino and Alhambra meet together like The river and the sea? It's so true. The surf and turf. Yeah. Jerry, how often do you make it into L.A. proper, would you say, on a weekly? A lot. Oh, you are? Okay. I mean, a lot. Yeah, I got to go in there. Yeah. Okay. I mean, you can't stay out here. You'll just, you know, I'll start growing, you know, leaves out of my head.

22:05Yeah, yeah.

22:06Jason Stewart:Well, when you say you got to go in there, do you mean you literally have to for work obligations? Yeah, for business, for business. You know, people, you know, you meet people. I don't. Have a little lunch at the tower, go over a couple of scripts. You're living a whole life I am not, but lunch at the tower sounds great. I've been there. I've been there. Wow. That is so inside baseball, the tower. Look, our listeners know what that is. I feel like, Jerry, you've been having Hollywood meetings for 30 years, so I feel like you've had lunches all over the place, though, in your time. Yeah, yeah.

22:42I've taken a meeting or two, sure. i've sweat through my italian sweater at a meeting or two yeah but i mean in 2026 i feel

22:49Jason Stewart:like most of these meetings that we're taking are happening more similar to how this talk is happening virtually over or over our laptops and not you know let's we i got an 815 at the chateau and then we're gonna go get a get an eight ball you got the chateau and the tower wow i'm an la native jerry are you really where were you born what part i was born in a little place called orange county huntington beach but then i moved i moved up the mean streets very mean streets of hb i was on the wrong side of the tracks don't worry i didn't come from money just to be clear neither did i amen brother but yeah i was in la as soon as we can get up there maybe 20 years old sharing a little shitty apartment with a couple friends in los felis sure you know what i mean scraping some nickels together and here we are jerry where's the shittiest place you've lived because i feel like you've lived in some shitty places i have lived in a shitty place or two i lived uh i once i don't mean to brag but i once took a job as a humor editor a little magazine called hustler and i lived in the ymca in columbus ohio where uh i had to share a giant shower with like guys who had brown lung disease from the mines so they were like hawking on the ground as you're as you're showering very jailhouse yeah to brag but uh since you asked that's probably that was not a pinnacle you were able to remotely edit the humor of hustler magazine from a ymca in ohio well it used to be in columbus that's why i was in new york city and they uh they they moved me yeah that's where larry larry flint okay so he grew up there was that for was that for okay he's from there i was like is there was there a tax situation ohio i wasn't aware of okay he just he just grew up there that's well he grew up in kentucky but what he did he he had a giant house in columbus but within the giant house in his basement he had recreated the shack that he grew up in and he loved to give people tours wow like how the unibomber the how the fbi has the unibomber shack in a warehouse somewhere and you can go take take a tour same kind of vibe i had no idea is that true well i don't you can't take a tour but there there's a friend of mine a friend of mine uh jason matt redid that at a at a at one of his shows in uh in france and it was pretty amazing it was pretty amazing but i i think that living in ohio were you what was your intake of drugs and alcohol in ohio higher or lower it just kept getting higher with every passing year minute hour.

25:26Yeah. Because I feel like Ohio would push any of us to the limit. Columbus was tough. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. But, you know, I had to bring it in from New York. I went, I blew my entire paycheck flying back to New York City every weekend. So it made no fucking sense. But they were moving out to LA. Yeah. And I thought, you know, maybe the dumbest idea any human has ever had. I figured, you know, too many drugs in New York. Maybe I'll go to LA. Yeah, it's not close to the border or anything like that. Yeah, it's harder to get.

25:58Jason Stewart:Whatever Larry from Hustler Magazine tells me to do is probably going to be the wise idea. I was fired six months to the day after being hired. So I got to be on unemployment three months after moving to Los Angeles. What do you think was Larry's issue with your work, your temperament, your production? Like, what was the issue, you think, for your firing? Well, Larry was sort of out of the picture, having been shot in the gut at that point. There was a guy named Paul Krasner. I don't know if you've ever heard of him, if you're a counterculture aficionado. He used to run a magazine called The Realist.

26:31No, I'm not. I'm actually, no, I'm not familiar. I'm not familiar. But famously, if you check it out, there's a photo of Sammy Davis Jr. hugging Richard Nixon from behind, where it looks like he's literally ass-banging him. That was the realist claim. I don't mean to lower the real estate here, but for which he got in a lot of well-deserved trouble. And that was Paul Krasner. Yeah, I was just a mess. You know, I often didn't make it into the office. Yeah, I'm not. I guess I didn't know Hustler had a humor section. I mean, I think the problem is maybe a lot of people didn't know they had a humor.

27:06That's why most people read it. Yeah, of course, of course. I'll tell you something about the humor section. It was called Bits and Pieces. part of my job was people would send in genitally shaped vegetables like i'd get a vagina shaped rutabaga from idaho and then i would have to write the snappy caption i mean how do you do that not on drugs in your defense right okay so we have a celery stick that looks like a penis and your job is like bang bang here's here's three here's three lines look at this wacky guy from boy yeah this this lines up i bet you can put this in her salad you know that that's it that's

27:41Jason Stewart:good that's a good job for a young man still got it it's a reflex that you can't turn off is it right i need give me 10 tags by lunch you son of a bitch you know what i mean something like that i try to shake it but you know once once it's in there do you do you have a pretty amazing like i know you you've uh you've lived a lot of life but have you been able to retain a lot of these publications do you have a rich archive uh from from this era and and moving on or no? You mean, do I have stacks of like creepy beaver shots in, yeah. I do. Well, I'm not saying just that. You've done a lot of, you know, you've written for a lot of magazines.

28:17The answer to that question is yes.

28:18Jason Stewart:I do have a stack after stack of beaver shots. I have a stash of rather questionable publications here and there. Yeah, well, as long as your name's on the masthead, it makes it not questionable anymore. Yeah, just don't let any of these Gen Z grandkids see that stash. Charles. Dad used to write for Beaver Magazine. Oh, my God. I respected him, but man, I went to the basement. Beaver Magazine put you fucking kids through Stanford, son of a bitch, okay? I was such an idiot when I was a kid in New York. I wanted to be a writer so bad. The editor of Beaver had to take me aside and say, you know, man, you might not want to put your real name on these stories.

28:58Yeah, we can do a gnome de plume. I'm a writer. I'm a writer. That's really good. That's really funny. That's really funny.

29:04Jason Stewart:When the editor of Beaver sits you down, you listen. Okay? You listen. You know, you're always looking for father figures in this world. Okay, so we got Beaver. We got Hustler. We got Playboy. Any other publications that are also humor-based did you work for? Maybe some more lesser known? Well, Larry, weirdly enough, had a Larry Flint. I feel very Hustler-centric for some reason. I haven't even thought about that. No, it's okay. We're just taking that. I mean, look at who you're talking to. I get it. Well, you guys are pretty high-end. I've watched some of your shows. Yeah. I mean, where else did I learn that RFK had horrific varicose veins under his jeans?

29:42You're welcome. I mean, I had to take a nap after I saw that.

29:47Jason Stewart:It was horrifying. Okay, it looks like Jerry did his research, too, okay? We got the book. Well, you know, I'm a fan. Amen? Yeah, I'm a fan. Okay, good. Love it. Love to hear that. Love to hear that. Where was I? Larry had a humor magazine. Yeah, he had a humor magazine called Slam. Okay. Yeah. and the story of how that ended is so horrific i don't even know if i can tell it on the air because it's really it's it can't be worse than what happened to teen vogue well what happened is and this is a horrifying story it was a very highbrow magazine so one of the short stories this is very unwoke but i'm just telling you what happened no no please there was a short story called good sex with retarded girls okay i didn't write it i just worked there and i'm embarrassed to recount this it brings you no pleasure to read the title of this article no pleasure but sadly the distributor had a mentally challenged daughter and was not happy being in business with this so instantly you don't you don't say you don't say yeah shockingly uh that came to an end but you know all this stuff i wrote a lot for esquire and uh there used to be a magazine called black book yeah black book had a nice nice run in new york indie fashion for it i had a culture column of details and you know i was that guy but most of it and one reason this book exists boy do i regret telling that story that is just a no that that's actually that's actually a really that's a beautiful time stamp of the stuff that like so you thought you thought you could get away with it when nobody cared you couldn't even get away with it nobody cared as a historian you know people don't like saying what happened in you know what hitler was doing in the in the 30s and 40s but it's it's a part of history and it should be documented you know you should read some of that third rice short fiction i mean yeah i'm i have a pretty rich library of that meaning to get to that yeah weirdly enough i once did a gig a reading with werner herzog's son of all people if i may drop a name who wrote a book called about nazi humor all the jake okay the japes and uh fumery of those wacky...

31:54Those hilarious guys over there? The japes and fumery of Gorbals himself. Yeah, it was a lighthearted romp of a book, you might say. I'm sure.

32:03Jason Stewart:I didn't know Werner Herzog's son or had a son that was a writer or had a son at all. Now you do. I don't... Okay, so what is your relationship to New York now? Because I feel like you... It feels like it was a big part of your life. Do you like to go back or is it a trig? Well, it's one of those weird things, you know, I lived there, what, like 10 years or so. And I still feel like I'm a New Yorker, even though I've been out here. So, you know, I still dress like I'm on the IRG uptown, trying to like look scarier than the mugger at three in the morning, you know what I mean? Yeah, sure, sure.

32:37Which is wholly inappropriate and very, you get a lot of weird looks at the beach. So you wear, are you, are you a guy? Where I never go. Are you a guy who wears, do you wear boots every day? And nothing else, strangely. Okay. Yeah, I hog out. boots on yeah boots and booty that's how i roll boots every boots every day in california is a particular that nothing feels more new york yeah no it's it's it's not good but yeah i try to shake it but they're they just show up in my feet it's just they slide on i don't know about you are you are you a native new yorker no i'm from atlanta but i may have lived here for a long time i wouldn't you know i feel like what took you to new york uh just work really i mean just there's no opportunity in atlanta there wasn't then is that right well for the businesses i wanted to be i think well

33:24Jason Stewart:chris chris came up a big morrissey lover smith's guy i wanted to quote him he wanted to see people he wanted to see life you know what i mean you want to go to the center i think you probably can relate if you want to uh do drugs and have fun and have like a fake fake job new york is the the best place to do that absolutely and i always thought writing was great because it was the one job he could do naked fucked up and alone at three in the morning and yeah you know somewhat make a living you know so uh that's every job now by the way but back then yeah yeah so true that's right that's i hadn't even thought of that so true yeah how the world changes i'm an online shopper i'm a tiktoker whatever it is that can happen at 3 a.m nude on drugs but you leave the house i mean you're on vacation with your wife in a beautiful place yeah i leave the house i mean 11 hours ago, you know, different story.

34:13Jason Stewart:Where are you in L.A. when you live there? I'm in Glendale. Nice. Yeah, we're not far away from each other. No, Mark Maron has a beautiful compound over there. Yes, yes. I know where it is. I shop at that Ralph's Daily. We used to go hiking. I used to see him hiking every once in a while. No, he hikes all the time up that mountain. I call it Mount Maron. I've been going up there lately, but I don't see him. Is that true? Yeah, I do. Has it been Chris? I'll have to let him know We mentioned Mark a lot on the podcast Over the years I know you guys know each other And I'm sure you have One of my best friends He is the godfather of podcasting for sure One of the big reasons why we're here right now Is that right?

34:54Yeah we talked about it a lot If you were listening to podcasts In the early days There was nobody that could touch him

35:03Jason Stewart:We're old enough to be in the first wave Where unfortunately Adam Carolla Mark Maron, you know, that age, those are the first people really doing this, you know? Well, they've taken very different career paths, but yeah. They have. Yeah, I would love to see Adam Carolla in a women's wrestling TV show, but unfortunately, he didn't really. Are you allowed to do that when you're firmly entrenched in the manosphere? Can you wrestle? I guess you can. Why not? Well, I was listening, unfortunately, this morning, I'd run out of stuff to listen to at the gym, and I was listening to Joe Rogan talk to Travis Barker from Blink-182.

35:35That's a rich, full life you're living. Yeah. It is. And I was like, every second of the podcast, I was like, I don't know. Sometimes I like to test how dumb I can feel. Like, it makes me feel so much better about myself, you know, when these guys are doing it. Are you like picking your IQ points off the floor of the gym? Yeah, they're scattered around the equinox.

35:56Jason Stewart:You turn it into a gratitude exercise, which is what I typically do in those situations. Travis Barker has this insane documentary that came out about his, like, obviously, you know, his friends died in the plane crash. He didn't get on a plane. so there's a very interesting section where he's talking about taking a boat to tour blink 22 to england for 20 years he didn't fly on a plane for 20 years he was like i was at one point i was trying to figure out how to take a boat to australia and like the only other person i know that does this is krs1 there's like no other he's like you use a cargo ship if you want to get to australia that's the only is what he said is the only way to get there you have to stow away yeah i mean that's kind of what it sounded like but anyway so it got romantic it was good for 20 minutes and then it got into you know mma and like how much they love tony hinchcliffe and i was like all right i'm out but you know do you rage listen or is it just morbid fascination i think when anything is that popular and that effective it's stupid it would be irresponsible of me not to understand what it is very true you're in a position where you have to be on top of all this shit yeah and i think that I think that burying your head in the sand and acting like it doesn't exist doesn't really serve me.

37:04I would rather at least know what people are raging against or raging for. Well, help me out. What is the most egregious podcast out there right now? The one that you listen to and your head just explodes? Or is that it?

37:16Jason Stewart:Joe Rogan is probably the number one. I mean, because you'll listen to it and every once in a while there'll be somebody interesting on there and they get onto a good little jag and they'll start going and you get some good stories but you know when it when it turns into hour two of you know listening to guys watch videos on youtube and say how awesome it is yeah then you know you're not learning anything you're not like i'm not watching the game tape of my competition and trying to figure out what to do and not to do when that level it's more so just like who's the joke on you know the guy getting paid 20 million dollars a year to do this or me listening to it And what is the answer to that question?

37:53Who is the joke on?

37:54Jason Stewart:Definitely me. Well, that's when I start trying to turn it into a gratitude exercise in my mind. And then once that doesn't hold anymore, and then I'll turn it off. And I wish I could say, pick up the pen and start writing. But I'm probably just going to listen to a different podcast. Yeah, I think that it's also interesting to listen to it only because it's like so rambling and so unorganized, not edited at all, which I think I understand. Is this raw? Yeah, I mean, I think if it's not, then I would be stunned. They used to not even cut bathroom breaks. Are you kidding? You just hear guys in the background for three minutes.

38:31Jason Stewart:Yeah, now they'll cut it. Like you would hear Joe's manly testosterone-laced stream? Yeah. As we were. His piss sounded different than ours. You wouldn't hear the actual stream, but one guy would be like, Joe, I'm sorry, I got to take a fucking leak, bro. And you hear the office chair squeak. Wow. You hear the microphone, the headphones hit the thing. You hear footsteps down the hall. You hear one guy talking to his friend. So where are you guys going to dinner tonight? Yeah. And I think that's, in some places, that could be charming. But when you're going for three and a half hours, and part of it's about MMA, and part of it's still about a vaccine, it's like, all right, bro.

39:09Like, I don't know. I find it really fascinating how big it got and how many people have probably never heard it. like they know to hate it but they've never heard it to even know what they hate and that feels a little irresponsible to me no you got to listen to it yeah you have to kind of like infinite jest

39:25Jason Stewart:you know you can't talk shit on it unless you read the whole thing right couldn't be me i read the book and uh outside of the tennis parts which were tough i kind of loved it i don't think anybody's i i know that makes me kind of whereas i only read it for the tennis parts jerry what do you know but i mean boy nobody ever wrote better about drugs i mean he really uh yeah there's some great drug stuff. I thought he was funny. You don't think he was funny as shit? Maybe it's a boomer thing. I think that kind of thing. I haven't read Infinite Jess. I've only cracked it a few times. It's very mockable.

39:56Jason Stewart:But I did read his book about tennis, actually, and he is very funny. Yeah. Are you a tennis guy? Yeah, we both like tennis, but we don't really play. During COVID, it was a big thing during COVID for us, but nowadays, I don't have the time. It's too hard in New York. Unfortunately, I don't really like anyone that's playing right now. Like, I don't like Yannick Sinner. I don't really like Carlos Alcaraz. It's like, there's no one for me to root for except Ben Shelton. I like Ben Shelton because he's actually exciting and feels like a real person. Ben Shelton, okay. Because, you know, tennis players, any solo sport, I think, you have to be sort of a psycho with no personality because you've only been, your entire focus, your entire life is one thing.

40:38And if you're good at that, you don't have to develop any other parts of your personality. Which is very brutal if you fail. You have no personality. You have nothing left. But, I mean, you see these guys. I'm not projecting here. I'm talking about tennis players. All you have is personality. What are you talking about? What are you talking about? Pure pee. Do you follow sports at all of any kind? I used to, you know, but I can't say I do now. I mean, curling, of course, because. Sure, sure. Only the good stuff for you. Yeah, I don't really. I like the broom. I don't really follow anything either, but I think it is like, I realize now as I've gotten older that it's really simply a way now it's for people to gamble.

41:14But right before that, I think it was for people. I think it was for specifically for men to have a way to relate to each other was really what the function was. Of course. But all I can think of is, look, I'm paying to watch some kid who's making 40 million a minute and I'm not. And I, you know, I get locked into that and then I feel sort of chumped. Were you at what were you? Were you ever athletic? Did you ever have ambitions? I used to box as a kid, but I had no ambition. And I followed the Pirates. I grew up in Pittsburgh. Again, not to brag. I like the Bucks as we used to call them. That feels like one of America's great teams.

41:48Great logo. The Pillbox hat was an icon. Back in the proverbial day. The Pillbox hat. Did they have Pillbox hats? The Pirates? Yeah. They have the famous It's the famous black and yellow kind of stripe. I remember the colors. When I think of Pillbox hat, for some reason, I think of Jackie Kennedy. So I'm clearly off. Yeah, well, that's also, I mean, no, I think that's a different pill box. Different pill box, different kind of pill box. Yeah, you know they can be shaped differently. I know, I know. They can be shaped differently. I clearly, my tonsorial sense is a little challenged when it comes to hats.

42:21When you were putting together this book, was it sort of, were you having to kind of, did you reread everything, go back to some places you had forgotten about? Was that part of the joy or part of the kind of awful part? joy slash horror because part of what makes this book a tad unique if i may do some pimping is that some of the pieces maybe not that great but then i write an s each one has an intro yeah right talk about what was happening and why like you know going to like a nude singles retreat with like the buffet table just a pube level you know and uh having to eat with a bunch of strangers completely naked you know the fun stuff you know and then reliving that and what happened

43:08Jason Stewart:and the drugs i was on maybe for that one yeah where are some of the some of the tales i feel like the little intro it's sort of it's not qualifying what's going on but like hey this is a story about xyz but the reason you know why it's culturally important in 2026 is you know for these reasons kind of thing right but slightly less term paperish but kind of like that yeah of course ideally moderately funny and amusing no all i only read the intros when i read your book that's all you need that's all you need yeah keep it moving and intros that's all i mean blurbs and intros name of your next book but the next title my favorite part about the little intro for each chapter was like this piece for playboy magazine was originally 8 000 words and i got it cranked down to 4 700 for this one fascinating of me what every reader wants to know yeah but i was No, I mean, but also I was like, Jesus Christ, this guy is writing so much about this thing.

44:08Jason Stewart:And this is the version where 50 % of it is on the cutting room floor. So back then, without all of these stimuli going on, you would pull up your copy of Playboy and tuck into a 47-page. Well, the really long shit was like I did an interview with Mickey Rourke, again, to drop a name, where, you know, you go hang out with Mickey. And, you know, it was such a bizarro interview. I think I left that one pretty much intact. How long, how much time did you get with Mickey? I did. He was shooting a movie called Angel Heart back then in New Orleans. So I was down there for a couple of weeks. And then up here, he had a little, Jesus, like a weird little apartment in Beverly Hills.

44:54Jason Stewart:I've got to say, trailing Mickey Rourke for two weeks in Louisiana. Louisiana. That's an entire magazine's annual budget in 2020. So we talk, we talk about a lot on the show, how that is sort of like that style. Celebrities won't allow it. Magazines, newspapers won't pay for it. And there's no way to really, our friend Shaw just did one with Charlie XCX where he was with her for like five days and it was really, and I'm, I'm, where was he publishing it? For Pitchfork, for Pitchfork. And I'm, I mean, I'm biased because, you know he's a friend but like sure it's good it's cool to like yeah hear about what's going on around someone when they're at that level when they're peaking and this is like you know they there's this whole infrastructure and sort of society around them that is completely lost in like a sanitized you know magazine profile well yeah yeah i mean i used to do a lot of celebrity profiles and along with uh you know i was like uh starlet boy at esquire where i had you're you're Who are some of these starlets that you were a whisperer for?

46:00Are you asking me any question that involves a memory? Owning a memory? That was my mistake. Well, I think the question Jason's trying to ask is, did you accidentally have sex with any of them? We're not going there. We're not going there. They're married happily. They're happily married. And one of the kids has a unibrow. Oh. That's what I'm going to say. And, you know.

46:23Jason Stewart:Okay. You got a couple little stalls around there somewhere. Okay, well, instead of asking you to pull from memory more, maybe, do you think, could you answer why you became the Starlit Whisperer? What about you? I mean, your ability to not, quote-unquote, scare the hoes, as people talk nowadays. Wow, yeah. Damn. That's a compliment. Your ability to not scare the hoes. You need a website. And thank God that Squarespace exists, Jason, because if you're online or you want to show up online, Squarespace is not only your friend, but also your partner. Yes, and I love my partner. And without my partner, I would not have a customizable website that attracts clients and grows my personal brand.

47:14Jason Stewart:Squarespace will get you paid on time with professional on-brand invoicing, online payments, streamline that web-based workflow with built-in appointment scheduling and even email marketing tools. We got analytics. We're uploading videos. We're doing email campaigns. It's a one-stop shop over here at Squarespace. So head to squarespace.com slash how long for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code how long to save 10 % off your first purchase of a website or domain. I always look at August, not only as the end of summer, but also the perfect time to hit that reset button before the autumn rush begins.

47:53We're busy. Everybody's busy.

47:54Jason Stewart:We have to autumn-ify the house. We have to automify the house. I can't think of a better place to start than my damn closet, and that's why I love shopping at Quince. Quince is all about fewer, better pieces. Their clothes are made with premium materials built to last and designed to become the ones you reach for day after day. Yeah, that's right, Chris. I mean, we love all of their ultra-soft organic teas. Of course, the cashmeres. It's getting into cashmere season again. You're getting a little chilly out there on the bistro table for two. Upgrade your everyday. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash howlong.

48:35Jason Stewart:Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns now available in Canada and the UK, too. That's quince.com slash howlong. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Sounds about right until you actually do the goddamn math. For most, business shipping is that thing. What is it actually costing you? Because if nobody's questioning it, it's probably costing way more than it should. ShipStation makes switching easy, and the savings are immediate. Yeah, Chris, the shipping game, you go to the post office, you go to any of these places, and unless you have a friend on the inside who knows what's going on, they're going to get you.

49:13Jason Stewart:The cost of all this stuff, they don't want it to be cheap and easy for you. They're all trying to make as much money from you as possible. ShipStation is a friend. It's a light in the darkness of the mystery of shipping. It's so tough. And with ShipStation, you can connect with over 200 online marketplaces and the accounting and CRM tools are there. So, you know, there's no mystery. It's all plug and play. No rebuilding, no disruption. We're shipping out those orders as fast as possible for as cheap as possible. And that revenue is coming in without slowing down your team. I like revenue. The sooner you switch, the sooner you start saving time and money.

49:49get started with ShipStation today and get 60 days free. It's ShipStation.com with code how long. That's ShipStation.com slash how long. ShipStation.com. Code how long. Taxes and fees do apply. I think what would answer this question more is there was one of these profiles that probably set the world ablaze and then you became the guy to do this kind of thing is what I would guess. Yeah, I, you know, I was, I always was under the delusion I was a novelist. So in my mind, this was all to pay for the privilege of writing soon to be never published novels. And I had like six unpublished novels before my first book.

50:27So. Oh, wow. But probably the most difficult, you know, I had to go down to Miami and write about Cindy Crawford, and she postponed for a day. And I fell asleep on the beach like a complete mook. So that when I met her, I was like Johnny Lobster. You know, it was mortifying, you know. And she was so nice. She took me to her house and gave me some onions to put on my fit. But it was, like, really embarrassing.

50:56Jason Stewart:Oh, really? You know, that's like an amateur move. Cindy Crawford put a little aloe on there? Little aloe, little this, little that. Well, she had a skincare company, I think, at the time. But this is a great anecdote. This was a write-off. This is a great anecdote about how there is just not a planet today where that kind of thing would happen. You know what I mean? Like, there's not a world. Unless you were gay, that would not happen. I guess that's true. I hadn't thought of it that way, yeah. Well, the shoe fits. I only think about it that way, Jerry. Yeah, sure. I Googled who are some starlets that Jerry Stahl wrote celebrity profiles about.

51:31Jason Stewart:Oh, you're killing me. One confirmed celebrity interview is Ben Stiller. Yeah, hot starlet of his time. Yeah, Ben, you know, Ben, we became friends because in that weird phenomenon where somebody plays you in a movie. So you kind of, you know, he followed me around and that's a whole other. But you had spent time with some actors, but I imagine that's a different way of spending time. Yeah, occasionally, but I wasn't like deep into Hollywood. I just kind of fell ass backwards into Hollywood. You know, I never wanted to be a screenwriter or anything. Do you find it less satisfying work-wise or was it just like the money's good and again, I'm going to write books?

52:10The money's great. Well, like the difference between writing a novel, say, and a screenplay is when you write a novel, it's just you. And if it's any good, it's you. And if it sucks, it's you. When you're writing a screenplay, it's like sitting at a computer with 10 people screaming and smacking you in the back of the head as you're trying to write. and then telling you that's not what they want. It's a whole... It's a cliche.

52:30Jason Stewart:Yeah, we're going to ruin your story and take all the credit for it. Yeah, but whiny overpaid screenwriters is probably the most boring template in the world. But yeah, it's a thing. It's a thing. I've been fired from some great gigs. Because of your attitude? Who knows? Who knows? I didn't know. I assumed it wasn't quality of work products. So the only other thing it could be is attitude. Absolutely quality of work. How did you feel about somebody so short playing you on camera? You're a tall guy, right? Ish. About six foot. I love the guy. I thought he did a great job. What can I tell you? Yeah, what does it feel like to see?

53:11I'm sure you saw it so many times in Progress, but then at the premiere, you're in a room full of people watching your life on the screen played by Ben Stiller. Well, just imagine, you know, just seeing the worst moments of your life, nine feet high, portrayed by movie stars. It's disconcerting, to say the least. And it's kind of one of those things where the moment of your greatest success is also the moment of your greatest shame. Because, you know, obviously I was being rewarded for being a complete loser dope fiend.

53:48Jason Stewart:Yeah, but you were a loser dope fiend in a cool way. Not really. Unless you think vomiting on your shoes is cool. It's really not a whole hell of a lot. It's not. But I mean, there's been a lot of heroin addicts and not a lot of movies about them. You know what I mean? You think? I feel like there's like a glut of memoirs and movies. I guess that is a good point. How long have you been sober? I'm heading into 30, you know, since I've had a needle in my neck. But, you know. 30 is a, I mean, no, congratulations. 30 is a very, very long time. I just. Well, yeah. What am I, 28? anything you know i i'm i'm so superstitious that i i just kind of roll through you know i'm not a big birthday guy i don't know if you know in la they do birthdays they have cakes of course you just do an anniversary but you know it's an anonymous program so you know yes yeah yeah i'm assuming uh as you get with every year passing your you you care less and less and you celebrate it less and less some days but some days you know that beast gets awakened i mean it's it's grotesque i could be driving down the street and see some guy in the fentanyl lean kissing his kneecaps i'm like well that that guy's got it going on you know dude honestly pretty fucking good you know it's it's there's no rhyme or reason so i don't know that i will ever get that's just me i don't know about other people so i can't say that i'm cured you know what i'm saying there's always a little for me right you never fucking know that's that's fucked up that you say that because because i i've i've been sober for 10 years and i was on oxy and i sometimes see a similar thing where i'm like well it looks i know exactly how that guy feels and he at least feels good he might look like shit but you know what he's comfortable you see a guy sleeping underneath a dumpster and you say that guy's getting some good z's right now getting some quality z's he It feels better than I feel right now, despite the way they look.

55:44There's no other drug that is so visibly. You're not seeing people on coke walking down the street. It's not noticeable in the same way. No, they're dancing. Yeah, yeah. It's not noticeable in the same way. So when you see a fentanyl. Yes, we are. You know what it is. They're yammering. You know what it is. No, I know what you mean. Yeah, I've never done fentanyl. But, I mean, you really got to be flexible, it would seem. I mean, these people are just. Marin does a great bit about that About how heroin addicts Would do kind of a nod And then fentanyl You go all the way It's true though You're kissing your toes

56:21Jason Stewart:If you've got some kind of If your hips or your lower back Or your hip flexors are kind of stuck Just a little fent And wouldn't you know it You're suddenly touching your toes Haven't been able to touch my toes in years It feels like Yeah, as long as you can see them, that's all that matters. I don't know if the, yeah, I mean, I think that the fentanyl thing, feel like it really came on hard, and now I don't hear about it at all anymore, which is so strange. Like, I don't, you remember, like, two years ago, three years ago, it was like, that was the same way the opioid crisis was like, that is the news, that is the front page of the newspaper.

56:55And now you sort of don't hear about it anymore. And I doubt that that's because it's declined in popularity or use. Maybe because it's old news. Yeah. And also they're now mixing this shit called Trank in with it. So that, I mean, if you really want to just terrify yourself, go online and there's a place in Philly called Kensington. And it's nothing but fentanyl. And, you know, you can get into this weird, it's like watching, you know, a nature show horribly, you know, and you're looking at these people. And I mentioned it because this drug like eats away your flesh like that. So you shoot up and before you know it, you're just like a living two-legged scab.

57:39It's really gnarly. I've seen some of that. It's really, really gnarly. It's really, really gnarly. But I mean, yeah, I think that it's, yeah, drugs just change over time. It's so interesting what's in vogue and what's not and how people, it's fascinating that some hang on and some evolve in very different ways. And the user profile changes completely as well. You think so? I mean, what does the user profile these days say? I think young people now are just a little more afraid. Like, I think you probably just didn't give a shit. I didn't really think about consequences at all. It didn't cross my mind that I could die.

58:15That's for sure. You know what I mean? That never really crossed my mind. Whereas I think young people now are acutely aware and scared of everything. And I think that's part of the reason.

58:25Jason Stewart:We used to just be afraid of getting some weak shit. That was about as far as the fear went. Yeah, I was afraid of it being bad or getting caught by the police. You know what I mean? Those are the two things. Well, but oxys are pills, right? Or were they fake? Because now apparently we're selling oxys, I have heard, that are caught with fentanyl. Totally. Well, they're pressed. They're made. Everything's fucked up now. And cocaine's fucked up. So it's a bad time to be a fiend of any kind, it would seem. Yeah. Not that it was ever great. There are reasons to be afraid. Never been a worse time to be a fiend.

59:00because yeah because well put that's well put exactly yeah technology has advanced in a way

59:06Jason Stewart:where the worst person you've ever met is able to make their own fake xanax pills out of fentanyl and baking soda and it looks good enough you know and they don't really care yeah exactly right yeah but other but i i hear people still you never hear about heroin anymore i i hear tell people are still getting it off the dark web yeah mailed to their comfortable home i think that people on heroin are too busy being high to to tell anyone else about it but every other drug yeah yeah yes or no you know i was reading um playboy magazine there's an article has the new cocaine finally arrived there's an article about cocaine it's called 3mmc which is like a like a pill designer drug that people say is kind of like a little ecstasy a little coke but you're not like irritated like the good parts of coke and not the kind of cracked out bad parts of coke whatever and i was thinking like you know playboy magazine it's been done so you know it's gone up and down so many times yeah and then it went you know we're just we're not no more nudity and we're doing this now and now you know nudity is back and we're going to write about you know the new cocaine so we're going to go back to whatever playboy was doing in the 70s cocaine uh how if if somebody was like Like, hey, you're the new editor-in-chief of Playboy.

1:00:25Jason Stewart:How would you revive it today? I would go right to the new cocaine, clearly. That seems like the room you want to take. That's a fastball down the middle for Playboy magazine, right? Right over the plate. I haven't seen it in a while, I confess. So they don't have pictures? They do have pictures? No, they do. No, Jason, there is nudity. There is nudity. But during COVID, they went, remember, they went, like, we're going to revamp. Oh, they revamped? It's going to be tasteful, but still, you know. It's going to be risque, but there's going to be no actual nudity nudity. People were kind of messed.

1:01:02Jason Stewart:People got pissed off. Then it's like, we're going to transition into NFTs. NFTs, Jesus. You know, everyone kind of scrambled during COVID. And now they've seemed to, there's new people in charge. There's a guy that we're friends with, I believe, is still the editor in charge, Philip, right? Yeah, I mean, as of like three months ago. Yeah, so now it's back to titties and cocaine and hopefully, you know, the... And hip stereo equipment. Not that you've heard the word stereo in 50 years. Yeah, I would love to see some cool stereo equipment. The new Marantz receivers are in and we're going to get...

1:01:37Jason Stewart:I need 4 ,000 words on that. All about that turntable. Let's do a full breakdown of the Marantz receivers for the December issue. Yeah. For the December issue. Well, I love that you picked up a Playboy. I mean, where do you even get them? I mean, I get it on Google Chrome. I get it on Google Chrome. No, you can. Yeah, you can buy it at the news. I'm sure you can still buy it. No, but no, this was just. Did you buy the physical magazine? Yeah, yeah, you can. It's very impressive, man. No, I did not, but you can. I only saw this because the person, you know, I saw it on Instagram, you know, the same way we see everything.

1:02:07Jason Stewart:Everyone that we know who writes anything, if you're, be it a recipe or a long form journalistic endeavor. Sure, I know. I'm so bad at self-promotion. I mean, I just suck. but that is the way to go yeah has anyone asked you to set up your phone on a tripod in your living room and say hey guys jerry here anyway my new book comes out on september 22nd i have been asked to do that and uh i i'm a little tardy in getting that together you know yeah i don't know man i mean i i feel like i'm missing that gene maybe it's generational it used to be kind of uncool you know not that oh it still is uncool it still isn't cool how do you feel like is self promotion just second nature for you guys in your in your world i guess it has to be right well i mean compared to you we do a lot more of it but compared to the average you know 25 year old content creator person we are being lapped you know a hundredfold yeah i mean we're not that young i mean we're in our early to mid 40s so it's like there's really yeah i'm clearly hitting the peptides man you look great thank you for noticing well it's sobriety if you need anything Jerry, just let me know offline, okay?

1:03:15Jason Stewart:Yeah, well, show me your stack, as the kids say. And I'll show you mine. But I do think anybody that's in their 30s even, like early 30s, is a different ballgame than where we are, than where you are. I think it's very generational. I think it's very generational. But there's always going to be cool. There's millions of very cool 18-year-olds who are saying, you know, filming myself, doing anything on TikTok, talking directly into the camera lens is the dumbest thing they could ever think of. There's still a lot of cool people out there. Really? So there's a backlash. I think there's a little bit of a backlash and a rejection to it.

1:03:53Jason Stewart:And people are like, the problem is, clips became the way to advertise the show. And now the clip is the show. So the worry is if I wrote, if I spent two months writing this crazy story about this crime in a foreign country and it's going to get 20 pages in the new yorker i still have to be like hey guys my name is jason stewart and i did an awesome thing today i wrote this dope story and check out 99 of the people are going to watch that video and one percent of them are going to click through and actually read it so you know you got to do it you talking into the camera is yeah is the book is the problem that that is true how did was there a point at which you said this is the way we got to go i mean did you ever ever have other other plans of being a podcaster or was this a a direct choice or something you just sort of staggered into i started i started out as a dj i was i was djing and throwing throwing events and parties and doing some you know creative kind of work and that's how chris and i met early mid-20s doing you know throwing parties with vice and you know i love vice alcohol brands and sponsors and all that stuff but i mean i used to i don't know what's going on yeah another thing that seems to be coming back too and that's how and you guys met and decided to work together well i i i started podcasting because i was like oh i'm gonna i'm listening to maryn and all these other things are starting up and i i like listening to that when i'm you know at the gym or whatever it is because as a dj it's just like i i found i wasn't able to listen to music and enjoy it i had to it was it was like i'm a sommelier with wine you know not to toot your own horn but it becomes a job at a certain point and you're not listening to music because you like it you have to your brain is constantly critiquing it like is this a song i could play or whatever interesting so i would find myself listening to podcasts because i just needed a break from music and then i said oh you know i could do this this seems like a fun way to maybe grow my profile and then i'll get more dj gigs and then you know the podcast became the thing and now I book DJ gigs because people who listen to the show you know need a DJ every once in a while but I bet you charge a lot more because you're very high-profile thank God I do charge a lot more yes I only I only DJ weddings and corporate events now so I've spent my time getting paid 50 bucks and a couple Stella's on you served your time in hell I served my time in hell getting paid peanuts to do this, and now we're only doing corporates.

1:06:29And you meet a lot of fascinating people doing corporate gigs, I'm sure. Yeah, no, of course. Some of our greatest minds.

1:06:37Jason Stewart:Well, those people, they're dealing with the worst of the worst, so if you can brighten their day with a little bit of that razzle-dazzle, they'll be like, hey, I met a weird guy named Jerry today. I don't fucking know how to give him a ride to the airport, but funny guy, I'm going to check him out. Versus like, oh, I met another worst person on planet earth today wow i've gone full circle on it where i kind of love to interact with people yeah because it's just like i'm around fucking cool guys all day like it's exhausting that's kind of great i mean i love talking to people and i love interviewing i mean i plus i love collaborating so the fact you get to work you guys are obviously pals so that's yeah yeah yeah agreed no i agreed i mean i think that i think that like that is uh the joy of the whole thing for sure and we get i think often we talk about it but we get surprised a lot which is something that i feel like if you're most jobs that doesn't happen very often that's true you know what i mean like most jobs you kind of know what you're getting into every day and that's sort of the that's the mundane part that you like hate but i think we you know sometimes we know we're going to get oftentimes we don't know what we're going to get and that's part of the fun of the job you'll learn there's a lot of needles in these haystacks over here and you could there's a lot of gold a lot actually I wrote a note down when I was reading one of your stories the word guano a lot of guano to be mined out there in the world you know you talk to every taxi driver every hundred of them is going to have something you could steal for your next screenplay you know what I mean?

1:08:05Everybody's got some bizarre crazy war they've been fighting their whole life that nobody knows about and then you know if you can dip into that and just listen it's great yeah yeah i mean i think the biggest thing that's changed is that those stories now people want to tell themselves straight to camera for their 100 followers instead of letting a professional do it

1:08:26Jason Stewart:for them but that's it but that's our jobs chris and you jerry as as cultural curators to to listen to these people's stories steal them absolutely profit from them like we were we were in uh denver a couple years ago and our uber driver you know in the 37 minutes he we spoke to him he revealed that he used to sell coke to who was it rodeo jack oh that was jack nickel oh my god he was a rodeo coke salesman he he would no he was a ski slope cocaine dealer in the 80s and would and jack nicholson would come over and he'd you know meet him on the slopes and give him a few eight balls and he was like when everyone would come to aspen and you know all all the 80 literal skiing yeah and he was like yeah i mean i was just the guy who sold and i'm like that is a movie right there oh i'm sorry did i hear the word rodeo well he was was there a rodeo in there he will he was yeah because he was also telling us jason i believe he's the one who introduced us to the term buckle bunny yeah see that made this whole show worthwhile i mean i love talking to you guys I buckle bunny.

1:09:31Give me a fucking break. Buckle. Buckle. Buckle. Buckle.

1:09:34Jason Stewart:Like a belt buckle. I mean, a woman who's attracted to a large belt buckle of a rodeo cowboy. Are you kidding me? Buckle bunnies? If you win the rodeo, you get. This is what I've been doing, Ron, all my life. A belt buckle. My buckle's too small. Well, there's also the, in hockey, they're called puck bunnies. I found out now that there's like a. In skateboarding, it's called a ramp tramp or a pro hoe. Yeah. So do you have like pod bunnies in your world? Yeah, we do, and they're 37-year-old men who could lose a few. You say that like it's a bad thing. Hey, look. Their money's still green, brother.

1:10:08We love them, but bunny would be very generous to refer to them.

1:10:12Jason Stewart:In the DJ world, we've got booth bunnies. They like to hang out in the booth and enjoy our Tito's as well as our tequila shots. But yeah, the podcast world, there is no bunny. No bunny? We don't have a bunny yet. Bunny-free zone? It's a bunny-free zone. Maybe there is for some of our fellow podcasters who are on Netflix. You know what I mean? Maybe Pete Davidson's having a different experience than we are. But he's a little bit more than a podcaster. But yeah. I guess our boy Mark Maron's done quite well with the ladies, you know, just off of podcasting, right? That's true. That's true. No comment necessary from you, Jerry.

1:10:44I only know what I read. No comment necessary. Yeah, but I think that that's a great example of like, if I would have been alone in that cab in Denver, I would have sat there and looked at my phone but because Jason and I were together and this guy wanted to talk we just fucking we did it hey Jason remember the African guy in Chicago that cab driver oh my god this guy we got a guy

1:11:08Jason Stewart:who he said he was a he flew here moved here from Africa to become a pastor in a church and he was just you know talking about how he's living the good life and blah blah blah and he's saving his money and sending it back home to the village and by you know by the time we made it downtown 22 minutes later he's just talking about how he cheats on his wife he's got bitches in every area code what restaurants to eat at and which one has the hottest chicks at it the best the best part jason was going through he told us about his favorite restaurant and jason was just going through the dishes and like kind of asking for details in every dish and he was just so psyched to talk about it and having so much and it was like yeah but again if either of us would have been jason you're more apt to do that than me but even so it's like between rice based dishes and pussy this guy would was lit up he was at it all he had it all couldn't stop talking about have you ever put somebody like this on your show like no we we haven't i i think that we there's some podcasting rule where you don't i think this is something this is our this is our netflix show this is our comedians in cars getting coffee it's got it this is podcasters in ubers prodding drivers but i would say i would say, Jerry, unfortunately, I think the risk is as soon as you professionalize it, it loses its...

1:12:25Good point.

1:12:26Jason Stewart:Yeah. Good point. As soon as you turn a camera on or a microphone on, people, especially if they're not used to it, they act different. It's a different thing. It doesn't become art anymore. It becomes a different thing. The best thing we can do is retell it to you and relive it, which it was. And embellish if you can. Yeah, those are two great examples of that where we were together and it just sort of happened that way. I love that he went from like saving souls to like the hottest chicks and the best. It was so good. He's like, well, I've got seven wives back home, but I've also got three girlfriends in Chicago.

1:12:58It was like that kind of vibe. It was like, it was a, he just couldn't help us.

1:13:01Jason Stewart:He was teaching us how to like cheat on his wife while she's with him. You know what I mean? He's like, I'm so bored. He was going full Andrew Tate on you. He was going tape mode. He was going tape mode. I mean, once you, once you get so advanced, you know what I mean? where do you go once you interview once you have obama on your podcast where do you go once once you've cheated on your wife a thousand times you have to figure out how to do it while she's in the room you know making it more challenging especially as a cab driver you know while she's in the room yeah yeah yeah yeah you lay out a beautiful picnic in the park you bring your wife a nice ball of wine i'm sniffing a reality show right now that's all i'm saying yeah this guy was that guy was a star that guy was a star and i think that there's but i mean i think that's the thing that we say all the time is that people always ask us like oh who's your dream guest and it's like i don't really have that anymore it's more about like who will surprise us the most yeah and that's that's really the the joy and the fun of it i think is is not knowing what you're gonna get have you ever had a total dud and you just oh many all the time all the time but today not really but if you get if you stay with it there's something underneath right if you always always this well this happened famously fairly recently with a hardcore band called converge which is a band that jason and i grew up loving and like the singer of that band was you know whatever he was i would say for almost a solid 40 minutes a total dickhead to the point where it was like jason's texting me on the side being like we got to cut it we got to cut it and and we just held the line and it ended up getting to a spot there was at least we felt good about i think the audience still was like this guy's a dick but they don't have the a lot of them don't have the reverence for him that we do you know what i mean so for us it was like a personal accomplishment to get that over the line yeah to get that over the line you got that rich chocolatey center exactly and also it happened with jay mascus from dinosaur jr as well yeah really where i was it to me famous guy yeah yeah he he with with both of those situations it really like chris said hold the line it really is you get a big fish on the line and then we got an hour who and we're both going to tire ourselves out and have a mutual shake of hands i'm i'm going to pull you onto the boat take a photo throw you back in the water we'll live to fight another day but he's he's saying like i'm going to ice you out and you're going to ice me out and we're going to do this dance and for the 11 people still listening at the end of it they're going to feel like they just watched the odyssey you know yeah it's a it's a wow it's an act it's a whole play that that gets laid out yeah it does it i i think yeah it does happen i think that i don't know i think people come in also just not knowing what they're getting into and it takes a little while for them to understand what's happening yeah because what we do like you said earlier it's a collaboration not really an interview like we don't we don't have a list of questions that we go down and no i love that and try to get our soundbite it's a convo it doesn't matter what it's about as long as it's good and entertaining you know yeah even even someone like Jay Mascus, who's like a legend to both of us.

1:16:02Like I, I listen to Ister Junior all the time. It's like, he's done a million and I mean, literally a million interviews. Guy's been fucking famous for 40 years. So it's like interviewing those guys. Yeah. Yeah. Like I don't blame him at all. Like I don't blame him at all. He's, and he's also not a chatty guy to begin with, you know, personality wise. But you, but you got there. It sounds like eventually. Yeah. But Jason and I, our attitude is we're going to do this no matter what, like whether you like it or not, we're going to do it for an hour. So you can either get down or lay

1:16:28Jason Stewart:down yeah but it's also it's it's a mutual respect and it's a it's a sharpening of the blade it's it's saying like yeah imagine if you interviewed a guy for an hour and every response to a question was a yes or a no i've been there yeah i'm sure you got the new album coming out what's that like you're like yep and then and then we wait yeah and then you see how see what happens and then eventually we we break we cry i mean in my experience everybody's got their script you You know, the thing they always say or their monosyllabic reactions. But if you can wait through the awkward silence at the end of that and just sit there and hang with it, that's when you get the real, you know, the real gold.

1:17:14Jason Stewart:You can sniff the media train can response bullshit. Exactly, yeah. And, you know, you just try to run towards anything but that. Well, clearly you've avoided the traditional star. How did you get into acting? You just recently went to Hawaii with the family. Any funny stories about that? Well, it's partly because we don't want to hear that and partly because I actually don't care how you got into acting. That's the other thing. Or Hawaii. Yeah, or Hawaii. I don't care about either one of those. I'm just curious. Do you love your fans or do you hate your fans? Oh, you love the fans? That is so interesting.

1:17:49Jason Stewart:Wow. That's so crazy. alright Jerry thank you for joining us in How Long Gone it was a pleasure this was a real treat man it was fun thank you alright honor and a pleasure I hope maybe maybe when Chris is in LA one time we can go grab some go grab some Chinese food over there in Arcadia yeah let's hang let's hang go buy some cashmere Gonzo Neurotic is out September 22nd everywhere wherever books are sold wherever books are sold alright great thanks Jerry really appreciate it man thanks man it was really great talking to you Little Johnny sat and walked. First he jumped and then he heard. Trout to touch those tracks of mine.

1:18:32Little Johnny's occupied. Come on, come together. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans.