Fraud, Fees and Fake Degrees! Where is the Allocation to Alternatives Headed? Albourne’s CEO, John Claisse, Explains their approach, Why Due Diligence Matters, and Where the Investment Flows are Secular, Not Cyclical.

24:24John Claisse:Because deviating from the cap-weighted benchmark can be very painful. But if you can bring a pure alpha source and couple those, That's actually been an area we've spent a lot of time on. It's very topical. Recently, some of the concentration coming from new entrants to many of these indices. I mean, it's generated a lot of return in the last month for index rebalancing strategies. But with SpaceX entering so many indices, but also for a lot of investors, some of these concentrations are a big concern, right? So, you know, concentrations in their private books that might be moving into their kind of public books.

24:59John Claisse:And, you know, we spent a lot of time talking to allocators about how they might hedge their SpaceX exposure, but also now thinking ahead with OpenAI and Anthropic and other exposures. And then on a look through basis, because you have that understanding of what's in their VC portfolios and how that's progressing. That's that's actually kind of for us very topical. Also very topical at the moment, because you reference benchmarks a few times. you know the VC benchmarks you know the first half of the year if you didn't have the exposure there's going to be a significant lag because Q1 probably kind of 2-3 % based on our estimates I know some other you know kind of stated numbers maybe even higher but based on our kind of primers indices so we have private market indices from the thousands of funds data that we have but on the VC side yes Q1 probably kind of 2-3 % and then 3-5 % of uplift from SpaceX alone in those indices in the first half of the year.

25:57John Claisse:So there's, you know, that's a concentration that impacts the private side, but also the public side. So just let's pause on that, because when we had our conversation last week, I was intrigued, you know, that SpaceX example, it's sitting there as a, now, what might be larger than expected position in a private portfolio. You're having that dialogue with the owner of that. How does that conversation evolve in terms of they've come to you for advice? Well, look, I mean, there's an element. We are not explicitly advising on the actual kind of like the hedging itself, but certainly the options of what people can do.

26:32John Claisse:Most important thing is understanding what you own and actually helping, you know, kind of investment teams, investment committees and stakeholders recognize that there's actually a big, if anything at the moment, I think there's quite a few governance concerns in the end because, you know, the FOMO of like, well, we didn't have exposure, we should be buying in versus we have these exposures. and how should we be handling them going forward? So just a reminder, we don't manage any money. We're not managing any for any clients, but also as a trusted partner, when we sit, we can be that sounding board to be able to kind of help them think through these situations.

27:07John Claisse:So that is an active dialogue right now with clients about the different options that they can employ. But clearly it's very expensive to hedge given the level of vol that you have. But there are a lot of entities out there that are kind of working with investors, helping them think through how to offlay some of that risk. Right. Well, we haven't, over six years of having these podcasts, talked much about due diligence, and most people would sort of go, well, okay, we can skip this part. But I've actually, I wrote down the three Fs. Okay. Fraud, fees, and fake degrees. I'd love to unpick some of those because there are bad actors always, skulking around every industry, particularly the financial services industry.

27:50And it's not that you are, you know, policing all of this, but just tell us a little bit about how you built the due diligence levers that you employ day in, day out.

28:00John Claisse:Great. Well, I love talking about due diligence. You know, at the end of the day, we, you know, we support, let's say, hundreds of investors to make informed investment decisions so they feel confident as they put money to work. You know, we do investment due diligence on thousands of funds every year. You know, our clients can access a platform with over 5000 investment due diligence reports across hedge funds, actually liquid alts as well, where we cover and private and private markets, but also the operational due diligence. So ODD. And it's interesting, you get compensated for investment risk, you're not compensated for the operational risk.

28:33John Claisse:And so we built the largest team in the industry in terms of doing operational diligence. And that team in 2025 did about 800 full ODD reviews on profit clients. It's a great proxy for the number of funds that our clients are allocating to putting fresh money to work on a given year. And that's that doesn't include I should say, open ended funds like hedge funds where we're doing ongoing monitoring, as it was another 500. So it's a huge kind of like breadth there. But that ODD, we're really evaluating the operational robustness of these firms, how safe is your capital in terms of the control environments that are present, the valuation controls, the, you know, kind of, it comes to data security, but there's so many things that are happening in, you know, from the point at which you decide to trade, you know, when you to, for those managers to be great stewards of capital.

29:28John Claisse:And so doing manager level ODD and fund level ODD and validating for our clients the quality relative to best practices. So we've been doing that for a long time. And look, fraud does happen, right? So just in the last year, a fund came to market, pitching to institutional investors, where we are certain that fund one did not exist. So you find an offering, a certificate of incorporation, that was certainly fraudulent. And then, look, very credible managers who just make mistakes. So, you know, on the fee side, we have a kind of a large business for many of the large institutional investors around the world where we help them understand exactly what they agreed to pay, what they did pay, and then whether there were any errors.

30:16John Claisse:And we've saved our clients tens of millions of dollars now in errors that we've helped them to recoup because we're validating thousands of line items of fund investments where there are errors. And often it's actually with the most sophisticated investors who have negotiated bespoke agreements. And when you unpick what's actually been kind of put in place, you know, the business can dream up, you know, bespoke terms. The kind of lawyers write it up and then someone screws it up down the line. And then so we go through and, you know, helping to validate. And so it's a way of kind of keeping the industry, you know, honest, but also, you know, protecting our clients' capital.

30:57John Claisse:And I think the other kind of was around fake degrees. I mean, I'm thinking, how is it possible in a world where almost everything is accessible? Well, because, you know, there's a lot of people who were hired quite some time ago. And, you know, best practice that you still do, ongoing kind of background checks of existing employees and refresh. But yeah, look, we, you know, we do background checks on thousands of individuals every year, you know, at the manager level, fund level, you know, key people. And yeah, that we've, you know, it's not uncommon to kind of find, I say uncommon meaning like, it's still, it's rare, but it does happen where people are loose with the truth, right?

31:39John Claisse:You know, in terms of, and then when you get to the point where someone gets called out, we've been sent documents where you can, we've could absolutely prove that this was pulled down from a, from a website where you can generate a fake diploma. So, yeah. Wow. Okay, so which nicely leads us on to technology, AI, and data. I guess at the highest first level, how are you finding AI's assisting you? Well, yeah, so AI for us, we've been benefiting from technology for the last 30 years. We've built all of our own integrated technology that supports our clients and our colleagues to do their work in a private cloud environment where we have our knowledge management system that feeds into a web-based and an app-based platform.

32:30John Claisse:So at the end of the day, AI is just the next iteration of this journey. We've had a machine learning team for now. It's close to the end of its 10th year, so almost a full decade, sponsoring PhDs that have been working in our office in Cyprus. It's our largest office. We have over 300 people there. And as part of our 80-strong development team, they've contributed massively to our workflow enhancements from a machine learning perspective. And then over the last several years with LLMs and generative AI, being able to kind of, you know, incorporate those into our business processes. I really like, so when I talk about how we adopt, you know, kind of AI into our business, I really like Ethan Mollick's model.

33:16John Claisse:He put out in a substack about a year ago, this sort of Venn diagram. So Ethan Mollick's a professor at Wharton. And yeah, it's sort of a three set Venn diagram with organizational leadership, labs and crowds. And I feel like you can also incorporate a fourth Venn diagram, which is your internal current IT. But the key point is that there's organizational, the tone from the top in terms of a vision of where we're going, that it's actually going to liberate folk from routine tasks so we can do more higher value-add work. But you empower your crowd, the average employee, the majority of employees with technology that helps them to do their jobs better.

33:56John Claisse:But you need an innovation hub, so a lab, which really thinks outside the box about how you can use these newer technologies to revolutionize what you can currently do, but also what you might be able to do as a business going forward. So our lab 1.0 was the machine learning team. Lab 2.0, about three years ago, we formed an AI task force, which was cross-functional. People had to apply to join it. There were already people in their spare time were doing a ton of experimentation. They joined that team. that was very successful for a couple of years of just driving innovation, onboarding different tools that we could all use.

34:34John Claisse:And now we have an AI support team that sits in between the machine learning team, that's Lab 3.0, and the task force or the working groups that sit within each investment function. So that AI support team is tasked with identifying any roadblocks and making sure that we work really closely, going back to the Venn diagram, not only with the business, but also with our CSO, with our CTO, to make sure that we, in a very prudent way, move forward so we can adopt best practices but also get access to new tools and new innovations. And also identify local maxima. One of the biggest challenges is that people, kind of maybe one function, discover a way to unlock, because the technology is changing so fast, and make sure that those local maxima propagate across functions, different investment functions, and if appropriate, get pulled back into the machine learning team to be rolled out in our private cloud implementation.

35:29John Claisse:And we actually have a fourth lab now, which is all the folk who at the weekends are running their open claw on different kind of Apple minis and then their gaming laptops, bringing those folk in so that we actually subsidize some of their innovation that they can do in a sandboxed environment in addition to the work we've been doing. So tell me how that's changing who you hire, where you hire them from and what you want to see. Well, it's early on that stage. We hire a lot of people into our technology team who have the background. The reality is this is a behavior change for everyone in the firm.

36:12John Claisse:At this stage, from a talent management perspective, this is really taking everyone on the firm on a journey rather than necessarily kind of at this stage hiring a different type of person. It's really a case of understanding where are different people. I'm a big believer in the kind of the, if you think about the kind of innovation curve, we've got a number of folks who are definitely kind of early adopters and innovators, but kind of who are the early majority and bringing people from late majority into early majority internally through training. Because we all need to be on that journey of using, being able to kind of create agents and apps and use them and use ones that are deployed across the firm.

36:54John Claisse:And that's really, so at the moment, That's actually kind of the primary point within talent management is actually kind of bringing people on that kind of that comfort level of feeling really empowered by this new technology rather than frightened of it. And as you scrutinize the external environment, what observations do you have about how fund managers and allocators are implementing AI? Well, look, we have very kind of strong opinions, but also great data in that space. and so on the on the allocator side we're benefiting from all the work we've done on you know fund managers and so for fund managers for the last 25 plus years we've done due diligence on their kind of IT stack and you know we actually had a report back in the day we used to have 12 different core reports that all went into our due diligence we combined them all into one ODD main report realized it was probably easier to kind of understand if you you know It does what it says on the tin.

37:52John Claisse:But within that, we've been doing due diligence on IT for 25 plus years. But over the last three years, we've actually done an additional survey of managers of their AI adoption. So as the generative AI kind of wave was sweeping through, we did that in Q3 of 23, 24, and 25. And so kind of had results at the end of last year for three years in a row. and actually that survey had about almost nine trillion in alternative assets across 300 managers and so clearly like the adoption you know it's been very significant and so there's a lot of kind of observations we could make there but what we've realized is it was kind of directionally accurate in the sense that it's primarily in investment research it's impacting coding all the things you might have expected but for individual managers it's hard to really kind to scrutinize where they are because it's often when you do a survey, it's being done by the IR teams rather than they're kind of as part of a kind of, you know, it's not the CSO or CTO necessarily that's completing that survey.

38:55John Claisse:Now, since around Thanksgiving, we did an update to our operational due diligence questionnaire, or ODDQ, there's 14 detailed questions. And now we're asking that alongside potentially a client allocating 100 million or hundreds of millions of dollars to a manager. So we're getting very robust responses. And in the first six months, over 500 managers, or sorry, in the first six months, over 500 funds have completed that questionnaire. And so we're getting really robust data now in terms of, you know, exactly the governance they have in place, the due diligence they're doing or third party vendors, which vendors they're using, and how it's impacting different functions within those firms.

39:36John Claisse:And so we're really excited. Actually, the week before your summit in the fall, we have our global client event, be able to provide a lot more insights on that data. And what's interesting is because the world is moving so fast, you know, month to month, like you just see kind of these changes. And we do so much due diligence every month. I mean, in January of this year, it was just shy of 100 due diligence commissions, like full ODD new reviews. So each of those has this data. And we were able to do like longitudinally how is that changing over time? And it's rapid and widespread. You also asked about allocators.

40:17John Claisse:So coming back around, it's informing how we support allocators because they can also answer those questions. Yes, yes, yes. And they are, in most cases, almost a little bit like you might expect. Well, we don't think we're as far ahead as the funds. But actually, just knowing on those 14 different dimensions where they sit relative to peers and also being able to provide feedback on a confidential basis to those clients to say, well, look, this is where you currently sit relative to peers, and these are the areas where it could have the biggest impact and how you might approach making changes in those areas.

40:51John Claisse:We've just been rolling that out. We did a summit in New York in April. We had about 60 investors who completed the survey then, and we've done it continuing now. Every call I have with clients, they do the survey, then we can bribe them back this sort of, you know, preliminary score of where they sit. And that's really helping to unblock. Lots of different investors are contaminated by where they sit within an organization. Like a Health Air group that I spoke to recently, you know, I heard this many times, like HIPAA in the US, some of the data protection issues contaminates how they can use their technology.

41:27John Claisse:You know, and it's true for some government entities. They're not in the regular Azure. They're in the government version of Azure. That delays the rollout of certain tools within Microsoft Suite and Copilot. And so if we can support them in how to navigate to optimize for what they do have available, we think we can add value there. Because otherwise you would think that your own practice is at risk from disintermediation because armed with these tools, others can carry out DD. Well, this is, at the end of the day, we've had a human in the loop from day one, right? And at the end of the day, we're always gathering data, processing data, and being that extension of staff.

42:07John Claisse:So absolutely, you can view AI as an opportunity or a threat. And so we have, for the last decade, realized you have to be on the front foot. We are a data business and an insight business, and we have to have the best data, and then we have to be able to develop insights that support our clients. We think it's critical to have an expert in every loop, an expert in the lead, to be able to make sure that if you are an allocator who works with any kind of third party that brings additional kind of perspective, the models need to be scrutinized. It's not magic. There's an element here of, and it's forward-looking.

42:49John Claisse:Investing, the past gives you a lot of data, but on a forward-looking basis, being able to kind of analyze that. And so to be that extension of staff, we still feel very confident, you know, in terms of the place where we sit because we don't manage money. We're a trusted partner with LPs and with GPs, but have that insight. We're just going to be made more efficient to be able to do more to empower LPs going forward. And we started with a conversation about benchmarks, and we can have a whole separate interview about it. But as you are evaluated by your clients, how would they typically judge you?

43:23John Claisse:Well, yeah, I mean, it's a great question. We don't have a track record, right, because we don't have a product. So we live and die every month by the value that we're on fixed retainers with our clients. And so from that perspective, you know, we are publishing research on a timely basis that's accurate. That's, you know, the breadth of our coverage across the industry. they can see day in, day out whether we're delivering. And we measure internally the quality of our analysis, our ratings. We're regular with the SEC, so we have to be cautious about what we say publicly or other than on a reverse inquiry.

44:01John Claisse:But we are proud of our track record internally that we can measure. And that's been, as we go forward, And I mentioned before, there's a lot of other kind of areas where, like Simon used to say, kind of, you know, we're not afraid to grab the nettles, do things that, you know, the tricky work that needs someone to kind of, you know, to dig in. And, you know, we live and die by process. I talked about nettles, right? So like grasping sort of the nettles. You know, we do hard things. and there are these areas where you know investors if you want to retain talent in an off-the-run capital city in the United States to do back office work or other kind of legal document diligence that can be challenging right so being able to kind of outsource that to us a bit like the fees due diligence that we do this is painstaking work and you need to be an expert in these fee structures to catch these errors and so these are areas where you know a track record ultimately speaks for itself in the sense that we've delivered for clients more value than we've charged.

45:04John Claisse:Got it. So let's look forward in the world of investing. One of the things that surprised me when we had our conversation was you said you're getting a lot of interest around digital assets from clients. Just explain what and why you think you're seeing this. Yeah, so So it's not a lot of dollars being put to work, just to be clear. But it's interesting with digital assets, if you go back to kind of sort of that 2018, 2019 timeframe, almost every client had a digital asset working group internally. And at the end of 2022, almost every client shut down their digital asset working group because of FTX.

45:48John Claisse:And so we had this sort of like, you know, abrupt halt to the progress there. But at that point in time, most investors were really just on an educational journey. Fast forward, you know, we have the Trump administration that's now kind of 18 months into this term. And that's been a strong tailwind for beta, you know, around, you know, not necessarily in the very recent past, but for flows into, you know, Bitcoin ETFs and the like, but it actually hasn't really supported material increase in liquidity in the space and institutional allocations. But we're starting to really kind of see a lot more interest in the space, sovereign wealth funds, making allocations.

46:36John Claisse:They can't get the capacity they might need to move the needle, but it's, I would say, education, putting money to work to really kind of support the ecosystem and endowments foundations. Again, I wouldn't say that kind of all endowments foundations or family offices are necessarily putting a lot of money to work, but it's an area that we're starting to see a lot more interest. And I think it's because there's a recognition that this is an area that will continue to grow. And we've met with hundreds of managers, done due diligence on dozens. The challenge over this timeframe is that many of those have not been able to really reach critical mass.

47:15John Claisse:And so a lot of funds have not necessarily outright failed, but they have returned capital and been absorbed into some of the platforms, which, you know, while it's been a bit more challenging kind of capital raising environment. But at this stage, we're definitely seeing, as I say, interest from some sovereigns, endowments, foundations, family offices that are renewed interest. They're kind of their digital asset working groups. They're kind of definitely live and well and really working with us. We've done a lot of work over the years in this space. And I think, you know, provided a lot of thought leadership working with industry bodies like, you know, Amer and others.

47:56John Claisse:helping them to write the papers that are out there now, thinking about where the industry is going as it relates to digital assets. Okay, well, maybe I need to read one of those papers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I recommend the most recent AIMA. Okay. Staying with where is the investment part going, over the next three to five years, where might we see bigger changes in the investing world? I think the retailization is a theme that is not about to kind of go away. I think the wealth transfer, particularly in the US, you hear it talked about all the time, and the ability for folk to allocate. Putting retail up to one side, would you say that in the next five years, the institutional allocations to alternatives will be up or down?

48:47John Claisse:I think in aggregate, they will likely continue to increase. Right. We talk so much sitting here in the West about our markets and obviously the dominance of the US impacts that conversation. And there's this huge Asian GDP. And I'd love to understand what you are seeing in terms of what Asian institutional investors are thinking. and of course the flip side of that is having had these big underweights to Asia Western investors thoughts on Asia. We have a large on the ground presence as a team in Asia you know we've just celebrated and now in Singapore Hong Kong and Tokyo 20 year anniversaries for each of those offices and we do work with a lot of institutional investors and family offices in the region and they recognize the significant opportunities in terms of alpha generation from strategies present there, the dispersion and opportunities in many different markets.

49:46John Claisse:Looking from the US, there's definitely been kind of a pullback for several years now on allocation to Asia and a sort of a China contamination. So when they kind of think about the kind of the broader kind of allocation to Asia pulling back. And that said, in the last six to nine months, our team on the ground there have seen a lot more visits from U.S. institutions, particularly the endowments and foundations, who have large allocations to Asia and so present at meetings. but having said that just take Texas as an example they have legislation that really kind of explicitly kind of means they have to carve out any China exposure from their indices and therefore their underlying managers and so it's a challenge for some groups they can't actually visit Hong Kong or mainland China so from that perspective we advise a lot of investors also in the Middle East and they have never wavered in their support for pan-Asia exposure.

50:49John Claisse:But we cover the full investment landscape in Asia and South Asia and India. So India has certainly benefited from a pickup inflows over the last three plus years. Well, China, there was bipartisan concerns about China's position globally in spite of its such significant GDP. And in that investment silo of money going to Asia, which of the possible sub-asset classes, real estate, alternatives, private debt, private equity, do you think is likely to benefit most from flows? I mean, in terms of the, there's been a lot in liquid markets already, you know, it's, you know, Japan activism and other kind of areas there now, you know, Korean activism is an emerging area that we think is interesting.

51:46John Claisse:On the private side, locally, there's a lot of real estate interest across investors in the region. And more broadly, there's a vibrant private equity space there that has generated consistently some great returns. Currency can be an issue for US investors when you look at their experience over time. So that's actually been kind of probably one of the areas of concern for international investors is some of the currency impact. Do you find you are asked often to opine on currency? I ask that question because, you know, people love to talk about the dollar being the reserve currency. Well, it isn't.

52:28It happens to be the, you know, the currency of, you know, use and choice. But the erosion of purchasing power is ever, you know, is ever present. Hence the move to, you know, to real assets of, you know, being so important. And yet how you measure your performance in terms of your currency, you know, reference, you know, flatters or deceives. Do you get asked this much? Do you do much work on it?

52:49John Claisse:Well, I mean, I'd say I've been based in the US for the last 23 years and trying to kind of like almost mitigate some of those kind of considerations. But here in Europe, absolutely. When we're working with clients, thinking about currency is a consideration in terms of how they think about their allocations. So time to put you really on the spot here, John. Some closing rapid fire questions. when you've had them or had one how have you dealt with setbacks well um probably cliche to say look i view them as opportunities right you know at the end of the day you learn from from failures we are big believers in kind of a post-mortem about anything that we try we have a fixed fee business model we have to we it makes you restless as a business and so um we therefore kind of are constantly trying to kind of ensure that we remain relevant and and as a result we've tried a lot of things, some things we thought would have more impact or more adoption across clients.

53:41John Claisse:And if they don't, we move on. And I like to fail quickly. But but fortunately, as evidenced by, you know, being here today, and the growth we've had, you know, a lot of ideas have have resonated. And we've been fortunate. What's your most important daily habit? Oh, I do a gratitude journal every morning and every night, which I really find very helpful. And I also listen to a lot of audiobooks. And so that is kind of, you know, I found as someone who is a very slow reader, like exceptionally slow, audiobooks have been transformative for me, and just in terms of bringing more perspectives.

54:25Advice for young people thinking about joining our business?

54:30John Claisse:Well, I think if they're listening to this podcast, then they're doing something right, which is like ultimately trying to expose yourself to as many different perspectives. I think that's probably the biggest challenge for this industry is that people think about finance and don't recognize the breadth of roles and jobs that can exist and in different parts of the financial ecosystem. It's such a vital part of the fabric of the global economy but also just our lives. and so there's so many fantastic roles that someone could have and i think as a young person you don't often see that from the outside what book would you recommend to uh listeners that you've read in the last year that you that stayed with you oh um well my top rated for the year so far uh well equal top rate but one on finances i thought 1929 by andrew ross talking was awesome and I really enjoyed that.

55:27John Claisse:And then one that's not kind of finance-linked, The Science of Second Chances, which was kind of recently published, which really digs into providing economic analysis to the criminal justice system or criminal injustice system and understanding how you can actually prove what works and what doesn't work. We'll put it in our show notes. In fact, at the Money Makes Allocated Summit this October that you kindly mentioned, we're going to have one session which will be the best book you haven't read and we've got Simon Seabag Montefiore on his upcoming book, The Crucible on the Middle East. We have Robin Wigglesworth of the FT who's written this book on about the world of bonds, which I think is going to be much more interesting than it sounds.

56:04John Claisse:Theo Baker's book, How to Rule the World, which just came out like in the last month or two about Stanford and his expose on venture capital, I thought was great as well. So that would be another one to add to your list. Great. So last two questions. If you could only make one investment decision for the next five years, what would it be? all born I'm all chips in I've got to say because I'm bullish on alternatives and I'm bullish on kind of our ability to support allocators I look at the end of the day we've just done an EOT transaction so buying out Simon, Guy Sam and two retirees so we ensure that we're 100 % employee owned and as it stands right now our business model won't change as a result and so look I'm second largest shareholder but we are now just couldn't be more incentivized to deliver for our clients and our colleagues.

56:56John Claisse:And so, yeah, I'm all chips in. What's the question that you typically aren't asked, business or non-business? Why does being non-discretionary matter so much to us? And I think it's because being trusted and having this position means that you have so much freedom, right? As soon as you take$1 of discretionary capital, you become an asset manager. And so by not doing that, even though we've had countless kind of opportunities to kind of to run money, the reality is it's just so liberating to know that you only have one purpose, to serve our clients, and we never compete with them, never compete with the managers.

57:46John Claisse:The managers know that. So, John, it's been really good to have this conversation today. As I said, Allborn has been sort of there on my map for as long as I can remember. And congratulations to all of you on continuing to build out this business. If I were to take maybe three conclusions, we do forget. But you absolutely point out hedge funds are a business model, not an asset allocation. And that is often confused. And I do sit on investment committees where that conversation comes up. Number two is that you are very convinced that retail flows into the private asset world. It's secular. And I think that you are, you know, if when I held your feet to the fire, you think that institutional allocations overall continue to rise as well.

58:36So you're making quite a, you know, a rosy prognosis about fund flows, which might be very different from investment outcomes. and finally you've given us two book recommendations and The Science of the Second Chance will feature in our show notes because it looks like quite an interesting and different book so it's been great having you here today thank you so much

58:58John Claisse:I really enjoyed it and great to have this opportunity thank you