Build a Business Around Your Ideal Life (Not the Other Way Around)

0:00If you don't take advantage of the good things about being your own boss, then you're kind of left with just a lot of hard work. Welcome to another episode of Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and building a business. I'm your host, Shuang Esther Shan. Have you ever felt like the workplace just wasn't built for you? That's what Becca Stern thought when she was a single mom, balancing childcare and a job all in a new country. So she and her sister, Jess Stern, decided to build a workplace that worked for them. They started Mustermade, a company that makes colorful lockers for home storage.

0:40And they did it while living across the globe from each other. Becca is based in Australia and Jess is based in the UK, but they're both here with us today to chat about how Mustermade became a multi-million dollar business and remains a family affair. Thanks so much for making the time, Becca and Jess. I love that intro. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you. So great to have you both here with us. Becca, I would love to start with you to hear what was happening in your life when you wanted to start Muster Made. And what were you looking for in terms of creating the ideal workplace? When Jess and I first started talking about mustard, I mean, we had no idea that it was going to turn out the way that it did.

1:27But what I did know was that I needed a big change in my life. And so did Jess. So I had worked in very small business. I had run local markets and kind of had an Etsy store selling jewelry and things like that. So I was really thinking very small and realized that if I wanted to get out of the day to day producing my products, that I needed something that was scalable. And that was so exciting to me. I think realizing that what I loved was actually business as opposed to making products, which is kind of where I began originally. So that was all really important stuff that we had to get right.

2:05And then in terms of the workplace, it was really about being able to give ourselves the flexibility that we couldn't find elsewhere. So we wanted to be able to, you know, leave work when we wanted to and travel when we wanted to and set our own business up with our values at the core and not have to kind of bend to fit somebody else's ideals. So yeah, all those things really shaped the beginning of Master Journey. And Jess, when you were hearing about this idea, vintage looking lockers and creating your ideal workplace, what kind of structure were you thinking of creating that's more supportive of employees and their families?

2:49And what made you want to jump on board? So my background was a really much more corporate background. I was a fashion buyer for 10 years, so gone up the ladder in the corporate world, always striving to get to the next promotion or the next big shop that I wanted to work for. And it was a very different life. And I came pretty tired with this journey. After 10 years, I kind of realized that actually I didn't want to get to the top. The people that were in front of me, I didn't aspire to be. I didn't aspire to have that life. The hours that we were working, the constant change and the constant rabbit wheel on the journey of fashion that just wasn't aligning with who I was.

3:34So the idea of Mustard was very much to work with my sister. It was always about bringing us closer and creating that life for us. I think very much at the beginning it was being able to fly across the world and not doing it within a two-week time limit because that was the only time of holiday that I could get off work but also because it gave us that flexibility to have a life outside of work and not just have this nine-to-five aspect that especially living in London in a corporate world was very much how I was living. And Mustard has very much given me that in the five years that we've been running it, as well as our team.

4:15And it's been a really big joy to kind of go through those changes and tailor to each member of our team in a slightly different way, but also still staying really collaborative as well. So I know this started as a personal desire of creating a more flexible workplace, but talk to us about the advantages you've seen within the company as well. I think one of the biggest pleasures that we've had is employing mums and seeing them going through that process that I think that every parent really does after they have children of rebuilding their confidence and growing into themselves again after you've kind of reset and your whole life has changed.

4:55And so I think being able to offer the flexibility to maybe start with smaller hours or working part-time and then build up from there and just watching their confidence and skills grow as our business grows as well. And I think that's exactly what I wish someone had done for me. And nobody did, you know, so I felt like I had to make that for myself. And so being able to, to offer that to other parents has been amazing. And the same with our husbands as well, who now work for Mustard, even seeing them balancing their role as parents and at work, that's something that they never would have got if they had both stayed in their corporate jobs as well.

5:32So yeah, it works, you know, for men and women. You know, it's something that we talk about a lot, but it takes time, I think, to really see the benefit of that. It's not kind of immediate, but over the years, yeah, you really get to see people shine in a way that they couldn't have if they weren't given that opportunity in the first place. I definitely believe it's also really great for attracting and retaining talent and also giving them the flexibility to find the time of the day where they're most productive or most creative. So that's really great to hear. I would love to also understand the challenge of the time zones.

6:11We mentioned how Becca, you're based in Australia and Jess, you're based in the UK. You were literally on two sides of the globe. How did you manage scheduling and figuring out the logistics of your workflows? It's very much still our biggest challenge. We come across issues daily, but from the very beginning I had a long commute when I was still working in my fashion job and Becca would call me on my train to work which was an hour and a half and we would talk all things mustard so I was still very much employed but in the hour and a half in the morning we would talk about mustard and we would make it work and then the next day she would go and implement all the things that we talked about and then the next day we'd talk about more things and and so forth and that's how we started and that's kind of how we've continued to go there's definitely lots of bending in terms of working hours right now in Australia it kind of works a little better to have meetings for them to have them in their evenings and us in our mornings and that changes depending on the time zones but we try to put everything down on the clouds we use softwares like google drive and Trello and really try and explain things really clearly so that someone on the other side of the world at a different time of day will be able to understand a brief or be able to understand where something is up to.

7:34And it's definitely something we continue to work on, but we're getting better at it. Sounds like you really found a way to make things more accessible for everyone on the team and also making it easy to be collaborative. I think it's also interesting being based in two different ends of the world is that you also had access to two different markets. So talk to us how you approach growing in these different markets and how did you plan to expand while you're looking at both Australia and the UK? Yeah, I think for us, it was a no brainer. it was obvious from the start that if we could do it on one side of the world, it logically should have been possible to do it on the other side of the world too.

8:18Being two different markets that we knew really well and were physically in. With that, of course, there were challenges. You know, you assume you can copy and paste it, but there were certainly things that we learned along the way that we had to tweak for each region. Having the two of us being able to lead our teams on opposite sides of the world has enabled us to grow at a speed that we wouldn't have otherwise. And I don't know that we would have been so brave to expand into different regions quite as fast if we weren't there. But certainly being able to do it on two meant that we had the courage to then do it in the US and EU because we'd kind of learned all the things the hard way.

9:00Pretty much six months in was when we had two regions to cover. So it's also that sort of economy of scale. You know, a lot of our customer service questions, there are some things that will change from region to region, but most things are pretty much the same. And although, you know, people might have a slightly different cultural response to things, most people are pretty much the same and they want the same things. They want to be treated well and listened to and things like that. So I think so much of what we've learned has been transferable no matter where it is in the world. And it's also been with all the challenges that That's the economy and the pandemic throughout us.

9:37Having those different regions has really helped us weather those storms. As one region went down, we had the others to make up for it. And our sales growth has really benefited from taking those risks and learning those hard lessons. For founders in similar shoes, they are entering different markets. Talk to us about some of those tactile advice you would offer. Did you look for local suppliers or local manufacturers, local fulfillment centers? What was the process that made sense to actually be in different markets? So something that we've always done is kept with the same manufacturer. For us, the consistency with our products has been really key in our success.

10:19Keeping that quality, keeping all of the way that a product is made the same is very much at the heart of what we do. so for us it was about finding 3PL warehouses in each region initially we found a really great one in Australia which we're still with today in the UK we went on a similar journey we've now been through a few warehouses but we're on a really good path at the moment and then we managed to take this UK one and actually use the same company in Europe and in America so we're actually working with the same company in three of our regions at the moment and there's definitely benefits to that again economies of scale understanding our products which they look quite simple but they have their quirks being able to understand the size of them and the career dynamics because they're two meters long and they're very heavy so I think that that was like a really good lesson at this journey that we were able to go on to be able to expand a little faster and have again have the courage to be able to do that.

11:20In terms of our customers, we outreach with wholesalers. So we're on a real big drive at the moment in the US to really get some great wholesalers on board, which we're excited about. So I think for us, it's really about getting our products in stores so people can see them in real life, see the quality, see how beautiful they are, see the colours and really fall in love with them, just like so many other people around the world has. But as Becca said before, it's about repeating this process, which for us, there's a formula and we really feel like it works. So you have your two teams set up in Australia and the UK, and you found your ideal supplier.

12:00How did you go about marketing Mustard? And I understand you took an approach that's often different for the Founders Beat interview. You actually started with Wholesale First. So when we launched Mustard, we had this concept in mind that we had this product that people weren't looking for. They didn't know they wanted lockers until they found us. Even our friends and family were a bit confused at the start. So it was really this question of how are we going to get people to fall in love with lockers when they haven't searched it in Google? They're not asking for lockers. And the way that we overcame that was by launching wholesale first.

12:41So we needed to get these products out there. And the response that we always get now is that they're so much better in real life. So that strategy really worked because people got to walk into their favorite store and, you know, maybe they're looking for a gift for their friends or something like that. And they see this product that they weren't expecting and, you know, have that conversation, they get to touch and feel it, they get to picture it in their home. So that's why I think the wholesale was really important for us to get off the ground and to start building a name for ourselves. So when we first launched, we did it in Sydney, which is a couple of hours from where I live at this trade show that I had my heart set on.

13:22We actually didn't even have a business registered at the time. We were on an absolute shoestring. We had a batch of samples, one of each product, that was it. And enough kind of order forms and brochures to make it look like we had this kind of whole framework set up. We had our website kind of loosely so you could go on it and we had a bit of a teaser campaign on Instagram. Beyond that, there wasn't really a whole lot, except a lot of passion and ideas and hope for the potential of this business. The two of us with two big smiley faces dressed in colourful clothing, like, you know, I think we underestimate the power of us too.

14:03Yeah we definitely went in you know with high energy and high hopes and we put these products out there so we hadn't even ordered any products from a manufacturer at this point we just had those first batch of samples and we set ourselves the target of making nine orders and in terms of the kind of scale that we were aiming for we thought if we could sell enough to fill half of a 20-foot container, then this business would financially make sense. And it would get us off the ground without being in loads of debt from the start. After the four days, we actually got those nine orders on the first day.

14:40And then we had another three days of taking orders. And by the end of it, we were able to order two 40-foot HQs, so the extra tall containers from our manufacturer. So over four times what we had anticipated. And those products arrived a few months later. And from then wholesale has always been such a core part of what we do. And it's really that opportunity for people to discover us. It's about brand alignment. It's about sitting on the shelf or on the website of these incredible stores that have similar values to us and showcase products that we want and we desire as well. And Yeah, it's really set us up, again, similar to when we talked about having these different regions, having wholesale and direct to consumer.

15:27It means you've got these two levers to pull and you can balance that differently at different times. And with something, you know, as unexpected as the pandemic, that really helped to get us through that and still come out profitable. And it sounds like wholesale is such a great starting point because it was almost like a marketing tool where retailers were able to showcase the products for you. How did you then translate showcasing the products online to make sure that whoever is visiting your online store could get as close as possible to how the items will look, even though we all know that the items look better in person?

16:08That is such a great question. And we've actually spent a very big amount of time recently reworking our product pages to tell that story. So we went through a whole kind of couple of workshops together as a team to really try and understand what our customers are loving about our products that they are not understanding through our website. and then we built out a really long detailed and custom product page where we go through all the benefits but also all the kind of emotional things like we're a female founded business and we believe in good customer service and all of those things so it's kind of how do we exactly as you said make them have that experience as close as possible to seeing it in real life and communicate that beautifully, clearly, colourfully.

17:01So it's been really exciting to roll that out throughout our Shopify stores. And then things like taking advantage of our blog and our about page and really customising that and making sure that people know that we really do care, we really are what we say we are.

17:21That we're building something bigger than just a retailer of lockers. we have a big vision and we want to share that and we want to have a positive impact. And yes, I think all of those things really, that's who we are. And we just want to get it out there at every touch point. Very interesting to hear that wholesale was a foundation of marketing for you. And I'm very excited to chat more about your shipping and logistics. I'm chatting with Jess and Becca Stern, co-founders of Muster Made. By the way, while you're listening to this podcast, make sure to give Shopify Masters a follow or subscribe.

17:59And you can also let us know your thoughts by leaving a review. I wanted to ask you about the product itself, these beautiful vintage inspired lockers. They are relatively big once you assemble them, they might be quite heavy. So how did you go about figuring out the best, most efficient way to ship these items and also making it efficient financially as well. Yeah, it's been a really big part of our business. I would say for most entrepreneurs and most creative business owners, you don't start thinking, geez, I really want to spend loads of time thinking about shipping and talking to couriers and worried about products that have been damaged or lost.

18:44It's very easy to overlook that stuff. But I think we've kind of learned to feel pretty passionate about it and to put loads of energy into it and just treat it like any other problem that needs solving. And so from the very kind of beginning before we had our products actually made, we went around asking anyone that we could think of that sold big products that we had some connection to. So a friend of a friend or a shop nearby, or there was some guy in my city who imports loads of containers of stuff and kind of sells it off cheap. He was one of the only people I knew who had a whole load of containers in a warehouse.

19:23So I walked up, you know, one day and just sat with him and asked him all these questions. And so I think that's the first thing is just to try and learn as much as you can, assuming that most people don't come from a background where they happen to already know that stuff. There is a lot to learn. And I would say that every product has its unique challenges with it. So ours, yeah, they come flat pack, but they can weigh a lot. They're very big, they're very heavy, but we are also using pretty standard couriers as opposed to specialist furniture ones. So we kind of sit right on the edge of what most couriers will actually allow us to deliver.

20:00And that's because we want to offer the best value and we want it to be fast and predictable and not super custom as well, because that creates a whole load more work for both you and the customer. So we want it to be just like you're ordering anything else off the Internet. you click the button and it shows up as fast as possible so that's what the careers are really nailed we're just sitting right at the edge and that's where our challenge is and then I would say that from practical steps that we took to understand this process as the best we could things like sending your own product to yourself and sending it to friends maybe you have friends in another country if you're trying out a different region so when we launched in the US we actually got in touch with a whole handful of customers who had been asking us when we were going to start selling in the US.

20:51And we wrote to them and said, we're getting ready. Could we send you a free product? And in return, we asked for photographs of how it arrived and copies of the emails or any other pieces of paper. What gets stuck on the boxes? What does it look like? Was it enjoyable? Did they dump it outside your house or did they help you through the door? So I think, yeah, we had a real kind of test, test, test policy. It was like before we leap in, just practice as much as you can. And the more knowledge you can gain, the more you're going to be able to help your customers. I love that tip about sending the products and also actually being a receiver, having that customer journey so you can fully understand how an item would arrive.

21:35I know that there has been some crazy stories and crazy experiences that you've gone through while expanding to the U.S. and also dealing with a global supply chain. Talk to us about some of those experiences and what you've learned from them. I think we've had everything thrown at us when it comes to boats and sea freight. We've had fires on our container ships. We've been involved in the Suez Canal where everything got stuck. We had four containers on the boat behind the one that got stuck. We've had COVID on boats. We've had strikes. We've had tornadoes. Sandstorms. months? Yeah, I feel like everything that could be possible has happened.

22:25Fingers crossed there isn't one happening anytime soon, but we're able to learn from it and we take a big deep breath and we continue and we find a solution if we need to find a solution or we communicate to our customers if our customers are waiting for something to arrive. Something that we learned really early on actually, probably about two years in, was that pre-orders were a little bit scary to us. We were promising products to customers that we didn't have yet. They were hopefully on the water, but then the boat got COVID. So then what do we do? And it's delayed by two weeks because they're in quarantine.

23:01And to tell that customer or customers that it's going to be delayed is upsetting and it's a customer service issue. And, you know, you could be contacting hundreds of customers at once. So the admin alongside it is really added to it. So something that we stopped doing after COVID was doing pre-orders. And we make sure that we're only selling products that we have the stock of and it is sitting in our warehouse currently. And that has been a real change in our dynamic. And obviously it affected our cashflow as well. And it's working so much better for us now. It means that we're not making promises to our customers when we don't actually have something or we don't have a firm idea of when it's going to arrive.

23:41For previous episodes where we talked to other founders, they found pre-orders was a really great way to actually ensure that they do have that cashflow to actually pay the manufacturers to make the items. But it sounds like you've been able to change the way the business is operating and actually be able to have everything in stock so that it can reach the customer when they order it. So you've gone through all the shipping and logistic challenges. The product finally reaches your customer, but this might be actually the most frustrating part. They have to put the locker together. So how do you make sure the instructions are clear and it's actually a fun experience for them?

24:24Yeah, it's definitely been something that I've loved. I've really enjoyed this journey. It's such an opportunity to constantly improve because you're always getting feedback from customers. In the early days, we were doing all the customer service, so we knew exactly which parts people were getting stuck on. So then the challenge with each production run was how to try and either make that step clearer, or if possible, even take that step out altogether. So one really nice example of that. So the lot kind of turns and it goes into a little hole. And in our first lot of production, there was one hole on one side, and we kept getting this feedback from customers that they'd got to the end and there was no hole.

25:06And that was because they had put the two sides, the left side had been on the right and the right side was on the left. And you only realize that at the very last moment when you go to lock it and it doesn't lock. So the solution to that was, you know, it sounds really obvious now. It took a while to get to, but was just to put the hole on both sides. So there is no wrong side. There's no right side. You can't possibly make a mistake. And that whole problem was no longer a problem. So I think it's just really staying open and listening to your customer feedback, not assuming that, you know, you're going to get it right first time as well.

25:43And sometimes that can be disheartening and you have to kind of go back to the drawing board and reinvent your instructions once again. So at the moment, I think we're on our third iteration of our instructions and our instruction videos. We recently put those on our website. Yeah, the customer service issues have gone down significantly because the videos are so much clearer. We know exactly which parts people need a little bit of clarity on. And it's been so beneficial for our business to really invest in that. And I think the fact that we love Flatpak, we love DIY, that really shines through.

26:18We want it to be a positive, fun, happy experience, and as few screws as possible. Throughout our process of putting the show together, I really enjoyed chatting with the both of you and getting a sense of your dynamics, which I think some listeners might find hard to believe that working with your family, your sibling can lead to a company and a work environment that both of you enjoy. How has your relationship changed over the years? And how do you make the personal and professional relationship work together? Yeah, I mean, we still very much love each other. She's still my big sister, although I'm slightly taller.

26:57but I think something that we've really learned is that we're both very different we have lots of similarities and definitely people see that in us but we notice the differences more and so being able to stay in our differences and in our own kind of categories within the business has helped us to grow individually but also help the business to be where it is today and so I kind of focus more on the production and the behind the scenes on wholesale partners. Becca is the marketing and the creative and kind of everything you see outwardly. And we very much come together to have conversations and I'll have my opinion and she'll have hers.

27:37And they're both, we'll take each other's opinion for sure. But sometimes we won't and that's okay. So I think it's about kind of staying in our own lanes, but doing that side by side. And that's really important. It really helps that there is half the world between us as well. So we get these really, really big chunks of time together and it's quite intense. And then we go off and have this kind of all of space as well. So I think that's, you know, it's kind of novel when we're together and we really enjoy it, but we don't necessarily have to sit next to each other all day at work. Yeah, collaborative time together and also focus time separately to look after the different areas of business.