Build a Cult Following Around Your Product

0:00And Miley Cyrus said, you need to start a business. These are the cutest phone cases ever. And I looked at her and I said, Miley, we'll have a website by tomorrow. Hello, welcome to Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and building a business. I'm Shuang Esther Shan. Most of us can agree that we use our phones more than any other device. So having a case on them isn't just for protection. It's also a sense of self-expression. Wallflower cases have been creating unique and eye-catching tech accessories for the last decade that are loved by celebrities and a strong cult following. Dave and Michelle Carlson, along with daughters Devin and Sydney, are the founders and family behind Wallflower.

0:48Today, we are chatting with Dave on his self-made career path, from not being able to afford college to becoming a creative director, starting his own marketing firms, and scaling wallflower from a homemade DIY project into a profitable business with close to 70 employees. Dave, welcome to the show. Absolutely. Happy to be here. So I want to start at the beginning of your career, which is so interesting because you couldn't afford to go to college like most of your classmates, but you found your own source of education by working at a screen printing business. And within six years, you got to the position of creative director.

1:35Can you share advice for navigation within a company? At that time, I was young and I started at 18. So it kind of like I was able to work there for six years. So I kind of like grew into my early 20s. And when you're at that age, at that time, I was so open to any advice from any of my managers and anyone that I worked with. I was like the young kid walking around the company asking, you know, how do you do that? How did you learn how to do that? I want to learn how to do that. How can I get into that department? or how can I learn that skill within the company? I had such amazing managers and coworkers that everyone was just so happy to share their knowledge, which helped me grow and helped me learn hands-on, basically.

2:30So I think it's super important to always ask people that you're working with or within companies, if you see an area that you want to learn and grow, I would definitely ask and just keep asking because everyone's willing to share their information. Another interesting point was you weren't on a creative track. It was an entry-level job that you had, but you knew from the start that being on the creative side was something you wanted. How did you go about speaking to people who are older, who are owning the company to say, hey, I want to end up as a creative director in this other stream of the business?

3:10Yeah, so I was an artist. I was drawing a lot. I was just exploring my creative talents. I realized they had an art department. There was an art director, a creative director there. And I'm like, that's what I want. And so I knew I had to learn the ropes, as they say, in order to get there. So I kind of had to learn a lot of non-creative techniques within their business. So it was a screen printing business. So I had to learn how to print on fabric. I had to learn how to mix ink colors and I had to learn how to make screens. So it was a process that, yes, it wasn't creative, but I knew that it was a step towards getting to a creative position within the company.

4:02So I was willing to basically do what it takes to get there. And I think all of those different little tasks were giving you contacts into different sides of the business that really built a strong foundation. But that's just one step within your amazing journey where later on in your career, you also started your own marketing firm. You also went through selling that company and then also having so many pivotal moments where you had to leave behind jobs you loved and also companies that you built and loved. I guess the question here is, how do you know when it's the right time to leave something?

4:43And how do you yourself go through that decision process? That's a great question because, you know, when you're on this journey within your career or live out your passion, for me, it was creativity and, you know, being a designer, graphic designer at the time. And so after six years, I achieved my goal and I was the art director of the company, creative director. So that was exciting. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is awesome. But then after quite some time, there was no more room to grow. So I wasn't as challenged creatively. And for me personally, like I love a challenge. And I think being a graphic designer, part of it is you're always solving problems.

5:33You're solving like, how can I make this look amazing? And if it's a consumer brand, how can I make people want to buy it? So at that particular job, I wasn't growing. And that to me was the first sign of, okay, time to transition into something new. And I loved graphic design so much that I'm like, well, why don't I just offer my creative services to other companies? I did a lot of reading on what other design firms were doing before I quit my job to start my own design firm or marketing firm. Once I learned that, how are they doing it and making it look so amazing? Because I was looking in magazines and like reading articles about these successful design firms and they were designing campaigns for like Nike and other successful brands.

6:36And so it became my next phase of, again, same path. It's like that I see what I want and that's what I want to go get. But this time I saw it in like magazines and on websites of other design firms that were just absolutely killing it. And I'm like, okay, that's what I want. So it was hard to leave the relationships, the people that I've worked with because they were amazing people. But I was ready for that next chapter. While you were running your own firm, you also went through a period that, similar to what we're going through, that was the 2008 recession. And that is such a stressful time for being a business owner because you had employees and their livelihood tied to something that you're building.

7:27I'm sure listeners and fellow founders now, they would be curious to hear your advice for navigating those periods. Yeah, so I started the business in 94. And so we had a good run. And then the recession hit. And at that time, like a lot of companies, economic challenges can come out of nowhere. And it did for us. And I had a staff of about 22 people and great client base. One of my clients is like 35 % of our total revenue. And so recession kind of hit and the first thing most large companies do that we're working with and was cut marketing budgets. So we felt that. And, you know, at first it's you're just panicking because you're like, wait a minute, this was my big account.

8:25And they just cut our sales like over 50 percent. and so as a business owner you have to survive and so you go into survival mode and when you have 22 people on your team they're there for a reason and the last thing you want to do is have to let any of them go because they're like all amazing otherwise they wouldn't be working for you. And so going through that very difficult process, that was tough because payroll tends to be like your number one company expense, especially in a service industry, which I was in. So if I'm being honest, though, I did put it off. And that cost me a lot because we were running a negative for a while on the books and it just got to a point where like gotta make really really tough decisions so so I did and I had to let the majority of the staff go we kept like a handful of I think we had like eight people left and deciding who the eight were that was really tough too, you know?

9:42But yeah, those times, I don't regret them. Fast forward to today, things are challenging even right now, today. And so having going through that, I'm like, okay, cool. I know how to keep a company lean on the books while keeping staff enjoying their job and happy and their environments as great as we can make it. And then that also led to the company going through an acquisition. So talk to us about certain things that founders should think about when they're looking to merge with another company or being acquired. After we downsized, we then, you kind of like buckle down and then you reset the company and you reset your goals, you reset everything.

10:32And then we were fortunate enough to kind of rebuild the company and we pivoted to actually a little bit. And so all of a sudden our sales are growing back. And, and this time as we were growing, we were still had that lean mindset and we were profitable and we're, you know, doing great. So then out of nowhere, I would say this is like two years after a, an individual came in and said, you know, I really like your company and what you guys are doing. We have a company that we could use. We can integrate your services within our larger company. And at the time, going through the recession and going through all of that did weigh on me.

11:15And you kind of go similar to the previous path or my first career path was you get to a point of stagnation where you're like, you're kind of like at that peak and you're, are you still being challenged? Is it fun? You know, maybe this journey has come to an end. And so when he came in, he said, look, if you're looking to sell, we're looking to buy. And I was at that mental state of, you know, it's been a long journey, but had some ups and downs. Am I done? Is this the next phase? Maybe this is the end of this journey and I'm on, I'm ready for next phase. And so, yeah, my mindset at that time for me was like time to cash out and time to start yet another journey in my career.

12:05How did you build up on your knowledge and also your experience through the acquisition? What I've learned just throughout my journey and career is there's just so much information available to learn things on your own. And similar to like what I said in the beginning was there's also a lot of people that are so happy to share their knowledge with you. And so here I am at this phase of someone wants to buy my company. Well, I've never been through that before. So I then researched how to value your company. Then I even went as far as within my industry, there was actually consultants there's one consultant specifically who is able to put a value on your company within the design industry and i'm like oh my gosh this guy's awesome like he knows he's exactly the type of consultant i would want to bring on right now and so i did and he was able to go through the books i mean i learned so much he's like you know here's gross sales, cost, valuation, client list, staff.

13:14I would always recommend trying to find a consultant who is within your industry, who can help you kind of put a value on your business.

13:26But then again, there's just so much knowledge on YouTube and online that a lot of people just share with people that have gone through acquisitions will tend to share like that process. We've chatted about so many different career chapters and we still haven't gotten to wildflower cases yet. And I'm very excited to dig into it. I'm joined by Dave Carlson, the president of wildflower cases, and I hope you're enjoying our conversation. If you haven't already, please subscribe or follow Shopify Masters wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a review or feedback for the show. Thanks. So, so many career chapters.

14:08And then eventually, while flower cases kind of blossom and it all started at such an endearing and serendipitous moment. Take us back to the beginning of how this business started. Okay. So this was about 10 years ago and Michelle, my wife, who has always been very creative with like crafts and everything on the craft side of things, she decided to hand make two phone cases for our daughters, Devin and Sydney. And Devin and Sydney loved them. And they took them to school. And then all their friends loved them. And they were coming over like, oh, you know, I want a phone case. I want a phone case.

15:00So Michelle was making phone cases for like friends and stuff. It was a fun little hobby. And then about three weeks later, we were at dinner and Miley Cyrus walked in and Devin being, I think, a year younger than Miley. She She was a huge fan of Hannah Montana. And so she freaked out. And that day, I think that was a Friday, that was the first day that Michelle packed an extra two phone cases in the car and wrapped them all cute. And the reason why is because every time they went out, someone would ask them where they got the phone cases. So Michelle's like, if someone asks, I could always say, well, I have a couple extra and I could, you know, sell them.

15:43I'm like, that's a great idea. you should totally do that. So she did that on that day. How serendipitous. Yeah. So me thinking, I'm like, okay, I definitely got to give Miley these two phone cases. The girls went into the restroom and Miley Cyrus was in the restroom. And Devin said, can I get a photo? And Miley's like, oh my gosh, no problem. So Cindy's taking the photo. And of course she has on Michelle's phone case that she made and so Miley sees the phone case and is freaking out saying that phone case is so cute it's amazing where'd you get it and so Miley then came to our table and said these phone cases are absolutely the cutest things ever I would love to get some for my mom and my sister where can I buy them and Michelle's like well I'm just doing it as a hobby and Miley Cyrus said you need to start a business.

16:45These are the cutest phone cases ever. And I looked at her and I said, Miley, we'll have a website by tomorrow. And then she says, okay, well, what's Devin's Twitter? Because I want to tweet a photo of the phone cases because they did give her the phone cases. And so Devin gave Miley her Twitter and they hugged and whatever. And then we all go back to our dinner and then we left. And on the drive home, Devin's phone is blowing up and she's looking at it. She's like, oh my gosh, Miley Cyrus tagged me on Twitter. Cause 10 years ago, Twitter was kind of where it was at. So then we go back home and then I sat the girls down.

17:22I said, look, this is a moment and we need to decide if we want to make a website. And if we do, I'll stay up all night and do it. But you guys got to come up with the name and you got to get creative on the design that we had two designs at the time. But, and so they all agreed. It was like a family huddle. They said, go. And I said, oh, if you guys want to do it, I'm behind you 110%. So they said yes. And then I stayed up to about 5am, opened up a Shopify account and launched the site. And by, that was Friday night. So by Saturday, by noon, we had the website live and Devin tweeted from Miley's tweet.

18:05She replied and said the website's live. You can go buy them. And they sold out. The cases we made, which I think we made like 20, handmade, they sold out within like the first five minutes. What a crazy cool story. Just everything aligning and also super happy to hear about building that Shopify store overnight and getting something up and ready. I understand, obviously, everyone listening to this, they'll understand that the demand is just growing and just the beginning. And Michelle probably couldn't keep up with hand-making all of the cases. Talk us through the process of figuring out how to find production partners and actually moving this business into the big leagues.

18:56Yeah, the production side of it It was really a very interesting journey because obviously none of us have ever launched a product-based company. I had service companies, like I understood service business, but going back real quick when I sold my agency, I did see that there was a designer that started his own product. And so that was kind of my next target. I'm like, okay, someday I would love to have a product company. So fast forward, here we are, Wildflower, product company. So I'm like, okay, cool. Got to figure out how to build a product company. So Michelle's hand making these cases. We can't keep up.

19:34Like she was crying at certain times at night because she was so stressed out how to hand make all these phone cases to fill these orders. And so I'm like, okay, I got to do something. So I went on Google and I searched for a local fulfillment company and reached out to them if they would be interested in hand making the foam cases and we'll teach them how to do it. And fortunately, she said yes. And we went in there and taught her team of three people on how to make these foam cases with cutting fabric and gluing studs. And it's a tedious project. And so we did that for about a couple, maybe a year or so.

20:20Absolutely incredible people. We're so thankful to have met them because at that time, prior to signing up with them, Michelle thought no one could make a wildfire case like she could. So now we're like starting to, you know, create cases and sell through and the demand just kept growing and they couldn't keep up. So then I'm like, okay, all right, got to find another team. And that's when I sourced the company in Tijuana, Mexico. and they were kind of a fulfillment company, but much larger. And so we had a team of 12 to 15 people making phone cases for us in Mexico for a while. And then that outgrew.

21:02And through my past relationships, this is important for any entrepreneur out there, is everyone you meet along your journey, there are people that may provide you with incredible connections or value at some point down the road. And that's what happened. After Mexico, I had a really good friend and he still works with us at Wildflower, but he's a sourcing manager and he spends, I would say, half the year in China. And so I said, look, we're at a point where we need a factory to help us make these phone cases. And so that's what he did. He came in and found this incredible company, family business out of Shenzhen, China.

21:52And it wasn't that easy, but we found someone who today is now making our phone cases that still have a handmade component. Actually, every Wild Thought case has handmade component to it. So it's like demand, find a source, demand, find a source. So with the growing demand and also investment into more inventory, that also requires a lot of funds, but I understand Wellflower is completely self-funded. Can you talk to us about the financial decisions you've taken to make sure that it made sense for the growth of Wellflower? Yeah, I would say that's probably one of the biggest challenges of any service or product company when you start.

22:42So here's the thing. For my particular situation, I applied my past knowledge from my previous company, and that was, let's try to operate as lean as we can without sacrificing growth. And that's what we did. As demand picked up, you know, on a product company, you need to have the funds to purchase inventory. And so for us, we used our savings that we had initially. And then we even got a short-term family loan to help cover like a big inventory purchase. And then we paid that off within like four months because we're very strict about like paying down debts, especially family debt. Side note, you should always like try to pay off any family loans as quickly as possible for the obvious reasons you want to keep family happy.

23:37and then we maxed out like American Express and then we got a line of credit from banks. There's ways to self-fund your growth if you just can get a little bit of creative. So banks are willing to loan businesses up to a certain amount. If you plan accordingly, you can be like, okay, if I'm going to borrow, you know, a hundred thousand and I sell X number our product. I can pay it off over the course of six months or a year, whatever. We did put a lot of effort into like planning out how much finance we're going to need to create this much inventory and then how quickly could we pay it off. Another side of what makes Wildflower so successful is the community that you've all built.

24:27And of course, we have to acknowledge Devin and Sydney's knack for social media and the fact that their style and their vision has really spoken to a community of individuals. What is it about this kind of dynamic that your family has found that really works in a marketing concept in this new way and also was able to like connect with the right audience? When Wildflower started, we knew that we were going to be more fashion-based brand that just happened to make phone cases. So the brand was like skewed towards girls that want a cute phone case. Like that's just something cute that matches their outfits.

25:11So I feel like fashion has always just been a part of Michelle. And then Devin and Sydney were born into like fashion and looking cute and accessorizing and all of that. When Wildflower started, Sydney was 16. Devin was 18 so they were teenagers so there's a lot of growth there and like figuring out what your style is they were able to just kind of like grow with the brand individually and Wildflower I feel like helped them explore different styles different fashion trends and everything and they just it's so easy for them to just apply it to their ideas to a phone case and they'll be like this would match cute with this outfit or this look or whatever.

26:02And it's, I mean, you're talking 10 years later, that's all they've done for 10 years is focused on fashion. And you could see it now today. I feel like Devin and Sydney have taken on that role of not only being like creative directors for Wildfire, but also being like, well, let's explore fashion, you know, and determine what we like and what trends we like to share with our followers and whatnot. So. I think philosophically, the question here would be, did it feel like a hurdle to give creative control to your daughters? Because you yourself is a creative individual. So you're kind of taking on all the responsibility of the business side and you're giving full empowerment and freedom for your daughters to create and you're entrusting them literally with the branding of this business.

27:00Yeah, that was an interesting transition. But I was glad to do it. Okay, so in business, it's important to manage your ego. And so for me, My ego wasn't looking to design anything for Wildfire. Instead, I was looking to empower Devin and Sydney to become these designers and creative visionaries for a fashion accessory brand. Like I said earlier, I would ask managers for help and guidance on my path. I wanted to be one of those managers that they could ask me, what could I do to become more of a designer or creative director for a fashion accessory company? So I kind of would be there for them in support of their creative vision.

27:55And so if they came to me and said, I want to do a black and white case, that's like black and white checkers. I'd be like, okay, cool. Let's talk about that. And you know, where'd you get your inspiration or whatever? And they'd share and be like, oh, is this so cute? And I saw this person with that and, you know, this and okay, cool, let's do it. You know? So for me, it was just an opportunity more so than like letting go of my graphic design desire. And then I feel like as a graphic designer, I ended up using my creativity or problem solving skills in graphic design. I actually applied it to business and then problem solving the business.

28:38So I was able to creatively look at the business from that perspective, while Devin and Sydney and Michelle were totally focused on design and vision of the brand. So Wildflower started because of Miley's interest in the product, and she gave so much social love. So there's that organic growth in social media behind the brand. And of course, Devin and Sydney's own social following has really stimulated the growth of the brand as well. Marketing is constantly changing. So can you talk to some of the new channels and formats of marketing that the brand is using and have found success in? Yeah, we've come a long way because when Wildflower started, Instagram was just kind of like kicking off.

29:26And we were fortunate that when we did start, Miley posted on her Instagram and tagged us. So we got some early exposure on Instagram, on the Explore page. I don't know if you remember the Explore page on Instagram. That was like the thing. I kept telling the girls that we are a content creation company that happens to make phone cases. And so that's kind of been our internal mantra for years. and today the techniques we're doing, I would say we've increased our content production a lot to the point where now video is pretty important. It has been important for quite some time. So we're doing more video, which means we're doing more TikToks and reels and shorts on YouTube.

30:20I even was joking saying, I think Wildflower is becoming an entertainment company. And we should have a subscription service-based company for Wildflower because we're just creating so much content. But if I just want to say as an entrepreneur, as a business owner, there is that balance of there is a cost to create content. If you're creating it on, let's just call it a semi-professional level with hair, makeup, location lighting photographer videographer and then post editing music but as an entrepreneur you have to like balance that cost with is it generating more sales revenue and all that so it's it's this balance and so we do as much content as we feel like is works for our company it works for our brand that's fun too and engaging and all that and and keeps the personality of the brand and everything at a level that resonates with our customer.

31:23Because content is also a factor of what setting Wildflower apart, because you are in an industry that has a lot of competitors and there's a lot of tech accessory makers out there. So I think it definitely adds to that differentiation factor. But yeah, speak to us about being in this market that is very competitive and saturated and yet you're able to stand out. When you have a really good compelling brand story, that can last throughout the entire journey of a brand company. And it can evolve over time, of course, but like our story is just so unique to the point where I go, sometimes I feel like there's no one like Wildflower.

32:13There just isn't. And with that attitude we tend to not really look at competitors or see what they're doing of course we need to do competitive research but it's like so minimal to the point where we're almost in our own universe and i think it helps to have these young female fashion-centric leaders within the company just having fun and being like oh this is a this is a cute pattern or you know they just went to Paris Fashion Week and Milan Fashion Week. And they went to New York Fashion Week prior. So they're like doing and experiencing all these things within the fashion world. And then they come back and they're like, oh, let's do this and let's try that.