Cirque du Soleil’s Secrets to Creativity and Profitability

0:00You really have to challenge yourself every day. It doesn't matter where you are. If you want to remain relevant to your customers, you have to be creative.

0:17Hello and welcome to Shopify On Location. I'm Shuang Esr-Shan coming to you from Montreal. Creativity is an essential ingredient for any business to grow, especially if you ask Daniel Lamar. He's the executive vice chairman of Cirque du Soleil. Daniel took the budding circus company and turned it into a global entertainment empire. He's here to share how you can use creative thinking to take your business to new heights. Daniel, thank you so much for joining me on the show. It's my pleasure to come and talk about my passion, which is creativity. Well, it's such an honor to chat with you, Daniel.

0:57I love so many different chapters of your career. Why don't we start at how you begin your journey with Cirque? You thought you were a creative person, but the team at Cirque actually thought you were a bit of a serious businessman. So they assigned you a clown. So how do we fund our version of a clown for any industry? Yeah, first and foremost, you know, the reason why the founder, Guy Laliberté, hired me a clown is because he was afraid that we would become too corporate. And what happened with the clown, it become a symbol of who we are in life, meaning an entertainment company. We wanted to remind me, but more importantly, our employees, that's what we do.

1:45And that's why I always say to people, don't have to hire a clown, obviously, because it's not your business. But you should think about symbols that make sure that your employees remember every day what they stand for. And in our case, we stand for entertainment and creativity. I love that. So have a core belief and a core symbol that acts as a reminder throughout your day-to-day. So if you're a bakery, maybe it's a favorite pastry item. If you're a jewelry maker, maybe it's an iconic piece. So something to remind you of who you are and what you're doing. Exactly. And in our situation, we like to create an environment that also inspired creativity.

2:33For instance, you know, what we produce and create is artistic content.

2:42That's why on our building, you will see a lot of artistic pieces to remind people that's what we do. We're artists. And if you go in the cafeteria, you will have the feeling that you are in United Nations because there are people from 96 different nationalities working with Cirque du Soleil. So those values are embedded in our day-to-day life. And that's why I suggest to other companies, Make sure that the nature, the core of what you do is really present in your day-to-day life. I think for you personally, it was also a big shift leaving your old role and joining a circus. How did you manage your own mental shift when you were taking on a bigger responsibility and joining this company that was having creativity at his heart?

3:40Yeah, that was an important shift. because, you know, I was used in the TV business. I knew everything about the business. That was easy for me to make decisions. At Cirque, there is no benchmark. There is no point of reference. You know, there is not an industry of Cirque du Soleil. Cirque du Soleil is unique. So therefore, I had to be very humble and understand that this organization was special and that my role was not to change the organization. My role was to change myself. And the way to do it was by observing the creators, like our founder Guy Laliberté, amazing artists such as Robert Lepage, The Beatles, James Cameron.

4:24Just observing the creativity of those people opened my mind to a new world of how creative I could be, even if I was a manager. So you're learning all about being open to creativity, and it's a big part of Cirque du Soleil's success, something you write a lot about in your book, Balancing Act, unleashing the power of creativity in your life and work. And what you mentioned is, though traditionally people think research and development is a waste of money for a lot of businesses, it's actually the foundation for success. So why is this so important for any business that you're in? Yeah, first and foremost, I have a very drastic approach about it.

5:11I say if there is no creativity, there is no business. And I believe that. And it's not only for Cirque du Soleil. It's for any organization. Just ask the former employees of Kodak. Kodak disappear because of the lack of creativity, the lack of the openness of the digital world. And that's why if you don't want to, you know, lose your edge, lose your leadership, you really have to challenge yourself every day by bringing new solutions, by developing new products, by developing new marketing campaigns. So it doesn't matter where you are. If you want to remain relevant to your customers, you have to be creative.

5:58And a big part for Cirque du Soleil is the investment. How do people take that research and development mindset and apply to something that is quite small that is just starting out right now? Yeah. What's important is that you're very clear about what you're looking for. So you have a mandate that has to be very well defined about what kind of new technologies that you're looking for. And then you find the right partner. In the past, we have been working with Microsoft. We have been working with Samsung. We have been working with 11 different universities. But with a very clear mandate of something that can apply to a show.

6:42And the first line of that mandate is how can you enhance the human performance of our artists by bringing new technologies. And it's so, so stimulating for us. I think I speak for anyone that has experienced anything related to Cirque. anyone from anywhere can have a connection and they can relate to the story. And it's so cool to hear that people from almost 100 different countries come together to create a magical show together. So how do you actually bring people from different parts of the world and make sure that there is a culture and an environment where they could create together? Yeah, I think it's probably the most important ingredient of our success.

7:37It's having people coming from all over the world with different experience, different expertise, different values, different culture, and they come and bring that on the table. And there is not one show where we have less than 20 different nationalities represented. And that's why what will come out from that creative process is the development of a show that will be relevant internationally. And it's important to highlight that the headquarters is not just where performers practice, but anyone from finances, accounting, marketing, they're all a part of this building, and they get to be in the same space.

8:24Why was that so important? It is because I want everybody to feel that they're part of the creation process. So it doesn't matter if you work in HR or finance or legal for that matter. The studio are open every day. So rather than to take your coffee break at a cafeteria, you might want to go and watch our artists that are, you know, rehearsing a new show. And that's the mentality I want to bring because then again, it's another way for us to remind our employees, even from the administrative staff, that they are part of something very, very special. and they are contributing to this new show.

9:11And every time we launch a new show, we do a premiere for our employees to tell them thank you because what you see on stage, even you in finance or you in legal, you have brought your contribution to this show and you should feel that you are part of it. I think another cool aspect of building these universal shows is visiting so many different cities and having the performers travel. How does Cirque approach marketing and promoting a show in an international city where it has not gone before, but now it has to promote a story that has never been shared before as well? Yeah, you know, people are often talking about international market or global market.

10:02To me, it doesn't exist. What exists is to become a global brand, you have to work locally. So every time we visit a city, we have to become a citizen of that city by doing some PR activities, by involving ourselves socially. And that's how we have been able through all those years, we're 39 years old, we'll be 40 next year, we have developed this global brand by conquering every single market one by one. Today, we tour in 450 cities around the world.

10:47it's amazing to hear because i sometimes laugh at business talk where they talk about international marketing and then they stress about localization or localizing your marketing content so i love the way that you put the local scene whichever space you're in at the heart of it it's very very important because, you know, there is this mentality of circus in town. And I love that mentality because I want to become an event in a city when I visit that municipality. And therefore, in order to do that, you have to be embedded with the local community. You have to work in collaboration with the key influencers.

11:35And the ultimate challenge is sometimes people don't even realize we're from Montreal. Sometimes they think that we're from their own city. And for me, it's the ultimate compliment. Speaking of collaborations, I'm very excited to dig into all of the amazing partnerships that Cirque du Soleil has had over the years. Episodes like this are only possible because of our amazing listeners so be sure to leave a review and subscribe to the show wherever you're listening. We'll bring you new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday and you can expect a special on-location episode like this one with Cirque du Soleil.

12:18Before we get into all the amazing partnerships I would love to chat about where Cirque du Soleil comes from. It's funny that So many people don't realize Montreal is the birthplace, but why is Montreal so special? And what does it have that other cities don't? First and foremost, Montreal is a place that is an oasis for people coming from out of town.

12:51And what I have observed the most is that it doesn't matter if you've come from China or Russia or whatever city you're coming from you would feel home very, very quickly in Montreal It's this mentality of Montreal citizen and in our case of Montreal creators to host and welcome people from all over the world

13:20and because we're not threatening for anybody they feel that in Montreal you know it's a peaceful city right sized city and also for our situation a very important creative city there's a lot of amazing artists in that city and that's also another reason why Montreal is so special and so attractive for artists from all over the world. For someone who's listening and hearing 450 different cities, they might assume it might be easier to build up a training center somewhere else in the world or build another department somewhere else. Why was it that Montreal remained the headquarters and all of the training, all of the operations actually stayed here?

14:11Because it's a quality control. We have an amazing studio. There is no studio like that in the world. And I don't think it will be wise to duplicate that anywhere else in the world. I think, you know, we have this uniqueness in terms of our studio, our costume shop. And we have all those possibilities, even a residence for our artists when they come to train in Montreal. So the togetherness that we create within a troupe before we launch a new show make it very, very special. And the fact that it's unique, the result is going to be very unique as well. So I will never take the chance to try to duplicate it because I think it will dilute the soul of our organization.

15:10Another big part of that is also the partnership that Cirque du Soleil has with the local government. And I think a lot of people might not think, oh, a circus, an entertainment company, can be partners with the government. But it's actually very essential, especially given the recent hurdles of COVID-19. So talk to us about that partnership and that support. The Quebec government has been, you know, fundamental in the creation of Cirque du Soleil. And that's where companies like ours need support. And again, at the time, that was the prime minister from his discretionary budget that has supported us because there was no program existing at the time for a circus organization.

16:00And it took someone that had a vision to support at the time. Remember, that was a bunch of performers literally begging at the corner of the street for people to help them. And the prime minister at the time, Monsieur Lévesque, saw the potential of that bunch of great creators, and the rest is history.

16:32And the government is only one of the partnerships. As I mentioned before, there's been incredible partnerships like the estates for the Beatles, Michael Jackson, as well as just working with large hotel establishments in Las Vegas. You've gone through so many tough negotiations. What is your advice for being under pressure and being in one of those conversations? First of all, I think it's very important that you don't lose the focus on the ultimate goal, which is to surprise people by bringing new capabilities. Like in Vegas, our partner has allowed us to develop unique theaters like nowhere else in the world.

17:19Working with the Beatles, you know, it was a very tough negotiation. It took me two years to convince every single one of them to support us in that venture. But the one thing that is important is that when you deal with the Beatles or James Cameron or Disney for that matter, it's very important that it's a win-win, that what we bring will be in addition to what they do. When we bring a new show in downtown Disney, we are bringing something that Disney couldn't do without us. What advice do you have for founders who might be starting out? How do they approach a company that looks much bigger? How do they reach out to big brands like that?

18:10I think it's very important that you don't undersell yourself. You know, in the case of the Beatles, I remember when we met them the first time, we were there meeting with Paul, Ringo, George at the time, and Yoko and Olivia Arison. And I remember Paul looking at us and say, what's the pitch? And our answer was, there is no pitch. You're a creative force. We are a creative force. We're here to see what we can do together that you cannot do by yourself and we cannot do by ourselves, but where we need to partners. And that will be my first advice. You know, you should position yourself at the right level.

18:52It doesn't matter how big is the organization or how successful is the organization that you are approaching. Bring your confidence to that conversation. Exactly. Otherwise, it will be impossible to be equal in the creative process. So we have established that from the get-go. And that's what I would recommend to any entrepreneur that will start a new negotiation. On the flip side of that, you also had experience saying no to projects. Early on in your career in Cirque, there was this dream of building a Disneyland-like Cirque compound, if you will. And you realized that it was not a good financial decision and also not a great decision for the brand.

19:44How did you actually approach those hard conversations where you're saying no to something? Yeah, I think it's a matter of discipline, but more importantly, I think it's a matter of believing on what you stand for. And Cirque du Soleil is not Disneyland. Cirque du Soleil is something very, very different, something very precious. It's a brand that sits up scale. And when you have a jewel like this, you have to make sure that you're not trying to do too many things at the same time, that the consumers will not follow you. The consumers knows exactly what we stand for. And if we try to go too far from what they're expecting, then they will not follow you anymore.

20:33And that's what our analysis were telling me at the time. And yeah, that was tough. But you don't argue with facts. And in order for me to be able to convince the owner, the founder that it was a bad idea. I had to sustain that with facts that were compelling because I hate to argue only on opinion or feelings. I like to have facts that will support what I think. I think also for so many of your career chapters where you had to do major pivots, you didn't necessarily have the facts or you didn't know what the future would be. When you left behind your PR career to join TVA, you actually took a salary cut.

21:25And then you took another risk with CERC. So in those instances where you might not have a lot of insight into how the future will unfold or facts of sorts, how do you make those pivotal decisions for yourself? Yeah, that's a very interesting point. Because when it comes to the company, I'm very, very disciplined and I will only make my decision on facts or consulting people. When it comes to my personal life, I go with feeling a lot. And that's why, because on paper, it didn't make sense for me to leave the TV network to join Cirque du Soleil. But I had a feeling that the only way for me to be at the international scale was to join Cirque du Soleil.

22:15So even if there was a lot of rational good reasons not to do that short term, I had the feeling that long term, it will be a much more exciting challenge. And for the last two decades, yourself personally and Cirque du Soleil has grown so much. Looking forward, I know that Cirque du Soleil is experimenting with merchandising, something that grew a lot during COVID. Talk to us about the approach of building into different shows and also the online experience of expanding the merchandising arm of the business. Yeah, that's, again, this is key because I truly believe that the only reasons why we have been able to keep the brand alive during the pandemic was the fact that we have created a network called Cirque Connect.

23:13Where we were offering to people every week a new content of Cirque du Soleil. So in the 16 months of broadcasting that network, that content, we have reached out to 70 million people around the world.

23:35and what's good about that it's not only the impact you create on 70 million people which is not nothing but it's the impact that those 70 million people are creating and it has helped us to create an anticipation an expectation that Cirque du Soleil will come back nobody we're doubting that we will not come back And this expectation has helped us for the last two years to break all our ticket sales records because people were missing us. And now that we are back, people are supporting us. For sure. And especially for our team as well, we were able to catch two shows recently for our work trips.

24:23Speaking to things reopening, how is Cirque du Soleil managing the multi-touch experience now with Cirque Connect and also the in-person experience? How do you manage multiple channels? Yeah. So now what we are trying to do is to develop a lot of ancillary activities outside of the live shows. You mentioned earlier merchandising. We just launched recently with Roblox a new game for kids. We have some TV production in the making right now. So we want to extend it that it's a 360 experience for our customer. Because if I come in your city one day and I won't come back for two years, so in the gap between those two years, I have to remain in your imagination.

25:19And the way to do it is outside of a live show through, as I said, Cirque Connect, through broadcasting content or other types of touchpoint with the consumers. Essentially, you're offering a sort of symbol into their day-to-day, kind of like the clown we mentioned in the beginning, a little symbol into their day-to-day through merchandising, through video, through multimedia to keep them in the Cirque universe. Exactly. And that's very important because, you know, even if multimedia has not yet reached out to the same level than live shows, nevertheless, approaching this content in a different manner through documentary, through games, through, you know, all sorts of experience brings another version of the brand of Cirque du Soleil.

26:12Amazing. Well, thank you so much for your time. I would love to wrap up our conversation by having you give us one last piece of advice for whoever's starting out early in their business journey and they're thinking about pursuing that idea. How do they go ahead on this journey and keeping that sense of creativity while they're building? First and foremost, be very clear on your vision. because that vision is going to help you to shape a business plan that will be productive and profitable for the five years to come. I always like to work with a five-year plan and remain focused on that because too many times you are distracted by little things.

27:01So just keep the real focus on the thing that are going to be game changer, that are going to be a springboard to bring your organization to the next level. And the way to do it is by challenging your creativity every day to bring new solutions, new products, new way of doing things. Amazing. Thank you so much, Daniel, for being here. It's such an honor to chat with you. Thank you. That's Daniel Lamar, the Executive Vice Chairman of the Board at Cirque du Soleil. Thank you for tuning in and listening to Shopify On Location. Our show is produced by Gogo Zoger and Megan Coyle, mixed and engineered by Matt Shorts and Miku Betlam.

27:47Benjamin Gottlieb is our supervising producer. Special thanks to Audio Z and Eric Gendron. I'm Shuang Esther Shan. You'll hear another episode from Montreal next Thursday on Shopify On Location.

28:06Bye.