Find the Best Suppliers for Your Food Business

0:00Once you get there, there's no guarantee you'll be able to pitch to the sharks either. and we were the last group to go. You know, the people after us sadly didn't even get to present. And so that could have been us. Hello, welcome to Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and building a business. I'm Shuang Esther Shan. Sometimes popping a hot, buttery bag of popcorn is all you need to complete the perfect night in. But what if your favorite snack is hard on her stomach? For Jen Martin, finding alternative heirloom popcorn kernels was her saving grace. Not only are they easier to digest, they taste better too.

0:39Jen and her co-founders launched Pipcorn in 2012 and saw almost immediate success. They made Oprah's favorite things, they pitched on Shark Tank, and in 2019 raised more than$6 million in VC funding. Jen is here now to share how PipSax gained insightful customer feedback, their fundraising journey, and what new marketing channels they're experimenting with. Jen, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm thrilled. Very excited to chat. I understand you spend a lot of time working in health food stores, and you also had your own dietary restrictions that led you to discover special heirloom kernels that you fell in love with.

1:23Can you share what process you took after you decided this was something that you can build a business around? Yeah, I mean, I found the kernels when I was working at a health food store. Couldn't eat normal popcorn, but I found these heirloom kernels and I could eat this one. Became obsessed. And really the process was just, I think it's like how any good entrepreneurial story kind of starts. It's like you become obsessed with something and then you just like keep going. And you keep trying to figure out what to do next, how to get this to more people, how to share it. And so we really, I remember my brother and I went on a road trip and we kind of thought of every single name that could be like mini popcorn, heirloom popcorn, you know, all these different things.

2:04Probably thought of the worst ideas. We kind of just figured out where we needed to be, which at the time was Smorgasburg in Brooklyn, New York. We didn't have a lot of money. We started with just$3 ,000, which is not a lot to start a company. So we wanted to make sure we were somewhere where we could pivot and learn really quickly and somewhere that was like low barrier to entry, right? So we could go set up a tent and sample products, see how people liked it, see what they didn't like, change things week to week. And I think that really allowed us to grow so quickly. And I think just not actually having, you know, big money to put behind this and do a lot of, you know, the like branding and research allowed us to make really creative packaging that I think people related to.

2:49We use brown paper bags and hand stamped them. And this was 11 years ago. And so I think the like small batch food movement was really, you know, people were really concerned about who they are buying food from and where is it coming from. And so for us, you know, we've always worked with family farms and it was like a family founded business. And so kind of following the path of where are we looking for the new snack? Where are we looking for food that makes us feel good and trying to place ourselves and Pipcorn there?

3:26So for listeners who might not be familiar with heirloom versus regular popcorn, can you tell us what the difference is? Yeah, absolutely. I like to right away kind of just bring up heirloom tomatoes because I think everyone at this point sort of understands what they are and how they're like, they wait all year for them and they're so delicious. And it's a similar thing with heirloom corn, right? So heirloom's better for three reasons. It tastes better, there's better nutrition, and it's environmentally sustainable. And so that's really why we love it. It's all open pollinated and the seeds you grow this year, you can plant next year and grow again.

4:03And it helps with the biodiversity of farming and all of those different things. And a lot of times with produce and fruits and vegetables, they're grown for look, for yield, for all these different things. But when you do that, you're compromising the actual product. You're compromising how good it tastes, how much nutrition is in it. So if you just kind of allow something to be what it is, which is what heirloom does, it really is just outperforms all the time. It's why people go for heirloom tomatoes over regular tomatoes a lot of the time. So in addition to taste, it's regenerative and it also adds to biodiversity.

4:42Yes. You mentioned that the initial market or the initial event that Pipcorn attended was Smorgasburg in New York, which actually has a lot of food trucks, indulgent eats. So what about this event that might not necessarily link to a snack company made it sound right for you to attend and test out this product? I think what felt right about Smorgasburg is just people go there because they love food. And at the end of the day, we're using real ingredients and we love snacks, right? We love snacks. But what you also have to love is like everything that goes into it. And I think when you go to Smorgasburg, you care about the vendor.

5:26You care about what products they're using. You care about where they're sourcing and how it tastes. And for us, that's always been really our goal. We weren't trying to be a functional snack like protein and all this stuff. We were trying to be like, we love snacks and we make the best snacks and with the best ingredients. And I think that that is a through line at Smorgasburg. It's people who make the most delicious food, whether it's like a vegan food or a brisket, and they make the most, the best one, and you can learn the story behind it. And so I think it felt really right. And I also think that we were in New York and it was where people went on the weekends.

6:00And so what an amazing marketing opportunity. You get to connect with thousands of people every Saturday and Sunday. We were able to try new flavors. This flavor didn't work, this did. We were able to meet retailers. And so it was a place that people were coming and being in community. And I think that's also where you eat snacks. So we definitely didn't have the lines like a lot of the food trucks and all of that did. But we had the regulars who would be walking by and be really full and be like, you know what, let me get something to go. And so it felt right. And I think a lot of it was also just like that entrepreneurial feeling of instinct of being like, we need to be there.

6:38And definitely the choice was the right one because you ended up meeting a producer who worked on Oprah's show, which then relate to this crazy cool opportunity. Tell us about that faithful interaction. Yeah, it was really wild. It's like, I like still remember that day. It was a really hot summer day. You know, we had launched a few months before and we're standing there and my brother and I are at the front of the tent. We're just kind of like talking to people who come by selling our snacks, trying to get people, you know, interested. Like you said, people aren't there for snacks. So it was a lot of work trying to get like people to come in and come talk to us.

7:15And we saw somebody who was sort of like standing there. And if you've ever been to Smorgasburg, it's super crowded. Um, and she was like trying to write stuff. She had like a little notebook and she looked, it was like a very hot day. So we were like, just reached out to her and we're like, Hey, do you need to like stand in the back of our tent? Like feel free. Um, and she was really grateful. And she stood back there. We didn't even talk to her. We offered her a bag of snacks, you know. And then maybe 30 minutes go by and she said thanks and walks to the front of the booth and was like, I'm actually a scout from Oprah's favorite things.

7:52And it was just wild because and she was like, she was just trying to like get organized and like look at her list of everything. And I don't know if we hadn't stopped her and asked her to come back. I don't know if she would have necessarily taken the time because you can really get lost at Smorgasburg. So from there, we really got put in touch with Oprah's whole team and worked with her for the summer. And we got picked as one of her favorite things and we're on the show. And that was in our first eight months of business. I love that story so much because an act of kindness has truly transcended the business.

8:25I think for a lot of founders, when you get a big break, it's actually a high stress pivotal point because you have an influx of orders. You also have to find new production partners. How did you handle everything from the logistics and operations side of things? We kind of didn't. It was not necessarily like the easiest time. But, you know, I feel like it's one of those things that you just we just kept going. We needed the biggest thing we needed to figure out was a kitchen. Right. So at the time, we were still using a shared kitchen space in Harlem, hot bread kitchen. So we were renting like a stovetop for a certain number of hours, popping in a spaghetti pot.

9:10We knew that with Oprah coming, we were going to have an insane amount of orders. We had to make gift boxes and all these different things. so our biggest priority was just finding a place where we could make everything and produce it and again you know at the time we were still small so we couldn't go co-pracker route and we also didn't want to we wanted to like at the time still have control over the product as we grew it as we understood it before we kind of like taught people how to how to make it exactly how we do and so that was our priority and we called and spent five or six months like trying to find a place.

9:47And about a month before we went on, uh, the show aired, we finally found our own kitchen space that we rented that was fully ours. So we could be there 24 seven. Um, and we found pots that were bigger than spaghetti pots that made the popcorn taste the same way it did when we would make it in spaghetti pots. So all of those things, um, was really, it was really just like every entrepreneur says this, but it's one step at a time. You just have to like solve a problem and then solve the next problem. And that's what we did. And it luckily worked out, but we also had like lots of back orders after and, you know, all this craziness that comes with, you know, high growth.

10:24On the other side of producing more products is also building out the relationships with different farmers who are actually specializing in heirloom variety. So yeah, how did you go about finding new farmers to work with? I feel like we've really been lucky with our farming partners. So as I mentioned earlier, I met the farmer who grew this kernel and they had a large community of farmers around them who they worked with who could, as we grew and they couldn't, you know, grow anymore in their farm, they would work with their neighbors and their friends and their family and different people. And so that part has always, we felt really lucky, been really pretty easy for us, you know?

11:06And I think that was because we made good relationships early on. We like flew out to our farm really early on, played basketball with the kids. Like we had lunch and dinner with them. And I think that those things kind of just built a relationship where people wanted to help us and we were good partners to them. And so that part was lucky. And I think that, you know, we understood how special Heirloom was, but no one was really doing Heirloom popcorn. at the time, you know? And so we could buy a lot and we could scale really, really quickly and to whatever extent we needed to at the time, because it was like less competitive than it is now when people weren't talking about heirloom before.

11:43And another section of the business is the packaging side. I understand from the early days you were packing everything yourself and you were hand stamping to give that authentic, rustic look. So how did you expand on the production and packaging side? Yeah. So after Oprah, Shark Tank saw us and they asked us to go on. And I remember on Shark Tank, we actually still used hand or like when you see our episode, we were using hand stamp bags. And then we've needed a lot. What we use the money for after getting a deal on Shark Tank was pre printed bags because it was hard. You know, like I think we picked a branding.

12:24It was 100 % the right way. I think it like we did a lot with a little. I think that you could see our bags and understand what we were about and you could understand the story when you don't have a lot of marketing dollars. That's so important. But I think that it was the most inefficient packaging that you could ever imagine, right? Like it was a bag in a bag. And then there was, I think, seven stamps and two stickers on each bag by the end. so you can imagine how long that took and how much our hands hurt

12:57but then really to grow from there it was like how do we recreate this look with printed bags how do we tell the same story how do we focus on the ingredient um and uh yeah it was just finding a partner where we could go and we found a great company local to us that we like i remember sitting in the first print and proving all the colors and all of that. When I look back at the journey, so much of it is like having no idea what you're doing, but refusing to stop until you learn what to do. We have so much to get to, and I would love to hear the backstory of your experience on Shark Tank. I'm joined by Jen Martin, co-founder of Pipsnacks.

13:36I hope you're enjoying our conversation. And if you haven't already, please subscribe or follow Shopify masters wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a review or feedback for the show. Thanks. So you get called onto shark tank and you sign a deal with Barbara. Tell us about the whole experience of prepping for the pitch and the aftermath and how it affected the business. Wild. I mean, the whole thing was wild. I remember at the time when, you know, they reached out, they had seen us on Oprah's favorite things and we like went back and forth trying to decide if it was the right thing to do and we were so stressed because we decided the first time they reached out to actually say no because we just weren't ready we were like we're not in enough stores we don't have a story to tell um and we were so scared we were like are we blowing what could be the biggest opportunity in you know our career and all these different things but But the following year, we felt ready and we reached out and they were like, great, apply.

14:38And so we thought we didn't know if we were going to reach back out and they were going to be like, who do you think you are? Like saying no to us and then coming back. But they were lovely. And so the application process was so, so much harder than I could have ever imagined. So at the time, we're still producing everything on our own. We're at the kitchen all day, every day, whether it's popping, cleaning, boxing, doing deliveries, driving, you know, all different places in the tri-state area. But we still have to make these videos. And with Shark Tank, everything has to be super, super top secret.

15:12So we would have to leave the kitchen and find like really quiet places to make our audition tapes. And we would send it in and you have to get your lines right. You have to do a pitch. You have to do all this stuff. And we'd send it in and they'd be like, no, that was like the producer that was trying to help us. It's like way too much energy. And then we'd send again, they're like way too little energy. And so we probably made hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of audition tapes to try to get on. Um, yeah, which is like, you know, at a certain point you get to the point where you're like, what are we doing?

15:41Should we like, we need to go like make this delivery to Whole Foods because we need money. And then we're standing there for four hours trying to be like, Hey, sharks, I'm Jen. You know what I mean? Like, it's like this funny moment where you're like, how do you focus on the future and be in the present at the same time? You know, it's like that it's really hard, but you have to kind of figure out how to do both. They liked our audition and we got flew out there. And we basically, once you get there, there's no guarantee you'll be able to pitch to the sharks either. And we were the last group to go.

16:12And, you know, the people after us sadly didn't even get to present. And so that could have been us. Like we've had so many moments like that where we've just been really lucky because it really changed our lives. You know, You go on the show and you think, oh, it's reality TV. Maybe it's fake, but it's not. They don't know anything about you. You pitch. It's really scary. But we luckily had a really great experience. And we got a deal with Barbara, who is the best shark out there. If anyone's going on Shark Tank, I highly suggest. From there, we got the deal. And then we obviously couldn't say anything.

16:44But we knew we needed to scale 10 times as much as we had just done with Oprah. And so I think we flew out to LA in July. And we aired in November. So we spent the next few months just being like, how do we prepare for this? And how do we make sure we don't blow this opportunity? And I remember the like day we aired, we could barely make payroll. I remember being in the car, like scrounging for change and different stuff and pulling all the money from my bank account and Jeff's and Teresa's to like kind of give to, you know, our employees and who were like helping us pop and prepare. And so that day I remember we could barely make payroll.

17:22And then that night we matched our year before sales, our previous year sales in one night. In just one night? Yeah. Oh, wow.

17:33So it really is like transformative. And I think that it's real. It's not just reality TV. And I think that it like was 100 % the right decision for our brand. And from there, then the next day, you have to then deal with every store calling you thousands of like thousands and thousands, thousands of orders and emails and who you say yes to and who you say no to. And like what, yeah, it would be nice to be in this store, but what can you actually do? And we weren't prepared for it at all. Like it didn't matter how much we had prepared. It like surpassed all that.

18:13what are some steps you take to kind of calm the storm a little bit and handle all that was coming at you i think communication i think that like we were so scared that everyone was going to be upset at us and like are we going to lose these orders and all this stuff that we would you know if we had first day said emailed every single person to order and said hey we got a lot of orders. It's going to be a little bit. Thank you so much. Here's like a coupon for next time. Here's or whatever it is, right? That would have probably been better than eking them out and then emailing people like one at a time when they wrote in.

18:52And then eventually, maybe two weeks later, we sent a mass email, you know, like, I think my advice is really just like, get ahead of it, you know, like communicate to your customers, communicate to the suppliers. When it's that that crazy, right? Like when things are that busy and there's that many orders, even your suppliers, they feel the same way we do about our customers, right? So we'll call them and say, we need more oil. We need more, you know, seasoning, whatever it is. They don't want to lose the business. So they make a promise that maybe like if they had just said, been more realistic, oh, this amount of time versus this amount of time.

19:24And so that sort of, I feel like that ripple effect of communication happens. And not, I mean, our suppliers were amazing. But just like, I think communication is key. I think just communicating where you're at and I think figuring out ways to scale. I think when you have that many orders and you're that behind, you sort of start looking at like, okay, I need to chip away at them rather than trying to make like a plan of like, how do you scale? You know, you start, you get too focused on the like acute problem and you need to zoom out and look at like, if I scale over the next two weeks, I can probably get everything out in two weeks rather than just like hammering in on like a hundred orders a day.

20:09Totally. You need that perspective to zoom out and see the business as a whole and see how each little decision affect the business overall. Yeah. What I find interesting is also before Shark Tank, yourself, Jeff and Teresa only invested a couple thousand dollars of your own money into the business. There weren't a lot of investments coming from outside investors, maybe some family and friends that helped out. So how has the financial journey been since Shark Tank and what tips do you have for founders who are navigating having a healthy runway and looking into relationships with investors? I think it's like having a realistic view on how long you can actually go without investment.

20:55I think that like entrepreneurs, a lot of times we're looking at, we want to maintain ownership for as long as possible to maximize value that you own. But I think that that line of how long you wait can tip to the point where you needed it earlier. You have to just know when you need to raise money and you have to know like a year before you need to raise it because you have to like prep and get everything ready. And so I would say just being realistic and also looking at who you want to partner with in the sense of like where you need help. Being really smart about do you need help with your farming relationships?

21:36Do you need agriculture help? Do you need strategic help? Do you need just money that you know is going to be consistent money that you don't have to go to anyone else? Knowing what area, if you could have somebody come in and help, because I think that money is great and you need it, but you need so much more support throughout the years. And your partner really is like, it is that you're a partner, right? You're not just taking money, you're getting a partner. And so being really clear about where you lack or what the business is lacking and what you could gain would be my recommendation because I think that that will allow you to have the best success.

22:16Because I think that a lot of times we look at just ownership and holding on instead of the future and growth and what it actually looks like to get there. For Pipsnacks in 2019, you did receive venture capital funding around$6 million. What about that year or that timeframe made sense for taking investment and what qualities were you looking for in these investors? Well, like you said, we hadn't raised institutional money outside of like Shark Tank for the seven years we were in business, which is a long time. And through this growth we had and for how big our company was, was a really big deal.

22:58but we were just ready. We needed it. And our partners at Factory, what they do was their whole model is basically they have industry experts in different fields. So they have a marketing team and a sales team and an operations team, and they help plug you into their team. And so at the time, we were still a small, we were about five people running this multi-million dollar company making so much popcorn like every single day it was really attractive to us to find somebody who could become part of our team who we could like lean on to learn different things or to help us expand our warehouses or operations and so that's really was a lot of the draw to who we ended up taking money from another side i find very interesting is also your approach to approaching different small boutique retailers in the beginning and getting to know them, showcasing the snacks.

23:56So tell us about building out those relationships and finding those key distributors in the early days. The early days are always so fun. Like I love talking about the early days. I love looking back at the early days because it really is so much relationship building on such a personal level. Like we would look for, you know, at the time, again, And we were in coffee bags and we had a very like boutique look to our product. And so for us, we were like perfect for coffee shops and hotels and high end grocery stores and like little markets, cheese stores. And so we would basically I remember just like getting on Yelp and I would like put in cheese store and I would look up cheese store Philly, cheese store, you know, different city across the country.

24:46and different coffee shops and all this stuff. And I would just reach out to them and I would reach out to them and send them snacks and send them a personal email and call, go see them. And that's really how we grew it. And I feel like that was so important because that's where in the cities, that's where you're going to get your like little treat that like is your comfort that you build an emotional relationship for, right? Like you're going to your friend's house and you're like, oh, I'll pick something up at the corner. And then you bring that over and you introduce it to a friend. And that's what Pipcorn was a lot of times.

25:17You're on your way home or you're having a hard time at work. So you go get a coffee and you see the snack and you form an emotional relationship. You go to a cute beach town and we're at that hotel or at that roadside stand. And then we're your emotional dream vacation snack. And that was really our marketing. We didn't have dollars to spend on ads or influencers or anything like that. And so we looked at it that way. And that was really, really beneficial. We basically like would grow the brand in these like high end specialty stores. And then as we got into the grocery store, then you go home, you do your normal shopping and you're, you see the snack.