How Fur's Founders Pioneered a New Beauty Category Through Trust and Persistence

0:00Just get something out there, you know, minimum viable product, have it like stick against the wall. And I think that's well-meaning advice. I think it can work for a lot of people, but I definitely feel like for a consumer brand, you really do have to create the positioning and the world that your product will sit in. Hey, what's up, everyone? It's Schweng Esther Shan, your host here at Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and building a business. Have you ever wondered why intimate care products used to look like they belong in a medical supply closet? Today's guests asked this very question before creating luxury products for an area that nobody wanted to talk about.

0:42Meet Laura Schubert and Lillian Tong, childhood friends turned co-founders of fur. They turned a$10 ,000 investment into a multi-million dollar beauty empire by daring to go where no brand has gone before. Since 2015, fur has been pioneering the intimate skincare category. Yes, that's right. Fur sells grooming products for all over, including your pubic hair. From getting ghosted by manufacturers to landing on the shelves of Ulta Beauty, they are here to share how they built a taboo-breaking brand, all while remaining self-funded. Laura and Lillian, welcome to the show. Thank you for having us.

1:26Thank you. Laura, Lillian, so great to have you here and very excited to talk about fur because back in 2015 when you first started this company, this was a white space and we weren't talking about pubic hair in public. So what made you confident to think that consumers were ready for this conversation and these products? For sure. Well, I mean, my journey with fur started back in 2013, 2014. I was talking to my sister actually about pubic hair, body hair. What were you doing? What were other people doing? And we just, I really found that like people weren't talking about it. Like they were really saying either, you know, I remove all my hair below the eyebrows, but there weren't any resources.

2:10And I just didn't really understand why, you know, again, like I have short hair. Some people have long hair. Some people have shorter hair. You dye your hair. Like body, you know, your head hair is somewhere where people can express themselves differently and everything is clean and acceptable. And then I felt like once you went on from head hair, there really was this sense of stigma, this sense of taboo, this sense of lack of cleanliness potentially with hair. And so I just really – I didn't know why. I wanted products to deal with my hair, to handle any ingrowns or any issues that may come up with hair removal if you choose to remove your hair.

2:46And I just really – I didn't feel like there were products out there that were addressing this concern. I didn't feel like the necessary conversations were happening. and, you know, I wanted to create a place to have them. And so that's when I called Lillian, my best friend from seventh grade, who was already a beauty marketer and, you know, told her about this idea. And Lillian, what about this idea that got you really excited? Yeah, I think it really comes from personal need, which is what, you know, Laura is saying. It's like, you know, she was looking for pubic hair care and at that time pubic hair care meant only one thing, which is removing it.

3:18So she came to me in 2014 and I thought I was in beauty And we all know booty is super competitive. There's so much product out there. Everyone's chasing the next consumer. And I was extremely skeptical about this idea of creating a brand that targeted taking care of your body hair. To me, that felt like another step, another product, another dollar that you have to spend. And also just convincing the consumer that, you know, this is another thing that they're going to have to tackle. But Laura being, you know, an entrepreneur through and through was like, yeah, I see your point, but let's keep trying.

3:55Like she just kept going at it and came to me one holiday party at her house with a formula of our now iconic fur oil. And she's like, just try it. Like you love product, just try it. And I was like, okay, fine, I'll try it. And what I discovered is it was a beautiful product through and through. I just felt like the oil did what she said it did. It was something that had legs. And on top of that, we were also starting to talk about this idea with more people, not just the two of us. And when we talked about pubic hair care, it was really interesting because people either really loved it and got it right away, or they were like me and said, that doesn't make any sense.

4:37There was nothing in the middle. And I was a marketer. I love that. I love the fact that there was an immediate reaction, whether it was positive or negative. That's okay. hey, at least you have something to start with. And we had something to start with in 2015. Yeah. It sounded like it was polarizing, but I think to your point, when you can enlicit those emotions, it means that you have something there and people are actually kind of intrigued and excited. So what were your first steps to take this formula that you were tinkering with and actually try to scale it and also share this idea with the public?

5:13Well, so even before, so this little blue bottle that I gave to Lillian at my holiday party, even that was sort of part of the, you know, journey. I mean, I actually started with a list of about 50 cosmetic chemists that I found on Google. And I called all of them up. And I pitched my idea. And I said, you know, I'm going to create a pubic hair oil. And a lot of them hung up on me. And they thought it was a prank call. They thought I wasn't serious. But some people picked the phone back up. And they said, actually, you know, you're right. No one is doing this. People having grown hairs, everyone's either growing or removing their body hair.

5:47You know, this isn't that crazy. And so one of the people I called said, you know, our minimum order quantities are far too high for what you're looking for, but you should call this person. And that's actually how I was connected with the chemist who developed the formula with me and sort of who still works with us today. And so it was really about, you know, just calling these 50 folks and, you know, seeing, okay, if you can't help me, who can? And so this chemist who worked with us actually helped us to create the first thousand for oils and stubble creams. We actually launched with two products that we still carry in our line today.

6:20And we made a thousand of them and we stored them in my house. And we fulfilled them by hand out of Lillian's house because Lillian lived across the street from the post office. And so that is sort of how we got off to the races. And you know what's also interesting, though, is getting – Laura highlights something. Because oftentimes when we first started, people were like, oh, did you just like mix up a bunch of oils in your kitchen together and like just try it? When we created this company, we were like, if we are going to tackle the stigma around pubic hair care and create this category, we have to do it in a way that is, you know, really quality, really legitimate and done with excellence.

6:59And so, you know, even when it was just an idea for Laura, I'm not involved. She was calling the chemists. We've always had a chemist involved. We've always been abiding by EU standards for beauty products. We've always kept clean ingredients. We've always done dermatological and gynecological testing because when you're going to introduce this category and have a consumer trust this product, we felt like it was very important to invest our time and money to ensure that this was a trustworthy product from start to finish. You laid a really solid foundation. And also, I love the story of persistence and not giving up when people are hanging up on you.

7:40I think that's such an easy point for people to turn back around. And I think what's special here is you self-funded that initial production and for remains to be self-funded to this day, which is really incredible. on the financial side, how did you set yourself up where you're able to create your own runway and build and grow at a pace that you're comfortable with? Well, part of it is, I mean, I guess that initial sort of strategy and the initial way we did this did sort of set the tone for the way we operate to this day, which is, you know, we set it up with, again, a professional chemist, someone who could, you know, scale as, you know, to the moon, but we made a thousand units and we said, you know what, let's set up a website ourselves.

8:26And so Lillian actually built our first Shopify site. And then, you know, we tried to sell those units and we said, you know, if we can't sell these units, well, then there's nothing there, but, you know, we sold them quickly. And so we're really all about test and learn and about, you know, what can we, being super professional, being in a position to scale if it works, but also, you know, folding if it's not the thing either. So I think we've just always been extremely disciplined about test and learn and capital. And I think like not having external investments trains you to be profitable. To your point, if there's no demand, then you can't have an injection of VC or other investors to try to enlisted people to try your product.

9:09So I think that's such an interesting and healthy way to kind of kickstart a new company like this. It also forces discipline prioritization, especially at the start. So in our first year, we spent money, like literally the cash in our bank account that we put in, we spent it on the 2000 products Laura talked about. We spent it on all that testing that we talked about. And the only other thing we spent it on was PR. Like to Laura's point, we were fulfilling it by hand. I was building the Shopify site, you know, like Laura was sourcing packaging. We spent it on PR because that just goes back to the whole thing about legitimizing a beauty category.

9:46But that was it. It was ruthless prioritization on the expenses. And still to this day, it's expenses and it's time. And to Lillian's point about trust, that was why we thought PR was a great investment for us at the start because we didn't want to be a joke. We were introducing products and creating a taboo category. And we knew we had one chance to get it right. And so we really thought by working with a PR agent, by talking to beauty editors who would give us a shot, that that would be really important in launching the category, getting it on the right foot, and being taken seriously when we were doing something that no one had done before.

10:25So PR had a big impact in First Success, and the landscape has changed a lot in the last decade. But for new founders who want to invest in it today, what's your advice? I think PR has not narrowed. It has expanded. So that's a good and a bad thing, I guess, is the best way to put it. And being strategic about what PR really means, right? So for us, we're like, we need to be legitimate in beauty. So we were hyper-focused on beauty editors. Like beauty editors, that was it. There was no business. We weren't really looking for business press because we weren't looking for fundraise. We really weren't looking for like brand awareness in terms of influencers because again, we were looking for that expert angle.

11:10And again, that was also not as much of the rise of like the content creator landscape. So I would say now that it's wider, you still have, of course, your beauty editors. Maybe they're a little bit more online. Maybe they blur the lines a little bit more between influencer and expert. is to figure out what element you're going for within the PR landscape and then go after it because you can't go after all of it. And they don't necessarily want the same things. Like if it's gifting, if it's testing, if it's eventing, if it's a press release, if it, whatever that is, if it's, you know, like those bigger roundups, really figure out like what you're looking for with your press strategy.

11:52I think it's very hard to talk about anything taboo. So how did you balance talking about pubic hair while still building a brand that is very elegant and sophisticated? What approaches did you take to develop your brand identity? It was actually a little bit of a debate. So the way you think about fur and body hair and pubic hair is we could have taken two different directions. You could have taken the rebellious in your face, body hair, bushes back, scream it. But that also is really not in line with Laura and my philosophy on what fur should be, how people should think about body hair, and also how we want our business to be run.

12:31We're here for the long haul. If you do that, that's very of the moment. That's really in your face, and it's not something that's timeless. The other tack to take is exactly what we've done at Fur, which is keep it elegant, keep it inviting, keep it open so that people will have the conversation that something, whatever you're talking about body hair is a moment of pride, but internal pride and not sort of bragging and showing off in people's faces. That being said, from a PR perspective and even sort of a brand awareness perspective, you're not going to have that hard hitting in your face splash as immediately because it's just, you know, people are attracted to bright, shiny, loud objects.

13:18And that's not what we wanted to do for fur. We wanted to make sure that everything was just beautifully curated, well-designed inside and out so that you would feel proud of whatever you're doing for your body hair. I think also on brand identity, I mean, we were very inspired by YSL and Chanel. Again, this idea of timelessness and also back to this idea of trust, which I think has always really motivated us, creating a safe space, an elegant space where people could examine and reframe their own thoughts about what can be a shameful topic for some people, or maybe people have had negative experiences with body hair in the past.

13:53And so we really wanted to, again, make this safe, elevated space where it's like, this is a serious topic, this is a serious product. We're still fun, but we can talk about it and we can, again, bring light to this issue. So we really wanted to do that through the identity. I'd also say at the time, and this is a little less true today, I think, than it was 10 years ago, but there was this thought that, oh, just get something out there, minimum viable product, have it stick against the wall. And I think that's well-meaning advice. I think it can work for a lot of people, but I definitely feel like for a consumer brand, you really do have to create the positioning and the world that your product will sit in, or it's not giving it a fair shake.

14:36And so I think that's something that we spend almost a year creating the packaging, creating the world. Our packaging hasn't changed that much in the last 10 years. And so I really think at least for us and for what we were doing, I'm really glad that we did invest that time in creating the brand world and brand identity upfront. That's really interesting to hear that it took a year, but the packaging remained very much similar to how you started. And I have to say like the packaging to this day still looks timeless and modern and it doesn't feel dated at all. So what were some of the exercises you were doing in that year to ensure that you're nailing down on the packaging and the branding?

15:17Because I feel like there must've been like a lot of debate going back and forth on finalizing the design? Yeah, well, I think this is one that's going to be trust your instincts and your gut. So there was a lot. Well, everything from the name down to the packaging, down to the brand, I mean, all of that. It was almost like when we knew, we knew. I don't know how many names, for example, for fur we went through before the moment we got fur. We're like, yeah, that makes so much sense. Like it's beautiful. It's the intersection between hair and skin. It's something that's just enveloping. Let's take care of our own fur.

15:55Like when we knew, we knew. Other things, we would have sort of, you know, logo and font and color and packaging, shapes and sizes, all that stuff. And it's so subjective that I think Laura and I felt we needed to ask more people and people who had done it longer. And Laura, I don't know if Laura, you remember this, but like so many people told us that that iconic sphere that is our number one seller for oil was a terrible idea. Industry veterans always told us it was a bad idea, but we spent the time, we lived with it in our bathroom. We lived with it, holding it, taking photos of it. And it just felt right.

16:35And it's, and I, you know, it's fine now, like that we spent so much time, like listening to other people. Like, but at the end of the day, we went with our gun. We're like, no, this is actually the world. Like we want it to be like a cool toned gold. Like it's got to feel like a vintage fragrance. It's got to be an iconic object that you're proud to hold in your hand. And at the same time, we could only make 1000. So we couldn't have everything in the world for everything we wanted. Like, you know, the box has to look a certain way. We have to shoot our campaign a certain way. We don't have endless budget, but we still made sure like everything we did and we chose at the end of the day was what Laura and I wanted, despite running it by lots of people.

17:11And sometimes the conventional wisdom, I mean, one of the major things, two major problems that people had with, again, the packaging that we have to this day, one is that we used a sphere. So actually just, you know, geometrically spheres look smaller than they are. And so the fill in our bottle is actually quite large compared to the appearance. And so again, conventional wisdom and beauty is you want a really tall, skinny bottle because then it'll look like you're selling more product. And so, you know, they thought we were crazy for using this sphere, but we said, look, this is a new category.

17:41This is a special, you know, ritual. And it just really felt right to us. But that was definitely, you know, not what a beauty expert would tell you. And the other thing that we think is even more, well, I don't know if it's even more important. I love our sphere. But, you know, we put on the initial box for pubic hair and skin. And that remains on the box of the fur oil to this day. And again, very well-meaning people, beauty insiders said, you know, even major retailers said, we love the product. We love you. You know, we really want to carry this, take pubic off the front of the box and we will do so.

18:15And we thought really carefully about that as a self-funded business. And we did not do it because then, you know, you destroy the mission, you destroy, you know, everything we're fighting for here to de-stigmatize pubic hair and skin and body hair. And so we didn't do either of those things. And I would say that both of those recommendations were extremely well-meaning and definitely the right things to recommend. Really standing behind the stance you've taken. And I think that also translates, moving away from your brand, you're also sticking to that with every single message you do have through marketing to make it that it's a marketing moment, but also So it's starting conversations and making it approachable while eliciting the feeling of a premium product.

19:04So there's a bunch of things that you're balancing through marketing. How are you thinking about social channels and marketing today? Through 10 years in business, it's changed a lot. Thinking about our initial investment in PR, and you're totally right that PR has changed a lot in the last decade. You know, the rise of Instagram, the rise of TikTok, the ban of TikTok. I don't know where things are going next. So I think a lot of it is, again, this test and learn mentality and prioritization, I think, is important and will be increasingly important in marketing because I think we're at a – I believe we're at a pivotal moment right now.

19:42You literally took the words out of my mouth. I was going to say test and learn. I mean, you have to be where your eyeballs are going to be and your consumer is going to be, but you don't know what's going to stick on the different channels that you're presenting yourself to. And so it's just test and learn and being nimble and agile. And also, to that point, people are like, oh, fur has really high brand standards. Yeah, we do. But you also can't be beholden to them and handcuff yourself and your company and your team with overly strict brand guidelines because, again, different channels have different needs.

20:17And you have to have the freedom and flexibility to test and learn. I love that because I think testing and iterating is core to how fur has grown, whether it's product or staying active on social channels or marketing. What other areas we haven't talked about that you've tested and iterated that has really helped to change the business? I think our channel strategy. So, of course, our Shopify G2C site is, you know, the home of fur. However, we also operate a fur professionals website. So for, you know, professional estheticians. also Shopify. And then we also have great retail partnerships that we've grown over the years.

20:56And again, I think that comes out of being self-funded and, you know, needing to get dollars in the door from day one and work with the different retailers. And so I think that prepared us to, again, when we think about different social media channels, we think about different ways the brand can show up. And it's similar for our different retail channels as well, including our D2C site, which is where, again, we really want our calling card to remain. And I love you mentioned that there's also this retail component because first started off very grassroots, door to door, going to different spas and actually pitching the products and talking to expectations.

21:34What's the advice there when you're early on in your business journey and you actually have to like talk to potential customers and pitch your idea? I'd say, like, listen, your biggest brand advocates may not be who you think they're going to be. Because that's what we figured out really early on when we first launched. We thought we were just, just, we were a consumer-focused brand. And it would be, you know, brand comms, brand communications going out and captivating a consumer audience, you know, like a one-to-one exchange. It turns out when we first went out, the people who were most receptive are these professional estheticians who offer waxing services in an upscale salon.

22:20Whether they're a one-person business or slightly bigger than that, they were the ones that actually understood the importance of fighting ingrowns, taking care of your body hair as it grows back or for whatever you're keeping. And they became the biggest advocates. Not only were they consumers, but they were the biggest advocates because they're the ones that have the time and the motivation to speak to their clients and magnify the effect of what our brand story is about. And so that wasn't learning for us, but the realization of that and then embracing of that over the last 10 years has been really important to the growth.

22:56So I would say sort of just like paying attention to where your biggest brand fans really are. And it might be multiple sources. And our first customer service email ever was actually from a professional waxer who said, you know, who actually has a chain of salons, a really successful businesswoman. She said, finally, you know, I've been working so hard to make this amazing upscale experience for my customers for the last 10 years. And here's a brand that understands that. And that, you know, again, valorizes, creates a safe space for conversations about body hair. And that's what I've been trying to do too.

23:28And so that's sort of how we found them and they found us. Yeah. And that's amazing to hear because it started off in those one-to-one relationships that grew over the years. And I feel like that also kind of allows you to grow in your omnichannel presence and you've grown to end up on the shelves of Alta and also work with Goop. So talk to us about developing those bigger relationships with retailers. You can't just make products. You have to have a brand in order to partner with these larger retailers. Products, I mean, anyone could make a product and that's, actually, I think that's not the story.

24:07That's not what you're selling. And that's not how you're helping each other with larger retailers, right? Like they're going to help you with larger reach and validity, but then your brand has to help them in a certain capacity. So what your brand stands for, before you can like really engage in those conversations, You have to have real clarity as to who your consumer is, what makes your brand different, and how that's going to either bring in a new customer for these retailers or just expand their basket for their consumer. The second thing is when you're starting with these much bigger retailers as a small bootstrapped individual brand run by me and Laura is they are enormous and they – you as a company, we as a company, when we started engaging with them, you have to make sure you're like – you've dotted your I's and crossed your T's for all the operational back-end lifting things.

25:06It's not as easy as just launching with them. And it's, you know, there's a sliding scale of that, right? Like Whoop and Credo versus Alta and Sephora. There's definitely nuances to that. And also launch is one thing, but it is a true partnership. And A, sometimes that means saying no, which is really hard. You know, as a small brand, you know, we want to do every opportunity, but, you know, it's very expensive to work with major retailers and we try to do everything we can, take advantage of every opportunity. And sometimes we just have to say no because it's just too expensive and we can't do it.

25:40And I'd also say we always think about with our marketing how are we taking care of these customers? How are we driving people into store? Because to Lillian's point, it's one thing to get on that shelf and it's a very different thing to stay on that shelf. Mm-hmm. And has there been like pitching or like things you've learned from the early days of working with spas and estheticians that you carry towards pitching bigger retailers or advice of just like maintaining and growing with those relationships over the years? I think these smaller business owners, like in the esthetician space, they're so on the cutting edge of like what's beauty.