How Mackage Went Global While Staying True to Its Roots

0:00Don't be scared to sometimes swim against the current. You need people, you know, that invent stuff. So at McCash, we were daring to test stuff. But when something worked, we just made it even better.

0:20Welcome to Shopify On Location. I'm Shuang Esther Shan. This week, we're continuing our series in Montreal. Many agree that Montreal is the fashion capital of Canada. It's on the cutting edge of style, but it's also very cold for most of the year. And this poses an interesting challenge for designers. Iran El Fassi is the founder and chief creative officer of Makaj. The company's jackets are known for their iconic silhouettes and functional warmth. Celebrities like Meghan Markle, Gwyneth Paltrow, and Madonna wear Makaj. We're delighted to have Aran joining us today to talk about how he fostered a company culture that encourages pushing the boundaries of fabrics and fashion.

1:08Aran, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. It's a pleasure to come here and to meet you in person as well. Well, it's a pleasure to chat with you. When I was still a student, I remember volunteering at Toronto Fashion Week and seeing some of the macaw shows. So it's a beautiful full circle moment for myself. That's amazing. Yes, we used to do Toronto Fashion Week back in the days, I guess, pretty much like when we started. And then eventually, as we wanted to be global, we really wanted to show pretty much what Canadian designers could do. So we went a bit more global and we went to do New York Fashion Week, which was very exciting.

1:48And the idea is really to show the Canadian talent outside Canada. And so much of Canadian talent is not just about beautiful pieces, it's also creating functional pieces, which is at the heart of Makaj. Can you tell us what you were wanting to create when you started Makaj? So I would say when I kind of started Maquage, I felt there was a gap in the market, especially, you know, in the outerwear world. I felt that, you know, we put a lot of attention to the clothes we were wearing, but nobody really paid attention to their coats. The coats had only one thing in mind, keep you warm.

2:32But fashion was like kind of secondary. So when you did get a coat, the first thing you wanted to do is you wanted to take it off. Back then, I would say tailored fits were really, really in. So really close to the body, Tom Ford time. You know, it's like very slim, tight shoulder, very nice silhouettes. So the idea was, is like, how come nobody's making a coat that has a fashion statement? And that was the biggest point where we kind of realized there was a big miss in the market. So you had either companies that were doing fashion, but then your jacket, you would wear them and they were beautiful, but you'd freeze.

3:10Or you had to wear those. I know that oversized now is in, but, you know, I would call it the Michelin man type of jacket. It wouldn't, it would make you look sporty. So if a girl was dressed up or whatever it is, it would just ruin the outfit. So the idea was to build a silhouette that's actually functional, warm, that you don't want to take it off. It actually completes your outfit. So that was pretty much the core of when we kind of started. I started basically in leather because my brothers had a small company of leather jackets. And they weren't doing fashionable stuff. And it wasn't about warmth.

3:45So I'd like to say I started in leather. And with that, it went very well. So we did tailored. We did tailored clothing, tailored leather jackets, skirts, pants. and that's how eventually I realized there was a niche in the market that nobody was tapping on and it was like how to develop outerwear but just like an outerwear brand that has the fashion and function. For sure. And I think this is what really made us stand out because nobody was doing it. So important because four or five months out of the year in Montreal, you have to wear a jacket. So it makes it a much more enjoyable and fashionable experience.

4:24For those who don't really know about the Montreal fashion scene and the style, tell us about Montreal and its style. So I think what's really interesting about Montreal is the fact that it's probably one of the only cities in North America that still has a European kind of look to it and taste. We are in North America, but yet we have this kind of little taste that comes kind of European. and the fusion between this like city in North America with a bit of a European taste by just having the French people speaking just creates a multicultural place that really affects our design. So when you look at our designs, you know, sometimes you look at American brands and all that, but you could really tell they're American.

5:08When people look at Macash, sometimes they're not sure. Is it an American company? Is it a Canadian company? Is it a European company? Because we really like to fuse everything together. I would call it like we're multicultural, the way our design look and feel is. It's really a blend of all of those different influences. Yes, definitely. And also, it's interesting to be based out of Montreal as well. It is a smaller market. And you mentioned that there was a tradition with leather goods, especially with your family and experience. So how did you take the knowledge of what you knew from your suppliers and those relationships to actually build on that and create something new?

5:56So I think one of the thing is, is I always wanted to see a customer that's extremely satisfied. So I believe that always was pushing the boundaries. I got kicked out of factories. They tell me that's not how we do it. We cannot do it this way. That doesn't work. You cannot mix leather and wool. and I was always like, I guess, being young and having a bit less fear in what we're doing and being an entrepreneur where your mind is fully open, you know? So I wanted to experience and to like kind of mix materials. And I was refused in many factories back then. They're like, no, you cannot do what this is.

6:29You need a leather specialist and here you need a wool specialist. And I'm like, why can't we combine them? Like, no, it's not how it goes. You cannot, we can't sew for you. So literally we built a tiny little factory just with like five people two people specialized in leather, three people specialized in wool. And we started doing stuff that people weren't doing, you know, so we started combining. And the reason why we did that is like, you know, in fashion, the trend is like kind of changing. Sometimes it's a leather trend, another time it's a downtrend, then it's a wool trend. And I remember I was talking to somebody and they're like, when we used to just do leather and he's like, yeah, but, you know, in seven years, leather is going to come back.

7:05And I'm like, but I'm not waiting seven years, you know, what are we going to do for the next? But wool is in, so I want to do wool. and then I was like I have all this knowledge in leather why shouldn't I bring it into the wool world because it's like really people used to be specialists but not specialists in mixing so I think one of the most important to kind of succeed is that number one you got to explore you know number two it's like don't be scared to sometimes swim against the current you know you need people you know that invent stuff so I would say at Macash, we invented so many things that people use today in the artwork that they don't even know that came from us.

7:41And I think it's because we were daring to test stuff, to do mistakes at the same time. Some things worked well, some things didn't work. But when something worked, we just made it even better. And when it didn't work, then we moved on to the next thing. And I think that's the importance, like even mixing down. When we started doing tailored silhouettes, it was like, people were like, you can't do tailored silhouette with down. And I was like, why not? And I guess almost the lack of knowledge was actually what kind of helped us. And not being scared to test. You know, because I feel like in life, people sometimes put boundaries around people.

8:15It's like, oh, no, you can't. Why can't you? You know? It's like so many things. Like, I feel like in every business, a lot of people, like, sometimes it just takes one person to change the way you kind of think. And then everybody else follows.

8:37What we did get from Canada, a part of just like being from Montreal, Canada, is we do know cold winters. You know, nobody knows cold winters like we do. And in Montreal, you get really the cold. And especially because it's a city that you also walk. So we learned that how do we make that jacket that at the same time is like, you know, fashion and you get the function or if it's rainy that you're not walking in the rain. And you're all wet, but you still look fashionable. And I've bought some very, very nice jackets from luxury brands. And I was like, oh, this is great. And then I wore it in the rain and then I was all wet.

9:14So I was like, so I look like I'm wearing a trench coat. It gives me the look, but it doesn't give me the functionality. So it's almost like I'm disguised as like I'm wearing a rain jacket, but it's not for the rain. So I was like, we need to specialize. So basically we took and we started to specialize in every division of outerwear. and we wanted to become also focused because people are thinking, oh, you should do pants, you should do clothing, you should do this. It's amazing. My cash is great. And we kind of tried, but then we realized that the best thing in life is also being focused. And sometimes when you start going a bit everywhere and lose your focus, I guess it's sometimes when you sometimes lose it.

9:54So you need to always remember your roots. What's the goal? And staying focused and staying on track as what you want to get to. I want to dig into what you mentioned about the early days of approaching manufacturers and suppliers because it's crazy to think about. Now, all over America, I think the iconic Makaj silhouette is worn by so many people. Form-fitting, beautiful large hood. You take a look outside in winter, you can spot someone wearing a Makaj jacket. So it's hard to believe that you got so much pushback when you're talking to suppliers and manufacturers in the beginning. So for new founders starting out, they might have a cool idea and they're trying to talk to industry leaders or industry manufacturers and they're having a hard time and they're in a negotiation.

10:44What advice do you have when they're in that situation? I could tell you I wanted to quit so many times at the beginning. The beginning is hard. You know, it's very hard. Because like that's when you learn the most, I would say, is really at the beginning. You actually learn all the time. Like even today, I wish I know what I know today versus yesterday. I guess if you have a good idea, don't give up. You know, it's very important not to give up. It's very important to really identify what you're doing and really seeing the gap of what's missing in the market. And I think that what made us successful is that we were stubborn and we did not give up.

11:20I used to call one person. I don't want to say her name, but it's funny because I called her so many times to show her the collection. And at a certain point, she picked up her phone and she's like, listen, I only buy very high-end brands. I'm not interested. And I need you to stop calling me and filling up my voicemail. And I told her, listen, I promise you, like when I designed what I designed, the first store I saw in my mind was this is the store where we should sell. This is where I want to go buy it. This is like that's the perfect place. She goes, listen, and she was referring because she knew the mother company, which is my brother's company.

12:01And she was like, I know what you guys do. It's not for us. I'm like, no, no, no. It's very different. She's like, listen, I don't have the time. I'm like, please, I promise you, I will stop filling up your voicemail. if you just give me the chance to meet you and to show you what I do. And she was like, listen, come tomorrow during my lunchtime, between one and two, and I'm going to give you 10 minutes. So just be there. And after that, please don't call me.

12:37I was persistent. You know, I knew that I had what they needed. And I went there and I brought some of the jackets. I didn't know the terms of business. I really didn't. You learn probably a 10, 15 % fundamental in school. But then the 85 % afterwards, it's going to be what you're going to learn really in life and working. You have the fundamentals, but there's so many things I didn't know. So she's like, okay, when is this for? And I was like, whenever you want it. She's like, I already finished buying for a year from now. And I was like, okay, but you like it? She goes, I like it, but I don't have budget anymore.

13:15So I'm like, what is budget? I'm like, I had no clue what she's talking about. And finally she goes, listen, it's nice, but maybe next season come see me. And I was like, oh, I'm like, that's it. After this, I'm probably quitting. And then the owner of the company ends up walking down the hallway and he sees one of the jackets. And he stops and he's like, that's the color I was looking for. and is like, can I get a swatch of this? And when are we getting those jackets? When are we getting them? I love this one. It's so beautiful. When are we getting them? She looks at me and she goes, how fast can you get them for us?

13:57And I was like, three weeks maybe? Wow. She's like, okay, here's your order. And make me 48 pieces. Like I said at the beginning, nobody wanted to sew for us. So I took sample makers and I had like two Italian girls, you know, in their 60s, 70s. And they were kind of sewing and I was like helping. And I stayed all night. And I could tell you they worked from 8 a.m. with me till like midnight because they wanted to finish it. They saw how devoted I was and how hardworking I was and how I was with them that they helped me. And we finished it on time and we sent them the goods and they sold out over one weekend.

14:34And that's where the moment I had, like I was like almost going to quit. I was losing confidence at a certain point. You know, you think you're going to do amazing and incredible. And you're like, this is nobody has it out there. You get shut down a few times and you're about to like. And then all of a sudden, you know, you just got to continue pushing. And from that moment, it just gave me back my confidence that I have. And then, of course, selling out in like a weekend, you know, that was probably the best thing I could have got. Like it was different. It wasn't something that we're used to seeing in the market.

15:07So people were like kind of interested. And when they sold it, then she became almost a very good friend. And then she tells that story to everybody. He was so annoying. People told me, your voicemail is full. I can't leave your message. This little guy doesn't stop calling me. And I was 19. So when you look at it this way, there's a good thing about being young. You know, you don't have yet to experience. So you're, I would say, you're almost like fearless and you're testing more. And then as you get the experience, everything is almost like a sure thing, you know. But then you almost lose the innovation part because you kind of learn what works and what doesn't work.

15:46But this is why you need to bring new people in the company and younger people that come with a new perspective. You know, so when I came to the market, I was refused everywhere. So I wanted to make sure is how do we listen to the new generation and what's their needs? You know, and I'm not going to say I'm old, you know, I'm young. But, you know, like the newest generation is what we need to build upon. And you need to kind of teach them and also learn from them at the same time. So that's, for me, something that was also very important in the company to have people involved. They have to be really involved.

16:19Well, I love that story because it shows so much perseverance and also this optimism that you had to keep on going. And I'm very excited to chat about creativity and fostering that in your team. I'm chatting with Iran El Fassi, founder and chief creative officer of Makaj. By the way, thank you so much for listening to this series of Shopify on location in Montreal. After the episode, please do us a favor and leave us a review or rate the show wherever you're listening and share with your friends. It really helps us out. Thank you so much. So, as you mentioned, you know that new generation, new team members, they bring a new sense of creativity.

17:05So how do you go about fostering that? I guess transparency. People need to be involved. See the results. You know, understand what's going on. And I think is working as a team and really having, you know, not being like almost like a dictator. It's like really having an open table where we could discuss, you know, the pros, the cons. What are we missing? What are we having? And really get people involved in their work. So once people are involved, it's not a nine to five job anymore. You know, like, you know, in the creative world, sometimes we sit with people and we look at the watch and we're like, oh, my God, it's 8 p.m.

17:40Okay, maybe it's time to go eat or something. It's just because they need to love what they do. And to love what they do, you need to, I would say, engage them at the same time, but also involve them in everything. So they really understand what they do as a difference. And they're not just there. You know that whatever their job is, is very important to the growth of this company. And that they could see how they impacted the company as well. What I love that you are doing with the team is that you're giving the chance, whether you're in accounting, legal or design, they have a chance to wear the jackets, actually give you feedback and be a part of the discussion.

18:22Yeah, so we were always growing, like I would say, like double digits. But then at a certain point, we're like doubling ourselves. And, you know, growing, doubling your cells when you're small, it's easier. But then as you're getting much bigger, you know, the percentages, it's a bigger number. So we were very focused at the beginning of Montreal winter. But at the same time, we wanted to be global. So as we wanted to become global, there was pros and cons. Our jackets, they became too warm for certain countries, you know, but they liked the look of them. They like the silhouette, but they're like, I don't get minus 30 here or minus 20.

18:57The reason how I realized that I was in Paris and I was wearing a coat, one of our big coats. And, you know, in most of Canada, the walls are insulated. Once you're indoors, it's about 22 degrees. Going into Europe, I was bringing the same clothing. So I'm in Paris and I'm wearing a T-shirt, you know, or a light shirt, you know, with nothing under and my big jacket. I'm going outside and I am warm and I'm so happy to walk like this. It's great. Then we go into a meeting with a marketing company and then I'm sitting down there and then I take off my jacket and then I'm freezing inside. So then I put back my jacket, but then I'm hot.

19:37I take off my jacket, I put back my jacket and then I look at everybody else and I'm like, why am I the only one taking on and off?

19:48then I realized that in Europe people wear layers but small jackets because inside the walls are not insulated you know they're all older buildings so there's no insulation so it's like 17 16 degrees so they still need to kind of be dressed warm and it's like humid at the same time so when I came back to Canada I was like guys the people that are buying our jackets in Europe it's not necessarily people that live, let's say in Paris, they're not necessarily people that live in Paris. It's they live in other countries where it's colder. We're not really getting the French customer because it's too warm for them.

20:21So then I came back to Canada and I made a wardrobe and everybody in the company could come and choose a jacket and wear it and tell us how they feel. And they had to basically reply to a survey. That's all you had to. You could choose a jacket and you'd be like, were you warm? Were you comfortable? Were you too hot? How good was it? What temperature did Did you wear it? And did you wear it inside, outside? And, you know, that was basically making people test our jackets. And especially when they go on trips, I would make them take a jacket. So I'm like, look, where are you going? Are you going to Japan?

20:51Take a jacket. And they would come back with their comments. And those comments would help us to do the design. And that's how we get everybody involved as well. From the accountant, to the legal, to the sales, to shipping. You know, everybody had the chance to test the jacket and give their feedback. I really love that because I think it's like if you are someone who works in a restaurant, you got to taste all of the menu in order to actually be able to showcase the different dishes. So similar, you're making sure everyone on the team has a chance to experience and also provide feedback. Yeah.

21:27And, you know, it's like you said at a restaurant, like you don't want to feed somebody something you wouldn't eat yourself. So, you know, the freshness of the ingredients is the most important, you know. So the same thing in a jacket. And some people used to be like, stop, you know, changing. And I'm like, yeah, but it could be better. They're like, it's good. And that's also sometimes, that could be sometimes hard because you always want to perfect and perfect and perfect, you know. And my thing was every time I'm like, okay, the zippers were scratching my fingers because we used to use very heavy gauge zippers at the beginning.

22:00Military, high-duty zippers because I really wanted to get that kind of like, you know, contrast. and like the silver look, you know, I felt like as a fashion piece, you know, using it in a different way. But at the same time, it was like when it's cold, it was kind of cutting us. So I'm like, okay, we need to figure to put something that it doesn't scratch your finger, especially when your hands are frozen. So we kind of put a lip for it to not touch your hands directly. So yes, I think perfecting and always like making sure you're doing better and better. And at the end, your customer is your biggest advocate, you know?

22:32So, you know, having a happy customer that enjoys it and that comes back to buy again is the most important for me. As soon as we lose a customer, I'm like, I feel sad. I'm like, why did we lose them? I want to know. I know we're gaining a lot of customers, but if we lost customers, I want to know why. What's the reason we lost them? And how can we gain them back? And like, so we do like literally ask them like, what is it that we could do better? So feedback is very important from everybody. Yeah. I mean, and the clientele list is incredible. There's so many celebrities we mentioned at the top of the show, like Madonna and Meghan Markle.

23:10What advice do you have for founders who want to get that kind of visibility and that kind of exposure? Because for Makaj, so much of it was organic, but it's been very impactful for the growth of the company as well. So I'll tell you, like everybody just mentioned was all organic, you know, so I would say our biggest celebrities was always organic. It was like almost as discovering from shows. We saw it on a lot of shows, TV shows, movies, you know, I would discover it at the same time as I would probably watch it or somebody would send me a screenshot. They're watching a TV show and they see my cash and it's, you know, my cash is very recognizable.

23:51I think the authenticity is really what's important because today a lot of brands, they also pay people to wear stuff, but it looks like it's paid for. So I think the part that's authentic, that was also our target customer at the same time. And the authenticity that they chose it themselves, they styled it themselves, they wore it themselves, and we weren't even involved. Today, I would say it's kind of harder just because influencers and celebrities want a lot, a lot of money to wear stuff. A lot. And I don't know, depending on how relevant it is, sometimes it could be a spend that you're probably not going to get a return.