How Many Product Iterations Do You Need to Launch?

0:00What point do I stop tweaking this thing and just get it out there. You need to feel 100 % confident. There's going to be 2.0, 3.0, but you need to feel confident. Hey there, welcome to Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and building a business. I'm your host, Shuang Esther Shan. It might take you years to design and build your first product. Our guest today says it took her over two years to go from idea to manufacturing. Julie Cardi had the idea for a wearable light that makes nighttime breastfeeding easier for nursing moms. It's called Latchlight and is sold direct to consumer as well as at hospital gift shops and Bye Bye Baby.

0:46We invited Julie to talk about product development and how she's thinking about expanding beyond her hero product. Welcome to the show, Julie. Thank you for having me. So happy to have you here. I love the journey of your career where you were in medical sales and through it and through the chapter of motherhood, you also got inspired to create your own product. Talk to us about the idea behind Latchlight. Sure. As you mentioned, my background has been in medical hospital sales for a little over a decade. And for the bulk of my career, I helped hospitals try to improve efficiencies and really make things easier on both the caregiver and the patient to do the right thing.

1:32So I think my professional career has kind of put me in this mindset of like, okay, how can we be more efficient to make things better for better outcomes? And then, you know, you have your children and then you have lots of challenges where you're exhausted. And I think my thinking cap of how do we make this better when I was sleep deprived is where my initial idea came from for Latchlight, starting with the first stress of a new parent of feeding your children the moment they deliver. And so and getting breastfeeding down and the struggles with that. So my professional career paired with my first challenges as a mom is really what led to my ideas.

2:14I think since I've been little, though, I've always been, I don't want to say the word hustler, but go get her, you know, from the start, I've always just been really self sufficient. And honestly, I've always been thinking of like, what is my big idea going to be? And I come from a family of entrepreneurs. And so I've been kind of looking for my big idea since I've been little, and then becoming a mom, it's where it hit me. and talk to us about this idea right it's um something that's quite niche and i think only when you're going through those early days when you're feeding late at night when you realize this issue that you wanted to solve yeah sure well um you know early as night one in the hospital those are the brightest lights and you've just spent hours delivering a baby and now you're having to breastfeed and it's, you know, 1 a.m., 3 a.m., 5 a.m.

3:08And you're turning on these really bright hospital harsh lights to try to see what you're doing. And it's exhausting. And the lighting is just a bit, it was a bit disturbing. And then, you know, get home from the hospital and, you know, as a new mom, for the first literally two months, you will be feeding around the clock every two hours for two months. I mean, it's literally a reason why sleep deprivation is a form of torture in the military.

3:42I hated my lighting setup at home, and I had, like, the best, you know, bedside table lights, but they were either, like, too little of light or too much of light, and I just wanted something, like, directional on my baby's latch. And then my husband, you know, he was working at the time, And so him and I sharing a room with me, night feeding, like it was also really hard on all of us because he had to get up in the morning and go to work. And I noticed that also my baby was having a tough time falling back asleep more easily. And so I kind of took a deep dive with color of lighting and the importance of what specific color of light.

4:21And so I quickly got rid of anything that was like a really harsh, like LED blue light, because that affected melatonin production on me and our baby and anyone in our house, really. And then I also just wanted something that was wearable because as a new mom, like I was feeding in my bed or I was feeding in the rocking chair or in my baby's room or on the couch in the middle of the night. And I just didn't want to have to hold a light and my baby while trying to figure out where I was going to nurse best for me in that particular moment. So I wanted something also that I could just have hands-free.

4:55And so that's kind of where my ideas of latch light came in is I just want something simple that my sleep deprived mind can manage. I hated like tapping lights to turn them off. So I just wanted one on and off switch, one very soft glow directional that would just illuminate what I'm looking at, which is the baby's latch. And then I also wanted something that I didn't need another light to turn on to find it because that would defeat the purpose of it. So that's where we came up with the glow in the dark feature so that when you open your eyes at 3 a.m. or whatever time that is in the middle of the night, you can easily find the latch light on the nightstand.

5:31It sounds so thoughtfully designed and also seeing it clipped to your shirt. It looks so sleek, maybe looking like a cool like microphone almost, maybe because I'm in audio production, but it sounds like you were very thorough and thoughtful of each design decision. Talk to us about that product design process, because a lot of people might have an idea. They might get intimidated when it comes to actually making the product. Yes. Well, that was completely, you know, new uncharted waters for me. I've never designed a product or anything from scratch. And so I obviously had my son three years later, and I had the same challenges.

6:15And I'm like, this is I'm going to try to make that idea that I had. And so honestly, it started off with just like a straight up like sketch, like on not a napkin, but on a piece of paper, I just sketched it. And then I, I took a baby spoon because I had a general idea of what I wanted it to look like. And I, so I started off with taking a baby spoon from my, from one of my kids and that's a silicone one. And I just started shaving it with a razor. So that was my initial prototype, just like in my office, just trying to like sculpt this thing. And then, yeah, trying to find then someone to make me a prototype, right, of my idea.

6:56And so that was a journey in itself because I didn't realize all the differences of, you know, engineers and designers. And I just thought, this seems simple. Someone should be able to just make this for me. And so I started off with a 3D designer who made my sketch into a design within CAD, I believe, because I have no graphic design background. So even using a software to draw up a 3D model was something I had no experience with. But thankfully, we live in modern times. And thankfully, there's so many programs that make it so much simpler. So I found quickly this organization called Upwork, where it's a bunch of freelance people from like, pretty much anything and everything from attorneys to manufacturers, which is where I found my prototype maker.

7:44So I used Upwork, created it. And then the journey of the design and redesign, It took me about, I want to say, nine different versions of redesigns until I felt comfortable with putting a product out there. And at this point, I hadn't fully committed to the idea of entrepreneurship or quitting my med sales career, right? Like, I knew I had this product and this idea. But I didn't make that decision of like, I'm going to go for this until I got that final, like, I guess call it my ninth version-ish of my prototype into the hands of new moms to actually use with their babies. So I got working prototypes made and gave them to new parents and lactation consultants and doulas and new moms and also grandparents and dads, anyone that was going to take care of a baby at night, whether it's breast or bottle feeding or diaper changes.

8:43and once I got my feedback from them, that's when they gave by and large, like very, wow, this was a game changer for them and a super helpful tool. That is when I decided to move forward and then I redesigned it again based off of their feedback. And then that's when I decided, okay, I'm gonna actually pursue this. And I think that process is also, it might get a little addictive because there could be features that you constantly want to perfect. So how do you draw the balance where when it's iterations eight or nine, you can say to yourself, it's not 100 % perfect, but I should consider actually launching, actually going into production at this point?

9:29Yeah, that was probably my earliest challenge starting out in this journey is like, how perfect do I need to make this? and then everyone also always has an opinion on everything. And so it's like, what is a valid opinion versus is that just personal to them? So yeah, you could go crazy. And at one point, I feel like even nine versions in, I felt crazy. I talked to, I call it like a mentor in my industry who has a product. And I asked that same question, like what point do I stop like tweaking this thing and just get it out there, right? Because I need to get it out there. and his advice was you need to feel like like 100 confident like you need to know in your gut and so um you may not have all the fancy bells and whistles you want at the way beginning but there's going to be 2.0 3.0 um that you can do after launch because you're also going to get feedback once you launch it but you need to feel confident you can't just throw it out there either And so I felt after I got the feedback from that, I tested it with 50 moms in use.

10:37And once I got their feedback and I took the top like consistent feedback in terms of things they wish would change, I did make that final revision and I moved forward. And now I've launched and I've been in the market, you know, since June. I've had inventory out there in June and I'm working on my 2.0 version of it. Yes. But I'm so glad I did not spend more time on more revisions in the before launch stage because I think I would have over-engineered the thing. And I understand you also use Shopify in the prototyping process to collect feedback. Yes. Oh, my gosh. Yes. So, obviously, as a startup, I am self-funded.

11:22And so I had to do a lot of things myself. And I found, you know, I researched like what are the best user-friendly websites. So Shopify, of course, comes up for an e-commerce, especially product type of brand. So I did it all myself on Shopify and set it up. It's really easy. And I did. I wanted to make sure because I knew as a new mom, you are not going to sit and write down like, oh, I thought this product was great. No one's going to fill out a long, lengthy evaluation form. Moms are like in survival mode during the newborn days. So I knew part of my challenge of getting like legitimate feedback from moms testing my product would be to make it as simple as possible for them.

12:04So I knew it had to be an electronic like just quick survey where they can just easily type it in. So I use Shopify before I even had selling anything. I set up a homepage. I had a little product informational video set up. I had some pictures of my product. And then I had a questionnaire where a mom would just go to the link on Shopify and fill out. I had about 30 questions that they filled out on Shopify to provide me the feedback. And then how do you take all that feedback and, you know, you're committed to this initial product run? What are some things you should think about when going into production?

12:41Well, you need to make sure you have the right production partner, I guess, first and foremost. So even that was a journey. I've never had anything manufactured before. And so I'm trying to find the right partner for that. And so my business partner and my husband, he actually flew to overseas to meet with the various manufacturers that we had whittled down to make sure that the company and the factory we were going with, we knew who we were getting into bed with, essentially. So I'd say that is important. And then I would just have realistic expectations of timelines too. I wanted to have this thing launched probably seven months prior to it being launched.

13:27That was like a goal. And it took a little bit longer than I had planned, which was a little stressful and distressing. But, you know, you can only speed up the process so much. And if you do, you know, I feel like I could have bypassed going through prototyping with my manufacturer because I felt I had the best design going into it and it was ready to be manufactured. But you learn that once it's on the production line, there might be some small tweaks that need to be made. And so I had to go through some samplings with that. So having just realistic expectations of timelines just because you think your design is ready to go, you know, it does take a little bit longer.

14:04very good points to keep in mind very excited to chat more about production as well as marketing your product i wanted to take a moment to thank our listeners thank you for tuning into our show we have also launched a youtube channel where you can watch some of our favorite in-person interviews check it out and thanks again for supporting shopify masters So Julie, I know that you guys have taken a trip overseas to meet your manufacturing partner. What were some other things you did to make sure that you were partnering with the right person? Yeah, I mean, so when we started out, we so we utilized a company here domestically to help us find like a variety of manufacturers that could possibly make our product.

14:55So we put together a technical RFP to, you know, to find our manufacturer. And we sent it to about 19 factories and manufacturers. And of course it all comes down to, can you a build this thing? And if you can, what is your initial pricing? And so, um, and what other products do you manufacture? So, right. This is a baby product. This is a product that is going to be used with a brand newborn baby. And a feature of the product we didn't necessarily talk about yet is our latch assist tip here. So this is a silicone tip to help adjust a newborn's latch once a baby is deeply latched for those final lip adjustments for breastfeeding, because that is a challenge as a new mom is getting the latch down and she's utilizing her fingers.

15:41So because of the sensitivity of this product and the market that it was going into, we also, you know, we needed to make sure that these factories were regulated and they met the certifications and the requirements and the qualifications to actually manufacture a baby product. So there's a checklist that you need to, you know, figure out what are the regulations that govern your product. And then from there, you start to eliminate or find specific manufacturers. So that is also really important. So we kind of then weeded out half of them, I'd say, based off of just those types of things. And then from there, it was honestly also about communication and the responsiveness, because we don't speak any other language outside of English, minimal Spanish, which is really upsetting since my maiden name is Lopez.

16:31And that's a whole other story, but only speak English. So being able to also effectively communicate with our manufacturer overseas, because there's also a complete, obviously, time delay. So you're going to always add on a day in between communications. So if you're adding on a day, plus you're trying to clarify what they're saying in a day, you know, we wanted to make sure that we had that. And so that also then eliminated a few. If we couldn't like communicate and understand each other in an RFP process, there was no chance that we were going to be able to understand and communicate during challenges where that come up with manufacturing once you are partners.

17:08So that also was a big factor. And then we basically had narrowed it down to two factories. And that is when we made the decision to physically fly there and see the factories ourselves and have that one-on-one face-to-face. So important. And I think what's also important is how your past experience really ties in. because of the medical sales experience. I think you can also see the opportunities of approaching hospitals and new moms and really understand how to initially market the product. Given that you only launched in June, how was it kind of marketing towards either hospitals or new moms?

17:55Yeah, so obviously my background has been in, you know, I guess a business to business relationship. And now I have entered in the waters of, you know, direct to consumer selling. And that is not my expertise in Forte. I would say I use my social media prior to launching Latchlight very minimally, your occasional, you know, child picture. So that was something new. I felt instantly more comfortable going back to my roots of medical sales. And I do see this fitting within the healthcare market. It's where babies are born and that's where you're feeding first. So naturally I went there first and same with my husband being in that device.

18:36So that's why we also understood what we needed to do from a regulation standpoint in order to get this sold into a hospital. And so that was an easy button for us to start there first. Not an easy button to sell widespread to hospitals because you need boots on the ground, but we have utilized our relationships and our contacts to get it on major contracts for hospitals the way that they buy so that we have the license to go and sell in hospitals. So we've gotten the license for the hospitals. And then now it's how do we sell to moms? And so that has been, you know, that's been the new thing for us in navigating that.

19:14And we live in a time of mommy influencers and celebrity influencers and all these influencers. And so I I thought, okay, we just need to get it to the influencer moms to get it out there because that seems like a no-brainer windfall. And that was a little bit of an interesting learning experience, not, you know, being new to direct-to-consumers. And I thought if I got this in the hands of, like, a mom influencer of 7 million followers, like, it's going to be an overnight, you know, sensation. Because why wouldn't it be? Just makes sense. And it doesn't actually work that way. I've learned early on, you could go broke paying everyone that wants to promote your product as an influencer.

19:52And so you definitely shouldn't shy away from, I've learned, you know, if you've got influencers or moms that are having babies that want to do it. But I wouldn't pay the$5 ,000 that everyone wants to charge you to make a video for you in terms of direct-to-consumer selling. And I've learned that, you know, I essentially need to be the face and the salesperson. And so I've had to break out of my comfort zone and share videos about me and my life and my kids and, you know, getting the consumer to know me as a mom and a founder and my struggles as a mom versus, you know, maybe paying an influencer to post a video for 30 seconds on her Facebook story about my product.

20:40I certainly love when I get them, but there's a balance of paying for that. And I imagine the timing is hard, right? You're trying to maybe reach those influencers or reach your customers before they even have their baby so that they can see the potential of the use case scenario, which I guess makes sense. You also invested in trade shows. How has that impacted the brand? Yeah, so there's a couple of parade shows, right? So there's ones that are direct to consumer. So I recently just did one called the Prego Expo, which was awesome. It's basically for anyone that's expecting or just had a baby that comes through and they have lots of fun events and games.

21:25And then, of course, just like a bunch of vendors where they go around. That was my first direct-to-consumer show, which was fun. And there actually was tons of mommy influencers there. So that was awesome. They were able—a lot of them just—we gifted latchlights, too. And they've been sharing it organically. I just woke up to a post today from a mom who, like, legitimately used it last night. So that—so these trade shows are awesome because you're directly interfacing with your consumer and your market and, you know, telling your story. Just like I am here. I feel like the moms were like, that's awesome.

21:59I want to support you and I want to buy one. And so these shows are really important for us. And then there's a few, but the main two trade shows, but they're not direct to consumer. They're closed to the industry. So your buyers, your stores, your targets, your Walmarts, your baby store buyers. That one is called ABC Kids and that's in Vegas. And that is where I officially launched in May before I had inventory. so I went to that show and was like sitting on a floor with major major brands like baby brands like baby bior and like you know all the brands that you love um and then you're like wow I cannot believe I'm here as a little vendor it was a great show though because I met I was the insider for over a decade in an industry where you know the players you understand the market you understand the politics right like who used to work for what brand what competitor you understood it and then I went to this show as a complete outsider, learning and understanding this new baby industry.

22:57And I, I honestly, I joke, but like, I feel like I now understand the song Baby Shark because it's, Baby Shark is, it's not for the, it's not what it is. It's actually like, it's a sharky water in the baby industry. And so, you know, needing to make sure that you're protecting your product and not getting, you know, sharks coming in and trying to recreate it. And so, but those shows are all very necessary and very fun, you know. And so now I'm literally out there. There's no hiding latch light anymore. I met with all the major retailers there. And so they know my product exists. And now it's just a matter of wearing them down to get it in their shelves.

23:38It's amazing to hear because I think it's very worthwhile to invest in yourself and take those leaps and go to those shows. But to your point, it is also scary because I imagine being such an innovative product and being a new startup company, there's definitely bigger players or even new players that maybe are eyeing your product and may potentially be copying. How are you dealing with that front? Yeah, that keeps me up at night. As an entrepreneur, I think that's my number one thing that keeps me up at night. I am patent pending. And so what, you know, pending is the hard part because I'm in the process.

24:18But if I waited till I was officially granted the full patent, then I mean, I'm probably looking at, I don't know how long, right? And so there's a timing, right? Of like, you ask, like, do you wait to, for your ninth design version to launch? Or do you wait till you're patented to launch? It's like, these are the decisions, right? And so we decided to launch because we did get our initial review back from the patent office that there was very little denials on my patent. Our attorney was like, it's really strongly looking like you're going to get all the things that you patented. And so therefore, we decided to launch.

24:54My first show, I had many larger brands come up and wanted to take pictures, wanted to have samples, were asking me stories. And I have a few friends now that I've been in this journey for a few years in design phase that warns me about certain brands and companies that, you know, and things that have happened to them with getting knocked off. And so that is a fear of mine is getting someone to take my product and knocking it off and already having the large distribution channel that I'm trying to build, get it out there before I'm there. And so that is something that I worry about. But I just keep pushing through.

25:30I mean, I already had my first form of knockoff on Amazon. I had a company that literally took all of my images, all of my marketing material, everything, and recreated it with AI and put their light that has not even any of the same features but tried to pass it as the same feature. And use my literally latch light words as their targeted sponsored search words. So they're not technically infringing on my trademark because they're not using Latchlight, but they're using Latchlight as their sponsored ad word. So it shows up right above mine with like stolen, made up images. So, you know, it's OK because it's a form of flattery.

26:12I'm clearly on the right track if people are trying to knock me off. And my product, I think, is super unique. And I also just with our patent attorney, we just filed for the fast track option in terms of it costs a little bit more money. But as a brand new smaller entity, the patent office has some unique things for people like me, probably because of this situation. Exactly. And so, yeah, so we're forging ahead. But, yeah, I mean, it's a possibility, but I haven't let it stop me because I believe in my product. I believe in me and I believe that just by me even sharing this will shame this other bigger company if they decide to knock me off because I'll be like, listen, I was here.

26:53I showed it first. And so, you know, you just have to put your story out there. And I think consumers, I think they care about stuff like that now. I think they want to support small businesses. I think there's been a big shift of people wanting to support moms.

27:12and I feel like if I do get knocked off I feel like I can tell that to the consumer you know and then I think the consumer will care and so I just think being vulnerable and sharing it it is what it is it's a possibility but it is what it is and there is that tension right like you can wait for your patent, but there might be another fast mover ahead of the curve and they might launch in their own different way. So you kind of have to balance the two. And I think it's the same with, you know, new product ideas and expanding as well. Cause I, I feel like you probably have a lot more ideas, but it's also like, how do you make sure you're being thoughtful in the process that you expand your business and make sure that you're not overextended in your expansion.

28:03Yeah, that's my second thing that keeps me up at night is, of course, it took me a while to launch this. And I have other product ideas that all fall in my, my parent company name is Light Ahead. And so it's really to help, you know, it's a perseverance through parenthood company, helping parents navigate the nights. So I have other product ideas. And so it's a matter of, okay, at what point do I start working and sourcing and, you know, working on those design and manufacturing processes? Or do I wait till this is a little bit bigger and, you know, up and running a little bit longer and a marketplace success for a little bit before I launch that?