How Marlyn Schiff Built a 2,000-Store Jewelry Brand By Selling Passion, Not Pressure

0:00Having the ability to design and sell was key for me because I was able to talk about what I loved. And I think when you're passionate about something, people can buy into it no matter what you do.

0:12Marlyn Schiff:Welcome to Shopify Masters, your campaign for starting and building a business. I'm your host, Adam Levinter. In an industry crowded with trends and fast fashion, building a jewelry brand with real staying power takes more than good design. It takes decades of reinvention. Marlyn Schiff did exactly that. I have my first retail store, and that to me has been a true game changer. Starting at her kitchen table in Manhattan at only 24 years old, she turned a lunchtime jewelry making hobby into a seven-figure business now carried in 2 ,000 stores nationwide. We managed to stay relevant by scaling like crazy.

0:49Marlyn Schiff:Today, Marlon joins me to talk about growing through wholesale partnerships, building the right team around you, and using business as a force for good. Marlon, welcome to the show. Thank you, Adam. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah, for sure. So you've been at this quite a while. You started at your kitchen table, what, over 30 years ago? It's very hard to admit. I'm going to say admit, but yes, I did. It was just truly by chance that it happened. I was working in the fashion industry at the time. I was already working for different designers. And, you know, I would go out on a pretty day, go buy beads, start making them.

1:28and it was just very organic, really. I would wear my things in the showroom. Many stores started, you know, complimenting them. People that worked for the different designers that I had been with asked if they could also have things made. And it just sort of happened. I mean, one store said to me, have you ever thought about actually wholesaling? And I was like, absolutely not. And she said, well, I'd like you to make those things for me.

1:50Marlyn Schiff:Wow. So are you doing this as a hobby, as a side hustle because you're interested in this or did you have any intention to start a business at the time? I definitely had no intention of starting it at the time. I think in a lot of ways, it's good to be young and naive. At that point, I was in Manhattan and I started to get some press. Like I had friends in New York that were working in TV and they were getting people that were in their networks wearing it. It just sort of was luck. And listen, I think it's also a little drive. You know, I was like into it and I loved what I was doing. But I just decided I was so young.

2:25I had nothing to lose. And at 24, went out on my own.

2:29Marlyn Schiff:And in your first year, you had some pretty big successes, right? You were carried in some retailers very early. Some of your stuff was even worn by Cindy Crawford, who a lot of listeners will know, but some will not know. But what does that partnership bring to the table? Cindy Crawford was on MTV and had her own show called House of Style. And I had a friend who was one of the producers there. And so she said, like, just give me some pieces and let's see what happens. And I got very lucky because she started wearing my things constantly on air. And so that was really fun. When I was in New York, things, actually, was I just moving back to Philly then?

3:09Maybe. When I also knew somebody who was one of the producers at Sex and the City. And she said, just send me a bunch of pieces. I'll throw it in the closet and see if they pick it. And they all started wearing it on Sex and the City. And I got very lucky at that time that just, you know, in life, it's all about sort of networking. And if you know people that are working in different industries or things that can help you, it's about constantly sort of talking about what you do. And I feel like I've tried to tell my children that now. I think it's a lesson to be learned because the more you sort of talk about what you love doing, people are like, well, I know somebody there.

3:42Let me see what I can do. And I think it just was something that I did start by accident, but ended up through all the years, very organically growing slowly, each little step at a time. And now here I am.

3:59Marlyn Schiff:That's interesting that you mentioned that. So why do you think that is that a lot of founders have trouble selling themselves or talking about what they do? Like, where does that come from? Are we maybe just born with it? I don't know. Like, I think I am sort of a natural born salesperson. And I think a lot of designers, you have to be both. You can design, but if you also can't really sell, unless you can find people that can just do all of that for you and you can be behind the scenes, great. But I think having the ability to design and sell was key for me because I was able to talk about what I loved.

4:34And I think when you're passionate about something, people can buy into it no matter what you do. So I wasn't ever like a salesy person. I don't think I'm ever aggressive. Like even now, so many years later, people are in the New York shows and we're dealing with big stores. I never push people. That's not my style. I think it's just about showing them what you do and what you love and then allowing them to follow suit with what suits them. And that to me is a better approach for me, at least, because it also allows them to have more success because they're also buying into what they love, not what you're telling them.

5:09but buying into your passion about what you're doing and the reason why you designed a collection that season or, you know, the meaning behind it.

5:16Marlyn Schiff:So was Neiman Marcus the first retailer that you partner with? Wasn't the first retailer because I was at that point selling to a lot of smaller stores, but it happened because they walked into my New York City booth and fell in love what they saw. And I was at that point, honestly, catalog business with them was massive. and they ended up getting a few styles that really hit and they had to reorder them like 10 12 times over and it was just this constant flow of business it was really great and then it ended up being that they i have a lower price point we pride ourselves on being like the 150 and under sort of price point which is what we're doing very well with right now at nordstrom but i got lucky because at that point now nordstrom's now taking that away they did have a whole section that was my price point.

6:04And I ended up getting into the stores because of that.

6:07Marlyn Schiff:So talk to me about how you scale this. So it's one thing to sort of design and curate for small boutiques. It's another thing to design so that sufficient for say a Neiman Marcus big purchase order distribution into multiple door fronts. Like how does that happen for you? I slowly started hiring people. You know, as I grew, I realized I needed to have people that helped me. We moved at that point from New York City, where I was living in this little apartment and shipping boxes myself at night. It was crazy to coming down to Philadelphia. My husband at that point had gotten into business school here and we came down and relocated and I was able to get a bigger apartment and have a whole room dedicated to doing this.

6:50Once that happened and we went through those years, I had one person always with me. I got an office space and then I got a bigger office space. And now we just purchased this, not big, but mighty three-story building that is where we are now housed. So each step of the way, I think as it was needed, I moved into a spot and was able to bring in the right amount of people. And right now we're trying to really grow like D to C business. And we've gotten more people involved with that. And I think as we keep moving in different directions. We're kind of good at trying to bring in people that can fit that equation for us or help us grow or help us get to New York shows and sell.

7:31And we just met, you know, with Bloomingdale's last week and that went great. That was really good. And we might start doing business with them, whether it's private label and I start designing for Aqua or whatever else it might be. We're in discussions, but we've had some great people. I'm very fortunate that some people have stayed with me. I've got some people in the building that have been with me for 17 years.

7:54Marlyn Schiff:Wow. So did they start on the product side? Were they selling? One woman is here that's been selling and helping me. She's my right-hand person. She's my design assistant. She's been with me for 10 and a half years, which is unbelievable. Name Nicole. And Patty and Rochelle, who have been here for like 17, 18 years, have been in the fulfillment. So they've always been here running the fulfillment room. And we do all the shipping out of here also, which is not necessarily normal. Right. That's not necessarily the norm, but obviously there's a reason that you do it. It has its advantages with respect to control and oversight, quality, things like that.

8:35Marlyn Schiff:Why have you not outsourced to date? You know, it's funny. I don't know. I thought I've thought about it. A lot of people I know, obviously that do that. I have a mixed bag of designers that are jewelry designers that do a little of both. There's a lot of either sometimes shortage or packages not being fulfilled properly, damages that aren't being packed properly. And even when we do an order like for Stitch Fix or yesterday, we just sent out 10 ,000 units to this company called Kabi, which is a newer account for us. It was a pallet, but it was packed here properly. It was all labeled here. It came my team here.

9:14We ended up having like 95 % success rate in all of our shipping. So, so far it's okay. I don't know if it'll ever change at this point. We're so far along, but even out of the small space, we're shipping everyday boxes, of course, and web orders and everything else. But we've been able to ship some very large quantities out of here as well. Like when I'm going to be on HSN, that comes here and gets shipped there. And that's massive amounts of inventory. But we end up getting 100 % and we don't get any chargebacks. Shipping properly is such a big deal. And a lot of those kind of companies give you a lot of chargebacks if things are not done well.

9:52So I don't know. So far, we seem to be down this road and I don't seem to be going back. So I don't

9:59Marlyn Schiff:Yeah, just for listeners that don't understand the difference between chargebacks and refunds. So refunds, it's sort of an everyday cost of doing business. You're unhappy with a product, you return it to the point of sale, you get a refund. A chargeback is an unhappy customer that looks at their credit card statement and charges back through the card issuing bank. And that's actually a black eye on the merchant record. And that can affect your processing. So that's fantastic that you've had no chargebacks to date. Yeah. And also in our industry, you know, chargebacks often can be given to someone like a manufacturer if the company, the receiving company will say, XXX, like these things were not done properly.

10:38So it's up to us then. And we're deciding we're going to charge you back. But because I think we're able to really check every little check and balance here, we have proof. We take pictures. There's proof that like, this is how we've done it. So you're wrong. You know, I think there's something to be said for that. For sure.

10:56Marlyn Schiff:Okay, so you mentioned these various retail partnerships, wholesaling to different outfits, you venture into D2C at some point, into online commerce at some point. Let's talk about that. So what was the evolution into direct to consumer? And how has e commerce helped the business grow over time? I think we all know how much it's changed since COVID. I mean, I think that that has really scaled that business. It's funny, that's the one area that I didn't focus enough on that during the beginning of COVID. And for the past few years, we have finally, we're bringing in other companies, we just redid a website, we are hiring people that are very good at scaling that we're paying a little bit extra, we're putting more money into ads, we're learning how to do it better.

11:39And we are seeing results. So, you know, I think that that's obviously very relevant right now and you have to be really on top of it. And we are trying more and more right now to really grow that part of the business through influencers and whatever else we're doing. Yeah.

11:56Marlyn Schiff:I mean, speaking of influencers, the partnership with Cindy Crawford could have been the very first celebrity collab ever done. Right. You could have been a trailblazer for all things influencer. Who knows? That's right. That's really funny. So true. So with respect to online commerce, has it been successful? And how do you measure the sort of quality of that channel versus wholesale versus retail versus boutique versus other acquisition channels? We have very specific people here that have their lane. And that's how I have to do it as a founder. You know, I wasn't as good at that until about 10 years ago.

12:33And now I feel like everybody is hired for a certain position. And listen, we are a small company. In small companies, you do a little of everything. Of course, if people need help doing different things, other people have to jump in and help. But it's very good that we have a head of social media who also happens to be really an expert. She's done a ton of work on ads and ad spend. And so she's running that and I'm seeing results. And I think it's really good that I brought a consultant into the business a year and a half ago who's also really helping me stay focused on my growth and what I want and helping me to achieve those.

13:07But now I'm liking having somebody that isn't a part of my company that can really look from outward in. And I think that's been really interesting for me for the first time in all these years to have somebody who's had experience in the industry, but can help me grow in ways that I don't think I could have. And that's been another change for me.

13:28Marlyn Schiff:Over the past 30 plus years, you've seen so much from a macro perspective. I mean, you sort of live through the online internet boom of the late 90s, early 2000s, the financial crisis of 08, 09, the e-commerce sort of boom and bust that happened during COVID and then following COVID. What did these various macro level shifts, what sort of impact did they have on the business and what sorts of shifts did you have to make strategically because of them? So it's interesting. some of our businesses like Stitch Fix or FabFitFun or these people that are so hugely driven by online sales. And we brought in extra people literally to help assist on keeping up.

14:13During COVID, that is what kept me afloat. Oh, and I started designing masks. That was another crazy thing. We sold masks. I was designing them in India. They were beautiful fabrics we were like doing. And then we also did philanthropic work with it with like extra X amount of masks sold. We donated X amount of dollars and then medical grade masks to hospitals all over Pennsylvania. We've always been a bit philanthropic, but being in your own business, I feel like you can't have your back up against a wall because so much is thrown at us. Like I feel like on a daily basis. And the best thing I can say is the ability to really be able to pivot quickly and then decide on how, okay, you know, this is happening right now.

14:59Let me just switch gears quickly and figure out how I can solve this problem. Or maybe we can just try this. But there's a lot of things that also don't work, right? So don't get caught up in the things that don't work. Maybe this will work next this time. And the ability to pivot like COVID threw us all for a total loop. We didn't know what was happening. We couldn't leave our houses. I remember going to New York City for my kids. It felt like the apocalypse. There was not one person or car on the street. And we managed to stay relevant by scaling like crazy all of our businesses that really relied on the D2C and online business.

15:34And we were lucky. And then the masks, I stayed relevant to every store in America because they could not get enough masks. We were shipping from this facility. I went down to five people, furloughed the rest, and we were shipping masks all over the country. But when COVID was over, those stores remembered us. It kept us relevant to our stores because we were still there, you know, and that was, that was just really, honestly, that was so lucky. So lucky.

16:02Marlyn Schiff:Talk to me about team building and hiring. So over the course of many years, you hired early and you had to sort of move on the fly and bring in resources. Did you get the order of things right? Like for founders that are listening and thinking about what's the most important first hire that I have to make? Is it somebody that's on the product side? Is it on the sales side? And then how would you think about it based on your experience? That's a very good question, I think. So because I was so tiny and so small, I think the first thing I really worked on was trying to get into New York trade shows where I could really be seen by the whole country.

16:38That is what really changed my brand. So I think sales was really where I definitely focused first. Those were people that could come with me, be next to me, sell. And at that point, to be honest, we didn't have a fulfillment room. We would come back and we were shipping all these orders. When we were just getting started, we were doing everything. So it started with sales and then it was shipping, right? So I had to have sales in order to ship. So for a while, we wore all hats. And then as I continued to grow, I was able to bring on people that can be much more specific. But for me, I think having the sales first is what worked for me personally.

17:17You know, and that was a long time ago. I think brands that start now, I get the feeling that maybe they're working more on just D2C or some people are just D2C. Some people never go down the road that I've gone and now they're like, oh, we're just gonna start a brand and we're gonna do just direct to consumer. And there's a lot of people that start in that direction right now. And that's obviously very new. You know, that didn't exist before.

17:39Marlyn Schiff:What do you make of that? I mean, I would say still though, there's this evolution or shift toward brand authenticity and trust and understanding like the mission behind the company and who is the face of that brand. And so for those brands that are coming online for the first time or going DTC first, I would say that consumers sort of have a much higher bar now and want to know that there is such a story or a mission or an individual that they can relate to, right? They're not just buying something online anymore. I think that this is just the era that we're in. So they want to relate to the founder, you're saying.

18:15And I think there's something to be said about that. And it's interesting. We're having this discussion now that I should be maybe like on my Instagram more talking to people. And when I do that, we do get a lot of sales resulting in that because I do talk about like a different collection or what it meant or why I did it. Or I do a lot of vintage shopping. And I do a lot of collections every season based on some really cool vintage pieces that I found. And I like take it, I take components of it. I redesign it. We did this whole collection this season with all the sardines that everybody sees, but ours were so different and unique because I found this vintage piece in Paris that was all sardines.

18:53And I took the piece and I kind of took it apart. And then we added, like, we put it on long beads, we did it on turquoise and I sort of just created a whole story around it. And when I told that story, we sold so much of that. It does connect them to the brand. I think you're right. I think people are moving more and more in the direction of wanting to know more about founders. And I'm hearing that more and more now from like my PR firm, they're finding that people want to hear more of my message. Why we've done something? Why did we design it? Why did you pick those stones? You know, what are the colors for next season?

19:24We designed that way, right? We know colors, chocolate brown is going to be hot for fall. Well, we knew that. So we did a whole smoky topaz collection and chocolate brown enamels. And And it is fun, I think, to hear. I think it makes sense. And I think that people want to know, you know, when they're looking at a collection online, oh, there, I remember her talking about Chocolate Brown. Oh, there it is. I like to know that too, when I have a connection to a brand. I like knowing the founder and what they're saying personally.

19:52Marlyn Schiff:I mean, you think about it though, in the age of AI, this sort of makes sense because AI can compete on almost every level with respect to product or content or technology, et cetera. the one thing that it can't really replicate is someone's personal story or the individual brand trust that can be created between said individual and then the consumer base. So I think that, you know, we're in this sort of era of AI where sort of the brand authenticity or brand equity rises to the forefront of what's really, really important because, you know, anybody can spin up a product company or a competitor and then price lower or whatever using these tools, but they're not going to be able to create the brand equity that's been established over 35 years, say, of Marlon Schiff or understand what Marlon's background or story was and the evolution of the brand.