How Momofuku Bottled Its Restaurant Experience

0:00We wanted to actually create products that we would use within our own restaurants. And I think that's maybe a different look than a lot of other companies have gone with.

0:12Hey, you're tuning in to Shopify On Location, a special series featuring businesses of New York. I'm your host, Shuang Esershan. Momofuku is changing the food scene in New York and beyond. When they originally launched in 2004, it was all about redefining what fine dining meant and changing the narrative around ramen. Now the company is making it easier for fans everywhere to get a taste of Momofuku by entering the retail and direct-to-consumer space. Today, we have Momofuku's CEO, Marguerite Maricel, joining us to share all the lessons she's learned from building an ecosystem around Momofuku.

0:51Thank you so much for joining us, Marguerite. Happy to be here. I think we got to start off on the fact that you are a lifelong New Yorker. Most of your career revolves around food. So set the scene for us for New York back in the early 2000s and how Momofuku really came on the scene and really changed things. Sure. So I definitely started as a fan first. I grew up in New York City. I went to the original Noodle Bar, which opened in 2004. And really, you saw Momofuku change the perception of what, quote unquote, fine dining could be.

1:33Food was really dominated by these white tablecloth fancier restaurants, you know, predominantly on the upper east side, upper west side, downtown. And what Dave really tried to do when he opened Noodle Bar was how can you apply that same level of intention and technique and quality sourcing of ingredients, but apply it to things like a bowl of noodles or a pork bun. And no one had really seen that kind of applied to what people perceived as being more humble offerings.

2:06And I think it really caught on in kind of a chef community and then more broadly. And I think you could see how that's really changed dining in New York and the world more broadly. So for myself, growing up on the Upper West Side and, you know, venturing down to the East Village to try noodle bar. And then I went to Coe for my 18th birthday. So really just, as I said, a fan. And then after I graduated from college and I was looking for what I wanted to do, Momofuku had an internship. And so I think it will be 12 years as of this week that I've worked at Momofuku since starting there in 2011. Amazing.

2:45New York is kind of the breeding ground for restaurants. The food scene is something that chefs from all over the world fly in to be inspired by, to study. What is it about the local food scene that really breeds successful stories like Momofuku? Yeah, I think some of it is really the density, right? There's the number of offerings, the breadth of offerings. At the time, there were these major cities, LA, Chicago, where the food critics were really dictating where people were going, what the best restaurants were. And so I think you had this kind of broader, higher-end culinary community that then almost a diaspora started, where you had those chefs that worked at these three Michelin star restaurants, four stars from the Times that were going off and starting their own ventures, usually further downtown.

3:36And then that really led, I think, to this next wave of restaurants that then began to kind of trickle throughout the country. And so something that Dave and I talk a lot about is, at this point, there's a restaurant that resembles Momofuku in pretty much every city across the country. You can get a pork bun, you can get a good bowl of ramen in a lot more places than you were in 2004. So, you know, moving over to home cooking products is super exciting for us because that's the area where we actually think there's a really big gap where, you know, maybe you've had a great bowl of ramen, but how can you replicate those flavors at home?

4:14And there just hasn't been as much, I think, attention paid to that section of the supermarket or what's available direct to consumer. So that's really in 2019 where we started to put our time and effort. Yeah, and I think Momofuku redefined ramen in two parts. Definitely the 2019 direct-to-consumer chapter, but in the original chapter where it's early 2000s, I think the North American perception of ramen should be really cheap. It's something maybe you make in your dorm. But tell us how Momofuku really changed that perception around ramen. it's such a good point and truly you know something i get really excited about is is this full circle right it's like you had this perception of of ramen exactly as you said something that comes you know in a dry flavor packet that isn't more than two dollars and i think dave and what fuku was able to do is really change the perception you know that's more analogous to the perception of ramen specifically in japan but more broadly as you know something that a you You have chefs that make one type of ramen and they've been doing it for 40 years, right?

5:21Like that's the level of care, dedication, sourcing, everything around it. And I think Dave, having lived in Japan for a period of time, wanted to bring that, you know, whether it's the broth, cooking for 24 plus hours, the ingredients that were going into it. And that then I think almost allowed, as you said, in 2019 for us to start thinking about, well, let's go back almost to the original perception of what people had about ramen and being this packaged food. And how can we make that better now that there is this kind of broader understanding of what ramen can be? And I think what's really cool about our noodles is both you can eat them just with the packet that comes with it.

6:00But we see incredible things that people are making, you know, make their own mushroom broth, have char siu, jam the egg, like just watching people kind of take this base and create these like super elevated high end meals is really incredible. And we have a Facebook group for the products. It's about 15 ,000 people right now. And every day people are posting recipes. They're commenting on each other's photos. They're talking about what new products they want to see and building that kind of very intentional community. around the products and seeing what people have been able to do is pretty incredible.

6:41So it's really common now for restaurants to enter into direct consumer, but Momofuku was ahead of the curve. So tell us how you and Dave came to that decision back in 2019. What I would say about the pandemic is I really think it expedited existing trends in restaurants. So even prior to labor was a huge issue in terms of being able to staff restaurants, you know, rent, utilities, everything continued to go up. And we've been really vocal, I think, as a restaurant group, but also customers' lack of willingness to pay more for food, even as all of those things continue to rise, food costs, everything.

7:23And so I think restaurants are obviously a phenomenal experience and, you know, not something that you can replicate at your home kitchen necessarily, but we really wanted to be able to diversify the business. And you look at the pandemic being a great example, right? You would have brick and mortar stores closed, but other businesses were able to continue to sell things online. Right. And I think for restaurants, you know, especially maybe more fine dining restaurants, there just wasn't that out of store experience or a way of generating revenue. So I think for us, it was really about diversification and kind of protecting what we do.

7:59And I would also say just the business factors around restaurants and just seeing how they're becoming increasingly difficult. How can we do a different model that could help us leverage our brand, our expertise, our chefs, everything we've learned over the past 15 years into a different mode of execution. Yeah. There's also a great deal of learning when you're entering a new channel. I believe when Momofuku Goods first launched the Hero product or the initial product offering was soy sauce. Were there initial learnings that really taught the team how to adjust the product offerings and cater more so to the individual consumer?

8:42So for just some background, we started this company, as I mentioned, in 2019. But really, obviously, the pandemic expedited that process. So we started out with pretty much all employees that worked for the restaurant group. And it was a project for us to execute while the restaurants were closed. So we were all kind of putting our CPG hats on and trying to figure out what products made the most sense, building out the website, everything. And so I think the way we used to look at it, which is kind of funny now is to say soy sauce, for example, I think is something like a$2 billion industry in the US.

9:16And I think there's other stats that suggest that, you know, behind ketchup, mustard and mayo, it is one of the more common condiments that someone would have in the US, you know, in their home. But so all of that, we were like, we have to make soy sauce. And then I think as we started to sell soy sauce, but also things like chili crunch, things like the noodles, we started to realize that velocity was actually super important. You know, maybe this is obvious to people that did this on a daily basis, but for us just learning, it's really about how often does someone buy soy sauce, right? Which is, I think for most Americans, you know, especially those shopping in conventional grocery stores, maybe once a year, maybe every, you know, two years.

9:56And so we really started to see products like Chili Crunch, where people were putting it on eggs and just everything that they were consuming on a daily basis, or things like the noodles where, you know, each pack is a meal moving a lot quicker. And I think we started to really think about our product mix and A, what was resonating with the consumer and then B, what was working from a business standpoint. We got advice from someone very early on that said, you want someone to be able to take a bite of something and have it taste like momofuku. And so while, you know, we love our soy sauce and it's a key component to a lot of dishes we make, if you take a bite of chili crunch, if you have a bite of our noodles, you get a really full kind of vision of what we do and the flavors of our restaurants.

10:40And so I think we're really leaning into that and continuing to prioritize that as we come up with new products.

10:49Yeah, it's really cool to hear that data points are helping the team make decisions, but I'm sure there were so many chaotic prepping time to actually make sure the online experience is a good one for people shopping online. For founders who are thinking about launching and prepping their online store, what are some tips that they should keep in mind when they're doing so? Yeah, I think we both learned a lot, I would say, but we also, you know, as the business grew, who we were reaching also continued to evolve. So I think to start, we provided probably, very little kind of broader company information, right?

11:32Because people who were coming to us, maybe they had known about the restaurants, they had seen something with Dave. And so we didn't really have to tell that kind of broader narrative of what is Momofuku, what are these products, and everything behind them. As we continue to grow our audience and move to a broader community that maybe have never tried any of our restaurants or know who Dave is, it became increasingly important to be able to provide that framework and that context that then kind of preps them of how to use these products and the ecosystem of all the things that we have. So I would say as we've grown, we've really kind of spent a lot of time tailoring what is that first interaction that a customer has when they come to our website, clicking through on a digital ad or coming through a link from a press hit, something like that, really making sure that we're not just selling them on the products, but taking a step back and I think really giving some more context as well as to who we are.

12:28And I think that's what then ultimately builds the loyalty or the kind of the broader community and brand that then I think has allowed us to kind of retain customers and continue to build on that relationship. That's such an important point for any founder in any stage because distilling your story in a short, easy to understand page when someone lands on site is so important. I hope you're enjoying our conversation. And by the way, if you haven't already, please subscribe to Shopify masters, wherever you get your podcasts and let us know what you think by leaving a review. Thank you so much.

13:07The other aspect I want to talk about, about the launch is also marketing to people who might've not been in the Momofuku universe that might be hearing about the brand for the first time. How did you name different flavors and communicate about different products in marketing to make it make sense for the larger demographic? Yes, I think naming is something that's super important for us. And we think about a ton, a ton, a ton. We're by nature, I think, introducing flavors to a lot of Americans that are not maybe familiar with Chili Crisp or with prepackaged noodles like ours. And so really for us, the key is how do you get someone through the door, right?

13:50And get through the door as it relates to a restaurant, but through the door, meaning placing that first order on D to C. And so really it's convincing someone that they can use these flavors, that they're something that they'll enjoy. And so I think we very intentionally, when we're talking about naming, want to make sure that we're representing the flavors, but also using verbiage that I think is universally appealing. So, you know, one great example of that, we recently in August launched a sweet and spicy noodle that leverages gochugong, which is something that's a staple in our restaurants, a chili paste.

14:24You know, I think we went with sweet and spicy as opposed to potentially calling out the paste itself just because we want someone to maybe doesn't know what that is, try these noodles. And then if from there they get interested in, oh, what is in this? Where does this come from? You know, that's kind of like the next step of discovery. But making sure that we're meeting people where they are, I think, in terms of food knowledge in the American kind of conventional grocery store, a lot of this is new. And I think it's, A, amazing to see, I think, just the interest that people have had specifically, I think, going through the pandemic and becoming, whether it's a more confident home cook or maybe just looking for something a little outside of their comfort zone and being willing to experiment.

15:06We are, I think, for a lot of people, kind of that like first step in this direction. And so finding that balance between, you know, authenticity and these flavors and getting someone, you know, to pick up the item, to put it into their cart and obviously hopefully come back to repurchase.

15:32building that bridge for sure for like all of momofuku's team there has been a lot to change people's thoughts around different topics and myths we talked about making ramen more so entering the fine dining scene but now you're also changing the conception of consumer packaged goods and having the appreciation for them and making them realize that, hey, they could be as good as a restaurant dish. So how has that effort been like? Yeah, we talk a lot about kind of food trends, right, more broadly. And I think it's really interesting to think about how, you know, until the past 30 years, there was like olive oil.

16:16And now you look at a supermarket and, you know, there's some understanding of, oh, this is, you know, something for me to use in a salad dressing or it's for finishing. Oh, this is something that I would maybe cook with. There's extra virgin, you know, there's first press, there's just a lot more kind of nuance to it. And so I think what we're trying to do in a way is that same level of awareness for things like soy sauce, for things like chili crisp. I think there's an idea that restaurant CPG companies have been almost like diffusion lines where you have, you know, a three Michelin star chef, but they have a can of soup with their face on it.

16:54And that, you know, you're getting the same quality product as, you know, you do in the restaurant. I think we're taking a very unique approach where we're actually using these products as ingredients in our restaurants. So it's the same seasoned salt. It's the same soy sauce. It's the same chili crunch that you can get on a smoked prime rib at Major Domo in LA. You can get chili Crunch to go with your ramen at Noodle Bar in New York. So I think we really wanted to create products that both were exciting for us, you know, myself, Dave, our team to use at home, but also were of the quality that we would use in our own spaces.

17:32And the very first products we made said restaurant grade, which was kind of a little cheeky joke, but I think, you know, we meant it, right? We wanted to actually create products that we would use within our own restaurants. And I think that's maybe a different look than a lot of other companies have gone with. But I think it allows us to really stand behind the products with that integrity. You know, and Dave is one of the biggest consumers of our savory season salt. I'm constantly going through chili crunch. And so, you know, that enthusiasm and that kind of real connection to the products, I think that really resonates out to our consumers in a way that's maybe different from some other other brands.

18:11I love the philosophy of having the ingredients that you actually use in the restaurants as these products. And I think it goes down even to the packaging where on the soy sauce, you see that tape label, how you would typically see kitchens in restaurants work. So I really love that. That's exactly right. And I think, you know, the beauty of that packaging with the blue tape is that, you know, if you get it, you get it. And if you don't, it's still, I think a distinctive, maybe higher end looking bottle than what's out there, but exactly really trying to tie the products into the culture of our kitchens.

18:45And I think that that goes a long way, once again, with kind of the authenticity, the kind of credibility of Momofuku as a brand, as kind of the name to trust in these products. And I'm sure a big part of changing that is also all of the content that Momofuku creates with podcasts and magazines also featuring all of the nice videos and photos that consumers have been sharing. Talk to us about the ecosystem of sharing recipes and featuring all of the content that fans of Momofuku are sharing as well. I think content has always been a huge part of Momofuku on all aspects of the business. When I started in 2011, I launched the company's Instagram, Tumblr, and basically we wanted to come up with ways for Umofuku to engage directly with its audience without going through a PR company or, you know, getting something written up in the Times or in a magazine.

19:45We really want to be able to tell our own stories. And so we came up with a bunch of ways to do that back in 2011, or whether it's Dave doing shows like Mind of a Chef on PBS, where he got to kind of talk about things that he found interesting in the industry that maybe wouldn't get covered otherwise. So I think content for us has always been really a way to engage with our audience outside of just the four walls of the restaurants. I think for the food products that we're producing, content could not be more important. And I think for us, as we talked about before, it's really important not just to sell people these products, but to help show them how to use them.

20:22And I think we have a really unique voice and platform to do that with Dave and Momofuku. So what we find, honestly, which I think is really refreshing, is when we're sending out our emails, we have over 500 ,000 people on a mailing list. We have super high open rates, I think something around 65%. And because we feel really strongly that we're sending people content, we're sending them something that they can use, whether it's recipes, tips and tricks. It's really important for us, especially when someone makes their first purchase, to just send them useful information that will actually make them enjoy the products and then hopefully, you know, make them part of the routine and have them reorder.

21:00So it's way less, I would say, around discounts, around bundles, and way more around how can these become, you know, staples in your everyday weekday meals. Yeah, because there's so much discussion about content marketing. And I think the way that Momofuku does storytelling, sharing recipes, sharing videos from the community really feels like storytelling versus marketing. And I think that goes to also the community management part. And we talk a lot about building a community or managing influencer marketing. So what's your advice there where you're making it feel more as a community versus, quote unquote, managing influencer marketing or managing the community?

21:44Yeah, yeah. I think it's really starting with what's working, right? And pushing. We will find people that are organically posting about our products just because they love them. And then those are the people that we're going to say, hey, let's work together on producing content. So we're not kind of trying to sell someone on something that they're not already a believer in. But I think it's really giving those people an elevated platform, whether it's through Momofuku social accounts, where we are lucky to have a quite strong audience of over 500K. Dave's platforms have over 2 million. And so I think what's really interesting, especially if you're a new up and coming business, in a lot of cases, the kind of big brand that has been there forever actually has really terrible, you know, socials, very terrible presence on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, just because they probably come from a time where that wasn't the focus or the priority.

22:40And so I think those are the spaces where the younger, newer brand can really own and kind of be that voice. Something that I'm super excited about is when we do have new product launches, not only will we obviously share that with our most engaged customers, but we also leverage that group to do sampling of new products that we're working on or to get input on what they want to see next. I think we as a brand have always kind of prioritized the diehards, the people that are spreading the word to all of their friends. And I think if you can start there and have it continue to radiate out, that's how we find marketing works best as opposed to going for a much broader, wider group.

23:20Like find your disciples and really nurture and grow that. And then through word of mouth, social, et cetera, like it will continue to grow.

23:35And for, I think, like transitioning into a new space, there's always learnings. We've talked about a lot of them. Has there been things that maybe worked on the restaurant side, but it had to change or adapt for the consumer packaged goods side so the team had to adapt? I think what's really interesting about restaurants versus these home cooking products, especially on D2C, is actually the amount of information you have about your customers. We have some restaurants that predominantly are walk-in only, and it really takes a skilled manager or server to kind of be able to extract out of people where they're coming from, how did they hear about us, you know, all these things that are just kind of unknowns unless you kind of have that rapport.

24:22whereas it's been pretty incredible for us to be able to, you know, go into the back end of our store and really understand what states are people coming from, like how often are they ordering from us, you know, what are their favorite items, and I think there's a lot of companies on the restaurant side that are trying to solve that problem, you know, and kind of create more of a CRM for the restaurant community, but it's been pretty amazing for us to have that kind of level of data for D2C, where we can continue to improve and evolve our offerings, our landing pages, everything based on what we're seeing.

24:58So while it's a more distanced relationship, you could say, than restaurants, right, where you're kind of directly speaking to someone, in a lot of ways, it's more intimate or more info than we've ever been able to kind of understand our customers before. So I think it's an interesting new way of kind of thinking about customers and how to engage with them. We have a huge SMS list where we are pushing new products. I think SMS is one of the most intimate relationships a brand can have with an individual. So how do you use that and leverage that in a way that you're providing value and a positive experience?

25:34I would say, and this is where I think we really have a leg up as a restaurant group, is almost this idea of customer service, right? Or this idea of taking care of someone, creating an experience for someone. I think that that's something that we're always trying to do, whether it's D2C or if someone physically coming in to eat at one of our restaurants. So that I would say has not really changed. It's just how you're capable of doing it. Yeah, it's fascinating to learn about this new access to data. A lot of people talk about creating these different profiles or personas as they understand their customers.