How Siblings Are Turning Slow Living Into a Thriving Refillable Candle Brand

0:00David Bronkie:We're an analog product when you think about it. We're really actually about people slowing down. We want you to make the candle and then you get to burn it. At no stage is this about fast living and going quick. Welcome to Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and building a business. I'm your host, Adam Leventer. Most candles are designed to be thrown away. Siblings was built around the opposite idea. Co-founded by David Bronke, the brand makes refillable candles with luxury house fragrances and clean ingredients in a format you actually keep. Six years in, they're on shelves at Credo Beauty and Nordstrom with hundreds of thousands of candles sold.

0:40David Bronkie:We really see a vision for a world-class brand that is around for many, many years. David joins me now to talk about how brand collabs have fueled their growth, the subscription model that keeps customers coming back every season, and pricing a premium product in a crowded market. David, welcome to the show. Thank you, Adam. Thanks for having me. Excited to be on, absolutely. So let's rewind back to the beginning of this. 2019 was it where you and your sister found this company? Yeah, it was back in 2019. And a little bit of color on that is my sister, who is my co-founder, hence the name Siblings.

1:19David Bronkie:so we didn't get too creative there. But we grew up on a horse farm outside of Buffalo, New York. So we just, we watched our parents live extremely sustainably. I mean, I'm talking about like limited material things, everything passed down and fixed and a giant compost pile in the backyard. So we just kind of had this sustainable mindset instilled in us very early on. And the idea really came about from my sister, Eva, who ended up living in Stockholm. And she's surrounded by this incredible Scandinavian design. And the idea that most of them carry over there around owning fewer but better things, you know, objects that you actually keep.

2:01David Bronkie:And like a lot of people there, she was burning endless candles. The cold, dark winters will do that. So she kind of had a pretty good candle habit going. And she just realized that she was just burning them and throwing away these vessels. And a lot of times these are nice vessels are beautiful, but you can only keep so many. And what are you going to do with all of them? And it didn't feel right. So it's this beautiful ritual. It's supposed to bring you joy. And then at the end, you throw it away and it didn't make any sense. So that's where kind of the light bulb moment came on. And for her, it was trying to figure out what the next steps were to bring something to life.

2:37David Bronkie:And that's where she reached out to me and we ended up creating siblings and the candle you keep. The markets are different. The culture around candles and consumerism is different. North America, I think you'd probably agree that 90 % of consumers probably don't think of candles that way. They think of them as disposable. How do you start to bring this thinking into the forefront of the culture here? I mean, you nailed it. It really was not top of mind. It's not something that people think about is they can refill it. And that wasn't even available back then. So now there's a few more people that are thinking about it.

3:14David Bronkie:Diptyque now has a refillable, a few others. But it's amazing how in 2019 that was unheard of. And no one even talked about candles in the way that we did with being clean. And it's still the dirty little secret of the industry. I mean, that's the part that we wanted to really tackle was the fact that most candles are toxic wax. It's paraffin, byproduct of the petroleum industry. No one should be burning it in their home. but they're used in most luxury candles and all the cheap candles and then cheap synthetic fragrances with low loads. So you don't get that great scent throw. But yeah, we just looked at it as the North American market was filled with dirty candles and we could come in with a idea to kind of clean it up a little bit.

4:02David Bronkie:And that was what we pitched to people. And then also we found right away that people understood the concept of, do you have a drawer that's filled with empty jars? You're just keeping them for some kind of occasion. You've maybe tried to turn them into change jars or pen jars, bobby pin jars. And it was amazing how many people, when you brought that up, they're like, yeah, I do. I have that drawer in my kitchen. I have that stash that they've just, I'll do something with this at some point. So the problem really resonated once we kind of brought it up and made them a little bit more aware of it.

4:37David Bronkie:And that helped very early on. So the story spread really organically. In those early days, we got some great press and that really kickstarted the brand. So for us, it was, and it's always been, it's that education. People still are not thinking about candles as being something that they could refill. But once you kind of share with them, well, you probably have a favorite vessel. You have something that you have a little sentimental or you want to make a candle out of that, that's where the light bulb moment in everyone's head goes off and goes, ah, this makes a lot more sense. Do people think of candles as a novelty or a nice-to-have, or do they think of candles as an item that is necessary to have in the household?

5:17I mean, as a business owner, how do you come around to getting consumers to attach themselves to this and to make it a habit?

5:23David Bronkie:I think for a lot of people, it's very ritualistic. And that goes back to the fragrance side of it. I mean, fragrance just has the power to change your mood and create something that is uplifting or relaxing. And that's what we've leaned into a lot because we're putting so much thought and time into the fragrances. But that's really a person that siblings is for is someone that actually understands the power of fragrance and has the ritual built already into their life where they're looking for something. they start their workday by lighting that candle or the evening starts to unwind by lighting that candle.

6:03David Bronkie:It's less of that. I've just discovered this in the aisle with 500 other candle brands and I like this tiny little jar or maybe this scent smells good right now, but it's not going to smell good later. We're really putting more into the long-term side of it where someone is, they do have the vessel they want to keep forever. They love this scent because it reminds them of a memory, a time, a place, and they're trying to get back to that. So that's more of who we're talking to. And we found a lot of success with that person. Talk to me about how you and Eva, your sister split up roles and responsibilities.

6:40So she was living in Sweden. She planted the seeds for this idea. You come from a background in product development in the outdoor living space, is it?

6:49David Bronkie:Yeah, it was. So Eva obviously had this original idea and thought she wanted to get into the space. And I came from brand building. I had a previous brand in the outdoor industry, had grown that into many doors around the world, you know, your Zoomies, your REIs, Tillys. and so I kind of understand brand building, product design, how to get things made and Eva is much more the creative, the vision, great ideas and then she gets to tell me go go go make them figure out how to how to make it happen and we both have the same similar design eye and we we share a lot of those those feelings of where we want to see the brand the long-term vision and that makes it much easier.

7:36David Bronkie:But yeah, so the fragrance side comes from her. And then I get to work on the ops and make it all come together. I mean, ops and brand building are two huge components. Finding the right manufacturing partners is I think something that listeners are tinkering with in the moment, right? With whatever product they're trying to come up with. For you, how did you land on the right manufacturing partner? And what have you learn looking back? Yeah. I mean, if we go far enough back, there was a lot of microwaves that sparked and started on fire just because we were trying to figure out how to create these refills and figure out the materials for that.

8:12David Bronkie:So a lot of it was us just diving in in the early days before even having a manufacturer. We just wanted to see if this was possible. And that's the fun part. Get your hands dirty. And we did that a lot. But we ended up finding the right materials. And then from there, it was like, okay, now let's find manufacturing partners. And it's a lot of just start calling, just start reaching out. You know, most of them are going to tell you you're crazy. You don't have any clue what you're doing. And then you find a couple that are like, I'll take a chance. I like this idea. And those are the ones you run down and you ultimately, you're not going to land on the perfect one the first time, but it's just sort of iterating.

8:50David Bronkie:It's finding one and then learning, oh, these are the things I want to find in the next partner. And for us, it was actually relying on some of our network. And part of that was we knew we wanted the fragrance to be something that you could compare to the amazing brands like Diptyque and Olavo. So we really put a lot of effort in finding a fragrance house that already worked with those brands and were at the level that we wanted, you know, a luxury fragrance house. And we were so fortunate that those places actually did take a chance on us because they loved the idea. And then from there, they were able to help with some of the connections to some of our partners today.

9:33David Bronkie:And that's been huge. And I would imagine too, if they're developing fragrances for big luxury brands, that one of the more important components for you would be that they develop unique fragrances for siblings, right? That they're not sort of coming up with a fragrance that they're going to peddle across multiple brands at scale. So how do you develop that uniqueness or do you ask for exclusivity in your sense? Is that a thing? You're creating that anyway, because you just nailed it. They don't want to just repeat what they're doing for someone else. And a lot of times you can't, you know, those are proprietary scents.

10:06David Bronkie:Obviously you see it out there. There's the dupes and whatnot and fragrance. It's really hard, but the reality is these master perfumers, they want to create unique stuff. That's their first instinct. You'll have categories, woodsy, floral, citrus that you're kind of working within and you'll share that. But otherwise, they want to create something that's unique to your brand and then it's theirs. And all the really good brands, the high-end ones, they're doing the same thing. They're not looking at the other ones to try to create something that they have. Sure, you might see a few that are in the same vein, but it's just because there there might be trends that are happening.

10:42David Bronkie:So for us, when we were trying to figure out our core fragrances and then some of the unique ones we have, we bring inspiration. Most of it's from nature and Scandinavia. That's really where a lot of them have come from. Some of our best sense, you know, we have one coming out, Scandifornia, that we've been working on for two years to nail because we wanted to merge this California lifestyle with this Scandinavian forest, and we finally nailed it. But really it's inspiration from places that we've been and that we would want to burn in our homes and see people burning in their homes for the long term.

11:19David Bronkie:And then the other one I would mention is collaborations. That's been a huge part and you kind of touched on it earlier, but creating a unique sense around those collaborations has brought out some of our best sense. We did one with Fly by Jing in their very early days and we recreated their Shishuan Pepper and we were trying to find that spice that they have in their sauce. And it became such a unique scent. It was a little different. So you've got to take that into account. Sometimes with these scents, you're creating stuff that some people will not always gravitate towards. But in terms of uniqueness, we're always coming out with those.

11:56David Bronkie:And then one that's now become a staple in our line is Greenhouse. And we created that with a plant brand called Rooted. And now it's one of our top sellers. It's literally like walking into a greenhouse. You can almost feel that humidity and just the plant life and the soil that's just been watered. It's such a cool, unique scent. And we have yet to find anyone else doing something like that. So a lot of times it's just through those collaborations where a bunch of minds come together and it's like, can we figure out how to make this into a scent? And the best ideas come from that. Are those collabs happening organically or are they through your network?

12:36Are you reaching out cold? How are these coming together?

12:38David Bronkie:It's a mix. A lot of organic. Yeah, a lot of organic. A lot of times we just also think about the friends and the people that we see, brands that are doing really cool things and try to see if there's any interest. but most of them have come through organically. Fly by Jing was organic. Sometimes it does come about through the sustainability mindset because Fly by Jing, they have those little tiny jars and they were finding that they wanted to try to reuse them and making them into little candles was perfect. So you essentially could have your sauce, finish it, make a little cute little candle.

13:15David Bronkie:Those looked really cool because they had so many different colors on the front of their glass that when actually it was lit up, it kind of looked really, really neat. But yeah, some of them come through that. We have one that we're working on coming out this fall with La Fermeer, the yogurt company. That's been in the works for quite some time just because we've been friends with them. We hear so many people that love to make candles out of their little pottery jars. And eventually we're like, well, you got to just make a full-fledged collaboration. And that's going to be a really, really fun one coming out this fall.

13:47David Bronkie:But yeah, they come about kind of organically through network, through friends. Yeah, it's been a mix. Okay, so let's shift to brand building for a second. And that falls under your purview, as we just discussed. So let me pick a brain on this. Your approach and strategy as it relates to building a D2C brand from scratch. You started, you mentioned, with some early PR. Later on, I assume you shift to some meta stuff. what are sort of the phases of brand building? And if I'm a founder for the first time and I'm taking a look at my DTC business and I don't have a lot of cash set aside from a VC investor or otherwise, and I want to get my business off the ground, what do you suggest is the right approach?

14:31David Bronkie:This day and age, it's hard. Getting that awareness is the biggest thing. And we still are working through it every day. But I think it really is about trying to make some of those early connections with places that they need content. They need to talk about things. So yeah, meta might be the first place that you're like, oh, I'll just go start spending on meta. But the reality is there's a lot of different options out there. Media publications need to talk about stories. Content creators want things to talk about. So just build those relationships that then turn into eyeballs, turn into customers that hear about it, see it, and all that can be done fairly organically.

15:14David Bronkie:A lot of that is not necessarily somewhere you have to pay to play, but it is having a story that's strong and reaching out a lot and finding those places that do need something new to talk about or creators that do need something fun to do and to show their audiences. So I think that's where we've found more success. And even in the past, like just having a story that's shareable makes it easier for you to get those early customers. And then from there, those early customers, you know, hopefully you have an incredible product and they want to share it through word of mouth. They want to refer it to someone else.

15:50David Bronkie:And that gets kind of the wheels turning. And from there, then obviously you can start to do some of the current playbooks and get more meta and start spending on ads. But yeah, I don't think it's necessary, especially in the early days, and especially if you're playing the long game. If you don't need to have so much quick, fast growth, which is obviously detrimental at some stages, you're just trying to get loyal customers that are going to stick around for a while, and they'll stack. They will stack if your product is good, and they're willing to talk to someone else. What's your thinking around quick, fast growth?

16:28And I'll put that in air quotes. I think based on your approach to the brand building side and your approach to business in general, I would assume I'm going to know what you're going to say. But in general, you and your sister haven't taken venture capital, your bootstrap to date as far as I know. What is growth for you?

16:47David Bronkie:How would you define it? I think we look at what we're trying to build in the long term, And we really see a vision for a world-class brand that is around for many, many years. You know, we're looking at this more like a Patagonia or an ESOP. And we want to be around. And I think that is slower growth. Those brands didn't happen overnight. You can force it now. And there's some incredible stories around that. But for us, one, we don't have play money. We don't have VC money. And I think it's also category dependent. There are some products that lend themselves to quicker, faster growth, especially considering some trends of our times.

17:33David Bronkie:And otherwise, I think you've got to have a slower approach to it. And that also goes back to the brand. We're an analog product when you think about it. We're really actually about people slowing down. We want you to, you know, you get to make the candle and then you get to burn it. At no stage is this about fast living and going quick. I mean, it's baked into the essence of the brand. It's absolutely baked in. So these are candles for slower living. And I think that's where we're thinking about the brand building side as well. It's the 10-year overnight success story. That's more so. Or the 20-year.

18:11David Bronkie:We just have to keep stacking. So for us, we'd love to see that quick, fast growth. and be able to pour the gasoline on the fire with fun money. But that's just not realistic for us at our stage right now. It's fun to see that and read about it for some other brands. They're always like, that's incredible. But I don't think it applies to us. I think that's a lot of times for other founders too, listening. It's easy to see those stories and go, why not me? Why is that not happening to my brand? And I want to do that. And they're outliers. They're definitely outliers that you sometimes have to reel that thinking in.

18:54David Bronkie:Otherwise, you can feel like you're chasing something that's maybe unattainable for the most part. Somebody once called it, I'll never forget this. Someone once said, people get addicted to the business porn. You read the front page of said magazine, this founder exits for tens of millions or hundreds of millions. And it's a sexy story. It's all those things. But business just generally doesn't happen that way. And these are extraordinary outliers. So I appreciate what you're saying. I appreciate the perspective. Having said that, I would assume that given the brand that Siblings is, loyalty and retention have to be huge cornerstones of the business.

19:37So post-acquisition, you have a subscription model baked in. I assume you really value these things, right? Building customer loyalty and retention over time. It's sort of baked into the idea of candles as a habit. So how do you think about generating lifetime value from customers?

19:54David Bronkie:For us, it's everything. Loyal customers are what keep the lights on. They're what allows us to keep the growth happening. So we think about that all day. It is number one priority of trying to make sure that our customers feel good about the product and the experience and want to come back. And we're constantly thinking about little ways to do that. Most of our subscribers that stick around, it's because of the little things and the little details that I think that we're adding. One is the changing on the fragrances. They're always looking for something new. We've found that as one of the biggest retention drivers is bringing out unique scents that they can look forward to.

20:34David Bronkie:And then on top of that, it's the fun little details. So we work with whether it's little artists that make the art for a bag or we add in little gifts each subscription. So this month we're actually doing one with a journaling company called Intelligent Change. I know the founders. I know the story. I know the founders very well. That's funny. Yeah. So, um, and those are the partnerships that are awesome. Like you get to work with some really cool people, but it's the same mentality. Like you're making a candle. It's going to, you're going to have some time. You have to let this candle set. Why not, uh, journal for a little bit.

21:11David Bronkie:And I think that's, um, those are the things that our customers aren't expecting, but they get to look forward to the little things like that. And it just, it makes them want to stick around for longer and through all the cycles. So I think that's how we're approaching it is like, what can we do to make the customer look forward to the next one? What can we do to have them be a little bit surprised by what's coming out next? And it's been a game changer for our retention, especially on the subscription side of the business. Yeah, to close the loop on that, listeners may not know the name Intelligent Change, but that's the parent company for the Hero product five minute journal.

21:48So very cool. The actual subscription is different in the sense that it's quarterly, correct? It's seasonal. It's not a box or a candle that ships to you on a monthly basis.

22:00David Bronkie:The one that most people gravitate toward is our seasonal box and it is a quarterly subscription. So we have slowly been adding to that so you can get a candle a month, but we found that the quarterly subscription is the best. You every quarter, and they align with the season that we're in. So summer comes out and then fall, winter, and we really get to nail new scents for each season because a lot of it is your home sort of changing with the weather and the times. You might be spending different parts of your day in different portions of your home depending on the season. And I think that's something that we take into account with that seasonal box.

22:38David Bronkie:But we do offer the ability if someone wants just one candle each month, that's a possibility too. But our seasonal box that is quarterly seems to be what most people gravitate towards. Got you. Okay. For listeners that are coming to Siblings for the first time, I just want to outline this process that you peddle on your website. So people can choose their favorite candle. These new scents arrive seasonally. For example, if I'm if I'm subscribing to the quarterly box. And then I'm able to melt the wax and pour that in and light my candle. And I can repeat that process when I get new scents. Do customers have a lot of questions about how do I melt the wax?