How These Founders Got Noticed by Oprah's Team

0:00We always say you have two seconds because they're walking past your booth. It's like one 1 ,000, two 1 ,000. So you have two seconds to make an impression and get them to stop in to hear about your product. So how are you best gonna do that? Hey everyone, I'm Shuang Esther Shan and you're listening to Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and building a business. It can be super difficult to get your product noticed. And in some cases, it's less about marketing and more about building a unique product to begin with. That was the case with Wonderful, a company that makes stylish crossbody bags designed for carrying your water bottle.

0:39The product was named one of Oprah's favorite things in 2023, and the company has grown 1500 % since last year. Founders Katie Hill and Lisa Watkins are here today to talk about how they carved out a niche for their bags and got noticed by the right people. Katie and Lisa, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having us. Yeah, thank you for having us. This is great. So great to have you both with us. How did you come up with such a niche product? So Lisa and I were intent on starting a business together, and we just didn't know what we wanted to sell. So when we were brainstorming, I said, Lisa, you know, first of all, I was obsessed with carrying my water bottle everywhere.

1:23I've always been very health conscious and also environmentally mentally conscious. And then I also noticed I'm a former buyer, so I'm used to spotting trends. I noticed that a lot of people were also carrying their water bottles in one hand, a phone in the other hand. Add to that that I really wanted as an ex-New Yorker in the city for many years, I wanted to be able to go back into the city, carry my water bottle, but not, you know, I wanted a compact way to carry it, not have to buy plastic that, you know, throw away, et cetera. So I was like, I think that we should make a really cute bag that you could have everything, your water bottle and all of your necessities, make it stylish, lightweight.

2:04So I proposed that to Lisa, to which she said, but do people really want to carry their water bottles? I said, yes, I think they do. So we were doing a lot of research on different product ideas and I threw my 32 ounce water bottle in my bag on my way to Katie's house to work that day. And when I got there, the entire thing had dumped into my tote bag and drowned my computer. So as I was pouring all 32 ounces of water out of my bag into her sink, I said, you know, Katie, I think the universe is telling us that this is a great idea. Let's do it. And so we went forward full board. I mean, sometimes you need that skeptical friend to evaluate an idea.

2:45Digging to that a little bit further, Lisa, how did you begin to evaluate the market and make sure that this is a problem that's shared by other people as well? Yeah, absolutely. So I'm very data oriented. Katie, her background, she was a buyer at Saks Fifth Avenue, and she helped start the dot coms for Ann Taylor and Banana Republic doing buying in that end. And my background was actually very different. I wasn't in this industry. I worked in Silicon Valley for five years as a product manager. I went to business school and then I worked at Unilever doing like consumer packaged goods. So we just started looking at numbers.

3:21And so we looked at obviously the demand and sales for water bottles as a whole. We looked at the demand and sales for handbags and, you know, it was right after the pandemic. So actually we'd wanted to start our business prior to the pandemic. The pandemic happened, which we had to put things on pause because we each have three kids. And then we started afterward. And so demand and sales for both those categories were really growing. And interestingly, there wasn't any sort of data on water bottle bags, if you will. I mean, it really wasn't a category that was established at the time. And we like to think that we helped to establish it because now a bunch of companies have followed us into this area.

4:08And so part of it, because there was no data, part of it was anecdotal. And just like Katie said, you know, looking around, seeing different habits and attitudes of people. And we did do some market research. I mean, we, you know, very quick and dirty, putting together surveys on a market research software platform that I had and sending it out to friends and family and putting it out on the internet to see like what people's attitudes would be. And we just decided to go for it based on all the data that we had. We also did a few pop-up shows. Besides, we were direct-to-consumer at the get-go before going wholesale.

4:47And we did a few pop-up shows and we had such a great reception after I think three shows. And people kept coming to us saying, oh my goodness, like, you guys really have something here. You're so popular. So that's when we decided. Yeah. And that was after we had decided to go forward and launch, right? But prior to the launch, it was really a kind of a mix of art and science and courage, I guess, just jumping into the to the ring and doing it. It sounds like you both are very complementary to each other and come with a great experience. And of course, you did a lot of research doing those pop-ups, speaking to different individuals to validate the idea before launching.

5:28Was there any hesitation when you approached manufacturers or approached different people with your idea? And how do you work past those hurdles and still motivate yourself? Because I think a lot of listeners might face that as they come up with a new idea as well. Both Lisa and I really both always, I think, wanted to be entrepreneurs. And I always kind of put it out there like, I want to own my own business. I just need the right partner. And I always, when I'm talking to people, I say, you know what, it's great to have your own business, but I strongly recommend And if you're a first-time owner, finding the right partner.

6:05Lisa and I have a great yin and yang, push and pull. As she likes to say, she's the gas, I'm the brakes, and we always meet somewhere in the middle. So it just really, I think, for me, that's the number one thing, is having a great business partner and somebody that doesn't necessarily have the same experience that you have. Because like you mentioned, we are very complementary in our backgrounds and our strengths. If you ask if there's hesitation, I mean, there always is. As I tell people, starting a business and being an entrepreneur is not easy. It's not for the faint of heart. Were there moments where we said, what the hell are we doing?

6:43Absolutely. Especially when we're figuring out like our very first production run, we only did 800 units. and Katie and I talked about it and we said oh my god it's like is 800 too much is it enough because we we started this business with money out of our own pockets that we're taking away from our children and so of course there's hesitation there because if we fail right it's literally money that would have you know gone to taking care of our own children um but you just have to go for it when you think you have a good idea and your gut is telling you to go forward, you have to do it even as scary as it is.

7:20And it was very, very scary. That first production run is so nerve wracking because to your point, you are investing your own assets into it. And also you're waiting to see if people actually want to commit and actually purchase from you. So what are some important things to think about when you're going through prototyping, iterating, and just working with a manufacturer in general? So first of all, I would say there are two huge lessons that we learned. Number one is start small because no matter what you're producing, you're going to change it from that very first production run. There are always going to be tweaks.

8:01So when we roll out something new, we typically do a smaller order because we want to get it out into the marketplace and get feedback. I mean, whether it's does the pocket need to be a half inch deeper? does the, you know, for us, like the quilting thread, maybe it needs to be a different consistency. Like you're going to find little minute details that you're going to want to change. So don't go overboard and order, you know, a ton of units because it really, what you should do is start small and test. The second thing is you will hear people on podcasts and things say, oh, you know, what you want to do is you want to have your units go directly from your factories directly to the warehouse or wherever you happen to be selling them.

8:50Don't do it. We almost made that mistake, which would have been very costly to our business. We had our very first production run sent to our houses, or we live a block from each other. and we put eyes on every single unit we looked and touched and inspected every single unit and frankly only about half of them met to our satisfaction and in our eyes were saleable if we had had them sent directly to the warehouse we never would have picked up on that we would have gotten you know terrible reviews and it it wouldn't have worked well our first production one was 800 units. And then fast forward, we launched March of 2022.

9:33And a mutual friend, her name is Katrina, shout out to Katrina, bought our very first bag. We didn't know how we would sell the other 799. And fast forward to December of that same year, we shipped and sold 44 ,000 units out of our houses ourselves. Wow. From the get go, we've just been very militant about quality. We always say, thank God we had them shipped to our houses and inspected them because that could have really, you know, kind of sunk us from the beginning had we not found some of the issues that we did find. And then, you know, we went back to our manufacturers and, you know, made it very clear that, you know, this is not acceptable and this is what we're looking for and We won't accept anything other.

10:21We also started inspections before the goods were shipped because obviously once they're here, they're your problem. When they're still at the manufacturers, it's their problem. A big issue too when you're first starting is getting the manufacturers to realize that you're legitimate, right? Because you want to do small orders. So it's a balancing act at the beginning because when you're brand new, they don't know who you are. They want to trust you, but you can't also come in with super small orders because you have to let them know that you're serious and that you're here to do business. So it's a balancing act for sure.

10:57And then, Katie, I understand you're also in the process of patenting the design for Wonderful. Tell us about that process and why it's so important. So it has been a very long and arduous process. We submitted for our patent, I believe it was in December of 2022. Here we are almost two years later, and we're knock on wood. We've been told by our lawyer that we are getting close. But that's also after three, four months ago, maybe five months ago, expediting the patent because we have definitely people nipping at our heels, let's just say. And we're very, very anxious to get this patent to go through.

11:39The reason that one would want to get a patent, yes, because I think one of your questions was why bother with it, basically. So we have had our hands tied as far as shutting down counterfeit. People have actually started counterfeiting our product. And it is harder to shut down without an approved patent. So there are things you can do. I mean, you can get the images removed and you can copyright those images. And you can make life very difficult for them, which we consistently do. You know, they get taken down, they go back up, they get taken down again. Once we have our patent, it will be much easier to get them removed, but also they'll be liable for damages.

12:21So anything that they've sold that was a dupe of our product, they're on the hook for. And we can actually have, at least with Amazon, we can have their assets frozen, which, you know, we have no problem doing since they're, you know, funneling money away from our business. So I think the patent is important and it's expensive and it takes a long time, but ultimately it's worth it. All things being equal, would it have been better to have a patent first? Yes. However, you know, especially knowing what we know now, do you want to put your business idea on hold for two years? No. So we've dealt with it the best, you know, way we've been able to, you know, with lawyers and cease and desist and things like that.

13:08But, you know, we felt that this hole in the market was not going to exist forever. So we wanted to kind of jump into the market. And we've tried to deal with it as best we could, like I said, with this long wait time with a patent. But it's definitely, you know, a consideration, right? Whether you start before you go to market or you just kind of deal with it as you go along. Does it feel validating in a way as well? Because Katie, to your point, when you pitched this idea to Lisa, she also questioned, do people want a separate bag for their water bottles? And now you've created this whole new market and there's also people trying to copy what you're doing.

13:47So does it oddly feel validating in a way? Oh, for sure. And believe me, sometimes if we're, let's just say at odds, I'll be like, so Lisa, what do you think? Do people want to carry a water bottle? She actually usually says it when we've done something extremely successful. She's like, what do you think? Do people want to carry the water bottle bag? I'm like, you were right. You were right. Absolutely, they do. Yeah. Yeah. And I know you first initially focus on Shopify, Amazon, selling solely online, and then you also entered into wholesale. How did that change the business? Changed it tremendously.

14:26Really the first week that we launched, we started doing Instagram ads and a woman who her name is Lori, she does pop-up gift shows close to our area. And so she basically said, I love this. You know, do you do wholesale? I want to sell it. And so we took a chance and we did. And soon she was ordering the bag, you know, a hundred at a time. And so we said, wow, maybe we should really, you know, think about doing this in a widespread manner. So we did our first show, New York Now at the Javits Center. And we were wildly successful at that show because no one had ever seen this idea before. And so we quickly added, what was it, Katie, 80 stores, 60 stores?

15:13Oh, it was over 100. Over 100 stores, our first show, yeah. We've done a bunch now, so it's hard to remember. But these stores, I mean, we have probably 650 plus stores that we sell into, and they generate a lot of revenue for us. We kind of joke that they pay the bills and keep the lights on and we really love our retailers. And it's a great opportunity to get feedback from all of these buyers and store owners, because what we'll do is we'll take our new ideas and our new samples to the shows and we get feedback from them. And so we can tell if it's a good idea or not. Most of the time, the ideas that we have do go forward, but we've had a couple that they've been like, eh, you know, not so excited about.

16:01And we haven't launched them, you know, based on our retailers' feedback. I have to give credit to Lisa here because, again, as we said, she's the gas. And she said, you know, Katie, I think we need to try it. I think we need to do a show at the Javits. And, you know, we were nervous. It's a big step. It's a big expense. And she said, you know, all we need to do is just make back what, you know, the cost of the show. And as we like to say, the show, I believe, was three days long. By noon the first day, we had made back what we spent to be in the show. So that was definitely a win. And I have to give Lisa kudos for pushing us in that way.

16:40And again, it's just another example of having a great partner, having the gas and the brakes. And I think it's one of the keys to our success is just our differing strengths that we bring to the table. I think that's part of our secret sauce, to be honest. Investing back in the business is so important and I want to dig in deeper into how to pick shows and how to invest in them. I would just like to take a moment to thank our listeners for tuning into the show. Make sure you're subscribed to Shopify Masters wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss a new episode. And if you know another entrepreneur, tell them about us.

17:22Thank you so much. So of course, this is a great unlock investing into trade shows, pop-up shows, and getting the word out there even more. How do you choose which shows to actually invest in and know that it's worth attending? So honestly, it's been a little bit of trial and error, to be honest. You know, we started with this show at the Javits, and it was great at the beginning. We've since stopped doing that one and doing others, but it's been a lot of trial and error seeing which shows work for us, which regions work for us. And we're still constantly trying new shows and dropping. But the great thing about the shows besides gaining retailers for our wholesale business, as Lisa mentioned before, is having a great arena for feedback.

18:13You learn not only like what customers want and don't want, but also just all kinds of ideas, whether it's platforms that you should be using to grow your business and meeting all kinds of contacts there for, you know, technical tools or whatever. But it's just an unbelievable place to exchange ideas with other business owners, other, you know, creative people, etc. etc. It's invaluable, to be honest. We also talked to other entrepreneurs. So the first show we went to, we said, what other shows should we do? What other shows do you do that are successful? And then we talked to our new customers.

18:54What shows do you think we should do? Where are you typically buying, you know, the merchandise for your stores? And so we were able to really compile a list based on feedback from other entrepreneurs and our customers, which was really invaluable. It also energizes you. As all of the entrepreneurs know, listening, most of us most likely work from home and you're sitting inside your home office, toiling away, sometimes by yourself. And getting out into a trade show is so energizing and invigorating because you're meeting so many people, you're exchanging ideas, you're showing your new products, you know, to the world and getting feedback.

19:36And it's exciting. It's a great sort of way to continue the motivation of plotting forward and and working on your business. Because, you know, starting a new business and being an entrepreneur, it's hard, it's really difficult. And it can also sometimes feel like very discouraging. And so this is a way to really motivate yourself as well and renew the energy into your business. Sounds like it's a snowball effect where you're also getting inspired and also understanding where to invest in next. Once you're at one of these shows, how do you make sure your booth and your products really stand out in the show?

20:16There's a lot of pre-planning that goes into, you know, the booth. And Lisa and I actually used to do it all ourselves. but we now have somebody that helps us with it or really manages it. So I had actually had trade show experience prior to our first show. You want to do your homework before you exhibit at your first trade show. Don't just show up with, you know, a little sign in your product. What you want to do is talk to the show runner. You want to ask them to provide pictures of, you know, other booths that are successful, what people have done in the past. and you need to spend a good two to three months prior preparing.

21:00It's not something you should do at the last minute because it's almost like a science fair project, right? You don't want to be the kid that did it the night before. And with, you know, the homemade scribbled poster board and pencil, you really have to have your act together because this is how you're presenting your business and your idea to the world. And so it makes a big difference. And there's a lot of different people showing the show. So you need to make yourself stand out amongst, as I've explained it to friends and family, these shows, some of them can be like one shopping center piled on top of another shopping center on top of another.

21:40I mean, one of the shows we go to is 13 to 15 floors and each one is the size of, you know, like a big department store. So you really have to figure out a way to stand out amongst all of the other people that are there and get people's attention, right? And I think that the messaging is really important. And so often as entrepreneurs, we are so deep into our own product that we forget that other people haven't seen it and don't know everything that we know. And so you really have to dumb it down and speak to your audience as if, because most of them have never seen it before, right? So a lot of the messaging is speaking to the boutique owners and the buyers of the multi-chain stores, messaging to them, not necessarily to an end user, of why this will make them money, why they should purchase it for their customers.

22:33And also talking about the benefits and how it will change their customers' lives for the better. And so that messaging is also very, very important because what happens is people literally you have is like we always say you have two seconds because they're walking past your booth. It's like one one thousand to one thousand. So you have two seconds to get to make an impression and get them to stop in to hear about your product. So how are you best going to do that? And that's what we're always thinking about. Well, you certainly caught a lot of attention, not just of retailers and buyers. You also caught the attention of a member of Oprah's team who puts together the curation for her favorite things.

23:17Yeah, what's your advice for getting your products seen by tastemakers or curators? Again, these shows are very important. We get asked that question a lot. How did you, you know, meet up with them? And honestly, a lot of people are at these shows, not just buyers from stores, but also people from magazines, editorialists, et cetera. So I think that when you are at a show and you're very successful and there's a lot of people at your booth, that highlights, okay, this is something we need to check out. and we were very fortunate from the get-go to always be quite swamped at our booth, to be honest, which I think caught the attention of Oprah's people and others, so.

24:03We're so grateful to them and we're so lucky. I mean, we're just like so blessed that they picked us and we're so super psyched about it. Correct me if I'm wrong, Katie, but I think they spent one show sort of off to the side watching our booth and didn't even talk to us And then the next show, they did the same thing. And then I think approached us at one point, but it was, you know, it was very exciting. And that's really, you know, one of the best ways to get noticed because they do have a team of people looking for new, unique, problem-solving items. And I think that that's part of the secret of our success is solving a problem that people had, which is, you know, having their hand, always holding a water bottle in one hand, forgetting it, losing it, having to spend money buying disposable bottles and, you know, putting more plastic into the environment.

25:00And so I think it's another thing that, you know, I'm so like, thankfully, we did launch a problem-solving product instead of a Me Too product, you know, which I would personally caution to stay away from. And it's a testament to all of the hard work you've put into, and it shows that it takes a while for someone to catch on, and they also want to see how you grow. So that's really cool to hear as well. I also think there's also the importance of paying attention to trends, but also incorporating it in a way that makes sense for you and the brand. So how do you think about trends when it comes to developing new products and whether you follow them or not?

25:47So for instance, let me just go back to when we developed this product. You know, Lisa said this didn't exist. We knew that actually this bag existed in a certain way. It existed more in a like a hiking way, kind of just a basic black hiking people that are outdoor enthusiasts. And then we also started to see things come down the runway, not necessarily bags, but just different ways that designers were having water bottles like thrown over a model, whether it was like just a strap that held the water bottle or whatever. A strap for$2 ,000 that didn't hold anything else. Yeah. So we saw that like this existed down here.

26:31It started to come from the runways up here. And Lisa and I said, you know what, we want to find that space in the middle, that white space of a stylish, functional, reasonably priced product that goes to the masses because it's only a matter of time, right, that it's going to come there. So let's get there first. So I think it's always, and to be honest, these shows are also great for trendspotting, right? Because when you see new things at these shows, you see, okay, this is becoming important, this particular space. How are we going to put our spin on it if we're going to, right? So I think it's important to have your eye on what's going on out there, whether it's down the runways or it's at these shows.

27:10And then realizing if it's something that is important for your business or not, and then how you're going to adopt it in your own way, right? Rather than, as Lisa said, being a me too product. That's not, we don't think a recipe for success to just do something that somebody else did, but rather carving out your own niche to make it yours. And I think it's important to constantly think about your customer. So as far as trends specifically, so we'll look at, you know, what's coming down runways or, you know, Vogue colors for the next season because we are a little bit of a fashion, you know, product.

27:49I say that in quotes because we're obviously not a high fashion product, but you know, we do different styles and colors and things. So things will come down the runway. And even though, you know, some of them are, you know, the colors or the fabrications or the way they've done it are really fantastic. And sometimes it might be something that we know would never work for our customers. So even though it's a trend. Like we know her, we know who our customer is and, and that's not going to work. Right. So we'll say, you know, we're, we're not doing that. So it really is always customer first and thinking about what she would like and what she would wear and what she wants.