How To Create A Viral Product And Sell Out Over 30,000 Units

0:00When 30 to 40 ,000 sheet masks turn up for your first order, you better have a good plan to sell them.

0:09Hey everyone, welcome to Shopify Masters. I'm Shuang Esther Shan and this is your companion for starting and scaling a business. How does a viral moment change your business? Nick Jonas told GQ that he cannot live without the bro mask. That's when Jen Yu and Alex Penfold knew their bet on men's skincare has paid off. The first thing that we did was making a pretty bold decision about really calling this out that this was for men. We call it serious skincare that doesn't take itself too seriously. Jackson Lane creates high-performing yet approachable skincare products tailored to men. We don't want to launch a product unless we feel it's better than everything in the same category for women as well.

0:51I've got both Jen and Alex with me today to share the practical advice you need to develop effective products and PR relationships that pay dividends. Jen, Alex, welcome to the show. Thank you, Shrein. It's great to be here. Yeah, thank you for having us. I'm so excited to have you both here. I love love stories and I love featuring founders who are life and business partners. Your dynamic actually inspired this business because, Jen, you're a little bit sick of Alex stealing your skincare products. Yeah, so talk to us about that light bulb moment of how Jackson Lane came to be. So that is how it started.

1:31Alex, like a lot of couples, I think, was always dipping into my skincare and almost felt like the more expensive or premium skincare, the more he wanted it, right? So I'd come home, it's 3 p.m. on a Wednesday afternoon, he's got a she mask on, he's in bed enjoying his, you know, enjoying his best time, enjoying my skincare. And so I think we asked each other at the time, why isn't there a men's skincare brand that's marketed to men that feels approachable for them, but it's actually excellent quality product. Everything at the time was just not, it was like dyed blue and kind of ugly packaging.

2:04And it wasn't as good as what was available for women, which is why they were all stealing their partner's products. And so we said, let's go make his favorite product a sheet mask, but customize it for men. And I know he was having struggles with the fit of the masks at the time. Yeah, so if I ever had any facial hair, all the masks at the time were one piece. So then they would hang over the facial hair and it just wasn't really compatible. And so we really thought there was an opportunity here to design a mask with the man's face in mind. So we flew off to Korea to really design a sheet mask with a man's face in mind and give them the option of doing just the top half or both the top and the bottom piece.

2:43That was the beginning. So exciting. And I know that, you know, this idea sounded great to the both of you. But how did you validate beyond, you know, you guys to make sure other people were also thinking like, OK, you know what? I do actually want skincare that's more tailored to me, tailored to men and with their needs in mind. I think at the time, you know, skincare was growing in popularity amongst men. Sort of the final frontier, like men are interested in their, you know, their health, their hair, their beard, going to the gym. But then the skin, you know, the facial skincare was being sort of left behind a little bit.

3:18But it was definitely a growing area. And, you know, for me with the sheet mask, when I put that sheet mask on, it was definitely the first time. It was the first time that I really realized what a good skincare routine could give you. Because it really, you know, it doesn't last very long. It lasts for two or three days, the sort of the glow that you get from putting the sheet mask on. But, you know, it's sort of a shortcut to the potential of what a good skincare routine could look like. And so, you know, it's been a great introductory product for a lot of people where, you know, they're like, Like, wait a second, now I'm going to start getting into moisturizers and serums and eye creams and different things like that to, you know, build upon what they've realized from the beginning there.

3:57It's so exciting that the both of you jumped on a plane to actually talk to producers, manufacturers to bring this idea to life. What were you thinking before preparing for this trip? So I think for us, that actually came at the end of a year of trying to source online. So I think like a lot of other entrepreneurs, it's like you want to find it on the Internet and make it easy. And so we did this for a year. We're sourcing products from Korea, from Japan, from China, all these different places. And nothing that came back was the quality that we would be proud to, you know, sort of build a brand behind.

4:29So eventually we realized we really had to go in person. And once we got to Korea, we realized that because Asia is such a big market for Korea, right, Korea is the beauty capital of the world. But they make all of their sales selling to countries like China because the market's so big. So they didn't have a big focus on selling to American companies. And so that's why it was like you couldn't get the good stuff online. So when we went there, we knew exactly what SKU we wanted. It was a hydrogel sheet mask. We went to a trade show, lined up all the manufacturers that make that specific product, met with all of them, sampled all the products, and then finally chose the one that we wanted to work with.

5:05And I think this is, you know, when I speak to a lot of other people who are starting businesses these days, this is the part that everyone is sort of shocked to hear. like, oh, you actually have to physically go there. And it's not just about sort of finding a thing. It's also relationship building with a lot of these manufacturers. If you've never sold anything and you want to buy like a few hundred units, like they're just not, there's no incentive for them to invest in that business or that relationship. And so I think being there in person really helps that as well, build that trust factor.

5:33Yeah, well, for them, it's, you know, they don't know the growth potential yet of Jackson Lane. And for that process, right, you're finding the right partner. You're also trying to work with them to iterate, to create something new. What is some advice there when you're trying to communicate with someone who don't really need your business because they have a huge market close by, but you're trying to convince them to take a chance on you? I think at the time, you know, there's a lot of manufacturers that saw the opportunity in the men's market specifically and, you know, people having trouble tapping into it.

6:07And so there was a promise for us on our end where it was like, oh, here comes the opportunity, you know, maybe Jen and Alex can make it happen. So there was probably a little bit more of a willingness to go along with us because we were not, I don't think there were any other people knocking on their door, pitching what we were. And then, you know, for us too, we had to put our commitment on the line because sheet masks in particular have a very high minimum order quantity because of the way that the rolls spin out. And so when the, you know, 30 to 40 ,000 sheet masks turn up for your first order, you know, you realize that, you know, you better have a good plan to sell them.

6:43So. Were you guys just covered in boxes in your house? There were just. Well, no. So the first order, because it was so, it was like pallets and pallets of stuff. And so we had to start with a 3PL, which is a third party logistics company, where they ship out products for brands. So we were sort of forced into trying to make it scale from day one because we just had no option where like this stuff is going to expire in a couple of years. Like we need to move some volume. Wow. What an exciting jumpstart to all of that, right? And then I guess like taking a step back on formulation, what is like the biggest differentiator that you've found when you're thinking about formulating with men in mind versus a traditional skincare brand that caters mostly to women.

7:26So men do have thicker skin. So the formulation can benefit from being a little bit stronger with active ingredients. We also have a focus on sort of inflammation. Shaving, for instance, can cause redness. And so calming ingredients that can help with soothing. We've really tried to focus on hyperpigmentation, evening of skin tone, which through speaking to our dermatologist partners, that's what the men are coming into their offices and talking about and, you know, voicing concern about. And so a lot of our formulation has been, you know, from feedback that we've received from dermatologists.

8:05I think another piece is, obviously with men, it's like the products have to work because a lot of men, they're not really doing skincare for the, like women do, right? With the consistency and just sort of, you just know it's part of your process. You enjoy the pampering, the experience. And so for us, it's really making sure that the products work, they're effective within the first couple of weeks, you start to see a difference. And also a lot of our male customers, they don't like stuff that feels heavy or greasy, right? So it's like we make sure all of our products absorb easily, like our sunscreen is very lightweight.

8:32And obviously for the masks, they're functionally sized up and the eye gels as well for men. Love it. I did start the day with some eye gel, the bro eye mask, if you will. Very calming. So I can attest to that. And I think you know, when you're iterating with new partners, there is that tension between launching and perfection. So how do you find that balance where you're kind of like, I am happy and I need to be ready to launch now and commit to those 30 ,000 masks? Yeah, I think that. Well, I was just going to say, we may be overly involved in testing because we do go back and forth multiple times.

9:09And I think for some of our products, you know, I think for companies that are VC backed and really have this pressure to them to just grow with product release, product release, go, go, go, go. I do think products are released quite quickly without this back and forth. And so there's an in-between between with us trying to perfect this product through going back, you know, five, six, seven, eight, nine rounds of back and forth with manufacturers to really, you know, get the, you know, the formulation perfect. But, you know, I think that's been really... It's really critical to, I think, our successes because we don't want to launch a product unless we feel it's better than everything in the same category for women as well.

9:50And I think the reason the manufacturers are willing to do this now, I don't think they would have done this like our first run, right? And we did not do this in our first run. And over time, we've actually switched manufacturers. I think in the beginning, we did partner with one that was probably too big for us and didn't want to do all these things that we're asking them to do. And so over time, as we grew bigger, we've gone back to Korea. We still make a trip back there at least once a year. And since then, we've moved on to smaller businesses that are almost more like us, where it's like, you know, smaller team, younger team that really like is invested in trying to build something together.

10:27And I think through those relationships, that's how we're able to really like get the perfection because they're willing to do these things with us. And then once we started getting the awards for the products, they started seeing all the press and they're like, oh, wait, like this is actually like it's something that they feel proud to be behind as well. And so I think that's really helped us is finding like people that are willing to partner with you. Yeah, because they get excited about the growth as well. Totally. They love the celebrity moments. Like, you know, sometimes they'll send it to us.

10:53I'm like, oh, you're following this as well. And also, just in our previous visit to Korea, we learned also too that they have been surprised about the longevity of our product. Because especially in South Korea where skincare is a trending product and so viral skincare goes and for six months, there'll be just an amazing run on it. But then it just completely switches and they'll close down the product category with a lot of these brands. And so we are sort of the number two hydrogel purchaser with this very large factory. and year after year, we've consistently sold, you know, a lot of our Bromask eye gels, our sheet masks.

11:31You know, I think that they're just like, we don't know how you guys keep on doing this year after year because everybody else, they just come and it's a six month run. And if it doesn't go viral any longer, they close it down and that will be the end of the product. So that was kind of a good moment for us. We were like, oh, wow, thank you. We're excited that, you know, we've been able to differentiate ourselves and keep people coming back for more. So, yeah. Yeah, you've come a long way since that initial 30 ,000, 40 ,000 masks landing here. I do want to get an understanding of like, now that you have the product, you're happy with it.

12:03How did you get customers and launch this thing? So I think like many other entrepreneurs, we launched a family and friends, which is crickets. You know, a couple of people are like, oh, I'll help them out and place an order. And I think both of us were first-time entrepreneurs and neither of us were marketers. And so, you know, we didn't have the, we're bootstrapping. We didn't have the budget to be spending tens of thousands of dollars on Facebook ads. And then one day we had a friend, one of our family and friends, email friends, reach out and say, I want to do PR for you guys. And so she was at an agency at the time and loved the idea behind the brand.

12:40And so she gave us a great rate because she was a friend and that was our publicist for the first two or three years. So we, from day one, have had consistent PR. And I think for a lot of startup entrepreneurs, they're looking at the cost of doing PR, right? And it is like a daunting amount of money, especially to think about doing a long term. And what I realized too is PR is not a thing where you can turn it on and in three months, you're like in all these magazines, right? It really is a long term commitment. And it has to be for the right product that has the potential for people to want to talk about it in press.

13:11So for us, that's really been like one of our first ways of getting a brand out there. And so in the beginning, she started doing things like gifting celebrities, right? And I think ultimately that's how Nick Jonas found out about the brand was because he'd received a gift and loved the product enough to make it part of his daily routine. And I think another big moment for us that drove both customers to purchase product, but also drove inbound retail was, I would say, six months in, we were interviewed by the Wall Street Journal for a broader piece. It wasn't about us. It was about just men doing sheet masks in general.

13:45I think it was about men being, you know, not only are they doing skincare, but now they're doing sheet masks. Like, this is unbelievable. Like, how outrageous that men are also doing sheet masks. It was like, this is 2018, I think. It was like unthinkable, right? that gave us a good amount of exposure as well. And from then on, I think it was just, you know, we do, I think, similar things to what most other brands do, which is, you know, you have to do the ads and, you know, we do the email marketing, SMS marketing, all these things that we built on over time. But I think having that initial, like, exposure to a large number of people that we couldn't have gotten with our own budget was really helpful.

14:19And we also can't forget the micro-influencers, right? So at the very beginning, when we started, sheet masks were definitely trending in America at the time. So there was a moment in time where sheet masks were a big thing. There were people that were reviewing a different sheet mask every single day. And so that was their thing. Like they would just, they would do a new sheet mask every day. And, you know, there weren't any sheet mask design with men in mind. And so we contacted all of these micro-influencers and said, hey, would you like to try this? And they'd be like, yeah, sure. I can't wait to tear this apart, you know, because they're really difficult.

14:51Like, you know, in terms of their ratings and all this type of system. And then they, you know, got it and put it on. And I think they were like, wait a second, this is a legit sheet mask. You know, this is, if not the best one I've used, you know what I mean? And so a lot of the writers that are writing for magazines were actually following some of these micro-influencers. And then they then would reach out to our publicist or to our team directly and just be like, hey, I just saw, you know, this review about the sheet mask. Can you please send me one? I'd love to try it. And sort of it grew from there.

15:19I love that anecdote because it also shows how much prep you have to get those PR mentions because, you know, seeding micro influencers, that leads you to more publications noticing you. So I guess like what are some other things you did to prep yourself to be ready to be written about because, you know, your site, your imagery, everything is so easy to be understood and also easy to feature as well. The first thing was calling it bro mask. Now, this, so basically, you know, this, we went back and forth on this a lot because we didn't want to be the bro brand or, you know, the kind of like, you know, like college frat boy type situation.

16:00We wanted it to be like a mask that a man would stop and say, ask questions to the retailer. When you're on the shelf, you know, men walking by, they're not really into skincare. Maybe they're going to stop and read the back of this box and figure out what this is about. And so that was literally the first thing that we did was making a pretty bold decision about, you know, really calling this out that this was for men. Obviously, our branding and everything we've done to try to, you know, balance that with class has been the challenge of our branding. is to really deliver on a premium product that can be on the shelf at Saks Fifth Avenue and succeed and also be something that we can come out with other products that are not named with a bro title, for instance, like our sunscreens and our moisturizers, our serums that are more unisex in nature.

16:46Yeah, because I think there's also an element of education for this category, right? Where you're trying to be entertaining and fun, but you're also trying to weave in just like how to embrace skincare for men. So how do you balance those two sides in your content and everything that you do? I think that's still a bit of a challenge for us. What we do is we do make very, we call it serious skincare that doesn't take itself too seriously, right? And so it's fun to do the like fun captions, but ultimately the education part is hard because we're not dumbing down the products to make it easier for people to understand, right?

17:20They're obviously very nice to apply, not difficult to use, but formulation wise, like they're really excellent products. An example is our sunscreen. We wanted to launch sunscreen. And I really felt strongly that it had to be SPF 50 because, you know, if you truly want to prevent the signs of aging and all of that, it needs to be like well above 30. Right. And I think at the time people were saying to us, that's crazy. Like men don't want that because they want to get a little color. we felt really strongly that we need to make a product so great, so lightweight to put on that SPF 50 doesn't feel like SPF 50.

17:54And so I'm not sure that we've completely solved for the customer education while balancing the funness of it. But I think that's also sort of what we are known for is, you know, people are getting the bro mask expecting it to be something ridiculous and not very good. And then they're like, oh, wait, this is actually like excellent. And it's sort of that like jarring sort of experience. Well, I think you guys are doing a really great job at it. And it's a constant process. Every single post, you have to think about that element as well. And I know that, you know, skincare is very much a ritual, which is great because the lifetime value of a customer ideally would be ongoing and ever flowing.

18:32But how do you think about retention when it comes to loyalty programs and ambassador programs? Yes. So that's a great question. Loyalty and retention is something we really started hyper-focusing on this year. Because as many of your listeners would know, it's like acquisition costs for ad spend to get new customers has just like risen exponentially over the last few years, right? And so we launched a loyalty program earlier this year. And so, you know, you can accrue points to make purchases and refer friends, etc. We offer subscriptions and that's something that we'll continue working on as well.

19:06and I think generally what we try to do is just have like incredible customer service, right? Like we're competing with Amazon, right? We all sell on Amazon, but it's like, you know, we try to get the products out with two-day shipping if possible. We have free shipping. Like we'll do for our customers that have ordered many times, we throw in surprise gifts for them. We write them handwritten notes. I mean, it's, you know, and we do everything we can do to help our customer be successful in their skincare journey and just like enjoy shopping with us. Alex, maybe talk to us about the ambassador program.

19:37Who do you look for and what are you thinking about for people to represent the brand? Yeah, so we honestly have always pursued influencers and ambassadors that really are fans of our brand. That has been always the strongest thing. I think that's probably common for a lot of brands is that when you're looking for someone to speak to your brand, you need to make sure that they are already a supporter of you. And if not, you can kind of read it. So when you're speaking to them and interviewing them for a potential retainer, for instance, on TikTok to try to have them posting regularly, you know, does this person love your brand?

20:11And are they with you on the journey? And do they really believe in you? Because it shows through. Especially today on TikTok, it's like everybody's, it's authenticity. It's like you can smell it, you know, immediately when you see an influencer, you know, like, does this person really believe in this thing or are they just doing it for money? And so I think that's what it is for us when we're looking for ambassadors. It's like, it has to be, there has to be authenticity. There was a time when we were sending out a lot of product to a lot of different influencers and we just weren't seeing great traction.

20:39And so we are trying to pivot more now towards, you know, having folks that are, you know, people that we've more like interviewed and more of a careful selection process to promote the products. Taking it back to that, you know, those viral moments with Nick Jonas and Niall Horan, I think those moments are great, but it's also about how you build on that momentum and grow from there. So I guess what's your advice when something exciting happens and now you're kind of also have to figure out the back end and like be ready to actually account for the interest that's inflowing into your business?

21:13Well, I think it takes a team of folks, basically, to promote something effectively. And then you also have to be quite careful about when something does happen organically, do you even have permission to promote this in the way that you want to? So you kind of have to look into this a little bit. So just say you win a grooming award, you have to pay the publishing company to actually license out the ability to tell anyone about the fact that you won the award. And so, you know, there's a lot of sort of back-end logistics that goes into play. And then once you figure out and secure all the licensing and make sure that it's okay to promote it, then you can go live out on all your channels to really promote it and make the most of it.

21:55Yeah, legal is very important. You've got to get those releases. Yeah, for sure. Things we didn't know in the very beginning, but it is like very important to do that. For sure. attuned to those legal releases. There's also the management of just logistics and cash flow and making sure you have a runway to keep on going. What's your advice there to make sure you're in a good financial state? Well, I think, you know, so we have been looking at that very closely over the last six to eight months because, you know, we, for instance, we're doing very well on Amazon for many years and we just weren't really monitoring the advertising spend and the profitability as closely as we should be.

22:35And so that's something that, for instance, you know, we're really taking action. We've had great results as a result of actually, you know, really drilling down on these numbers. And then, you know, on our other channels like, you know, GDC channels like Shopify and retail, we have had to make some hard decisions. We have had to pull out of some great retailers because of, you know, cash flow concerns on staffing members at department stores and, you know, seeing the numbers of like how many people are even walking by, for instance, versus how much you're paying in a salary to have the person standing there to market your product.