How to Expand Your Brand Outside a Small Market

0:00We want to become more than just a product and really add value to our community by providing them with high quality educational content that we wish we had when we were growing up. Hello and welcome to Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and building a business. I'm Shuang Esther Shan. There's a subscription for almost everything, but our guest Fiona Parfrey and her friends didn't have a subscription for what they really needed month after month, and that's period products. After a little research, they were shocked to find out how many harmful chemicals are in pads and tampons. They decided to launch Riley, a brand making organic pure products that show up at your door every month.

0:43Fiona is joining us from her office in Ireland to talk about how the team scaled Riley by 12 times in the last year, how they secured key corporate clients and their upcoming expansion into Europe. Thanks for being here, Fiona. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited. Very excited to chat. I know you and your co-founders started Riley in 2021. And the whole premise is about subscriptions for organic period products that's more sustainable as well. Can you paint the picture for us? How was the Irish market reacting to subscriptions at that time? Yeah, great question. So we're coming up to two years live now with Riley.

1:26And I suppose the idea for the brand really came about from, you know, personal frustrations that myself and my co-founders experienced, which I'm happy to talk about later on. But I suppose, you know, it was mainly down to the fact that you can get so much on subscription, but a period is something that you get every month. And yet we always run out of these products. So having them delivered to your door conveniently, whereby you never need to worry about them, just made complete sense to us. When we launched the business, it was very clear that so many other women in Ireland wanted this offering as well.

2:02But as the business grew, definitely there was a little bit of hesitancy towards subscription here in Ireland. It's not as common as, say, the US or even the UK. And so there's definitely been an educational piece for us to just, I suppose, reassure customers that they're not locked into any contracts. You know, they can cancel at any time that they want. They're always in full control of their subscription. So really communicating that across to customers and ensuring that they understand was a key piece of the puzzle in helping us grow the business. The other side that you have to do a lot of customer education on is the spectrum of pure products.

2:42There's stuff that you can get at a drugstore or grocery store, then there's period underwear and menstrual cups. But Riley is dedicated to be offering organic tampons and pads. And that is something that you found through research was lacking in the market. So tell us about that personal frustration. Yeah, absolutely. I suppose when we came up with the idea for Riley, it really stemmed from the convenience element first and foremost of getting them delivered to our door when we needed them. But when myself and my co-founders started doing a deep dive into period care and the products that we've been using our whole lives, we were led down a very shocking discovery path in that we found out that the products we've been using our whole lives are manufactured in a way that we felt had completely unnecessary ingredients.

3:35so you know a lot of them are made from rayon which is a synthetic material and can be dipped in chlorine bleach and perfumes before we put them in our bodies for you know things like making them look whiter or smell nicer and it's essentially you know there's hormone disrupting chemicals in period care we read a 2020 study that proved that so we were really angry about this because it wasn't something that we had ever been told, that we had never known. And then I suppose we felt very compelled to do something about it. So yeah, we got to work. We did some research in the market and, you know, we really wanted to provide a solution to our customers that they were comfortable with using, but that also was better for our planet as well.

4:24And so there's amazing reusable options on the market that you mentioned, like period underwear and cups. But there is so many women still that are not comfortable with that kind of lifestyle change that is associated with using them. So we're trying to kind of bridge the gap between people who are used to using tampons and pads, but just manufacture them in a way that's much cleaner and better for our bodies and better for our planet. And this all started because you and your co-founders had a girls night together and you started talking and the light bulb moment happened. What made you want to go into business as friends?

5:03Because this is kind of counterintuitive to the typical advice you get. Yeah, it is. We were just sitting around one night drinking some wine. You know, I think all good ideas happen over a glass of wine. And it just kind of stemmed from there. And I think it was during the pandemic. And so we were all at a point in our lives where we were definitely open to a new challenge because it had been a rough couple of years with something new on the horizon excited us all. But when it was really when we discovered the shocking facts around mainstream period care that we knew we had to do something about it because we couldn't find a solution on the Irish market that suited what we were looking for.

5:45And so if we couldn't find the perfect brand, we just decided to create it. And you hear horror stories about friends going into business together and falling out. And that's something that we were very aware of from the get go. And we weren't naive to. So we had very honest and frank conversations about that from the very beginning and kind of set up the right processes and building trust as not just friends, but as colleagues and co-founders from the very beginning that has really helped us to end up working very efficiently together and still managed to maintain a friendship outside of work as well.

6:28Also, you guys had different backgrounds from different industries that complemented each other that really helped with the partnership. Yeah, yeah, that's right. I mean, I came from a digital marketing e-commerce background just prior to launching Riley. I was running another e-commerce Shopify business by myself, which was an outdoor lifestyle brand. So I had experience in starting a business and running a business and building a Shopify website before, which was really helpful to help us get Riley off the ground much quicker than I did, say, for my previous business. And then, yeah, Lauren has vast experience in tech sales and Anya has experience in PR and customer success.

7:10So combining those all together has really helped us. Now, that being said, we were very aware from the get go that there was gaps in our co-founding team and we weren't afraid to admit that, that we don't know it all and we don't have every area covered. So we took the steps to get people on board from the get go, really, to help us with things like finance and operations and, yeah, go from there. You know, before we were kind of at the point where we could employ people full time in-house. And from that first night where the idea sparked to launch, It actually only took you, Lauren and Anya, a few months.

7:50And part of that was because of your experience in the e-commerce space and building up that Shopify site. What were some of the tools or services or apps that helped you to get the store up and running? Yeah, great question. It's definitely just a testament to how user-friendly the Shopify platform is. You know, I had done it before with the previous store with absolutely no experience. and I'm definitely not a developer, you know, and then doing it the second time around with Riley was much, much faster. So, yeah, we've used various different plugins. So we use Recharge to manage our subscriptions within Shopify.

8:28We have Klaviyo as our CRM system, which has a really nice API connection with Shopify. And then, yeah, just, I suppose, various kind of apps to upsell and add on products or things for GDPR, which is obviously a very big consideration here in the EU. I find it fairly straightforward. And I really feel like it's Shopify has just become such an easy to use, foolproof platform that anyone could set up a website in a number of days or even hours, actually. Great to hear. So you had the store up and running, which is the channel side of things prepped. On the product side, you had to find a manufacturing partner that were able to create organic period products.

9:11How difficult was it to find a manufacturer that was able to create what you wanted? This was probably the hardest piece of the puzzle in getting the product to market, only because we were very particular about what we wanted and weren't willing to make sacrifices when it came to the quality of our product. So although we could find many, many manufacturers dotted throughout the world who could do what we wanted them to do, when it came to actually verifying that with, you know, certifications and verifying their claims in manufacturing, that became more difficult. And so we ended up partnering with a manufacturer based here in Europe.

9:52The reason being is twofold, I suppose. They have all the necessary health and safety certifications that were required and we were able to verify them with a third party. And secondly, because it was so close to home, it's really useful for us to be able to jump on a plane and visit our manufacturer and be on the ground there. not only witness their quality control and the way that they manufacture, but also build that relationship to have a really direct rapport with them when it comes to developing new products. So it took a bit of time to find the one that we wanted. But at the same time, you know, we did manage to go from ideation to launch within four months.

10:32So it wasn't as if we were years trying to find the right manufacturer. It was just a matter of like weeks or months, but a lot of work was put into it. How did you approach the product testing part to ensure that samples, iteration, all translates into the final product? Yeah, really good question. And it's quite difficult when it comes to product testing for something like this, because essentially you only have a couple of days a month where you can actually test out this product. And because there was only three of us, you're probably talking, you know, between 16 and 20 days a month that the product can actually to be tested out, which is far less when you compare to other products.

11:12So we did have to rope in family and friends to help us test the product and provide really unbiased feedback about what they liked and what they didn't like, and then just work closely with our manufacturer to ensure we managed to get what was very much a minimum viable product, but one that we were happy to launch. And from there, once we launched in April 2021, we didn't just settle with what we had. We have made constant iterations to the product quality, adding on new variations and absorbencies to our line as we grow. And even just things like tweaking the branding and the website UX, all of that, so that we're making constant improvements to our brand and our overall offering.

11:54So it's kind of one of those things that, yeah, we got it off the ground. That was great, but it's going to be a never ending part of our journey. How did you approach marketing? Because I think you're competing against something that is so habitual, where it's tough to educate the customer while trying to get them to change their consumption behaviors. So what kind of campaigns really spoke to your customers? Yeah, I think for us, you know, we knew from the get-go that a real focus on high-quality content marketing would be very important to us. we essentially are a female health brand and there's so many avenues of female health that are underserved making it a completely underrepresented area which is really sad and I think we believe it's high time that changes and so we want to become more than just a product and really add value to our community by providing them with high quality educational content that we wish we had when we were growing up.

12:58So that's a huge piece of, you know, our social media marketing or email marketing, even things like content on our blog and through our Shopify website and constantly providing fresh content there, but also partnering with experts who, you know, know better than we do on these topics and can, you know, can really add value and that we learn from. So, yeah, I suppose when we launched it was very much about creating that sense of community on social media and encouraging people to sign up to our email database early days so that we could start to build that community out and yet we kind of have taken it from there and really I suppose giving people access to the kind of behind the scenes of the journey as well and being really transparent about life in a startup you know I think it's clear that more and more people want to buy from people and want to have a face behind a brand.

13:54And so, you know, the very first day that we launched, we put up a TikTok where we told people what we were doing, took them behind the scenes. We were in my co-founder's garage at that point, packing boxes, listening to the little Shopify ping go off and going from there and just figuring it all out and really taking people along that journey with us, you know, going from that to growing the business, selling throughout Europe, hiring staff, having different offices throughout Ireland. And I think that's really something that people like to be a part of. Sounds like storytelling is a big part of your marketing strategy.

14:29And a portion of that is the educational content. How do you make that also entertaining and fun and something that people want to subscribe to? Yeah, and I think that's a really key point that you make because it's not easy to do both. And so we kind of when we're planning out our marketing calendar, we have different content buckets that we look to. And so, yeah, one of those buckets is the storytelling founder piece. The other one is the educational female health topics, whereby any content that we put out is has to be, you know, statistically correct and verified and accurate information and up to date information.

15:07And then there's having fun with it as well. So there is that kind of comical entertainment piece, making memes, you know, period jokes, whatever. And like people really like that because they see that we're a brand that are serious about our mission, but that doesn't take ourselves too seriously at the same time. And trying to find a balance to us has definitely been a learning curve as a brand, but something that we have experimented with and are definitely getting better with as we grow. So I suppose if you look at our Instagram, you'll see a nice mix of content there that definitely ties in together and has the same tone of voice throughout.

15:44out. But it kind of goes from having, you know, it could be quite serious information to having a bit of fun and being able to flip flop between the two because everybody likes something different from time to time. There's always new research and stories coming out surrounding female health. So how do you make sure to stay up to date while you're also running Riley? Look, I think when you start a business and you're really passionate about seeing it grow and expand and reaching as many people as possible and making genuine difference in people's lives, it doesn't really feel like work. So there's the admin and the day to day and, you know, the getting things done on the laptop.

16:27But in my spare time, I'm reading articles, I'm listening to podcasts, you know, on my commute to work. And it just becomes part of kind of who you are at the time. And it becomes, I suppose, something that's really enjoyable to learn more about because you care so much. So there's definitely, you know, a work-life balance, but at the same time, building a brand like this kind of starts to become a little bit part of your identity as well. And Riley has seen so much growth within the last year. You've grown by 12 times and I'm excited to dig in to what drove that scale up. I'm chatting with Fiona Parfrey, co-founder of Riley, and I hope you're enjoying our conversation.

17:10If you haven't already, please subscribe or follow Shopify Masters wherever you get your podcasts and leave us review or feedback for the show. Thank you. So Riley grew a lot faster than anticipated. You've 12X'd the company within the last year. What do you think drove a lot of the growth? So in 2021, when we launched, I mentioned earlier, it was very much with the minimum viable product. And we didn't hold back in getting something off the ground. I think we were very aware that if we tried to wait for the perfect product, it would never happen. So what we did was launch and then iterate constantly.

17:52And we spent the most part of 2021 talking to our early adopters and gathering customer feedback in all aspects. So, you know, when it came to our packaging, the product quality, the way it was offered and the way people could buy it, the experience on the website, the aftercare and taking their feedback on board. So not just listening, but really implementing that feedback. And so it was probably the best thing that we ever did. and although it is difficult because a lot of the time there's so many different opinions then coming at you and you ultimately do have to you know trust your gut then weigh up all the different feedback and trust your gut we're so glad that we took the time to implement that feedback because what we saw then was significant growth last year from all of the learnings and it's just that kind of process about engaging with our customers and making constant improvement in iterations as we grow is now just a part of the company and it will be something that we will always do.

18:54And from there, I think the only way to improve something is if you're measuring it, if you're willing to improve, if you're willing to adapt and change. And yeah, I think we can wholeheartedly say that we are and we have already. On the flip side of having really crazy rapid growth is then you have to figure out operationally, logistically, how do we meet that demand? So how did you approach getting more inventory, smoothing out logistics and making sure that you had the products to get to the customers? What I will say is like there was so many hiccups along the way, like within our first week of launching, we ran out of packaging.

19:36We didn't anticipate getting that many Shopify pings in our first week, which was a great problem to have but at the same time then you have to figure out how do we get more packaging how do we get this to customers um so quickly and at that time the three of us were there we were packing boxes what it meant as well is that we were growing so quickly that we ended up doing more of the like packing and operations and actually working on the business so we knew that that had to change and so we ended up outsourcing or logistics after a couple of months so we have two third-party logistics companies that we work with, one based here in Ireland and one in Europe.

20:10I was working with our manufacturer to optimize the way that the product is delivered to those 3PLs and getting them to our customer as quickly as possible that way. I suppose it's definitely like an investment as a small startup and takes time. But what it meant then is that the three of us had the time back to actually spend working on the business and growing the brand. So we're really glad we definitely spoke to a few people and looked for advice on it. And a lot of people felt like we were a little bit too early on to do that. But I think for us, it was probably the best kind of risky move that we've taken is sourcing that logistics as early as possible.

20:48But yeah, I think, you know, a supply chain, especially in today's current climate, is always going to be a challenge. And it's one that I suppose we just have to take head on and realize that life in a startup is just going to constantly be trying to solve problems and fight fires. But that's what makes it so exciting. Another exciting part, or also the contributing factor to the growth, is the key relationships with corporate clients. Tell us, how did you go about developing those relationships and bringing them on board to have Riley products in their corporate offices? Yeah, again, I think this stems down to our own beliefs and values.

21:30And essentially, when we looked at the period care market, it really was, I suppose, confusing to us why this is a normal bodily function and every single bathroom that we go into has toilet paper. Why aren't period products available for free for people to use?

21:54and like we want to create accessibility to our high quality products wherever whenever people need them so a part of that is making them available in places like your office your gym in a restaurant or a bar if you're at the cinema wherever that might be we started reaching out to people in our network who worked in these big companies and getting introductions from, you know, from others to some big companies and going from there. And yeah, like we, one of our very first clients that we signed on was Microsoft. Now we've got a whole range of kind of big corporate logos on our client book list from hospitality groups to universities to the likes of Accenture, PwC, Deloitte.

22:46And it's growing because when we're pitching to corporates like this and we explain it so simply, as I just did to you, they really do get it in fairness and like understand the initiative. And so it's really, really great to see so many employers introducing this as a perk in the workplace that's very, very simple, cost effective for them to provide, but that really makes a difference to their staff. I know that for me personally, whenever I go to a restaurant or an office and I see period products available in washrooms, it definitely makes me feel a little bit better and just feel like, ah, like they get it.

23:26So it's really great to hear. Yeah, that's it. We've had feedback from some employers that their staff has like one in particular last week that I spoke to said one employee said to her in a meeting that she really feels seen now just from having those period products in the bathroom, which is just such a nice bit of feedback to to get. So, yeah, you're definitely not alone in that kind of nice, warm feeling that you get when you see them being provided. And in some ways, Riley was also inspired by volunteer trips that you took personally. Can you tell us where did you go and why that experience really stuck with you?

24:06Yeah, so a huge part of what we do since the very first day that we launched was we decided that if we were going to be in business, yes, we wanted to have a commercially viable business. We wanted to grow a business and scale it across the world.

24:26With ultimately the goal, you know, hiring people and becoming profitable. But we know that we can do all of that while doing good along the way. And that's really important to us as a brand. So unfortunately, period poverty is a massive issue all around the world today. And so from the very first day that we launched, we have been donating a portion of every single sale to Fighting Period Poverty. You're referencing a trip that I took to Kenya in 2019. I was lucky enough the year before the pandemic to volunteer with Development Pimoja, which is an Irish registered charity based out in Kenya.

25:05And I was in really remote parts of Kenya, working with the staff there in development in Pamoja, doing, you know, home visits and school visits. And what I naively, I suppose, witnessed was that there was a lot of girls missing from school and a lot of them were at home. And when I asked the staff there, it was because the girls, you know, were on their period and didn't have any access to products. And so their maids stay at home. up to 65 % of Kenyan girls can miss school every month because of this issue. And that's just something that I was completely shocked by. And so we've been working with Development Pomoja since day one to provide them with period products so that they go around to schools, provide the students there with period products, but also we fund doctor led school visits to educate the students there about menstrual health, both the boys and the girls, because unfortunately it's still a massively taboo subject over in Kenya.

26:02So yeah we started doing that on the ground there and then we took it a little bit closer to home and we signed on a second partner that we work with called Positive Period Ireland which is a grassroots volunteer-led initiative here in Ireland. So we work with them to provide product to places like direct provision centres, domestic abuse shelters, even schools in areas that really really need the help. And then we've also just more recently taken on a third partner, which is Her Sport. So we fund, they're an Irish business here in Ireland that is, I suppose, they're really about trying to make young girls stay in sport.

26:41And unfortunately, there's a direct correlation between girls getting their period at the age of 12, 13 or 14 and then dropping out of sport. So we work with her sport to fund school visits, to open up the conversation about menstruation and figure out ways that we can encourage young girls to stay in sport. So we're doing all of this with our amazing partners, but at the same time, we're able to grow the business. And it's just incredibly rewarding to know that we're having such a positive impact on people's lives. It's very cool to hear that you're building a business model that has social impact built within it.

27:18So what kind of advice do you have for founders who wishes to build something similar to make sure that they too have a business model where it's profitable and also impactful? My advice would be pick something that you really care about and that you genuinely want to have that positive impact on because then you will be motivated to do so. There's so many examples of amazing businesses that are doing this. So, you know, read up about them, figure out the right model that works for your brand and start small, but build it up as you go, you know. And I think the main thing as well is just to test and learn if it's not working for you right away, there could be another solution that works.