How To Start a Business With No Money

0:00You gotta have that mindset of like this is a marathon. You know, like it's consistency. It's every day doing the work and some days are hard, but you just got to keep going. Hello and welcome to Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and building a business. I'm your host, Schwang Esther Shan. So there are many ways to fund your business, angel investor, crowdfunding, loans, the list goes on. and it could be hard to decide what is right for you and your brand. Vicky Pasha had the idea to create Dapper Boy, a body-inclusive, gender-neutral fashion brand, and she knew she needed money to fund her idea.

0:44So she turned to Kickstarter in 2015 to launch her company. Five years later, Vicky raised close to$300 ,000 using equity crowdfunding as well. Vicky, welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm so excited. So excited for this. Yeah, we are so excited to chat with you because Dapper Boy all came to be because of your personal need. And you had this idea, you wanted to find this community, and you turned to Kickstarter to help validate the idea and also fund the business. Why was that a good platform for you? Yeah, I think, you know, we didn't have any money at the time. And so we were looking at different ways to bootstrap the brand, you know, and I feel like Kickstarter was just a great place to start.

1:33We had heard about it, seen other companies successfully launched there. I remember reading a case study in particular and was, you know, taking all the tips and how to reach out to folks and get a Kickstarter really going. What do you think about Kickstarter as a platform now? What kind of founders should be looking into it to use this as a platform to build up their community and also get funding for their idea? Yeah, I think Kickstarter was a great place. And that's what it was, community. It was an awesome place to find folks that needed, you know, what we were offering. And so, you know, we had reached out to originally, you know, friends and families to share our Kickstarter page.

2:13But at that time, we also had just Kickstarter, you know, people on the platform finding us through there, you know, become supporters. And we still have, you know, customers to this day, you know, that participated in our very first Kickstarter campaign, which was our very first pair of gender neutral, slim straight jeans. Yeah. And I think because your business journey is a long one, you started off with this personal need. And oftentimes with Kickstarter, you have to share your story and basically illustrate why this product needed to exist. I guess for you personally, how did you begin to share your story on this platform?

2:54Yeah, I think it was just a vulnerable one, you know, like going back to my actual journey here. It's in 2010 is actually when I chopped off my hair and started being confident in myself and venturing over to the men's department, which was a very scary thing for me. I was afraid socially what people would think about, you know, a woman shopping over the men's department. But once I had the confidence to do that, it was everything for me. So, you know, when we went on Kickstarter, it really was just about connecting and relating to people. It was a problem that we were solving. And people that had the same problem were so excited that there was finally a solution.

3:33Mm-hmm. And a big part of that is also communicating your design ideas, illustrating the need for more inclusive clothing that is gender neutral to manufacturers that may still stick to that old school of thinking. So how did you even begin that hunt to look for the right production partners and also communicate with them to showcase, this is what I want you to create. Right. And I definitely did not have a fashion background whatsoever. It's funny because like, I think to this day, if you were to ask my friends from like back in high school and growing up, like, would Vicky ever start a fashion, you know, clothing brand?

4:14And they would laugh because, you know, shopping in the women's department for me, like most of my life was a tough experience. It was never competent. I just shopped whatever, you know, fit me, but I never enjoyed those clothes. so to start a fashion brand without any experience was interesting you know it's not just a simple google search for manufacturers and whoever we could find usually the question was like do you even know what you're talking about and we'd get a lot of hang-ups um until one finally we just didn't stop that's the thing is one manufacturer in particular finally emailed us back and was like i think you're on to something here i would love to connect you with our pattern maker

4:59and so Sharice you know my co-founder my wife and I what we did was we took a lot of notes on our favorite pair of both men's and women's jeans and there's a lot of you know differences you know at that time men's jeans really didn't have a ton of stretch you know 2015 wasn't a huge thing for that and then also women's jeans still to this day are just not functional You know, there's no, you know, I'm just curious what, you know, what pockets you have today and how far down, you know, can you go in your pockets? I was just going to say the pockets are decorative. I do not fit anything in my pockets.

5:37You know, that's so funny. That is the word I need to use. I'm going to steal that because it is. That's what it is. It's decorative. It's kind of ridiculous. And it shouldn't be revolutionary to have functional pockets, you know. And so, like, that was a huge selling point for us. And even, you know, there's that very tiny pocket. I think it was actually made for pocket watches long, long time ago. That's within your pocket there. People call it the coin pocket, the pocket watch pocket. But we actually made that functional too, like where you can fit a large smartphone. Finding the manufacturer that actually believed in us, set us up with their pattern maker.

6:13It took us six months, you know, to perfect this very first sample of jeans that we were ready to actually launch on Kickstarter. So it was a process, but, you know, we were ready to learn. Yeah, that's amazing. I love the fact that you said you were really studying both men and women's genes to take a note of what you like. So I feel like that's a good research tip for anyone thinking about changing any industry is take a look at what is already available and draw in some of the things that you like to create something new. Aside from that, what else did you do to educate yourself and get familiar and comfortable with talking about design, fabric quality and production and things like that?

7:01Yeah, again, it was a ton of research. And actually, this manufacturer was so helpful in showing us, you know, different brands and maybe the kinds of fabrics we'd want to use. It was, again, like a very immersed, you know, learning experience. I also think, you know, we did a lot of testing with friends and family members. Anybody we could, we were having them try on the jeans and what did they like or not like about it. And like showing us examples of jeans that they like. I know Cherise, you know, our co-founder, her brother is a jeans guy. And so he in particular was, I remember just showing me all these different high-end brand jeans and what he liked about them.

7:42And so it was really just being open and listening to feedback. And that's why it took so long. I mean, typically samples don't take six months. But in this process of making this like really brand new kind of product, it was worth it. It was worth to take the time and to really understand this, you know, industry that was new to us, you know, at that time. And I feel like so much of fashion is built around just a mannequin or like sample sizing. So you're really taking the time and going against the grain as well. I guess like outside of that, you did have experience in marketing and working in casinos and things of that sort.

8:24Wasn't experience in the fashion world. What else did you do to kind of embrace some of those industry knowledge as well? Yeah, everything I believe is marketing. Everything. That's how people relate. That's how people connect. And so with having that background and yes, not having the fashion knowledge, I knew my, you know, strong suit is connecting with people and just relating to people. And so I think that's what has helped us, you know, with this brand along the way is just that connection is speaking to again, the people with the problems. Like I remember our very first video that we made, it was actually showcasing the problem first.

9:03Like, do you ever have this problem? But relating on a way that's like, you know, we use humor in a lot of our content, but it's in this also vulnerable, relatable problem solving kind of way. And it just makes people like you and want to become your friend. And, you know, especially speaking to a problem that they need solved for themselves. So people were just like ready and they felt like they could trust us in trying us for the first time. And then it just really created this tribe of loyal, loyal customers, you know, throughout these years. I like that because I think a lot of people, when they think about fashion, they think, oh, I need to fit into this mold or industry standard to be more editorial.

9:46But you're speaking to it from this functional, practical, easy to understand kind of way where you are putting the problem at the forefront and giving people the solution. So love it so much. Thank you. And I think, you know, what I didn't mention here is the size inclusivity. And you kind of just touched on that, actually. And I wanted to tell a story here about that. We recently did a little test. We went to a mainstream retail store. I'm a plus size person. And so I go into this mainstream store and I'm at the top of the sizes there. You know, if I were to try on, I mean, there's usually never, I'm a 44 in Dapper Boy and 44 in men's like typical retail just don't fit me right at all.

10:34I could probably barely button up. It's not made for my curves. When it comes to button up shirts, I probably wear an XL. If I would go to double XL, it would be like hanging over my shoulders. Like there's literally still no place for me to fit in. And so by me going to a plus size men's section, which, you know, some of the styles there are not, you know, like the mainstream clothing that you see available. I'm actually the smallest size and it's like down to my knees. And like, there's still literally no place for me to shop. If I didn't have Dapper Boy, I would not be the person I am today, you know, as confident as I am and feeling like I truly fit into society and feel even like cool and confident.

11:14And so that's what we're able to do with our customers. And being able to be size inclusive, like and not having people have to shop another place because they're plus size is also, you know, huge for us. We really believe that the shopping experience should be based on style preference and body type, you know, not on gender and just a place where everyone can belong. Yeah, bringing that concept of inclusivity in all aspects and truly kind of having that pillar of value when you think about designing and also communicating why you're designing certain things as well. Would you say that kind of illustrating the purpose of your designs, the problem you're trying to solve, is that still something you hold true into most of your communication pieces or social media pieces as well?

12:05Always, always. That's what people are relating to the most. You know, again, it comes down to always being vulnerable and real. And people want real. I think that that's the age that we're in right now. It's not all perfection. I feel like people want to root for the underdog and feel like no matter how big we get, it's important to feel like we're still that small brand and that we are accessible. When you started, you were doing something completely new. You're asking manufacturers to do something they've never done before. And you're showcasing this product on a platform that most people didn't have the idea for.

12:45I guess, what would you say to founders who might feel intimidated that, I have an idea, but I feel like I don't know the industry. I don't know what to do. Like, what would you say to those who are listening in that position now? Yeah, I would say, you know, and this is kind of also a regret I have for myself, you know, openly here is like not connecting with folks sooner, feeling like you have to just figure it all out yourself and just, you know, prove yourself. But at the same time, there are so many resources out there that exist. And it's just like connecting early and often. That is my biggest piece of advice.

13:25Connect with folks who's in your industry that you can talk to that you can follow. What are they doing? How can you do it that's unique to you? You know, there's just so many resources available. You don't have to do it all yourself. yeah yeah and I think sometimes send that cold email like don't get deterred if you don't hear back from people just like you gotta keep on going LinkedIn is a huge resource too just connecting with folks you know and like also you know a great question to ask is like when you're starting a business or thinking about it like when it comes to fundraising you know I'm still in that now and you know what kind of fundraising do you need is it debt is this going to be a family business?

14:06Or do you want to scale this thing to be, you know, the next Levi's of non-binary fashion here? What's your end goal? And like, how do you look at that kind of like investment or capital strategy? That's a huge one too. I wanted to ask about, you had that excitement from Kickstarter and you were able to fund the production, start the brand. How do you bring that excitement and bring that community into other platforms and also have that loyal community as well? Yeah. So after our first Kickstarter campaign, I think our goal at that time was$18 ,000 for our first production. And at that time, again, I didn't realize all the other business expenses and marketing dollars, things like that.

14:52It was just literally for the production. And so when we had sold out of that quickly. We raised 26 ,000 from the 18 ,000 we had wanted to raise. We sold out of supplies quickly. We had to get crafty with like, what's our next step? Do we launch another Kickstarter campaign? Or how do we bring this on over to our own website? We decided to do that. And so that's where we found Shopify. And we launched kind of like that same pre-order model. So I remember the first product actually launched that wasn't jeans on the site was our first button down shirt. It had these secret snaps, you know, in between the buttons to prevent that dreaded chest gap that we all hate.

15:33My mom and my aunt actually sew on their own snaps for their dress shirts, like for decades now. So you're solving a problem they have. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I used to take safety pins and usually those with undoing, I get poked pretty good. But yeah, that was the first product that we brought on over to our Shopify store. And we didn't know how it was going to go down. So what we did was it was a three week campaign. We literally had a sample from a manufacturer. It was one color shirt.

16:12And we had our friends try on the shirt. We made these hilarious videos of us, like, you know, in the streets of San Diego here. And we just put out this content and people just got a kick out of it. But it's also relatable. And what we did was we put it out at it, what we called like a crowdfunding or intro price, you know, it was up to 30 % off. And we said it would only be for three weeks only. And that just went nuts. So imagine again, last year, we ran Kickstarter. A year went by, we didn't know what to do. We had no more capital. And so with this launch, we did$30 ,000 in three weeks.

16:55You know, and that was nuts to us, like gangbusters to us, because again, we had not had any capital at that time. And so these people were just now waiting for the next drop, the next drop. And we would slowly, you know, launch every single product. so and I think what was key was that FOMO you know that sense of urgency for customers they wanted to get in on it they knew they only had three weeks to get in at a special price or that we would sell out because we were only able to order you know the manufacturing minimum of like 300 products so it really worked for us it was all the hype we had those same you know kickstarter folks like help share the message so it was kind of like going viral at that time and it really worked.

17:37And at that time too, it was in an Amazon Prime delivery kind of world these days, a six to 12 week turnaround because mind you, we didn't start the production. We couldn't until we had the customers, the sales to be able to take the risk and invest in the production. And so it was never an ideal timeline, but at the same time, that's how we had to bootstrap and people were ready and waiting for every single campaign and willing to wait also for the production to be complete. I love hearing about the relationship you have with your customers over the years. It is such a special one, and I'm excited to get into it even more along with your fundraising journey.

18:18Before we get to that, I'd like to take a moment to thank our listeners for tuning into the show. Wherever you're listening now, please take a moment to subscribe to Shopify Masters, Share this episode with a friend. And you can always let us know what you thought about the episode by leaving us a review. Thank you so much. So we have to talk about this really cool stat, which is more than 50 % of your customers are returning customers. This is something that other founders would dream about. So tell us, how did you build such a loyal fan base? Right. Yeah. I think email accounts for 54 % of our sales.

19:01We use Klaviyo. It integrates within Shopify. So it's really awesome because we're able to segment all of our customers based on different events going on. You know, if they've shopped with us recently, what they've shopped for. I mean, it's incredible, you know, what we're able to, the information we're able to grab and, you know, how efficient we can be with our marketing efforts. So that's been huge. And then also we're using Meta, Facebook and Instagram as well. And we use a lot of our Shopify customers and create lookalike audiences as well. And that works. But again, like we are fundraising and looking to reach new customers and like, how can we speak to them, these different journeys that they're on, you know, thinking through every single customer persona that we have, you know, it could be someone from the LGBTQ community.

19:53Definitely. It could also be, you know, a straight cis male that has the same problem I do shopping in the men's department. It could be a straight cis woman that doesn't love the, you know, more form fitting styles from the women's department like there. are just different customer personas to think through. And like, what messaging do you want for each of them? What problem are you solving for each one of these customer journeys? And so it's exciting that we're able to start really diving into these very detailed customer journeys. And we'll just reach more new people. And hopefully also, they're going to be loyal customers of ours as well.

20:31Really speaking to people, the ways that they wanted to be communicated with. Also, when you're talking about you're still currently fundraising, you also went through equity crowdfunding and raised over$300 ,000. Talk to us why that was also really helpful for the runway of Dapper Boy. Definitely. That was over a period of the end of 2019, early 2020. It was$284 ,000 that we raised on StartEngine. And again, that was actually majority of those folks was over 500 people that were customers. And what's cool about equity crowdfunding is people are get, you know, they get to come in at a lower, you know, you could be an investor for with 200 bucks, you know, and it was just, it was a, an effort by all of us, you know, our customer base and us at the same time, just going out and reaching these folks to support the brand's mission.

21:29Amazing. And I feel like you're constantly sharing your journey and also inspiring the community about the sacrifices you've made to keep Dapper Boy going. Talk to us about some of the hard decisions you had to sustain the runway for the business as well. Definitely. So it's kind of wild because we were on this upward trend, like huge. Mind you, we started the business 2015. 2019, we did about, I think it was like 565 ,000 in sales that year. 2020, we did a million dollars. And that was, again, just Sharice, myself, and two part-time employees just bootstrapping this thing. Pre-order campaigns were never meant to be a long-term solution.

22:15We were fundraising at this time as well. And so we were on this high. But at the same time, as COVID was kind of dying down, the delays really started for us in 2022. And so when we were doing these pre-order campaigns and then products started being like majorly delayed for us. We were backed up in all these campaigns that customers, you know, participated in, were waiting on products for. And we could not ethically launch any new products, knowing that people were backed up in campaigns. And so we were just waiting it out. We had to get really crafty. We leaned out completely. We had to raise prices in order to just stay afloat because we were inventory, I mean, tight.

22:59Inventory was going fast. We heard it daily, like, you're sold out, you're sold out. It wasn't a problem. We had the customers there and waiting for us. The problem was getting the inventory here. So we hunkered down. And so in that time frame, there was so much going on. We were selling our home. We made that decision to do that. And I don't recommend that for everyone, of course. But at the same time, we were getting email after email, like these stories from customers. One was a mother, you know, and this wasn't during this time. This is a story that we remember and why we keep doing what we do.

23:37A mother had reached out to us saying that their 14 year old daughter was suicidal until she saw a Dapper Boy ad. She started smiling again. Like that is like major impact here. And so when we're talking about selling our house and we have equity sitting on the line, it was a no brainer to us. You know, we have a bigger mission here. It's not just about us anymore. Like this is a major social impact brand with a big mission. So, you know, if we're asking investors to invest, how could we not invest in ourselves?

24:15And so we made that decision. It was a hard one. And imagine, you know, my wife is Filipino also. And it's like, you know, we had bought our first home and like to have these conversations with folks and telling them what was really going on was a very hard, vulnerable thing. But it was everything we needed to like kind of let go and reset and like stay completely focused.

24:43oh my goodness for sure and the sacrifice the dedication this is definitely something that is unleveled and thank you so much for sharing that i think by you sharing your story right so many people are relating to that and also you know for the early founders like they know that sharing their story is just a part of building business and also relating to your community. But it's tough. It's tough to open up. It's tough to be vulnerable. I guess, what advice do you have for this kind of, you know, building in public, being open and honest with your community about just like not just always the positives, but also some of the hard stuff you have to do as well?

25:26Yeah, I think it's so important to be vulnerable and not in like, there is a tactic in doing that though. It's not like you can't be as much as we felt it some days and you just wanted to hide under a desk and cry. And there were those days. It's like still showing up as your best vulnerable self. Like you can't be negative. It's like you got to have that mindset of like this is a marathon. You know, like it's it's consistency. It's every day doing the work. And some days are hard, But you just got to keep going. If you believe in what you're doing here and you're passionate about it, like there's no doubt it'll happen for you.

26:07Just have to hunker down sometimes and keep going because out of the blue, you never know what's going to happen. And for us during that time, Shark Tank actually happened, which was crazy that we received a call from them and to actually go through that process and to go and film, you know, on the Shark Tank set. And at that time, too, I mean, the story is it just gets crazier here. But because we were fundraising and I was trying to connect with whoever I could at that time, there was a woman. Her name's Catherine Gray. And I had taken her course because, again, I was like feeling desperate at this time.

26:45And I took her course on six ways to fund your business. And I was like, OK, how can we fund right now, you know, quickly? And so I took her course and I had emailed her because I loved it. And then she started connecting me with folks. And this is what I'm saying earlier when you need to connect early and often. I wish I had done this sooner because now it was on the line and now I'm connecting, you know, but she had introduced me to our very first lead investor who signed off on our first big investment of, you know,$250 ,000 the morning that we filmed on Shark Tank. So our world was changing quickly.

27:19We had$100 to our name when we showed up to that set. my parents had paid for our deposit on our rental and we had to sell the house within three weeks. And so in order to like make our first like real rent payment there and it was all we were just going for it. There was no question. Charisse and I were just on the same page. And that was key to is having such a like on board partner. We were just doing it, just going through the motions and not stopping. And so it all really ended up working out for us in a crazy time. I was going to say, I don't think I could even write such a great dramatic turning point, but I know that you're still obviously figuring out the fundraising process and going through that.