How Two Founders Turned Curation Into a Competitive Edge

0:00We try to help people find a base foundational style, whether it's in fashion or in decor and furniture or design. I think the same thing holds for business. Hey everyone, welcome to Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and scaling a business. I'm your host, Serena Smith. Award-winning entrepreneurs and designers Byron and Dexter Peart have long been known for their impeccable eye, clear vision, and refined taste. We have a very clear idea of what kind of taste and curatorial effect we want to have in the market, and we stick to it. In 2019, they launched Goody, an online marketplace offering sustainable home goods and lifestyle products.

0:38that are as meaningful as they are beautiful. Our driving force behind everything we do always comes back down to people and design to the point where literally the first things we wrote down when we were building this business was good people, good design, good impact. And just this year, they've opened their very first goodie flagship store in Montreal. Byron and Dexter are here to share how they source with purpose, reduce returns through storytelling, and scale a mission-driven brand without compromising on values. Plus, what it's really like building a business with your twin. Welcome to the show.

1:07So happy to be here, Serena. Thanks, Serena. It's such a pleasure. It's a delight to connect with the two of you. Okay, so the two of you had a very successful and enduring career in fashion before you made this switch, working with acne and nudie jeans and you had a very chic leather goods line that I was just eyeing last night. What was it that made you feel like it was time for some kind of a transition in your lives? I love the question, Serena. And, you know, I think for us, I don't know if there's ever a good time to make a change in life, but opportunities present themselves. Bart and I had started out in our 20s, a company called Want.

1:54And to your point, worked with Acne Studios and Nudie and Philippa K and a variety of other brands. And then also we launched our own brand in our 30s. And we built an international business. We had a lot of fun. We worked with incredible people on our teams and around the globe. and I guess you kind of get to a place where you start seeing that you want to evolve as a business leader, as an entrepreneur. I think we felt really clear and solid in the voice that we had. I think the times had changed from what business and fashion looked like 10 or 15 years earlier. Barton and I have always been having conversations about quality, you know, things that matter, things that have purpose, things that last a long time.

2:39And in the fashion world, it started to become it felt like it was becoming less and less of a conversation that we wanted to have in that environment and we've had a passion for design art architecture and and kuri led us into the new direction which was probably a little bit less seasonal um more and something that was a forever conversation things that were conversations around products and ideas and stories about things that took time to make, but also lasted for a long time. And that felt like a better conversation to have in design and decor and furniture than it did potentially to have in fashion.

3:19I think it's like so fascinating that sort of internal journey of recognizing like it might be time to make a kind of scary and courageous, but potentially really wonderful jump. It's one thing to get to that place as one human being. It's another thing to get there as two humans. Like, did you get there together or was one of you sort of leading the charge initially? It's funny even to go back and reflect. We were working with all these other brands. We were running retail stores. And Dexter and I started finding ourselves getting more excited about designing our stores, more excited about the interiors products than we were about being in a meeting with Barneys and having conversations about like the next season's collection.

4:03So So I think it came natural because we both started to see, I'm like, we're having fun doing this. We're passionate about this. So to Dexter's point, I liked it. You have to kind of follow your gut a little bit as well, too. We both started feeling, even as twins, that not only our interests, but what we thought our potential to make change at an industry level was more likely going to end up in the home space, in a slower, quieter industry. It's changing as well, unfortunately. It's taking all of the probably the bad lessons of fashion and also being in cyclical seasons and markdowns and all the things we were trying to run away from in clothing.

4:43But for the most part, I think that we both got there together at the same time. And as we approach, even now, we just opened, as you mentioned in the intro, our new retail shop. We did that together. And it's the same thing. It's like now is our moment to get back in retail, getting closer to the customer, being able to tell more human stories and connected stories of how things are made and why they're made. And that's been an evolution. But we argue about a million other things that we don't are not on the same timeline about. But overall, the vision and where we should be putting our energy and attention, it's pretty much a straight alignment.

5:15You spoke to something that is, in the end, like so simple, though it might not be easy, which is just listen to what's lighting you up. You felt it and you honored it. Looking at other people, we have the fortune of being, yes, we're twins, but having a business partner that's in tune and intuitive to where you are. So it's listening to yourself, but also being really open to someone else, also seeing what they see in you. That could be from employees, that could be from a family member, a loved one, or your business partner. But being aware that, you know what, maybe it's time to make that shift or that change.

5:50Sometimes it's not only you who could be attuned to it, it might be others and just being open to other people helping guide you in that direction as well. There's obviously some overlap between the worlds of fashion and the world of decor and design, but you were essentially entering a different industry. Were there things that your background in fashion really helped you parlay into success in this new world? I would say absolutely, Serena. It's funny. We had a very successful retail concept in fashion. and somebody said to me, I was a customer client, walked out of the store and said, you know what I love the most about this store is that no matter what I purchase, I'm going to look great and no one's going to tell me that I don't look good.

6:32Like no matter what. And I think that that was something that I've kept with me was about A, listening to the customer, trying to make sure that when they're making investment in investment pieces, these are things that we still see people in our fashion world where they're still wearing the same acne blazer or Tomorrowland jacket from 10 or 15 years ago. So we were always having a conversation about essentials, staples, investment pieces. These are things that you're going to love. These are things that you're going to wear. And I think that that has been transferable as a concept and for a point of differentiation about how we've always run our business.

7:15And I think that with Goody, it's the same idea. is now as we enter into decor, and we might be showing you these fantastic makers that are doing beautiful work from, you know, parts of the world that are far away, but when that basket gets into your living room, it's going to look so much better than the already amazing photos that we've already taken within our space. And so as curators, I think that's been something that we've always considered part of who we are as our purpose and how we drive our business and how we see ourselves as entrepreneurs is let us assort and curate for you because we're doing it for you.

7:50And then we build on that confidence that you already have in your own design style and your own design language. That happened in fashion or in bags before. And I think that's a through line that went right through into Goody. Do you have any advice for how to develop that kind of curatorial eye? It's a great question. I would say for us, it's something that we noticed early on from a very, very young age. We've been, we're the people you talk about, like consummate entrepreneurs. We were selling T-shirts in junior school. Like we had our own brand with our own logos. We made up our own concoction of makeup and we're selling it in the schoolyard.

8:25We've always had not only product but branding and storytelling and taste making at our core. I don't know that it could necessarily be developed. I think it's one of those things that I wish I had musical skills. I really don't, Serena. And I think it's this, but I think if you do have an eye, I think it would be the same like cooking some people. It's about finding ways to hone that talent. And I do think a lot of times there are entrepreneurs who have their own vision. They have their own curatorial skills. They have their own taste. But they let others either subside that taste or evolve it because they think the market's demanding something else.

9:04but we have a very clear idea of what kind of taste and curatorial effect we want to have in the market and we stick to it we and we don't move in a direction because trends are saying to go in a different way or something like that we we've remained consistent that could be a positive or negative but in our focus it's something always being consistent is core to our identity and especially around that yeah i just want to add that i think trusting your gut and trying to find from within what you like that feels special. I think when you go to your favorite restaurant and there's something on the menu that really speaks to you or when you have your favorite shirt, those can be like foundational pieces.

9:46And then when we talk about essentials, and I think foundation is at its core of everything that we should be thinking about when we're trying to build confidence. So that staple pair of jeans that you feel really great in or that beautiful chair that you just made an investment piece in instead of buying something from, I won't say brand X, But that becomes something that's important foundationally for your table. And then once you start putting a setting on a beautiful table, even if that's a little quirky and it's something that you bought in Oaxaca in Mexico, it comes out to be who you are.

10:18And I think what we try to do is we try to help people find a base foundational style, whether it was in fashion or whether it's in decor and furniture or design. I think the same thing holds for business. It's like, where are you the strongest? And then add layers on top of that. And when you focus on where you're the strongest, it's easier to start pushing boundaries because you feel comfortable in what you know and what you feel good in. And I think design, fashion, business is all about confidence and feeling comfortable and then trying to figure out where your individual voice is because otherwise you sound like everyone else or you look like everyone else or your house looks like everyone else.

10:56And that's no fun. Mm-hmm. Right. And especially in this era when we're living through a time where we're all being so impacted by the algorithm. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Everything core, core, core, core. Everything core. It's almost a radical act to have your own point of view. I think something that you're also speaking to, which I think is really beautiful when it comes to developing an eye or having an eye, It seems to me like you're saying it's a little bit less about the intellect and it's more about a feeling. Yeah, I love that. You just kind of know it when you see it. Yeah. And so I want to ask a little bit more about that curation process for the two of you.

11:37Something that I love about your website is that per your philosophies, it is not loaded with a thousand products, right? It's a tight edit with products that are coming from all over the world. So can you talk to me a little bit about that inspiration and discovery and sourcing process? How are you finding these products and these makers? How are you connecting with them? Yeah, I'm going to start with, I loved it where you just were about the head and that other place. And to us, the other place is the heart. And it starts with people, Serena. And at the end of the day, our driving force behind everything we do always comes back down to people and design to the point where literally the first things we wrote down when we were building this business was good people, good design, good impact.

12:22In fact, the name Goody actually comes from that because we were like, what is this all about? And it was those three things. And everything we've done since then has followed that same principle. So they're more than guidelines. It becomes when we're sourcing a brand, are these good people? Are they good people who own the company? Are they taking care of good people in that local community that they're working with? are the people that they in their community or the the influencers that they were are they also you know values orientated and the like and then is the design something that we really feel is a design that not only encourages permanence but it's also interesting like we talk all the time about surprise and delight in in our office and we don't think that design should just be it can't just be good it has to have an emotional connection to you right like and that's something that usually comes from the story, the story of the people, how it's made.

13:18You could feel it. And sometimes, you know, you just pick up a product, a basket, and you could feel the humanity inside that. And you know that that's more than something that was crafted by machine. I think in the times that we're in right now, it feels more and more relevant. So when we're sourcing, we're looking for that. We're like, it's a bit of an it factor, but in another way, sometimes they're just small makers that don't have the ability to find a platform to get into North America and someone to help share their story. And they're so passionate about how they're working and doing their business.

13:47And what we wanted to do was build a platform that could highlight them. So it takes a lot of work because it's the discovery piece. Then it's a full assessment that we do with all of the makers. So, I mean, would it be easier to just find brands and have them upload their own photos and text? But we go and we meet the makers. We do an assessment. We find out the stories and the points of influence where that's going to matter to our customer. and then we take our own photos and we write our own original text on every single product. And to your point, you can't do that with 10 ,000 products where you may be with ChatGPT maybe now, but for us, we're doing it in a human way and it feels really, really interesting.

14:23And I think that's what connects to the end customer in the end. Dexter, do you want to add anything to that? He's always had something there. He always has something there. I just could sense the energy. No, no, I think it was in your question. I think, and even what you were building on before with the algorithm, you know, the crazy thing about the internet is that you can just populate it with all the stuff that you want. And so, Byron and I, we believe that people actually do want to make a better choice, but they just don't necessarily know how to. And so, if you put 10 ,000, 20 ,000, 30 ,000 products and you say, go at it, how would anyone even know where to get started?

14:55And how would they make a good choice? And how would they know a little bit more about these products? And so, I think it's kind of incumbent on us in this world of marketplaces for us to really help the customer with their buying patterns and buying decisions. Because if we can help them, they will ultimately make hopefully better choices. And if they make better choices, it's better for all the stakeholders that are in that conversation. And so part of it has to be us limiting it. We have to play a role in being editor. We have to play a role in being curator. And I think that's what the customer hopefully is looking for.

15:30Hopefully we're saving them time. Hopefully we're saving them making bad mistakes. Hopefully we're saving them returning products that were never really properly assessed in the first place. or people that were greenwashing. And those are things that are extremely important to the process. Well, and the proof is in the pudding, right? Because your return rate is like wildly lower than the average. Your return rate is four and a half percent, right? And according to some reports, at least like industry average is 17. That's a lot of daylight. Like, what do you credit that to? Is it the feeling that the investment that you're making in these makers and in the storytelling is then really translating to the customer understanding so that, you know, they're happy and they're not sending things back?

16:15I think what's been really exciting is that we suspect, and while it's always anecdotal, that people are taking a longer time to make the decision. And then once they've made the decision, they're confident with their decision. And if that's the case, we've done our work. And we're perfectly happy for people to be slow about their buying process and be intelligent and intentional about it. And then once they've made that decision, if we do everything right, Barnard was talking about surprise and delight with our end of our last mile delivery, that every aspect of that post-purchase journey, if we do a really good job, and then after that, we continue to help people through that life cycle, that what they bought that day is not the last time you're going to hear about us, then we keep building that kind of beautiful brand love and customer energy that we're really looking for.

17:11If you're on the site, every product has a code symbol. We have 11 causes that we've decided that these are the causes that we care about, and everything's been assigned causes. So to that point, through the customer journey, we want to put it front forward that, you know, this is made, this is providing support for female empowerment, or this is reducing carbon emissions. So that's part of the sales and the process, I guess. And that's important to us, that it's not just something that's left afterwards. And to Dexter's point, sometimes that might take a longer period in the funnel. But then when they've gone through it, they know that the product that they brought home has value.

17:52Value in every sense of the word. It cultivates a different kind of relationship and connection with it, where I think as the person purchasing it, you're less likely to just go like, ah, I'll send it back. It's like imbued with more meaning already the moment it hits your doorstep. Yeah, exactly. And we have a significant amount of our businesses gifting as well too. So even on that where you were just saying, Serena, when someone receives that as a gift, the likelihood of that having more meaning by the time that they get it and having more affection and connection to it is also extremely high.

18:26So people feel really good about coming to Goody to buy thoughtful gives because they know there's more there there are, which is exciting. I have to say also, as somebody who wants to make conscious ethical choices in the purchases that I make, I really appreciate that you guys are doing the research and taking the guesswork out of the process for us because I think so often you can be in a space, kind of to the point that you were making about greenwashing and other things, you can be in spaces that look like they're really functioning above board, but it's kind of incumbent, the onus is on you as the consumer to do all those added layers of research.

18:58And that can just be exhausting, you know? And so sometimes you're like, well, forget it. I'm just going to buy this vase and hope for the best, you know? Right. So I really, yeah, I really do appreciate that you are helping the consumer along. And clearly this thesis that you guys have had has paid off because your return rates are so low. It seems to me also like there's this other component of the process, which is not just that you're trying to cultivate a real connection with the consumer, but you're also cultivating these real connections with makers who are trying to do right in this world where that is an upstream battle.

19:31How has that changed the relationship that you feel like you have between you and the makers? What feedback have you gotten from them in terms of what it feels like they're getting out of the partnership between the two of you? Byron is the guy who spends more of his time deeply connected with our makers. And so I'm going to let him answer. But I will say, imagine in 2025, 2026, being a maker who also has to have a website, who also has to be best in class operationally, who also has to deal with DHL and tariffs and has to deal with delivering all around the globe, that if we're asking designers and makers and artisans to put their best work forward and to preserve crafts, all crafts all around the globe, if we can help create platforms that elevate their craft so that they don't have to focus on customer acquisition and paid marketing and all of these other bits, it's a very exciting thing for us to be part of that relationship.

20:38And I think that without having partners, and I think this idea of stakeholders, like a bunch of people working together to lift this boat is so much easier than asking people who put quality and function and beauty to do it all on their own. And so I think this is a community that needs to be fostered and it works at a community level. And that's how we see our makers and our customers as all playing a role in lifting that up. Yeah, he pretty much said what I would have said. So there's telepathy happening here. I think that I liked where you were about the thesis on the consumer. I think we started with two theses and it was kind of the two-sided marketplace idea.

21:25We had a very strong opinion and vision that there was a customer out there like you, Serena, who's trying to make smarter, more conscious decisions, probably started making them in the food that they eat, the car that they drive, the way that they travel or whatever, but maybe hadn't gone all the way there in fashion or home goods, for instance. But we felt that that customer existed in the millions, if not hundreds of millions. And the other one was that there were, because it was a question that we had early on, it was, are there enough makers out there like this? And we were like, are you kidding me?

21:56That was how it all started. But I think people see that as a much more disparate, unevolved space. And I think where Dexter was on the ecosystem, what we thought early on is if we could not only identify these makers, but bring them together with other makers that share their values, that you could really fuel a powerful group that, and I'm going to digress for one small second. And when we were in the fashion business working with Want Les Essentielles, we went to a buyer, I will never forget, at Barney's. And she said, you guys keep talking about sustainability, but if we talk about it with your brand, then we have to find a way to talk about it with all brands.

22:34And we're like, why wouldn't you want to talk about that with all brands? And so coming to Goody, the point was, okay, let's every maker that's on the site have this really strong commitment and values-orientated intention and mission. And then if you put them together with others, that makes them want to not only do better in their own work that they're doing, but it just makes them feel like they're in a proper home for them. And that's been very important for us. the relationship last point is that that's obviously the makers and founders but the artisans who make the products that end up on the platform they are so proud and when we go and we meet the makers to see their products presented in to the North American market beautiful photography gorgeous storytelling seeing themselves like put front and center is a really special thing and that is probably in some ways the most rewarding thing of what we do.

23:29So, yeah. I would imagine also that for these makers who are operating with intentionality and integrity, having a marketplace that is also broadcasting that, because that part can be so invisible, right? Yeah. Yeah. We have a partner from Denmark that's been around for over a hundred years and one of the most celebrated furniture brands. And they came to us and they literally said, we absolutely love what you're doing and we would love to be a part of your portfolio and offering because you guys are able to tell a story, our story potentially better than we could tell it ourselves. And that was really interesting for us because it does add a lot of value and they appreciate it because a lot of times most of their other retail vendors are not doing that or it's just not a high point of interest for them.

24:18I would imagine that in the beginning, it was a lot of the two of you going out into the universe and finding the makers and to some degree pitching them, to what extent has that shifted where now they're coming to you and saying, I want to be a part of this world? It's completely shifted. It's upside down shifted. Yeah. Yeah. We get a tremendous amount of inbound because we have on the platform, we have makers from every continent on the globe. It's over 42 countries, I think, at the moment right now. So it's a broad reach. I think the key thing, and back to your question earlier, it's important and incumbent on us to make sure that with that much inbound and that much opportunity is to remain true to what it is, the assortment the storytelling that we're trying to do.

24:57So there's a lot of passes, but then there's been some beautiful and some of the most successful brands that have come in that way. But we have a really great marketing and merchandising team that are constantly out sifting new things. When we're lucky, Dexter and I still get to have some influence there. But it's a team that works really, really hard at this discovery. We want that people come and that they find things that they wouldn't necessarily find somewhere else. So that there is a whole art and science to that as well. Yeah. And I think even just for the audience, I also think that what we assumed five years ago about what our audience and our clients and our customers would want has evolved.

25:38And we've been able to now pick up on trends that have been consistent across different territories, areas, markets. And so a lot of it is not just assuming that this is what you are going to put forward, and that's what people are going to buy. It's been a journey of us being able to shift and move to what our customer is telling us and reading those signals. A small case in point is that we didn't, gardening and everything sort of small spaces outdoors was not an area that was, This is what we're going after and we're going to build a large category here. But over time, probably comes a little bit out of the pandemic, probably comes out of a few other through lines or trend lines.

26:24But people started coming to us as a resource for tending to their garden. And this beautiful pair of Japanese cutting shares or a beautiful pot or pots in different sizes all nested together. These are things that started happening and we were reacting. in a lot of ways as much as we were being proactive. And I think that's what's beautiful because we're learning in real time just as much as our customers learning. And curiosity lives at the core of everything we do. And seeing that our customers are curious and they're like, you guys do this really well. You're curating this better than anyone.