My Journey From $10/Hr Line Cook to Running An 8-Figure Empire

21:39Ellen Bennett:Well, it's such a smart way to go about it and such a fascinating trajectory that your company has been on in that you are developing every new SKU, every new product from the perspective of, let's go to the people who are at the absolute top of their craft. We're going to develop it for them. And then that's going to trickle down to the everyday consumer. And so then the consumer has the safety and the security of knowing, well, I mean, you know, just Joseph Sentineau is using this, you know, Thomas Keller is using this knife. Surely it's good for me also. Evan Funke developed this bread knife.

22:17It must be epic, just like his focaccia, you know? Wow.

22:21Ellen Bennett:Evan Funke developed a bread knife. We really need a new bread knife at home. No, our bread knife is like sensational. He's like, it's a precision tool, Ellen. This is a surgical tool. Can you imagine Evan Funke like whispering this into my ear as we're talking about the bread knife? He's just like, you must make it perfect. I'm like, yes, chef. The bar is high. It's got to be exciting for you too, because it keeps you connected to the community from which you came. Yes. And I would imagine it also keeps them feeling really invested in the company and in the product line. I mean, I think a question that I had too is like, you could have very comfortably stayed in the echelon of servicing high-end restaurants and then, you know, expanding to the more mid-range restaurants.

23:07Ellen Bennett:I mean, the food industry in this country alone is massive. You can have a huge company based on that alone. But at some point, you had the wherewithal to say, okay, let's expand to direct-to-consumer and let's go to the everyday home cook. Was there any concern that it would dilute the brand given that you You had established it in the realm of this is for the highest end professional cook. Yeah. I love to be uncomfortable. We were, let's call it, we were comfortable in the restaurant world. We had our world. We had sort of tackled the brands we wanted to tackle. We were in the hotels we wanted to be in.

23:48And I just thought there's got to be more. Like there's more out there. If we're making the best gear for the best chefs and the best restaurants in the country, like we outfit 9000 plus restaurants in the U.S., why can't we take that to the home cook? Why should the mom at home or the dad or the griller or the like super passionate, nerdy home cook not have a high quality item that we're making? We deserve to be in that space. And it was right around COVID, if you remember, it was a flood of kitchen companies coming into the world and everything was like pink and cream and beautiful. And then you got the product and it just didn't quite hit like you wanted it to.

24:27And I was like, that's not cool. And also, why the hell are we not doing that? Like, it had already been manifesting in our heads and in our future. We were like, we are more than an apron company. But we needed to believe in ourselves and believe that our audience would come along to this next thing. And that Headley Manic could make a good knife, not just a good apron. So we leaped. It took time. It took resources. It took so much energy and effort because also it was COVID. So the supply chain world was a disaster. But we did it. We leaped out the window like I leaped out to start the aprons.

25:04And I was like, we're doing this. We got to do it. And we made an amazing freaking knife. It's not as expensive as everyone else's knives out there that are high end, but it's Japanese steel. But we did it in a way that an everyday person can have a chef's knife designed by Josiah Citrin of Malise in Santa Monica. And that it is the quality that Joseph approves of. It's the thinness of Nancy Silverton's team saying this is a good knife or that, you know, Suzanne Goins' entire team is behind that knife. Like there's all these people that helped along the way saying, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And it's beautiful because that makes me feel confident when I talk about our knife.

25:42Ellen Bennett:What proportion of your overall revenue now do the kitchen tools account for? So knives are 10 percent and they've been out for two plus years. Kitchen tools launched this year and that's rapidly growing, but we can't keep them in stock. So it would probably be higher than it is right now. They're amazing. And you could basically take your entire kitchen tool drawer, dump it out, replace it with ours, and you wouldn't need other products. That's how we thought about it. It's like everything you need, nothing you don't. If you want to get some tchotchkes, that's on you. But the core essentials for your kitchen, that's where you come to us.

26:19We're not trying to sell you every gadget under the sun when it starts. We're trying to sell you the things you absolutely need to be a great cook.

26:24Ellen Bennett:Your product development process is so interesting because you were, as we're talking about, you were entrenched in the community that could really help you iterate on this in a really meaningful way. Is that advice that you would give to other founders out there who are trying to launch something of quality? Like try to go find the people who really know the most about what it means for this thing to work at the highest level and try to pick their brains? Yeah. There's so many ways to do something, but I would say, hell yes. Think about it. Gwyneth Paltrow is an excellent example of she went to all these different dermatologists, scientists, people that are brilliant and the thought leaders in their industry.

27:08And that's how she's developed amazing skincare. Like you look at the best brands out there. Bobby, the formula brand, they went and developed it with doctors, right? So you go to the people that are the experts and you say, hey, I don't have all the answers. I want to fix this problem for you. What do you need and want and what do you hate? How can we fix it? That is how you come up with a great product because you're actually fixing a problem for someone. You're asking them, what is your need? What is your want? What's not working? We'll make it for you. and then obviously good branding good quality materials don't make a shitty product no one's going to come back for it but like it's just not that complicated when you break it down like that also don't spend more than you make you know reinvest every penny back into the company early on like these were like little nuggets i had floating in my head when i started hedley and bennett and it really was maybe a slower path but it was a strong foundation of a path how

28:07Ellen Bennett:How long were you developing Hedley and Bennett? And by, I mean, like actually executing on it, making aprons before you decided, okay, I got to go all in on this. I was working at Providence for about another year and a half before I had to quit because I just kept trimming down my days at the restaurant until I was only working like two days a week. I had an office and I had one part-time employee and I would leave on Friday at two and I'd say, I have to go to the restaurant and clock in. I'll see you on Monday. And I would put on my chef coat and go to the restaurant and then I'd work the weekend.

28:44So it was a crazy juggle, but I also felt like it was my connection to the industry and I felt afraid of letting that go. So there was a come to Jesus moment that I had where I was like, okay, I either got to go all the way or I can't keep juggling the two. So I went and talked to Simarusti and I was like, The time has come. I think I need to just do this. And he's like, you're going to crush it. Like, go. And he gave me, like, in his own way, his blessing and his, like, you know, go get it done.

29:18Ellen Bennett:His nod of approval. Yeah. This is the Providence chef that we're talking about. Yes, this is the Providence chef. And by the way, like, his entire team, every single person in that restaurant wears Headley and Bennett aprons now. And we're working on getting them work shirts and chef coats. And so it's just this beautiful thing where he said, go get it done. And the minute I did that, the company exploded. But I had to have that leap of faith. And I think every business owner is going to have those leaps of faith along the way. I still have leaps of faith moments where I don't know the outcome.

29:52But not choosing an outcome is choosing an outcome. You have to actually go and make the decision. Even if it's the wrong decision, then you fix it from there and you keep going. But if you aren't doing anything, then nothing is happening. Life is going to happen around you. And so I've always felt this need and urge to just keep the ball going, even if it's scary. Because at least you're moving the ball. You're creating your effect. It's not life affecting you. You're, like, affecting life.

30:22Ellen Bennett:I think it's abundantly clear within 30 seconds of listening to you speak. Like, you are just bleeding with passion and energy and chutzpah. and by your own admission, like you have this comfort with being uncomfortable, but that's not something that comes naturally to the vast majority of people. Did that sense of resilience and like go get it tiger attitude, was that innate? Had you always had that? Well, I was raised by a single mom, right? My parents got divorced super early on and that definitely helped. and it helped through trial by fire, not because it was like, woo, this is so easy. It was just like, I was thrust into life in a different way pretty early on.

31:09And I thought instead of becoming a victim of this situation, like how can I get something out of this? Like, what can I learn from this? And so I would help my mom with her bills. Like I would write the checks. I wasn't paying the checks, but I was writing the checks and mailing the checks. And I started grocery shopping and doing things that were out of my comfort zone, but it was fun to learn it. And she was so supportive of me just helping her that she just was like, yeah, OK. It didn't make me think it was weird. Therefore, we both were just like, yep, Ellen's doing that. Ellen handles the finances.

31:42I was like 13. You know, that those are the things, little moments in time where someone believes in you and doesn't get in your own way and doesn't say, no, you can't do that. And it impacted me for the rest of my life. Like, I totally think I'm an entrepreneur because of my mother. And I have thanked her many times and it like makes me emotional to say it out loud. But I'm like, thank you for getting a divorce. Because if that hadn't happened, I don't know that I'd be the entrepreneur that I am today because I saw her resilience. And I was like, if you can do this, I can do anything because you got us this far.

32:18Ellen Bennett:It is such a beautiful reframe on things. It's something that you could look at as a source of trauma and pain, but you're looking at it through the lens of how it empowered you and allowed you to build the life that you have. And I have to say, I wanted to bring this up because you've been really instrumental in my life and career as well. Your book was one of the major catalysts that got me to finally start my own talk show a few years ago. and I remember we were texting and it's really, you know, it can be really hard to maintain motivation once you're in something. Right. And also like we're living in this world where it's hard not to be fickle about things.

33:02Ellen Bennett:Right. You can feel really passionate about something. And then six months later, you're like, you feel like you're a little bit over it. And you know, I think I was struggling with like, there was elements when you're an entrepreneur or when you're running your own show or whatever, there's elements that you don't want to do that you have to do to be able to do the stuff that you want to do. Right. And I remember you saying to me, like, when you're feeling it, like, I want you to finish this because you will say it better than I can. But like, it's not, I have to do this. I get to do this. I get to do this.

33:32Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah. I think it's, it's a perspective shift. It's just like when life is really hard and you're like, what is happening? It's happening to me. It's all going down in flames, you're like, hold on. I live in the U.S. I have so much more opportunity than a lot of places in the world. I am healthy. I have a head on my shoulders, my hands and arms work, and I get to wake up every day and try again. I get to do this. It's just like a shift of, I actually have a lot to be happy about. And if you can like put your energy towards that and recognize it, then you kind of just are willing to keep going because you reframe it.

34:14You're not like, oh, the world is ending. It's actually like, no, you hit a bump. And guess what? You and everyone else in life also hits bumps and it sucks, but it's part of the journey. So instead of like resisting, it's embrace it, like embrace that that happens and live to fight another day.

34:34Ellen Bennett:I can't tell you how many times I've called on that perspective shift and how it works. Yeah. You know, we all start to sweat the small stuff. Totally. And it's such an important perspective shift because invariably we've all been through something harder. Yeah. You know, and it's just a great reminder of like, it's not that serious. Yeah. It's going to be fine. And also this thing that I'm now in and maybe griping about was the thing that I dreamt of being able to do once upon a time. Yeah. You know? That's right. Exactly. You get to do this. Like I have two little kids. They're the loves of my life.

35:09And there are times where I'm ready to throw myself out my one story window. Right. I'm like, oh, I'm exhausted. But then I step back and I'm like, oh, my God, I get to do this. These are my little humans. And then I'm like, all right, get back in there. Like, go battle it out for dinner. And it's OK. It's OK to feel bad. It is OK to feel sh**ty. This idea that Instagram or the world makes us think like everything needs to be peachy keen or something is wrong is a lie. We are okay to feel not good. It is okay to have emotions go up and down. And you got to feel them, embrace them, and then move through it and get to the next emotion, which is maybe you're really sad and then you get angry.

35:53But angry is better than sad because in angry, you're going to do something about it. You're motivated. You're motivated. And then your anger turns into enthusiasm because now you're like, shit, I'm figuring out the thing. And the next thing you know, you're like, I did it. Right? There's like emotions to life and it's okay to feel emotions. So I don't get mad when I'm mad. I'm just like, okay, this is what I'm feeling right now. Let's get through it. And tomorrow I'm going to feel differently and keep going. Nothing is stagnant in life.

36:23Ellen Bennett:I don't get mad when I'm mad. I'll be thinking about that one for a little while. Park that one in your pocket. Have you burnt out? Oh, I've totally had moments of like, oh my God. Yes, absolutely. And how do you combat it? I don't know. Burnt out feels like you're crisp, you're done. You're like a fried pan and there's nothing you can do about it. I think we are very capable. Human beings are capable of really hard things. And we have been. Not just this life, but look at our past. Like we've gotten through some dark, dark times. and the way I approach it is like, okay, I need to shift something in my world.

37:02And if I can shift it, I feel more in a causative state. Like I'm like causing an outcome, not just like receiving the effects of life. And it shifts me from like burnt out feeling to I'm doing something about it. If I feel like I'm doing something about it, then there's change. And as long as there's change, you can get somewhere better. Just get out of the paralysis. Yeah. That to me feels like the ultimate state of burnout. But when you're willing to look at it differently and say, I'm going to find a way out of this. What can I do? What can I shift? What can I do tomorrow that's slightly different?

37:38Just a tweak. Like if you're sitting in a room full of papers and they're all flying around you and you don't know what to do and you're just like, I'm confused. Grab one paper and start making a stack. And you grab another paper. And next thing you know, there's not 5 ,000 papers flying around. You've got like four nice stacks in front of you and they're more, you know, you can look at them and deal with each stack. Fix one little thing. Okay, I'm exhausted. I'm overwhelmed. Okay, go swimming. Okay, cool. All right, I feel a little better. All right, what can I do now? Okay, I can pick up the phone.

38:05I can make a to-do list and I can talk through this with my, you know, business partner. Okay, cool. All right, now I'm going to talk, you know, then you're like, you're not just like frozen. Do the next right thing. Yeah. And the next right thing might be the wrong thing. Who cares? At least you did something to get out of your nothingness state.

38:23Ellen Bennett:H &B is 13 years old now. Yeah. Incredibly. Yeah. How do you think your identity has shifted? Your identity has shifted from like the early scrappy days to now being at the helm of this massive business and going from the person doing all the things to then leading all these people and now doing it with two kids in tow. Total transformation. Many metamorphosis. Yeah. A lot of butterfly moments of changing, which have been really difficult along the way. Going from being a full-time entrepreneur where my entire world was working like so many hours a week, like 80 hours a week to having a child is like the ultimate shift.

39:10And not just for a woman, but for a man too, like my husband. is also a parent and he's gone through his own transformation on, you're just like, the whole world doesn't revolve around you anymore. It actually revolves around your children. And so you have to think about things very differently. I feel like it has made me a lot more grounded and anchored into what matters and how do I prioritize my time and my energy. And the word balance sucks because nothing is balanced in life, but it's just like, now I compartmentalize my efforts and my energy. And when I'm working, I'm working. When I'm with my kids, I'm with my kids.

39:44I'm not trying to do both things at once. That's when I like really break down. If you're trying to do a Zoom call with your small child right here, you're just like, this is not going to happen. I remember I was on the phone pitching a major opportunity to the container store. And I had my nine-month-old with me because my nanny hadn't made it that day. and he was screaming bloody murder. And I'm like mid-pitch on a Zoom call on my phone because I had to go on a walk because he would not sit still at home. So I'm like on a walk, pushing the stroller, pitching the container store with like seven people on the call.

40:21And he's screaming in the background. And I was crumbling inside thinking like, how did we get here? And then I was like, you know what? He's an amazing human being and he's my kid. And my head of sales is on the line and she's going to take this. And I was like, I'm putting myself on pause. You guys have this. Go. And they wrapped the call and they did the thing and it all worked out. But I had to let go so that other people could handle things. And that's part of the journey change is other people need to help. And there's a lot of great people out there. But don't let go of the vision. You can bring everyone in and their mother.

40:57but make sure that the vision is still nice and tight because vision means seeing something that others can't see yet. And that's kind of the craziest part of being an entrepreneur. You like imagine it in your head and then you see it come to life but you had to believe it up here before you saw it out there. And then everyone else is like, oh my God, what a great, amazing company that Hadley and Bennett is. But back in the day, it was just like me and my Mini Cooper working at Providence, you know, different times. So don't lose that vision.

41:28Ellen Bennett:Since we're back in the beginning times, a signature question that we like to ask to end us off. Can you name something that you did in those first six months of Hedley and Bennett being in existence that you feel like had a really lasting impact on the success and trajectory of the company? It's funny. Having the obsession and connection to our community from day one is something that the company has never stopped doing. And if you look at how we do collaborations, it comes from the roots of me sitting with Joseph Centeno and saying, what do you need? What do you want? What do you hate? What's not working in an apron?

42:06That's how we did face masks in COVID. That's how we developed Crocs with Crocs. Like, that's how we made Vans Shoes be the Vans amazing collab that was like four years running, was one of their best collabs ever. Like, we created all these things because we really listened, truly listened to our community and collaborated on a deep level and never thought we have all the answers.

42:28Ellen Bennett:Community is such a buzzword these days. Such a buzzword. But back in the day, nobody talked about it. To me, a community was just a friend. Right. It was like, you're a real person and I'm a real person and you might need something that I make. But if you don't need it today, that's okay. When you need it, you come to us for aprons. You built it among the chefs in the B2B because you were a part of that community and you were having those conversations one-on-one. How did you build that community in the D2C space? I mean, in the D2C space, it became scaling that digitally, right? It was like finding ways to be present through Instagram, through TikTok to this day, which is wild and crazy.

43:07And maybe some people on my team think it's nuts, but like I will write letters to our B2B audience that go out to, you know, hundreds of thousands of people as if I'm sending it to you. I'm like, hi, I wanted to tell you I just went to this amazing thing and here's all the things I learned from it. And then I get responses and then I respond back. So it's like scaled closeness.

43:31Ellen Bennett:You know, it's like I am writing the letter. I'm handing it off to my social team and to my digital team and to our outsourced agencies and all this like layers of layers of layers that push out the message but then it comes back and it's still just me and I reply and then I loop in my sales team and I'm like I love that you know that happened that's so cool and they give me experiences like people write paragraphs back to me and then they're like and by the way I need some aprons connect me with whoever and I'm like thank you for sharing that. Also looping in Tina, she's got this for you. And that to me is like a way of having the touch points, but then it's still allowing the team to do their thing.

44:14And then on social, it's like I'm constantly going to restaurants and I'm meeting with chefs. I'm meeting with Sean Brock. Still. Still to this day. But also then our team is taking it and pumping it out through all of our channels, through our almost a million followers on TikTok, or hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram, or I have a platform on Instagram as well. So I have followers that follow me to see the journey through Ellen's eyes. So yeah, you can still be human and scale. Just like don't lose your humanity when you scale. And you got to maintain that personal touch. I really think you do, or else you're just like a cog in the wheel.

44:50You're just like a, you know, just another company out there. You can't buy the love, but you got to maintain the love, right? And as you scale, you want to keep that humanity and that special something. Because we've all seen it. Brands get sold and then you're like, oh, those burgers aren't what they used to be. And that's the beginning of the end for that company. I don't want that to happen to us. I don't think it's going to.

45:16Ellen Bennett:Thank you. You're a delight. Thank you for being here. I'm so glad you're a personal touchpoint in my life. Thank you for having me. And also, shout out to Shopify. You know, our entire company functions off of Shopify. And they've been with us since day one. We were a tiny little user and now we're a bigger user. But we started with one order. Yeah. And now we have so many more orders and we've sold millions of aprons through them. So I feel grateful for all of the people in the businesses that have scaled with us. Thank you for that plug. And thanks to all of you for tuning in. Please like and subscribe and drop us a comment below.

45:53Ellen Bennett:Let us know what gets you off the couch. and be sure to tune in every week. We constantly have new episodes dropping. Till then, we'll see you next time.