Sell Out Your First Batch in 30 Minutes by Building an Audience With No Product to Sell

0:00People are freaking out over this product and will literally come meet me in the most inconvenient places to get it. Before Kendall Kransdorf ever had the perfect product, packaging, or even manufacturing figured out, she launched on social media. I can, with very limited time and resources, post a video on social media and share what I'm thinking for my new packaging and get really quick feedback from customers. Next thing she knew, hundreds of people began rooting for Cotto, her flavorful whipped cottage cheese dip packed with protein. When she was finally ready to put her first batch up for sale on Shopify, it sold out in just 30 minutes.

0:36Hi, I'm your host, Serena Smith, and welcome to Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and building a business. Kendall, thanks so much for being here today. Thank you so much for having me, Serena. So happy to be here. I am so happy to have you. This is really exciting because we don't often get founders so early in their process, although I feel like founder years are like dog years. It probably feels significantly longer to you. But true. Just how fresh into the Cotto lifecycle are you? I am very fresh. So yes, to your point, probably one of the earliest stage founders you might have had on the podcast, but I'm a couple months in only.

1:16So I launched on social media in August, late August. I started selling in mid-October and since then have been running all around New York City with my cooler backpack, distributing our dips to customers who find me primarily through social media, purchase through Shopify, and then meet me all over New York to pick up their dips. I can't wait to dig into that because it's like so fun and so DIY and it's such a great way to also glean customer insights like directly from the source. But I want to go back to the beginning, the few months ago beginning. Was the cottage cheese obsession already underway on social when you had your light bulb moment?

1:59Yes. So it was. I actually, I started making these dips really because of a personal health journey that I went through. I had to go on a very restricted diet, was super limited in what I could eat. And because of that, I kind of took to social media to get inspiration of ways that I could recreate my favorite foods in a way that was better for me and supported my health. And one of the things I saw was these cottage cheese creations where people were using cottage cheese as an ingredient to make foods creamy and more delicious, but in a way that's really high protein and good for you. And so I was really making them for myself, my family, and my friends, always knowing kind of eventually that I wanted to start a business in the better for you food space, but not really connecting the dots that that was the idea until I kind of realized this was all over social media and people were obsessing over it.

2:53But there was no one that was offering it in a grocery store in a way that was pre-made, easy to incorporate into your diet and really flavorful and fun. You were at Boston Consulting Group and then you went and worked for another food startup. Your career was well and underway. BCG is certainly nothing to scoff at. What steps did you take to determine whether this idea was worth you leaving the path that you were already on? Yes. And it's funny you bring that up because I think I've had to use a lot of what I learned at BCG, but at the same time kind of shy away from some of the overly analytical pieces of it because there's never going to be the perfect sign to go ahead and do this.

3:39At some point, you kind of have to trust your gut, which is antithetical to some of the BCG ways. But I think starting my career at BCG really gave me that foundation of how to make decisions, how to analyze data and use it to grow your business. And I think I was doing that for a long time for really large businesses in an advisory fashion. And so I wanted from there to really jump into the operational side and see what it takes to make a decision and actually live through the consequences of it. And so that was why I went to another startup. I was there as their director of product. So working with an in-house food scientist to develop and launch new product flavors and formats.

4:20So really saw through the life cycle of what it takes to launch a product while I was there. And while I was there is when I had this idea for Cotto at the time, not really seeing it as a full-on product that I was going to launch, but starting to put the pieces together. And I think I actually was surprised when I looked around that no one was doing this yet because it felt so perfectly timed with the excitement about high protein, people wanting cleaner ingredients and better for you options, that I really said to myself, if I don't do it, someone else will, and I need to jump on this. And so kind of having all of those tailwinds of these trends gave me the final push to actually go for it and make it a real product.

5:05You, I reckon, do not have a food scientist hiding in your kitchen. No, I do not. It is me who has done all of the recipe development and R &D. Of course, I have to consult with people to make sure all the food safety and scientific elements that are beyond my pay grade are in order. But really, the inspiration came from I love to cook and I love to be in my kitchen. And so I had to channel that, but in a much more structured way, which was different for me. You can't just eyeball and measure with your heart anymore. I had to start tracking things on Excel spreadsheets and whatnot. But now I'm able to kind of channel that love for cooking into creating these recipes.

5:48And they're purely developed by me. So it's really all the more rewarding to get really positive feedback from people on the product and hear how much they love it. And I've had some people to say that they've tried to recreate it on their own, and it's just not the same, which, of course, makes me secretly a little bit happy that it's not that easy to recreate. Of course, yes, that's some proofing for you, for sure. Some protection. Yes. You in the early days, at least now you're in a commercial kitchen. But in the early days, you were just sort of mixing and whipping things up in your own personal kitchen in New York City.

6:24Can you talk to me about that iteration process? And was there a moment where you thought, okay, Eureka, I've got it? Yes. And honestly, it came even earlier than I expected. I was just messing around. I mean, as I said, I had been making these on my own really for myself, but in a way where I was like, hmm, this random flavor combination sounds good today. Let's try it. But then I started to narrow in on, okay, the first one that I really feel like I nailed was the French onion dip. And I grew up eating the, you mix the Lipton soup mix with the sour cream. And that was something that was at family gatherings.

6:58And so I had that in the back of my mind as kind of, this is the nostalgic dip I want this to taste like. And I did a couple iterations of it and I tasted it and I was like, whoa, this really tastes like a French onion dip that I grew up with. And I was shocked by how much it did so early on. And then of course I go immediately to my fiance and have him try it too, just to make sure I'm not overly confident in my own abilities. But he was also shocked by how good it was. Of course, I've made many tweaks from there and I'm collecting a ton of feedback as I give the product to customers and have them try it.

7:32But really, the recipe hasn't changed all that much. So I think it came a lot earlier than I was expecting, which was fun. You are working with a product that on its face seems simple enough, right? You're sort of reimagining cottage cheese into a dip format, but you're dealing with dairy, which has to be refrigerated and cottage cheese. Sometimes when you get it, it's got that like separation on top, right? You also as a non-negotiable are using clean ingredients, right? What are some of the hurdles and lessons learned that you maybe didn't anticipate going into this dealing with those elements?

8:15Yeah, I think you touch on a couple great points. I think the first one being the shelf life of the product. Of course, it's a refrigerated dairy-based product, which means as soon as you make the product, you really have a timer on it and you have to get the product out of my hands into a customer's hands. And so because of that, that really was the impetus for rolling out the pickup model as I did because I didn't want to make all of this product that I think is great but don't have anyone that's ready and willing to buy it and just have product on my hands. And so that's why I started building on social media an audience who was excited about this product, ready to buy this product, even before I had a product that I was able to sell to them so that by the time I figured out all of my formulation and was ready to go and start selling it to them, they were there and ready and excited to buy the product.

9:07So I think that's one of the ways I've worked around the shelf life component in the short term. And then in the longer term, it's always going to be a challenge, but just really trying to get creative with how I can extend it in tiny ways that add up in the long run, but are still really natural and clean because ultimately I made this product because I was struggling with health issues. So that is, to your point, a non-negotiable. For me, that it needs to meet that standard and needs to be something I feel really confident putting in my own body, but also telling other people that they can eat and will feel really good eating it.

9:42That's something I really need to stand by. And then to your second point on the separation, that's something that I've definitely been dealing with. I mean, I think it's something that people with a yogurt or a cottage cheese, you tend to expect actually that there's a little bit of liquid at the top. You give it a mix and it's not a huge deal. But in a dip, you don't typically see that. So there is that kind of difference in customer expectation. When you open a hummus, you don't expect to see separation. So that's something I'm actually working through right now. There's a couple natural creative solutions to reduce the separation, but you'll never fully get rid of it unless you use gums or things that I don't want to put in my product.

10:22So instead, I'm taking the approach of how do I actually prime customers so that they expect that when they open it. They can give it a little mix and it's not a big deal. So that's something I'm working to convey through the packaging so that that becomes the expectation and you're not surprised to find that when you open the product. Isn't it amazing the things that can actually become the like very granular details that become these elements of fascination to your brain? Like when you graduated from college, were you like, I am going to spend hours of my day thinking about the separation in a cottage cheese product, you know?

10:57No, absolutely not. I mean, I think you hit on a good point that there are so many small details that you have to figure out even in just a day. And I will stay up late at night thinking about these things. And I'm like, this is so niche. I never would have expected myself to spend so much time on these things. I mean, to that end, you know, you're very early on in the process right now. And I think something that we see over and over again is that in those early phases, also you have the benefit of youth on your side, right? That you are sort of endlessly energized because you're so passionate about what's going on and you can go really full throttle.

11:33But if you're not careful, one day you wake up and you're burnt out, right? So you had the experience in corporate and also in the like pretty high octane, fast moving world of startups. are you doing things right now to help protect your energy so that you can stay in this for the long haul? Yes. And I mean, it's hard. It's easier said than done. I think especially now, I was working crazy hours when I was in corporate, but I was not energized in the same way by what I was doing. And so it felt a lot more draining. Now I feel like there are weeks where I am truly, really nonstop, but I'm still waking up the next day very excited about what I'm doing.

12:12And so that's a huge difference. But at the same time, I do have to remember that you need to protect your energy because what makes this work is the fact that I can show up in person with customers on social media at pop-ups and events with the most energy in my truest form. And if I'm drained, this whole thing doesn't work. And so finding small ways to protect that, like carving out time to be with my friends or be with my family and really take a break. It's, again, easier said than done because your brain is always thinking about this. It's truly, I mean, I don't have any kids, but I feel like it's similar to having a child where it's like you are pouring everything you have into this.

12:52So it's hard to just shut it off, but trying as much as I can to carve out time to do things that energize me. For me, I'm someone who loves to work out. And so I try and do that as the first thing I do every day, just so I have that hour or even sometimes a half hour of protected time where I know that I am locked into what I'm doing physically and it helps shut down some of the noise in my brain. So I think those are a couple of ways that I try and carve out the space, but it's hard. I won't lie. It's hard. It just like, it fills like every tiny nook and cranny of your brain. You started posting on social before you had a product ready to sell.

13:35Is it just sort of like your inherent Gen Z-ness that gave you the indication that that was a good idea? And what kind of videos were you making at the time? Yeah, it's a good question. So, I mean, I was, before I even jumped into this, watching a lot of founders, especially young founders, Gen Z-type personalities, doing this and building their brands in public. And I think it was something that I kind of knew I probably would want to do, but I'm not someone who posts a ton on my personal social media. So it was definitely out of my element. But I think when I took a step back and thought about it strategically, there was very clear reason why this was a good idea for me.

14:15I think first and foremost, to what I mentioned earlier with the kind of timing of a refrigerated limited shelf life product, I needed customers ready before I had a product. and social media is a way that I could build up that audience. And then secondly, I think it's an instantaneous feedback loop. So brands will pay lots of money to have focus groups and people come in and give them opinions. I can, with very limited time and resources, post a video on social media and share, for example, what I'm thinking for my new packaging before I actually commit to an order and get really quick feedback from customers.

14:51And then I think third, the opportunity to build up a community of people who are invested in your journey is so valuable. I really think I have people now who are champions of the brand and I can't be everywhere at once. So to know that there's people that are meeting me and picking up the product and then taking it to their gathering of friends or their Thanksgiving table and having 15 more people try the product and ask about it and they can actually share my story for me, that is so valuable. So I think as a new brand with limited resources, it's such a smart decision to do so. Of course, it comes with the flip side of you are sharing everything to the public.

15:33And if you make mistakes, which inevitably will happen, you have an audience that's also watching that. But I think the pros truly outweigh the cons. And so it was almost obvious to me that I had to do this as a small brand just starting out with limited resources. And do you know what? I feel like in terms of this building in public peace, which seems to be so incredibly powerful for founders, sometimes actually sharing the mistakes can be really valuable and actually help build loyalty because people want to know that they're engaging with a real human being and we're all messy and we all screw up, right?

16:08Have there been mistakes along the way that you have shared with your audience? A hundred percent. No, I mean, I think I gave the example of packaging, but I basically created a very early version of my packaging just to start getting the product out there. It was a sticker that went on top of the lid, nothing super official. I made it in Canva, asked a couple people for feedback, and then kind of got it out there. But I realized after handing it to customers and getting more feedback in person, it definitely wasn't doing the product justice. And so I've now pivoted to a new packaging design and in that process was able to share, hey, I think this was way too small.

16:48This font is tiny and you can't read it. And so coming forward with, okay, this was version one and there was definitely mistakes. This wasn't the best version of it, but it allowed me to get the product out there quickly. And now I got all of your amazing feedback and can incorporate it into version two that's better and improved. And I'm sure I'll find mistakes in version two also, but I think just getting it out there and kind of showing like, hey, this didn't work and I'm going to change it. People really appreciate that transparency and honesty. And I think a lot of times they'd rather see that than a brand who has everything perfectly together and you only see the final product because it doesn't feel as relatable or as human.

17:28And at the end of the day, I think we're all human. Everyone makes mistakes. So coming forward and sharing that really builds trust. 100%. I think also something that you're speaking to the packaging component is like figuring out what to put on your label when invariably as a founder, you're deeply immersed in it. You know, a thousand details about it. There are probably a hundred things that you want to share, figuring out what's worth including and what isn't worth including and how big a way to broadcast it. And all those particularities can have such a huge impact on your ability to move the product.

18:05What do you feel like in that first iteration you maybe didn't get quite right and how has it changed? Yeah, it's a great point. I think there's some stat that you have three seconds to convince a consumer in a store to buy your product. So it is very important that you communicate the main attributes and why they should buy it very clearly and very quickly. And I think in the first version, I had a protein call out on there, but it was very small. It was kind of fading into the background. And so in the next version, I've made that bigger and much more clear. And I'm actually thinking about now even the next iteration potentially making it a different color so it stands out more.

18:46And then I think one other really big piece of this is how to communicate what the product is. This is something that is kind of a new category within a category. There's not really cottage cheese-based dips on the shelf. And so trying to figure out how do I communicate what this is to the consumer, and And especially what I'm still working through is people will try my product who don't like cottage cheese and still love it. And so not wanting to scare away or isolate the people who maybe are scared of cottage cheese and still have them be willing to try it while also attracting the person who is obsessive over cottage cheese and will totally be drawn in by a cottage cheese-based product.

19:30And so I think I almost went too far in one direction where I was like, let's only have cottage cheese on the side and the people who care will figure it out. But now I'm actually pivoting back toward, I think, cottage cheese. I mean, you can't find it on the shelves anywhere. Clearly, it has a big fan base. And so I think at least in this early stage, I want to communicate really clearly on the front of the package that this is something made with cottage cheese. It's high protein, it's clean ingredients, and it's a better for you version of the yummy flavors you grew up eating. So trying to get all of those things across is difficult in a simple way.

20:06Wow. And fascinating. You were really signaling to the consumer that this was a cottage cheese product. Then you thought, maybe I move away from this slightly and now you've come back. Yes. I've already in such a short time done a bit of a 180 on it. But I think what I've realized, and I've had conversations with people in the industry too, who were like, there's enough people who want cottage cheese and are excited by this. Don't worry about the people who don't like cottage cheese right now. And maybe one day I'll pivot it back when the product has broader reach. But for right now, I think people who are coming to me are obsessed with cottage cheese, are eating it in many different ways daily, and are excited about a product that is using cottage cheese.

20:49So my thought is, and maybe I'll change my mind on this, but that it should be front and center. Yeah. I mean, I think there's a really significant argument to be made in CPG, Food and Bev, but in so many walks of life that this notion that going broad and shallow is the way can often be less powerful than just going narrow and deep. Lock into your niche these people who have like a cultish obsession. And because those are the people that are going to be like your evangelists, right? Out in the world. Yes, exactly. And so I think just leaning into that is so powerful. You're never going to make a product that is for everyone.

21:26And if you try to do that, I really believe you're making a product that's for no one. So knowing who your consumer is deeply and understanding what gets them excited is so valuable. Okay. Speaking of knowing your consumer deeply, you're doing these super fun park drops. Can you tell me about that distribution model and how it's been going? Yes, it is madness to say the least. I am basically running around New York with my cooler backpack or my rolling cooler, depending on how large the pickup is, all the time to meet customers in common spaces in New York City, which has allowed me to move really quickly and get product into the hands of my consumers.

22:11And I think the reason that I'm doing that really is because once you go into retail, which my product primarily will be sold in a retail setting, you lose that direct touch point with the customer. So right now I get to meet every single person face to face. I can ask them how they found me, why they were interested, what made them purchase. And then on the follow-up, once they try the product, I can get their really honest feedback. And I get a chance to say to everyone, hey, you're not doing me any favors by sugarcoating this feedback, I can still change things. So please tell me the honest truth now.

22:46And I think easier said than done. It's hard to say that to someone's face, but I follow up with everyone with the survey and try and capture that really honest feedback because then I can fix things and adapt before I commit to a ton of inventory with a manufacturer. So getting that touch point with consumers now and obsessing over what makes them come to me to buy my product, especially in a cold park in New York, is so valuable. What kind of feedback have you gotten that surprised you? That's a good question. I've gotten, honestly, I've been grateful that I have had really positive feedback overall.

23:21I think some of the things that have surprised me, I mean, I think what we were talking about earlier with the water separation, I think that's one thing that I did learn through customer feedback is like, hey, I noticed there's some separation here and people might not expect that in a dip. So that's one thing that's been super valuable. And then I think, honestly, I've been shocked by just how passionate people have been about the product. I see people will pick it up from me. And while I'm still sitting there in the park waiting for other people to pick it up, will text me like, I just dove into it and it's amazing.

23:53I'm so excited. And then I'll also see people will film taste test videos of them trying the product live and posted on their own social media, which to me is the most gratifying thing to watch that people are willing to kind of put themselves out there and share this product on their personal pages is amazing and truly shocks me every time. Over cottage cheese. Yes. I love it. You know, there's an upside to immediate in-person feedback, right? In that you get it and it's straight from the person's mouth and you can ask follow-ups for clarity. And then there's this downside in that it can sometimes skew your understanding of your product, right?

24:38You might get a piece of advice or a piece of feedback from one person or two people, and then you start thinking, oh, should I pivot in this direction? And I think sometimes that can take people away from their core product offering. It can skew your results a little bit when you've got a small customer base to start with. So do you have a product or a process rather for assessing how to take that feedback in without sending you in a bunch of different directions? Yes. It's hard because especially as a founder, these things resonate with you. And when you get a piece of feedback that maybe is slightly negative or it's something that you should fix about the product, it's easy to over anchor on that and be like, oh my gosh, this one person said this thing.

25:23Should I go change the recipe immediately. But I really try to be diligent about not acting in the moment and actually taking a step back. I collect all of the feedback and really try and look at the data from that's where I put my BCG hat on and look with the analytical lens and try and distill, okay, what's an outlier versus what is a common theme. So if there's things that are coming up consistently about one of the flavors of say, maybe there's too much garlic or whatever the comment is, am I seeing that multiple times in a way that is a real pattern? Or is that one person that maybe doesn't love garlic?

25:58And that's okay. It's not going to be exactly right for them. But on the average, most people feel like this is the right level of garlic. So trying to understand what's an outlier has been really important and making sure that you don't, even though you can spin on those one-off comments, making sure that I don't just implement them because they're top of mind or fresh, but rather because it's truly a theme and something that I need to implement. You mentioned that making the move into retailers is next. Are you having conversations with retailers right now? And what's your philosophy on brick and mortar expansion?