The Design Principles That Helped This Brand Grow—And Save Lives

0:00Can you meet the customer where they are versus expecting the customer to meet you where you want to design for. Hi, I'm Shuang Esther Shan, and welcome to Shopify Masters, your companion for starting and building a business. Good design can save lives. That's the thinking behind Thousand, a company that makes stylish, durable bike helmets and other biking accessories. Founder Gloria Huang started the company after she lost a friend to a biking accident. From then on, she made it the company's goal to save a thousand lives through protective wear. Gloria is here today to tell us how the company achieved that goal last year through smart design and customer feedback.

0:42Welcome to the show, Gloria. Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, so I know Thousand started from actually a personal tragedy and it helped to define the mission for the company. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how it's influenced the company to grow and also expand? My story and how we started was I was a longtime biker, never wore a helmet, if I'm honest, just because I kind of thought they were goofy looking. But a friend and a mentor of mine did pass away from a bike accident. He was riding around New York, wasn't wearing a bike helmet and passed away on impact. And after that incident, I knew I just needed to be safe.

1:20So I went out to a store to try to find a helmet. At the time, I didn't find anything I really liked. You know, I found a bunch of options I thought were passable, but nothing I really wanted to wear. So I think I didn't buy anything at the time. I think I just stopped riding my bike so much because, you know, I wasn't like a hardcore 50 a mile a day rider. I was a commuter. I rode to work or I rode to the beach on the weekends. And my background is more in philanthropy. I worked for Tom's before this in their giving department. And my thought was, if you can make a helmet people actually want to wear, you can help save lives.

1:49And beyond that, you can connect people to their cities. I was really interested in urban mobility and getting out of your car and all that stuff. And when I read the statistics, the number one reason people didn't ride a bike or a scooter or skateboard or anywhere they were going was they didn't feel safe. So that's where the mission of Thousand really started. And that's part of our name, too. So Thousand's name came from really wanting to help save a thousand lives every year. Such an amazing founding foundation. I want to drill in a little bit on that first shopping experience that started everything.

2:24What was missing in the market that you actually wished helmets had at that time? Yeah, I think from when I was shopping in the market, everything I saw in helmets was really geared towards probably the enthusiast rider. Or probably it was made for like a retail buyer in mind. They had really sci-fi designs so it could be super really highly ventilated. They had the Bluetooth, all the latest tech gizmo. And if I'm honest, I really didn't care about that stuff. I wanted something that was convenient, something I could take in and out of my office really easily because I worked at a corporate job.

2:55I wanted something that was stylish, so it matched my personal style. And I wanted something that was a little bit more sustainable. When I looked out on the market, I wouldn't say anyone was making things for that customer. Because, again, I think the market really, really was more about the enthusiast, hardcore customer. So from my perspective, it was just trying to find and make a product that was driven by consumer insights. And to your earlier comment, none of it looked like it would fit into your outfit. Like as someone who commutes, all of the hardcore kind of mountain bike looking helmets don't really fit with what you need it to do for the rest of the day as well.

3:32Yeah, exactly. Like when it comes to safety products, there's probably a disconnect between, you know, safety products and the joy of riding. You know, people pick to commute or ride recreationally because they just, they love biking. They think it's really fun. And there's a disconnect with just maybe the way safety products look. And I think there's a way to, you know, you don't have to hide them and you don't have to make them less functional, but there's a way to elevate style so you're proud to wear products. And I think it's this focus on understanding what the consumer wants versus potentially what a retail buyer may be asking for.

4:04Of course, you're doing a lot of research to see what was out there in the market. What were some of your learnings that you implemented into the design of the helmet? I had an insight that maybe the consumer wasn't so interested in all of the latest tech or super high innovation or, you know, shaving an ounce off of their helmet weights. My perspective was people may be more brass tacks like me. So when I started, I really started with the consumer. I think I sent out 50 surveys to my friends and family that I knew, you know, biked or skateboard or anything like that and asked them what they wanted a product.

4:40And that's really what the responses came back with. When I saw the responses, people really cared about safety, convenience and price point, something that was attainable as a price point. So that's really what thousands design DNA and philosophy started to send around. Can we make things that are safe? Can we make things that are stylish? Can we make things that are really convenient for folks? and I would say we've tried to follow that in every kind of step of the process. So when we think about style, can we make really high quality colors, materials, finishes? When we think about convenience, if you look at all of our helmets today, they have something called a pop lock in them.

5:13So you can pop out your bike lock or you can pop out this little lock in our helmet and you can throw your bike lock, throw it and lock it up to your bike. And if it's ever stolen, replace it for free. And, you know, we've got magnetic buckles, all that stuff. So all of these little touch points, I think one, it adds to quality, But honestly, it's just a little more convenient. These little interaction points you design for customers, they make everything a little more convenient, a little more simple for people to use. That was the whole intention. Like, how do we design really around those principles?

5:39And those are consumers. That's what consumers are really seeing. That's their pain point. Yeah. And like, to use a rather tech term is you really focus on the UX, the user experience of it all, especially mentioning the part where you can easily lock the helmet as well. And I think the surveys are so smart, right? Like so many people talk about you need to do market research before you start designing and start production. And that's what you did with family and friends. Talk to us a little bit more about incorporating customer feedback that might have surprised you or things you didn't anticipate in your initial design that you later learned through that process.

6:20Yeah, I would say in this whole journey, I potentially want to start a thousand with like really neutral colorways, for example, or really, really like for me, I really love like vintage moto and I love like neutral. I like wear black and gray all the time. But I think one thing I found was like our customers, when we launched, we're really hoping to express their personal style at a thousand. Like that was a big kind of fundamental point. They were picking us over other brands because they felt like the products we were making fit their personality better. So I think that's one thing we started really leaning into as a brand.

6:55Right now, like I would say all of our products, there's some element of customization that we offer. Like whether it's colors, whether it's monograms, whether it's stickers, whether it's something. It's all centered around this idea of how can products help you express your personal style better. So after all the research, iterating and testing, tell us what makes a thousand helmet different. Tell us about all of the features. I'd say for us, again, going back to those core tenets of like style and convenience. For us, style meant really high quality colors, materials and finishes. So if you look over our helmets right now, you'll just notice like the quality instantly.

7:31Like if you touch our helmets, if you feel our helmets, any of that stuff. A couple of things that we do is like we have really high quality colors that we change out seasonal, but it's not just the colors. It's like the paint. Like some of our helmets have like 12 coats of paint, which our factories don't love. But again, it's one of those points that like you can tell like kind of the brilliance of the color on those points. for you know convenience we have our pop lock that feature where it's anti-theft and you can lock up your helmet and leave it our our locks are magnetic or our straps are magnetic so it's really easy it's a no pinch system you can take on and off really easily we've got you know fit systems and we also have just like MIPS technology in some of our products so for us it's really been designing around again those tenets of safety style and convenience and I'd say like in terms of those little features that you want.

8:20My perspective is more often than not is to really advocate for them. Again, that's what differentiates your products. So for example, these are such small details, but like the rivets in our helmet are like one millimeter less than standard, just because like, you know, we thought they were a little bit too big, that the standard rivets were a little bit too big. So we got like one millimeter less stuff. Like even when we do colors, We'll sample like 10 different versions of a similar color to kind of settle on the final one we want. The strap material, stuff like that. We go through like 10, 20 rounds of different manufacturers and materials before we settle on the ones we do.

8:59And my perspective is like the factory won't love it in the short term, but long term, like the products stick around because people love them. So it is just that high quality attention to detail to make sure like all of these little points. the customer, I believe, does notice. So I wouldn't say we give up a lot, especially when it comes to design. I would say we push pretty hard at it. But I think we also know too, like there are also versions of things. So we have 2.0 versions of many of our products that we've worked on over the years through customer feedbacks when we want to make kind of big design iteration changes.

9:34But my perspective is always get close as you can to the first round iteration and then always continuously approve for second and third rounds. Love it. And I know that you also got your family involved in the designing process. I understand your dad designed a part of the helmet as well. Tell us more about that. Yeah. Well, the design team really was just me and an industrial designer I hired at the very beginning named John Larkin, who was great. But when we had ideas for innovation, when we had ideas to make this pop-up concept that no one had done before, we didn't have the money for an engineer.

10:12My dad, thankfully, happened to be a former NASA engineer. So useful. I know. I lucked out. So he happened to be a former NASA engineer. So he would sit with me on these manufacturing calls to kind of figure out the best way to design this thing and get it to market. So it was very convenient. But at the time, you know, I was introducing this older Chinese guy to these factories who they thought was this professional engineer, but it was, you know, just my dad. But again, super lucky that I had someone who was just really technical to help me with some of the finer points when we first started.

10:44Yeah. And I think like speaking to those manufacturing calls, I think one, a lot of our listeners have a hard time finding the right production partners. And two, when you're going through that process of iterating, it's hard to speak up for the design choices and not feel intimidated to ask for different iterations. What is your tip there for finding a good partner and nurturing that relationship over the years? Yeah, I'd say a manufacturing partner really is a relationship. It's not as oppositional as folks might think. They think, you know, they're negotiating, combating with their manufacturing partner.

11:22My perspective is it works best when it really is a partnership. So things that make sense in a partnership, especially when you're really small, I would say finding a manufacturer that actually wants to work with you is probably the biggest thing. If you find the biggest and baddest manufacturer in the world, it doesn't mean they're going to prioritize you in their production. It doesn't mean they're going to give you good pricing. It doesn't mean they're going to be flexible for payment terms or MOQs or anything like that. It just means you found one of the best. But potentially, if you find someone that's midsize or a little bit smaller and it's willing to work and grow with you, it's probably a better place to start because at the end of the day, lots of issues always come up in first-round manufacturing and production.

12:03So finding someone who's in it with you from a partnership perspective, I think is the best thing to do. And I would say in terms of how to advocate for yourself and your products, manufacturing partners are really useful. The good ones are really technical. They know how to make best in class products, but they don't, doesn't necessarily mean they know your customer or your market or your vision at the end of the day. So being able to speak on behalf of your customer is really important. At the end of the day, there's always a compromise. There's always a marriage of how you two meet together, but no one will ever advocate for your customers as much as you do.

12:37So I think that's probably important for all folks getting started in manufacturing now. Of course, you're making a very important product that is all about safety. Talk to us about the testing process and how you went about meeting those safety guidelines. Yeah, and I'd say that's really important. Again, it's important to have really technical people at the start in this industry. So really in helmets, for example, everything is down to the millimeters and how you design it. So making sure there's a clearance ever where you need to be able to exceed. It's CPSC and CE testing standards. You can also pass something called ASTM for skateboard helmets, stuff like that.

13:15So it's from the very beginning, designing something that will exceed all of the standards. And then in the process, making sure you're really tight on compliance and then quality control, all of that good stuff. So making sure you're keeping all of the certificates updated, making sure you're doing internal patch testing on every single PO to make sure quality is always there. I would say for any industry, making sure your products are not only quality, but safe to the consumer is like the number one thing to do. Yeah. And using those like safety guidelines as a benchmark to your point, like surpassing that is so important as well.

13:52I think what's really beautiful about the design is it really appeals to both men and women. Talk to us about the demographics of your customers and how you're trying to make the biking community more inclusive through the design as well. Yeah, I think that was another point at Thousand. If you look at the majority of bike companies out there, a lot of them cater towards probably the existing rider. The existing rider is probably a little older, definitely leans more male, potentially more white than, let's say, a clothing or apparel brand. And our perspective was, how do you always bring people under the tent?

14:29So I think we always design with inclusivity in mind. Fun fact, even our sizing designs with women in mind a little bit more. Usually the small size range is kind of the woman size range. but it doesn't fit a lot of women's heads, so they have the size up to a large or a medium, so it looks a little bigger on their head. Our size range really takes into account different head shapes and genders in mind, so the fit is a little bit better. Beyond that, though, we've always tried to keep things pretty neutral from a color and a gender perspective. At the end of the day, we want more writers writing with us, so we always design with, I would say, everyone in mind.

15:07And our demographics really show that. Like, I think our demographics are, we're like, I think 55 % women, 45 % men. And again, there's non-binary in there too. But, and again, kind of race, gender, age, all of those different things are really fairly even among our customers, which for me is really exciting. Because I guess for us, the goal at Thousand Two, it's not just to invite people who are currently wearing helmets or currently bikers, but the goal is at the end of the day, can you get people to wear helmets for the first time? And a lot of that is, can you meet the customer where they are versus expecting the customer to meet you where you want to design for?

15:43So that's always been a really important tenet at Thousand. And we're going to talk more about growing the market for bike helmets in just a minute. I'm chatting with Gloria Huang, founder of Thousand. I'd like to take a moment to thank all of you for tuning in to today's episode. Subscribe to Shopify Masters if you haven't already. and leave us a comment. Thank you so much. Part of the mission of Saving a Thousand Lives is getting helmets into enough people's hands. How do you actually grow the company and the market at the same time? When we started Thousand, gosh, we started probably selling products back in 2015, 2016.

16:27And back then, I would say everyone was very D2C focused. Like D2C was kind of the rage. which only being a D2C only brand was like, you know, the big thing. But I'd say from the beginning, we had a different perspective, which was, again, we were a very customer focused brand. So we always wanted to meet the customer we were at. So from the very beginning, we were an on the channel brand. We worked with wholesalers and stores. We worked with D2C. We worked on Amazon. We worked even with bigger partners like REI. And for us, that was always the intention. Like, how do you appear where the customer wants to appear?

17:00So every year, I would say from a distribution perspective, that's what we think about. We always try to think through where would the customer like to find us or where is the customer already shopping? So we're less maybe channel loyal. And we try to be, again, kind of customer oriented on where they want our products to appear at the end of the day. Yeah. And I think that makes a lot of sense, right? Because a lot of the times you might not think to turn online for shopping for Helmet. A lot of people are still tactile. They want to experience it. And I feel like that plays into the accessibility as well, like meeting the customers where they are.

17:38Taking it back a little bit to the early days where you're trying to get the word out for a thousand, how did you go about actually getting the first sale outside of friends and family? Yeah, it's a good question. I'd say in the beginning, focusing on own channels was really important. So on the digital side, we focused on PR probably was the biggest thing. And we focused on building up an email list. We actually never really entered into paid media for a few years at Thousand. And again, wholesale was really important to us. Wholesale and our wholesale partners were really important to us. So for us getting into the best retailers across the nation, we wanted to have really good brand presence and we understood people were going to discover us there.

18:19And overall, we thought more than anything, it's going to be a symbiotic relationship. We're going to drive eyeballs from the digital side through press and our email list and all of these other channels. And at the same time, wholesale is going to drive some traffic to the digital side because people will see our products for the first time. So for us, we saw it as just a symbiotic relationship more than anything. But I think that's what helped us grow in the beginning. Again, we were never channel loyal. We really more have always thought from a perspective of like, we're from a journey perspective to customers find this and how can thousand appear there.

18:53So, you know, for retailers, we always try to pick really discovery oriented retailers. For our digital channel, we always try to appear places that were, you know, sometimes bike adjacent. So we appeared in outdoor channels and design channels and some traditional bike. But at the end of the day, it was always about like, how do you have the customer discover thousand in a new and interesting way? And I think you went with a very hands-on grassroots approach to literally going door-to-door with products. Why was that approach so important in the early days? I think it's a couple of things. I think it's like, as a business owner, I think learning about your customer is really important.

19:32I mean, in the beginning, we went to a lot of local bike events. Like I would say for the first three years, I did all of the clinicking myself. I talked to customers. I haven't touched the field of product and I get feedback. I'd go out to all of our stores too that we brought on and bring them coffee and gave them like product education in the morning. I would say I also went out and brought on our first retailers. So, you know, I would just go to stores that I liked and just talk to buyers. I think as a business owner, one, it helps you understand direct customer feedback when you're going to consumer facing events, but also you get a good experience to understand what wholesale customers are looking for too.

20:11And that helped us build the business because that helped shape our products. That's helped shape our programs that we were offering, all of those different things. So rather than outsourcing anything, at the beginning, I always did it myself because for me, it was trying to learn how to build the fundamentals. I imagine the pitching process or talking to someone at a local coffee shop to get them to carry your helmet might be very different than talking to a buyer at REI. how do you transition those very natural one-on-one small boutique conversations and turn that into a pitch to a buyer that is at a national retailer?

20:49If I'm honest, I will say it's not super different in the sense that like, I'm not a natural salesperson. I don't like find, like when I thought of a salesperson, that really wasn't me at the beginning. And I was nervous about it. But the thing I really started shifting my mentality to is if I really believe I'm doing such a service to my customers and these retailers at the end of the day, if I think I'm doing a service to these retailers because my product is needed and they'll find a new customer, then I'm not selling, I'm not doing anything weird or salesy. At the end of the day, I'm trying to help someone.

21:20I'm helping them understand why this product is valuable. So for me, it was the same among the REIs of the world or like a coffee shop. It was going in and And trying to create a relationship to start was the biggest thing. Like it was to try to understand a person's needs. You know, it was asking a lot of questions like, what do you need in your assortment? What sells really well for you? And it's naturally finding, again, what that person needs and how you can help fill that need. So I would say like the REIs of the world, they want probably something a little more data-driven and, you know, why you're going to succeed and what this customer is and how you're different.

22:00But the mom and pop shops of the world, they probably want to understand how you can bring them a new customer. At the end of the day, the approach is the same, though. It's really understanding what the other person needs and how do you fill that need. For me, that's fundamentally what I learned sales was about. It wasn't about cold pitching and knocking on doors that's super awkward. It's trying to figure out how you can solve a person's problems. And that's a much easier way to think about it. And for me, it's more effective, too. Yeah. Yeah. And I imagine being in REI or local boutiques, they also give you a lot of feedback or they can tell you what their customers prefer.

22:39Has there been learnings from those retail partnerships that I've changed the business as well? Yeah, definitely. So I would say in terms of introducing new products or even modifications on our current products, it's been listening to feedback. I would say we always are listening to feedback ongoing, but we also have like an orchestrated attempt once or twice a year to get all feedback from major partners and distributors and customers. And we use that feedback every single year and we update products or we roll out with new products on it. So for me, it's a continuous loop. I think part of the journey of entrepreneurship and building a brand or a business is to not forget where you started.

23:18And for us, that's really customer centric while being able to scale the business. in a way that's meaningful through data and process and all that stuff. So at the end of the day, it's just finding a balance, but without losing kind of where you started from. Yeah. And definitely there's been expansion into new product categories. Aside from customer feedback, what else do you think about when you're thinking about new product categories to enter into? Yeah, I think for us, what we started to realize was the vision of thousands started to expand at one point. We started in bike helmets, because that's where we found a natural need.

23:52But then when we learned more about our customer, we learned that our customer, lots of them were first-time riders, lots of first-time riders with e-bikes, e-boards, e-skateboards. So, you know, e-bikes, like things we never really thought of before, that's what they were riding. And when we talked to these customers, we realized when they first started, they were looking for like a kit. They wanted something that potentially could dress them head to toe. You know, they needed a bag, they needed a light, they needed lots of things. So that's really what Thousands' Vision started to shift into, could Thousand become what we call a tools for urban travelers brand?